The PS4 uses hardware that you simply can’t get for your custom gaming PC.Forbes contributor Carol Pinchefsky has priced out a do-it-yourself gaming PC. That the specs are somewhere in the ballpark of the PS4.
For instance, the nVidia “Titan” GPU, which costs $1000 by itself, has just 6GB of GDDR5 RAM, and that’s still all reserved for the GPU. You’ll be hard-pressed to find any PC with GDDR5 plugged directly into the motherboard rather than sitting on the graphics card. This just isn’t how PCs work at the moment, though that will likely change. GDDR5, while suffering from slightly higher latency, offers a substantial bandwidth boost over DDR3, and given the make-up of the integrated CPU/GPU chip in the PS4 this will translate to a substantial performance boost. The PS4, on the other hand, houses an integrated CPU/GPU custom AMD chip—the “Jaguar” CPU is not available for purchase yet and the GPU side of the equation is said to be similar to AMD cards running in the $200 price-range. The secret weapon here isn’t either the 8-core CPU or the GPU, but rather how the two are paired. Both the processor and the graphics card are built into the same chip and both tap into that 8GB of DDR5 memory at once—it’s a “unified memory” setup as opposed to the system your PC uses, with the CPU utilizing your DDR3 system memory and your GPU harnessing the more robust GDDR5. What does this mean? Basically it means that the two chips will be able to communicate with one another much faster and more efficiently than in a traditional PC set-up. Combine this with the high-bandwidth GDDR5 memory and the fact that much of the traditional CPU tasks will be offloaded to the GPU, and you have a machine that you simply cannot compare to a modern PC. basically the ps4 is better and more efficient for doing graphically advanced games now than the regular pc with off the shelf parts available at the moment. it doesnt matter how many video cards and ddr3 ram you cram in your pc, the ps4 can outdo it in a lot of situations. the ps4 is not only more convenient to spectate your mates, help them play a game, stream videos to the internet, cross chat with ps4 from my mobile phone or another ps4, its better than any gaming pc for technologically advance video games. ps4 is my pick because i dont have to deal with BSOD, steam, origin, uplay not loading so i can play my games. no risk of viruses to corrupt my games and all sorts i have to deal with when gaming on a pc. the matey did say deep down is running on ps4 http://www.youtube.com/watc... buying ps4 day one
Which means capcom is not lying about deep down, the guy came on stage and stated clearly its running on PS4 but lots of people from PC gamers to even playstation gamers cannot see how that is possible lol. Cant wait until E3
hmm i also dont think deep down was actually running on the ps4. for starters i dont trust a word that comes out of capcoms mouth unless its "we like to screw over our customers with locked content and the sorts" + it looked way too scripted and pre rendered. but if its real thats awesome.
Finally an article that explains it really well ... Thanks Forbes for making this article. Bottom line is ... it's not even about building a beastly rig for as cheap as dirt or $$$$ but its about the games. Sequel/Prequel of Killzone, Uncharted, Final Fantasy, Ratchet and Clank, Metal Gear Solid, Starhawk, Gran Turismo, Last of Us and so many more exclusive Playstation 4 games that I'm totally hyped/excited about ... and these exclusive games will never be released/available on PC. So whats the point of having a beastly PC when you don't have anything exciting to play on except some selected multiplats (which will be releasing on consoles anyway).
Actually only PC fanboys not believe that this running on PS4 i am 100% sure
" the guy came on stage and stated clearly its running on PS4" exactly 100% THEY DID NOT LIE, Some Gamer's WERE JUST NOT PAYING ATTENTION!!!! They Said Running on PS4 "Prototype" hardware keyword is "Prototype" its still PS4 hardware!
Here comes the expert trolls, Simple the PS4 its not trully more higher end than a PC cause all the games are made from PC, the consoles will always be inferior to pcs, now shut up and let me take your money. PS4 its a great console, so far, but as long everything its build on a PC we have no ground to say its better than it.
I suggest Trollers to go built they're own PS4 and good luck with it. Btw Great read.
"Sequel/Prequel of Killzone, Uncharted, Final Fantasy, Ratchet and Clank, Metal Gear Solid, Starhawk, Gran Turismo, Last of Us and so many more exclusive Playstation 4 games that I'm totally hyped/excited about ... and these exclusive games will never be released/available on PC. " Lol! Please PC gaming slaughters what is consoles!!
