590°

Microsoft reacts to Sony buying Gaikai: "Cloud is a big area of investment for Xbox"

Sony made a huge splash in the games business today, picking up cloud gaming firm Gaikai for a cool $380 million. Rival Microsoft isn't sitting idly by, however. When GamesIndustry International asked for reaction to the Sony news, a spokesperson noted that the cloud will continue to be hugely important for Microsoft.

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gamesindustry.biz
donniebaseball4315d ago

I think the Gaikai news is huge for Sony. MS should just go buy OnLive imo.

cstyle4315d ago

They don't need to. They have the resources to have their own cloud gaming. besides sony really needed to do what they did in order to get back where they were in the TV market.

Jihaad_cpt4315d ago

have you heard of Microsoft they by everything. Only once money cannot work will they commit other resources. Yahoo for example.

ChunkyLover534315d ago (Edited 4315d ago )

I just said the same thing, everyone will look to Microsoft to buy OnLive, but I don't see that happening. Microsoft is well known for wanting to run their own services. OnLive might be an option, but I think their plan has always been to build Cloud from the ground up.

If you look at the "leaked documents", it clearly states Microsoft is looking to have Cloud in a few years. I'd think that means they have had a plan on the books for a while now.

I tend to think Sony bought an established service in order to offer some semblance of backwards compatibility with the PS4, if its true they dropped The Cell, they will need a service to offer people the ability to play those older games.

nukeitall4315d ago

I think Sony is in panic mode and decided to buy up Gaikai. There is no reason why MS would want OnLive (or Gaikai) for that matter. The technology isn't super secret or particularly difficult to do. In fact, nVidia is the provider for Gaikai with GeForce Grid which is technology anyone can buy.

So if the technology isn't what Sony want, the customer base is unlikely as there likely isn't many and branding is kind of useless since Playstation is a far stronger brand. The only thing I can come up with is patent, but I can't imagine there being many. This isn't some super high technology stuff, so the final thing is infrastructure and the only reason you want that is because you yourself can't scale up that fast.

Which makes sense, since Sony isn't exactly a player when it comes to cloud technology. Still $380 million is steep, very steep.

@Jihaad_cpt:

MS aren't exactly going for resources when they buy. They usually go for instant marketshare something that is extremely hard to get even if your product/service is better.

@ChunkyLover53:

I hardly think paying $380 million for BC is worth it for a service that gives you sub-par experience combined with a need for *very* high speed internet. By that time, PS3 will be dirt cheap anyhow and the Cell chip will be dollars in cost, not tens.

Best case scenario, they are going to give access to PS4 for PS3 users as a service. Assuming they have fast enough service.

SilentNegotiator4315d ago

They had resources to make their own social networking, too....

Neko_Mega4315d ago

Really? So how is Sony in panic mode? They got more new titles coming out then 360 has. So far all we know about the 360 is it is getting Smartglass and some new titles.

Where Sony is sitting on a huge list, plus who says this is for PS3? For all we know. Sony could be buying this for PS4 and besides I think Microsoft has been falling behind with the lack of titles.

DeadlyFire4315d ago

Microsoft is more likely to partner or buy up OTOY. They have tested their service mostly on Microsoft hardware, phones, and X360 game controllers since 2008.

OnLive is great and all, but I don't believe Microsoft is 100% towards them.

nukeitall4315d ago (Edited 4315d ago )

@Neko_Mega:

What part of my comment was unclear?

Why would a company buy another company when the benefit is minimal? It seems Sony is buyin up Gaikai for the infrastructure, not the technology since it is widely available.

The only reason you buy something like that which is available to anyone, and pay premium is because you are unable to build and scale it up yourself and you want it FAST!

This is a business strategy, not I got so many games releases so I'm immune to the *potential* shift in the industry.

@Patriots_Pride:

OnLive uses hardware compression, but clearly there isn't a problem for Gakai to implement similar technology. In fact, Gaikai uses nvidia Grid, which anyone can purchase. Clearly the patent isn't a necessity.

Certain patent are so obvious you can't really work around it, unfortunately this technology isn't that. Many forms of this already exist prior so I don't believe it's worth half a billion dollars.

sjaakiejj4315d ago (Edited 4315d ago )

"The technology isn't ... particularly difficult to do"

Lol, you have no idea how clueless you sound. The amount of technology that has to go in to a cloud gaming platform such as OnLive and Gaikai is extremely complex. It requires years of testing and refining to get it right, and that's even disregarding all the patents that Gaikai and OnLive have in the technology (there's far more to it than just video compression). You can't just "build one of your own". It requires a large investment, a lot of risk and extremely competent programmers.

