330°

720p? 1080p? ESRAM? Why it matters and why it doesn’t

Gaming Trend Editor Ron Burke writes an in-depth piece on resolutions, their differences, the math behind them, and how all of it comes together to mean almost nothing.

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gamingtrend.com
user74029313823d ago

all you need to know

1080p> 720p

120 hz > 60hz

ps4 > one

Fanboyssuck273823d ago (Edited 3823d ago )

Correction.

Wii u > ps4 > xbone

CGI-Quality3823d ago

Unless you're talking personal game experience, the technology in a WiiU is NOT greater than the PS4.

LOL_WUT3823d ago

Even the X1 has more appealing next-gen titles than the WiiU! And yes resolution, specs all matter if it didn't devs wouldn't pass up on Nintendo. ;)

u got owned3823d ago (Edited 3823d ago )

@Fanboyssuck27

Oh boy, you will be at one bubble in no time if you keep that up.

ziggurcat3823d ago

"Wii u > ps4..."

http://25.media.tumblr.com/...

nice try, but that's beyond delusional.

triforce793823d ago (Edited 3823d ago )

Mariokart8,X,ProjectCARS,and titanfall have the best nextgen textures ive seen so far...

Dehnus3823d ago

Sir, you get a bubble for being so truthful. Everybody knows this fact yet they keep denying it. The facts look them straight in the face! Why do these fanboys keep denying it.

Why, we can already play games on it, while they can only compare spec sheets. SO by definition it is better ;).

In 2 weeks that might change a bit though ;).

UltimateMaster3823d ago

@Fanboyssuck27
You're a brave one.
Here's you Mario kitty VS COD Dog.
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Magicite3823d ago

you need to check your head, mate

LaserEyeKitty3823d ago

LOL at all the morons who just got trolled. You figure the name would give it away.

But, if you can't beat'em - PC Specs trump all.

user55757083822d ago

it doesnt matter because once youre focused on gameplay graphics tend of become an afterthough

however it does matter because before you play the game you want to know you're buying the best possible experience. so it def matters for sales. why pay $100 more for a technologically inferior product that outputs inferior resolution. on paper it doesn't make sense

+ Show (9) more repliesLast reply 3822d ago
0ut1awed3823d ago (Edited 3823d ago )

I really doubt 120hz is going to matter for a PS4 other than maybe smoothing it out a little bit. 60fps seems to be the sweet spot for the system so you really don't need anything over 60hz.

Also FYI pretty much every TV that is "120hz" or "240hz" is actually not true. For all intensive purposes it is basically "upscaled" so to speak. None of those TVs actually allow for more than a 60fps input.

You need a computer monitor with a display port or DVI-D input to actually get anything over 60fps.

Sci0n3823d ago

This is true, as I was tv shopping I was really considering getting a tv with like 240hz for gaming mainly. I spoke with a best buy TV sales person and told him why I was searching for a 240hz tv and he kindly said are you going to be gaming from a pc rig or a console? and when I told him a console he said well I don't think any console games are rendering over 60fps so you really don't need a insane amount of hz at the moment 60hz is enough. I am now waiting for 4k TVs before I upgrade.

0ut1awed3823d ago (Edited 3823d ago )

I guess it's his job but if you would have said PC gaming I know for a fact he would have tried to sell you one of those 120hz/240hz TVs (otherwise he wouldn't have even asked that question). Kind of messed up because as I already stated those TVs don't actually support higher FPS inputs. HDMI just doesn't have enough throughput to support it.

Knal3823d ago

@Outlawed...

The latest versions of the HDMI standard does not allow through put for more than 60fps? You have proof of this? Could you support that with some links?

mabreu3823d ago

@ 0ut1awed

according to Wikipedia, hdmi can output 1080p @ 120hz after version 1.4b which was released back in October 2011.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

However, I'm not sure if the PS4 or Xbox1 can support it. I assume they can but don't see any evidence on the web.