Poor article. AWFUL title. No, you cannot build a PC exactly the same as PS4. But to suggest that top end PC hardware is disadvantaged against PS4 hardware wise...sheesh. For example the article actually downplays the idea of 6GB GDDR5 video memory on a Titan graphics card, as if PS4 has more. How does it? That 6GB of GDDR5 on Titan is dedicated. Just for video memory. When PS4 is running with its OS overhead it might have 6-7GB of memory for the whole system. Shared. No PS4 game will use 6GB of memory just for video. Maybe 3-4 tops because for system use you can expect a rough but not exact 50/50 split in video/system memory requirements. Cheaper cards have 3-4Gb of video memory on them now. PC has system memory in addition, which is typically DDR3 and lower latency than GDDR5- that is useful for a CPU. Latency matters for CPUs. Adding raw bandwidth at the cost of latency nets no real gain in general CPU performance. You can easily dump 8GB+ low latency system memory on a PC motherboard, and have huge bandwidth video memory on the graphics card. Best of both worlds. Titan also has a ridiculous amount of memory bandwidth, like 100GB/s+ more than PS4. Cheaper cards also have similar levels. But yet again, this amount on Titan is dedicated, utterly and completely for video purposes. PS3 has to SHARE less, between all the processors onboard. A good modern PC CPU can add another 20GB/s+ dedicated for the CPU. Titan is hugely overpriced for its actual performance right now (25 percent faster than say 7970 gigahertz, 3 times as expensive), because it is a premium part. That level of performance or close to it at least WON'T be such a huge price by the time PS4 launches in all territories. "Again, what Sony has done with the PS4 is something that PC builders simply cannot do yet"- referring to an APU design. Ummm...PC has had APU designs for well over a year now. The point WHY they aren't in high end PC gaming machines is that it is still much much faster to have separate dies connected by a bus even if that bus doesn't have great latency. The latency gains of two smaller chips on the same die absolutely does not make up for the potential of two much larger, individually faster chips connected by a PCIe bus. It helps, but its not a magic bullet! No consoles don't need Windows. But then consoles can't really function as you everyday PC you probably need/want to use either. Going into the price side is the most dangerous aspect of this article. We aren't absolutely certain of the machine's pricepoint. I have read estimates anywhere from $299, up to $599. Not only that, there has been A LOT of talk about potential increase in the cost of console games, which surely makes sense. PS4 will no doubt be able to outperform a comparably priced PC on games when it launches but if the games are considerably more expensive and you end up buying legacy titles again you want because there is literally no backwards compatibility then it could quickly wipe out whatever you might save on the hardware. There is much debate over this, but in my opinion the article is of very poor quality and my post here is more useful and accurate....
I didn't believe it coming in, but the article makes good points.
Deep down had to be running on the ps4 even the on screen HUD looks decent though they can simulate that but I doubt that they did
You can build a PC but can your PC build games? - Tenko point is, I want an awesome experience overall and that includes the graphics and exclusive game library.
Show me maya running on a ps4 that can compare to my work station lol. This is funny and that article only convinced fanboys.
the fact that they're even comparable is enough for me to choose Ps3 simply for the great first party games were gonna be seeing. Also no hacks, viruses, mouse users. Great
And here we go again. Read the article again (yes, you, Vulcan). He never said that it will top a state of the art top level PC. He never said that APUs have never done before (he clearly pointed out it's widely used in mobile and PCs have APUs for a while now). He simple points out that with that specific architecture you do not have to follow the path of the PC; with one most important factor: no PCIe and the close relation ship of GPU and CPU which you simply don't have on the PC (yet). It's not a PC. It's not running a windows OS and it does not have the limitations what a (stock) OpenGL or DirectX API enforces. Simple. No matter if it uses the same parts or not. Will it ever beat a Titan and 8 core I7, ever? No, probably not. But it allows you to address issues in a way a PC (running a current desktop OS) cannot. How is this so hard to accept? And for the same bang (right now) you can't build a machine which performs and costs the same. One more note: I think (and hope) that AMD, riding this wave, will release a 4+ Core APU with a faster GPU (79xx) and GDDR on the MOBO. I am waiting for that, actually. I want just that. Just so there is no confusion. It would be a great asset; and still limited by the stupid win API ;) But it's on my bucket list as a companion for the PS4.
