Xbox 720 in beta; AMD HD 8000M to power next-gen consoles?

GC: The guy who has leaked the Durango dev kit pics has said that the Xbox 720 or Xbox 3 is officially in the beta stage and he is awaiting his updated dev kit.

[WetN00dle69]

I dont think that both the Ps4 and Xbox 3 will be running the AMD HD 8000M. That slide is just an AD by AMD saying that they are the leading brand for GPU's be it console or PC. But who knows.

[DeadlyFire]

I suspect higher than this though if they use AMD 8000 Mobile GPU it will have to have minimum of around 2 Tflops.

I suspect the aim is between 2.5-3.5 Tflops for PS4/X720.

AMD 7970M GPU runs at 2.1 Tflops so its sucessor in the 8900M series would fit quite nicely I would suspect.

[ABizzel1]

I didn't disagree with you although I do.

It makes sense to use the 8000M series simply because they're likely to be more energy efficient than the 7000M series. But the 8000M series isn't likely to be that much of an improvement over the 7000M series besides power consumption.

Mobile GPU's would be ideal for the next consoles simply because of size and mobility. The 7970M is more than enough to handle what next gen consoles need if they want to reach 1080p @ 60fps in 3D.

[shutUpAndTakeMyMoney]

The AMD HD8000M is just a refresh.

Also console are like laptops then? Any gpu with the "M" behind it is nothing to right home about.

[wampdog29]

When Sony and MS speak in Tflops, they always use the ENTIRE system, not only the GPU. So, even if you had an inside source that told you Sony wanted 3Tflops out of their next console, it wouldn't simply mean that the GPU was that powerful.

[ProjectVulcan]

You suspect a lot :-/

Mobile processors use less power than desktop parts just because they run at a lower voltage and lower clocks typically. They also end up with a bunch of areas disabled for yield and power reasons. They often have more aggressive power management.

If you want a lower TDP part for a console you can take any desktop GPU and very easily reduce its power consumption. RSX in PS3 is nothing but a shrunken desktop (NV47) G70 core with a crippled memory bus and ROPS count. By the time PS3 arrived, even the G71 7900GTX was old hat and the 8800 series were in town.

I don't really see the connection between the 8000M announcement and the next gen consoles. The announcement is due for the new mobile chips, and we are about 4 months away from a new set of desktop GPU models.

If the consoles are already well into development, they'll probably be using similar designs to stuff that already exists.

[DA_SHREDDER]

You tech geeks care so much about graphics in the next gen consoles why even waste your time on them and just game on your gaming pc's you have now? You want better graphics? I just want bigger and more fun games. I don't care if games don't look close to real life or not, they are just video games, you guy have a hobby, then stop speculating and just play them. BTW, even if the next gen is underwhelming to most of you, you're still gonna buy them, so why all the moaning and groaning? If the graphics don't suit you, then just keep playing on your pc's. Sheesh.

[SirBradders]

One word BAFFLED

[ABizzel1]

@DaShreeder

I don't think any "Tech Geek" is concerned about console graphics. Most of us are here because we enjoy gaming, and we're keeping things in a reasonable perspective for people who don't know what to expect from the next gen consoles.

There are all kinds of crazy rumors flying around, and coming from a tech background / know how, we're just trying to keep everything within reason.

[sikbeta]

Please NO! Mobile crap GPUs will not be enough for a real next-gen leap...

[Persistantthug]

Use and bookmark this....they generally track pretty well.

http://www.gpureview.com/sh...

[Somebody]

@DA_SHREDDER

Everyone speculates about everything This is just what people who have great interest ins similar stuff do. They talk about their interest with other people. Sharing. Interacting.

Even if some of the people here don't have consoles but they do have bits of information that others might not have.

8000M - Who are you going to ask? A hardcore console player who never played on the PC or the tech geek whose hands are smeared with thermal paste?

I'm not a console player but I am interested in the use of a Mobile GPU for a next gen console. Who knows if it's true then MS might inadvertently up open a new opportunity for regular laptops to join the gaming sphere (besides of the expensive gaming laptops). I'm interested with a console development because I'm eager to see how how the PC industry will react and evolve to stay competitive. In a way what happens to the consoles, affects the PC as well.

[ABizzel1]

@skibeta

You don't know what you're talking about. A 7970M sits between an HD 7850 and HD 7870.

To put it simply, it's more than powerful enough to achieve Sony's goal of 1080p @ 60fps in 3D with DX11 on either High or Ultra PC settings depending on the game.

