Battlefield 3 New Details On Weapon Recoil And High Resolution Texture Pack For Consoles

"Battlefield 3 launch is closing in and we have got some new details for you from Johan Andersson, Rendering Architect and Alan Kertz, Core Gameplay Designer on Battlefield 3."

[Wizziokid]

this is going to distract me from uni work...

[chriski333]

Yea can't wait I have my week vacation that week so im gonna play the crap outta battlefield 3 ;)

[blackhammer]

Thanksgiving? Haha, I'm actually intending to leave my computer that whole friggin' week! Dammit, I might not be able to.

Nevermind, it's going with me! XD

[Cenobia]

@chriski

I did the exact same thing.

[Undeadwolfy]

@Wizziokid Im in the same boat as you, and I'm doing game design lololol.

[andreasx]

great news!

[DirtyLary]

"High Resolution Texture Pack For Consoles"

Hell of an oxymoron.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

Don't you people ever get tired of the same routine? It's kind of sad now.

[zeksta]

Eh, he's slow I'd presume.

[Gameplay999]

So.. we just install the game onto the Xbox 360 and it takes advantage of the systems running off the hard drive? Awesome. Finally. . .

[KillaManiac]

It's very useful for any system.
I always do this on all my systems and welcome big installs on my 360 and ps3.

People take these kind of things as negative, but it only helps run the game better.

[AO1JMM]

Earned yourself a trolling bubble. You're welcome.

[The EDGE]

cant wait:)

[EazyC]

Any of you guys who were left in doubt after the beta, type 'Bazaar Battlefield 3' on Youtube and look at how the PS3 version (and I assume 360 will be the same) has improved from the Beta... Amazing. Truly.

[Kleptic]

Yeah that went up on IGN yesterday I think...and looks significantly better than the beta...ESPECIALLY the shadows, they are much softer looking now...They didn't say 'this is the PS3 version' or anything, I just noticed the button icons popping up and couldn't believe it...

I also didn't realize until like the last day of the beta that almost every light, even in Metro, was able to be destroyed indoors...definitely helped out when defending certain areas...

the weather effects where great too...

and could someone be sure and inform me if qertyz said something relevant...any time I see his name I skip past the text underneath it...The last time i read something of his I could literally feel myself getting dumber...

[The Real Peter Moore]

He said exactly what you'd expect. All his pc bullsh!t

[gazgriff2k12]

hi res texture pack not slowing the game down then why not just have it as standard? confused.com

[decrypt]

Marketing gimmicks at its best. Consoles are not PCs that they have separate specs. Hi res packs are introduced for PCs which can handle them and normally they tend to come with a significant performance hit.

Consoles on the other hand come with standard spec. A 4 year old PS3 or Xbox 360 is just as powerful as the new models there is no difference. They already claim to be using 100% of the systems resources with the standard game, so how could they squeeze in Hi res textures? and if there was performance left over then why not just include it in the standard game.. beats me lol.

Oh well consoles have been a gimmick since they were launched with quotes designed to mislead the masses:

Super computer performance(yea maybe from the 1970's).

4D (lol)

120fps (....)

list goes on.

[radphil]

Man it's depressing when someone branches out something logical, and more people on this site just disagree with it, or troll.

[Kleptic]

That wasn't entirely 'logical' though...

his including of "4D(lol)" implies he has no knowledge of procedural texture rendering or what exactly it is...therefor writes it off as never having been included in any PS3 games (wrong...lol)...and simply bought the poor PR Sony put up behind 4D...as in Sony made 4D sound like a bigger deal than it was, the reality being it creates very subtle effects that the general public doesn't really correlate with a complex rendering technique...

I do agree with much of what he said though...and agree for the most part it is 'marketing'...but there is no standard definition of what a 'high res texture pack' is...and it seems what EA/DICE is doing is simply giving console owners the option of installing texture data to the HDD for faster access...

but for the record...using 100% of a systems resources WITHOUT caching to a standard HDD...is NOT using 100%...and that is where they are finding the 'extra room' to squeeze both consoles...and that is all this guy is talking about...Some games require the use of the HDD...BF3 is leaving it as optional, but claims the install will help with texture detail and pop-in because of the increase in bandwidth it offers over optical media...

[DaTruth]

People didn't disagree with the logical part, they disagreed with the six lines of console trolling at the end!

[Yodagamer]

The hard drives seem to load faster then a disc, so the textures would be hard to stream off a disc

[saumer]

I wish I could click the agree button more.

[decrypt]

I hope you to realize the dated hard drives in consoles are so old and only run at 5400rpm that they could never stream Hi res textures in game.

