PS4 graphics "phenomenal", huge RAM makes innovation likely - Analyst

GC: "PS4's massive amount of available RAM is something that the industry has been cheering ever since its announcement."

[IaMs12]

Its great that they are going to be able to do a lot more now with next generation consoles but its also frustrating at the same time that the PC has had these capabilities for so long and are rarely utilized. Oh well, hopefully they will now with next gen.

[rl_pearson]

"the PC has had these capabilities for so long"

Feel free to show us these PCs with DDR5 memory for the entire system like the PS4 has.

The amount of RAM in the PS4 is no big deal. It is the standard roughly 16x increase that every Playstation has had:

PS1 2/3 megs
PS2 32 megs - 2 * 16
PS3 512 megs - 32 * 16
PS4 8 gigs - 512 * 16

The memory speed is the huge power/performance feature for the PS4 not the amount of RAM.

Memory speed is one of the major reasons why the PS3's graphics looked so far, far beyond anything the Xbox 360 put out this gen despite the fact that both systems had 512 megs of RAM to work with in games like Uncharted 1,2,3, Killzone 2,3, Gran Turismo 5, etc.

[stragomccloud]

Gddr 5 isn't as good for cpus a ddr 3. By the way, no such thing as ddr5 ram. Ddr 4 will be coming out on pc by 2014 by the way.

Please don't talk about specs if you're a console gamer, it makes you look bad.

Just enjoy the awesome games that come out and stop comparing..... Specs or otherwise.

[T900]

"Feel free to show us these PCs with DDR5 memory for the entire system like the PS4 has."

1. GDDR 5 RAM may offer high bandwidth, but comes with high Latency. CPUs dont work well with high latency and they cant really use such high bandwidth. Which is why PC has DDR 3 RAM for the CPU. It provides low latency and it provides enough bandwidth.

2. PC does have GDDR 5 RAM, since the last 4 years or so. Its the GPU that requires high bandwidth, Latency doenst matter to GPUs. Hence PC has GDDR 5 RAM that provides way more bandwidth than the one offered for the PS4, plus its dedicated ie not shared with the CPU. One can argue there are benefits to that too.

Hence PC gets best of both worlds, Low latency RAM for the CPU. Much higher bandwidth for the GPU.

How the PS4s CPU reacts to the high Latency of GDDR 5 is still anyones guess.

"The memory speed is the huge power/performance feature for the PS4 not the amount of RAM."

The memory speed is about equal to mid range GPUs of today and its going to be shared with the CPU, its not dedicated. Hence one may argue even midrange GPUs today get more bandwidth than what the PS4s GPU will be getting.

Edit: Just for your reference, high end desktop CPUs from Intel which cost about 300-1000usd dont seem to be able to take advantage of memory bandwidth beyond 20GB/s not in games anyways. One would have to question how far the PS4s low performance mobile CPU that is of no match to Intels desktop CPUs will take advantage of all that bandwidth, it just might end up suffering from the Latency.

[Feline_Pornographer]

> why the PS3's graphics looked so far, far beyond anything the Xbox 360

It really is amazing that something so obvious about console hardware performance, memory speed, is unable to be grasped by Microsoft.

Console engine programming is almost entirely based off of stream style processing where latency is of no consequence. Console engineers know how to build their engines in such a manner that the next data chunk is constantly being fetched while the current data chunk is being processed.

Disc->Harddrive->Main Memory->Cache

Everything being loaded asynchronously to the next stage of processing.

This is why PC game engineers like Carmack and others cry constantly about porting their old PC style engines to console hardware. They are use to just dumping everything into slow main memory once at level load time and work on the complete data set all at once. If their engine runs too slow then it is your problem and you need to go out and spend large amounts of money buying a faster PC to run their crap code.

[Zhipp]

PCs don't need GDDR5 ram for the entire system. It would actually be detrimental to system performance due to it's high latency. That's why you only use GDDR5 in the graphics card. Anything that the PS4 can do, a high end PC can do as well, which is why I really don't think we're gonna be seeing much difference between PS4 games and PC games next gen--even with it's magical 8gb-GDDR5. There's also the fact that, due to the PS4's architecture, PCs will most likely be the lead development platform going into next gen.

Also, you exaggerate the difference between PS3 graphics and 360. PS3 games look better, but not "far, far" better as you say.

[LessThan2Tflops]

It's not ddr5, gdd5 is just a modification of ddr3 that gives better bandwidth but worse lantency

[Feline_Pornographer]

"It's not ddr5, gdd5 is just a modification of ddr3 that gives better bandwidth but worse lantency"

LOL...

The 'g' just stands for 'graphics'...

Gotta love the 'PC gamers' trying to pretend to be graphics hardware experts.

"PCs don't need GDDR5 ram for the entire system. It would actually be detrimental to system performance due to it's high latency."

Yes, PC programmers do suck and, yes, their crappy code would not run well with the incredibly high performance PS4 ram. PC hardware is designed for the lowest common denominator - that is why PCs require such a huge amount of system memory, video memory, etc to compete with console engineers running higher quality engines on less expensive hardware.

[gamernova]

Dude, there is no DDR5 memory. Are you insane? If you mean GDDR then that is a different story. I dislike when know nothing console gamers (not all of you, some do understand) think that the ps4 is somehow a tech marvel with specs that have no been reached. We do not want shared GDDR5 memory. Why would we? PC gamers (well, speaking for myself) have a graphics card with GDDR5 memory just for gaming. We do not have to share with anything. That is called a dedicated graphics card. We even have additional RAM on the side of os and things like that. rl_pearson, you have to do some research. Do not talk about specs if you don't know what they mean.

Why would PC gamers want to have to share an entire system on a small amount of RAM?

We have things in our systems dedicated for each specific thing. This no only gives (well, the ones with nice set ups) an earth shattering lead in graphics and overall performance but it leaves the system open for future upgrades as we see fit.

I agree, it is a nice upgrade for console gamers and one that will benefit us all but do not talk about shared GDDR5 memory like it is actually a good thing.

[Cupid_Viper_3]

Every time you guys start harping on about specs, I'll just nicely repeat it over and over again.

OPTIMIZATION, OPTIMIZATION, OPTIMIZATION

1200 HP Corvette will not beat a 600 HP Formula 1 car on track. The F1 car is OPTIMIZED for circuit racing, The Corvette wasn't.

So please stop comparing console specs to PC Specs, it's just not the same. A PC with 512 MB RAM will not run Uncharted as it is on the PS3.

[reynod]

@Cupid_Viper_3

"OPTIMIZATION, OPTIMIZATION, OPTIMIZATION"

Thats all we hear console gamers say lol. If console optimization is so good then why is it current consoles get out performed by Low end PCs of today. PCs that might be costing 500usd.

Even back when PS3 was released a PC equipped with a 8800GTX outperformed it. Same is the case today. A 6 year old PC equipped with a 8800GTX will outperform a console even today. So where is the console optimization?

We have seen games like Skyrim, Battlefield 3, Farcry 3, Mafia 2 literally lag on consoles. Where was the optimization then?

Atleast on PC when something is wrong and the devs arent doing anything (such was the case with Skyrim PS3), the community patches the game itself or PC gamers do have the option to upgrade to better hardware so they can play the game, where as console gamers are left with no OPTIONS.

Just as today many of them are crying about not having BC for their machine, Its because console gamers lack OPTIONS, OPTIONS, OPTIONS.

[LessThan2Tflops]

@feline

What did I say tha is wrong? Gddr5 is based on ddr3, look it up . It's nothing new and have been in graphic cards for years . Gddr5 has worse lantecny than ddr3,

[Vicodin]

.