Am I the only one concerned about overheating on an "All In One" chip?
PC sissies are mad that video game publishers troll them all the time.
@Ju: Article title: You Can't Build A PS4: Why Sony's Next Console Is Truly Next-Gen And Your PC Isn't. PC doesn't have generations as such, but already has hardware that far surpasses PS4. The title is misleading. Strike 1. The cost evaluations are based on unknown factors, and conveniently overlook other important aspects. Strike 2. "Titan.....has just 6GB of GDDR5 RAM" Just? JUST? Infers such an amount is trivial. PS4 won't even be able to call upon such an amount dedicated to video in games as I said! Strike 3. "GDDR5.......in the PS4 this will translate to a substantial performance boost." Boost? Over what? This suggests he was talking about a baseline example, a comparison if you will to a PC with DDR3 system memory. He only mentioned Titan, and Titan has faster memory and more bandwidth. So it isn't a boost over that. He means the CPU, which is what he is inferring gets a boost from GDDR5. No, it doesn't really. GDDR5 sucks bad for CPU memory. Cache is included in CPUs to avoid bad latency from system memory, that is low latency memory let alone GDDR5! Latency (to main memory) would pretty much cancel out bandwidth gains, as I said. Sony's reasons for unifying this is simplicity and cost and supply chain and manufacturing etc. Not performance over having lower latency for the CPU. He can't even understand why it would be chosen as such, as a compromise. I could go on dismantling the article just for you Ju, but why bother. It is fundamentally defective.
N4G was: Xbox fanboys against Playstation fanboys. Now N4G is: PC gamers try hard but without success to explain to Playstation fanboys, why the PS4 will not outperform last years high end PCs...
not to mention the low level access that devs have on the processor.
Looking top upgrade to Haswell/Maxwell next year, as I'm going over my brainstorm for the next big upgrade, I'll probably sell this PC for 700-800 bucks, minus the hard drive. Now, witth that said above, I'm going to pick up a PS4 pre-order the minute it goes live, I've got my phone with an alert that will tell me when, from Amazon and it's logged into Amazon too, so I can make that instant buy. 500 bucks is my budget. Make it happen, Sony. Sincerely, a PC gamer.
Now that's dedication.
I'm in the process of job searching so I don't miss out day one. Nobody else is going to buy me a damn PS4.
PS4 makes people smarter and more ambitious!
@xursz hmm, so you were just planning on staying unemployed if the PS4 wasn't being released??? says more about your life, than your eagerness for PS4.
Yes, because you know about his life.../s
Gaming rigs can be alot of fun and with upgrades the sky is the limit. The reason I switched to consoles was no time/ money to keep up with pc gaming. Consoles have limits but let the developers find it I just want pay and play. Therefore ps4 compared to a 1000 dollar pc = great value to me ... Or whatever a comparable pc goes for plus upgrading virus, hardware, etc is annoying unless you have time to really get into it. Then itcan be fun.
what a load of rubbish. You could say a similar thing about any past console of the time but look how things turned out. A high end PC of today is far beyond the capabilities of a ps4. The architecture of how the ps4 is configured will only take it so far. 8GB of GDDR 5 unified memory is the only thing respectable in the ps4 specs. Both the CPU and likely GPU of the ps4 at a pc level are considered below mid range and that is just today. When the ps4 is actually released pc technology would of evolved even further. The reality is no console will ever surpass a high end PC and any one with common sense knows this. You buy a ps4 for its games, its services , ease of use and because its a playstation its that simple.
I agree PCs are and always be more powerful than consoles but tell me one thing, where are the PC exclusives? so far multi platform games like crysis 3 and far cry 3 are the only games that are actually giving expensive PCs a run for its money, but games like GoW, Uncharted, Last of us, Gran Turismo wont be seeing the light on PCs which is a shame because those games have stunning graphics but the PCs will never get the chance to run them, so basically you will be paying thousands of dollars just to play a few games that might look slightly better in the long run which in my opinion just sucks, because it will take atleast two years to get to that point or even more.
