We need to talk about the harassment of women in the game industry

MWEB GameZone writes: "The issue of women in gaming is not a simple one, it's a many faceted and complex issue. It ranges from the misrepresentation of women in games, to the absence of female playable characters, to the lack of women in key roles in development, to online abuse, and to how female gamers are treated"

[plut0nash]

Well, male dominated industry and overall low level of intelligence in many discussions says that women are not just targets. Everyone is, companies too - MS E3 2013 launch anyone? What about when COD developers get attacked for changes in their game? In all honesty - the internet's become a place where nobody really gets respect.

[HanCilliers]

*facepalm*

[ravinash]

Nice to have an article on this subject that’s a little more well balanced and tries to express the concerns in a mature manner.

I did read the article you referred to and while it did have many important issues and extracts of people’s experience, some of the conclusions were a little...stereotypical on how men behave.
I'm glad you’re not falling into the same trap.

[creatchee]

@ravinash

I have three real life female friends who game. Two of them changed their gamertags to gender neutral names to avoid being harassed and stalked, and all three of them no longer use their microphones online because of the crap they deal with if they happen to do something as horrible as talking. Sure, saying that EVERY guy does it to them and other girls is wrong, but so is denying that there is a significant problem.

[kreate]

I think the gaming in general is great for females.

Most girl gamers i know gets a ton of attention and respect.

Especially w ps home.

Thats only my circle of ppl though.

[ravinash]

@ creatchee

I never said there isn't a problem.
In fact if you look at my comment history you’ll find I encourage discussion on the subject.

However you will find that this is a sensitive subject for many people on both sides of the fence and I was congratulating Han for her handling of the subject.

If people make sweeping statements without recognising most men are not guilty of this, then you will find that people will get defensive.

Like I said in other comments, you need to recognise and pin point the issues before you can properly face them... and that not denying there is a problem.

[creatchee]

@ravinash

I disagree when you say that most men aren't guilty of this. Any time I see a girl in an online room, things happen. Sometimes it's flirting/being cutesy. Sometimes its friend requests from strangers. Sometimes it's "hey girl, are you single?" Sometimes it's "yo, you got nudes?" Sometimes it's "go cook me dinner, bitch." But the fact is, women are treated differently than men in online gaming.

The friends that I mentioned before are like me - gamers since they were little kids. They appreciate games and strategy and coordination. They don't want to be gamer girls - they just want to be gamers. And it's hard to play a game requiring communication when guys are asking you how big your breasts are. The experience is not the same as a guy's.

That's not even to discount that other people get talked down to and such online - a lot of online gamers are trolls and disruptors. But the difference between that and being a female is that people who are being a-holes to a dude are just being a-holes to anybody they can. But when it's to a girl, most of the time it's BECAUSE she is a girl.

I can only speak from my personal experience, but I suggest that you ask girls who game how they feel and what their experiences are like. I'm pretty sure that most, if not all, will tell you about the disparity in treatment. I know that that's what I'm told.

[Question_Mark]

@creatchee
People will use anything they can to harass people.
You're fat? They'll make fun of that.
You're black? They'll make fun of that.
You're young or old? They'll make fun of that.

It's just that it's easier to identify if someone is female or not, like from their gamertag or voice, so they jump on that early and use it to be assholes.
What I'm saying is that we need to put a stop to ALL online abuse, not just the female-centric ones.

Oh, and don't generalize. You see, hear, and remember the loud and obnoxious more than any other, but that doesn't mean there're more of them.
It'd be sad if you really believe there are more crappy guys than good ones.

[creatchee]

@JaggedCarpet

I think you've said what I meant more than I could. I guess that I don't mean that most guys online are evil - it's that most girls (and others) have experienced this kind of behavior, making it seem like a lot more people are doing it. But still - nobody should have to deal with it.

[bunt-custardly]

That image is overkill as I can't imagine women coming home from a day at the studio to be greeted by their partner.

"Hello darling, another typical day at the office eh?".

[HanCilliers]

Pls insert better image here

[dc1]

I agree. The pic is very disrespectful to the physically abused.
I'm on the move so I can't get into a deep outline around this. I would hope folks would understand this.

[Mykky]

It is indeed important to talk about. The way it is done though is insanly stupid. There are so many stupid articles out there with really poor arguments and writers trying to insult gamers. It's not weird many gamers are sick of this topic.
There are few smart women in games and those who are is for the most part overly sexualized.

[CongoKyle]

Honestly there is sexism and prejudice in every industry. The difference with gaming, which makes it so severe, is that anonymity is involved in a sense that they think they can say whatever the hell they want and get away with it.

Really great article, Han, definitely a topic which needs closer investigation. My only concern is we can deal with it at an industry level but when it comes to the female gamer I think it's going to be a much harder task to eradicate :<

[HanCilliers]

anonymity is a major issue I agree. I've often wondered if someone would've said what they did if they saw me face to face.

[Clown_Syndr0me]

No we don't.

[Vantage]

This woman, her ideology, and the people who support it, have already been refuted, debunked and dismissed. This article is pure crrrap.