Implementing it isn't easy by any stretch of imagination. Think about the different factors involved - users are guaranteed to have an unreliable connection, but you can't let that affect gameplay. How about latency? Distance to servers? Dynamic Compression? How about variations in bandwidth and network load? All of these problems have to be invisible to the users, and that's where the difficulty comes from.

nukeitall4315d ago (Edited 4315d ago )

@sjaakiejj:

"Think about the different factors involved - users are guaranteed to have an unreliable connection, but you can't let that affect gameplay. How about latency? Distance to servers? Dynamic Compression? How about variations in bandwidth and network load?"

You mean how this is something people have implemented all along with online video services and multiplayer games?

This isn't some vodoo technology and is something these companies have been refining for years. Where do you think CDN comes from? Even nvidia has a product called GRID that is used by Gaikai for just this purpose. It's practically off the shelf!

This is well known problems, and if you can't do it with the size of Sony for far less than $380 million, you got major problems. The answer is, they are panicking and buying up infrastructure, because they can't scale up fast enoug.

I hate to say I told you so:

http://n4g.com/news/1029231...

sikbeta4315d ago

Competition is always good, if this means MS going the same route, bring it on!

sjaakiejj4314d ago (Edited 4314d ago )

Nukeitall

Lol at the troll article you posted. Not that it proves anything, so I'm not sure _why_ you posted it...

OnLive took 7 years to develop, from conceptualisation to functional system. Gaikai started development later, but development still took 3 years, with the concept already in place.

What does this mean? 3 Years of development for a platform is a long time, and there's two reasons as to why that might be:
1) The system is extremely big
2) The system is very complex.

Online Video Streaming and Multiplayer games are a world apart from the technology used in Cloud Gaming. Latency and bad connections is not an issue for video streaming, as it doesn't matter if the user has to wait for a few seconds. Latency and bad connections have a lower impact on online games as well, as predictive algorithms can be used to approximate where a player is at any given time. The problem is, you can't do either of those things in Cloud Gaming. Input has to be precise, there is no room for error - predictive algorithms are thus out of the question. Latency is a major issue due to input, so ignoring that is also not possible.

These systems, as simple as they may seem to the end-user, abstract away immense amounts of technical innovations and accomplishments.They are, along with games, some of the most complex software systems in the world.

On top of that, with that $380 million which Sony paid in shares (e.g. they did not pay in cash), Sony immediately acquires a large list of intangible assets, such as patents, brand name and partnerships, as well as tangible assets such as Server Farms, User Base and Infrastructure.

GRID is a technology that supports the video compression ratio, but it still requires an extensive framework to make use of it. It's not some kind of magic device that does everything for you. It's comparable to a GPU - Just because you have a GTX680 does not mean that Command & Conquer 95 will suddenly have mind blowing visuals.

nukeitall4314d ago

@sjaakiejj:

First of all, you don't have to explain technology to me. I'm well aware of all of this as I work with it on a daily basis.

Now to the main point, since it took OnLive 7-years and then Gaikai 3-years, what do you think it will take now?

Fact of the matter is, technology moves forward and with each iteration it is far simpler. When Gaikai started, there was no nVidia Grid, so yes it makes it that much easier. Data is data, doesn't matter if it is an image, video or a text file.

"These systems, as simple as they may seem to the end-user, abstract away immense amounts of technical innovations and accomplishments.They are, along with games, some of the most complex software systems in the world."

Games? Potentially. Networks? Not so much, because most of the problems are almost exactly the same. Poor bandwith, connection quality and poor latency. Video encoding is a well known problem!

"Sony immediately acquires a large list of intangible assets, such as patents, brand name and partnerships, as well as tangible assets such as Server Farms, User Base and Infrastructure"

This is exactly my point. The Gaikai brand wasn't strong to begin with and the Playstation brand is far more valuable. Gaikai doesn't have a viable business. Heck, OnLive doesn't have a viable business yet whom is bigger and one of the earliest players.

All Sony got was some patents (probably very few valuable ones as the technology isn't groundbreaking) and server farms i.e. infrastructure. User base is probably negligable. That is why I think it was a bad deal for Sony.

"It's not some kind of magic device that does everything for you. It's comparable to a GPU - Just because you have a GTX680 does not mean that Command & Conquer 95 will suddenly have mind blowing visuals."

