Can we stop calling hard games the Dark Souls of whatever?

This seriously needs to stop.

[kdmitchell_toh]

Oh man, this on so many levels. If it's hard, it's automatically the Dark Souls of this genre. Hell, gamers of today simply don't have access or play games like ones from back in the day. If Dark Souls was hard, I'd hate to see someone play Mega Man 1 or even Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles on the NES.

[ZeroX9876]

Ghosts 'n Goblins on nes.....

Lots of nes games would be way too hard for lots of today's gamers out there. Even when looking at Snes/PS1 games, most of the time there wasn't any "indicator" as to where to go all the time. You had to figure it out and not just follow the way point to the next step.

[frostypants]

Ghosts n Goblins or Ghouls n Ghosts on ANY platform. Those f'ing games...so fun, yet so damn hard.

[iDadio]

Exactly, people have got way to used to being spoon fed. If your idea of a hard game is Dark Souls then I'm afraid the problem might just be bad players.

Take Cuphead, sure it can be hard but it isnt THAT hard.

[Why o why]

To the guys above

Shout out to those who remember 'playing' ghouls and ghosts and ghosts and goblins. . .

Zero hand holding very unforgiving

[CorndogBurglar]

Haha, right? Gamers that weren't around back in the NES days just don'g realize how much hand holding goes into games these days.

TMNT
Ghosts N Goblins
Ninja Gaiden
Mega Man
Castlevania 2

Most games back then gave you 3 lives and 3 continues to beat the game. If you couldn't do that then too bad, start over from the beginning.

And then there were the games that thought they were being cute by making the last level a boss gauntlet where you had to fight all the bosses one after another, plus the end game boss for the first time.

Kids these days....

[UltraNova]

Agreed, but back in the day devs had to increase their games longetivity and their relevance/exposure as a result by any means necessary- usually by making their games near unbeatable thus gaining 'time'.

Games today have the luxury called the internet to help them gain awareness and longetivity via word of mouth, reviews, blogs, youtube, streaming and ads. So making a very challenging game today is not the most financialy sound plan, untill Demon's/DS exploded into the scene and proved that a certain group of gamers craved some challenge. Then DS became an RPG sub-gerne on its own.

This is why DS is my all time favorite IP, because it broke the hand holding mould right when I was getting fed up with gaming. It literally re-ignited my passion for games after 20+ years of gaming.

My only hope is that From Soft or some dev out there continue this type of games and still find ways to innovate through them.

[Fist4achin]

That's awesome. I remember trying contra again and again without the infamous code...

[frostypants]

I loved Castlevania 2 but it bordered on unfair...there were parts that were virtually impossible to figure out if you didn't have a guide (or knew someone who did). And back then, no internet to rely on...

[nitus10]

You forgot Battletoads. That game was IMHO totally unfair.

[jjb1981]

Megaman is a great example because you can kill an enemy that was already hard to kill, walk backwards a little bit and it would just respawn and kill you. Ninja Gaiden for Nintendo was ridiculously hard too. Trying to play Ninja Turtles with Raphael was suicide.

[stuna1]

Can't forget Contra.

[ziggurcat]

I would liken Cuphead to Contra more than I would ever compare it with the souls series.

[TheFirstClassic]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was the Dark Souls of the NES

[dillydadally]

To be honest, I've never thought that Dark Souls was even that hard. I feel like people confuse "hard" with "punishing". Dark Souls is one of the most "punishing" games I've ever played, not one of the hardest. I've played a lot of harder games, just not many that screw me over so bad for failing and make me want to pull my eyebrow hairs out as a result.

[TheVetOfGaming]

Uncharted 4 on crushing had me raging. Not throwing a controller raging, because I understand values and I'm not an angry person. But you're right: old school games were far harder than today's.

[3-4-5]

Go play Robocop 3 for SNES. Splatter Punks will destroy you. Good luck getting based stage 3.

Way harder than Dark Souls.

[Fist4achin]

Wow. This is the Dark Souls of requests.

[InTheZoneAC]

The bloodborne of complaints in this article...

[Prince_TFK]

I'm cool with having hard genre of game be called "dark soul like". I mean we have "rougelike" and the like, so why is one more unacceptable?

[CorndogBurglar]

Because Roguelike isn't named after a game.

Dark Souls Like makes it sound like it would be a Dark Souls style game. There's a big difference.

[Prince_TFK]

Actually you are wrong. Rogue is a game. Below is a quote from Wiki:

"Rogue is a dungeon crawling video game by Michael Toy and Glenn Wichman and later contributions by Ken Arnold. Rogue was originally developed around 1980 for Unix-based mainframe systems as a freely-distributed executable."

[Paytaa]

Yet we've been calling certain sidescrollers "metroidvania" for years

[KwietStorm_BLM]

@Paytaa

Metroid and Castlevania more or less created that style of side scrollers. Dark Souls did not create difficult games, and the franchise isn't even as hard as the media makes it out to be.

