Gamezone: Is Excessive Realism Killing Gameplay?

Dave Snell is currently annoyed with a big trend in gaming at the moment - the gradual death of fun in videogames due to improved realism. Before the flamers warm up the fires of vitriol let him clarify; games are fun, just not anywhere near as much as they used to be. Dave picked up the excellent Saints Row 2 the other day, and discovered two things: firstly, it is a far better game (in the purest sense) than Grand Theft Auto IV, and secondly, it recalls the reasons why he plays: out-and-out fun.

[Gradient]

It definitely had a negative impact on GTA4, that game just lacked fun.

[smittyjerkins]

I agree completely. GTA4 is simply not as varied nor fun as San Andreas or Saints Row 2 (the example the author uses) because it limits itself to "realism".

[Bathyj]

It wasn't the realism that ruined GTA for me. It was the constant FKN phone calls, then you had to go bowling with someone or he wouldnt bring you guns anymore. Talk about needy.

I just got sick of the cattering to everyone side of it. I felt I was running all over town for them and not playing enough.

Also Lazlo wasnt as funny as he used to be.

[EvilBlackCat]

Well lets wait for RED DEAD REDEMPTION to find out but i am really happy with Operation Flashpoint Dragon Rising and ARMA 2.

HEY its all about taste.

FOR ME the most important aspect of a game is the game play and if the game play is closer to reality the better.

----------------------------- ----
@ mikeslemonade @ 1.5

"All the more realistic games generally score higher like Uncharted 2, COD 4, MW2"

UC2 & COD MW realistic? REALLY? NO SERIOUSLY?

TRY ARMA 2 i bet its going to be too much for you.

BY THE WAY that is not true for example

ACE COMBAT 6 a great game, GREAT GRAPHICS & a good Story.
When people here compared this game to OVER G Fighters everybody or to be precise like the 99.9% of gamers and loyalist here said that ACE COMBAT is better than OVER G because it was more realistic.

LOL! yeah right!

Graphically ACE 6 destroy OVER G but in simulation? OVER G RAPE ACE 6 PERIOD. I only played ACE COMBAT 6 campaing like 2 times and the online multiplayer around 8-11 times but over g Multiplayer? 2 fncking years pal.

So what is the most important aspect in a video game?

A GAME DONT NEEDS TO BE REALISTIC TO BE A FUN GAME but when you play a game like Racing, Shootings and Air Combats the more realistic the better.

[blitz0623]

I think it actually adds even more fun to the gameplay. Of course, there are games that were actually focused more on the graphics hence the gameplay got bottled down *cough* FFXIII *cough*

[mikeslemonade]

How the hell was GTA4 realistic? Graphically it was not realistic and physics were not realistic. Trust me, if GTA4 was too realistic the game would truly be a 10/10. Saints Row just has worst graphics so I guess that makes it more unrealistic?

It's better to have too much realism than too little realism.

All the more realistic games generally score higher like Uncharted 2, COD 4, MW2

[presto717]

Now everything is just real, with real physics and real everything. In some ways that sucks....

[Tony P]

Realism is so badly defined in gaming terms. I'm going to guess they mean games that focus on visuals because that's all he's talking about.

And I still disagree with a lot of points.

Realism does not equate to "devoid of inspiration" just because there isn't an overwhelming presence of wacky anthropomorphic animals running around.

You could say the visuals for Mass Effect are realistic. And yet the game is not sorely limited by that aspect of design. In fact it is a highly fantastical space tale and I'm sure the artists had great fun designing aliens, ships, and tech.

It also doesn't mean the game isn't as fun. I play almost nothing but so-called "realistic" games. I definitely don't play them for graphics. I play them because they're enjoyable games. I'll have as much fun with Metal Gear Solid 4 as I will with Scribblenauts.

[bnaked]

Killzone 2 is still the best Ego-Shooter this gen imo. Thanks to the realism!

And GTA4 has just a boring singleplayer! I think the multiplayer was fun as hell. Mostly free mode!

[Blaze929]

That's why I liked Saints Row 2 so much - didn't go the 'real' route like GTA did and ruin the experience.

[sid4gamerfreak]

I feel that excessive realism is kind of killing gameplay and a perfect example is gta 4. I still play saints row 2 ove gta 4 because you can do so many more wacky stufff which you can't do in gta. Sometimes, realism is not what we consumers want or need, developers need to realize that.

[DrRobotnik]

Yes

[n4f]

ive play it its boring and its always end sad

[maniacf40]

.

[Elwenil]

Where I differ is when dealing with shooters. The complete lack of realism in most shooters is killing that particular genre for me. Sure, they look realistic but the gameplay leaves a lot to be desired and all because making them easier to play opens the game up to a larger player base and more sales. In other words, because a lot of the players can't handle realism, we are all forced to play with "Lincoln Logs" when what we really want is an Erector set. ;D Just my .02

[Bathyj]

Excessive whinning maybe. But not excessive realism.