[Imalwaysright]

"by Han Cilliers (Lola) Posted Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:41:00 PM"

[ZoidsRaven]

Don't you know, Vantage? Those videos never happened in the feminist bubble. The only people who disagree are the thousands of bad kitchen joke trolls.

On-topic: Because I've never been called a f****t for putting the whip@$$ on someone in a fighting game over PSN, nope. /s
I'm sick of this idea that it doesn't happen to males as often or it's not that serious when it happens to males. 7_7

[pompombrum]

Being honest, the sad reality is that if women gamers want to get involved in online/competitive gaming, they're going to need a pretty thick skin. I've heard so many cringe worthy comments that it saddens me just thinking about it. I remember playing a game with a clan when we had a girl/woman join in for a session, they were joking about female t-bagging and kept yelling at her to "drop those lips" it was pretty disgusting to be fair.

Having said that though, another issue is that many female gamers generally give themselves a bad image. For every two decent female gamers I've came across, there is a "look I'm a girl and I'm gaming" attention seekers.

[Gh05t]

Mute, report, and game on!

[HanCilliers]

Can't mute a teamie really when in a comp

[Gh05t]

Han, why would you play with a teammate in a competition that disrespects you or others. That is the worse argument for taking verbal abuse I have heard. Stand up for yourself.

This is why I cant take articles like yours seriously, when you refuse to do anything legitimately about it but write articles. Articles don't SOLVE the problem. Why is there nothing in your article about how you have tried to actually solve this problem? Have you reported someone for harassment and nothing was done then let us know who didn't care that you were being harassed. Call out your harassers, light them up (civilly), let them know its not okay.

If you can write an article like this then you should have the backbone to stand up for yourself. Encourage others to stand up for those who don't have that courage and lets start shining a beacon on the people and companies who refuse to stop this kind of treatment.

P.S. Banter is a part of competition, everyone should have the opportunity to be told that the type and severity of banter is crossing the line and not acceptable before it is considered harassment.

[HanCilliers]

Really well said and so true on both counts. It's hard for men in eSports, let alone women.

The point in the article is that female gamers should not HAVE TO revert to the type of behavior which gives them a bad name, but sadly as you've stated, it happens a lot

[Keith22]

Didn't know online abuse left girls with busted faces.

[Spotie]

I didn't know they were attacked more frequently than men are online.

I really hate this pushing the idea that women go through something that men do not. That there is somehow a higher ratio or percentage of women being verbally abused than men.

Based on my experience, that's not the case at all.

Rather, it seems that it's reported more often when out happens to women. I guess because they feel they're being singled out. But online, no one is safe.

It's unfortunate, but it's something you should get used to, if you're planning to game online.

[Budobear]

I think its more to do with the reasons for the attack. As guys we get attacked for many reasons, being better than the other guy, being worse or just being there but not for being a man. Women in gaming take abuse for being a woman/girl which is a whole different kettle of sharks.

[mep69]

No we don't.

/End_Convocation

[LightDiego]

Again that?

[My_Name_BTW_Is_Dante]

Insane feminist =/= being in the game industry.

[Picnic]

That image initially looks overkill but I've read in to it. It's from an internet game called 'Beat Up Anita Sarkeesian', created by Ben Spurr, in which users could punch Sarkeesian's (a feminist, media critic and blogger) image until the screen turned red.

So it seems that she didn't choose to pose for that picture and all the injuries are superimposed on her.

It does greatly illustrate what the article is talking about in that case. Harassment of that lady by use of her image in a violent way without, presumably, permission for one thing.

[Gh05t]

There are a lot of beat them up games, I remember beat them up Presidents, Actors, and other public figures, Is it just not okay because she is female? Where is your concern for all the other stupid games that feature a male figure?

[Picnic]

When I write a post I don't have an obligation to think to express a concern about the plight of the panda, the plight of the homeless or anything else that is not directly related to what the topic is about. There was no photo of what you describe in this article. Any game in which you beat up a president or actor could be argued to be in bad taste. But generally speaking if a woman gets beaten up by a man she's often in a more frightening position than a man getting beaten up by a man or woman (not talking about children here where it can be frightening to all sexes). And the virtual depiction of that without the consent of the depicted person reveals a brutish nature.

[Gh05t]

"When I write a post I don't have an obligation to think to express a concern about the plight of the panda..."

I absolutely agree with you, however it was this statement...

"It does greatly illustrate what the article is talking about in that case."

That I was referencing since I am trying to illustrate that this is not a great example since many people have games like this made about them and somehow because shes a woman its different.

[CaptainCamper]

For lack of a better phrase, they need to man up.

How many male gamers can honestly say they've enjoyed online games without abuse? Without ridicule? Without suffering from the general toxicity of the gaming environment?

Being a female is no different. Sure, the exact nature and topic of the abuse and ridicule will differ, but it's the same for everyone.

Don't spend decades fighting to be treated the same, and then complain when it happens :D

It's the internet. Sadly it's not the place to be for those that don't have a thick skin.

