DigitalFoundry: Killzone 2 Latency Analysis

How much lag is in Killzone 2 controls? This was Digital Foundry's initial attempt at framecounting. Note that the result is only "ballpark". Subtract three frames from the final result to compensate for the latency of the Dell screen used here.

[Meus Renaissance]

I bought a DS3 for Grand Theft Auto IV and I felt a little "lag", or controller latency, when moving the character and especially driving. As you can see from the tests, GTAIV isn't the quickest game with the thumb but I swear the added weight of the controller emphasised that (at least for me).

Killzone 2, well I don't know what to say. Loved the game. The forums were screaming about the "delay" in the aim for the guns but said it was intentional. I tried to play it but never felt in control and so couldn't really enjoy it that much. Sold it off but I heard it was patched. Guerilla made a massive design mistake. There were a lot of returns of the game in the local game stores near me and I'm pretty confident it was for that reason, the game in itself was amazing. But some people love that deadzone feature. The fanboys will disagree because its a PS3 exclusive but the fact they patched it eventually vindicates my point.

Halo 3 - because you need to jump about a headless chicken in the game, it is just so damn quick. If you're in form, that's good but if you haven't played in a while then its unforgiving. It's actually intimidating for me personally.

[Jager]

For Killzone 2, they didnt patch it, they added an option to make the aiming quicker for those who b!tched about it in the first place. players can still use the original aiming, which is what i still use, because, guess what? there was nothing wrong with t in the first place. Just noobs QQ about no auto lock / aim assist.

[josuttis]

I really hope other developers are studying Killzone 2's amazingly immerse controls.

Kiddie arcade shooters like Call of Duty and others where the player movement and guns act like a weightless gun on a stick just don't cut it anymore.

Killzone 2's linkage of weapon control with the player's animation and movement gives the player an incredible feeling of actually being right there on the battlefield.

Bunny hopping around and doing instantaneous 180s just feels retarded now. It was fun back in the 1990s in early fps games, but gaming has moved on and the bar has been raised by Guerrilla Games.

[raztad]

@Meus

So, if someone disagree with you is a fanboy?

KZ2 controls is not everybody coup of tea, specially for COD4 lovers but this is nothing new (they were already present in KZ1 in a lesser way) and many hated the game because of it.

I do love KZ2's, it is a signature feature and force you to act more tactically cause it is not possible to do a split-second spin if someone flanks you. Onlines matches are always full, and a lot, so I'm not the only one that enjoy the game.

[ATY]

The lies about the Killzone 2 controls were the last bit of desperation after a every other bit of FUD thrown at the game failed.

First it was gaming TV program that intentionally edited Jack Tretton talking about Resistance running live right there at the show over the Killzone 2 trailer to make it look like he was lying.

Then after Sony demoed Killzone 2 running live on PS3s that matched the 'impossible CGI' trailer, the FUD switched to claiming the game will suck because obviously if the graphics are that good...

Then after everyone was going nuts over the multiplayer beta and claiming it was the best or one of the best fps games they ever played, the FUD switched to claiming the single player would obviously suck if the multiplayer was so good

Then the amazing review rolled in and there was nothing left to try to trash the game.

Making up lies about 'controller lag' was the last bit of desperation to try to damage the game.

It is funny, and very sad, to see people still actually talking about the lies about the controls as if they were actually real.

[Meus Renaissance]

Calling the gamers who didn't like the controls "kiddies" just shows your own immaturity levels, ironically. A gamer wanting to play an arcade racer instead of a simulator isn't any less of a gamer or an individual - yeah it's true although it might be shocking to some of you guys.

I personally have nothing against trying to make controls more immersive, but in a FPS when the main aspect of the game is shooting (especially online) - you need the player to feel the response of his controls. If he doesn't, then it doesn't matter how good it looks he will not enjoy it.

@raztad

No, people who disagree me aren't fanboys. But whenever this issue of KZ2's controls come up there seems to be a decisive and aggressive attitude towards people who called for it to be patched. Case in point the comments here calling them "kids" or "noobs". They seem to struggle to comprehend that a lot of people may not enjoy such controls.

[Rigmaster]

Half of the garbage and lies spread about Killzone 2's incredible controls was part of the wider attempt by the gaming media to trash PS3 exclusives.

But the other half was all the kids who were use to huge amounts of auto-aim in games like Call of Duty and unrealistic weapons where you just point and shoot. The loaded up Killzone 2 and got destroyed by good players and started crying like babies that it obviously not them but Killzone 2's controls because they were all 'hardcore CoD players'.