[Godmars290]

Devs like Square who can't make towns, or gamers who have been b!tching about more realism?

[Sagetech]

San Andreas owned GTA4 hands down.PS3 and 360 fans may have their differences but we all have to agree on at least one thing...lets make it this.

[anonymouse111335]

I feel things having to be excessively realistic is bad, there should be a balance beetween the two, I remember back in the PS2 era when a game had silly stuff you played with it and made jokes with friends about it, even on the internet, however now if it doesn't apply to the best physics possible it gets treated as trash. I personally feel if it was more wacky as it could be back in the day (not excessively, but it could be made with cheats like big head mode show wireframes etc) it may help anti-video game people since as we all know, video games are serious business turning people into killing machines /sarcasm

[barakiu]

a first person shooter where it takes a single well place bullet to kill a character, and then they are dead for good.

[ryano23277]

Have you played Operation Flashpoint Dragon Rising?

That has one shot kills - Great Game.
Hardcore mode in BFBC2 opnline has a one hit kill (I believe)

[Godmars290]

I've had issues with "next gen" gaming when I learned that sprite animation was falling out of fashion.

Which is to say its too expensive/work to make them HD.

[PrimordialSoupBase]

If we're talking open world games, it depends on the setting and how well it's realised.

GTA IV doesn't suffer from a lack of wackiness. It suffers from trying to be real and not following through; it sits in an uncanny valley of realism. Think about how much fun it is to mess around with the AI when someone is being randomly chased by a cop. If it made random AI interactions and emergent events its central focus, no one would have complained because it would have been an ever-changing, always interesting game.

Look at Red Dead Redemption. Is anyone crying because you won't be able to jetpack around the West? No. Because it's set to get that dynamism and realism right with its wildlife and emergent events -- or so we are to believe from the videos.

[ivant]

There should be just these two styles.

There are games where realism is needed and others where it isn't.

I would have loved more realism with GT5:Prologue, BF:BC2 and KZ2, and happy with the arcade style of play for Warhawk and Halo3.

[T9X69]

lol @mikeslemonade COD a realistic game? Please, whats realistic about knifing someone 20 feet away? Uncharted is no where near realistic, you need a reality check kid.

[BannedForNineYears]

"the quality of the tire treads or bullet physics, as in reality, these don't actually add anything to gameplay."
Over-said.
If you go around a corner, shoot a guy in the face and see his eye get pushed through his head and out the back of his head and stab into the wall behind him, do you think that would add anything to the gameplay?
Of if you are stabbing zombies with a Katana and a zombie's intestines flop on the ground while you step in it, don't you think that would add to the gameplay?
Maybe I'm wrong, I dunno. =\

[itsralf]

The ESRB would never let that fly.

[tomford16]

The ESRB can't ban games. They can give it a AO rating but thats about it. So those of us over 18 can enjoy watching a man get his eyeball stabbed out or stepping on a zombies exposed intestine.

[itsralf]

Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft all refuse to publish A-O games on their consoles. And I'm a console gamer... So I guess I'll have to miss out on the joy of such detailed gore.

[nycredude]

Gow 3 just released and that game is as AO as you will get this gen.

[xc7x]

so not true,games are way less realistic than ever except for physics / animations,that's only because the tech has got better but not necessarily the games themselves. when games are balanced out and make things politically correct,that's not being realistic,when we force things to be fun,it doesn't make them more fun also. we have too much silly stuff as it is and very little realism,because the so called realism in games is not very real. if it was more real,it'd be fun. i think this writer has realism mixed up with just bad game development or types of games he just doesn't like.

[Dsnyder]

They saved all the good stuff for DLC so it seemed incomplete but add the two packs and GTA IV offers much more than SA did. Saints row on the other hand was terrible. Just a 13 year old wiggers dream of being "gansta" with bad graphics and even worse car physics. Did nothing for the sandbox genre but prove that all people want to do is copy GTA. GTA IV set the mark for what future GTA games will be. Think about how far GTA SA was from 3. Thats how GTA will be 2 games from now.

[gaminoz]

I have no problem with realism with regards to game environments, but a BIG YES that games are less and less fun with the realism focus in gameplay, story, and characters, especially in shooters and action titles. The excess gory violence and seriousness etc. doesn't make a game more fun but less so.

By all means up the graphics but give us some Timesplitters-like humour and fun!!!