CrusRuss3822d ago

You guys are confusing TV refresh rate (hz) with fps. If you read the article it explains the difference.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 3822d ago
Visiblemarc3823d ago

It really is basically that simple. I'm tired of how the articles about how "resolutiongate" being "overblown" have become more exhausting than the relevant genre that are articles about "resolutiongate" (those that compare price/performance)

If you don't like price/performance articles, take your ignorant opinions and go find a hobby that caters to morons.

BlueShirt77493823d ago

With a name like that you need to get over yourself and get out more. Do you work for Sony? No? Then those figures are certainly not "all you need to know."

Simple mind....

WorldGamer3823d ago

You didn't really provide any evidence. You basically personally attacked him, then trailed off.

I think what he says is correct, and many other reputable forums also agree. I don't see why would would get so upset.

BOLO3822d ago

No one needs to work for Sony or Microsoft to know the facts...PS4 is a more technically capable console compared to Xbox One and Wii U. Try again.

bornsinner3823d ago

xbox one has dedicated servers a better online experience and better games, ps4 has killzone & losers who count pixels all day

GW2123823d ago

* better launch games.

* PS4 has Killzone, better graphics, better hardware, and losers who count pixels all day because they are actually there.

AngelicIceDiamond3823d ago

"720p? 1080p? ESRAM? Why it matters and why it doesn’t"

It matters now. But when everything gets fixed, we'll move on to the next thing and forget about it.

Biggest3823d ago

Fixed? Do you mean the next generation of consoles?

MRMagoo1233823d ago

If you know anything about tech you will know the xbone is only going to get worse as much needs to be put on the ESram in the future to keep up with the PS4, the lower gpu and the ESram will make it impossible in a couple years, gpgpu will be the xbone downfall.

AngelicIceDiamond3822d ago

@Magoo

Yeah that's not even close to being right.

linkenski3823d ago

720p @60fps > 1080p @30fps, though

H0RSE3823d ago (Edited 3823d ago )

I agree. I'll take 60fps and lower resolution over the opposite. Hell, in competitive PC gaming, it's pretty common (or at least was) for players to disable a lot of visual features, to obtain the best framerates possible. When I played competitively, that is what is what I did. It was also used to gain advantages, like disabling lightning do eliminate dark spots/shadows for players to hide in.

Mitchblue3823d ago (Edited 3823d ago )

@linkenski: Not a fair assessment. You cut the FPS in half with your illustration but don't double the resolution.

Fairer would be 720p @60fps vs 1080p @45fps.

H0RSE3823d ago (Edited 3823d ago )

The assessment is completely fair, since it's using standard measurements for comparison. Resolution has known increments - 360, 480, 720, 1080, etc. Framerates also follow a similar philosophy. 24fps for film, 30 or 60fps for games, and then you can unlock the framerate (like PC) and obtain whatever your system can handle. Although devs can aim for virtual any framerate they desire, 30 and/or 60 tends to be the "sweet spot."

So it isn't about actually halving everything equally, but rather comparing the different increments. That being said, I would still prefer 720p/60fps over 1080p/45fps.

GentlemenRUs3823d ago (Edited 3823d ago )

Killzone runs at 1080p@60fps
So does Knack? I forgot.
Resogun does.
New'n'Tasty does.

Your statement is invalid.

1080p@60fps > 720p@15fps

mabreu3823d ago (Edited 3823d ago )

@ linkenski
I agree that frame rate is more important than resolution. It helps with response times when playing competitive games while making the animation run smooth.

However, this is relative to what type of game you're playing. 30fps is acceptable and suitable for games that don't have fast moving images and don't require fast response times. Also, less frame rates gives more graphical power to render other visuals like textures and lighting effects.

When I play Bioshock on my PC, I always favored more fps. When I played Civilization 5, I put the graphic setting on high and don't mind sacrificing frame rates.

