370°

Carmack: Microsoft and Sony could be hostile to Mantle

Carmack expressed his feeling on the Mantle announcement by AMD, stating that Microsoft and Sony could be hostile to the interesting initiative.

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worldsfactory.net
Festano3884d ago

Finally, we can exploit our beloved duty pc.

dmeador3884d ago

So can anyone explain to me the part about "Perfect parallel rendering - utilize all 8 CPU cores"? Are there really rigs that can make use of this? My understanding was that a 8 core system didn't scale, and you cant just add cores to increase performance for many reasons.

gaffyh3884d ago

More importantly, can anyone explain why DirectX or OpenGL (especially) couldn't simply take ideas from Mantle and improve their APIs?

Eonjay3884d ago

The concept of an open library is always a good idea... especially if it can maximize the AMD chipsets. I can see Microsoft being hostile to this because they want to license DirectX (if Direct X is the standard they will make a lot of money from this). But why should a developer do this if they can get max performance from a free open library that can run across all architectures. I wonder if Mantle works on the Wii U AMD GPU as well.

Kleptic3883d ago (Edited 3883d ago )

^That is exactly the point of mantle...developers CAN'T get 'max' performance out of current high level API's...which is exactly why devs have been pushing for better specific drivers for years...

Mantle is a low level feature set for a very specific group of gpu's...allowing developers to better utilize that architecture...so far, only AMD's GCN gpu architecture is supported...but rumors are the technology is open to other hardware manufacturers, too...so other providers could do the same thing for their own hardware...

All this is doing is giving PC development a piece of 'coding to metal'...removing many bottlenecks created by Windows and its high level API offerings between the OS and the hardware...The high level stuff is fine for getting a game to run on all kinds of different pc configurations...but its NOT good for optimizing and efficiency...

the problems high level api's create is exactly why a console with ~1 Tflops computing power could be compared to a PC with 2.5...the PC is much more 'powerful', but a significant portion of that performance is wasted in OS redundancies and lack of hardware specific optimization...easily the strongest part of consoles as a platform...

this is good for everybody...it just makes porting t0 and from the 'big 3 platforms' cheaper and easier...and it also will hopefully fix this issue where it takes a $400+ PC cpu to not bottleneck a 2 year old high end gpu...

@Dmeador...To this day per core performance in a PC cpu is more critical than the number of cores...for reasons you sort of said...the number of cores basically specifies how many simultaneous strings of code it can crunch through...an 8 core cpu can do 8 per clock cycle...that sounds awesome...but talk to a developer about getting an engine to effectively push 8 lines of code...despite the PS3 and all of its craziness, parallel processing is still extremely expensive and time consuming to develop...

Frostbite 2, and the upcoming 3, have been noted as some of the best scaling rendering engines around though...BF3's multiplayer has always made excellent use of 2 and 4 core cpu's...FB3 is said to utilize up to 8...but mantle, on the other hand, is a low level api for removing cpu overhead...meaning, with the right gpu, the importance of the cpu won't be nearly as high...thats the theory, anyway...we'll see how well it works...

indysurfn3883d ago

Here is a thought, if this was used for PS3 and Xbox360 making them 9 times more powerful. Would that not KILL PS4 and XBONE sales? Also continuing on that line of reason. Would that not Kill PS5 and XBTWO future release?

I think it would help the underpowered pcgamebox but it could threaten future reasons for people to upgrade any time soon. That is what I think Carmack is really hinting at between the lines.

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WarThunder3884d ago (Edited 3884d ago )

AMD FTW!

http://seekingalpha.com/art...

"Considering the boost Mantle could give to a steambox, MS and Sony may wind up being downright hostile to it."

grassyknoll3884d ago (Edited 3884d ago )

Considering Steam OS was partly designed by Nvidia, I'm expecting Steamboxes to be all Nvidia based. I think this fragmentation of the PC market is gonna end up quite self destructive.

jeffgoldwin3884d ago

There's only NVidia and Amd. That's 2 by my count. Besides the whole point of Steam (Linux based) is to be open, so amd will have a hand in too.

That's not very fragmented and much as your console hopes and dreams want to believe.

FrigidDARKNESS3884d ago

True, dont know why folks are automatically putting the Mantle with Steambox. If you go back and look at AMDs financial investors list Valve isn't listed like MS and Sony.

Perjoss3884d ago

as far as I understood it, steam boxes are customizable, so you could probably use either amd or nvidia hardware in them.

Vegrad4153884d ago

I think the main issue is drivers. Valve teamed up with Nvidia because in the past they have done better with their linux drivers. AMD not so much.

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windblowsagain3883d ago

Why would they be hostile to it when it will speed up their consoles as well.

Better code with PC = better fps for Consoles.

Scroticus3883d ago

DirectX. Licensing fees. Enough said.

kingdip903884d ago

With this and steam os it seems the pc gaming industry wants to pull away from microsoft

Seafort3884d ago (Edited 3884d ago )

The PC gaming industry has been trying to do that for years but MS has a monopoly with the OS market and Direct X.

I hope this goes well for AMD with nvidia and valve (steambox) ultimately on board to work together and create a new graphics instruction set to get rid of MS stranglehold on PC gaming once and for all.