[LessThan2Tflops]

@vicodin

No gddr5 and ddr5 are not the same thing. Gddr5 uses ddr3 technology, ddr5 doesn't exist

[Cupid_Viper_3]

@ reynod

Clearly you don't understand what the word means.

"op·ti·mi· ;za·tion [op-tuh-muh-zey-shuhn] Show IPA
1.
the fact of optimizing; making the best of anything.
2.
the condition of being optimized.
3.
Mathematics . a mathematical technique for finding a maximum or minimum value of a function of several variables subject to a set of constraints, as linear programming or systems analysis."

I don't know how else I can explain what that means to you than the example I gave you earlier with the cars.

lol Options? lol, like I'm not typing this from a computer? How dense are you son?

[cayleee]

@Cupid_Viper_3

So now Consoles are 600HP Formula 1 cars, While PCs are 1200HP Corvettes.

Stop making yourself look bad.

Despite all the optimization low end Pcs are in fact outperforming consoles. No reason to believe that will change even with the arrival of the next consoles.

[aquamala]

I can't believe I'm still reading posts of people that think gddr5 is ddr5, how long are people going to stay uninformed?

let me google it for you

"Like its predecessor, GDDR4, GDDR5 is based on DDR3 SDRAM memory"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

and @faline yes PC gamers that build their own PCs would know a lot more about memory,CPUs and GPUs than your average console gamer

[bourg]

Are you guys serious?

DDR5 and GDDR5 are the same thing. The memory is called GDDR5 if it is used exclusively in graphics cards and DDR5 if it is used for an entire system like the PS4.

[aquamala]

@bourg

no not the same thing at all, show me the specs of ddr5, it doesn't exist. ddr4 won't be out til the end of the year. gddr5 is just ddr3 with a pre fetch buffer.

oh of course your account is just created 8 minutes ago, why you already used up all your bubbles?

[cayleee]

PS4's total shared Memory bandwidth will be 176GB/s

Mid range GPUs of today are already pushing 192GB/s (Dedicated).

By the time PS4 is out, Midrange GPUs will be pushing 250GB/s (Dedicated)

PS4's memory really isnt anything special when compared to PCs. It has to be shared with the CPU, which will just compromise how much the GPU gets.

[Dead_Cell]

Virgins.

[kikizoo]

"Even back when PS3 was released a PC equipped with a 8800GTX outperformed it. Same is the case today. A 6 year old PC equipped with a 8800GTX will outperform a console even today."

Amnesia ! show us 2006 to 2009 games withy better graphics than unchartedµ2, gow3, etc

COnsole always have better games and graphics for 4,5 years, before pc can take back the graphic crown (with only few games, and only some pc)...and don't dream, specs and resolution are not enough to make beautifull graphisms.

By the way, why all the unsecure pc fanboyz with costy graphic cards are always making the same mistake at launch ? (after that, they generaly disapear

[T900]

@Kikizoo

Check out BF3 running on 8800GTX. 720p Medium settings. 64 player MP. I bet it could probably handle 1080p with some tweaking.

6 years later its still playing games beyond what the consoles are managing.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Way back when it released Crysis 1 was still new, i remember playing crysis 1 on a 8800GTX played the game in 1080p medium settings. Check today Consoles barely manage any Crysis game in 720p

Crysis > Uncharted or GOW period.

[shutUpAndTakeMyMoney]

"Feel free to show us these PCs with DDR5 memory for the entire system like the PS4 has. "

Feel free to show us these PS4s with DDR5 memory for the entire system like you say the the PS4 has.

Also how much of this memory is used for OS and other things?

Also dedicated memory > shared memory. And ddr4 ram and gddr6 next year.

Huge bandwidth and high latency through the whole system is the trade off but that will be fixed next year.

http://computerstories.net/...

Also ps4 has l3 cache shared for all 8 core which will slow it down even more.

PS4 is awsome but many don't want it to be an console they want it to be a 2025 high end pc. Please don't get in a power match with pc's you will lose if not at launch soon.

We have been through this before.

I hope killzone just get to 60fps. Either way I am getting a ps4 but let the power trip go please.

Games will look amazing! But it's a mobile cpu with a shrunken gpu to fit on the chip. Still ps4 ftw!

[Rageanitus]

ummm GDDR5 isnt it for video and not main memor ram.

I think hardcore console fanboys are gonna be in for a shocker when the console actually gets released at the end of thise year.

You have to remember consoles are static hardware configuration, and PC's are NOT.

The specs have already been determined in the background, and I am sure they had it set about a year ago.

[loulou]

and RAM is going to be all that sony fanboys go on about for the next 5-6 years ffs

[profgerbik]

Umm it is GDDR5 not DDR5.. -_-... and yea PC have had that for about 2 years now.. with just about every graphics card available.

It may not be set up the same as the PS4 but PC has indeed had that type of graphics memory for a while now.

I am not bragging or even talking shit but I am just trying to inform you or others who seem to be confused.

Do I really need to post links? You could simply look online at most of the graphics cards for PC and notice many of them all have been using GDDR5, these cards have been out for a about close to 2 years now if not more.

http://www.newegg.com/Produ...

Pretty old ATI with GDDR5

http://www.newegg.com/Produ...

What do you know the Asus Mars III even has 8GB of GDDR5 in one single card...

http://wccftech.com/asus-ma...

PS4 will be great but people need to stop being idiots about it is all I am saying. That is not even including using Cross Fire or SLI. You could quadruple that graphics memory if you wanted to.

I have seen decked out PC's running two CPU's and 4 graphics cards all at once not including the actual RAM in a computer can far exceed the PS4.. I am sorry but the PS4 just isn't going to be doing that or else it would be expensive as shit.

What kind of worries me is the PS4 only has GDDR5. Also I want to know what the graphics memory is running at internally, I know it is 8GB but graphics memory in a way works like a OS in a sense. I wonder what the internal memory is in the graphics chip.

Every GPU has an internal memory. For instance you could buy many 2GB graphics cards but not everyone one will perform the same because some will come with a lower internal memory. Internal memory in graphics I know is far more important than the graphics memory they show. Some may come with only 2GB at 128-bits or 2GB at 256-bit, 2GB at 512-bit and so on.

There reason I say it like an OS, you all know an OS can run at 32 bits and 64 bits and clearly there is a jump graphically between the two. In the same sense a graphics card with a higher internal memory will outperform the same card with the same graphics memory with a lower internal memory if that isn't too confusing.

It is kind of misleading how they label these graphic cards, it how they sell them most people just pay attention to the graphics memory.. I learned that ages ago when buying a graphics card it is important to pay attention to the internal memory size first then the graphics memory second.

[profgerbik]

Sorry for any spelling errors and the skipped words.

I have bad habit of thinking I wrote something but I guess I tried typing too fast and like a blind idiot just skimmed by but you should definitely get my point.

I guess I used all my edit time writing that second part. So bare with the errors at the end, there are a plenty.

[Autodidactdystopia]

profgerbik

I think the word you're looking for when you say "internal memory"

Is "memory bus width"

absolutely correct a card with a 384bit bus width is usually outperformed by a wide margin with a card that has a larger 512bit bus width

[ichimaru]

"Memory speed is one of the major reasons why the PS3's graphics looked so far, far beyond anything the Xbox 360 put out this gen despite the fact that both systems had 512 megs"

bro, you know the 360 used unified RAM , and the PS3 used spilt RAM right(256 for gpu256 for CPU). That was one of the few advatages Microsoft had over sony last gen. Unified RAM is supposedly more practicle in Consoles, as they can access data from the same RAM pool. This is also why I hope the rumors of the 720 using split RAM are false. Sony got it right with their Unified architecture for the PS4

[Amsterdamsters]

This is in reply to T900...looks like a lot of fanboys that don't understand tech at all have down voted your comment. I'm sure that it's because it doesn't correlate with all the hype they've bought into.

