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DragonKnight

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CRank: 9Score: 0

What's up with the bad approvals on this site lately?

N4G has its share of problems that would take an entire blog post to write out. Stuff like how easy it is to lose a bubble, but how nearly impossible it is to gain one, or the seemingly random nature at which some comments are incorrectly flagged in some fashion. Today is a day I noticed a problem I'm sure many of you have noticed a lot already.

That being that there are submissions that fail the most basic of site rules being allowed to pass through the approval process filled with flaws, some even being approved by a single mod. You can tell it's a mod since only one person approved the story and there is a big number 10 beside the approval.

Today I noticed a submission where the title was completely wrong. It was for a game called Rogue Star but the submission said Rogue Galaxy. Naturally, since there are many fans of the Level 5 PS2 JRPG Rogue Galaxy, there were people who thought that we'd be hearing some news about Rogue Galaxy only to be met with disappointment to find out that Rogue Star is just an iOS game with no relation to Rogue Galaxy at all. This story made it through the approval process without one single person mentioning that misleading title, and it wasn't fixed until AFTER it was approved and I myself actually read the article to see that it had nothing to do with Rogue Galaxy and then reported the incorrect title myself.

Just now I saw another submission that passed through that was literally someone's blog. Admittedly, it was the blog of a game designer so I suppose there is a relation, but the blog was essentially a "my day at work" thing and not exactly riveting gaming news. In the posting guidelines, blogs are specifically mentioned as something to be avoided and yet a blog made it through. Are people not actually reading these things?

I know first hand that there is a "boosting" issue on this site, and that's to be expected and can't always be prevented right away, but I mean come on people. How many times are there complaints about the kind of content that makes it through on this site? Too many to count. It will keep happening if you don't have some kind of standard for approving stories. These kinds of things merely add to the already many problems on this site and if you're not prepared to at least help be a part of the solution, then you shouldn't really complain about the problems.

We've seen the spam getting worse too. And I don't mean the bots that post in the comment section. I mean the submissions that have "like our facebook page" in the description. This is supposed to be News 4 Gamers, not Adspace 4 Companies or Blogs 4 Anyone.

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LostDjinn1213d ago (Edited 1213d ago )

The site has some problems. Most of which are caused by particular users (the ones who create multiple accounts to spam report submissions, artificially inflate/deflate bubble counts, spam approve submissions and just generally ruin things for legitimate users) called douches. They've always been part of the site. The only way for you deal with them is with an effort on your part. This is a good start but you need to call them out every time you see the offending behavior.

As for advise on getting bubbles back, sleep with a Mod.

I recommend Smokey. He's not fussy.

thorstein1213d ago

This. For instance. When, a site, like destructoid, publish a piece they want it posted here, and want it to get hits, so they submit it then approve it en masse with the use of the various morons over at that site. The thing is there are far more users here than over there. So, certainly this happens quite a bit.

They have also attacked me en masse because I called out one of their superfat "journos" But, this, like most things seems to ebb and flow with the times. Some of these people move on and forget about things here. It is unfortunate!

r211213d ago

I wish i had my 3rd bubble back. I've never trolled or pissed anyone off here and yet I lost it.

Root1212d ago (Edited 1212d ago )

Did you ask about it....let me guess did they give you the copied and pasted speech about how the bubble system works....how peoples votes when they do it out of spite can mark you down overall in time when you haven't done anything thus proving how the bubble system is broken. It's funny because despite knowing this themselfs they won't do anything about it, hell some mods don't do it because they arn't "allowed" apparently......even though they are mods.

Hell I was banned from commenting for 4 days because I was defending myself from a troll who attacked me first. My first time getting a ban and it was for FOUR days and I lost a bubble....the actual troll, well nothing happened to him. I complained and nothing was done about it, they ignored me, however cgoodno let me off with the last day on my ban but by then it wasn't really worth it, my time was nearly up anyway

Christopher1212d ago (Edited 1212d ago )

Really, "Root"?

You took an argument from one submission to another and were completely off topic in doing so. And, to finish it off, you called them an immature troll.

http://n4g.com/news/1146772...

The level of restriction was because you didn't just 'harmlessly make a trollish comment' but hunted someone down to criticize and talk about something way off topic. And even then, I cut it short when I didn't have to. And it was for 3 days, not 4.

We sometimes do give bubbles back. I normally do it for people who curse lightly as I mark the post down and they would have lost a bubble from it. But we don't just give them back because we don't like the bubble system. Most of the people asking for bubbles back tend to deserve losing them in the first place.

Furthermore, with the amount of work the mods do for free, you think they have all the time in the world to find and right all the wrongs on this site? Heck, I spend half my day just responding to complaints/questions/issues. That's not even moderating comments, submissions, forums, and more.

