150°
Submitted by GamersXTREME 320d ago | interview

Developer Interview with Shin’en: Wii U is “much more powerful than most people think”

Glacier928: "Shin’en Multimedia, a developer that has brought us recent titles such as Nano Assault Neo, Jett Rocket and FAST, is no stranger to Nintendo platforms. I first took notice to them during the GBA’s launch with Iridion 3D, which had mind blowing visuals at the time and a killer soundtrack. We reached out to them to ask a few questions and they’ve taken the time to provide us an interview. Shin’en’s Manfred Linzner shares his thoughts and experiences on developing for the 3DS, WiiWare and Wii U." (3DS, Fun! Fun! Minigolf TOUCH!, Jett Rocket II: The Wrath of Taikai, Nano Assault EX, Nano Assault Neo, Wii, Wii U)

PopRocks359  +   320d ago | Well said
"But they're liars! Heathens! Blasphemers!"

They also seemingly have extensive knowledge of the hardware and have successfully made one of their games look and perform better on Wii U.

"*puts fingers in ears* LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!"

Look, I'm not saying the Wii U will match up to PS4 level specs, but if I hear one more person try to claim it's weaker than the 360 without any real proof, I'll tear my hair out.
#1 (Edited 320d ago ) | Agree(40) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
Eyesoffiction  +   320d ago
Thank you!
-Mika-  +   320d ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

"Shin'en is a developer of video games, based in Germany. The company has been an official Nintendo third-party developer since 1999"

Im going to leave it at that... They're clearly fanboys.
#1.1.1 (Edited 320d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(43) | Report
MegaLagann  +   320d ago
@Mika Do you arms hurt from grasping at those straws?
BattleTorn  +   320d ago | Funny
I know for a fact that it's weaker .............................. ............................... ............................... ............................... ..........

(couldnt resist, sry)

*hands touqée*
PopRocks359  +   320d ago
That's it! Hair gone. It's over. You just made me bald. I hope you're proud of yourself. >:(

(Bubble up for Funny btw)
#1.2.1 (Edited 320d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(1) | Report
CaulkSlap  +   320d ago
http://www.nintendolife.com...

"we can now, categorically, finally rule out any next-gen pretensions for the Wii U"

GPU is based on AMD's RV770 series. Circa 2008. Approx 1.5x raw shader power of 360's GPU.

System memory of 2GB (Only 1GB available to games) has a total bandwidth of only 12.8 GB/s. PS3/360 are both 512mb and over 20GB/s. Considering how cheap RAM is it's downright baffling why there's only 2GB of plain DDR3. The bandwidth can only be explained by a horrific deficiency in the CPU design. They have EDRAM in the CPU and GPU to try and compensate but that just adds another development hurdle.

(regarding performance issues in multiplats)"The obvious suspect would be the Wii U's 1.2GHz CPU, a tri-core piece of hardware re-architected from the Wii's Broadway chip, in turn a tweaked, overclocked version of the GameCube's Gekko processor. In many of our Wii U Face-Offs we've seen substantial performance dips on CPU-specific tasks."

GPU somewhat more powerful than PS3/360, but still extremely low end PC tech from 2008. More RAM than PS3/360, yet horrible memory bandwidth bottlenecks. And a CPU based on 12 year old Gamecube technology.

Okay sure if fully exploited through a decent amount of effort, the hardware will marginally outperform consoles built in 2005/6. My question is why that is at all acceptable? And if you don't care, then why do you defend the hardware? I don't mind the console at all and will definitely get one eventually. It's just as a piece of electronics in 2013 at $300/350, I find it a complete joke.
MNGamer-N  +   320d ago
"My question is why that is at all acceptable? And if you don't care, then why do you defend the hardware?"

Because it's about the games, not megahertz and gigabits. Your post sounds like a computer science term paper. I play consoles for the games. You sound like you would prefer to take apart your system and put it back together again instead of play a game on it. Most people do not care, and with each advancement in technology it becomes less and less relevant. Did I have fun playing a game on it? If yes, then success.
Theyellowflash30  +   320d ago
"EDRAM in the CPU and GPU to try and compensate but that just adds another development hurdle."

For the lazy ass american developers.

And sorry, there is still 30% of Nintendo's custom logic that's unaccounted for.

Are you trying to tell me you know more than Shin'en? Bitch please
CouldHaveYelledUiiW  +   320d ago
The problem is there is a difference between speed and efficiency.
There are chips that run slower GHz and with less heat that can skunk older chips that run with more GHz.

The on Chip (CPU) memory allows a convenient place for memory to be stored so that the Chip does not have to constantly re-fetched dropped data.

Plus, the faster GPU handles Physics/graphics better than 2008 consoles.

>Comparing a Cell in the PS3 and a Core in the WiiU chip is not the same.
CaulkSlap  +   320d ago
@MNGamer-N. Yes games are what matters most. And so far the Wii U lacks them severely. It will do fine eventually with a price cut. I'm really just addressing people who bother to defend the actual physical hardware of the system.

@Theyellowflash30 - No I certainly don't know more than him. But unless we're reading different words he said absolutely nothing to indicate the Wii U's capabilities relative to non-Nintendo systems.