[fr0sty]

Pc's have had gddr5 for a while. However, they usually only have a few gb's of it, unless you're spending as much on the gpu as the ps4 will cost. Then you have to factor in that even with the latest pci express connection, you still don't get cpu to gpu bandwidth like ps4 enjoys since both are on the same die in ps4, reducing cpu's ability to aid the gpu and vice versa in a pc. You do have more latency with gddr5, but video games aren't as latency dependent as they are bandwidth dependent, so for a game console it doesn't matter as much. Then you have operating system overhead, which will be much less in a dedicated console than in a pc that has many more background processes running, and api's that don't let you code "to the metal" as much on a pc. Then you have split memory pools, which increases bandwidth for pc but also gives ps4 the advantage of being able to dynamically allocate more vram if needed by it's gpu. Ps4's os is rumored to reserve 1.5gb's, leaving 6.5 for cpu and vram. Since pc games are designed to run on midrange systems for max compatibility, I see ps4 keeping up with pc's that cost hundreds more to build for a little while when you consider all of the above. Each has it's advantages, but ps4 is a very capable system fine tuned for gaming. Not an office machine retrofitted to be able to play videogames.

[Ju]

GDDR5 is so bad for CPUs that AMD is actually releasing a APU using it: Kaveri will fully support GDDR5 later this year. I suggest sending an email to AMD because those dumbos must not have gotten the memo. /s

http://www.xbitlabs.com/new...

Internet experts.

For the ones actually interested, this is what the PS4 is all about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Kaveri shares the architecture of the PS4 cpu (on a different core).

[delboy]

Ps4 RAM=Ps3 Cell
Fanboys have to have something brag about.
Out of those 8GB only a small portion would be used as Video ram, maybe 2GB, because Cpu and Gpu can only chew so much, the rest will be for OS and texture or asets cache.
So a system with only 2GB of GDDR5 can produce same graphics as ps4.
Just look how much video ram Crysis3 uses on ultra settings and everything should be clear, and a side note a i7 with gtx680 can chew more graphic data then ps4 ever will.

[brich233]

Exactly, the cell was really overated and a waste of time for developers. Thier was nothing diffrent about the games that we havent see before. And as far as having 8gb of ram... developers have to be innovative first for the 8gb of ram to really mean anything.

[Feline_Pornographer]

"Thier was nothing diffrent about the games that we havent see before"

Take the fanboy goggles off...

The PS3 destroyed the wimpy Xbox 360 this gen. The wimpy Xbox 360 got beaten so badly this gen its fanboys had to resort to desperately scanning crappy multiplatform titles frantically looking for something to brag about.

No console in history has every gotten beat like the Xbox 360 did this gen in graphics.

Seven years after the wimpy Xbox 360 came out the only game its fanboys have to brag about is a game running Epics awful crossplatform Unreal engine with its 'shiny normal maps everywhere!' tech.

The Xbox 360's only game anyone every even tries to claim can come close PS3 level graphics, Gears of War, gets destroyed by the PS3's Uncharted:

http://kineticninja.blogspo...

People use to think Dreamcast fans were delusional when it got destroyed by the PS2 in graphics. Xbox 360 fans are making Dreamcast fans look sane...

[delboy]

Yeah but fanboys think that ram has computing power and that it will be used for better A.I. or thinhgs like that.
It's funny to read all dose comments from clueless fanboys.
Can ps3 run Skyrim? Or Witcher2? Or Fallout?
No ps3 is weaker than xbox360, ps3 can only run Uncharted and GoW wich are linear tunel shooters or has fixed camera like in GoW.
Nothing special abot those games.

[aquamala]

@feline_

if ps3 is so much more powerful than 360, why don't the multi plat games look like the PC versions? why do they always look about identical to 360? we are not seeing games in 1080p with dx11 effects onh ps3 are we?

[bourg]

Those actual Gears of War in game graphics are absolutely hilariously bad.

Unbelievable that that is the best the Xbox 360 was able to put out this gen. Microsoft really blew it when they rushed the Xbox 360 out the door with such ridiculously weak graphics hardware compared to the what Sony ended up putting in the PS3.

Looking back at the GameCube, PS2, and Xbox. All three consoles had games that were the best looking of the generation. The GameCube had the Metroid Prime games, the PS2 had the God of War, Gran Turismo games, and the Xbox had its games with 'teh shiny' like Halo.

The Xbox 360 has been an unprecedented graphical failure.

[teo72]

Do you Delboy even know what Unified Memory means. It means that they can allocate the 8GB Gddr5 memory any way they want. Memory bandwith / 30 FPS (console standard for many games) = 5,86 GB max detail per frame active throughput with CPU and GPU combined. This means they can and some developers probably will allocate around 5GB for graphics. Not many PC GPU cards can do the same. And common for them all is that they are rather expensive...

What will be interesting is to see if the PS4 has enough grunt to take advantage of this much VRam. 5GB frames sound like an awful lot of data.

Remember: In order to take advantage of the theoretical active throughput per frame, you need at least that much Vram on the graphicscard, as the GPU needs somewhere to store the data before sending out the finished frame.

[T900]

@teo72

Thats not how things work.

First you have to consider not all 8GB will be used toward games. More so all of it cant be used toward VRAM, its shared.

You need to chop of 2GB for OS and future reserves.

The game itself will probably end up taking 2-3GB of RAM.

You will potentially only be left with 2-3GB for VRAM.

Its debatable how much of that VRAM the PS4s GPU really will be able to use. If RAM was all it took to increase performance Nvidia and AMD would be packing tons of it on their PC GPUs, they dont do that for a reason.

The GPU used in the PS4 is nothing ground breaking its a mid range GPU at best.

Further evidence can be seen with the upcoming Killzone game, it only uses 1.5GB of video RAM. That should tell you something. PS4 wont be able to take advantage of all that RAM not from a VRAM perspective anyways.

Hence stop using RAM size as a guide to performance.

Rather it will be the CPU and GPU that will be the determining factors, both of which are low end to mid range on the PS4.

Edit:

"Not many PC GPU cards can do the same. And common for them all is that they are rather expensive... "

Wrong again, most mid range GPUs of today already provide more than 176GB/s Memory bandwidth. Btw again PS4 will have to SHARING that bandwidth not all goes to the GPU.

In the PCs case all of it goes to the GPUs.

HD 7950 already provides 240GB/s bandwidth (dedicated), thats alot higher than PS4's Shared 176GB/s.

[Armyntt]

Some of these comments from the likes of felinewhatever are the most fanboyish stuff ive read in awhile. Now while a person is allowed to have ones own "opinions" on things he has such a negative spin on things it makes you wonder what the quality of life this guy has outside of gaming. The PS3 had great looking games this gen but so did the 360. Fanboys are just that fanboys, not hardcore gamers. I used to think this site was for the hardcore but there is just too many fanboys on both sides now.

[BullyMangler]

. affected by my facts ha! = facts of pain?

[Gameatholon]

Bully not sure what it is you're trying to say.

I thought this article was about the PS4 being able to do some amazing things, but you guys feel the need to attack Nintendo.

I think a lot of you fail to realize that without Nintendo, gaming wouldn't be what it is today, so give a little respect.

[smashcrashbash]

Yeah may I also point out like I have done several times that gaming wouldn't be the way it is today thanks to every single gaming company we have had.So I would appreciate if you would stop pretending Nintendo did it on their own with no help or inspiration from anyone else like most people do. Never forget it was Magnavox, Atari and Sega that pioneered gaming along side Nintendo.Gaming would be what it is today without everyone's help and innovation.Even failed consoles like Jaguar and 3DO contributed fully voiced animated cutscenes.

