280°

Project Cars - Xbox One frame rate issues+DX12

Ian Bell,the head of Slightly Mad Studios,stated that DX12 will be extremely well for them on Xbox One.

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forum.projectcarsgame.com
christocolus3260d ago (Edited 3260d ago )

Jayk15 - With DirectX 12 round the corner, could this be upgraded with that in mind? Would it make any difference?

Ian Bell -Oh yes Our engine loves it also.

Ian Bell - "With DX12 the Xbox will perform extremely well for us."

Good to know.

@Bleedstorm

"if the devs use it it will . can't wait to see the first games built from the ground up for dx12 "

Exactly. Gears4, Halo 5, Tomb Raider ,Scalebound, Forza 6 and Crackdown will benefit greatly from this.

bleedsoe9mm3260d ago (Edited 3260d ago )

so much for dx12 not going to have an effect on current games , if the devs use it it will . can't wait to see the first games built from the ground up for dx12 .

kraenk123259d ago (Edited 3259d ago )

What is funny is just it seems some people believe those enhancements will only happen on XB1. The PS API is even more down to the metal than DX12 and Mantle so if the developers use it well we will see great advancements on all sides. Will be a good time to be a gamer.

Kavorklestein3259d ago

@kraenk12
The difference is the ps4 doesn't have a major API update coming out soon, unlike dx12 which is coming out soon and is an update that is specifically designed to help increase performance.

Sweep143259d ago

@ Kavorklestein
How do you know Sony's PS4 API status ?
You work at SCE's ICE team ?
Sony continuously update their API. They just don't constantly brag it everywhere and don't make it sound like it's the 2nd comming of JC

never4get3259d ago

"DX12 will be extremely well for them on Xbox One" - Ian Bell,the head of Slightly Mad Studios

extremely well said

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 3259d ago
HaydenJameSmith3259d ago (Edited 3259d ago )

Well it's been said for a while now that DX12 will have an impact/effect on Xbox One, shouldn't be a surprise just cause others refused to believe, even downplay it.

If games that are out now can get patched that's brilliant, just wait till we see a game built with DX12 in mind. Of course not every game out (pre) DX12 is gonna get patched, it's at developers own discretion. It will vary from game to game, not all of them are gonna go back and improve there games. But any improvement on existing games is appreciated.

LifeInNZ3259d ago

I don't think it having an effect was really in question, its more the level of effect. However, to me any improvement should be seen as a positive as it should for anyone who owns or is considering getting the X1.

TheCommentator3259d ago

But that ex-employee from Naughty Dog, who never worked with DX12, said it won't help! So did CDPR, who also has no experience with the API!!! But, but, but...

Clearly SMS has been reading too many Brad Wardell interviews and are XB1 fanboys. Yeah, that's it. <sarcasm>

G20WLY3259d ago

Any improvement has to be good news, but even Phil Spencer hasn't exactly been clear on what the effects will be.

Why are some suddenly believing one developer (who is currently under fire for a non-existent "dumb down" and controller issues and is eager to offer hope to purchasers of his product) over another?

I never buy into the downplaying OR the hype anymore - SHOW ME THE PROOF! I want to play the effect; not read about it! ;^D

Nekroo913259d ago

But but but....Except Naughty Dog, and CDRP are some of the best programmers in the gaming industry by miles.

Instead of Brad Wardell who makes RTS or this guys which the game looks way worse than driveclub and forza.

TheCommentator3259d ago

@g20

In the interview Digital Foundry did with the architects of the XB1 they said, "We did index mere in term s of CU than we needed, so we have CU overhead." Phil has talked about DX12 offering improvements stating, amongst other things, that it'll make the XB1 better at some things it was designed for. Brad Wardell talks about the improvement DX12 will offer XB1, always speaks with candor by admitting if he is speculating or doesn't know something(He's the one guy who was quoted by AMD when discussing DX12). Now SMS are saying it will help their engine too.

Hypocritically, Sony fanboys come along and latch on to people who say the opposite like their word is better than the words of others. If SMS says it'll improve their engine then it will. If CDPR says that you don't have enough shaders for DX12 to matter, why is there CU overhead designed into the system? Even if we don't have hard data, it is obvious we will see some benefit with DX12.

