When will the game industry’s representation of women change?

Edge: It’s curious what can happen when you don’t write something. There are obvious things, like you don’t get paid, and nobody reads it, but sometimes, as in the case I’m about to describe, the thing you didn’t write gets more interesting for not having been written; as though it’s silently accruing wisdom while shuffling through magazines in the gloomy waiting room of pre-existence.

[lilbroRx]

It'll change when women change it themselves by making their own games and not sitting feeling entitled expecting men to do everything for them only to complain that they don't like the result.

Only women can make a game that they like. If the desires of women made any sense to men, then dating them would not be 90% as difficult as it is.

Another huge problem with this entire "feminazi" movement in gaming is that a lot of women actually like the most of the portrayals of women in games that are often the target of attack by feminists, like Princess Peach and Zelda. Most women I know like the characters and have nothing bad to say about them. These pseudo feminist, on the other hand, attack Nintendo repeatedly for their portrayals of the characters because they aren't the star action heroes in their game and they often have to be saved. Many women love the idea of being a peaceful princess respected for her humility getting saved by a hero. I guess those women's interests are invalid.

[LOGICWINS]

Very intelligent comment!

[IanTH]

You used the word "feminazi"...hate that word. Rush Limbaugh loves you for it though. "Expect men to do everything for them"...dock you another point. We all know the cycle of men in the industry, hiring men in the industry blah blah blah. Not quite so easy for women to just make games for women.

But in all honesty, why do people talk like certain groups need to be catered to? It's basically a question of just being given an option. Or the core question of why 99 percent of protagonists are white males. Would your enjoyment of any mainstream game be lessened by the lead being female? I know I wouldn't have issue with it. Season 2 of The Walking Dead features Clementine as the lead. Heavenly sword has Nariko as lead. Beyond has Jodi as lead. Are any of these games lessened by their mains being women? Unquestionably not. So why not have more games with more diverse leads?

Sure there are games that it doesn't make sense to have female leads, or a vision that someone has that needs a male lead to attain. But asking men to "cater" to women is silly. Cannot there be a head writer or Creative Lead that is a woman and have a team follow out that vision? Or a game like inFamous changing leads to a female. Gameplay isn't going to be completely changed because of it, just a different narrative slant. It's not like there needs to be a 100% female company out there making games only for women. We just need a wider acceptance of females (and other groups) as viable protagonists in video games in general. Not new genres, but something everyone would enjoy. Seems simple and attainable enough to me.

[ShinMaster]

I'm actually surprised they even mentioned Nintendo.

Whenever we see article complaining about the portrayal of women, they always give them a pass.

[lilbroRx]

I don't know what dimension you've been living in to make you believe that. Nintendo has always been the center for everyone's attacks whether it be women, animals,homosexuality or anything. Even in that Foxconn thing, even though Sony, Apple Microsoft had been using the company longer and still were at the time, the media just focused soley on Nintendo.

Were you living under a rock after the Zelda reveal or when Metroid Other M came out.

http://www.whygodwhy.org/t2...
http://psychphan.wordpress....

http://www.digitallydownloa...
http://nintendoranter.wordp...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

http://mashable.com/2014/05...

There was this one big video by one of the most prominent feminist in gaming that just crucified Nintendo for any selective thing she could find and that made some huge waves for a while.

You name it, Nintendo gets attacked for it.

[kreate]

Someone give lilbro a bubvle please.

[ShinMaster]

@ libroRx

Wow, you actually went through the trouble of Googling obscure blogs and random forum posts. Ok then.

- Nintendo has "always" been the target? Yet that homosexuality topic is rather new. Especially for Nintendo.
- Dude, were you sleeping when everyone kept talking about Sony and Foxconn during the PS4's launch?
Something about being cheap and encouraging a certain type of labor and whatnot.
- Animals? You mean Pokemon? Well it was pretty obvious that animal rights nazis would notice. I mean, even in the TV show a Pokemon that doesn't like to batter is considered disobedient. The only difference between good and bad Pokemon trainers were those who did it with a smile and those who didn't. It's something I noticed more as I grew older. But anyway, I don't agree with those critics though because it's all still fun and games to me.
- And feminazis are known to attack everything when it comes to women. Hell, a couple of articles even found Ellie's portrayal in TLOU somehow sexist. Stop victimizing Nintendo.

Some of the Metroid fanbase disliked that she was no longer her own boss and seemed too dependent on Adam. The fact that she had every power up from the start but was reluctant to use them, even if here life may be at risk until she got permission, was a legitimate opinion.