[kingPoS]

Man, your so right! Without Nintendo the PlayStation might not of ever happened. Heck they practically pioneered the shoulder buttons & the four button layout.

Remember the GEN vs SNES era. Well I use to think the SEGA six button pad was better. lol It might have been great back then then, but it ain't true now.

[Geovanny]

Maybe COD will finally die out now. Thanks innovation.

[Knight_Crawler]

And replaced by what Killzone and Halo...innovation -_-

[N0S3LFESTEEM]

It would be a first person hugging simulator if Obama has anything to do about it.

[Rainstorm81]

Obama said he was banning violent games when did this happen?......oh wait good thing Games fall under the 1st Amendment.

I swear, ever since we have had a black president you conspiracy theorists have gone over the deep end harder than normal.

[Felonycarclub8]

Wii u is not next gen but its not a bad system is just overpriced and well at least is in hd but am going to wait for a price cut.

[admiralvic]

"Wii u is not next gen "

People like you do realize that "next gen" isn't about how much power the system has, but simply releasing after this gen, right?

[Hicken]

Actually, "generation" can be used to denote either way. We wouldn't really call the Wii U "next-gen" if there were no significant performance improvement over the Wii, would we? I mean, the Wii, itself, got away with it because it was a completely different concept from the Gamecube.

Technologically speaking, generations are often separated by performance capabilities, not just the period during which they're released, chronologically.

[younghavok]

If all next gen is is more power than Wii U IS next gen as it has more power than the ps360 and way more than the Wii. If its a measure of time than it is also next gen. If its an expansion on gameplay than its also next gen. I didnt have built in remote play last gen or any other gen before it. I could never pause a game and open a web browser before. I could never play 5 player split screen in a game before with only 1 tv. If that isnt next gen than i seriously dont know what is. Nintendo has done more with the Wii U than people give it credit for. Plus its fully backwards compatibile with the Wii. Its expanded more on its previous version than the PS4 has over the PS3. So think about that

[Felonycarclub8]

Okay so wii u is next gen and ps4 and the next Xbox are next next gen, sorry but Wii u is not that much powerful than the ps3. PS4 is way more powerful than ps3 and it will do more things than pa3 ever could or the wii u. I don't hate the wii u I just think is overpriced and it's not fully backwards compatible if it was it would play GameCube games not just wii games if the wii could play them then wii u should too right? Ps4 doesn't play them for a reason the same reason they took the GameCube out of the wii u? So think about that before you go bashing on the ps4 for not having backwards compatibility.

[younghavok]

I had to re read my post to make sure of it but nowhere in there did I bash on the PS4 for not having backwards compatibility. And Wii U is fully backwards compatibile with the Wii. It plays Wii games and uses Wii accesories. Gamecube is two gens behind and the Wii was backwards compatibie with the gamecube. As I said, when you compare the consoles to their previous iterations, the Wii U is more advanced than the PS4 is. I stand by that. Remote play, Miiverse, downloadble retail games, 5 player splitscreen, video chat. All this is out the gate and out the box. Just because its not as powerful as the PS4 does not make it any less of a next gen console. It added plenty with console features, same way Sony is doing with the PS4 and power. Everybody has their own tastes, for me personally great visuals lose their appeal faster than anything else to me. Remote play is still a joy to me all these months later But thats me.

[_QQ_]

that's like saying ps4 is not next gen becuase a high end pc pulls down it's pants and shits all over it....

[Qrphe]

That's like saying PC and the Magnavox Oddysey are in the same generation because there was no PC2

Brotip: don't categorize PC in generations for obvious reasons
Brotip to 90% of everyone above: reread the stuff you post sometimes, seriously

[_QQ_]

the point of my comment is to show him how dumb he looks saying the wiiU isn't next Gen, not sure how you didnt catch that.

[khowat]

Okay here is some video of Infamous Second Son
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Sucker punch has confirmed that this is real gameplay

This is the zelda wii u tech demo, I cannot say that this is real gameplay, but we at least know that this is running in real-time
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Again I cannot say this is real gameplay

Obviously the PS4 wins no question

But with the wii u that's pretty good for 2 gigs of ram and a seven-year-old tech

The gap may not be as wide as we think

[first1NFANTRY]

I'm really happy Sony went with 8gigs of GDDR5 ram for the PS4. I think next gen will focus largely on AI, larger worlds and overall immersive experience for the end user.

Not to take anything away from the graphics but the features mentioned above will breath more life into the games.

[EffectO]

lmao,GDDR5=New Cell

Pachter is really clueless when it comes to tech.

[TrevorPhillips]

I think I'm going to cry guys, I love you Sony :')

PS4 coming soon to our homes!

[ichimaru]

You love a company....based halfway around the world

[stuna1]

I'd like some of what the guy above me is smoking!

What some haven't taken into acount, is when the WII came out it was was smoking the competition of the assembly line! Cheap, innovative motion controls and most of all Casual friendly. Those are really things that are afterthought with the WII U! Example the WII transcended all age barriers, from the very young to the very old.

The WII U doesn't have that ability to entice the the older population, hell most 55 year old and up don't have up to date phones, the majority would just as well settle for a Obama phone.

I read a commenters post a while back where he progressional increase of ram has been between 8x to 10x, and for the most part that has happened with each console from generation to generation except in Nintendo's case.

It's pretty obvious with the close of this generation, the increase of ram for next generation was not just a want, it has become a necessity.

[admiralvic]

The thing is, the Wii U is the very definition of "2 steps forward, 1 step back".

While the Wii progressed onward, Nintendo seemed to have acknowledged turning their backs on the "hardcore" community and made some changes to accommodate them. These changes also result in it being easier / more likely to see third party support.

However, the Wii U still supports the Wii mote and can still appeal to the groups you list.

[solid_warlord]

Nintendo has its fair share of massive failures

Virtual Boy = Fail
N64 = Fail
GameCube = Fail
Wii U = (impeding failure)

If Nintendo fails this gen, they either gamble all there money and try for on last next gen of home console war or they call it quits and become a software only company.

[admiralvic]

@ Solid_Warlord

What does that have to do with ANYTHING I said?

[1nsaint]

@solid_warlord really? N64 and gamecube failed? Last time i checked it made nintendo billions.

What have you accomplished? besides having an dumb username on N4G.

[Jakens]

Overall, Nintendo is not is trouble. Meaning, they could fail and easily try agian.

[Amsterdamsters]

This is in reply to solid_warlord.

Please explain what made the systems you mention failures. While from a sales standpoint, the Virtual Boy was the worst, it still managed to sell 170k+. Just curious, have you produced and sold that many of anything? If not, are you a failure because of it?

The PS3 is in last place, yet I along with many others have enjoyed it for years. Lastly, your prediction of the Wii U failing makes me wonder if your were also one of the people who claimed the 3DS was going to fail early on.

If a system is produced and has games that I enjoy, I would never consider it a failure...that would take a very narrow minded person for that.

[TheSaint]

Isn't this an article about PS4? We all know the wii is weakest console so how about we focus on the actual next gen?

[Bladesfist]

This site is really going downhill with all these stupid articles. Developers bring innovation, not hardware. It is normally something that is aimed at by indie developers who tend to prefer an open platform because then they do not have to worry about working with Sony or Microsoft, paying stupid money to update their game ect. This is why PC is the home of indie developers.

