Major events that provide the collective voice of an industry occur every year, and so the National Football League has the Super Bowl, the NCAA has the Final Four and the gaming industry has E3.
No matter what people on the outside think of this business or event, it is the one time during the course of the year that the gaming industry collectively stands up as one to let the world know games are a part of our culture.
In a series of exclusive interviews with Examiner.com, you will get the chance to hear what many individuals, who are all differently involved with this industry, have to say about the lens they view the Electronic Entertainment Expo through.
There are two reasons why all those Bethesda studios closed, and neither of them have anything to do with Bethesda (directly)...
Game Pass and Activision.
The guy confirming what we've all (well, most of us) been saying since the latest purchase.
Remember the relatively common counter that went something like "I'm sure you arm-chair CEOs know better how to run a company than the biggest company in the world"?
I mean - there's a lot to running a company for sure, but on this topic it's hard to understand how Phil and team didn't see this coming.
Phil and team knew it was coming and planned for it. It's not even a conspiracy, it's simply the business of cutting costs and superfluous studios after a major acquisition. They don't give a damn about Tango Gameworks or other small creative studios that won't recoup their losses. They don't care about investing in this industry. They have no interest in risky and expensive new IP. They are only interested in profiting off ownership of Bethesda IP, Call of Duty and Candy Crush.
I guarantee you that not one single game under their banner will improve or become bigger and better.
Welcome to the Xbox family, what a pathetic joke.
Anyone who continues to support this, enjoy your future, because this is it. Ninja Theory is next, and Perfect Dark after that.
Especially not with the evidence of tons of existing movie streaming subs out there and how they fail to make a profit with over 100m users each quarter.
It's actually really simple. CEO don't have it hard at all...they make decisions that everyone else has to accomplish. It's the actual low level employee leadership that makes things work well.
Besides that it is obvious when you use simple math that something was going to break.
Apparently they're debating if they wanna put the new Cod on Gamepass or not.
Either grow GP with Cod or don't put it on GP and grow the revenue the traditional way while GP will suffer.
The mess that MS puts themselves in.
LOL the cheerleaders for the ABK acquisition were all cheering for CoD to be on GP day 1 and they were adamant that Jim Ryan was scared because of THAT and was fighting for the survival of the PS brand if CoD is taken away or given day 1 on GP. hahaha...now suddenly MS is unsure if they wanna put CoD on GP day 1??
isn't this false marketing? they said ALL (not some) 1st party xbox games will be released on GP day 1 and CoD is now 1st party starting last year! it's right there still on their website.
https://www.xbox.com/en-US/...
lawsuit time??
@badz149
People were being blind fans. Things is if you look at things objectively and logically since inception, gamepass from a business perspective was never going to be good idea unless you had hundreds of millions subscribed, which Microsoft was never going to get in a timely manner.
People kept pointing out the cons and people kept having their hands over their ears. I wonder how guys like Orchard and Septic who were rooting for the acquisition to go through like people do when their team makes it to the Superbowl are receiving this news lol
Honestly i think Bethesda needs to buy themselves out of zenimax/MSs hands and do their own thing, i honestly think that would fix a lot of issues and save them from a potential closure.
There's a reason they sold in the first place. And Bethesda is not closing anytime soon lol. As much as I hate the studio closures. They were all small studios 2 of them were mobile studios.
I think these are growing pains and Xbox will get back on track. But they're not getting any more passes.
I’d like to see your reaction to being growing pained out of your job after the launch of a successful product.
Excuses, Excuses, excuses.
If growing pains have been happening for the best part of a decade, they're not growth.
Zeref nii San
I'm sorry but xbox has been rightfully bashed due to constant incompetence
Yet you literally just gave them a pass, being "small studios" or "mobile studios" is irrelevant. There's no excsue for closing Tango, none. They praise the game, they PR talk about it's the kind of game the company needs and yet they shutter the developer, that's foul on every level.
Ah Zeref head in the sand like a idiot. Gamepass is a absolute failure like we all told you. Nothing at this point will turn this around. It's not growing pains, the growth is done. Even streaming with 100 million subscribers can't turn a profit and you think Xbox with Gamepass will turn it around? Lol.
It's not a coincidence that Xbox stopped announcing Xbox Gamepass numbers just like they stopped announcing Xbox One hardware numbers and no Series S/X numbers which are behind the Xbox One even.
Remember when we said Xbox customers don't buy games?! Lol. Well this confirmed literally everything we told Xbox fans that said Gamepass was very profitable? Sorry revenues and lack of profit suggest otherwise
Can't wait to see your reaction when their 2nd round of closures happens. Perfect Dark studio and Ninja Theory will next.
No, this isn't growing pains. Xbox has been on the scene for over 20 years.
This is Microsoft not being content with competing, they want to own and control the industry. Buy out as many major devs/publishers as possible so that they own all the IPs. It's only the IPs they care about. Not the Studio's, not the people. They're an insidious, cancerous company and are the worst thing to ever happen to the gaming industry.
Bethesda greenlit Redfall, launched Fallout 76 in the condition it was in (and the fiasco with the bonus bag), and spent all that time on Starfield finishing it as it was with that same engine. Wolfenstein Youngblood exists because of them too, not Microsoft.
Are you *sure* leaving them alone would actually result in a better outcome, not just a different one?
A lot of this excessive monetization, and GAAS crap started when Zenimax decided to start looking for a buyer. Not a coincidence that there was a sudden shift in prioritizing profits above quality or even coherence at the same time. They wanted big numbers to attract buyers, now that they've been bought, MS wants exactly what they were baited with.
However even under Zenimax they made enough to self publish sometimes, so i would imagine it's not too far fetched that they could pay their way into independence if they REALLY wanted to.
Also even people at Bethesda and Arkane were hoping MS would cancel the game as again, they were forced to make something they didn't want to make.
Havent seen any decisions since the buyout that lead me to believe MS knows what to do with them either . Easiest one would have to be the fallout 4 upgrade...with minimal effort it could have been a big win for leadership...but nope we got a standard Bethesda release for a patch.
Tacoboto. Bethesda greenest it to be made. Ms greenest the release. Remember phil telling us he don't know what happened because it polled well behind closed doors. Nice try on that one with redfall. In the end it was on Ms not Bethesda
Ah, we can see how the Microsoft media machine works.