Then we just need the publishers and indie devs to get on board as well so I can finally use a proper gaming OS.

Perjoss3884d ago

I've been dreaming of a true dual boot type of gaming OS for years now. Microsoft are not smart at all when it comes to gaming on Windows, they have this massive audience of people that love gaming on the PC but instead they just try and push them onto the xbox.

No problem, if ms do not want to cater to these fans there is always companies that will step in and take full advantage of this. They had it all right there in the palm of their hands, now sit back and watch as it all slips away from them, and it serves them right to be honest.

Death3884d ago

With the Steambox it looks like Valve is trying to take on consoles.

Drekken3884d ago (Edited 3884d ago )

I think it is more of an attack on Microsoft.

"Valve boss Gabe Newell calls Windows 8 a 'catastrophe'"

He hasn't been happy with windows 8 and launched an attack. A free gaming centric operating system for PCs. That is a huge F you to MS.

kingdip903884d ago

Steambox for sure narrows the gap between consoles and pc's but I'm unsre as to whether they Will become direct competition, for a while at least

Death3884d ago

I highly doubt this is all from Windows 8. This takes planning and time. If we are hooking a Steam Box up to out tv's, that is direct competition to consoles. Most PC's are still in our offices/dens/ etc. PC online is still free. If we can play games that look better than the Xbox One or PS4 on out TV's and free online, don't you think some will find that appealing?

XtraTrstrL3884d ago

Awesome news! I guess I won't be rushing to get a PS4 just yet, I'll have to wait and watch how this all unfolds over the next few months first.

FrigidDARKNESS3884d ago (Edited 3884d ago )

Yap, this card replaces my ps4 purchase next year. This will probably be the only G-card you need in the next six years.

Edit
Its an app. Not a G-card but will get this anyway.

NarooN3884d ago

Lol it's not an "app" either. It's a new low-level high-performance-based API from AMD.

Hassassin3883d ago

it's not an app. Its a DX11 replacement (i.e. F M$)

fOrlOnhOpe573884d ago

Competition keeps the industry fresh, focused and forward thinking.

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130°

Microsoft's Absurd Antics Have Me Scared For Dishonored And Arkane Lyon's Future

With Arkane Austin no more and Lyon living for who knows how long, the superb Dishonored is in serious danger; Microsoft cannot be trusted.

Relientk771d 14h ago

I love the Dishonored series so much and really want Dishonored 3. Microsoft better not screw this up.

JEECE1d 11h ago

I mean, I think the fans will probably kill Arkane Lyon by cooking up reasons to hate whatever they do next without playing it. I've never seen a game so artificially disliked as Deathloop.

thesoftware7301d 11h ago

Lol, why don't we just say, we are worried about all studios owned by MS now. They will keep closing studios until they have none left ...🙄

Skuletor1d 8h ago

Just merge them all into a single studio, have it churn out a single Call of Duty every year and call it a day, lol.

Barlos1d 8h ago

Don't be scared, you'll be fine.

Skuletor1d 8h ago

It's exputer, fine is one word I would not associate with them.

Profchaos1d 7h ago

I think it's becoming clear based on matt bootys comments there's no future for any IP that can't sell above 10 million within the launch window. But is also a small game that gives them prestige

/S it's beyond a joke right now

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290°

More Job Losses At Xbox, “There’s More To Come”: Paul Thurrott

Paul Thurrott in a recent episode commented on the on-going Microsoft fiasco hinting at more job losses and that "there's more to come".

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spieltimes.com
Sonic18813d ago (Edited 3d ago )

There won't be no more acquiring game publishers from Microsoft in the future . Xbox has to pay Microsoft back. It might take two decades to do that.

sagapo3d ago (Edited 3d ago )

I don’t understand what you’re saying. Xbox IS microsoft so there’s no “paying back “.
And MS gross profit in 2023 was over 140 billion dollars so forget your 2 decades.

Unless you mean the money MS invested in Xbox (acquisitions included) and the time it will take for xbox as a brand to gain that money back on it’s own, then yeah, that could take a while.

romulus233d ago

The better term to use might be return on investment, xbox is simply a division of Microsoft one that MS can easily do away with if profit margins are not met. So in that regard he's right, if xbox isn't showing the expected return on investment the higher ups are expecting than it's unlikely Microsoft will acquire any other studios any time soon, especially if they are spending billions buying developers just to shut them down in the end.

MrBaskerville2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

Xbox is a division that they discussed shutting down but doubled down on after Gamepass was pitched.

It needs to make money at some point. Big money.

rokos2d ago

According to Statista the net income of Microsoft is about $72.4 billion dollars which is a bit lower than last year profit. That is almost as much as Activision's acquisition but I assume that would be a one off since it costs so much plus I see how their focus has been shifted to AI, thus any major future investments will probably be in that area.

Markusb332d ago

i think you are really missing the point

VariantAEC2d ago

@romulus23
That is not why MS buys studios. They might continue to buy because it's about taking that sweet sweet IP out of the corporate husks of their acquisitions.