GDDR5 is not a miracle that Sony have invented. It is Graphics RAM that is used because of its high bandwidth making it a good choice for transferring big chunks of data like textures. It is not used for system memory as it would hurt the performance of the CPU by increasing latency. People keep saying that GDDR5 is the future but have no idea about hardware.

[CEOSteveBallmer]

Great, 360fans vs. PS3 fans, when it went cold now its "PC fans vs. Playstation fans. All I can say is, PC fans just leave the console gamers alone okay? they are just pointing out their opinion even though some of it is wrong. It's like PC gamers are looking for a "Fight". Stop it because it will only make you look "Bitter" because the developers support the consoles more. So if a console gamer says, "Yey wow great graphics im soo happy PS4 is so awesome", just leave them alone Ok? they are not Provoking you to an argument. So tendency is, you comment on them, they will obviously fight back.

[kenshiro100]

I just think its hilarious. We know nothing about either console and there's fights breaking out all over the place.

[Mogwai]

People keep banging on about how apple and google are taking away core gamers....they are bloody not! people that play games on phones/tablets arent core gamers, they play these simplified games while waiting for the train or at the doctors surgery or for a casual distraction, no gamer is thinking "stuff ps4/xboxnext im getting an ipad/iphone for games instead" even kids get bored of app games, my 8 yr old neice would rather play minecraft than anghry birds. its absolutey ridiculous reporting.

[Jakens]

Great graphics to me don't imply that they are great graphics to PC gamers. I never intend to put down what others may call great graphics.

[leemo19]

Patcher is a idiot he really is. Ps3 by the time it ends it will sold 85-100 million,. Sony gets it under $200 ps3 will be going off the shelf really fast. If Sony sells ps4 for $600 or even $500 like they did with the ps3 it will be very slow start again. I can see Sony selling the ps4 between $350-$450 its gotta be at some reasonable price.

Now the ram is more than enough and will help push games even further and smoothly, but innovation of how the games will be made? well that depends on the imagination and creativity of the developer.

[leogets]

doesn't "super charged PC acticture" mean anything to u guys?

[DivineAssault]

Publishers, Indies, Developers, Analysts, Gamers, Fanboys, etc ALL PRAISE PS4.. Sony will rule nx gen w/o a doubt (core market anyway).. Vita & PS4 will have some amazing stuff & i cant wait to see it.. The possibilities are endless.. New IPs, reboots, sequels, prequels, every damn thing will be on it..

I dont think it will be hard at all for nx gen to replicate current gens sales.. All the latest n greatest games will be on them so ppl will upgrade within the nx 2+ yrs

[Studio-YaMi]

Funny thing in the comment section ..
most of the comments(trolling) are from PC fanboys ..!

Why are you people so damn scared of the PS4 ??? I don't get it ! :\

If it's not as impressive as your godly rigs at home,why care !? let the console gamers gloat about how good their next gen consoles are instead of trying so hard to make it "less" than what it's meant to be.

The PS4 is a beastly console,the games are going to talk for the system,not anything else.

[puamdefokejpn]

well said.

PS: PC guys should be thrilled by this,.. since almost all AAA games that come to pc come from us and because of us.

Gddr5 is just godly.

[CrustifiedDibbs]

"Why are you people so damn scared of the PS4 ??? I don't get it ! :\"

i dont think anyone is "scared" of the ps4. not sure why you kiddies think that way? the reason for pc gamers chiming in has to do with the gross amount of disinformation flying around this place. i think most pc gamers are trying to keep you people gounded and realistic, which most consolers, are not atm.

i play mostly on pc and im not "scared" of the ps4. i cant wait. im buying it day one. new consoles help everyone.

[MikeMyers]

Why would anyone be scared of the PS4? Don't we want the industry to flourish whether you play games on consoles, PC or handhelds?

People know the cycle, they know in the beginning consoles comes out swinging and competing with PC games for graphical supremacy and then the PC gets further and further ahead. That's just the way things go.I think what people get sick of (at least I do) is all the arguing going on from console fanboys. We seen most of this this generation from the Xbox 360 and PS3 camp. It was embarrassing to see and it will no doubt carry over next gen.

From the article,
"He also predicts Microsoft’s Xbox 720 to sell the same amount."

Who here agrees and disagrees with that? Who here has a problem with that statement? Who here has already sided with one system and not the other even though we don't know all the details? So to sit there and mention PC fanboys are scared of the PS4 is just stupid? The people who are really threatened are the console fanboys with the competition.

[Omeganex9999]

You PC whores should be happy that the PS4 is a mid range PC. It will improve all your multiplatform games, you will have a lot of good portings this time.

[b_one]

im wondering, how Scorched earth would look like on ps4 with so much GDDR5 ram.

[TABSF]

Refer to my previous comments

http://n4g.com/news/1187625...

http://n4g.com/news/1180153...

http://n4g.com/news/1181637...

http://n4g.com/news/1178068...

http://n4g.com/news/1178049...

My points are

PS4 CPU is based on a midrange laptop/home theatre PC just doubled up (AMD don't consider Jaguar High-End)
Has a barely high-end GPU that will be midrange before the PS4 is even out.

Only thing going for it is the 8GB RAM but like everyone has said, even the best looking games on PC never go over 2GB GDDR5 at 1080p unless its 3 triple monitor or higher resolution. PS4 GPU can't achieve 4K gaming only 4K films
Plus the memory latency could be a issue for PS4.

PS4 is only gonna be equal to a midrange gaming PC, its using PC hardware which is not even considered high-end.
Intel Core i7 3970X, i7 3770K or i5 3570K (been out over a year) destroys the PS4 AMD Jaguar CPU
AMD FX 8150/8120 and FX 8350 can destroy the PS4 CPU
Nvidia GeForce GTX Titan destroys the PS4 GPU
AMD Radeon HD 7970 destroys the PS4 GPU

[Omeganex9999]

Yep, talking about raw power you are right, this is nothing new, it's always been the same.
But you can't forget the optimization; build a PC similar in power to the Xbox 360 or a PS3 and try to play today's games on them.
A console doesn't need all the power a PC needs, since it's main purpose is gaming. Games usually do not take advantage of all the features of the hardware, so there's no point in comparing and saying which one is the best. This is almost as stupid as saying "PS4 CAN'T DO 1080/60p".

[Ju]

That might all be true and valid, but the "other" truth is, if I'd want to play around with HSA and see what I could do with it, there's nothing remotely close to the performance envelope of the PS4 - not yet, not any time soon, unfortunately (Kaveri the only one on the horizon will still be half the performance at best; unless they upgrade the GPU to a 79xx series). But, well, I'd like to build me one of those ASAP available. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

[Drainage]

ps4 shits on the PC gaming platform except the graphics which we control anyways because they are made with consoles in mind. lmao!!

[Stevo2k]

Hang on a minute if 8 gb ram is no good and wont be used then why have the debs themselves asked for more ram?

[Cueil]

because they probably already know what the overhead is going to be

[cedaridge]

PS4 make.believe

[Schawk]

So the truth behind these comments are if u want to have a decent gameing machine buy a PC?

[N0S3LFESTEEM]

Indeed...

[Adolph Fitler]

@MasterCornholio
"You would think that having a superior console that's cheaper than the competition would cause it to blow the competition away in terms of sales which would bring heavy 3rd party support to the system."