Every article I read now is some kind of attempt to shift the blame off Microsoft and paint them as the victims or convince people that Microsoft mistakes were just some kind unforeseeable unfortunate twist of fate.
The shills are out in full force today.
This is not at all what this article is saying. It's saying that honest and useful studios are getting closed because of big money deals elsewhere and the faults with game pass as a model.
I understand what the article is about.
It's a deflection, it's a putting the cart before the horse article.
Let me tell you how this problem wouldn't have existed in the first place.
Microsoft not creating a service funded by subsidization and having the foresight to see that it would disrupt consumer spending habit to begin with. Then not buying Bethesda and undertaking costs for a service that was already failing to pay for itself because their own expectations of Game Pass having "billions" of subscribers was unobtainable from the very start.
And if you don't think that was the case go back to the article on the day Game Pass launched and read the comments from people from day one who foresaw that this would be an unsustainable model and would cause people to stop spending in the same way.
***Microsoft not creating a service funded by subsidization and having the foresight to see that it would disrupt consumer spending habit to begin with.***
This article literally supports this opinion. He's not praising Game Pass or the ABK purchase.
This is an explanation of why it failed, there is zero blame put onto Microsoft itself.
Yes, it talks about what went wrong, but it doesn't say Microsoft shouldn't have done it. It doesn't say Phil should have foreseen this outcome and stopped before it got to this point.
"convince people that Microsoft mistakes were just some kind unforeseeable unfortunate twist of fate"
Thats what I took from the article. Maybe we're mistaken Christopher lol
It saying why it failed puts enough blame on Ms imo. Eben if they didn't come put and say fk Ms etc.
***but you're seeing the impact; all those smaller studios making really interesting games are going to fall away, simply because as good as games like Hi-Fi Rush are, they're never going to make enough money to make up that $70B hole that Xbox now has to dig itself out of.***
If you see that as support or you explicitly just want people to end their argument with "and, in conclusion, Microsoft bad" then that's on you. This article does not support Microsoft's choices and highlights the faults. Nothing it says is good about these choices, even saying that putting CoD on Game Pass would be money losing for them because they've set themselves up for failure (and not putting it on there will drop subscriber numbers like crazy, meaning their Game Pass plans were shit to begin with).
No matter how you look at it, they're saying Microsoft made decisions that hurt the bottom line, force closures, and leave Game Pass in a situation where they lose no matter what they do. It's all negative.
Christopher, if Microsoft hadn't made Game Pass and bought a bunch of publishers would this article even need to exist?
***Christopher, if Microsoft hadn't made Game Pass and bought a bunch of publishers would this article even need to exist? ***
How is this an argument to anything being discussed? This is just as valuable of an argument as "if fish had stayed in deeper waters, they wouldn't have evolved to tetrapods, adapted to shallow water and then to land, and we wouldn't even exist and have to worry about game pass at all."
You're bringing nothing to this argument and then complaining that other people are highlighting the issues with Game Pass and spending tens of billions on studios because what we should be discussing is what it would be like if Microsoft hadn't done any of that.
Well, they did do it. Now pull up your big boy pants and join in on the discussion of what that has meant for the industry since then and, especially right now, how that is affecting the industry and game studios under Microsoft. None of us are able to go back in time and change what was done.
Christopher, this isn't me not understanding what the article is about, it's you not understanding what I am saying.
If you want me to make excuses for Microsoft's bad decisions you're not going to get that or just agree with people who are doing that, it's not going to happen, nor are you going to convert me into thinking xbox "needs to exist".
Ya know what, maybe "Microsoft bad".... maybe their decisions ARE having a negative effect on the industry, and instead of deflecting from their actual actions and making excuses for them we stand up and say "no" "Microsoft is hurting the industry"
And maybe, just maybe, it was so obvious that this was going to be the outcome that even nobodies in comment sections on websites were able to easily predict this outcome, yet Microsoft did it anyway then kept doing and even when it became undeniable that it was having a negative impact on their business and and the industry itself, then they knowingly made even bigger purchases and caused more problems.
And the one thing you're right about is that I can't go back in time, but I CAN speak up and try to keep it from happening again...
Maybe if the people who were speaking up 7 years ago were listened too we wouldn't be having this discussion and Tango and Arkane would still be in business along with all the other people who have lost their jobs due to Microsoft's actions.
Do you like analogies?
What you're saying is like an alcoholic crashing their car then trying to explain it by saying it was caused by everything except the fact that they were dunk because they are an alcoholic and don't want to stop drinking.
Why the excuses here? Microsoft did one thing no other company can do which is subsidize Xbox with these insane purchases in hopes of suffocating the industry out in hopes to be the last one standing so they can charge whatever they want.
How are you excusing this crap even and putting your head in the sand here? It's pretty clear who is at fault here for the situation they built and put themselves in. It's them trying to push everyone around with cash that no one else can compare.
They knowingly did all that and now are trying to pretend the market is to blame? Lol. That is absolutely rich irony. That you can't see the forest for the trees here too.
The article is essentially focusing the blame on MS. GamePass was a hail mary play to change the gaming paradigm and carve out a special niche for themselves, emulating the Netflix model, that might have led to MS becoming the leader in the long-term. Unfortunately, the subscriber growth isn't really there, and the model isn't really built to weather that lack of revenue. MS is now in a restructure mindset to figure out how they balance out their model in a way that can still make them money.
've always believed that GamePass was a high risk shot that had a very low chance of long-term success. But the problem with it, whether it succeeded or not, is that it accelerated the proverbial "race to zero" consumer expectation that ran its course in the mobile gaming industry in the late 2000s. When consumers start thinking that games should be "cheap" (as in through a $10/month all-you-can-eat subscription model), it turns the narrative against games being priced at realistic levels. So with the GamePass failure, they've not only sabotaged their market share, but they've impacted the entire industry and devalued the cost of game development to the average consumer. So now it's harder to develop mega-big budget games and to earn the revenue needed to pay for them.
***If you want me to make excuses for Microsoft's bad decisions you're not going to get that or just agree with people who are doing that, it's not going to happen, nor are you going to convert me into thinking xbox "needs to exist". ***
No one is asking you to make excuses for Microsoft's bad decisions nor is anyone asking you to convert to anything.