Look, it's fine that you want to see the games. We all do. E3 is just a few weeks away. It's just stupid that we get slammed for talking about improvements by a bunch of people who play on another console who don't think it will do anything. Why is improving so bad that it spreads all this hate anyways? Nobody is talking about 5tf, dual GPU secret sauce. We're only saying better than DX11. We'll see in a few weeks.

UltraNova3259d ago

"Exactly. Gears4, Halo 5, Tomb Raider ,Scalebound, Forza 6 and Crackdown will benefit greatly from this."

Chris,

Where did you read that Tomb Raider will be developed with DX12?

If it is then I'm quite interested to see which one will look and perform better when the ps4 version comes out 6-12 months later. It will end some debates once and for all, provided SE develops the ps4 version 'as best they can' allowing for a fare face off.

That said, I cant wait to see some DX12 games on the xbox one. DX talk has been long and exhausting, its about time we saw something tangible, something real...

christocolus3259d ago (Edited 3259d ago )

If MS plans to upgrade the OS&Api in the console to Windows 10&DX12 then why shouldn't it benefit future Xbox One games? Do you think Xbox One 1st party devs will keep using Dx11 once they have ascess to DX12?also Phil said the first batch of DX 12 games would see a release in the fall. Halo 5, Forza 6, TR.(All releasing this fall).

UltraNova3259d ago (Edited 3259d ago )

"If MS plans to upgrade the OS&Api in the console to Windows 10&DX12 then why shouldn't it benefit future Xbox One games?"

Who said it wont? The question is how much, not if.

"Do you think Xbox One 1st party devs will keep using Dx11 once they have access to DX12?"

Of course not. Presently though it depends on how far in development they were when they received the new API, you don't believe the'll re-right their engine code to transfer their game into DX12 midway don't you?

They will switch to DX12 next round for sure and we will see what they came up with 2-3 years after their current project.

The thing is (what I did a bad job of portraying above) is that no matter how good true exclusives look they are very tricky to be compared with another system's exclusive to allow us see tangible proof of what a new piece of tech/software can do, in this case DX12.

Hence why I'm so interested to see Tomb Raider's way from an MS/DX12 exclusive to its porting to the ps4 using the latter's API and hardware(if its DX12 enabled that is).

Here's hoping parity wont be an issue in this case so we can get some reliable face offs and answer this once and for all.

EDIT: And you didn't answer my original question.

christocolus3259d ago

I get what you're saying and about TR there is no official statement from MS or CD stating the use of DX12 but they don't really have to announce that. Going with Gallagher(CD head) and Phil spencer's comments ,both guys have talked about working together on the title to make it the best, CD also stated that they wanted to make the best use of xbox ones hardware. Gallagher also mentioned in an interview that they weren't even involved with the xbox 360 port and that being exclusive allows them put all their focus on Xbox One.now if they really want to maximize the consoles potential then DX12 will be the way to go.1st and 2nd party devs have access to Dx12 early(Turn 10, Lionhead) and i believe CD has access to the api too.Why would MS fund,co-develop,publish and market the title like it's a 1st party game and not push for DX12. My guess is TR and Halo5 and FM6 will be early dx12 titles.

medman3259d ago (Edited 3259d ago )

@christocolus
Geez dude, when are you people going to stop drinking the kool aid? You shifted from clouds to dx12....and when that hits and you see it makes little difference on consoles you'll be looking for your next unicorn to believe in. Just enjoy the games and stop buying into unfounded hype. Phil Spencer himself is on record saying dx12 won't have a large impact on xbone performance. If you refuse to listen, that is a you problem.

christocolus3259d ago

What? Pls give me a break.what unfounded hype? Kool aid? Maybe you shouldn't be so eager to dismiss it yourself afterall,you obv iously have no experience working with the api. The head of SMS made the statement.he says DX12 will perform extremely well on Xbox One and his game engine loves the Api too. If you have a problem with his comment then direct your reply towards him. If a thrid party dev is happy about the positive effects of DX12 on Xbox one then why shouldn't MS 1st&2nd party be equally happy about it?

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hiredhelp3260d ago

Soo many mix signals from devs with dx12 on consoles its crazy.

bleedsoe9mm3260d ago

i think the more devs that get there hands on it the more truth is coming out . any dev that has a recent release on pc as well as console is going to do a dx12 update because they can get more out of it on both console and pc .

nicksetzer13259d ago (Edited 3259d ago )

Not mixed signals, all the devs who have used it have all said it will be a benefit.