It's blatantly obvious that the Wii U is barely a step above 360/PS3, yet launched 7 years later. And frankly whatever optimization of the hardware they can do is irrelevant when you're a full generation behind the competitors. Why do you think there were so few games that pushed the Wii? Not to mention Wii U is going to be shut out of the PS4/XBO multiplat games just like the Wii was.
herbs  +   320d ago
12.8 Gbs per second are the memory speeds if the Wii U has a single bus which may not be the case when both the GameCube and Wii had two. This is also not factoring in the presumed 32Mb of fast expensive Edram which is used as a buffer to supercharge memory speeds. The 360 has 10Mb of Edram for the same purpose and that is how it achieves 22Gbs... The XboxOne is apparently using 32Mb of slightly slower Esram to compensate for its slower Gddr3 for the exact same reason to cut costs and still achieve higher memory speeds. The PS4 doesn't need any buffer because Sony is using the faster Gddr5 in the end this will make there console easier to develop for but at a cost $ ;)
#1.3.5 (Edited 320d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(0) | Report
MasterCornholio  +   320d ago
@Theyellowflash30

"For the lazy ass american developers."

It isnt just for lazy developers, a console that is easier to develop for will just be cheaper to make games for. This gives developers an incentive to produce games for the system. Why would having a console thats easier to develop for be a bad thing just baffles me.

Just look at what happened to multiplatform games early on in the PS3s life they were an absolute mess in comparison to the 360 version. Developers didnt optimize for the PS3 because they didnt want to spend more time on the PS3 version than the 360 version. And thats because the more time they spend on development the higher the costs will be. So its much better to develop something quickly and cheaply than to take a long time and spend a ton of money on developing the same product.
wampdog29  +   319d ago
I'd like to add something to your midterm paper if I may. Since we are going to talk about specs, let's be COMPLETELY honest here. Nobody seems to compare the amount of RAM on the Wii U and PS3/360 realistically. The Wii U has 2GBs of DDR3 RAM that which 1GB is used for games. Now, here's where things get sketchy. Everyone compares this to the 360/PS3's 512MB of Ram and then stops there. Okay? But, the OS's on the 360/PS3 also use some of that RAM. I believe, currently, the OS's on those 2 consoles use about 40MB of RAM. That means, that there is only 452MB of usable RAM (give or take). ALso, let's not forget that the PS3's RAM is even more limited since only 256MB is used for graphics while the other 196MBs (again, give or take) is used for general processing. Wii U has 1 full GB used for both graphics and general processing and this may even increase in the future as the OS becomes more efficient through updates.

I know, that's a lot to take in, but if you're going to try and break things down, you have to do it to the fullest. Also, as someone else mentioned, you never take into account any custom coding or hardware put into the machine.
#1.3.7 (Edited 319d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(0) | Report
wampdog29  +   319d ago
@herbs:

The Xbox One doesn't use GDDR3.... it's just plain DDR3. The rest of what you said makes sense.

@MasterCornholio: You are comparing the Wii U's possible harder-to-develop-for setup to the PS3's??? Really? Over a little RAM issue? The PS3 was hard to develop for due to MANY reasons. A few of those include the Cell CPU, architecture, RAM pool split between graphics and general processing as well as Blu-ray.
GotHDGame  +   320d ago
I know, freaking fanboys are so stupid...Newer tech more ram, and yet Microsoft fanboys still think its better than Wii U in terms of power...ROFL Stupid people...I mean really. I think most of the fanboys are 20 0r younger....I also hope they have fun with their new cable box,and have even more fun shelling out more money for USED games. Also they will have to have their 360 right there if they want to play their old games...and can not transfer any of their old downloads....Oh yeah and they get a nice bill to play online....ROFL...
linkenski  +   319d ago
I agree. After seeing Shadow of The Eternals i was convinced that the Wii U can produce spectacular graphics, and Nintendo is likely going to push the limits with their next 3D mario or Zelda.
PigPen  +   320d ago
Shin'en is very outspoken and I like it.
stragomccloud  +   320d ago
And yet again, anything that says something positive about Wii U is largely ignored.
Shok  +   320d ago | Well said
Insomniac: Never developed on a Nintendo system, ever, word taken as factual.

Shin'en: Proven devs of Nintendo platforms, word is ignored or is called a lie.
gamer42  +   320d ago
Why doesn't nintendo just buy them already?
Trago1337  +   320d ago
Well, they've actually DEVELOPED for the platform, but it's obvious that they don't know what they're talking about...

*N4G logic*
Kevlar009  +   320d ago
Retro Studios is gonna blow our F***** minds I can feel it. If they're anything like they were on GC or even Wii, it alone is gonna be worth getting a WiiU, no questons asked.