***Ya know what, maybe "Microsoft bad".... maybe their decisions ARE having a negative effect on the industry, and instead of deflecting from their actual actions and making excuses for them we stand up and say "no" "Microsoft is hurting the industry" ***
Literally no one here is doing this. They're literally discussing how Microsoft's decisions have hurt the industry. Except you. You're rambling about why people aren't complaining about Microsoft when people are in fact complaining about Microsoft.
*** And the one thing you're right about is that I can't go back in time, but I CAN speak up and try to keep it from happening again... ***
Then perhaps actually add something to the conversation other than calling people shills when people are complaining about the decisions and repercussions of Microsoft's actions.
Christopher, you're fighting a block wall here - Ein will continue twisting and contorting any remark to fit his self-created narrative.
"Then perhaps actually add something to the conversation other than calling people shills when people are complaining about the decisions and repercussions of Microsoft's actions."
Cristopher, in no way is the author of this article complaining, they are explaining what happened it's literally the title. They never once say that Microsoft shouldn't have bought Zenimax or Activision or that Game Pass was a bad idea to begin with. They think the problem with Game Pass is that it didn't grow fast enough, not that it was a bad idea from the get go.
BTW this is his job title.
"Public Relations and Communications Leader"
What do you think a Public Relations and Communications Leader does to make money?
Edit: I have read a dozen of these articles that just started coming out in the last 24 hours that are trying to shift the conversation away from blaming Microsoft, the shift here and in several other articles is trying to say it just didn't gain subscribers fast enough, not that it was a bad idea to begin with that was doomed to fail or placing the blame on anyone.
It was all just an unforeseeable outcome, no one should be held responsible it was just a billion dollar oopsie that's costing thousands of people their jobs and has caused a downturn in the entire industries sustainability.
Oopsie!
It's greed. MS has the IP's it wants now it's dumping the studios that it's raided, MS will still make money from Tango's games unlike the people that made them. If anyone follows MS outside of gaming you'll see this is what they do, buy companies take what they want consolidate some of the workforce and shut them down. I don't know why people are acting so surprised when this is Microsoft being Microsoft.
MS is a three trillion dollar company, if it enters a market it has no need to compete, they take what they want and with the financial influence it can bypass laws that are meant to protect the consumer and the workforce. Just look at how they are cornering the AI market right now with buyups and investments.
Yep. Many of us said gamepass is not sustainable.
Something has to give. Quality dropping, studios and employees getting dropped, games with more MTs , battle passes and a price hike(s) are all needed to make Gamepass even have a chance to be sustainable.
Man we're we ridiculed for this foresight though. Turns out us armchair close weren't all that wrong.
I'm sorry but this is a simplistic answer to a complex problem.
for 1 if the problem was purely Gamepass then we wouldn't see massive cuts across the industry.
Last I checked Game Pass is not on PlayStation and they have the biggest player base.
Now the author mentioned that HI-Fi Rush is a flash in the pants on Gamepass because it's played for a month then it drops making it impossible to recoup investment versus 1st day sales.
And I agree with the established IP making no sense in releasing day 1but HIFi Rush isn't an established IP
meaning that it would have failed no matter what
Sony themselves acknowledged this in an investor call when they mentioned that raising the price of AAA games didn't bring new money for the PlayStation brand but made the consumer more selective with their money favoring established IP.
Is Rise of the Ronin selling well?
How did Lord of the Fallen perform?
And that is the sad real truth for why Game Pass exist
because nobody actually buys unknown or less popular games
Sure everybody claims that if the game is good it will succeed but suddenly excuses are always mentioned when the game failed.
Just remember Gamepass wasn't there to explain
Dishonored and Dishonored 2 lack of sales
Evil Within and Evil Within 2
Prey, etc.
Many people literally showed with 100 million subscribers on streaming failing to turn a profit and how Xbox would also need 100+ million to even be profitable and you guys kept pushing back. They are no where near 100 million even. It's a giant loss of money. Add in COD and the losses will be insane
WTF is the thing with your 100 million subscribers?
MS said they had 34 million subscribers and it's been close to the same for 2 years.
So let me ask you again if Gamepass is not on Playstation 4-5 with the largest user base then why are they having problems?
Why does Square is having problems when they don't care about Xbox?
What's the excuse for Dead Space remake, Alan Wake 2, Rise of Ronin, and countless games not selling on PlayStation?
Gamepass?
This is specifically a Ms problem with buying all those studios and shutting a bunch down. Sony it seems will go more on the pc side but Sony has released anything on Xbox that they weren't forced to do unlike Ms. There's a reason Ms is releasing games on ps and more will come. It's because it's small base cannot sustain all those ips and gamepass has really killed sales. Ms said this themselves
...and overspending on aquisition only to find out they cannot aford to keep what they aquired. It's like an idiot winning the lotto and blowing it all on hookers and blow in loosing it in one night (or like Bobby Kotick rolling his bonus in Macau).
i think we all knew this qould happen really, after the Activision buyout.
but this is just blame shifting in the end. seen a few of them already
I’m not buying HB2, but I will resub for a month to beat it. Such is the nature of GamePass, I guess.
I did exactly this, with A Plague Tale: Requiem which is one of my favourite games of last year and despite having bought the first game. That is Game Pass for you. Now I have A Plague Tale: Requiem sitting on my Steam wishlist so that I can buy it on discount and support the developers in some small way.
Ninja Theory is definitely going down after Hellblade 2. They historically have never made games that ship millions and are thus not in MS' future plans.
Theybmight keep em around a few months to get any sort of patches out that may need but after that I think your right
Short story - MS sucks, MS is woke. Bought many game developers, ruined them, drove off the talent, lost much money, closed them, made excuses.
My perspective over the years is that gaming has become so mainstream that companies looking for profit or new heads trying to make a name for themselves are buying out these gaming companies for profit. They do not care about the vision of the creator anymore. Everything is risky. They want to buy ideas and talent that they never had. Games are barely even on disc's anymore. So many now have to be online. These companies just want to keep selling you stuff as many times and for as long as they can. They want you to act on that dopamine drip. Thank goodness for studios like Larian and From Software. Not even the Big N has stooped this low yet.
I always like it when an "insider" comes out and confirms an obvious truth that everyone with common sense had been saying for years, and it's treated as big news.