[Zhipp]

The 8000 series hasn't even launched yet, has it? What are the chances a console that's believed to be releasing next year would use such modern hardware?

[Muffins1223]

well,if it came with the console,it would cost more than 700...

[hellvaguy]

When the 360 was released it had a tri-core processor. All pcs then were dual-core. They are able to be ahead of the technology curve at release by way of being subsidized (selling console at a loss first few years).

Unlike nintendo where they need to have a day 1 profit on thier consoles.

[Nicolee]

this is first time that nintendo selling wiiu at loss man.

[Gamer1982]

8000 series has launched already.

[CrimsonSquall]

@hellvaguy, don't be mistaken, MS still followed the sell for profit approach on the launch of the 360

[Bigpappy]

Which ever GPU M$ uses for the next Xbox, with be custom made and exclusive. M$ has learn from the first Xbox, that they have to own all the components in order to control the price and profit.

[Cueil]

The Xbox 360 GPU is based on the same tech as the X1300 (a step down if I'm not mistaken). Microsoft owns the rights to the specific model... it's obviously not a desktop version, but it was based off of a desktop version that got released around the same time as the 360. Oct of 2005 if I'm not mistaken...

[Crazyglues]

either way this is bad news for Nvidia if it's true because it would seem they wont' be in either console...

that wouldn't be a good move for Nvidia since the lost of console sales would mean a huge lost of money for the company in the future..

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[iggsta3o5]

@DA_SHREDDER Its not all about graphics "we tech geeks" have had to put up with your shit console ports for years, at this point we could care less about graphics. What we want to make sure is that consoles have the power to guarantee a push in current gaming innovation ie. better AI, larger world, greater population density, and complex Physics, all these things take power. So shut your mouth sit back, and only open your mouth when your given permission to speak. Were tired of your kind holding back the evolution of gaming.

[MasterCornholio]

Exactly my thoughts. While I personally believe that the most important aspect of a game is gameplay, powerful hardware allows developers to enhance gameplay by creating games with great Ai, physics, huge open worlds etc. Seriously could we play games like Read Dead Redemption, Dishonored, Dead Space, Mass Effect, Call of Duty, Batman Arkham City, God of War 3 etc on an NES? We couldn't because the Super Nintendo would be too weak to handle these sorts of fantastic games. A very good example of this is the amount of multi platform games that skipped the Wii due to how weak the hardware is.

In conclusion, having fantastic gameplay is vital to a good game however graphics can dramatically enhance said gameplay in many different ways.

Anyone who fails to see how powerful hardware can enhance gameplay isn't a gamer in my opinion instead to me they are the ludites who are holding this industry back and thus don't deserve to play fantastic games.

Motorola RAZR i

[DarthJay]

@wetnoodle More people need to be like you and start calling it the Xbox 3... or anything but the Xbox 720. The name Xbox 720 makes me cringe. The absolute dumbest thing I've ever heard and it makes no sense whatsoever. So thank you for not being that guy.

[FanboyPunisher]

LMAO moblie GPU in a console?

TRASH!

Steam HTCP will be the end of shoddy consoles I'm telling you.

[Npugz7]

I hope they use them in the Next Gen Consoles.

[wishingW3L]

Yeah. MS will put a $600 GPU on their next console. And what about everything else? RAM, CPU, motherboard, case, power-supply....

Man these writers are so clueless. lol

[Smurf1]

Mobile GPU. Read the M part.

[Hingle_Mcringleberry]

Do you believe when they order 1 million GPU's they get charged the same price you do when you buy a single one? Man, these readers are so clueless. Lol.

[IRetrouk]

Dont forget they will order them in tens of millions and will most likely get a massive discount

[mwjw696]

Discount yes. But most likely only a 30% discount tops. AMD still has to make a nice profit, or why even sell them at all.

[Sp1d3ynut]

mwjw696, you obviously have no clue how big business works. You think Wal-mart only gets a "30% discount" from vendors, on the items you buy? They pay mere pennies on the dollar for many items, based on sheer volume. Without Wal-mart, Target, Amazon, etc. , most of the items we purchase would be ridiculously expensive, because the mfr had no guaranteed way of knowing how many units they would sell to recoup mfg costs, tooling, etc. The guaranteed purchase contracts give them a pricepoint to work off of, and reason to go ahead with mass production...which reduces cost AND retail pricing.