If the whole power thing were true, then 3DO, Jaguar, etc, etc, would have been a more dominant force in this industry. Nope, you need an already established name, which is why Sony had no problems with consumers, as brand recognition & trust was already a weapon they donned. Not only did they don that, but they had on there side, a secret weapon that Nintendo built for them pretty much.....They offered these 3rd party developers an escape, from these Japanese giants in Nintendo & Sega, that practically hated 3rd parties, as they saw them as competition. This is why I dislike Nintendo's ethics & ideals. They put profit, far ahead of innovation & all the other garbage that Nintendo fanboys praise them for. Google the EA 16bit days, story. It is fascinating reading, & gives insight, into just how controlling & money driven Nintendo is, & the greed part is the reason they deceived Sony, when PS was a project Sony research & developed & funded, putting multiple millions of dollars into, as an add on CD drive supposed to be for the SNES. Nintendo had them do this, then showed there true colours by meeting up with Panasonic, behind Sony's back, when Sony & everybody else, were under the impression that they already had a pretty much sealed deal. Nintendo did this act of deception, to try & maximize there end of the profits. They thought Sony were getting the better chunk of the pie, simply because Sony were the ones who did EVERYTHING, the R&D, the input of finances, the blood, sweat & tears involved in production. But, off Nintendo went & made deal with Panasonic, that would infuriate the best of us, if we were on Sony's end of the stick. They went ahead, making a deal with Panasonic, then screwed Panasonic & broke off the whole thing.
I was a former NES & SNES owner, & I did like the company before I heard all this, & more, which I partially get into below.
As I was saying, I thought Nintendo were the greatest, that was until Sony came along & proved, you don't have to be a-holes to developers & publishers, to be successful in the console biz. I mean, it's worked for Nintendo, as they have this untarnished, family value BS going on. But, the truth is, they are greedy bastards, that are still attempted to hold up the proper amounts of progress, all in the console hardware business should be making.

[Adolph Fitler]

@MasterCornholio
"Not only that but as a consequence of poor sales 3rd party's choose to support the PS2 instead of the GameCube."

No they didn't, as stated above, the majority of 3rd party support was gone before GC was a thought. Sony & Nintendo's stubborn, pig headedness, when they refused to give the limited cartridge format the flick. Sony's CD based PSone was 3rd parties opportunity to escape Nintendo's non existant 3rd party support. And when looking at GC's & N64's poor sales (install base), you have got to factor in the controller, as well. Nintendo, not only had the most powerful hardware, when compared to there competition, back in the 16bit days, but they also had the most practical, comfortable, best laid out, quality feeling controller. The SNES buttons felt beautifully awesome to press in, I'm bit sure what it was, but they just had a comfort & quality feel to them.
Then, Nintendo decided that there proprietry cartridge format, was what we needed, & gave us the N64, & that hideous, horrid, uncomfortable, cheap Chinese plasticy feeling thing that was OK for about 1 genre, Mario...Yep, the 3D platform genre, was about the only single genre the abomination that is the N64 controller was at least partially functional for.
So, 3rd parties were waiting for the day they could give Nintendo the 1 finger salute say, "sianara & sorry for the spelling bitch, shove Mario, Mario Kart, Mario Tennis, Mario Golf, Mario Cricket, Mario Baseball, Mario Bowling, Mario badmington, Mario Crochet, Mario Cross stitching, Mario Horseriding, Mario does Debbie (f$#k, I'd get that one), Mario bangs Luigi In His Backdoor Of The Mansion".

With that said, Sony came along & gave developers & publishers the chance to do the aforementioned, that they had all been yearning for, as for all these years, Nintendo were complete tyrannical, communist-esque, a-holes. They charged ridiculous prices for poor 3rd party developers the opportunity (or privilege, as the ego-centric, overly greedy, & nasty Nintendo saw it), HUGE costs for dev. kits was just the entry point, that many wannabe developers couldn't afford, unless they mortgaged the whole companies dev. teams houses, or were already massive, established 3rd party developers/publishers, Nintendo kept on ripping off 3rd party developers & publisher by making shonky hunks of plastic called cartridges...these outdated pieces of history were a huge finance generator for Nintendo (& Sega), as they would not only charge a license fee to use there trademarked format, but the cartridges themselves, Nintendo charged an arm & leg for, as Nintendo & Sega, were the only ones allowed to produce these things (until EA came & kicked some arse &

[jacksheen0000]

All this talk about the GDDR5 latency problem the PS4 will have should be the thing of the past.

I mean, hardware technology is getting better every year.

Hardware manufacture like itel/amd have finally realized CPU don't need to have high clock speed to crunch out enormous amount of calculation. So technically, latency problem should be down to a minimum.

Not to mention, the CPU and GPU is on the same die which should also help in some way to bring down the latency problem.

OH, what about the GPU/CPU mother board? It could be soldered on to a 2 ply board or 4 ply broad for all we know. There is a big difference. Remember the NEO GEO? well, it was packing a 4 ply mother board and not a 2 ply mother board like 360/ps3 uses; which make a helluva difference when it come to bandwidth. Oh, what about the 28nm process Sony's CPU/CPU is made with. There are many factors to consider here before passing any judgment on whether the PS4 is using current tech or not.

just my 2 cents.

[worldwidegaming]

I agree, we need to start focus on the other parts.

[Adolph Fitler]

Then, Nintendo decided that there proprietry cartridge format, was what we needed, & gave us the N64, & that hideous, horrid, uncomfortable, cheap Chinese plasticy feeling thing that was OK for about 1 genre, Mario...Yep, the 3D platform genre, was about the only single genre the abomination that is the N64 controller was at least partially functional for.
So, 3rd parties were waiting for the day they could give Nintendo the 1 finger salute say, "sianara & sorry for the spelling bitch, shove Mario, Mario Kart, Mario Tennis, Mario Golf, Mario Cricket, Mario Baseball, Mario Bowling, Mario badmington, Mario Crochet, Mario Cross stitching, Mario Horseriding, Mario does Debbie (f$#k, I'd get that one), Mario bangs Luigi In His Backdoor Of The Mansion".
took names, by building there own Genesis/MD, thus allowing them a self produced development kit, & they now could make there own Genesis/MD cartridges & games for waaay less cost, thanks to no payee for Sega's overprices dev. kit & former proprietry medium).
Nintendo especially & Sega as well, would also charge even more for dev. kits, if you were not a Japanese 3rd party developer... I mean, substantial amounts more money, in 10's of 1000's (back in the 80's, when 10's of 1000's was todays equivalent of 100's of 1000's), on a kit that was already unaffordable to even Japanese based 3rd party developers. Nintendo, also were renowned for knocking back games that were deemed by Nintendo, to be too close in in content, to one of Nintendo's IP's, then wuppah....Nintendo gives it the chop. I guess if Sonic was made by 3rd party developer & they went to the huge expense of developing the game, then submitting there Gold (for a want of a better word) version of the game, Nintendo would axe it. Great company. I would say Sega bebefitted & got many of Nintendo's knockbacks.

[Summons75]

It would be nice for ai o be improved. Metal gear solid on the ps1 has better ai than half the games today, honestly it's embarrassing that graphics are the focus and its perfectly okay to have ai just running into walls nonstop (resident evil 5's sheva) or in a stealth game run around slaughtering everyone in broad daylight while guards just watch and keep talking (dishonored) when they could focus on improving that and overall game design. Wiiu is innovative by making a completely new way to play console games but ps4 could improve the way we think about game design. However it looks like Sony is focusing on graphics to please the PC elitests. I'll still buy a ps4 if the price is right of course.

[Rhythmattic]

Please, someone tell me the difference between DDR3 and GDDR5..

I have read GDDR5 running @ 128bit is equivalent to double the size of DDR3 ram @128bit .. I guess the 256mb of XDR in the ps3 can prove that high bandwidth ram has advantages.

However, everyone is throwing around GDDR5 has a "higher latency" tag... Is there actually a value on this? What nano/pico seconds? Is it the access time or load time into the ram buffer...

Surely 8Gb of DDR3 is not as good as 8Gb of GDDR5.