[rezzah]

Realism should be implecating into games though developers must find ways to keep it fun. Like 1.2 said, its annoying with having to deal with taking people out to bowling. To repeat certain things too many times makes the game a bit more dull. However, unlike most or some I enjoyed GTA4 for its realism. Vehicle controls were amazing. Thing is to me San Adreas was too realistic. Driving bikes, motorcycles, cars...just to become a better driver? Each thing had its own bar. Eat too much get fat, which is pretty funny and cool at first until you realise you only walk and cant even jump.and a lack of food reduced muscles. small things like that is annoying after awhile.

[iliimaster]

i dont know if ur just talking about those games....but... uhmmmm

two of the best looking games ever uncharted 2 and god of war 3 are simply fun...fun...and what the FHHHHHHHHHH are you serious !! momments that happen in these games.... dont get me wrong here... double dragon..... mario... and old school zelda and FF's are amazing fun games...but now im playing games that look crazy good and the gameplay is even better

[HBK619]

The guy raises a good question, but I think he does miss the point of gaming to an extent as well.

For one, games are always meant to be fun, what is 'fun' though to you or me can be VASTLY different things.

But the debate of fun isn't really what's at question here.

It's more about what gaming is meant for. Gaming is meant to take you to another world and immerse you in something that you just can't realistically do in real life (without sending yourself to an early grave).

Sometimes that means you will have a realistic, gritty shooter like a Killzone 2 or COD. Or a completely off the wall game like Saints Row 2. It's not about one being more fun than the other, because at the end of the day you can find great fun in both styles.

Realism does hurt certain games, no doubt and GTA IV was definitely poorer due to going down that path and really breaking out from the awesomely fun mould that 3, Vice City and San Andreas brought us. It would seem that they managed to find themselves a bit through the DLC, which does show that you can have a fairly realistic game in many facet's but still bring a lot of fun elements to the game.

"truly excellent games should be able to thrive regardless of the quality of the tire treads or bullet physics, as in reality, these don't actually add anything to gameplay."

I definitely believe that, but really too. Realistic bullet physics, having great looking this and that, it can all definitely add to gameplay. It can do so in ways that are so subtle that you might not actually be realising it, but it adds that extra bit of immersion to the subject matter.

In my opinion adding a few more "realistic" things to Saints Row 2 like being able to turn in a circle and not have cars pop-in constantly would be extremely good and just make for something that I can believe a little more.

Is realism killing gameplay? For me, the answer is no. It may not always be your cup of tea, but if a developer is choosing the realism route then I have to think that they have the best in mind for their game and their own idea on what is fun. Whether that works properly or as more fun as something that is just ridiculous in it's gameplay is certainly up for debate.

I can certainly appreciate a game that is totally off the wall crazy, but in the same vein I can also respect a game for bringing realism to immersive states that I feel in a real life battlefield without having to ever go to a hospital to heal my wounds.

[hazelamy]

i've played through saints row 2 at 3 times so far, and gtaiv once.
simply because saints row was more fun, less realistic but more fun.
i just can't wait to play saints row 3.

[dillydadally]

Man, this has needed to be said for a long time. I think realism should only be present in a game to the extent that it doesn't interfere with the gameplay. Gameplay needs to be first and foremost, which unfortunately too many companies focus so much on graphics and physics they forget to focus on the core gameplay and controls. A great example is reloading in a FPS. Ever notice how unrealistic it is that you can reload at anytime with a half full clip and somehow your bullets are magically combined in your clip? You could make this more realistic but it could potentially ruin the pacing of the game. I think presentation in general is only interesting for the first 5 minutes (unless it aids in telling the story) and after that it's only about gameplay. An example of that is I enjoy the old 8bit RPG's more because battles just take so long in modern RPG's because of all the animation - it draws the fun out and becomes repetive watching the animation (I'm looking at you FF8 and your summons!).

[Caspel]

I enjoy the new "retro games" such as Mega Man 10, over the newer stuff to be honest.

[Caspel]

I'll take Saints Row 3 over GTA 5 anyday

[eddienoteddy]

For me, gameplay has always trumped visuals. I mean, look at the entire collection of Wii games.

[mistermostyn]

For starters, there's no such thing as 'excessive' realism, there's only evolving technology that increases levels of realism as a result of improving game engines and more processing power.

To answer the article's question: No, excessive realism doesn't kill gameplay, bad game design kills gameplay. Simple. End of.

[athmaus]

i think there has benea lot of violence lately in video games, but not just that but in everything...such as movies, tv, and more...

[barefootgamer]

imho, like most things in life, realism in games is probably best in moderation. :)

[kimvidard]

Realism does not need to be a hindrance to gameplay. GTA 4 is great and is so engrossing mainly because it was more realistic. Saint rows 2 is cool but I did not like playing it, it was too goofy.
Just Cause 2 is great because it is ridiculous, but it his not so centered around Urban culture, which is too familiar for me to like as a parody.
Realism does not hurt gameplay, sometimes the setting is just not that appropriate, or the game just does not clic.