And one more thing when you compare specs for specs you will see one thing. No PC built with PS3 specs could run a game like The Last of Us on 512mb of RAM. So when did we forget all of the sudden what happened last gen and start comparing the PS4 CPU and GPU to a standard PC?
Yes a high end PC will always far beyond the capabilities of a PS4 and any other console. But how much are you paying for that high end PC? $1000? $1500? or $2000? Thats the problem with you PC gamers who bashes consoles. Everyone with a freakin brain knows that a High end PC is better then any console out there, but at what cost? People are already complaining about the PS3 being too expensive, if Sony were to built a console that is equal to a high end PC how much would it cost? I use to play PC games but constant upgrading just to simply enjoy a game got to me. I bought a console to enjoy hassle free of making sure that i have the correct spec to play a game.
@kayoss How much are you willing to pay for console games? $60, probably $70 for the next gen? I have made back all the money I put into my PC though the sales of PC game. I haven't paid more than $15 for AAA games in years. As of late, prices are getting even better with online moogle like Amazon trying to to compete with Steam and such. Most new games that you preorder on console maybe have a 10 dollar drop in price for incentive, but with most PC preorders, if you do some searching, can be netted in for $30 dollars. So yay, have fun paying extra money for the console version cause Sony, MS, and Nintendo want their part of the cash. Oh yeah, we PC gamer have a tendency to 'UPGRADE' when new tech comes out instead of dropping another half a G on a new console or rig, so the hit on our finances are probably easier to absorb. I love my Playstation, but I don't like the money grabbers behind the company.
There is actually one exclusive for the PC, and the irony is, it's from SOE: PlanetSide2. But, this might just run perfect on the PS4. Hope they'll release it there, too.
@Chinkyinc18 that game price argument is old and nonsense. New pc games are retailing at the exact same price as consoles. How much will crysis 3 be? 60$. They have announced ps4 games would stay 60 or less but your going to try to say 70. All games have sales when you go to amazon and other sites. Plus on your pc can you get used games or gamefly. Everyone can hold out to buy games until they are on sale.
@wsoutlaw87 I've never seen a game on console drop past $20 on sale. Those same games on sale for $20 drop as low as $5 on Steam and Amazon on a regular basis. I didn't say that console games don't go on sale, but they can never match the sale prices of their PC counterpart. Plus, games stores don't have daily deals or weekend deals or free weekends, so on, so on. Why by used when I can get new for cheaper?
As much as i like the PS4! I Think PC is also and the top next gen! I have a 500 euro PC and i can play Crysis 3 on max (looks as good as the gameplay trailer from KZ) and whats great about PC, is that PC games are cheaper than console games! And i also think PS4 will be the only console that will not hold PC back...
True but pc wont play the cool ps4 exclusives!
Ok so for 500 euros you have something similar to the PS4. Then why not buy a PS4 when it will likely be around the same price? And then you can play Crysis 3 and you can play all the PS4 exclusives on top and you can have the seamless connectivity. No steam, no origin, no uplay. One network where all your friends are and you can message no matter what game they are playing? Simply just a box for roughly the same price as your PC roughly the same graphics but play games and offers a dozens of services that are based JUST around games. What is so wrong with having a system that is dedicated to gaming?
@Gumtrol it's always nice having a Sony console for their 1st party exclusives and for the console games that don't make it to pc like Red Dead Redemption . I've mainly been a console gamer myself but Pcs are best for multiplats 1. You'll never have to worry about backwards compatibility 2. You can mod games to extend them/ make them look better,.. Change things you can't on a locked down console 3. Games can be found cheaper and it's cheaper overall to do pc gaming 4. Pcs do everything no restrictions.. You can play wii games, snes games, dreamcast games, PS2 games etc all the systems except ps3,xbox 360 and 3DS are playable through emulation.. Overall it's cheaper in the long run.. You buy an 800$ pc and you might have to upgrade it after 6-7 years to keep up just like a console but that upgrade doesn't have to cost you big bucks, maybe 300$ max to pull off better performance than upcoming consoles. plus it's an all in one device.. Movies, games, work, surfing the Web..whatever you want.. Where as consoles once theyre old...they are old all you have it for is a blu ray player/ old game player and a Web surfer.