The system isn't perfect, but that doesn't mean we are supposed to fix all its issue. We have an obligation to follow the rules as well, not just write our own ones where we see fit.

@below:

"Root" we know this isn't your first offense. We're just tired of dealing with all of your accounts. I mean, it's not like you're not giving it away with a 45d account that is so familiar with everything on the site.

And, honestly, 'defense' is never an answer for calling people names, being off topic, trolling, or the like. You somehow think that the appropriate response to be trolled or attacked is to do the same thing? It's not. Did you learn from this? No, instead you blame us and others for your inability to follow the rules.

Cue "I don't know what you're talking about, I've never had a ton of dupe accounts that have been banned in the past using proxies to get around it a ton of times and coming back and blaming others for all of my issues."

Root1212d ago (Edited 1212d ago )

@cgoodno

Fine it was 3 then...sorry but I was thinking on the spot...can't remember every small detail

Anyway I don't care what I said I was defending myself, if you replied to my messages, reports and whatever else I said about that user then I wouldn't have to get p****** off and go onto another article after that troll blocked me. I was merely just finishing off the argument HE STARTED so he wouldn't get the last laugh. I'm not giving a troll the last laugh

I don't see why you can't defend yourself on here.

He was an immature troll, that's the point. It's not like I started the argument myself to an innocent user who did nothing wrong and called him it....this guy actually was, I was basically stating a fact and you shouldn't be marked down for calling someone out.

You should of went "Why did he call him that" <looks at users comment history> "Oh god, he is a little immature and is trolling, guess Root is kind of right" then you could of banned him or told him off.

I was more ticked off though that you didn't even bother to use the Warning system next to the restrictions. It was my first offence and I got a bubble removed AND 3 days restricted....that isn't fair, not at all.

Look at how many time Mika trolls, she's always posting the next day or two yet I get that done to me

"Furthermore, with the amount of work the mods do for free, you think they have all the time in the world to find and right all the wrongs on this site? "

As I've said below, ask more people to be mods. Ask Pozzle, Alpha, Mezzo etc. If it actually is optional then you can give people jobs to do to make it easier on yourself and other mods. More mods...less to do

thorstein1212d ago

I want to go off topic too! I got a bubble back because I had lost it for "Spam" when I listed in the comments section the top 10 list of a site that forced you to click to see each of the ten.

I had it explained to me why this was a violation and replied that I completely agree with the mods here, but explained that I am hardly a troll so could I please have my bubble back. They gave it to me with a bit of a probation (understandable). During that probation I actually was bubbled up a few times, so, it isn't always cut and dry!

MikeMyers1212d ago

Why am I not surprised Root has a history here. The guy floods the forums with endless comments and then acts like the victim. Glad to know how persistent he is too with having multiple accounts as well. It's obvious some people want to be heard above everyone else and will do everything in their power to get attention.

Montrealien1212d ago

blah blah blah, bad subs is far from a new thing here.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 1212d ago
Root1212d ago (Edited 1212d ago )

This site has problems but despite concerning them for ages no improvements are ever done

I mean how long have been complained about the bubble system for example.

I just feel the mods don't give a crap at time

How about N4G goes through a revamp and gets rid of the bubble system but hires more mods

One or two mods for the submissions
One or two for the tickets
Maybe three or four for the articles

When you become a mod you do it in your own time, least then with more mods, and I mean mods who are actually going to treat people with respect and not be one sided, will give the other mods on here Columbo/Cgoodno for example more time to spend in their personal lifes.

"As for advise on getting bubbles back, sleep with a Mod."

Kind of pointless in a way

One minute it's

"We don't get involved, it's a community"

When you try to plead with them that the bubble system is broke and your comment dosent match what you were bubbled down with then the next it's

"Yeah we did that your comment"

It feels they make the "guidelines" up when ever they feel like it most of the time since mods tell you different things. I feel each mod should act independently, if they feel your in the right then let them help you....I would if I was a mod, hell I would if I was asked, don't do much round here anyway

Even when they are in the wrong and you've done nothing wrong yourself they still wouldn't give you your bubbles back. I mean is it that hard to add a bubble to a users account, they make it seem they have have to travel to Mordor or something to do it

Valenka1213d ago

People care more about getting their score up by blindly approving submissions left and right, opposed to filtering submissions to ensure legitimate quality. It's a shame, really.

DragonKnight1213d ago

LostDjinn: LOL! When it comes to my bubbles, the only time it bothers me if I lose them is why, not that I lost it. It's fine to gain or lose bubbles, but it's ridiculous how easily one can lose them and for the most inappropriate reasons. I've seen legitimate, on topic posts get flagged as Spam. That's just ridiculous. And this blog is more about people not paying attention to what they approve so that the kind of stuff that gets through is the kind of stuff we always see people complaining about. You don't like flamebait? Why approve it? You don't like 2 line articles and blogs? Report them. But when you see a mod approve a story that has a mistake in the title, then you know there's definitely something wrong.