Just for a sanity check I went back to the old archives of the Killzone 2 multiplayer threads on various sites. Not a single mention of the controls. Nothing but people going nuts over the mind boggling graphics and what an amazing multiplayer game.

Those controls in the multiplayer beta everyone was raving about were the exact same as the retail game.

[ATY]

Guerrilla Games pulled off one the most amazing ownages I've ever seen by a company.

Back when the gaming boards were filled with non-PS3/Killzone 2 owners and players from arcadish shooters like Call of Duty screaming about 'teh controls', Guerrilla Games released a patch to the game and brilliantly made a vague statement about controls. But the controls were exactly the same. No changes.

The fools complaining about the controls fell for the bait and started claiming victory:

Some claimed 'teh lag' was fixed
Others claimed no, the acceleration curve was 'fixed'
Other claimed no, the deadzone was changed

It quickly became clear that non of the fools crying about the controls had any clue what they were talking about. It was a masterful way of destroying the controller FUD.

[HDgamer]

I love Killzone 2 controls, I felt in control and that my weapons had weight to it. I honestly didn't see what people meant that the controls were difficult to use, only the part where they wanted to change the inputs to exactly like COD4 which what I didn't like at all. Although this is a sci-fi game it has realistic controls which is kinda funny because COD4 is based on realism but carries the arcade type of controls. Such a deep multiplayer with a great single player story to get into I don't see how anyone can't pass up this great game.

[morganfell]

The twitchers were out of luck with Killzone 2. It requires skill (thanks goodness) I am so glad the CODers cry so much about the game. It's funny watching them come into a K2 match and get hammered.

K2 isn't for the mindless crowd. The coordination and tactical team effort necessary to win in Warzone combined with the weighty and immersive controls simply floor any other FPS title currently in release.

[HDgamer]

This is the type of game that you don't need to run and gun. Take your time, wait till the enemies come in the room either blow them away with explosives, drones or your shotgun.

[Marquis_de_Sade]

I disagree HDgamer, one of my gripes with the game is the guns are too accurate fired from the hip, with the exception of the STA 52, pretty much all the guns can be fired very efficiently form the hip.
Look at this video:

[ultimolu]

Okay, so nobody can challenge your opinion even if they're not a fanboy. I used to have respect for you and your comments but now it's gone.

Good job labeling people like that.

On topic, as a female...I didn't have any problems with the controls. To me, the controls were easy to get used to.

[PLAYstar]

Ok Meus, I myself is a Xbot, but let us just put that aside and have a serious conversation.

Ok so you said those who complain about the controls shouldn't be called as "kids" or "noobs"? Then what you call those who suck so much at video games and still put the blame on the controls? It's a simple question, but I doubt you can answer with a valid point. ;)

[Golfcoachh]

Unfortunately its all fanboys that do this. Ps3 fanboys cry whenever you say anything bad about an exlusive, just as any 360 fanboy crys whenever you talk about rrod or anything else bad about there fav. system. The fact that you made a good observation about this game, from your opinion, and you get that many disagrees and hatred tells you that you hit a nerve. Personally I didn't like KZ2. Now you will see tons of disagree's and I will prob. lose bubles, but I didn't like it. I love my ps3, I loved uncharted, infamous, mlb the show, and I can't wait for uncharted 2, GT5, and the tons of other ps3 exclusives, but I will never understand the venom and hatred by fanboys on each side spewed at the other console. It is sad. Don't believe me, just watch the disagree's pile up and my bubble disapear.

On a side note, I live in Billings Montana, and if you are looking for a ps3 slim, my walmart had 9 this morning when I was there, so anyone in the area, go get one. I already got mine for my bedroom yesterday.

[Rofflecopter]

i liked the controls, but i feel that a game like COD wouldn't work as well considering the fact that its a faster, twitchier game. Killzone had finesse and lots of skill is needed to dominate multiplayer, whereas COD is made to be more of a shooter for everyone.

As far as the hip firing thing, COD was really the first game to completely remove accuracy when not aiming down the sights. Taking Counter-Strike into account, you never aim down the sights unless you're sniping. In Killzone, aiming is simply a way to increase the range of your shooting.

[Real Gambler]

Even if Digital Foundry and Eurogamer look like they love the 360 more, they also did an analysis of Halo 3.

http://www.eurogamer.net/vi...

There's about 3 frames difference between Halo suppositely twiching warp speed trigger and Killzone 2. Now keep in mind that again, results are ballpark, so errors are still possible.