MRMagoo1233823d ago

shame xbone isnt getting 720p @60fps tho huh , its barely getting 720 @30fps and even then that dips on DR3, and even on COD ghosts its 720p with frame drops.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 3823d ago
sovietsoldier3823d ago

how did i know the first comment would mention a ps4 and at the same time slam xbox one.

fonger083823d ago

Yeah unless you have a blind pro-Sony comment, don't bother.

True_Samurai3823d ago

Hahah no thanks
I'll take that x1

oof463823d ago

Your own preference > Anyone else's opinion

+ Show (12) more repliesLast reply 3822d ago
mewhy323823d ago

Wow. more spin. It does matter, it does matter. I wonder if the spinners think that if they said that it doesn't matter enough time that people will start believing it?

Knightshade3823d ago

It matters if you want to choose the right platform that meets your setup, but it matters little in terms of overall image quality. It's not spin. There is plenty of math and knowledge in the article to back it up.

oof463823d ago

Apparently, a lot of people disagree with math and knowledge. :)

buckley3823d ago

Spin? Did you read the article?

lnvisibleMan3823d ago

Of course it does. Unless your gaming on a tiny screen smaller than an Ipad.

SpinalRemains1383823d ago

It matters. A new generation, you want a new standard. You pay 500 bucks for a new machine, you would want it to run contemporary settings. Why is this just not understood by some?

mightyhokie3823d ago

I'm getting the x1 but I agree. We should expect a lot better graphics and all that stuff for our money. I'm willing to let them work out the kinks. In a year you won't be able to tell the difference between x1 and ps4 visually. look at oblivion vs skyrim. and the ps3 had some major issues at launch. not to mention the 'far more powerful ps3 will give you much better graphics' that didn't come true. both systems are going to be awesome. but just like the issue with frame rate drop on the ps4 at 1080p...those issues will be done rather quickly as game developers get more used to the hardware.

But I do agree that when I spend that $500 i am expecting better looking stuff moving faster and offering more.

MrCastle3823d ago

@Hokie
I am getting an XB1 on launch day as well, and I've decided to reserve judgement until these games actually come out. Everyone has their opinion of what looks good. A number is just a number to me. If it looks as good as it plays, its a winner.

RegorL3823d ago

I wouldn't bet on XBox One ever catching up, but you do - good luck to you!

A. PS3 had a more difficult architecture
B. worse GPU
C. better CPU+SPU.
The difficult architecture made initial games worse.
The SPU let it catch up.
But XBox 360s better GPU kept the playing field equal.

A. XBox One has a more difficult architecture
B. worse GPU
C. most likely worse CPU+GPGPU than PS4.
The architecture should not be that cumbersome as it resembles XBox 360s a lot - how to utilize that is known. But the eSRAM is only slightly faster than the PS4 RDRAM. Even with perfect (100%) utilization of it XBox ones memory bandwidth will only be slightly better than PS4, the likeliness of perfect utilization will decrease with bigger graphical environments...

XBox One has a cool camera, if game developers really find ways to use that it could sell systems, like the Wii motes sold Wiis.

WeedyOne3823d ago

"not to mention the 'far more powerful ps3 will give you much better graphics' that didn't come true"

This statement is only true for multiplatform games. Ps3 exclusives had WAY better graphics than anything on the 360. Killzone, God of War, and The Last of Us say hi!

The cell was completely different than anything any developer had ever worked on, so I understand the learning curve with that. But the XB1 and PS4 both use x86 which has been used for decades. You wouldn't think that would have the same steep learning curve.

Prime1573822d ago (Edited 3822d ago )

@Hokie: "I'm willing to let them work out the kinks. In a year you won't be able to tell the difference between x1 and ps4 visually." /@

Look, you used oblivion vs skyrim, and I'm laughing because bethesda never figured out the ps3. I'm not defending the ps3, but I think that was a lot different than ESRam is to Cell. However, I'm going to quote the article in mention to help explain my skepticism (I cut out a lot so it's not a lengthy read as I assume you already read it or can find it).