Only the random devs unaffiliayed with DX12 on PC or XB1 that claim otherwise. Sadly, on this site everyone takes the word of those people rather than those using it.

Even with demos from square, unreal and crytek showing DX12 improvements people will still claim it does nothing. The only question is how big of an impact on XB1. My guess is it will be pretty small, but bug enough to make a noticable difference on some level. That is just a guess though, not expecting huge improvements.

JasonKCK3259d ago

What mix signals? So far it's over overwhelmingly positive.

Kavorklestein3259d ago

Agreed, the only ones dismissing it have no experience with it, or simply DON'T WANT it to make a difference, like Sony fans, or Sony devs

Lennoxb633259d ago

I figure since the X1 and PC will soon be running the same API. They could just update the X1 with the feature updates they put on the PC version. Of course they will scale for whatever features the X1 can handle.

AutoCad3259d ago

If 3rd party developers use the technology there is no reason for any game to be below 60fps..
But i highly doubt they will,they dont want to upset the higher install base SONY has..

#NOPARITY

dcbronco3259d ago

But Microsoft should push them and assist them in using it. I feel Microsoft should start a special team of engineers besides the regular group that assists developers. They should come equipped with a checkbook that gives a developer $500,000-1,000,000 to implement DX12 in their game. And they should do the same for as many AAA titles as possible. Games like Ryse and Titanfall. They should take advantage of the benefits of DX12 before Sony upgrades their API.

Khajiit863259d ago

LMAO What you smokin Willis?

IamTylerDurden13259d ago

Funny because i just saw an article about how dx12 wasn't going to do much, but that one is wrong bc he worked for ND. This is so pathetic how ppl pin their hopes on theoretical propaganda bc they need a distraction from the blinding truth, that truth is rendered in 720p btw. You realize p cars is on PS4 as well? Yet they made the game for dx12 right? Tell me how mind blowingly different the game is on xbone when dx12 comes out.

LifeInNZ3259d ago

Does not have to be mind blowingly different, optimisations might just mean they can firm up the framerate and eliminate screen tearing.

You do realise that with the release of Windows 10 that more people will end up gaming on DX12 than on PS4s? Kind of makes sense for developers to have it on their roadmap don't you think?

badz1493259d ago

"You do realize that with the release of Windows 10 that more people will end up gaming on DX12 than on PS4s?"

but you do realize DX12 is not gonna magically make everything better than the PS4, right? hardware will always matters and no amount of DX12 magic will suddenly make the weaker PCs or Xbone perform at the same level of the PS4. sure coding might become easier and more effect can be added to games thanks to DX12 but if you're expecting AAA games at 1080p is gonna be standard on the Xbone, I think you're gonna be disappointed, let alone 1080p60fps!

I would love to be proven wrong when DX12 released but at the moment, I can't see DX12 as anything other than an optimization tools and we haven't seen the last of 900p on Xbone just yet.

LifeInNZ3259d ago

I couldn't care less about what it will and wont make it in relation to the PS4. I game for the games and not for fanboy pi$$ing contests. If it was only about specs then why would anyone buy consoles over PCs?

GenuineGamer3259d ago (Edited 3259d ago )

@badz149

People need to stop underestimating xbox one hardware and the importance of software! dx12 is a big deal and its unfair to say ps4 is more powerful when its had an advantage over xbox one this whole time with its gnm api.

PS4 already has dx12 equivilant with GNM and yet xb1 is right there along side it all while being held back by dx11.

You should be scared coming in here running to sonys defence. MS is bringing the hammer with dx12 and i would not be surprised if xbox one starts outperforming ps4 very soon.

Xbox One hardware was made with dx12 in mind.

Sweep143259d ago

GenuineGamer

And you need to stop believing that until now, X1 used the stock DX11 API. X1 has a proprietary API, way closer to the metal than standard DX11.
and yes X1's hardware is globally inferior to PS4's one this is a real life fact.
Finally, with P2RLA comming on PS4's API, Sony will nullify every API advantage bringed on X1 by DX12

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dcbronco3259d ago

I think it's pathetic that people can't acknowledge reality when it is so obvious. While not saying DX12 will increase power ninety percent, it is ignorant to believe it won't make Xbox One better. I'm betting on 20-30%.