Basically, there would be a 1/10th of a second delay in the trigger.

Can you move out of the way of a bullet in 1/10 of a second? Don't you think that after firing a few hundred bullets, you brain cannot adapt to the small difference? Do you think you can press a typical real life weapon, repetitively within 3/10 of a second (as showed on video).

If I were you, I would not worry or argue about the delay.

[fishd]

Translation:I can't aim for sh1t unless the game does it for me

Maybe you should stop playing Cod

[Headshot81]

the contols are perfect, since they match up both the Key & mouse/DS3. I've played kz2 at my friends pad where he has the keyboard setup, i could tell you that its just as challenging to become accurate(maybe a really small but SLIGHT advantage).The controls add to the gameplay since we dont have people running around in closequarters with 1shotkill sniper rifles while having TWITCH perfect accuracy. You cant do those twitching 180's, so you need someone to watch your back if you want to live longer=Teamwork. I don't know about you guys, but KZ2 is the best fps out, ONLY for the hardcore. BOOOMMM HEADSHOT81 !!!!!!

[vagisil]

sony is sh1t this gen.

[cmrbe]

There is nothing wrong with KZ2 controls.I honestly love it to bits. God forbid if someone tries to make controls more realistic.

COD4 and KZ2 despite the fact that both are FPS are completely different games. Why don't you see this?.

An honest question to everyone. Do we as gamers want all games to play the same?.Do we all want every FPS game to control like COD?. Alot of you as well as the media b1tch about generic, hell KZ2 is mostly trashed by haters because they say its generic and yet when GG implemented a unique control scheme you guys b1tch about it?.

I have gamed for over 24 years now through 6 console gens. Every game i get to play i learned to adapt to its controls no problem and not b1tch about it because i understand that they are different games and devs have a specific control schemes that they believe is best for gamer to experience their games. Its just amazing how much you kids whine about different control schemes this gen.

[cyberwaffles]

really people, the controls aren't bad if you just practice them. i like weight to my guns and movement like in bad company and killzone 2. i hate cod's false sense of weight when using RPGS and stuff, but cod's main problem is how people bunny hop into a room while laying down to kill someone. how can you jump so high and agile in the air when you got all that equipment and gear on? pisses me off when someone jumps like halo to get a cheap kill.

MW2 seems to be a little bit more weightier though; too bad they have knife throwing and dual wielding guns now. cod just gets noobier by the day.

[vickers500]

It's insanely mind-boggling to read the amount of denial and bs in the comments section. Everyone thinks that realism = best. Look, if you're playing games for realism, then you should stop giving your opinion on gaming, because it is worthless. Killzone 2's controls are laggy, and that's a fact. It's not a issue of weight, it's an issue of response time. You can have a game that feels weighted and has a good response time, but I can tell you right now that Killzone 2 is not that game. Playing KZ2 gives you the same effect that if you hook your ps3's video up into your vcr, and then use other component cables that go from the vcr to the tv.

Try a game like that. You will notice that it lags. That is the same effect that you get in Killzone 2. Look, they don't need to be like call of duty, I'm not saying that. But they should at least be responsive. Something like battlefield's speed, or R1/R2 or even Far Cry 2, which gives a real sense of weight to the weapons, without loss of response time. I think that they had to have the controls that way because of the beauty of the game, but I would have preferred if they had taken out effects that NO ONE can see, in order to make the controls responsive.

And seriously, why do you guys need realism in a game? You act like that is the greatest thing a game can have. You remind me of my dumbass friend, who will only play realistic games, because I guess it gives him some false sense of superiority. This guy thinks that ATV vs MX unleashed is better than motorstorm. He even thinks that it LOOKS better than Killzone 2, because Killzone 2 has that blurry effect, and he thinks that's ugly (I know, hes an idiot).

You "gamers" remind me of him immensely. Realistic games are not the highest form of gaming, and you all need that through your thick skulls.

[DaTruth]

How could you call all the people who like KZ2 controls fanboys, and then cry about "teh venom, teh disagrees".

We disagree that everyone who enjoys KZ2 controls is a fanboy! If you generalize a bunch of people as fanboys, don't be surprised when they generalize you as a "kiddie, who can't play".

Some people on the net say some stupid things and then are surprised when it elicits a bad response! "Lol, I call everyone stupid fanboys and teh disagrees, teh bubble removal, teh venom spewing; what's wrong with teh fanboys!"