All is forgotten if you win the game. Show us what’s coming , hype the hell out of all those games on the horizon, and make sure the next big release on Xbox is actually ready to ship and most of these hate articles will go away
Xbox just needs major first party releases on game pass in order for it to grow. I’m not talking about 1 game a year either but 4-5.
Will it though. Phil himself said they lost the worst generation to lose. And they lost it by a fking huge chunk. I wouldn't be surprised if half the Xboxs bought were for a secondary console or people like myself that buy all consoles at some point.
I won’t be surprised if we find out that this was the plan all along, buy the parent companies, axe all the small studios and put all the focus on the big IPs and shelve all the small IPs for years until they figure a way to turn them into money machines. Or just let them rot. Fuck Microsoft. Cuz it’s either that, or the biggest case of fucking gross incompetence in like a decade. Either way fuck them.
Wedbush Securities analyst Michael Pachter believes it's an incorrect gamers' perception that Microsoft has lost to Sony.
"If we change what our goal is, we're not losing" attitude. Kind of like how Microsoft didn't lose to Valve, they just changed their business model. And they didn't lose to Android and iOS, they just changed their business model. They 100%, after spending 3 generations competing heavily in console hardware, aren't losing to Sony, they're just changing their business model.
You can't ever lose if you just 'change your business model'!
Patcher predicted that take two would be brought out by ea he knows very little about the content of games and is so numbers focused
Yet I remember that he predicted perfectly that there was no way the acquisition of ABK would not go through and that the FTC and the CMA would fold when all the media had It's basically over kind of news.
He mentioned that MS would outsource COD streaming rights (or deny COD from appearing on GP) in UK.
What's kinda crazy to me is - if they retreat from consoles they're left with a business model that depends on making great games that people want to buy.
What has been Xbox's biggest issue over the last decade or so?
It's not like they're falling back to a strength...
They didn't retreat and even promised the biggest generational leap! Where did you get retreat from?
And just think of all those game franchises that are trapped with them, especially those they bought instead of creating.
@Gamer Yeah, just like the One X was a leap. Just like Series X was a leap. What did they bring to the table.....a leap in games? No, they brought sweet f all. Guys like you just never learn or are just dumb, falling for MS' talk talk talk over and over again.
Business is all about money not actual sales. If I sell 1 thing for 1 million and you sell 10000 things for 900k Who really won.
The person who sold 10000 things because he has developed a consumer base and consistent revenue stream while simultaneously showing that he has the capacity to obtain market share.
The person who sold 1 thing for a million hasnt proven much outside of the simple fact that he can get an idiot to pay a copious amount of money for a single product. Holla at me when he has proven he can do it consistently overtime.
This is a nuanced subject matter
How about the gamers perspective
Xbox as a console business is last in the gamersphere. Pivot after pivot, swerve after swerve. If it wasn't for pc the xbox console would died a while back. Console owners need to choose what's best for them, their experiences or the console owners profits
Great. Guess who is in third place (just talking the main console market, not even including mobile and PC) both on software sales, hardware sales, and video game revenue?
***Chris you might wanna do ya research ***
You're right! It's only 2nd place on revenue. Good on you.
"Based on these revenues, we can see that: PlayStation made $11.3 billion more than Xbox, and $14.7 billion more than Nintendo. Xbox made $3.4 billion more than Nintendo."
Now, do you want to find me proof that Xbox isn't in third on hardware and software sales? They've literally cannibalized their own sales via subscription services and their hardware is well known to be last place.
But, hey, Microsoft is okay losing in every category here, why would they get rid of a part of their business that they are in turn (and wasn't accounted for in 2023 numbers totally since it was distributed over 5 years, 2023, 2024, 2025, 2026, and 2027, the cost of their latest purchase) spending more than 7x their annual revenue on.
@Chris I'm glad you did ya research seen you were wrong but you also forgetting this. Revenue isn't everything my friend, remember business is about money
https://www.essentiallyspor...
Oh my days, this is a terrible analogy...
If it was just about money, Microsoft wouldn't be doing a sub model, would they? They are literally making it cheaper than game purchases to get more uptake from more people. The goal is to have enough recurring subs over time to increase revenue (and eventually profitability), but that doesn't work in your assessment because they literally need to "sell 10000 things".
Good grief...
***Revenue isn't everything my friend***
Yeah, you know what that TweakTown report doesn't include? Any of the cost to buy ABK. That makes it a massive loss. Massive.
@DarXyde
That analogy still works, they need to consistently sell those subs to maintain/gain revenue, if they can't constantly sell those subs.
Switch "things" with "Subs", and it still works, but they need to constantly convince people to keep buying that subscription, other people will drop their subscription and revenue will decline.
FinalFantasyFanatic,
I don't think that quite works:
The argument this guy is making actually sounds supportive of Playstation selling a game over Game Pass subs.
Let's take a practical example, Persona 3 Reload.
If Atlus sells you the game at $70 on Playstation and "gives it away" on Xbox as long as you continue to pay for Game Pass, well... Following their logic, wouldn't it be better if fewer people buy it for a higher price than basing it on engagement via more people on XGP? How many people would you need to play P3R on Game Pass to get the same revenue?
Eventually, the latter *can be better*, but there is the matter of a larger install base on Playstation and XGP subs are a fraction of Xbox gamers.
It's a bit ironic and I think biases are on full display because what Philly boi is saying is, in principle, more supportive of the PlayStation model, but the thing is, PlayStation has both a higher price of access AND a larger pool to pull from.
If we want to talk about the manufacturers themselves and hardware, Xbox can be purchased cheaper than PS5, but it is still getting trounced in number of sales and price of admission.
I don't really see how this argument works.
The console war we've been watching for the last two decades has been what I find interesting. I don't really care how much profit MS can make by buying King and running Candy Crush any more than I care how much money they make bleeding businesses for MS Office licenses. That's boring. The fun thing to watch has been the work these companies have put in to try to win the console market.
The obvious rebuttal to Pachter's cray cray notion is that you wouldn't have to change your model if you were winning.
Or "those who win get to change their business model."
Fanboyism ends at a brick wall of "big company no care about whether you like or hate them, get a life."
Sony said similar things when their Walkman was beaten by Apple and when Samsung surpassed them in the TV market. I can go on and on but I'm sure you get the picture. Business is business. All companies take a whippen every now and and then. The difference is how you bounce back. Microsoft net worth has grown over the years. Business wise they are very successful and no matter what, sony would love to be where they are financially. Sony isn't the competition microsoft worries about. That been clear for a long time now. Microsoft wants gaming to be a part of their ecosystem. Sony needs it. Big difference there.