[dcj0524]

Yeah, gamers who are girls need to realize that people who treat them in a disrespectful manner are A-holes. Nothing more or less.Everyone has to deal with A-holes, it's a part of life.

[Imalwaysright]

I can only speak of my experience playing online and more often than not, what I witnessed is that if a woman starts talking, men turn into disgusting horny hyenas.

Excuses like "everyone is abused online so let's just move on" to me are nothing but burying our heads in the sand and won't change anything. It shouldn't happen to anyone and it's a real issue within the gaming community. I remember a N4g member saying something along the lines that the internet isn't a license to act like dicks and I wholeheartedly agree with it.

[Gh05t]

It shouldn't happen, but it does, and we need to try to put an end to it.

What I want to know is where is the ACTION. Everyone is talking about the problem but no one is calling for specific and real action. Why are these articles not writing flame war pieces at MS, Sony, and Studios for not banning offenders after being reported.

You want to stop this than lets make a campaign, lets start advertising about reporting people, lets hold people and companies accountable, lets stop talking and start FIGHTING BACK! Lets make this a general harassment campaign which includes harassment from all sides to all genders so we can include everyone who is being harassed online.

That is why I don't like these articles. Its a bunch of complaining and that is all.

[ravinash]

"It shouldn't happen, but it does, and we need to try to put an end to it".

Agreed, but when your asking about where is the action and about making a campaign, isn't this what the article is trying to do?

It's through these article that you get discussion, and from there you get the pattern of what’s happening out there. otherwise it's all just assumption.

Once people see what’s happening, then they can start taking action.
But you can't take action if you don't have a handle on the problem.

[e-p-ayeaH]

Being harassed is part of a women´s life there´s nothing new here.

[user7402931]

stuff like this don't pop out of nowhere, did she attack him first? why is the woman always the victim? just saying. that mouth...

[FullmetalRoyale]

Lol

Do you even lift bro?

[Omnisonne]

The article has some really good points, but because of the sheer size of the internet you can't generalize the problem by gender.
Both cause and contribute to it, from severe male harassment to women who abuse gaming communities to get male attention.

All in all the internet is much like the Wild West, but 10x worse. Everyone does whatever they please without any real consequence.
In this case causing many sexually frustrated individuals or just plain morons drooling over or lashing out to whoever they got their eyes on

As for what to do about it.. bringing attention to the problem could be the best option.
But until those people actually become decent human beings, and things get too hot, its best to step away for a while. Even in the case of stalkers, the internet is not worth your life

[kevinsheeks]

"Women are the n*g*ers of gender. If you killed yourself, I wouldn't even fuck the corpse." <<< taken from the article a comment to the woman this article is about

Now look how they try to demean the user by calling her the N word comparing her to what they believe to be the lowest of low in terms of insults.

In a genre that uses aliens/dragons/magic/space/tim e-travel I have to still deal with racism

I remember getting into champions online which it's been years since I've played it so my description may vague with details about the game.

My character was basically a virtual version of me black male but with super powers. I'm fairly new to the game and I meet a nice guy whose basically explaining how stuff works. Out of nowhere another guy flies in and starts saying "look its a n*g*ers" and "hey n*g*ers" over and over

I sped away so he would leave me alone, tell me why this guy flew around chasing me the whole time still saying "it's a n*g*ers" That experience ruined the immersion for me.

And it's not like I go around loudly saying "hey I'm black" it shouldn't matter I should be able to create a character in my own likeness.

I even had to reduce the use of my mic to stop the barrage of stupid questions and insults. I can't tell you how many times I've played a co-op session in the guy ask "hey are you black?" why? does the boss have extra defense in place for black people? will we be at some sort of disadvantage? does the door explode on impact if black people enter? Oh no then shut up please.

it Isn't always like this though there are some very nice people online, just there are more jackasses.

Side-note I've been told "go back to Africa" so much I'm actually considering taking a trip now just to see what it's like so I can tell them "I've already been b$tc#"

[ravinash]

That is crap, but goes to show what some people are like.

Assuming your in the states... If they tell you to go to africa, you just tell them to go back to England (assuming their not already in England).

[kevinsheeks]

Crap It won't let me edit >.< oh well typing with no sleep and thanks ravinash nice people like you are what keeps gaming amazing

[SpiralTear]

The biggest issue that I'm seeing with the gaming feminist movement is that the loudest and most radical speakers are technically not feminists.

They are clearly uneducated in gender studies. Due to these pseudo-feminists being so outspoken, the REAL feminists who actually understand the concept don't want to be associated with them, so they distance themselves from them and the term "feminism" in general. That gives feminism and those fighting for equality a much less powerful voice compared to those who are simply out to create controversy instead of actually providing solutions to this gender harassment problem.

There's nothing wrong with discussion about how to solve a problem, but simply pushing the repair efforts onto others is no way to create a solution. It's sad, because I know real feminists who have some great ideas, but their voices are drowned out by women who are loud, yet have no idea what they're talking about.