[Marquis_de_Sade]

These Ditigal Foundry articles are good, I read an interesting article about WipeoutHD and how they produced such incredible visuals at 1080p60.

On the topic of Killzone 2, I didn't find the controls too bad, the only time I have issues is when I go from Halo/CoD and to a lesser extent SOCOM onto Killzone. But after a few rounds I'm used to it again. I never understood people who cited the controls as a key reason for disliking the game though.

[aldesko]

Same here. I recently played again after a hiatus and it took me a few rounds to get used to it, but then I was back to normal. I hope they don't change it in KZ3.

[spektical]

There was no control latency. The guns just had weight, that's why it was hard to turn around. Most people who play Killzone came from playing CoD which is a twitch game (no realism). Seriously, people in CoD can do a 360 in less than a second and still have perfect aim. I ask you how is that possible. Killzone2 controls are fine and the only people that complain are people who expect the game to be identical to CoD in controls.

I own in Killzone 2 so i know. My psn is extravegant go check my stats if you want.

Besides an old patch made it so people who complained can have there twitch gameplay.

[Meus Renaissance]

I can appreciate some fans wanting to have a bit more challenge in FPS's but to criticise others who want to play video games for fun instead of wanting "realism" in a game is just sad. The frustrating thing was I couldn't adapt to the deadzone which meant whenever I went online and dominated a match or get owned, I never felt joy or anger. It was like the entire match was a fluke and I couldn't enjoy it. What made it stupid was it felt the same when using even a pistol.

GG made a decision at first to add this to make the game "different to other FPS's" and whilst I agree some gamers lack a diversity in their tastes, I felt this example was a mistake by GG.

Killzone 2 would have not have been any lesser if it shipped the way it was post-patch. I don't think people enjoy simulation in their FPS's. The sales and reputations of other games illustrate that

[Cajun Chicken]

"My psn is extravegant"

N4G quote of the week.

[Marquis_de_Sade]

To be fair, I find Killzone 2 rather easy online, aiming down the sights is pointless with the ISA rifle. I haven't played much on my current account - Pvt_Joker_89 - but I have a 2.1 k/d ratio. This includes matches against generals + on the DLC maps, not just low rank scrubs.

[Raider69]

did you watch the video before posting such comment!KZ2 is a good game,but from the looks it seems you have a better way to time latency them digitalfoundry.

[Ravage27]

imo the controls have the right balance, and i consider it to be the best of all the shooters i've played thus far.

There is a very nice sense of weight and recoil in KZ2 and it made shooting a gun extremely enjoyable. Getting a DS3 for this game is probably one of the best decisions i've made, love the rumble when firing a LMG.

Some ppl may have issues with controls and all but i can't understand why GG has to suffer such injustice. When you think about it, KZ2 has faced an endless barrage of criticism(mostly fanboyish bullsh*t) right from the start of development. Everytime GG silence the critics, there will be yet another 'issue' that pops up and gets blown out of proportion. It's like there are many people wanting the game to fail for 'some reasons'. Seriously, there isn't another game i can think of that has to go through such SH%T.

[aldesko]

"I felt this example was a mistake by GG."

And people disagree with you... it's not the end of the world.

[nycredude]

Meus

Just stop commenting cause the more you comment the more arrogant you look. Just because you think people don't like simulation in FPS don't make it true. I love it and I probably will NOT buy cod MW2 cause of it. Fact is twitch fps gaming is best reserved for a mouse and keyboard where it belongs.

As for your week proof that sales of other fps show that people don't want simulated fps, it's bogus.

You are comparing sales for a multiplatform game (assuming you are talking about COD) that is a very popular franchise against the second iteration of a fps that did NOT do very well the first time around.

And for the record they didn't make this decision to make the controls this way with Killzone 2,Killzone 1 had this already.

It's ok to not like the controls but acting like everyone should agree with you is a little childish and very arrogant.

[PshycoNinja]

Killzone 2 gets so much sh^t since it came out its not even funny. I'm a dual console owner and I even know that Killzone gets so much unneeded sh^t.

[Oner]

Some people just don't get it...

WEIGHT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TIME IT TAKES TO PULL A TRIGGER

When you press FIRE it should FIRE instantaneously. WTF!?!? Is so damned hard to comprehend? When I shoot my G19C there is no delay when I pull the trigger! So if GG wanted "realism" then there was no reason for Killzone 2 to have such delayed control latency. PERIOD.