There's a lot wrong here.
First, the attempt to turn this argument into one about other failed businesses. Which, surprisingly, you make the argument I'm making but then...
Second, the attempt to confirm that Microsoft isn't competition when Microsoft admitted in court that they are.
Third, the attempt to act like Microsoft, from a business perspective, doesn't need what they spent over $100b to acquire but Sony does? Laughable.
Businesses are about profits. If you stop earning enough profit in a division, it goes away. Simple as that. Xbox is a division competiting against Valve, Epic, Sony, Nintendo, Android, and iOS. Simple as that. Xbox, to remain 'part of the ecosystem' needs to not cost the company more than it brings in. Simple.
They actually won.
The whole point was to force Sony into playing ball so that they could not put “windows” in more jeopardy than it was at the time.
Apple, Google, then Sony innovating while partnered with Linux…
When will people realize it has never been about gaming as to why Microsoft got into gaming?
Trojan horses people.
With the way Linux and Steam Deck are going, Linux might one day catch up to Windows, it's doing pretty well for gaming these days compared to say, 10 years, or even 5 years ago.
I don't understand who u r saying won...
But I agree in that I wouldn't be surprised if Windows was part of the calculus for MS supporting Xbox. The OS was based on Windows at first and Xbox One kinda had two Windows instances if you count the hypervisor.
But, like the console space, I think MS is walking back on OS domination. Apple and Google completely ate their lunch because....surprise surprise they innovated. I'm 100% confident the reason Phil talks (and shows) about the Asus ROG Ally more than Steam Deck is because of Windows. The Steam Deck has to sting for them.
Well, yeah, that's the point. They're too big-a-company for fanboy stuff to be at-all relevant.
Well last I checked a company goal is to make more and more money,
Nintendo could be an example of how they stopped trying to compete with Sony (during the Gamecube day) and decided to focus on a different market and reinvented themselves with the WII.
They reinvented themselves with the Switch by bringing 2 markets together when ppl said that portable consoles were doomed thanks to cellphones and tablets.
Sony's business models also changed when they decided to port games to PC something that was never supposed to happen.
If Xbox exits a market (consoles) to focus on another (games) I guess I don't care anymore. They lost the console market and pretty much the same companies that have been there before making games are still there flying a different flag. If they suck, other companies will eat their lunch by making better games.
How's this guy still around. According to him consoles were dying after ps2, ps3 Era.
Analysts are never wrong, the market just had a swift change for which no one could account.
In his Gametrailers past I’ve found Pachter to be friendly and entertaining. However he’s always blindly predicted Xbox success even up to the start of this generation. Now Pachter has adopted and repeated the new terminology of Microsoft, that it hasn’t lost the console war, it just wants more business. This is illuminating because it suggest he, like Tom Warren at the Verge, is inline with Microsoft’s PR strategy.
He was the only person who completely nailed how the ABK court case would play out. When everyone said the deal was dead, he said no and stood firm and said MS would do exactly what they did.
Did everyone say the deal was dead?
Most analytics said it would go through, but be delayed, which actually was the case.
Thing is, if fanboys understood business, they wouldn't be wasting their time commenting on gaming websites.
And you are here to lecture the rest of us because you understand business and MS is doing great?
Technically Microsoft is doing great, it's just not in gaming, OS and software (e.g. Microsoft Office) is where they're doing great business. I can't think of many other ventures they've had that has worked out for them, despite resorting to some of the same tactics that made them the dominate OS for computers.
Microsoft own things like Microsoft Office and Windows, games are secondary to them. If Xbox shut down the computer company will be ok
They only way that plan works is if people still want to play in their ecosystem.
Eventually, they’re ecosystem needs more games.
Helldivers 2 could swing Xbots to ps6 if it isn’t countered by the end of the gen.
Supposedly some well known Halo modders will be making a mode similar to Helldivers.
https://gamerant.com/halo-i...
Without procedurally generated levels, they’ll face the same problem as Destiny: fighting the same enemies in the exact same arenas does get repetitive eventually.
Helldivers succeeds as a GaaS because of its unusually well implemented use of procedural level creation. That, paired with its fun enemies to kill, makes it a GaaS with a long lifespan.
There is a pretty good chance that those with XB also have PS, but not the other way around.
What kind of Jedi mind tricks do you have to come up with to get through your day?
What is the point of always having to lie or make shit up just to win? It's like cheating to win how can you feel like you accomplished something?
I haven't bought an Xbox since the 360 days, just stuck with PC and PS, sometimes Nintendo.
Pachter is a deranged Sony hating idiot. This so called analysts has been predicting the demise of playstation for years now (kinda like Jaffe). After the ABK deal passed regulators, he was so gleeful that "dumb Sony" was finished. Now that reality has brought big mighty Microsoft on bended knees offering up their games unconditionally, the goal posts shift again. Now it was all part of the plan. Seriously this guy is an embarrassment to his profession, in how is opinions on Playstation comes off as being driven by weird energy towards them as a company.
Calm down
Sont couldn't care about you liking them, nor would Microsoft. L
Good for us gamers. People need to realize MS owns a lot of IP’s so then allowing their games on other platforms is a huge win
Business is changing and now it’s about having content on as many platforms as possible. I for one hope after these 4 games there are other games from MS which will end up on PlayStation and Nintendo along with pc. The argument from Xbox fans is nonsense because they will still get all exclusives day one on GP while others are paying full price or waiting on sales
Ms is changing. The third place company usually doesn't make changes that the others swing to. Don't bring up gamepass cause segatv and psnow were first. Sony did redo psnow into psplus but it's not the same.
Patcher has always been wrong on his predictions for years. A quality track record that guy.
The PlayStation smear articles are back in full force, my lord is the seething real. These are pc and xbox players jealous of the many upcoming exclusives.
If Phil Spencer says it is true, then it must be true. This is my life philosophy.
Is that really you? Is this sarcasm Im sensing? What happened? You saw the light or something?
Pachter has been riding MS's d*#k for several gens in a row and DOGGING Sony every chance he gets lol I don't put stock in anything he says anymore because he only props up Microsoft while crapping on Sony and Nintendo.