Ya but you will upgrade that low end pc ,, guaranteed. It will be outdated in 2 years max. Then what? Ive nothing against pc gaming its fun but dont tell me its cheaper
Well said. lots of thorough insight and legit facts and information.
Bubble for you o.o
I agree completely. P.S. great copy and paste job. (Just compare the last big paragraph with the first 4; notice the difference is grammar). Next time, please put quotes around the sections you've copied and pasted from the article in question to avoid people thinking that the comment is your own. Thanks.
I like how you copied the entire article http://www.forbes.com/sites... And got ''Well Said'' bubbles by it.. ____ Also, since when has RAM become so super important? Your acting like RAM is the most important factor in a videocard. "For instance, the nVidia “Titan” GPU, which costs $1000 by itself, has just 6GB of GDDR5 RAM, and that’s still all reserved for the GPU" That doesnt mean a thing.. Get educated. Seriously. The PS4 is a good system! An amazing system even. But people are obsessing with the 'RAM' part. While they have no clue what they are even talking about.
Remember, Ram makes graphics better! /s "8 Gb GDDR5" has become the new "The Power of the Cell" and most people spouting it don't even know what it means.
What? You guys hurt because you can't say "mine is bigger" for once?
I hope your joking? The GTX Titan has 6gb GDDR5 RAM dedicated entirely to the gpu. The PS4 has to share 8gb between cpu and gpu. Most computers now have 16gb DDR3 ram just for the cpu alone at 1600mhz and upwards speed. Memory isn't the most important thing with graphics cards. The speed of the gpu is. The PS4 gpu is equivalent to a GTX 660 in speed at 1.84 teraflops single precision. The GTX Titan is 4.5 teraflops single precision and the GTX 680 is 2.5. Also, the cpu in the PS4 is poor in comparison to the i7. Probably will run at 3.2ghz whereas on a pc, unlocked i7s can be overclocked to over 5ghz. Not to mention that on PC, you could have three GTX Titans on the same motherboard. The PS4 is good for a console but it can't touch what modern high end pcs are capable of. Though if it releases for 500 euro, its still a very good deal and its games and online features will be its primary attraction.
I wonder how much all that cost?
Here's how to make put it simple. You can't buil a PS4 because the hardware is highly optimized and also you can't buy 8Gb DDR5. Also you can't have PS4 "EXCLUSIVE" games on the PC.
mmmmmm im sure most of the pc gamers was saying that their point was that you can build a pc as powerful as an ps4. Then you can guess what happened everybody know its good tech but people arent giving credit where credit is due that the ps4 is basically a pc. and we know their devs gonna sweeze da life out of the ps4 like they did ps3. i never read a pc gamer bash da ps4 just correcting misunderstanding that people have about the way these gfx cards well work with it Check Trundra post ever since announcement alot of these posts even when the say "but im not to sure" the get bashed im a ps3 fan 2 but its well known consoles can hang wit pc when it comes to gfx and game prices its gonna hang in there at 1st tho
^ Something most people will never realize is that consoles may use weaker hardware but the hardware in console have a massive focus since its dedicated and they pull serious power from it. On a PC the hardware is never fully optimized because its not dedicated and that mean the efficiency rate is bad and most of the power is wasted.
Optimization means **** all at best. The 360 and Ps3 still haven't beat a 8800GTX. Even with 7 years of 'optimization'. Ram means even less than **** all. Going from 4-8 gigs will NOT improve games. Again...Sony would not need more than 4 gigs for the hardware they are putting in. Ever.
*sigh* First and foremost, you'll never use over 4 GB of VRAM running a video game. The PS4 probably won't even use 3GBs ever since the GPU is a mid ranged one. You can't stack on AA, AF, high res (over 1080p) like a fully decked out card or an SLI set up because the GPU will choke trying to run everything. Bandwidth and capacity don't mean anything if the GPU can't process the information given fast enough. Secondly, GDDR5 doesn't do anything for the CPU. Why do you think it's not even out yet for PCs? No one needs it at all. DDR3 possesses a memory bandwidth more than adequate enough so that the CPU doesn't hit the bandwidth cap. It hardly ever does, especially running a video game. You'll see no gains when the CPU uses GDDR5 in comparison to DDR3. Lastly, optimization is wonderful but it doesn't mean developers have magic. KZ4 looks absolutely boss but its running at 30fps. Why you say? Because the graphics card isn't powerful enough to give a smooth experience at 60fps. The boon to the PS4 is that I get a console that is a mainstream device, I can play with my friends and I have access to the cool exclusives that Sony dishes out. Now I know why people spend so much money in marketing. I don't even have a gaming PC but jesus, there's more to a computer than RAM.
and this is what pc gamers been saying over the last few days and got bashed even giving credit it makes us look bad to be ps fans when we cant be humble.