You would need high capacity of GDDR 5 ram that goes onto modern GPUs to really be able to load Hi res textures. You would need high capacity and the Memory bandwidth, The ram on Modern GPUs easily provides anywhere between 100GB/s - 200GB/s(depending on size of bus used), the hard drives on consoles would at best give you 30-40mb/s, sure it may be enough to load the game faster then loading from DVD however actually being able to load hi res textures is just a gimmick at best.

[Kleptic]

^your description of 'loading textures' doesn't include critical aspects to what has to be done to information on a disc...to come to the conclusion that a 2.5" SATA drive @ 5400rpm 'isn't fast enough' for high res textures...

but first of all...its obvious many are confusing 'high res textures' with unofficial mods available to certain PC games...in which they are massively high res, WAY above what would ever be needed for a 1080p HDTV...it is pretty clear that this is NOT what Dice is talking about with BF3 for consoles...

anyway though...texture data, mostly because of the use of DVD on the 360, are stored in a compressed format for nearly EVERY multiplatform console game...DVD does not have the space for uncompressed texture data of nearly any kind...BD definitely does, and multiple PS3 exclusives have used different techniques for streaming uncompressed texture data directly from the BD in the background (killzone 2, 3, Uncharted 1,2, GOWIII for example)...

but regardless of that, the HDD of either console is much faster than any optical media format at reading information...the kink is usually that, because HDD space is also a concern for developers, that info cached to the HDD is also put into a compressed format to save space...

The hog is the bandwidth it takes to uncompress that information on the fly...not simply reading the data...it takes very little RAM to read the information of the HDD...it takes a ton of RAM to uncompress that data and have it stored to be directly placed on the given frame's geometry...Your example of high end PC GPU's high speed Ram doesn't apply because they are still storing that texture data in a compressed format on the PC's hard drive, because it doesn't matter...the GPU has the grunt to uncompress that in the background with no problem whatsoever, and there is no advantage to taking up the 50+ GB of HDD space when everything lacks compression...

Its not confirmed what Dice is doing yet...if this optional HDD install is going to be uncompressed texture data, which will negate the bandwidth needed to uncompress it as well as read it...or if its like most multiplatform titles which installs still compressed textures, but gains a bit of speed by the fact that the HDD can read it faster than the optical drives can...The numbers will tell the truth...if these are installs north of 5-6GB...its uncompressed...if its more 'normal' like 1-2GB, its probably compressed...and will give very little noticeable difference to texture quality and pop in on either console...

[decrypt]

@Kleptic

I dont want to get into an argument here, bottom line is and i am sure you will agree, that in the end it wont result in much of a difference as the console gamers are led to believe.

Articles on N4G are making it look as if console gamers will be seeing the sort of difference PC gamers get when they load up High res texture mods, which simply wont happen, that sort of stuff plainly needs more powerful hardware.

In the end i would only consider this marketing hype at best.

[Kleptic]

^^totally agree...and wasn't trying to start an argument...My point was really what you just said; that this is not a 'high resolution texture pack' like what keeps being posted about mods for GTAIV or Doom 3 recently...thats all...that is a completely different beast that has nothing to do with consoles, let alone the displays you hook consoles up to...

but at the same time...texture detail and pop in problems can completely be addressed by using uncompressed texture formats (which is loosely what a lot of those PC mods do in the first place)...its just very rarely done on multiplatform games because the 2 systems have to have radically different coding in order to do it...and that Dice hasn't given enough information yet on what they are doing with that yet...

I do know is that Sony has a limit as to how much data a 'mandatory install' uses...and that iD had to get special permission to put the 8GB option up for Rage on PS3...the 360 to this day does not allow ANY kind of mandatory install, as not all sku's include an HDD...but allows options for the entire game to be installed...these limitations on both platforms makes it even less likely that this high res thing is going to make any real difference to the quality of the title on consoles...

[hesido]

@decrypt:

You have some technical knowledge about bandwidths but you do not seem to know what texture streaming does.

Texture streaming is not a replacement for texture fetching directly from video ram. It is meant for loading those textures to that ram, and you don't need it to be fast at all, just fast enough to load textures in newer areas of the game.

The high-res texture pack is to keep the game uninterrupted on a single dvd on Xbox and keep the install size optionally small on Ps3's, and get the textures on a faster media for streaming.

[sovietsoldier]

just because its a 7.62 dont mean it will kick the same in every gun. a ar15 with a 7.62 upper has less recoil then an ak47 and a m14 will have more then a m16. it all depends on the gun not the round by its self but its a nice place to start but the way they are doing it has flaws.

[RememberThe357]

“we have a huge set of texture resolutions and formats so would waste a lot with many fixed pools”

What?

[LakerGamerEnthusiast]

I didn't understand this also, but my first guess was that maybe it would waste alot of memory on your hard drive to fix the many parts of the game? idk not sure tho..