Lost me at "Win Business". Win what exactly? All the market share and flood it with one company's mission? Get wrecked. Pachter take a huge flying leap off of your fart cloud that you are jet-intake inhaling.
Also, a Video game analyst with a horrible track record for accuracy is offering expertise on winning. Hilarious.
If you constantly move the goal posts to a favourable position you'll never 'lose'.
However, by doing this you'll only give yourself a false sense of victory as everyone else will see you have only cheated yourself.
Michael Pachter needs to stop comparing movies to video games. I can have 2 broken wrist and the flu and still watch a movie but with 2 broken wrist and feeling sick it would be difficult for me to play a video game.
I didn’t know this guy was still around. I figured he was enjoying his golden years somewhere that wasn’t video games because he always off by a mile. I mean I think the average gamer could really out analyze him with no problem.
Yes we know Microsoft’s end game. But it’s hard seeing that come to fruition at this state of 33 million including the 12-13 million Xbox gold players.
I guess if they can buy more publishers and studios with their trillion dollar company they can out business Sony. Buy up the market forcing people to have gamepass to play games will definitely get their 300 million subscribers.
Microsoft has definitely lost to both Sony and Nintendo in the console Hardware buisness. Now in terms of software they already have surpassed both Sony and Nintendo as the largest games publisher.
I wonder if that line/reasoning is how Phil and his VP team keep their jobs when MSFT demands better.
putting all your exclusives on your rival platforms with higher framerates and better features
I'm not seeing a massive win here, unless its opposite day, also known as E3
Could have fooled me this whole time I thought Sony was winning. PlayStation having huge success must mean Xbox and Microsoft are not losing. Sounds legit.
Haha LMAO. This guy must doppelgänger as stand up comedy in his spare time. What he said was hilarious.
"Long long game ".Seems like Microsoft wants to sell video games on all consoles and platforms out today . Michael Pacther even said. not until 10 to 15 years from now that we will see people just use their phones to play COD . Probably longer than that I believe.
the only ones that think that this is about winning or losing is Spencer.
and Pachter is also talking out of his arse alot.
His point isn't wrong. Microsoft are clearly pivoting away from a model where selling consoles is a priority. I don't think anyone can dispute that in future they are looking to subscription numbers and digital sales as the barometer for success and in most part, this change has occurred because console sales its a battle they can't win - Phil Spencer said so himself just after Redfall launched.
Where Michael is wrong is in the analysis of the situation though. It doesn't matter what barometer you use currently - be it consoles, subs or sales - Microsoft are losing in all of them - and badly.
Time will tell whether that will ever change. MS are well positioned as a publisher but they send mixed messages. On one hand you see a lot of promising single player story games or RPGs but with the other they talk obsessively about monetisation and mobile. Maybe we can have both but forgive us all for not trusting them based on their recent track record.
I always avoid people that try to trick people into believing they are stupid. Patch is a Class A.
So, why not just make cheeseburgers then? They’re losing in the console arena—in the game industry and to Sony. That’s their business and they’ve just been utterly failing at it. Now, they may pull a Sega and abandon making hardware and will no longer be a major publisher, sure ok, but thats a dramatic shift in power and position. Sega is no longer doing Nintendo or PlayStation money. So, I’m not sure how much of “winning at business” they’re doing in the console arena.
They're all in it for the money obviously, many gaming companies have shifted away from consoles such as Atari, SNK and SEGA as examples. Never understood why Microsoft joined the 'console war', which at the time, it was up against the Dreamcast, GameCube and PlayStation 2, not forgetting the PC. A typical 'business brain' would rather make more millions or billions from software than faff on with the added cost of a console. Microsoft messed up with Windows and Internet Explorer, now it's Xbox. Move on and continue with games on PC and PlayStation 5. Crack on with VR games and knock out some games for the Switch and Switch 2 in the future. Lastly, if Nintendo ditched consoles, the likes of Mario Kart and Zelda on PC and PlayStation 5 would obviously rake in more gold coins. The problem is, Nintendo doesn't have the best 'business brain' out there. There's plenty of mobile devices out there for handheld gaming, right down to tablets. How many games would Nintendo sell on Apple and Samsung devices? We all know the answer to that.
Has he ever being proven right? I sincerely cant recall a time where his predictions came true which is all you need to know about this "analyst"
8K UUHD with path tracing at 5000 FPS is great, but what if you only have $300?
So the BG3 guys found an optimization for all other platforms by way of the little engine that could... interesting.
Read the article headline and think “this sound like a Microsoft own site “ click on it read windowscentral and almost spayed my boss with water 🤣
Now about the article I’m not going to read it🤷🏿
"[...]but what if you only have $300?"
Apparently you would have to keep saving money. LOL no seriously. The console they show for this article cost $350. The irony...
I didnt know you could spay using water. That's such a common procedure so maybe they can now?
But why your boss though?
A mid-mid-gen upgrade will never be called a new gen console, no matter how you put it or how many excuses you try to make up.
In this case why bother cause they could have started with XSX, which was out only 1 or 2 years..
We need proper experiences worthy of new gen of consoles. XSS is a laughable attempt..
Y'all can add Lords of the fallen to the list of titles that PS5 outperforms series x.
Yup. Way too much advanced asset management for the Xbox to handle with that one.
The typical "it's holding us back" argument aside, from a sales perspective, the S is selling way more than the X (wasn't it like 75% of total?), so you could make the case that if it wasn't for the S, Xbox would have like 25% of the sales they have now...
Not necessarily. If the S wasn’t there, maybe the X would have sold more units as there was no option?
In the end it’s anybody’s guess with the “if’s” and “but’s” imo.
Crazy that they're only around 5 million Series Xs out there compared to PS5's 40 million.
Xbox has shown they couldn't give a shit about hardware, which is a shame and one of the reasons I feel like if you own a PC there is 0 point in having an Xbox. They want game pass on everyone's phone, PC, TV, fridge, you name it. They are a software company first and foremost.
Eventually the end goal will be game pass on Playstation and they can sack off consoles altogether, whether Sony would be up for that, highly doubt it, but that's their end game in my opinion.
Yah highly doubt playstation would ever allow that. It's like Mcdonalds allowing their big macs to be sold at burger king. Kind of like their intent to buy nintendo, nice thought but never going to happen.