Weight or whatever realism they tried to simulate is absolutely fine. But a delay in action is unacceptable. It is 2 DIFFERENT and separate things. There is more to it as well ~ like why a handgun "weighs" as much as a rocket launcher or fully loaded rifle and THAT also adds to the arguments (but that is yet ANOTHER separate issue but not really a big deal since that is negligible in the realm of play)

Simulation of Weight = Good
Input Timing Delay = Bad

It's that simple. One has to do with TIMING and the other with WEIGHT. I can't say it enough, it's 2 separate issues. BUT they amplify the "problem" when combined TOGETHER. THAT is where people get it mixed up and automatically say "Oh you are just a COD twitch noob shooter" even that in itself is BS since COD4 is not even a twitch shooter...the UNREAL titles on PC is a prime example of a twitch shooter...a HANDHELD controller based FPS can NEVER be a twitch shooter ~ get your definitions straight people ~

Seriously. To those who get it twisted ~ Understand & Comprehend the situation before you throw out labels about something you clearly don't properly "get". The weight & "feel" of Killzone 2 is awesome...but when I press fire it should fire right there and then. It's that easy.

[DaTruth]

You're the one who first commented in the thread and called everyone who doesn't agree with you, a fanboy. How you don't understand the controversy, says much about your intelligence, and your hypocrisy!

[Saaking]

Killzone 2 was better before the patch. Just because these whiny little kids who were used to COD and gaylo. Killzone 2 IS one of the most unique FPS this gen.

[Marquis_de_Sade]

While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I find it sad how you conform to the gamerzone rules.

[Saaking]

What do you mean? I have to follow the rules else I get banned.

[Marquis_de_Sade]

Don't take this personally, as you're certainly not the only one. I just feel like I'm talking to two different people. Which version of you (open zone or gamer zone) do you feel is a more honest representation of you?

[Mo0eY]

I totally agree, man. When they updated with that patch to "fix" the controls, everything was retarded. The controls were heavy to add to realism.

[topdawg122]

Agree KZ2 isn't for noobs and the controls were just fine, just because they weren't as fast as cod or halo everybody started b*tchin. This game makes you think a little more tactically and methodical in order to win

[Saaking]

Killzone 2 is one of the most unique FPS. While all others try to be as close to Halo and COD KZ went a different route and offered a more unique experience.

[Marquis_de_Sade]

In some aspects yes, the storyline is rather cliched, but the controls definitely separate it from the crowd, the only thing I don't understand, is why a pistol "feels" the same as an RPG or shotgun. Overall a top game though.

[Saaking]

Well imo the story was good, or at least as good as most other FPS storyline. I enjoyed it more than COD4 or Halo 3's story and I found it quite compelling. The end definitely had me wanting more.

[Marquis_de_Sade]

Don't get me wrong, it was a solid single player game, I just played it for the fun set pieces and gameplay rather than the storyline as it was essentially WW2 in space.

[Saaking]

True, I saw some connections to WWII. I really hope they do some sort of epic galactic war in KZ3 :)

[hates video games]

No aim assist! KZ2 sucks balls! lol, just joking of course. COD players can go suck a fat one. Lets hope MW2 doesn't have aim assist. Then you get to laugh when everyone is just randomly shooting in the air hoping they hit someone.

[Saaking]

Hahah, MLG is a JOKE. Seriously it's just a big joke. It doesn't take much skill to win in Halo and COD.

[hates video games]

I cant stand when people consider it a sport. Sports have to have some sort of physical activity to actually be considered a sport. Gaming is a hobby period!

[Saaking]

Exactly. These type of gaming competitions isn't about who really is the best, it's about who's faster and better responsiveness. You don't need to train for it, or go through rigorous training, you just need to be faster. I laugh at people who try to pass this off as a "sport"

[Mo0eY]

The only pro games that should be in pro games are the Counter-Strike and Unreal games. Those are the only real games that require MONTHS of practice daily to even think about getting in.

[kevinx1000]

MLG a joke? because they play halo, gears and cod as their flagship games of course. halo is the most skilled shooter out there. other games are just some center of mass spraying, halo = 4 headshots in row.
COD and killzone are the easy wins here.

[cyborg6971]

Your out of your mind and obviously have never played KZ2 to think halo takes skill. If you truly think that pm me your psn id and I'll show you how unskilled you are.