[Paytaa]

@KwietStorm I agree with that but what I was implying was that the term "Souls-like" is appropriate as a description term when talking a specific kind of ARPG.

Games like Nioh, Lords of the Fallen, and The Surge would not be designed the way they are without the foundation Demons Souls set

[CorndogBurglar]

I stand corrected, good sir.

[EatCrow]

Rogue is no where near as recognizable as a game as it is ...the definition of the word.

Therefore not anywhere near as relevant and what corndog suggests is very accurate.

[Elda]

Especially if the game doesn't play like Dark Souls.

[InTheZoneAC]

The point isn't about in game similarities...

[Elda]

Again if it doesn't play like DS folks need to stop saying...."it's hard like DS" though the game is hard but it doesn't play like DS.It doesn't make any sense.

[isarai]

Its a little anoying but it sets a very accurate expectation for how the game approaches difficulty. The other reason its said so often is the souls series came in a time where games were just too damn easy for years with so much hanholding it was insulting, the souls series single handedly brought difficulty back to gaming. I just dont get why it would bother you so much?

[Cyro]

Exactly.

Dark Souls is famous for being a hard game even if you never played a Souls game before. Yes. there were hard games back in the day but no one is going to say something like this game is Megaman 1 hard.

[UltraNova]

No, DS is not hard as in unfair just like games like Megaman 1 were. DS is challenging but FAIR and rewarding to those who perserver and overcome it's hurdles. Megaman 1 was a near exercise in insanity. Thats the difference.

[madforaday]

The game isn't hard, that is the most frustration thing to hear about these articles. The developers made this game rewarding when you beat an enemy, found a shortcut or a boss. Of course, there was some exceptions but very seldom I had a game where the SP mechanics was rewarding. I am not talking about the SP story. For an example, The Last Of us SP story was rewarding after you beat it because it was great but it took you all the way to the end for it to happen. Try picturing a section in a game you played multiple times where after you beat a mob or a hard enemy you felt good? The only times that happen is ramping up the difficulty to make it rewarding. The fact that Dark Souls or Bloodborne doesn't have their own difficulty. It is what you see is what you get. Soulsborne series tell you how to the play game, they show in so many different ways that other games don't. In most games they will tell you in text what you need to do to move forward. In Bloodborne, you have Father G to teach you parrys. Of course, you can beat him without parrying him but once you learn to parry him well, he is one of the easier bosses to fight. The game isn't hard they just don't tell you what you need to do. That is why you have so many different stories from these games because everyone experiences them differently. I am sure we all played COD 4 when it came out and we all beat the SP game and it was good. We all have the same experience from it because the developer don't give us a reason to be us. It is a more controlled SP story.

[Rippcity]

@Ultra I disagree that there is a difference. I'm a huge fan of the old Megaman games and they are equally as rewarding as any Souls like game. In Dark Souls, you're rewarded for understanding enemy patterns and knowing where enemies spawn, just like in Megaman. Yes, I will admit some of the platforming mechanics in Megaman can be very unforgiving but that can still be avoided by carefully timed jumps.

To the point of the article, I agree. Saying games are souls like is just saying they are challenging. No need to attach souls to everything and it's not like DS was the first ever challenging game.

[pyroxxx]

Actually this has more in common with DKS than you think,.. pattern recognition gameplay

[Perjoss]

This is the Tony Hawks 5 of articles

[V0LT]

Dark Souls actually isn't that hard..

[OC_MurphysLaw]

My answer to this articles request......YES please. Dark Souls is a great series but I think its referenced far too often as a comparison across way too many games. Also the DS Formula really isn't unique to DS... was around well before that game came about.

[Mr Lahey]

"the DS Formula really isn't unique to DS... was around well before that game came about."

Do you have any example of soulslike games before demon's souls?

[Rachel_Alucard]

Play any kings field games or shadow tower Abyss. Those were the original games Dark souls derived from however they were in First person and ofc they look very dated but the concept was the same as what they made in the souls series. Also check out Ever grace and Eternal Ring

[OC_MurphysLaw]

Sure, First off Demon Souls really should be the game getting credit here not Dark Souls since that was the game that really re-inspired this kind of gameplay in modern (PS3/PS4 era games) but really these games were taking a que from Kings Field games as they were the ones that first brought about the idea of unforgiving difficulty yet rewarding puzzle solving and exploration around an RPG like element.

[Big_Game_Hunters]

People like to have excuses as to why they suck at games. Saying somthing is like dark souls makes people think that its trendy and cool to be bad at a game.

[InTheZoneAC]

Don't overthink it

[zombiewombie]

This article goes so hard on this. Its like the dark souls of articles!

[TheColbertinator]

Gaming media doesn't know anything. Demons Souls was actually tougher than Dark Souls.