[BitbyDeath]

It's far greater than 30%.
Remember Sony put a $1000+ blu-ray player into the PS3 which cost $600 and that's obviously excluding the cost of the GPU, CPU, RAM etc

Blu-ray players are far cheaper now so that cost of putting it into the next machine will be severely reduced.

Sony/MS can easily put in all the latest parts and still market it for around $400.

[rainslacker]

Don't forget that those $600 video cards didn't pay $600 for the graphics chip alone either. It also includes R&D for designing the card, packaging, marketing, Memory and IC costs, company overhead, along with all the other stuff that goes into making the card itself. I don't know what the breakdown is, but it's likely less than $200 per GPU chip. However no you aren't likely to see such an expensive part in the system unless they received a massive discount. It is possible given the amount ordered that AMD would give one since it means they would make a profit quicker. They still aren't likely to sell it for less than what it costs them to make, however.

[nukeitall]

Well, from the first Xbox 360, MS made sure to own the design for the chip, which means they are allowed to manufacture them at any plant of their choosing.

Also, a huge cost up front (or loss) isn't unknown, but it sure ain't $600. The chip itself doesn't cost $600 not even close.

[aquamala]

it's a mobile GPU, which is far less powerful than Desktop GPUs because it needs to use less power and generate less heat to be usable on laptops.

[tee_bag242]

Well a 7970m's desktop equivalent is the somewhere between the 7850 and the pricier 7870.
That's not too shabby at all!

[konnerbllb]

The xbox360 gpu consumer equivalent cost around 600 at launch. Look it up

Of course MS never pays retail.

[Cueil]

You're not to far off... but the Xbox 360 uses some slightly lower variant that the X1300 uses... if I'm not mistaken... it's really hard to remember all the info from 7 years ago... has it really been 7 years?

[Qrphe]

Please

The base GPU for the Xenos was worth around $500 in 2004/5 while the Pentium III GPU in the original Xbox was worth around $600 in 2000 (I'm not even adjusting for inflation).

[jmac53]

I am sure they will use something that generates less heat after the red ring debacle.

[greenpowerz]

They already have. STFU sheesh

BTW please don't reply with a collection of barely sound unfounded info from wikki quoting blog quality data methods and polling from sources that are or were trying to blow up the problem for the most hits(IRetrouk).

When PS2 had it's issue no one expressed worry about later PS2's and PS3. LOL

[silkrevolver]

He's simply stating for future use.

We all know the 360's current chipset is sound and not Red-Ring inducing.

Simmer down.

[koston3647]

@greenpowerz if that comment wasn't overly and unnecessarily defensive idk what is...he doesn't have to "STFU"

[jmac53]

Well my "data" was that I had 5 red ringed consoles before I got a slim, which has been working great. I was merely stating that Microsoft is definetly going to put more heat-resistant parts in the next machine. Please untwist your panties.

[Qrphe]

But the PS2 DIDN'T have this exact type of issue.

[andibandit]

@jmac53

thats the dumbest thing i've heard in 2012.
How about it's cheaper for the consumer and better for the environment and gives a greener image of the 720?.

im sure your reason is somewhere at number 500 on the priority list, along with "PS4 will have more memory so they can have run cross Game Chat"

[JsonHenry]

Console gamers will more than likely be happy with one of these parts in their machine. It is a respectable part in terms of power. (for a console)

[mwjw696]

First off it will not be a (M)obile GPU. Size is not the major issue in a console like it is in a cell phone or laptop. Heat and power are. Secondly these are just comming out in a couple of months. They need something more cost efective like a mid to high range GPU. Yes there will always be a discount when the chips are sold in the millions, but not something crazy like half off. More than likely it will be 10%-20% discount. Every other console out so far has had a custom chip built specifially for the console. They are still based off a current GPU, but customized to the needs of the console.

[dirthurts]

There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to start.
Yes, Heat and Power are the issues, that's why they would go with a mobile chip. Less heat and power consumption. Desktop processors can suck huge amounts of power and put off tons of heat.
MS wouldn't use it if AMD didn't cut them a huge deal. They'll be losing money on the consoles most likely anyway.

[aquamala]

Mobile GPU means it's made for a laptop, so makes sense on a console.

[AKS]

10% discount for buying millions in bulk? If that was the deal they took, they should fire all of their top executives.

[rainslacker]

They could give a bigger discount than that. You have to remember that for AMD it means that these chips will be sold for much longer than their initially projected shelf life, and in much greater quantities, thus gaining them more profit in the long run. Getting in now, while a slight hit to the bottom line, basically means that whatever chip they designed now has a 7-10 year production life. The longer it gets used the more money they make off it as production costs go down with integrated circuits every year.