Here's why. We know Xbox One doesn't already do several things mentioned at GDC And BUILD. Things like parallel GPU communication, which will increase drawcalls. We know GPUs aren't 100% efficient. Parallel communication will utilize more of the GPU. That will be an improvement. We know it hasn't been doing all of the bundling yet. The former ND guy mentioned DX12 would allow the GPU to repeat things it had already drawn. One of the things ESRAM is good for is storing textures that are needed often. There was a Microsoft demo at BUILD a couple of years ago where they could store huge amounts of textures in ESRAM. That will help Xbox One. Even though the drawcalls go up on the CPU, power usage goes down. Which also saves heat. Which means there could be room for pushing the GPU harder or up clocking it more.

There are other things that have been mentioned. Plus there is still the cloud. Which I bet you also doubt. But hey, if it wasn't for so many people that doubt possibilities there wouldn't be so much opportunity for a few to become rich off them.

3259d ago
Sweep143259d ago

5-10% if you are lucky. And expect the same on the Sony's side with P2RLA

dcbronco3258d ago

If they save fifty percent of the energy output of the CPU that the demos have shown that alone should provide a sizable boost. That should leave them room to overclock the GPU. When it comes to further pushing the thermal barriers of the machines ps4 might be at a disadvantage. One of the legendary commentators on Beyond3d did a breakdown of both systems. He concluded that Xbox One was built with the expectation of eventually handling more heat. The fan is huge and the design was just more heat tolerant overall. My initial thought was not wanting the possibility of RRoD again. But bumping the clocks makes sense considering DX12. If the the ESRAM really can hold as much as the Microsoft demos showed it should free up the GPU a good amount.

If people would watch the videos on channel 9 from BUILD and GDC they would understand more. Add those things with what developers mention. There are many things DX12 does that aren't being used on Xbox One now. And if they improve the PC, they will improve Xbox One.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if it was every bit as much. Because whether you want to believe it or not, Xbox One was built around DX12. So it might gain more.

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170°

Why did EA Kill Project CARS?

This video explains why we think Electronic Arts didn't see a future in the sim racing title Project CARS and promptly cancelled the fourth instalment.

Jin_Sakai531d ago

After the last installment I’d say most hardcore fans left. It’s just not that good anymore so I can’t really blame EA this time.

masterfox531d ago

because it was always a project and it never got finished :D

ChubbyBlade529d ago

Every game is a project. Your joke doesn’t make sense

InUrFoxHole529d ago

It makes perfect sense. It's obviously a play on the title. Jesus christ you must be a blast at parties.

ApocalypseShadow530d ago (Edited 530d ago )

Ask Bullfrog or Black Box or Tiburon or Studio 33 or Criterion or any of the previously acquired developers who made racing games as competition, or as developers of EA games, then eventually dissolved into oblivion or reassigned. Just ask them. They'll tell you why.

ApocalypseShadow529d ago

Oh. I forgot. Even Code Masters were absorbed into Criterion. Another racing developer EA took over.

Every racing developer either absorbed by EA or eventually destroyed by them. They either kill competition or have them in the end make Need 4 Speed for them.

MadLad530d ago

EA only cancels projects for one reason.
They didn't see enough money in it.

Kombatologist530d ago (Edited 530d ago )

Not when it's because it didn't meet some crazy margin. It's like if something doesn't make EA a billion dollars on day one (I'm exaggerating that figure of course), they swiftly put it out to pasture.

SurgicalMenace529d ago (Edited 529d ago )

Much like if you're spending money on what's a bad investment for your desired goals, you'd do away with it, if you're wise. We should try to get away from thinking we know more about business than individuals that have been doing it for decades. Perhaps you could benefit from going into business instead of wasting all of your talents in comment sections. It's clear that you're the missing piece that EA's been looking for.

MadLad529d ago

I've made a good amount of money betting on underdog investments over the years.

EA sets unrealistic expectations of their more niche developers, yet continue to fund absolute blunders like DICE and the Battlefield series year after year.

dumahim530d ago

EA butted in and messed with the formula and act shocked when it doesn't work out.

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90°

Original Project CARS creator trying to re-hire EA team

Ian Bell, the founder of Slightly Mad Studios, is aiming to hire former Project CARS employees to work on his upcoming GTR Revival project.

Sgt_Slaughter533d ago

If it's just going to be another sim-cade that doesn't do either one correctly then no thanks.