[kevinx1000]

the first time i played killzone i did like the first 2-4 campaign levels and then hopped into multiplayer. i hate the PS3 controller and i was still strugling a lot with the controlls and i was MVP! killzone is some easy, center-of-mass, few hits kill shooter made a little bit more 'skilled' by making the controls harder.

i don't have a PS3 but you can give me your XBL gamertag and i show you how skilled halo is and how unskilled you are.

[N4Gcabbage]

Give one valid reason why halo doesn't take skill.

In halo you shoot 3-round bursts (with the default weapon in MLG). You have to headshot someone 4 times while hitting every single round to kill him. It takes quick reflexes and a perfect aim. In killzone you spray someone for a second and he's dead. It's more who sees who first.

[cyborg6971]

The huge amount of aim assist hows that 2900? Every time I play any cod or any halo my crosshairs are always pulling to and locking on a target. I notice none of this in Klz2. And I love all of them cod (Except the big red one.) All 3 halo's. And killzone 2. Not killzone one as much. Starwars battlefront 1 not sure about two let you take auto aim off in MP Loved that series. And I agree with you 2900 it's who see who first but that's with every FPS.

[kevinx1000]

i agree, but i don't have that with halo. in halo the more skilled people can easily out-br someone (as that's called in halo) it's mostly whoever misses one of the 4/5 headshots is dead in the more skilled games. halo is MLG's flagship game for a reason.

BTW, where's saaking GT?

[skribz]

who notices 12 frames at 60 frames a second?

[OpenGL]

Killzone 2 only runs at 30fps.

[Pandamobile]

12 frames is almost 1/2 a second on KZ2.

[callahan09]

I don't know why their latency is so bad, because nearly half a second is pretty delayed, but when I play Killzone 2 I don't get nearly that bad of a latency between pulling the trigger and seeing the response on the TV.

[iHuGi]

Yes all jokes should be like MLG.

Also they are sponsored by Sony (look at the online KZ2 , R2 or MLB tournaments) , Microsoft , Bungie , EA , dr pepper etc...

EA support them just look at Madden and FNR4 torunaments that happened in dallas last weekend.

Yes MLG is a joke...

ahah

Just because they only accept the better games doesnt mean its a joke , Killzone 2 a sh1t and everyone on 360 knows that and guess what...we are 10x more than u Pstards.

http://www.mlgpro.com/conte...

Oh and Dr Pepper is with MLG.

ahah

Ps3 is the only joke here and its the worst system for competitive gamers...

Get a 360 and stfu...LOL

Noobs , killzone 2 doesnt even have forge or vid saver...Pstards!

[Saaking]

Why would I want an overpriced heater with less exclusives,no wifi, no HDD (arcade version), last gen hardware, extreme unreliability, last gen dvd, battery controllers, not capable of true 1080p etc, etc.

[MONOLITHICIDE]

again r u serious

[ZBlacktt]

Let see smart guy?

Worst reliable console in gaming history ( yet you bought it ).

No Wi-Fi

No Blu-ray, old DVD drive

No Game of the Years and DVD will never have one

Scratches game disc's

Sounds like a helicopter when in use

How do you live with these facts every single day? At any time any PS3 owner could have bought down to the always "cheaper" console. But with a 54% failure rate. I think they have a brain. Anything worth playing on that junk console is multi format. So what's the point in buying junk? Really? It's such junk, old and last gen. Someone like yourself who backs that piece of junk really only shows your intelligence and financial picture.

[kevinx1000]

nice list. 1 legit argument in there that doesn't even matter to me.

[Mo0eY]

Apparently this guy doesn't know that LCD HDTVs have lag between when the controller inputs and the T.V. outputs.

If you truly want to do a study on controller lag, do it with a plasma HDTV.

[OpenGL]

Plasmas suffer from input lag just like LCDs, they just have MUCH better response times(like 0.01ms), so you won't experience any ghosting.

[myothercar]

The latency used to be worse than this. They chopped off 3-4 frames since the retail version. The latency was most noticeable when pressing the fire button. You don't need a slow-motion camera to notice it. Uncharted and Resistance 2 respond to R1 seemingly instantly, whereas in Killzone you can tap R1 and lift your finger off well before the gun fired. Like Guitar Hero and Rock Band, some FPS scenarios involve lining up your reticule waiting for the moving target to come into your crosshairs and then you fire. With latency the moving target is going to already be 2-3 feet past your crosshair.

And no, it's not controller or TV lag- as I said, Resistance 2 and Uncharted are lag-free. Also, scrolling through the XMB with my dpad is instant. Furthermore, it's not "weight," because I'm not even talking about the right stick and turning. I'm only talking about the shoot button in KZ2, R2 and UC:DF.