[NoFanboyRequired]

If it were to have an 8000M series AMD GPU, i'd be glad to throw $600 dollars at that beast. But i really don't think that'll happen, but who knows, right? Hell, I'd be happy with a custom 7000 series GPU.

Give me 4-8GB of RAM, a mid to high end GPU and a nice quad core CPU and this guy will be very happy. :)

[mwjw696]

The problem is you will be one of the very few that do. Look at the launch of the PS3 and tell me you want that again? I nice GPU is important, 4-8GB of ram is great, a custom built quad or greater CPU is a must, but it will not sell to anyone but the most hardcore if its over $500 at launch.

[IRetrouk]

Whats with everyone saying the ps3 had a bad launch? It was expensive yes but it sold just as well as the 360 from launch, it was only behind because it came out later, in fact i think it sold at a faster rate than the 360 although i cant be 100% on that and cant be bothered to go look, but point being it only had a bad launch according to fanboys and the bs doom and gloom journalists, it was worth the money then and if sony or micro want to sell a console for the same kinda price i will buy, as long as its worth it

[tee_bag242]

The current 7970m is still more powerful than the upcoming 8000. There is going to be a 8xxx released in Q2 next year that should beat it. But we'll be lucky to see that make its way into the consoles.

[Arai]

I don't think we can except something near the 7970M, though the damn thing is a beast.
Got one myself in my Alienware M17xR4, it's a expensive GPU.

This is the average price one goes for ebay or not.
I really do hope we get a strong GPU and 8GB RAM that would be sweet.
Even on this laptop I got 8GB and it's more than enough, and it's a PC!
Hopefully we'll have anti aliasing this time around, as much as I love my consoles I can't stand the jaggies.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CLE...

[tee_bag242]

It would be a great choice of card for a console. I know what you mean, they are savage. I've got two in a m18x r2.
1 card can do bf3 at 60fps in 1080p as you know! Imagine having that with all the optimizations that console games get.

[hellvaguy]

Alienware is about $500-1000 over priced. Next time for better quality and price go with a sager (xoticpc.com) or asus.

[tee_bag242]

I need the HDMI in for work. Sager are priced well but I prefer the quality of Alienware for a few good reasons.

[WeskerChildReborned]

Hmm i wonder if it is true or not, if so, who is the one leaking them?

[iNFAMOUZ1]

wow some people are idiots on here, or never took economics back in high school. They get mass discounts on everything durrrr, just sit back and wait, you'll be surprised.

[akaakaaka]

"Shhh don't wake up the sheps
they are happy the way they are."

Don't worry people yes sony and m$ will get 10% of their parts and they will spend $10000 but sale it at $500 to keep you happy lol they will take the "lost" because they care about you.. LOL

[Pillsbury1]

With all these leaks nowadays we will know next gens full specs before they are announced lol

[ardivt]

Just like with Wii U...

[badvlad]

usually

[SugarSoSweet]

Why would they use a mobile gpu when they used desktop gpu's to power this generation of consoles that makes no sense

[Irishguy95]

Because they had horrible problems with overheating this gen?

[gabeybabey]

Mabye... Sony/M$ cant spend too much on components or else manufacturing costs are too high *COUGH PS3 LAUNCH*
And we all know how that turned out for Sony.

I believe the chip they will use will be equivelent to the AMD 5000-Low 6000 Series.

[silkrevolver]

I'm much more interested in newer interface rather than blatant graphical prowess.

Yes, all of that will allow for bigger, better, more believable worlds... but I want to be excited by something NEW in at least one of the new consoles.

Nintendo has part of the equation right with the gamepad... they just dropped the ball a little bit with the horsepower.

[PurpHerbison]

I visit N4G Daily and I just can't seem to get any expertise rubbed off on me from all these experts in the comment sections. What gives?

[JeffGUNZ]

haha comment of the year.

[lilbroRx]

I dare not touch this article. After reading the comments, pretty much anyone who provides a sound argument for this not being true gets hammed into the ground.

[blackbirdi]

didn't the rumors says before that will be two xbox's one with AMD chipest for casual gaming and one for hardcore gamer based or maybe it's for the valve console :p who knows

[SprigganN4G]

Back in Nov 2005, the X1800XL (Xbox 360 based GPU) cost more than the console itself, if the PS3 had been launched in 2005 (her hardware is from that year), the 7800GTX whom the PS3 GPU is based from cost U$D500.