[Deadman64]

+1 can someone translate this?

[Yodagamer]

basicly i think they are refer to the disc as a fixed data, where it can only read info so fast, but a hard drive can run at a faster speed and can stream in higher resolution textures without the delay that a disc would cause

[3GenGames]

Wrong, they have so many textures for so far out in the draw space they just couldn't add them all inside the alpha/beta download for consoles. And also as they say, alsy they have them in a couple formats. The probably took some loss on the ones in the alpha/beta to compact them better.

[Themba76]

this can be done in consoles rage is a fine example of this

[OcularVision]

Nobody seems to care that they essentially nerfed snipers by making bullets become weaker with range??

[Kleptic]

? who on earth would actually want to make sniping easier?...accept the snipers?...did you play the beta at all while not playing as recon?...

And being 'nerfed' because of trying to incorporate real world physics into projectiles in the game?...If you think you have the horses to back up a complaint like that, I encourage you to take that over to the official forums...just 'be advised' you probably won't make many friends...

[caseh]

I found the sniper rifles to be pretty much useless when I used them, 2-3 shots for a kill. Yet being shot by them was 1 shot kill almost every time.

Glad they are nerfing the bullets by range though, the amount of scrubs in the Beta sniping from about a mile away from objectives was ridiculous.

[Kleptic]

yeah that easily had the most complaints of anything i read around the beta...too many people sniping...even with attacking players sneaking into spawn points...

and the latency problems associated with moving...which made you HARDER to kill if you were remaining still...if you were moving, the bugs with the instakill were everywhere...that is game breaking, so hopefuuly that is all worked out for release...

[hesido]

Guys, is it me, or did they remove gravitational effect on the bullets? I loved it in BC2, it was really rewarding to get a headshot by taking the distance into account and aiming higher. I'd be sad if they removed it.

[frostypants]

I dunno...in the beta I think there is bullet drop for sniper rifles. Feels like it to me anyway. I thought they were supposed to add it in for all weapons.

[Euthanasia78]

I'm no expert, but I'll give this a try. I assume a 50cal sniper shot from 20ft would do more damage than a shot from across the entire map hiding in a bush. Just a guess tho. It's simple physics really. The longer the shot, the less damage. Plus, U have to account for the bullet falling lower as it fly's across the entire map. Obviously, you want to hide in a bush at your spawn with full power. You could always play another game. One that doesn't rely on real life variables.

[DaTruth]

I'm not agreeing with him, because less damage at a distance obviously makes sense, but one could argue in reality, a bullet at almost any distance fired from a sniper rifle into the head or body... will kill your @$$.

But since most guns in real life will kill you or leave you temporarily physically disabled, but not in games, this is acceptable!

Why should one gun with a scope that gives an already huge advantage, get another huge advantage by killing with one hit from a huge distance?

[OcularVision]

By your logic, a 50cal sniper shot wouldn't rip a guy's arm off from a like a kilometer away?

[Euthanasia78]

No, I'm saying a 50cal sniper bullet wll do more damage (rip an arm off sure) at 20ft than 1000 yds. That's all I'm saying.

[Hazmat13]

how long would it take to download the texture pack for PS3?

[eak3]

I thought it was an optional install already on the disc?

[hesido]

It would be utterly stupid of them to not include it on the mighty Bluray.

[tubers]

Hi Res Text Pack =

Either Marketing B.S. - Why not release it as the "standard"?

Or

They'll be "optimizing" it more but can't meet the deadline for retail.

The former sounds more likely IMO.

[3GenGames]

It's neither dumb@ss. It's the cap limit of the download for the beta, so they left out many textures and also nurfed some for space because they had to get it ready. Don't worry, this game will be fully done when it's out, DICE doesn't release unfinished crap.

[hesido]

The reason for the pack is not a last minute marketing decision based on negative feedback, but it was a decision to keep the install size small for Ps3 if one wanted, and to fit as much as possible to a single DVD for Xbox360, and making the install optional was the way to go as not every console has a harddisk, and what Yodagamer said.

[RegorL]

There still exists diskless Xbox 360...
- so the install has to be optional on Xbox.

I read that the install was mandatory on the PS3.

Ohh.. and I expect the texture pack to be a lot bigger than a few MB, rather a few GB why else would they need more than one DVD for Xbox?

[damnyouretall]

i dont know much about tech. im only hoping it helps the game look slightly better. this is what they lead me to believe anyways

[Kamikaze135]

high res pack? Am I missing something here? Is the console version going to be playing at 1080p?

[KonGreat]

Damnit, just give me 64 players on the xbox and I'll be happy. A superplayer pack or something instead of a high res pack!