Gamasutra ran an article on the importance of responsiveness in videogames. You should check it out because it goes into the deeper reasons why gamers need latency-free controls.

[Rhythmattic]

myothercar

I Agree.

Im thinking GG decided it should be like a real Guns trigger. It takes a moment......

Its never instant. No matter what people want to believe.

[AKS]

This talk of "lag" makes it sound like there is some sort of major technical problem with Killzone 2's controls and suggests that they intended to make it weightless like Call of Duty but somehow couldn't manage it, which is complete nonsense. It would have been significantly easier to just tune it like Call of Duty 4, which has a very unrealistic feel even though it's very popular in gaming due to the speed and precision. Killzone 2's controls makes everything feel light they have physical properties and are heavy and powerful.

[Ninjamonkey]

Ive never noticed lag in movements tbh...

But online Ive noticed some kill lag which Ive never had with other games. I'll shoot at someone, stop as theyre behind cover and then they will die. Sometimes this means me using too much ammo for the kill which is annoying since i generally survive until i run out =S

The worst bit is when you shoot saomeone, then they shoot you, you die and then randomly they die because of the bullets you shot, but that one second of lag means that they managed to get me too

It doesnt kill the game, i still love it to pieces but its there.

[Lex Luthor]

Don't worry about the lag and fix the clusterf**k of a multiplayer.

[qwertyuiopasdfghjkl]

This is my one and only gripe with KZ2.

Funny thing is, Skirmish modes and Warzone feel different than SP. I imagine the added extra effects and scripted events to SP, resulting in a noticeable performance hit.

I've played the game on a few different TVs including my ultra quick LCD monitor and a fairly new 480p CRT. And all results are the same. MP modes feel quicker and more twitchy to the touch, while SP feels sluggishly slow.

Not a big deal, but you are completely daft if you believe they purposely made it feel sluggish to give a sense of "weight" to the weapons.

[iceman06]

I believe that those were "design" decisions made by the devs to keep the multiplayer a bit closer to what the average FPS gamer is used to and STILL keep the integrity of the Killzone franchise. That is very similar to why they decided to remove the cover system. To the devs, it would have hampered or altered some of the fun of the multiplayer.

[Spike47]

Why they do is beyond me, but I love my Killzone 2.

[STONEY4]

I never had a problem with the aiming, so when the patch came out with precision aiming, I tried it in sigleplayer but couldn't stand it, so I used the original aiming. But for some reason in multiplayer, it made the controls feel much better for me.

[jjohan35]

Killzone is more tactical than COD, but I wouldn't call it a tactical game. Still a fragfest to me with a million choke points on every level. And I do think that prior to the high precision patch, the game had a strong delay. I have way too many friends who tried the demo, couldn't stand the deadzone delay (and they're not even halo/COD fans), and decided not to buy the game. It was GG's loss, really.

I thought that with the patch, the game became great. Deadzone is different than weighty controls. I don't mind the weight and slow acceleration. But carrying a ton of gear is no excuse for deadzone. In real life (and yes I've served in the military), when you take aim and move, there is no deadzone. Your body responds, even if the acceleration is slow from all the weight. Again there's a difference between a weighty acceleration (which I don't mind) versus deadzone delay. Your body does not pause before moving. Physiologically speaking, either your body is capable of moving with the weight (even if slow) or it can't at all. There is no such thing as delay.

[FragMnTagM]

All other posts after yours including mine, are worthless now...

[ATY]

"I thought that with the patch, the game became great. Deadzone is different than weighty controls."

Gotta hand it to GG. It was a brilliant placebo patch.

Leave the controls exactly the same and all the suckers making stupid complaints about the controls fell for.

GG made you a fool out of you.

[jjohan35]

That's not a bright comment. Simply turn on and off the high precision mode and you can see the difference. If the new patch simply wiped out the previous controls and not let us make the comparison by turning on/off, I might agree that it could be a placebo effect. But your statement resounds with complete ignorance if you are unable to test the controls after turning the high precision mode on/off.

[Oner]

ATY ~ The only fools are the ones who act and talk about the issue as if they know WTF they are talking about.

jjohan35 Is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. Excellent post & description, jjohan35. Agree + Bubbles

[DaTruth]

I've never seen an "adjust controls screen". I just play the game however they default it. It's called adapting!