What? I think you are confused about the technology. Gaikai used to use software video encoding for their cloud games, but now uses nvidia Grid. What Grid does is provide two GPUs, one for partially hardware accelerated video encoding and another one for regular graphics with fast frame buffer access. This technology is available now for anyone to buy from nVidia and has nothing to do with "because you have a GTX680 does not mean that Command & Conquer 95 will suddenly have mind blowing visuals." The frame work is partially provided by nvidia, but nothing a team of engineers can't do for less than a million dollars in far less than 12-months.

The hard part isn't the technology, it is the infrastructure i.e. the server farms, but even that is far easier to obtain today than ever.

sjaakiejj4314d ago

" I'm well aware of all of this as I work with it on a daily basis. "

And I'm President Obama

"Now to the main point, since it took OnLive 7-years and then Gaikai 3-years, what do you think it will take now? "
First game took longer to develop than those that followed as well, but those that followed all had a roughly similar development cycle.

I'm not even going to bother to respond to the rest, because of this:
"Games? Potentially. Networks? Not so much, because most of the problems are almost exactly the same. Poor bandwith, connection quality and poor latency. Video encoding is a well known problem! "

You make a fundamental mistake in your assumption here - Just because the problem is always the same does _not_ make it easy, _especially_ for distributed computing. How do you ensure the user actually receives the package? Do you use TCP or UDP? Why is TCP a bad choice for Cloud Gaming? Why is UDP a bad choice for Cloud Gaming? Those are the most basic questions that you can possibly ask, and yet the answer to the question of which protocol to use is already very difficult.

As for GRID, GRID is a technology that supports hardware encoding of video. Whilst it may speed up the process of encoding, it does not solve any of the networking problems, nor does it mean that having GRID technology somehow makes implementation of cloud gaming easy. If you actually had _any_ experience in this area whatsoever, you would know that.

Oh and 10 million users is "negligible"? I rest my case.

+ Show (10) more repliesLast reply 4314d ago
Patriots_Pride4315d ago

@cstyle - you are correct by saying that MS can build their own cloud gaming service but OnLive holds a large portfolio of cloud gaming patents which includes U.S. patent #7,849,491 which key factor to the patent is low-latency video compression. This technology compresses video content and reduces lag seen onscreen, allowing users to play motion-based games running on servers thousands of miles away without seeing lag.

Some times its cheaper and easier to just buy a company for its patents than to pay royalties or try to find a work around the patent.

LackTrue4K4315d ago

"was that a joke?!" lol.......

Mounce4315d ago

Yea, and any Gaikai vs OnLive comparison shows truly what service is superior, Gaikai runs better quality and textures AND runs it smoother.

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

TekoIie4314d ago (Edited 4314d ago )

Lol that was just like the console war with Multiplat graphics XD.

There were areas where OnLive seemed to have an edge and then you thought Gaikai had the upper hand in area's. There was only one point though where i felt i could see little more detail on Gaikai.

But overall... Literally no difference when you play it unless you try to find differences...

Mounce4313d ago

There's definitely a difference, I have Amnesia on OnLive and it has a sort-of Mouse-lag, a 1-2 second delay that irritates the fuck out of me, it can get blocky-textured as hell for me too, my internet definitely as fine as in comparison, when my internet was bogged down one day even I tried playing The Witcher 2 on Gaikai and holy shit the graphics were better than what my i7 laptop could pull off! -_- AND it ran smoother than any experience I had with OnLive. (Laptop is Asus G73JH-A1 btw)

Imalwaysright4315d ago (Edited 4315d ago )

"I think Sony is in panic mode" So expanding their business and doing it 1st than their competition is an act of desperation? Sony clearly made market research and they believe that acquiring Gaikai will be advantegeous to them. They wouldnt just throw their money away if they didnt believe that it wasnt a viable business option.

And yes MS can make their own cloud gaming service and to be honest i dont know what it takes to start one up from scratch but i do know that Sony would have one advantage: market share and in business market share is everything!

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 4313d ago
NYC_Gamer4315d ago

I believe all 3 console brands will be involved in cloud gaming one way or another

Arnon4315d ago (Edited 4315d ago )

I'm glad to see that the big names are considering all of this. Cloud gaming has a lot of potential.

DeadlyFire4315d ago

I do as well.

Gaikai - Sony
OTOY - Microsoft. Been tested on X360 controllers, Windows phones, and Microsoft branded devices since 2008 I believe.
OnLive - Nintendo

That's what I believe anyway.

Knushwood Butt4315d ago

Nintendo will get involved last when the technology is a lot cheaper, and call it Mario's Cloud.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 4315d ago
shutUpAndTakeMyMoney4315d ago (Edited 4315d ago )

Funny all the technology comes from pc and is now going back to the source. pc.

When all the disks go away everyone will just be a cloud pc gamer. Crazy..