By the way, that last link you posted was to a satirical article. And it was hilarious. Maybe you should have read it before posting it lol.

[ShinMaster]

* made a couple of errors there.
I meant battle not "batter" and her not "here".

[LightDiego]

Again this? I expected more from Edge.

[XiNarutoUzumaki]

Nobody cares.

[Jury]

When someone makes Call of House Duties

[Naga]

I really shouldn't have, but I laughed so hard that I nearly dropped my phone.

Then I interrupted my wife's game of Child of Light to show her.

[yugovega]

funniest comment ever

[DefenderOfDoom2]

These articles are not saying they hate NINTENDO or other video game companies, they are just asking for a more diverse choice of video game protagonist. There is nothing wrong with that. I think the authors of these articles very much enjoy and play the video games we all play. This is just a conversation . No need to worry or get angry.

[Gh05t]

yeah at what point does it get to be "nagging" because we are pretty much there.

Its not a conversation because they don't care what the rebuttal is. They have their point of view and if you have a different one they call you wrong with nothing to back it up other than how the feel and what they think is right in the face of business, capitalism, marketing, and LOGIC.

If its such a great idea run a kickstarter and make the most EPIC female lead game ever and gain more money than anyone because there is such an outcry for this from the consumers. (I do truly believe this should happen BTW the problem is most are games about girls with it thrown in your face and that alienates men)

Again my biggest problem with this whole argument is NOBODY is stopping anyone from making a game with a female lead. They may not pay for it but they sure aren't stopping a developer from quitting their job going indie and doing it themselves.

[ArtificiallyYours]

When we have less adult crybabies stinking up the Television?

[johny5]

When will women's representation of women change?

[zero_gamer]

When will people that want a specific kind of game actually make one?

[rick5292]

nice to see a lot of common sense on the boards here

[donwel]

Agreed, it gives me hope for the community. The journalists, not so much.

[masterfox]

Why not making awesome fun games instead of worrying of that? , if that comes what the article says, just let it come simple as that, let it be here naturally not because it was forced, when something is forced and it prevails it will always going to have some kind of problems around it, but when something is here naturally is just because is the way it is, it follows logic, facts and science.

[Gh05t]

"...I hope one day games about women and girls can be created without them being considered a response, and can exist in their own right."

THEN STOP WRITING ARTICLES LIKE THIS!

Let it come naturally. As more women join the teams, create the teams, and run the teams and more men or women write stories based on female characters this will happen.

You just want it NOW!

In order to get it right now it will feel like and be looked at as a response.

[AgentSmithPS4]

"Still using all the muscles except the one that matters?" - a Smith (sorry I couldn't resist)

"My son ... is told every day, that he can join the ranks of the elite athlete superstars ... earn the instant adoration of thousands with a sharp turn and a kick of the ball. That he can win the World Cup. My daughter was being told that, if she got her eyeliner just so, and matched her clutch bag flawlessly with her earrings, she could fulfill her own potential by becoming an accessory in turn for the protagonist of a different story."

Parents that complain about things like this are the problem, they want SOMEONE ELSE to teach their child what's really important. Whether it's schools, 'educational' TV shows, etc for kids or politicians, etc for adults, they don't want to do the hard work themselves (that hard work includes thinking since it isn't fun for many folks). BTW "elite athlete" or "accessory" they're not really doing anything important, that takes brains and a desire to make the world better. "Oh wow look at that guy kick that ball, he's my hero!" said some adoring fan. Where are all the fans for the people that invented A/C, cars, medicine, computers, etc? <fake angry voice> Why aren't there more Assassins Creed games that are educational!? I want to learn math while I kill people!

It's time to wake up, take responsibility, and take control, otherwise you'll still be living in a dream world that can quickly turn into a nightmare.

[Gh05t]

I was writing something along the same lines as this but you said it better.

Turn the GAME off and go teach your children what LIFE is really about and how the MEDIA is just that... entertainment, Its not a REPRESENTATION of LIFE its a representation of a virtual life which does not exist!

[DefenderOfDoom2]

So, if so the developer wants to have a non white female protagonist and the PUBLISHER will not put the game out until the developer changes the protagonist to a white male. Then according to some of the comments above me, you should agree , that the white male protagonist, is being forced on us! So are you not going to watch the new STAR WARS MOVIE because JJ ABRAMS changed the script that the studio was going to use for the next STAR WARS movie, so he can have a diverse set of characters that represent people all over planet earth?

[extermin8or]

Wtf are you on about? Can you offer any credible proof that this has occurred in recent years to any games? I'm guessing No.