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SonyStyled3d ago

“There won't be no more acquiring game publishers from Microsoft in the future”

No bro, there do be is for Microsoft not acquiring for what is now if not what it be is 😂

3d ago Replies(2)
ChasterMies2d ago

Xbox isn’t a separate company from Microsoft. It’s all Microsoft.

Abear212d ago (Edited 2d ago )

Let’s be real, this is the media spinning all the acquisitions and liquidations of said developers and spinning it to make M$ the villain.

This was bound to happen, a bigger slice of pie and cut costs, when the games come they stand to make more and that’s their agenda—it was the writing on the wall when the sales went through and legally all those who approved the sale and mergers knew this would happen.

Snowflakes need to realize business is ugly and you can cry all you want but this is how capitalism works. And it works.

That said, M$ needs to steer the narrative and grab hold of all this, make their plans known, hype the hell out of all those dead IP’s they plan to revive, and be honest about the timeline. This is likely to involve mobile and IP on other consoles, and most people realize that.

The problem is this company is incapable of being transparent and seems to often want to dissuade and confuse is customer base. The lack of E3 has hurt Microsoft and I don’t think they know how to properly or effectively market their brand anymore.

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jwillj2k43d ago

There really needs to be a class action lawsuit here. You buy these companies just to put people out of jobs. And it’s not like something happened to derail their plans this WAS the plan. Microsoft has no business in this space at all.

franwex3d ago (Edited 3d ago )

Microsoft has been doing this for years. They simply want the IPs. Look at Nokia. Look at Skype. This time it simply expanded to games. Gaming is not as important to Microsoft’s executives as it was to the founders too. Bill Gates was willing to sell the og Xbox at a loss. Steve Balmer approved the red ring of death fiasco. This CEO isn’t really a gamer.

-Foxtrot3d ago

Maybe it's time though to put a stop to it and use a big giant like Microsoft as a huge example to the rest of these big companies.

There has to be a line drawn somewhere.

People like the FTC and the like went against Microsoft yet their Actvision deal was still allowed to go through yet look what's happened...it's not even Acitivisions studios aswell, it's Bethesdas.

VariantAEC2d ago

Years?

Try several decades, and in the gaming space 2.3 decades.

Jon615862d ago

You do realize this happens in ALL industries? Or are you just saying this because it is Microsoft? In any case I feel for those that are being let go but the trch industry is suffering right now.

jwillj2k42d ago (Edited 2d ago )

This absolutely does NOT happen all the time. Let me know the last time 1 company with a terrible product track record spent 100 billion onto acquire MULTIPLE successful companies in under a year only to shut them down and stop making their products regardless of how successful they were. Not merge them, completely shut them down.

And you can’t use Microsoft in your example.

Notellin2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

Class action lawsuit? The law is on their side and protects them at all costs. There are no rules to protect the people at the bottom.

jwillj2k42d ago

Not true when it comes to mass layoff do your research.

RNTody3d ago

Ninja Theory, Perfect Dark, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Wolfenstein 3, Dishonored, Prey, Doom, Quake... something tells me that bad things are going to happen to these entities under Microsoft.

MrDead3d ago

ID software, the makers of Doom and Wolfenstein that have been with us since 1991 could be gone and MS will keep the IPs.

I hope some of these studios can buy their freedom from MS otherwise this is going to be even more devastating for the industry and gamers.

Yui_Suzumiya3d ago (Edited 3d ago )

That's exactly what I'm worried about. I've been a fan of id since Wolfenstein 3D and I'm honestly afraid.

lodossrage2d ago

Toys for Bob saw the writing on the wall and bought themselves out.

Wouldn't be the first time a company did that under MS either. Bungie and Twisted Pixel did the same. Considering what just happened, I can see some other devs trying to buy themselves out too.

anast3d ago

Good thing the bosses of all those small studios made their money.

glenn19793d ago

they cant do it right now they will get burned

XiNatsuDragnel3d ago

Phil and his team need to be gone

lodossrage2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

Won't make a difference.

The whole structure needs to be overhauled. Anyone that replaces Phil will be no different than him, Mattrick, or anyone else.

Until the company changes how they go about business, nothing will change

glenn19792d ago

I just don't have any idea what they would do , they have done sooo much damage on their xbox brand, they have a show at July or June I think, but will it even matter even they show amazing games, idkn

lodossrage2d ago

True,

But they may as well get it over with. Whether it happens now or later, the burning is going to hit the same.

Reality is the ONE move that can alleviate a lot of this is the one move they can't make. Remove day 1 from gamepass.

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90°

Microsoft Opening Xbox Mobile Game Store in July

The Xbox brand is expanding, as an Xbox mobile game store is opening this coming July where Microsoft will brings its "first-party portfolio."

Jin_Sakai5d ago (Edited 5d ago )

“Bond adds that they will start on the web”

This will go nowhere.

Nice knowing you Xbox. This is what happens when the house never gets cleaned.

MrDead5d ago

The only this MS is expanding is the amount of feculence it sprays on everyone who just want to enjoy gaming and make games.

The best thing MS can do for the gaming industry is leave and never return.

XiNatsuDragnel5d ago

Good luck with this even it might not succeed.

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