NYC_Gamer4315d ago

consoles are mini PC's that are just aimed towards gaming

Azmatik4315d ago

LOL the game is held on a server not played off a PC at all

Bladesfist4315d ago (Edited 4315d ago )

LOL A server is a PC it has storage, memory, a processor and an OS. Even your router is running an OS and has the above.

Educate yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Rhythmattic4315d ago

PC... "Personal Computer"

A Server is not.

sjaakiejj4315d ago

Blades

A server is a computer, but not a PC. Whilst the terms Computer and PC have been used by the mainstream interchangeably, they do not mean the same thing.

Bladesfist4315d ago (Edited 4315d ago )

My laptop is a web server, It runs linux. It is a PC. How can you say it is no longer a PC because it runs a server (A server is a piece of software, not hardware...). I still use it for personal use.

sjaakiejj4314d ago (Edited 4314d ago )

Blades:

From your own link

"In most common use, server is a physical computer (a computer hardware system) dedicated to running one or more such services"

A server is only a piece of software in the case of client-server architectures, often used locally.

If you use to broad definition of a server, you're still incorrect - A server is a computerised process that shares a resource with a client process.

It is most definitely not a PC, but may in many cases be a computer. (Just because your truck is a vehicle does not mean that all vehicles are trucks. Likewise, just because your PC serves as a Server does not mean that all Servers are PCs. ).

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 4314d ago
cstyle4315d ago

"When all the disks go away everyone will just be a cloud pc gamer. Crazy.."

Not really...Cloud gaming will be streamed on TV too which was a smart move by sony to buy this Gaikai.

shutUpAndTakeMyMoney4315d ago (Edited 4315d ago )

Ok so stream games on a tv from a pc? still a pc gamer. A pc can be plugged into a tv now because it's the most flexible platform.

sarshelyam4315d ago

I completely understand what you're saying. The output doesn't matter when the source is predefined. You may be playing it on a mobile device, or a home console connected to a TV, but the reality is it's still PC gaming!

DragonKnight4315d ago

Do you all want a star or something? You're acting like the PC platform is your child that just made the honor role. *sigh* PC fanboys.

Laxman4315d ago

PC fanboys... They're the worst of the the worst.

LightofDarkness4315d ago (Edited 4315d ago )

Hey look everyone, it's dragonknight trying to antagonize PC gamers again! Go ahead, now it's your turn to cry about how beset upon you are by PC gamers and it's not your fault.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 4314d ago
Mr_cheese4315d ago

@shutUpAndTakeMyMoney there will be no pc our end when using the TV, that is the point Cstyle is trying to make.

sarshelyam4315d ago

And the point @shutUpAndTakeMyMoney has clearly outlined is that it doesn't matter what your output is, the source is PC-based. So while you may have the form factor of a home console and a television, you're streaming, via Cloud, PC-sourced gaming!

Azmatik4315d ago (Edited 4315d ago )

lol are u guys serious, ur tellin me when i stream a game from cloud my ps3 isnt doing any GFX or processing lol buncha bafoons. trying to make it sound like a PC could run AAA sony titles LOL the game is held on a server not played off a PC at all

KwietStorm_BLM4315d ago

LOL spin cycle on repeat with you guys

Bladesfist4315d ago

@Azmatik You make console gamers look really stupid, your GPU is being used all the time, even when your PS3 is idle it will be at 0-5% When watching video content (Streaming) it will be higher. All the console will be doing is decoding and playing a streamed video feed.

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90°

Microsoft’s Surface and Xbox hardware revenues take a big hit in Q3

Microsoft just posted the third quarter of its 2024 fiscal financial results. The software maker made $61.9 billion in revenue and a net income of $21.9 billion during Q3. Revenue is up 17 percent, and net income has increased by 20 percent.

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theverge.com
darthv7211h ago

Xbox content + services up 62% while hardware down 31%... seems about right with the way they tout you don't need the hardware to play. People can play on their phones or smart tv or other means. I don't hardly play on my consoles directly since getting devices like the logitech g-cloud and ps portal. Which is to also say I have been playing more digital than physical because of these devices.

purple10154m ago

Xbox hardware revenue tanks to lowest point of Xbox Series generation

Profchaos28m ago

I'm not surprised surface is struggling they aren't relevant anymore

140°

Sony Patents To Prevent You From In-Game Harassment By Reading Your Emotions

A new patent recently published by Sony wants to gather biometric data of gamers to track whether one is being harassed using AI tools.

Profchaos1d ago (Edited 1d ago )

I hope this is one of those patents that never comes to fruition.