[Chaosdreams]

I'll admit, it's gotten out of hand. If a game is going to be compared to Dark Souls, then it can't simply be in regards to difficulty level. It needs to share a lot of similar mechanics or design philosophy (Recent example being: The Surge).

[PlayableGamez-]

Yes I am on board with that.

[roadkillers]

This article is the Dark Souls of "Dark Souls to understand"

[LordofYogurt]

Dark Souls isn’t even hard lol.

[XStation4pio_Pro]

Seriously.

[Bobafret]

The Souls series isn't that hard if you don't rush ahead foolishly hacking and slashing.

[inxine]

Its ridiculous how many ppl compare hard games with dark souls, guess wat, there have beem really hard games out before dark souls was even a thing xD

[Warshade]

The souls series has ended so we need a new term for nintendo hard games that come out now. How bout Hardcore... oh wait... I'm crazy!

[ziggurcat]

"The souls series has ended..."

for now. not for good - they never really said that it was the end of the souls games forever. plus, there's still bloodborne, which I don't believe was a one-off.

[Max-Zorin]

Dark Souls is hard. Chakan the Forever Man, makes you hate life.

[Skankinruby]

The souls series brought back the unforgiving nature that games from the early 90s and late 80s used to have, I think it's a very fair standard/comparison for recent games.

[admiralvic]

It really didn't. We had things like Ninja Gaiden 1/2 and a few others, the main difference is that Demon's Souls became popular. I think the best example of this is between Demon's Souls and Spelunker HD. These games released within a month of each other, feature esoteric mechanics, crushing mechanics and other unforgiving elements.

Demon's Souls has a Metacritic average 89 percent with pull quotes like "Demon's Souls may make you throw controllers. It could possibly make you hate everything you've ever loved. It will probably make you yell curse words very, very loudly. It's also some of the best fun to be had on the PS3."

Spelunker HD has a Metacritic average of 56 with pull quotes like "Spelunkers HD is an enjoyable platformer, marred by an extremely difficult nature that is bound to turn many, if not most, away. If you're a gamer that relishes games with a harsh, unwilling and unforgiving nature, or were a fan of the original title, this is the perfect game for you. For everyone else out there though, save your sanity and stay away. Consider yourself warned."

The point being, Demon's Souls didn't bring anything back, nor did it do anything special. It just so happened to be a game that got popular and because it's not that unforgiving (I could beat any souls game long before I could beat either Ninja Gaiden title on a difficulty above normal) it became a staple. The only reason people currently use it is because people know what a Souls game is like, where as I doubt many would know what Ninja Gaiden or Spelunker are like.

[Dirty_Lemons]

The mine cart section of Tombi 2. As a child it was impossible, I tackled it some years ago as an adult and damn, it's still brutal to the point I can't actually do it and collect everything. Stopped me 100% that classic in my youth and adulthood.

[chris235]

what's wrong with the human brain comparing things? you cannot stop that, you know.

[chuckyj1]

I honestly was never aware this was happening... But I never really got caught up on the whole dark souls games either...

[deafdani]

Great article, and one that tackles a difficult subject. The Dark Souls of gaming articles.

[CaitSith]

Thanks for the laugh.

[vivid83]

They should call it 16 bit difficulty..... those old games were hard and you had to go back to the beginning when you lost your lives

[InTheZoneAC]

Then people would cry that new games don't look like 16 bit games and then the 8 bit crowd would take a knee for being excluded and next thing you know they're in the news rallying ignorant watchers to join their 8 bit inclusion movement. Then Trump says something right, but their hate for Trump overrides any logical response and we are now going in circles with no end or resolution set.

[InTheZoneAC]

@balance, try to lighten up for once

[drunkenspy007]

I don't know what's worse. The comparison, or those who constantly complain about the comparison.

[Jon_Targaryen]

OP can suck it, people can call it whatever they like. Stop trying to get clicks for something totally irrelevant. Idiot.

[FallenAngel1984]

This meme needs to die

[rZ1]

This is hardly a new phenomenon and it is far from the worst. If you want annoying, think back to how every sandbox - or slightly less linear game - was referred to as attempting to be GTA 3 back in the early 2000s.

[ASBO-5]

This article is the "Dark Souls of N4G"

[HyperMouse]

Agreed, from now on things will be the cup head of....whatever

[CaitSith]

This article is the Dark Souls of complaining.

[FoxyGotGame]

No, I think I'll continue to call "hard games the Dark Souls of whatever" ... thank you /

[Gitgud]

no.

[DONTB]

Can we stop complaining about pointless, stupid fucking shit, like what game people compare other games. The reason nobody compares Cuphead to contra or gunstar is because those games are infinite years old, don't worry, Dark Souls comparisons will stop once enough time passes and we have people younger than the DS games making game reviews.