What and where is this latency ? Will it actually make a difference or is it just something to complain about?

Whether its right or not... It has me looking for an answer.
Something I found on overclockers: Posted by Chris_s

"The GDDRx interface is designed for direct point to point transfers between the memory controller and RAM chip over very short distance and a single 32-bit channel. DDRx is designed for a multi load bus over a much longer distance over a wider 64-bit channel with multiple junctures like the DIMM socket solder points, DIMM/socket contacts and varying numbers of RAM chips. DDRx needs to allow greater tolerances for capacitve load, reflections and attenuation causing interference and clock skew. GDDRx trades versatility for performance."

http://forums.overclockers....

[kevnb]

it might be ok for a closed system, but its still just ram.
edit: what? Its more akin to all cars needing fuel. There are advantages to using better fuel, but really you just need enough. (atleast for the cpu). There are other things to come into play, but i think gddr5 is ok for a console. But why are we still talking about the ram in every article anyway?

[Rhythmattic]

Just like all cars ..

They mostly have 4 wheels (Unlike the 3 wheeler classed as a car in the UK) and an engine.

PS : I was actually hoping someone could enlighten me instead of stating an obvious.

[Rhythmattic]

That is my question.... Why, how come, and is it really advantageous....

So we do yes?

[kevnb]

everyone is an expert... lol. Anyway all the amount of ram should tell people is that the ps4 wont be bottle necked by ram. Ive seen computers using much faster ram than others for the cpu, not much performance difference there. But for the gpu, the bandwith needs to be there.

[teo72]

T900, I know not all 8GB can be used for graphics. OS will according to vgleaks take up no more than 512MB of ram. That leaves 7,5GB. 2-2,5GB of ram should be more than enough for all non-graphics related code on a console game. That leaves 5GB for the Gpu to play with. I am not saying that this is what all developers will do. All I am saying is that the 5GB figure I used, is realistic.

I know that even if the PS4 can dedicate 5GB to graphics, that alone does not guarantee that the GPU will be able to fill each frame with that much data. All I'm saying is that I find it interesting that for the first time in console history Ram seems not to be an issue anymore. Developers seems overjoyed with the 8GB Ram announcement.

Now to your PC GPU cards statement. Even if you have 288GB/s memory bandwith, that means you have to have at least 4,8GB available on the GPU card for 60FPS games in order to take full advantage of the bandwith. For 30FPS you will need 9,6GB of Ram in order to fully max out the memory bandwith.

What I meant was that the 6GB cards are rather expensive, and that most people seems to use 2-3GB cards(at least all I know). And you cannot put 4,8GB of data in a 2-3GB card. Therefor in every instanse where the Bandwith/desired framerate > available GPU card Ram = GPU runs out of Ram storage before the frame is complete, given that the target is to use the entire bandwith for every single frame.

[PCpower]

Did you get dropped as a child? The 288 GB/s is the TRANSFER RATE. In other words it is how fast the data can be moved from RAM or Written to RAM. It has NOTHING to do with RAM size. You could have 2 GB of GDDR5 and still have 288 GB/s bandwidth. You should stick with consoles because apparently you know little about hardware tech.

[teo72]

On a sidenote. I read on extremetech( http://www.extremetech.com/... that they find the use of next-generation a little puzzling ("It isn’t merely a CPU inside the PS4, though — it’s an APU! Bundled with the CPU, on the same die, is what Sony is calling “a next-generation Radeon” GPU. Beyond that, all we know is that the GPU has 18 compute units and is capable of 1.84 teraflops — i.e. somewhere between the Radeon 7850 and 7870. We assume that the GPU is based on AMD’s GCN architecture, but the use of “next-generation” is a little bit puzzling.")

According to vgleaks, the GPU of the PS4 APU is using the upcoming GDC 2.0 design. ( http://www.vgleaks.com/orbi... So it is definitely next gen. But more than that it is the most powerful APU that AMD has ever built ( http://www.vg247.com/2013/0...

According to vgleaks ( http://www.neogaf.com/forum... the APU's power consists of 102,4GFLOPS in the CPU and 1,84TFLOPS in the GPU. That gives the APU a grand total of 1,9424 TFLOPS. In comparison the most powerful CPU I know of is Intels Knights Corner (50 core) rated at 1 TFLOPS.( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/t... I know it is unfair to compare the PS4 APU to the Knights Corner as it does not have a GPU. All I want to point out is that this is most likely the reason of calling the next gen... and high-end for that matter. The downside of the PS4 design is obviously the lack of an dedicated GPU outside of the APU as this is very common in modern PC's. If Sony on a later date should annouce this (Very unlikely I know) then that would change everything. But the likelyhood of this happening is probably similar to the chance of being struck by lightning 7 times on the same day, as it would send the pricetag skyhigh. One can argue that an upgrade slot and a custom 3dCard on a later date would be possible. But again that would be unlikely since Consoles are Closed systems. But I for one would not mind having that upgrade option at all.

Given that the current specs of the ps4 is true, then it should specwise be comparable to a midrange PC. But that does not mean that the PS4 will not be capable of some amazing looking games. Just look at what the best looking PS3 games are capable of (Crysis 3, Killzone 3, Uncharted 2 and 3, God of war 3 and many more) Optimization is the key. Given enough time I believe the developers are going to amaze us. Only time will tell. E3 can't come fast enough...

[pissed999]

Pc is the home of innovation. Every Ps4 game shown was a PS3 game with a lick of paint.

[GamerElite]

Holy crap. This article just started World War 3 between pc and console players

[PersonMan]

Yeah, PCs are powerful, but they're still held back by the current generation consoles. Sure, you take a multi-platform game onto PC and you get better anti-aliasing, higher resolution and a smoother framerate, but the overall image looks about the same as the console version.

PCs outperform consoles... I get that. That's all well and good, but you're still playing current-gen games with current-gen graphics.

I still have yet to see a game that runs on console where the PC version is a whole generation ahead of it. Not even Crysis 3 or Battlefield 3 looks like a whole generation difference from the console version.

Prepare yourselves PC-heads, you think the hardware you have right now it's just fine, just wait until PS4 games start coming out and you won't be able to max out your PC games as easily as you used to be able to because next generation games will be way more demanding on CPU and RAM.

[SpinalRemains138]

What's the deal with pc gamers who customize their tower, instantly becoming an electronic professional?

If these same people were to change the oil and on their car and do a brake job and get a tire upgrade, are they now Dale Earnhart? Give me a break.

PC gamers, you're not a professional on an R&D team. You do not know nearly as much as they do and this is why they get the big bucks, and you chat on N4G about your Crysis settings. Plz just stop posing and deal w/ the fact that PS4 is going to be a great console.

[inFAMOUS_KRATOS]

is ignorant to try to explain something you don't understand.

as a regular game and high school drop out- i like to say this good news - i love graphical leap

-socom-

[FITgamer]

Consoles suck! I have a PC with 1.21 gigawatts of high speed ram and a top of the line flux capacitor! SO na na na na na! lol

P.S. pc gamers are lames!

[FITgamer]

I have upset the pc gamers, they will now summon their lvl 80 Keebler elves to wage war.

[CJQNSNYC]

Look.....it's great that consoles will be better than they have ever been before...but is it really necessary to continue making this comparison?

As good as the new PS4 will be, once it is released, it's specs are set in stone. That's okay for console gamers who don't want to buy new parts every so often, but it isn't the same as a pc which can be upgraded time and again as tech improves.

Everything in a pc can be upgraded...every single part of it.....built to your own personal specs and desires. Color it any way you choose, a machine that's locked in place, remaining that way for years to come, can not be compared by the same standards....and they really shouldn't be.