E3, y u so far away?
wampdog29  +   319d ago
Exactly. That's why I don't fight with naysayers. I'll just wait for the proof to arrive. Hell, "X" looks like that should have been enough to show what the Wii U can do, but apparently not.
CaulkSlap  +   320d ago
You guys are really grasping for straws if you take meaning from a statement with no frame of reference or direct comparison to other hardware. What is his idea of "what most people think"? And given his development history of exclusively Nintendo systems, he's only really comparing hardware to previous Nintendo systems. Yeah no shit the Wii U is significantly more powerful than the Wii. But just like the Wii was, it's not even close to what we should expect out of a modern console. Outdated hardware that's not worth the asking price.

But he is right that what matters is the games. If Nintendo gives a price cut and can come up with games to justify its existence, then the WiiU will make a fine companion console to a primary gaming device.
Theyellowflash30  +   320d ago
What most people think, doesn't beat what a proven developer knows.
truechainz  +   319d ago
"Yes games are what matters most. And so far the Wii U lacks them severely. It will do fine eventually with a price cut."

You say games matter most, then say the Wii U lacks games....so your answer to that is a price cut? The Wii U will do fine eventually with more games. Games create the value. As much as you try to show that you think games matter most, you clearly don't truly believe that, and it is sad to see when a gamer loses sight of why gaming is fun in the first place by getting too wrapped up in the hardware.
neogeo  +   320d ago
(M-E-T-R-O-I-D)
MNGamer-N  +   320d ago
This game is well worth the cash for WiiU, pick it up if you haven't already. It's like the old school arcade shooter action, with a bumpin' soundtrack. Kinda short but there are lots of additional challenges to unlock which gives it some replay value.
#10 (Edited 320d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
MegaLagann  +   320d ago
Dear god the thread about this on NeoGaf was both hilarious and sad. It amazes me how a homeless bum will say the Wii U is underpowered and it's the top story on Kotaku. But a developer says something positive about the system and it either gets ignored or people claim they're fanboys, because we all know people on the internet know more about the system than people who actually develop for it. I'll leave it at this, in two weeks there may be a game there from a developer in Texas, don't be surprised when you see it and find out it's running on the Wii U.
L6RD7BLU3  +   320d ago
@Mika trying so hard to expose fanboys shows that your a fangirl as well judging by your past post
Canary  +   320d ago
Who cares how powerful the WiiU is? Hardware ain't its problem. No games is its problem.
FinalomegaS  +   319d ago
In the 7 months the system has been out, what is the status on the defect rate? I mean the system has been clocking in a lot of hours.

besides something that can be fixed by system update. Talking hardware problems.

no BSOD,YSOD?

I've put about 400 hours on MH3U and 400 on ME:3SE and give or take all the other games, so about 1000 hours not including the miiverse time. That's already more than the total amount of time I spent on the old wii, no system issues yet(maybe not until a few years)
#14 (Edited 319d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
yugovega  +   319d ago
I've seen no one complaining on miiverse of hardware issues either. I've used mine none stop be it Netflix, miiverse,vc or even wii games and no issues and bought it day 1. and everyone says it has no games? funny I have plenty and I buy new ones almost every week.
#14.1 (Edited 319d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
FinalomegaS  +   319d ago
yup,

is pikmin3 local MP or online?
PrimeGrime  +   319d ago
Shin'en wasn't even pushing power on the systems they were previously on, so why does the Wii U or power in general even matter to them? Has anyone even seen the games they make? They are far from impressive.

Since Shokio wanted to bring up Insomniac for some stupid reason lets compare the two..

Here is a list of all the games Shin'en has made.

http://www.shinen.com/games...

Here is a list of all the games Insomniac has made.

http://www.insomniacgames.c...

Shin'en games may be fun but anyone who thinks they know about pushing boundaries graphically or a console period is a lunatic.. Not saying they can't but they never have and still haven't with their current Wii U games. Insomniac very well may not have developed on Nintendo systems like Shin'en has but at the same time they make games that take far more time and work than anything Shin'en has made.

If you want to compare the games in terms of fun that is all up to you but trying to compare Insomniac and Shin'en in terms of pushing graphics and power in consoles.. There really is no comparison between the two at all looking at their games.

So yes when it comes to a developer talking about "power" and "limits" I would rather take the word of a developer who is making games that have in that respect, not a developer who has never made games before on that scale and still hasn't.

To talk about power and all that nonsense knowing all the people who have worked on Nintendo systems over the years.. For me personally coming from Shin'en it is a joke, someone I would never expect to even see talking about this. I'll take tons of other Nintendo developers word over these guys, that is all I am saying.

They haven't pushed any system enough to know that, coming from them anything would be considered very powerful simply because their games were never opening doors in the first place and still aren't even on the Wii U.

Even what they have done on the Wii U currently is nothing special.. I am sorry but that is just the truth. I don't get where these developers even get off trying to enter the whole "console wars" with statements like this without work to back it up.

Insomniac has work to back up their statements about systems and power. Shin'en has never made games like that, So I don't understand why they are even bothering talking about it.

One thing to be a fan but to be a stupid one? I mean honestly look at Shin'en's games.. Do you seriously think their new games are going to be breaking any ground this time around based on that? Sadly I don't. They have made games for years and none of them have broke ground.
wampdog29  +   319d ago
Far from impressive????? Have you seen Nano Assault on Wii U??? It's pretty slick looking actually.

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