Back there in Nov 2005, the OEM VGA card X1800XL (Xbox 360 GPU) was more expensive than the console itself, if the PS3 had been launched in 2005 (her hardware is from that year), the 7800GTX (PS3 GPU) had costed $500.

people, MS and Sony don't pay THAT for the GPU... there are licitations where the BIG companies as AMD, Nvidia, IBM, Intel etc, puts down their pants for a contract for A LOT of years of production... i venture to say, as an example, if they decide to put a HD7970 ($400 retail now), it will hardly cost to them, per unit, $100.

I REALLY hope that they will stick with the PS3/Xbox 360 hardware politics, monsters at the time.

IBM 8 core, simple to program or an Intel X86 (Like a 3570 or a Vishera 8320/8350) with a HD7950/HD7970 and 8GB of GDDR5 RAM.

If they stick to the Nintendo WiiU's anti future-proof / evolution of gaming politic, i'll pass

Greetings from Argentina :D

[TemplarDante]

Rumor that Orbis and and Oban have 8000M GPUs.. granted, they do mirror their standard pc counterparts but are very underclocked. My bet, to allow it to fit in a console and overclocking it, allowing them to save space and use less watts in the process.

[TemplarDante]

Hey, well the guys on Neogaf/Semiaccurate both found a patent for GPU task switching from Sony.
This confirms PS Orbis will be an APU+GPU solution,
Expect a 2TF GPU alone, I would guess the PS Orbis would be 2.5 maybe even 3TF.
So, lets see.. rumors a year ago said PS Orbis to have "two gpus"
PC guys said SLI setup in a console? lulz,
Then, earlier in the year, PS dev kit has AMD A8+GPU. rumored to be flagship HD 7970GPU.
Ready at Dawn dev says on neogaf its high end as of now, next year (with AMD8 series imminent release it may not be)
Last month, dev kit AMD A10/APU setup no GPU. 16GB ram.

Devs were told that January 2013 they can expect the final dev kit..

So, does that mean...
PS4/Orbis
A10 OR Greater APU+ 2TF GPU+
8GB RAM DDR 3 / 4

This means the Epic games demo Samaritan could theoretically run on the Orbis :)

[Gimmemorebubblez]

Well I don't really care APU's, GPu's or CPU's the next generation of consoles run on based on my experiance with one of my consoles I owned this gen, I already know what I will get first next gen. I'm sure many of you can guess which one I will be geting.

[TheKayle]

rumor saying that x720 will have a custom gpu while ps4 will have a official design one......but this r jsut rumors

but i really doubt they will have the same gpu (xbox is full directx) sony is writing a library that can copy directx 11

both system will have same power on gpu the difference will be in the cpu

and i think ms is going to have the most powerfull but is just IHMO....

if u go on beyond3d forum u will see what some developers had tweet....

[TemplarDante]

Remember the "secret meetings" happening between Sony-Microsoft?
It may have been regarding patents. This patent for GPU task switching between discrete GPU and APU GPU is being used in AMD products that msft will use..
Likewise, my guess is the custom AMD/IBM/msft Power7 8 core tech would also be used by Sony. To me it seems a juggling act of patents between Sony and Microsoft (hence the domain registration of Sony-Microsoft and Microsoft-Sony .com's) to stop Apple, Samsung, Valve and anyone else that enters next gen. The content switching GPU tech was 1st patented by Sony in July 2009, it was updated 20 December 2012.
Look at the embargo date on that AMD pic in the article.. co-incidence that the 8000 series is also using the Sony patent of content switching between high GPU and low GPU?

The conspiracy theorist in me wants to speculate lol.

My bet, next gen Orbis and Xbox 3 will use either an IBM Power 7 8core setup or Steamroller Jaguar Cores (two packs) 8 cores, an unannounced 8Series mobile GPU overclocked to match its pc counterpart, 4GB of ram and 2-4gb ram for video.
Given AMDs poor financial standings, they would bend over backwards to agree to 10yr deals with Sony and Microsoft.
Granted they cut deals for buying bulk, I'd say they could both do $400-$450 at launch.

[bobshi]

Non-story.

These are two different slides.

They are basing this on the 1st slide saying AMD is powering consoles, and then the other slide reveals the 8000M.

Well, take a look at the other stuff on the 1st slide. Cloud gaming.

So what, you think cloud servers are running mobile GPUs too?

Please.