They aren't meant to be the same...so why continue this argument?

[PCpower]

I like how you consolers say we PC guys are just parts installers. Well I am actually a programmer and I can tell you that software written for the PC x86 processors are 100% optimized when written in C++/C using Intel's Composer XE Studio: http://software.intel.com/e... to compile C/C++ code. Anyone who can program worth a damn uses Intel's compiler to take full advantage of their CPU's. Many games for PC's are compiled with Intel's compiler suites of software.

Finally, I can write an OpenCL program that gets to use 100% of my video card using AMD's APP SDK 2.8 http://developer.amd.com/to... . You consolers really do not know what you are talking about. I get paid to program on PC's and so I think it would be quite foolish to argue against me because you do not make $95,000 a year like I do as a programmer. Guys it's like you trying to argue against a car mechanic who has been working on cars for years and really DOES know what the problem is that YOU do not, else why would you bring the car to the mechanic in the first place?

Here is some advice that I was told by my late father who passed recently: "Son, stick with what you know or else you will be the fool that everyone laughs at". You consolers are being fools when you act like you know about PC hardware or programming. Leave the PC tech stuff to the professionals who get paid to program on it. Cya..

[turgore]

Its not huge. Laptops have had 8gb of ram for years. Modern desktops can have 12 or even 16, and in a few years this shall be the norm.
Sony is smart for using GDDR5 tho !

[landog]

stop comparing ps4 to pc, it'll be easier on everyones ego's.....lol

ps4 is gonna be great, pc's are great right now, enough said

[one2thr]

Im going to jump straight to the point....

8Gb of GDDR5 Ram, most likely to be used up by the GPU (more than likely)...

*Gpu* working with Ram and graphics rendering(job easy)....

Arm processor managing OS(not sure how well it will work with GDDR5 ram, but I assume it will work very well)....

*Arm* working on OS and other OS based Feature(s)...

Cpu managing/working on Physics and A.I. etc (not having to worry about doing multiple jobs that AREN'T game related such as OS features)....

*Cpu* will more than likely not be needed for small task such a OS based features, and will strictly work on number crunching for mentioned physics and A.I., etc. In a sense of being "pure" and not tainted by OS task....

Even if there's a high latency between GDDR5 and CPU it doesnt change the fact that the "Arm" cant act as an "Accelerator"(even if its a small boost) seeing that it may have more than enough juice to manage the OS and its many features....

Which in a way makes the PS4 an even better/bigger beast, if you think about it....

[valanceer]

Oh Snap! PC Gamers are getting up in a roar over this... go back to your mothers basement/attics and play your crappy WOW

[Tito08]

All I know is that the games that I like & that I want to play are on consoles, not PCs, so in a way, f$%k PC specs!!

[StrawberryDiesel420]

@ Decrypt, nice stealth trolling there.

[worldwidegaming]

You will only notice latency if you have something to compare it to.
Using The PC is no good. Why? The o/s is a power hog, too many variables.
Once we get microsoft's offering and a multiplatform game we can compare.
I honestly think its gonna work out well and the only reason why you would own
A console is for exclusives.

[zbg31610]

@PCpower

So pc game developers are just as good at optimizing their game? Oh no wait, they are better at it because they are optimizing their games for specs for thousands of different spec combinations.

And since pc game developers are so good at optimizing, that is why ps3 games like killzone uncharted and the last of us look better than a large number of pc games.

My entire assertion has been ignorant, but that was simply because I was just going along with your ignorance. You aren't even using optimization in the correct context. Your saying you can create something that takes the entire card to run so it is well optimized. Well we all know how much it takes to run crisis...and that game is just so well optimized....

[yokokoroma]

It's irrelevant what the ram is for the PS4, as this article doesn't focus on that. Instead, it has an underlying message (as seen in the title) which is "PS4's graphics". However, the truth is (for real gamers) graphics are unimportant, as they do not make a game. As long as a game is visually presentable, and (depending on it's gaming grade) meets current level standards for visuals.(i.e. a sprite based AAA game, in a gen where 3D is standard for triple A titles, would be unacceptable) that's sufficient enough. All real gamers know what really matters is gameplay, the single thing that makes or breaks a game. It would appear developers have forgotten this, and like so many casuals are obsessed with game graphics. If that's all the PS4 is going to offer, it's going to have a short life cycle.

[THEMIGHTYDOOVDE]

Another day, another PS4 RAM article where the fanboys come crawling outta the woodwork just to show they ain't got a clue what it does or how it works!

[Mariusmssj]

just to let people know that laptops this year are going to have same kind of power as PS4 as AMD will be releasing Kaveri chipset with unified GDDR5 support.

http://www.brightsideofnews...

[zbg31610]

please, please, just go home

[josephayal]

i wan't a PS4 soo badd

[pennywhyz]

LMAO GDDR5 NOT DDR5 OMG LMFAO

[tisoyboy2]

Will be a tough choice for me. Either getting the PS4 or a new GPU. I read the memory bandwidth was around 170GB/s, shared. Thats about comparable to a 200$ card. I would need more specs. But if it will have a PC type architecture, then maybe that will boost development for the PC version. Don't like waiting 2 months to a year for a PC release.

So my choices will be either the PS4, GTX 680 or the Radeon 7970.

[tisoyboy2]

I can't remember what card they said it was comparable to. They claimed it will be an enhanced version tho. I might just get a 7970 card instead cause it is a 384-bit with 3GB GDDR5 and 280 GB/s Memory Bandwidth. I think I would be getting a lot more putting 400$ on that and keeping my PS3. Guess I will make a solid decision in 6 months or so.

[Truth]

I think all the PC fanboys are forgetting that the developers that make their games are the ones that suggested this RAM in the PS4. Not Sony, not the fans, not you, the actual developers. I think the actual people that make the games know a lot more about how to use it successfully in their games then the people who buy the best hardware and think they all of a sudden are gaming gods. Stick to what you do best, cuddling your see through rig and trying to find ways to make love to it. I'll put my faith in the people who actually make the games and suggested this to Sony.

Edit: This is to the crazed, rabbid PC fanboys who have nothing but negativity towards the PS4 and consoles in general.

[cheameup]

what annyos me is all anyone rants about is how badass the graphics are gonna be . great , another generic shooter with better graphics . great another adventure game full of QTE . I cant believe any game shoudl have QTE in it anymore

how about hardwarde that will create better experiences and ideas

[Bonerboy]

I've always been an xbox or pc guy; but this sounds promising. If only these stuffy companies (sony &MS) would let options that are available only to PC gamers like modding etc happen I would be sold without question. Pc looks like it will be outclassed, for a little while anyways, but thats how it goes with aging hardware in consoles, though the differences may not be as drastic as it was with this past gen. Its going to be an interesting future for all platforms.

Sony has finally seen reason and managed to pull their heads out of their asses, and to not try to "reinvent the wheel" again like they did with the cell is something I like as Devs are apparently loving sonys machine wihtout having to pull teeth to work with the hardware. About fucking time Sony, well played.
I just might be swayed over to their court if they have the games and innovations planned that I dig. I havent touched their consoles since the PS1. Cant wait to see what MS will bring to market. Exciting times.

This is going to be a crazy generation unlike anything we have seen before. Now if only all the amazingly retarded fanboys would stop acting like...well....amazingly retarded fanboys, and embrace it all, but thats like asking for world peace or MS and Sony to join forces.

[ichimaru]

Checked back on this section.
yep still funny

[hongthay]

I hope innovation is guaranteed, not just likely. Not in every game mind you, but would like the occasional groundbreaking game or just tool. Really want to see that thing from Media Molecule released. That looks like so much fun.