Project CARS 2 was a step in the right direction but the physics still aren't where they should have been, so what did they do for PC3? Go completely arcade. That killed the franchise.

220°

EA dropping Project CARS

From GI.biz: "EA is dropping Project CARS, GamesIndustry.biz can reveal.

The Slightly Mad Studios-developed series was launched in 2015, with EA confirming today that it has made the decision to "stop further development and investment" in the franchise.

The announcement was made internally and it's unclear at this stage to which extent staff could be affected. EA said that employees working on Project CARS will be moved into "suitable" roles "wherever [they] can.""

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gamesindustry.biz
Terry_B535d ago

Typical for EA. They buy studios that created nice games..and are sooner or later destroying them and move the people to work on the old same 5+ EA series.

italiangamer535d ago

They will put the developers on the 1000th Need for Speed for the rest of their entire careers, just like Criterion.

SurgicalMenace535d ago

To be fair, it's not EAs fault it falls directly on the consumer. Everytime these companies choose to drop a series they're met with backlash though the gamers didn't support said series enough to justify its continuation. Attempting to paint every company as evil all because they're in it to succeed is ridiculous. They have to make money just like each of us typing in this section. If a job wasn't supporting you well you'd quit and find a new one, this is the same mentality concerning series.

TheColbertinator534d ago

@SurgicalMenace

No it is their fault. They don't listen to fans and burn the franchise to the ground by introducing elements that nobody wanted instead of increasing support for said respected franchises.

I order a steak, they make a steak. 1st sale
I order a steak again, they vomit on my steak and charge me more for it. No sale.

EA in a nutshell.

Tapani534d ago

@TheColbinator Well how do you think they make the billions then?

Their fans ARE buying their games. You are just not their focus group, and I can guarantee their customer insights team is more thorough and detailed in their reaearch than any N4G commentors’ opinion on the matter. Otherwise EA would not exist as a company, and they’d be bankrupt.

deleted535d ago

The one that still hurts the most though was Criterion w the Burnout series. Acquired Criterion's tech for their own existing IP, then shut em down. It's basically parasitic. I sure do miss Burnout's crash mode!

Hofstaderman534d ago

Sounds eerily similar to another large unnamed corporation hey. I believe some EA bigwigs shifted to that company back in the day, would explain the similarities.

rlow1534d ago

Must be talking about Sony

peppeaccardo535d ago

and instead they come out with that piece of shit of Need for Speed which looks like an Anna & Barbera cartoon. C'mon .... PC2 was my go to game for VR racing and the first one i played for tens of hours. i was so lookiing forward to PC4 after that failure of PC3 ... what a shame EA, they are bombing all the good games and stick to the garbage ones. EA when you think you have reached maximum of disappointment they top it off with style .... screw them!

SurgicalMenace535d ago

Need for Speed continues to sell so why would they get rid of what's producing what they need to maintain stability?

EazyC535d ago

What they did to this series was idiotic. The premise was great -- a sim/simcade game that GENUINELY got developed in line with its community. There is a huge gap in the market for this...I mean, PD hasn't listened to fans at all over the last year with regard to simple Gran Turismo 7 tweaks. Sim racing fans are screaming for a title where they actually give a shit about their users.

Project Cars 2 was genuinely on to something, it just needed some refinement. But instead they followed up by selling off to EA with a braindead GRID clone with Project Cars 3. Again...idiotic.

SurgicalMenace535d ago

Well since you're the authority on properly managing a million dollar company, why don't you just call them to let them know of your divine wisdom?

Hardcore sim racers are the ones who are competing acrossed the globe, no company in their right mind would focus on a forever moving casual market. They have to focus on those dedicated to supporting their efforts. Notice how you're speaking from a perspective of self opposed to the collective. Perhaps they sold out because they, like us, needed the money knowing that they could reinvest it into something new. PC was a decent racer but very few people mainlined it over GT or Forza.

EazyC534d ago

I'm not a divine authority but I notice a pattern where these huge corporations turn completely tone deaf of what the "average fan" wants.

vallencer534d ago

Hate to break it to you but project cars 3 was published by Bandai in 2020. EA didn't buy codemasters, which owned slightly mad studios, until 2021. Either way the sales were super poor for the game and it's not surprising EA would just drop the game. BUT it still sucks because it's one less sim racing game on the market. Especially because the first 2 were really good.

Tzuno535d ago

and focuses more on cartoon network games

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