@Tundra I tried to educate consolers about these facts too, but they seem to like to remain blind to facts. Like if you google PCIE 3.0 vs 2.0 for gaming then they will see that even at a the slower 2.0 PCIE buss, the game frames per second do not change for video cards that are PCEI 3.0 capable. Also, if they bother to google CPU ram bandwidth vs performance, then they would see that CPU's gain zero benefit from higher bandwidth ram. It is low latency that matters the most for CPU's. They also do not understand that the RAM on video cards is only for texture render storage for rendering on screens. You only need like 1.5 GB of Vram to render on a 1920*1080P screen. Higher GB is for muli-screen setups or resolutions approaching 4K. That is assuming of course that the GPU can even render such a large frame without a major performance hit. ......sigh....Just let them be ignorant of PC tech...They are consolers...Consolers just need to stick with their consoles and leave the PC crowd alone.
Another thing people tend to forget is that we can adjust the graphics settings on PC to encompass that 60fps mark if our cards our powerful enough. On the PS4 it'll be up to the developers and most of them will likely flock to the 30fps mark... My 680 (2gb) gets a solid 60fps (vsync) on 64 player maps in BF3 on ultra while a reference 7850 max's out at a whooping 35-40. I'm not boasting at all but trying to make an example that the tech in the PS4 isn't pushing the boundries at all... the only thing that's even impressive about it is that 8gigs of GDDR5 which even then is complete overkill given the specs. Now if they change it up and put either a 7950 or 7970 in it then I would be more impressed but right now a 7850 is a entry level card and nothing worth bragging about even with whatever architecture they use with it.
I dont know how many times i done seen you on here man, its a fucking shame you spend alot of time on this website but you do know your stuff...sometimes
Good job for copying half the article into your post to make it look like you know what your talking about
intelligent talk here and PC fanboys will not accept it! no wonder that this game looked way ahead anything.. "KZSF" bubbles ;)
holy crap that sounds awesome!!!!
Well said. Initial launch games are hard to judge, eapecially right now because i doubt their dev kits are even indicative of the final product. Wait til someone has time with it to make it really run, maximizing its benefits. Didnt one developer say that he didnt even know there was gonna b 8 gb, thought it would be 4. But they do need some games for launch. Guerilla and sucker luch, coupled with naughty dog, sony santa monica, media molecule for first party, capcom, ubisoft, activision, EA etc. Will be able to provide us with enough great games to keep us interested for the first 2 yrs while developers begin to dig into this machine. But, it wont be until 2015 that we begin to see what it can really do. This is fine because so many great developers will habe a much easier time putting games on this system. Amd pc gamers should be happy because now developers can spend more time on their game and less figuring out how to make a worthy version for alien cell hardware.
Yeah this ps4 is a Mean Machine .
I believe those games could have all been running on the PS4. Why? Because even though all of it looked great there was nothing shown that couldn't run on a current gaming PC that was shown. If anything I expect those graphics to get better by release than what was shown.
@ Dylila : I said what you just said that the PS4 hardware will be better optomised than PC hardware but I got a lot of disagrees even though Sony worked hard to make sure the hardware works best for gaming. I totally agree with you even though I do 99% of my gaming on my high end PC.
You're doing a great job hyping the PS4, I bet Sony pays you guys well. Sony fanboys will believe anything, anything!
Computer science students who have read - computer architecture and organization as there course study will either have cancer or preparing popcorn ,while reading this.
...Did... am I seeing this correct? A sony article... that... That isn't a hate article?!
Lol i first thought you where smart as fuck, but then i noticed you just copied the article xD
2 years. Graphics king will be on PC.