"Sony put 8GB of GDDR5... 176GB/s of memory bandwidth ... Microsoft went a different direction, putting 8GB of DDR3 memory that hits a bandwidth of 68.3 GB/s, but also features a memory subsystem of 32 MB of ESRAM... at a theoretical speed of 192 GB/s. "

The way I see it is that the GDDR5 @ 176 is easy to use. The DDR3 RAM @ 68 is easy to use. That being said, Devs have find a way to CRAM 124 GB/s (the difference) throughput through a TINY 32mb of ESRam.

OK, so, I'm just disagreeing that we'll see the differences that soon - ESPECIALLY IN MULTIPLAT which are usually the same. I'm highly skeptical of if we will see that by the time the next next gen comes out (PS5 vs XBOXall(?))...

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 3822d ago
halfblackcanadian3823d ago

PS3 ran some early games sub-HD as well...look how it turned out for them.

Resolution, in the end, is one aspect. There is a lot more that this next gen is expected to (and will) do that the current/last cannot achieve. Yeas, PS4 will always have the edge in raw computational power but people are seriously taking this as Xbox One cannot produce 1080p (which, beyond being proven wrong by launch titles, is ludicrous considering that last gen machines can do it and these are exponentially more powerful)

Argue that one machine is more powerful than the other, that's fine, but to assume that one is last gen (when they share so much of the same DNA to boot) is being ignorant.

aquamala3823d ago (Edited 3823d ago )

did you think only early PS3 games are sub-HD? all COD games on PS3 are sub-HD (960x540, 880x720),

Saints Row 4 is sub-HD (960x720), Splinter Cell Blacklist is sub-HD (1152x648), both games came out just couple of months ago.

Prime1573822d ago

What is sub-HD to you? A good guide is 720p, but some might argue that 480p was the start of HD. If it's 720p, then a lot of ps3 AND 360 games were sub-HD. If it's 480p then a lot of 360 AND PS3 games were sub-HD. Do you see what I did there?

Current (soon to be last gen) games had a very similar native resolution than the new Gen. Here's a quick find of early launch games: http://www.rage3d.com/board...

Keep in mind that as resolutions get higher and higher (See also: 4k tvs are out) the more we'll notice the difference. The fact that we're entering this generation with such differences (104 million is and will always be better than 46 million) as this article quotes, makes me wonder if that ESRam can really boost it to 2.26x of what the XBone is now...

H0RSE3823d ago (Edited 3823d ago )

@SpinalRemains138

It is understood by more than you think, it just isn't emphasized because it isn't as big a deal as many claim. So many people are focusing on resolution, that even something as substantial as framerates seems to take a backseat.

The new consoles are offering a enough new features, that without even getting into resolution, they justify their price tag. Battlefield will have 564 player support, and be running at 60fps. Many if not all MP games will utilizing dedicated servers, many games will be able to interact with other devices, such as phones, tablets and PC's. Cloud computing is being utilized for things such as AI processing and real-time stats, to a degree never achieved on consoles, with more potential to come. DVR features are being implemented, other PC-centric features, such as being able to play a game while it's downloading, are being introduced.

Real-time snapping between multiple apps, TV integration, an HDMI-input that can be used with virtually any device witha HDMI-out port, including a 360 and even a PS4. A completely redesigned Kinect, built from the ground up to act as an extension to the X1, rather than an optional peripheral released years after the launch of the console, which was the case with Kinect 1.0.