Valenka: I don't even know why people care about their score. I certainly don't and I've been here for about 7 years, maybe more.

Bimkoblerutso1209d ago

The hard truth here is that mods are just people; people fully capable of exhibiting nauseating levels of bias and fanboyism (forgive me for using the word, but it applies) just like the rest of us. It's easy to see a borderline penalty going one way or the other because of one particular mod's bias toward the commenter or even just the position of a particular opinion that they may or may not have liked.

Unfortunately nowadays, the internet is so sensitive to "trolling" that there is literally no distinction between what is trolling and what is a simple contrary opinion. So you end up getting very, VERY muddy rules and regulations. It's just the way things have to be in a world in which people are unable to hear opposing opinions.

Nineball21121213d ago

DragonKnight,

Regarding this comment:

"I've seen legitimate, on topic posts get flagged as Spam."

Without going into detail, there are some users who continually create new accounts who have been banned. When that happens, when we address the situation, often times those comments made by those accounts are flagged as spam.

DragonKnight1213d ago

Oh really? Well, the more you know. I had absolutely no idea that that's how it was dealt with.

lex-10201213d ago

Holy jebus. A respectful reply to someone correcting you? Did you forget this is the internet sir? :)

pixelsword1213d ago (Edited 1213d ago )

Lately?

At any rate, the main reason is that those who tried to complain about standards are banned from reporting bad news articles, point blank and period.

...and this is the result.

Christopher1213d ago (Edited 1213d ago )

No they aren't. People aren't banned for reporting bad articles. They're banned for not following the terms of use and it normally means offensive language, excessive trolling, or the inability to follow the submission guidelines after multiple restrictions.

OT: It's because the site has stagnated. Hopefully a future update will improve many things, get people more interested in the content rather than having it primarily handled by the people who create it in the first place. I think we're all kinda hoping the next site update will bring some new features and improve how things are around here. I know I'm hoping for it.

InMyOpinion1213d ago (Edited 1213d ago )

"It's because the site has stagnated. Hopefully a future update will improve many things."

Just curious, what do you think is the biggest flaw with the site at the moment?

Christopher1213d ago

Geeze, the biggest?

From a moderator standpoint: multiple account control

From a comment maker standpoint: Bubble abuse

From a news reader standpoint: Plethora of unnecessary opinion pieces from anyone who can buy a domain name (a whole $10 expense!).

lex-10201213d ago

I'm not a mod so I don't have any idea if you can actually do this but can't you just ban an IP address?

I mean sites like gamefaqs use IP addresses to keep users from making multiple accounts and voting on their daily polls. Couldn't you do something like that and ban an IP address from making multiple accounts, if their a known offender?

Christopher1213d ago (Edited 1213d ago )

***I'm not a mod so I don't have any idea if you can actually do this but can't you just ban an IP address? ***

Sure. Do it all the time.

But here's what you don't know:

- School IPs and similar are shared so you're banning multiple people most of the time.

- The same issue comes if you ban IPs by region.

- Proxies can get a person a new IP easily.

No site has a solution that is based solely on IP banning. You have to have it based on other factors. Everyone has the same issues as N4G when it comes to the ability to get around IP bans.

Example: I've banned about 10 spammers in the last few days. Each of them using a different IP. Those spammers will be back on the site, if they aren't already, with a new one. I can't predetermine that one IP is tied to another. We could ban China, but they'd just use European or U.S. IPs. It's really that easy.

mandf1213d ago

@cgoodno

Why do certain members running around with 6-8 bubbles trolling articles have that many bubbles and are not banned?

Christopher1213d ago (Edited 1213d ago )

***Why do certain members running around with 6-8 bubbles trolling articles have that many bubbles and are not banned?***

People say this all the time, but they never mention any specific people.

How about you mention and report these people and their trolls and then I'll answer the question. Otherwise, it's just people using hyperbole. Because, based on your question alone, my answer is either "I don't know because I don't see these trolls on the site" or "You may think they're trolls, but they're not."

mandf1213d ago

@cgoodno

Fair enough. I didn't mention a name so as not to cause problems for myself in the future.

DK286K1213d ago SpamShow
pixelsword1213d ago (Edited 1213d ago )

@ cgoodno:

I didn't say people are banned for reporting bad articles, I said that they are banned FROM reporting bad news articles.

That's a huge difference. :)

Plus I also said "those who TRIED to complain about standards ARE banned from reporting bad news articles", which denotes that the event(s) happened in the past, which is also why I typed the interjection:

"Lately?"