I already dislike the fact you can pay a significant amount for a online service buy associated games and content on said service and get banned from that service over potentially a misunderstanding the bans are already handed out for flimsy reasons

I'd rather see money invested in a ban that simply removes the offensive players ability to communicate with unknown players allow them to continue party chats with friends but not with Joe blow on cod.

exputers21h ago

Agreed. Blizzard recently banned a college Overwatch 2 player who's dependent for saying "shit." Pretty harsh.

Profchaos5h ago(Edited 5h ago)

How rediculas really. You can't say a word that's allowed in most PG films and prime time TV but the game is based around killing the enemy team using guns, explosives etc.

It's just backwards.

just_looken7h ago

What your talking about is called block list

In 2006 a spaceship dropped of the playstation 3/xbox 360 i say that that generation was the last great gen with game functions/tech that has yet to comeback

Anyhow the playstation 3 if you block listed a id they could not talk to you in chatroom with either text or voice. But that was pre mind fucked 2018 when people were more human than sheep.

But hey gta 6 is coming out billion dollar budget without a single player custom character creator and without singeplayer coop off/online something saints row 1-3 had on the xbox 360.

z2g17h ago

Take my social security and bank account numbers too! Here’s a picture of my wife and our address.

phoenixwing16h ago

Cmon where's the pictures of your children. Don't hold out on them.

H917h ago

At this rate I feel Sony will eventually sell a room to play games in it where they can monitor your every breath

jambola13h ago

I genuinely get a bit worried sometimes when a friend says something that could be offensive In a party
Because I have no trouble believing some bans would happen when in a private party for saying something wrong

SegaSaturn66916h ago

I want them to censor erotic content by measuring my groin temperature so i dont get too distracted while playing black ops 2.

Popsicle15h ago

Terrible idea. Not only do I not consent to providing my biometric data, the potential for mishandling biometric data is almost a certainty. Positive stress and negative stress can produce similar changes in biometrics. Interpreting the precise emotion a person is feeling is not only invasive but could be easily misconstrued. I hope this never comes to fruition.

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300°

Microsoft Seemingly Closes Bethesda France

As part of its plans to cut 1,900 jobs, Microsoft has reportedly shut down operations at Bethesda France, letting go roughly 15 people

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insider-gaming.com
Hereandthere1d 8h ago

Microsoft should have left them stay 3rd party

GamerRN1d 5h ago

If they are let go, they can be whatever they want. They ARE 3rd party now... 🤦

Barlos1d 3h ago

Yeah, they're also jobless.

GamerRN20h ago

They can form a company if they want, they are just as jobless as if "Microsoft had left them as 3rd party".

peppeaccardo21h ago

"MIcrosoft leaves Bethesda do what they know how to do best" ... close! Oh the irony ....
(Citation from a week old article)

ChasterMies17h ago

I think Microsoft and other game publishers are letting people go because they think ai will replace them. Doesn’t matter how much profit they make. They were always going to be let go.

PassNextquestion1d 7h ago (Edited 1d 7h ago )

Bethesda France was made up of roughly 15 people... they couldn't of being doing much

Bethesda France mainly did publishing and marketing within the region

blacktiger1d 5h ago

that's a shame for you to say that, i'm sure Elite loves hearing what you just said.

Mr Logic15h ago

What a stupid thing to say. The elites give 0 fucks what we say on an obscure website in the comments section.

Crows9015h ago

You can always reach out and give them jobs at your company man. Don't wait

Profchaos1d 7h ago (Edited 1d 7h ago )

Bethesda France focused on publishing and marketing in the region. And 15 people lost their jobs as part of the closure.

I wonder if this is part of Microsoft's strategy to abandoned physical media or possibly gamepass advertising makes their roles redundant you don't need to market a game as hard when the majority of players get the game as part of a sub which already promoted upcoming games

Tacoboto1d 7h ago

It's France too, there's a high likelihood only 1-2 people on the team even had an Xbox.

Profchaos1d 7h ago

Possibly guven all the leaks we know the Xbox brand is really struggling in the region.

Yi-Long1d 4h ago

Well, if your consoles and games are barely found in any stores any more, of course you're gonna struggle finding consumers ...

XiNatsuDragnel1d 6h ago

Tbh Microsoft I think Bethesda being 3rd party same with Activision would probably more competitive than thus scenario imo

Profchaos1d 4h ago (Edited 1d 4h ago )

I think it would have been better for all parties really especially gamers

TheColbertinator1d 5h ago

The recently purchased Activision French offices might take over all the licensing and marketing for Microsoft in France from now on.

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