[meetajhu]

Killzone 2 is the best FPS i have ever played in my life started from Wolf 3d. This game was spoiled because of the "aim lag" coz most of the noobs require an auto aim like in COD or Halo. I hope someday everyone get there hands on Killzone 2 and experience it then they would agree to what i said. This is most realistic FPS i have ever played when it come to A.I,Graphics,Sound and Battle intense. For those who are buying a Slim getting Killzone 2 as ur first priority!

[ipe]

do u have some family problems?
i understand patch,mart,nainai,soda who write some bull trying to be interesting but u?

u have serious problems and u dont have to admit it.

what re u trying to prove besides looking stupid?

[kevinx1000]

Where are the tons of droids from this site in that list?

[boca]

yeah, lag my ass
check this awesome player
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[ThaGeNeCySt]

The lag is why I didn't bother playing much of it online.. just wasn't my cup of tea. Resistance 2 on the other hand... LOADS of fun on and offline. Twitch style is just my preference

[Shrinkwrap]

The Field of View is what I did not like.
Perspective wise, it was to zoomed in, guess to show the wonderful detail.
Squatting and standing just had very little change.

I would have enjoyed this game much more if the field of view would have been wider.

Still a beautiful game with top notch AI.

[Tee7soo]

i'm now going to the store to get Killzone 2
cant wait to kill some helgast yaay .

[DelbertGrady]

Killzone 2's controls aren't awful. They are "hardcore" lol!

[topdawg122]

Yeah they are for the hardcore, thanks for admitting that

[likedamaster]

I see what you did there Soda. Most people know a turd when they play one.

Turd, n.

1. A piece of excrement originating from a Developer by means of defecation.

[Karum]

You know I liked KZ2's controls. I found it refreshing to play a shooter whose controls didn't allow you to be carrying full combat gear and do a 180 degree turn on 0.01 seconds.

KZ2 might not have had monster sales like Halo 3 but damn it is a good game with a good storyline and some seriously good multiplayer. Not to mention the support for the game from Guerilla has been excellent.

[gamingisnotacrime]

but man after playing for an hour session with changing objectives I feel exhausted. The intensity of the visuals and controller is top notch.
"Die ISA scum"

[SSJSubgeta]

Click on link for a full explanation and a very good read.
http://forums.shoryuken.com...

[mario888]

Most of you may not remember Starwars Battlefront series for the PS3 and Xbox. Back then you could choose between Auto Aim Lock on and Auto Aim Lock off online Servers . Then came this thing call Auto Aim Assist that made Halo so popular. All games have a certain amount of auto aim but COD4 is the worst out of them all.

The problem now is that so many people are so used to the Auto aim assist games that when they come across a game that will not aim for you they either can't adjust or they just plain suck. These are also the same people stating because Halo and COD sold so much it makes them a better game.

New Flash: The reason that Halo and COD sold so much is because it easier to play and therefore appeal to a wider demographics. Problem is that now you have a new generation of gamers that are so used to auto aim they can't handle a game like Killzone 2.

[Blow Out Your Brains]

If you don't like it, don't play it. Simple as that

[TotalPS3Fanboy]

If people would just practice more, that "lag" will magically disappear.

[COMMANDOBLACK]

TOO MANY FANBOYS!! The game is a good one. I admit. The controls to me are acceptable, but in my opinion it needs a center reset button, or it clicks in once you start running. I like the game,
but some of you guys are grabbing your ankles over this game, and it is sad. To argue about it is... I don't know man. If some one says it's a bad or garbage game, guess what, it's their OPINION! FREAKING CRAZY RIGHT!! I KNOW! who would of ever thought it works out like that?! So now YOU write your OPINION on how it's works for YOU. It's seems like people will die for these games now a days. Plus there are way too many opinion CZARS on these forums for games now.

[Wiitactics]

Killzone 2 controls are like that to make you use cover. If not, you'll be going all out Rambo all the time like when you play Gaylo or Call of Duty. This wasn't a glitch but a game design decision. If you played the game and then think for a moment you would know that this is the only way to make the game more tactical and not the same sh1t all over again.

How can you make the game so people don't always go face to face killing everybody like a Terminator? Add weight to the character and remove the crappy aim assistance.

Just look at Halo 3 ODST (the same sh1t as Halo 3) floating from one point to the other, it is like he is riding on a skateboard with thrusters or something: http://www.youtube.com/watc...

But now watch Killzone 2 gameplay: http://www.youtube.com/watc...

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And why is Eurogamer doing this 6 month later? Apparently they don't have any new material to bash Sony so, let's go back in time to bring old unfair criticism.