These events happened a while ago, I don't know if it was before you were a mod or not, or if that kind of thing still goes on or not, but it definitely happened in the past.

Christopher1213d ago (Edited 1212d ago )

***I didn't say people are banned for reporting bad articles, I said that they are banned FROM reporting bad news articles.***

Well, that makes no sense on a grammatical level. If you mean that people are banned because others make false reports against them, that is just not true. People don't get banned just because someone reports them. What you're essentially saying is that mods ban blindly, and that's just not true.

***Plus I also said "those who TRIED to complain about standards ARE banned from reporting bad news articles", which denotes that the event(s) happened in the past, which is also why I typed the interjection: ***

This is not true since 2009 at the least. I got it was in the past. Your use of 'from reporting' is the same as 'for reporting' which makes no sense if you are meaning to say something else here. That's where you are wrong grammatically.

***These events happened a while ago, I don't know if it was before you were a mod or not, or if that kind of thing still goes on or not, but it definitely happened in the past.***

So, we're debating 2007/2008 vs 2009 and beyond now?

I think if you're trying to argue the past, you need to get over it and move onto what we have now. There's nothing anyone can do about that, including prove it as valid or invalid.

@DK286K: Most of those aren't trolling, let alone close to it. You should realize that trolling doesn't mean sharing an opinion that differs from the article or believing in something stupid. Trolling is specifically saying something to deride others and/or elicit a negative response. We don't ban people for having stupid beliefs, we ban them for purposefully bothering other members and providing nothing constructive to the community.

@ "Root":

Both are typically voted up by the community and the mass majority of their comments are not trolls. Less troll votes than any random account, like say... Carl_Shocker. You know, just saying.

@DK286K below: I have no clue what you're talking about and I don't know why you think you know what I do when who does what as moderators is... anonymous...

I'm fine if you want to blame me for everything wrong with the site. That doesn't mean I believe it, though. You want to be petty and blame me. Cool. If it makes you feel better.

Also, I have no clue who you are. So, no clue about this 'targeting you or other user' thing. But, y'know, run with that. Much like "Root" above, you can blame me for your own issues.

InMyOpinion1213d ago (Edited 1213d ago )

@cgoodno - Thanks for good answers!

@DK286K - Not surprised it was a positive article about the 360 that got trolled to bits.
Funny thing to also note is that most of the trolls have more agrees than disagrees.

I'm surprised so many comments did not get marked for trolling.

Root1212d ago (Edited 1212d ago )

"Hopefully a future update will improve many things."

When though?...these things have been going on for ages. Surley Cat or whatever would of had something sorted out by now with some smart web designers to fix it.

"- School IPs and similar are shared so you're banning multiple people most of the time. "

That happened to me when I first joined, my mate was on it on his phone and I joined through the college and I was automatically banned...however Ninebal2112 fixed it for me and saw that I hadn't been on here before (again thanks for that if your reading).

***Why do certain members running around with 6-8 bubbles trolling articles have that many bubbles and are not banned?***

"People say this all the time, but they never mention any specific people."

Right I'll just say it

EvilDead360
LOGICWINS

That is all

DK286K1212d ago SpamShow
pixelsword1211d ago

@ cgoodno

"Well, that makes no sense on a grammatical level. If you mean that people are banned because others make false reports against them, that is just not true. People don't get banned just because someone reports them. What you're essentially saying is that mods ban blindly, and that's just not true."

Let me make this as simple as I can:

I first posted the sentence:

"At any rate, the main reason is that those who tried to complain about standards are banned from reporting bad news articles, point blank and period."

Which meant those who complained about standards were banned from reporting articles; maybe adding "bad' confused you, but that meant any article in general.

You responded about people banned for reporting bad articles and then you talked about people making false reports, neither of which could be implied from my original sentence.

My correction didn't have all of the original sentence because I though you merely misread the sentence, but I think you totally missed my point.

Secondly

"Your use of 'from reporting' is the same as 'for reporting' which makes no sense if you are meaning to say something else here. That's where you are wrong grammatically. "

No, it's from, I didn't get it mixed up, you just didn't understand my point. You can't use from and for interchangeably in any circumstance. My sentence is as follows if it was broken down (which I guess I have to do):

"At any rate, the main reason is that those who tried to complain about standards are banned from (the task of) reporting bad news articles, point blank and period."

"I think if you're trying to argue the past, you need to get over it and move onto what we have now. There's nothing anyone can do about that, including prove it as valid or invalid."

I never said I was over or not over it, I was just answering a question, of which involves delving into the past; answers tend to do that sometimes.

+ Show (11) more repliesLast reply 1211d ago