With all these new features and ideas taking place, my $500 spent on an X1, is more than justified, even if every game I ever play is only 720p.

miklo843823d ago

Good read. Best part, "Your conclusion should be this – buy the games you want to play and stop worrying so much about the platform. The debate will rage on, but in the end it is and will always be about gameplay. Both systems will have their ups and downs, Microsoft and Sony fans will lash out at one another, Nintendo will do their own thing, and the PC crowd will lord their 4K resolution over the top of all of them."

davidrobots3823d ago

Yep. In time I'm sure we'll see more and more games hitting that magical 1080p/60fps mark, and this will all be a moot point anyway.

cyguration3823d ago

Except when one system hits that "magical mark" and one doesn't, will it still be a moot point?

Show all comments (120)
250°

Microsoft’s Surface and Xbox hardware revenues take a big hit in Q3

Microsoft just posted the third quarter of its 2024 fiscal financial results. The software maker made $61.9 billion in revenue and a net income of $21.9 billion during Q3. Revenue is up 17 percent, and net income has increased by 20 percent.

Read Full Story >>
theverge.com
darthv7222h ago

Xbox content + services up 62% while hardware down 31%... seems about right with the way they tout you don't need the hardware to play. People can play on their phones or smart tv or other means. I don't hardly play on my consoles directly since getting devices like the logitech g-cloud and ps portal. Which is to also say I have been playing more digital than physical because of these devices.

solideagle9h ago

you should apply in MS PR team buddy, I think you will do a great job in my humble opinion :)

Sonic18816h ago

I thought darthv72 and Obscure_Observer already work for Microsoft 🤔

dveio6h ago

MS: "Xbox services and content without AB up 1%, with AB up 62%. Hardware down 31%. In total a loss of 350 mill."

darthv72: "Seems about right."

MS: "Excuse m ..."

darthv72: "I don't hardly play on my consoles directly."

MS:

Lightning771h ago

What he said was facts. How he plays games is no concern of you. Don't get too mad about it.

Cacabunga8h ago

I can tell people like you are an absolute minority..

If service is up means their fans and fanboys accepted this model and subscribed to it. The near future you will see a big decline because the service is saturated.

shinoff21837h ago

But that's been ms for years. When things aren't going their way they try to change the way things are said. For instance console sales are down, they stop telling how many sold instead telling us how many hours spent in halo or headshots. So it makes sense console sales down just say people are playing on more devices then previous. What they won't say is how many xbox players jumped ship to ps5.

Cacabunga6h ago

Hardware sales are so bad that Sony and Nintendo are blowing the sales off the water with their hardware.

If Xbox are losers, others aren’t..
Xbox already tried everything with Xbox live then subscriptions went down so much that they had to find something else. Their fans subscribed then reached saturation rather quickly.

Hardware and exclusive games is where it’s at! Keep gamers excited, announce decent software and people will support you

itsmebryan2h ago

@shin
Well keep it simple Sony 's operating income is down 26% and Microsoft's is up 32%. No MS spin there, just facts. 😉
Cheers

romulus231h ago

Odd that a company that touts you dont need the hardware to play is already touting another console in the works.

darthv721h ago

They are not reliant on the HW but still want to maintain a presence (no matter how small) is a good thing. It shows commitment to the craft. It reminds me of SNK and how they made games for their own hardware (Neo Geo) while also making them for others because they knew there was a market to do so. They knew they would sell more to others but also sell to their own niche fan base.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 1h ago
purple10111h ago

Xbox hardware revenue tanks to lowest point of Xbox Series generation

Profchaos10h ago

I'm not surprised surface is struggling they aren't relevant anymore

DOMination-36m ago

In the last two years they've started exiting the consumer market altogether. All of the newest Surface products are business models only. They can't seem to work out what they want to do with it.

XBManiac10h ago

Too expensive hardware when others offer the same or more for less? Good work, Green Team.

SimpleDad9h ago(Edited 9h ago)

"Despite some early successes for Xbox games on rival platforms, Xbox hardware is down by a massive 31 percent this quarter."
"Without Activision Blizzard, Microsoft’s overall gaming revenue would have actually declined this quarter."
"Xbox content and services would have only been up a single percent without Activision Blizzard..."
"It looks like next quarter is going to be a similar story for gaming at Microsoft, too."