Exactly why i didn't get a series console, it was time for a new pc i just needed a reason to bite the bullet. Im always putting off buying a new pc and just upgrade and upgrade but it was time and GPU came with gamepass so win win i guess. I was going to get a series x but ps5 seemed like a better option when i considered my pc.
I seriously doubt we will see gamepass on PS5. Things have been getting crazy lately so its not a definite but i just cant compute Sony going along with the idea.
I personally think CoD is the start.. they'll buy up IP to back Sony into a corner and give them no choice. Want Call of duty and Elder scrolls on your platform? Along side Halo, gears Forza and all the other shit tonne of IP we own? Brill, we will leave the console business, but you put game pass on Playstation like you've done with EA play.
Makes perfect business sense to me. I wouldn't want that to happen, I'd rather they focus on making games that compete with Sony, but Phil already said they will never outsell Sony, similar to how they'll never outsell Apple when it comes to hardware. They'll go down the windows route and get all of their software on any available platform. Steam Deck, playstation, switch 2, whatever.
Mark my words that shits coming.
From now on then that's what I'll see it as...just an option.
In other words ..all mainline PS5 consoles are much more powerful than the mainline Xbox series console...
So yet again PlayStation holds the most powerful console and gamer share.
Wait, how does that make PS5 more powerful than Series X? Please explain that logic?
I have both systems, but that makes zero sense
@GamerRN
No point trying to reason with fanboy logic. By extension, they're implying that the Switch was the most powerful console last gen.
This is what happens when you have people jumping the gun for some quick doom and gloom headlines. Not to mention getting opinions from devs that were possibly frustrated that they would have to do some extra tinkering for the S. And to an extent, rightly so. But the optimization and trades are there to make a game play on the S. It's a budget console and it should be treated as such.
But I have to laugh at the rest of the crowd who actually told people that the S was holding back this gen and pretended to be shocked that the S wouldn't have the bells and whistles that the X or PS5 would.
It's almost as if they were reaching, hard.
@attilayavuzer
they look a lot better while having a weaker console than the X, that alone should tell you everything
Did you forget the original pr blurbs for the s? What about the original announce video that ms then privated after launch? You know ms over promised on the s and it has caused problems, too many devs have claimed it for it to be a lie.
https://youtu.be/u6ftY7t8bJ...
"This means that the xbox series s delivers the same next gen experiance and features as series x, just at a reduced resolution"
All you need is a handful of games to do that for the statement to be true. It's like sony putting 8k on their box.
@Hole "All you need is a handful of games to do that for the statement to be true". Bullshit....it should ve EVERY game because that's what was promised.
Seriously fox? How many times have we seen the series s version with more than just a resolution cut? Almost every single release has way more than that done to it.
Isn't 8k printed on the xbox chip and it's box? hasn't had a single 8k piece of content though has it? So it's more like that, no 🤔
The S means there will never be a current gen. game built specifically for the SX. Most devs and publishers don't have the talent to optimize like BG3.
BTW, I only game at 30,000 fps...This article is a stupid take. The only thing good about the S is that it kept MSXbox way below 2nd place.
The issue is MS trying to have its cake and eat it too.
For the longest they've tried making system power most important, never really utilized such when having that advantage, now they've cut a corner or parallel with the X and S, offering a cheaper console while still chasing after specs, which now leads to the weaker system being lauded over the X on any excuse.
And still they've yet to actually make anything for either system. Are dependent on new acquisitions along with 3rd parties.
*Are dependent on new acquisitions along with 3rd parties.*
Exactly why wouldn't they depend on this? This is basically Sony's issue coming up for the next year, depending on third parties with hardly anything announced from their first party.
Meanwhile MS has a literal MCU like timeline of games releasing because of their many acquisitions.
*now they've cut a corner or parallel with the X and S, offering a cheaper console while still chasing after specs, which now leads to the weaker system being lauded over the X on any excuse.*
What? That whole statement makes no sense. They offered a console with higher specs and a cheaper console with lower specs at a lower price.
No different than car models, TVs or any other electronics you can find that has a high end and low end. What are you on about?
No different than car models, TVs or any other electronics you can find that has a high end and low end. What are you on about?
but the difference is its not like cheap normal corolla vs a sport corolla which has better specs, its more like why would you drive to a race a toyota corolla if you have a lambo, they are not even close to the same league the S with the X is dumb take and it takes away from X, its not just "we use low quality textures, less LODs, low quality lighting and so on"
"This is basically Sony's issue coming up for the next year, depending on third parties with hardly anything announced from their first party."
How many times does it need to be said: MS doesn't have Sony's track record and reputation for making games. Bad enough there's argument that MS should be credited for games in mid production after buying that studio - which they shouldn't be - but then they aren't blamed when "new" games like the last Gears and Halo come out worse. After their studios, ones created by MS, officially take over making games in those franchises.
Which gives credence to the fact that the Philips CD-i is indeed one of the most underrated machines of all time. Once Larian Studios find a way to optimize Baldur's Gate 3 for the CD-i they're sure to find at least 46% VRAM of optimization that'll directly benefit performance for the PC, Series X, PS5, Atari Jaguar and the 3DO.
And the best thing is that the cost of entry is like way cheaper than the Series S even. So no excuse for the broke gamers out there.
Sure, sure, "But it's only one game out of hundred of games, three years in!!" I hear you say. "But it's only one studio!!" You keep whining about. "But the Series S is a bottleneck!" and on and on and on. Well, shut it! Cuz nobody likes a Negative Nancy and facts don't care about your feelings.
Anyways, Philips CD-i redeemed and now sales should eclipse those of the PS5 and Switch for sure. Next Gen gaming starts NOW!
Gotta love it! Thank you Microsawft, Series S and Larian Studios! Based!
Why are we acting like this is some groundbreaking thing? Basically all developers have made the games work on Series S.
But they are downgraded and cost the developers a shit ton of resources just to create some last gen version of the game.
The game is still without a release date. We see some chart showing they optimized it, but yet we still have no gameplay from it.
If these devs didn't have to waste the time me optimizing for that... they could have spent that time making the other versions even better. Or have moved onto their next game.
Declining Xbox console sales while your competitors are selling some of the best numbers ever is proof that they have not made the right decisions.