[Gh05t]

Nope! the publisher is the bank roller they are PAYING to put a white male in... that's not forced labor.

It may feel forced in the story (Which just makes it bad writing to not change it) but its not the same as the person on the side line saying, "Make me a game with a female, or ill hate you forever" Even though they wont pay for it to be made or make it themselves. They want to try and force others to front the money and make stuff for them.

[aliengmr]

Gamers actually pay for games, and most of the time they buy sight unseen.

Publishers make the initial investment, which we, in turn, buy. The Publishers expect their money back, gamers just pay.

Kind of weird that the only group that can't have a say, are the ones actually purchasing the experience.

[extermin8or]

Working on this persons logic video games are also telling all itallian men that they can look forward to dive down drain pipes as 'plumbers'. Video hames are a fantasy; an escape from reakity depending on who isnmaking it will decide what thebcjaracters within represent dependant on the creators view. If they want a more realistic closer to real life representation of strongnwomen characters then tjey can have that but if they want tongo mpre sort of medievil with strong male characters who's goal isbto save the woman or the woman isbonly there as a love interest etc then they can do that too. Plenty of women seem perfectly at home and happy with the idea of a man coming along and 'saving them'/offering protection and pkenty don't like that-they'll be a reason for it somewhere in human societies past (doesnt take a genius to work it out). But point is many of the games this persons complaining about likely had women working in various areas of its development who were perfectly fine with womens representation in the game. Look at Assassins Creed; no women playable cjaracters in the main line games yet Jade Raymond is a fairly strong influemce behondnthe games and their direction-a relatively successful and higher ranking women wothin the industry compared to many others yet she hasnt felt the need to make sam fisher a woman or try and have a female protagonist in AC.. so...

[donwel]

Why do people always forget about AC: Liberation.
I mean, I know it was a bit shit but come on.

[Aleithian]

It's been changing for years. The question is, when will it change to what you want it to be.

[DCfan]

Meh, its a videogame. People seem to forget they're fantasy.

[Inception]

Agreed. I don't care if it man, women, alien, dragon, skeleton, dog, etc. It's a video game and i want it to be fun and worth my time and money.

[DeusEx-Machina]

That's like asking when will the representation of humans in video games change.

Seriously, they're all caricatures.

[fonduktoe]

When they stop having vaginas

[saviin]

When games are developed by someone who has actually talked to one.

[DefenderOfDoom2]

Well i have been working in the ENTERTAINMENT industry for over 30 years and i have been told many times from the owner of the company, not to cater to a non white consumer, because some of white consumers will be offended by non white consumers . Even though the white consumers loved the entertainment i provide! And i know that some of the non white consumers i catered to were doctors , nurses ect... and just good hard working people ! When they tell me this, i leave the company , and make another company lots of money ! That being said, i think the video game industry and the world is getting better everyday , So no complaints here ! I am trying to be positive ! And again remember this is just a conversation. Also i do agree with the comments that said "just make a good video game that is fun period !" That should be the first priority ! Which i believe is kinda hard for developers to achieve ! But i do believe their are all kinds of great video games that are fun everybody to play now, and a lot more to come in the future! One last thing , i watched a lot of TV at nightime in the 70's because my parents were never around , so shows like ALL IN THE FAMILY ,HAPPY DAYS , TAXI, THE JEFFERSONS, ONE DAY A TIME, heck even MORK and MINDY and movies like the GODFATHER 1 and 2 , GUESS WHO COMING TO DINNER, all molded me into being a better person! The little time i did spend with my parents growing up, they also taught me how to a better person also! A lot of parents are working 2 to three jobs to provide shelter and food for their children, so while their children are playing video games or watching TV it is good have a few shows and a few video games that teach good life lessons! By the way my role models growing up were my parents because they worked so hard to give food and shelter!CHARLES BARKLEY believes that parents should be the role models, not ATHLETES and ENTERTAINERS , and i agree with him 110percent! But CHARLES BARKLEY will go out his way , with a big smile on his face to help children be better people! That is awesome! What i do like about video games, for the most part in video games , your the good guy or lady, or whatever, fighting evil . That is awesome! So again i am not really complaining. I think in general the human race is getting better everyday!!! CHEERS! Oh can someone help me out? I can use another bubble to converse with. Thanks

[j0ncap125]

When more women start working in the industry and write compelling stories with female leads. The player base is already there, it's just up to them now.

[Mike_D82]

When will video game journalists stop writing about crap no one cares about?

[ShaunCameron]

When women get up off their butts and make their own games, because only women can truly represent women.