That is crazy... so A/B/K is carrying the whole Xbox gaming.
Oh and Microsoft will be fine. Windows, Office and Cloud are growing with each pc purchase.

purple1019h ago

Activision: "we gonna need a bigger rucksack/backpack please"

Microsoft: "why's that"

Activision: "to carry yo' weak ass'

Profchaos9h ago(Edited 9h ago)

Top brass have also wanted to start seeing returns on the 100 billion they have put into various Xbox related moves so seeing more multiplatform games is highly likely especially from abk

It's basically saying that PlayStation is the reason Xbox is afloat right now thinks to Ps5 versions of COD

Kornholic7h ago

So basically PS and PC gamers' money is keeping Xbox on life support.

MrDead58m ago

The only growth MS will get out of the console industry is if it supports it's rivals platforms. Xbox is a pointless machine now. I can see them on a big push for live next, and they won't give up on trying to buy Steam.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 58m ago
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300°

Microsoft Seemingly Closes Bethesda France

As part of its plans to cut 1,900 jobs, Microsoft has reportedly shut down operations at Bethesda France, letting go roughly 15 people

Read Full Story >>
insider-gaming.com
Hereandthere1d 18h ago

Microsoft should have left them stay 3rd party

GamerRN1d 16h ago

If they are let go, they can be whatever they want. They ARE 3rd party now... 🤦

Barlos1d 13h ago

Yeah, they're also jobless.

GamerRN1d 6h ago

They can form a company if they want, they are just as jobless as if "Microsoft had left them as 3rd party".

peppeaccardo1d 8h ago

"MIcrosoft leaves Bethesda do what they know how to do best" ... close! Oh the irony ....
(Citation from a week old article)

ChasterMies1d 4h ago

I think Microsoft and other game publishers are letting people go because they think ai will replace them. Doesn’t matter how much profit they make. They were always going to be let go.

PassNextquestion1d 18h ago (Edited 1d 18h ago )

Bethesda France was made up of roughly 15 people... they couldn't of being doing much

Bethesda France mainly did publishing and marketing within the region

blacktiger1d 16h ago

that's a shame for you to say that, i'm sure Elite loves hearing what you just said.

Mr Logic1d 2h ago

What a stupid thing to say. The elites give 0 fucks what we say on an obscure website in the comments section.

Crows901d 1h ago

You can always reach out and give them jobs at your company man. Don't wait

Profchaos1d 18h ago (Edited 1d 18h ago )

Bethesda France focused on publishing and marketing in the region. And 15 people lost their jobs as part of the closure.

I wonder if this is part of Microsoft's strategy to abandoned physical media or possibly gamepass advertising makes their roles redundant you don't need to market a game as hard when the majority of players get the game as part of a sub which already promoted upcoming games

Tacoboto1d 17h ago

It's France too, there's a high likelihood only 1-2 people on the team even had an Xbox.

Profchaos1d 17h ago

Possibly guven all the leaks we know the Xbox brand is really struggling in the region.

Yi-Long1d 14h ago

Well, if your consoles and games are barely found in any stores any more, of course you're gonna struggle finding consumers ...

XiNatsuDragnel1d 17h ago

Tbh Microsoft I think Bethesda being 3rd party same with Activision would probably more competitive than thus scenario imo

Profchaos1d 15h ago (Edited 1d 15h ago )

I think it would have been better for all parties really especially gamers

TheColbertinator1d 16h ago

The recently purchased Activision French offices might take over all the licensing and marketing for Microsoft in France from now on.

Show all comments (21)
80°

Nintendo's Massacre Of The 3DS And Wii U Is Finally Complete, Regrettably

Hanzala from eXputer: "The cruel hammer of Nintendo has fallen. Farewell, 3DS and Wii U, you surely brightened my life and many others; you won't be forgotten."