You can make Doom run on a potato so this point isn’t very good, sure you can get games to run on almost anything if you gimp it enough. Plus it has taken a lot of time after it’s PC/PS5 release
Look, how many devs have f*cking talked about the bottleneck issues with developing games for S and X. I’m glad after how long since the launch of BG3 that, through grueling work and effort, have figured out how to optimize it for S. Let’s put it this way, it was working fine on X from the beginning. So, no, I’m not in support of the S still.
Well when it makes up 75% of already meager sales one will have to say MS got it right....S
A bunch of questions for the usual crowd of nay-sayers.
How many games run like crap on Series S but run perfect 4K 60 FPS on PS5 and Series X?
How many games like Gotham Knights are running easily 60 FPS on PC when it's supposed to be the weak Series S fault for the 30 FPS?
And last but not least why are companies bothering to create games for Xbox Series S?
Why do you make it your mission in life to white knight for anything and everything MS does? Are you on the payroll or just extremely desperate to validate your purchase?
Why do you complain about my positive stance on agreeing with the article discussed here!?
Several ppl here disagree with the article just for hate of the company so I asked some questions that should be easy to answers if Series S was so bad
Yet nothing?
And for your info I don’t have a digital console only because I still believe in the concept of buying physical.
Microsoft was not right if I wanted to play a game that was nerfed I would get the last gen version. Microsoft should have followed Sony. Same machine same specs all that is missing is the disc drive. Where I live nobody wants the Series S they litter pawn shops, Gamestops, and pop up on the used market all the time. The Series S was poorly planned it's meant for the light duty gamer or for kids to play Fortnite on.
"But what if you only have 50 bucks and a pack of gum, shouldn't there be console for sale that you can afford"....
This is some incredible spin trying to give the credit for Larian's hard work getting the game to even run on the console to Microsoft....
Have they even said it will be able to have split screen or any other missing feature?
BTW here is what success looks like
Gap change over last 12 months: 2,122,276 - XOne
Down year-on-year 1,098,414 units (-20.7%)
You have to submit in mind body and soul to Microsoft. You have to accept blame for not seeing there perfect plan. You must beg for forgiveness.
That's how he comes off.
I get what Microsoft were thinking. But I think it's definitely held back Xbox X development. But for me honestly I'm not a big Xbox fan so Series S would be enough to experience there games. The biggest mistake was only making Series S digital only. Downloading everything is shit for me. I had a series S sold it for mainly that reason. But I don't want to pay out for an X especially with the amount of times I would play it.
Backwards capability: the ability to make current games look like backward compatible titles.
It's a bad value. Even for a casual gamer and/or cash strapped adult, I'd still recommend that they be a bit more patient and save just a few more clams toward a PS5 or Series X.
Don’t buy Series S. Don’t tell your friends to buy Series S. It’s under powered and won’t get you through this generation.
I don't know how I feel about it these days, the Series X is probably the best built console ever made in my opinion, but it's clearly being hamstrung by the Series S at this point. While I don't hate the series S, the idea of a cheaper point of entry to gaming for those on lower income, or parents who wanna get their kids a console I think it's commendable, but it's now having a negative impact on the PS5 and Series X.
Massive shame really, like i said the Series X is an amazingly designed console and when you have a dev who can get the most out of it's better GPU i.e Remedy with Alan Wake 2, it's great. But Xbox has the Series S, and not many if any devs that are actually good at making games at this point.
Give that hardware to naughty dog and insomniac and they would squeeze every fucking ounce of power out of that thing, they have no one able to show off what the hardware can do, and that's a real shame for the Series X and the peope who engineered it, felt the same way about the Xbox one X, top tier hardware, shit software developers.
Lol. Ridiculous, and pretty much verifiable false. Especially when the DEVELOPERS THEMSELVES say otherwise...
Plenty will never admit if Microsoft and Xbox ever do anything right or well. Sadly.
I do think most people are happy with the visual quality of games on the Series S. Casual gamers would rather spend around $300 for a console and get their foot in the door of next gen gaming. Options are good BUT nobody can deny that M$ made it harder on devs and themselves—kind of how Sony did with the cell on the PS3.
It's time to admit this is an article from windowscentral so to say it's less than impartial is a massive understatement.
Honestly, there is WAY too big of a push for 4K games. I will take 1080p 60fps all day over 4K. The vast majority of TV is 1080p! Drop 4K, and go 2K! Nobody will even notice!
The vast majority of TV's ain't 1080p in 2023, at least not in households with PS5 or Series S/X.
I'm a way yer they where right. The one X must of sold terrible. After the whole Teraflops and 4k 4k 4k from the rooftops. They realised Xbox gamers just don't care about 4k at all.
They want something as cheap as possible and they prefer to rent games rather than buy and no that's not me taking a jab I actually owned a s for nearly a year for the exact reason above.
Oh no, and what if people only have $200 or $100? We need to make even weaker consoles. Oh wait, but what if people have only $50? We need one that can do 15fps at 240p. At the age of people spending way more on cellphones, this bullshit argument doesn't fly.
Sarcasm aside, this argument is only valid if the $400 PS5 doesn't sell.
Agree I couldn't afford a PS3 at its launch so you know what I did saved more for it. Seems were in the age of instant gratification I need something and need it now I can't wait 6 months until I can afford it
Facts: 75% of Xbox gamers wouldn't know what current gen games look like. When they see their friends playing on ANY PS5, they would question why games on PS5 looks and runs so much better.
Slower machines always hold back the the industry in some way, imagine every PC gamers have 4090 and the latest CPU, you guys will see some crazy shit that would otherwise be impossible when developers have to optimize a game for millions of slower machine.
I liked your comment..but 32x was more powerful than the original compared to ss which is less powerful?
I know but I guess I was getting at the fact it was more of a parallel system to the Saturn Sega wanted to position it as the entry point to the 32 bit era back in the day.
And also I got a laugh at the thought
If games are taking months longer with MS’s help to release it’s not a good decision.
MS isn’t going to send help for every game.
Releasing months later with less features is proof it’s a mistake.
to me it means a bowel of nachos, cool drink, comfy sweat pants, a smooth wifi connection and Lord willing no work in the morning. I'm a grown man but the E3, especially the advant of new consoles always manages to bring back that innocent and very naive sense of childhood wonder and expectation. amidst all the overhyping, under delivering and delayed promises we get every year, that this one will still be the" best gen" thus far.
last gen didn't disappoint too bad. what ya got 2013?