Can the Nintendo Switch Survive Without Achievements?

TechRaptor writes, "The Nintendo Switch will be dead on arrival without an achievement system. With less than two months to go can Nintendo fix this major setback?"

[crazychris4124]

No trophy or achievement system is far from the Switch's biggest problem

[-Foxtrot]

But it does add to the long list

Was it that hard to add a Nintendo Stamp, Coin or Star system.

[badz149]

they have proven that it's already very hard for them to get with the time as it is.

kinda makes you scratch your head really....when they are selling the mini SNES with 30 packed in games you can play anytime for $60 and yet they are thinking of charging for their online and give 1 of those games every month and for that month only! 20 to 30 years old games!! what ancient mind at Nintendo that think that this is even remotely close to a good idea especially when Sony is already giving over $100 worth of relatively new games for their 3 systems every month for you to keep as long as your subscription?

[81BX]

Rofl. I need an award every time i do something! Stfu! Its called a high score pussies!

[RedPill86]

Achievements don't sell games. They never have. It's just a way of getting a handful of people addicted and stats prove that it doesn't work. Thanks to the new "rare achievements" system on Xbox, you can see that more than 90% of players tend to not give a crap about pretty much all a game has to offer. The instead stick to the one thing they like and don't fall away from it very often.

[joab777]

Took the words right out of my mouth. The Switch is like this year's NMS but much much worse.

If I had low expectations and it was $200, I might be impressed. Instead because my expectations were high and figured that Nintendo realized how important this launch was for their future, Im having a hard time . Such a let down!

[Ark_]

Hello Games didn't deliver AS PROMISED - Nintendo just didn't deliver.
That's a big difference imo.

[The Great Melon]

Maybe I am in the minority, but the lack of a trophy/achievements is a positive in my book. They tend to be distracting and for those with OCD tendencies a major killjoy. Before tackling something in my backlog, I often catch myself weighing games not for their quality but for their feasibility of achievement completion. Achievements end up being an onerous burden rather than enjoyable extra.

There much bigger issues regarding the Switch that I would like to see resolved such as peripheral pricing and voice-chat.

[joab777]

They are also often a reason to keep playing and add hours of enjoyment for many. Yeah, many can be absurd and you can waste your time and miss out on other great games. But I love the option. It's a strategy that mmo's have used for a long time because we love to chase after things. All it is missing is rewards like avatars or themes for getting 25 platinums or 100 gold etc.

[FallenAngel1984]

Achievements and Trophies will be huge factors in a lot of consumers' decision in what console to buy a multiplatform game on. Nintendo neglecting such a market proven feature will mean that most multiplat will continue to sell less on their device.

[Neonridr]

? What do an achievement do for you? Do you get tingles in your pants when you hear the ding of a platinum? Do you show your wife or girlfriend when you got the achievement that required 10,000 hours of play time?

Why is it a huge factor exactly?

[MyDietEqualsGames]

If achievements reward for conquering difficult stuff in games, it's bragging rights. That's what they were made for.
Face it, this is the internet and half of it like to brag. :P

Achievements can also lead people to do more in game than they normally would. It can add replay value on it's own, the feature. They're not just simply edick points. There are quite a few pluses about them, but there are some negatives too. Either way, it wouldn't have hurt to have some type of placeholder system while they get a real one ready.

[Neonridr]

@MyDiet - yeah, it can add replay value, or force you to do tedious stuff which the dev can pretend fluffs out a games overall length.

I am not discounting achievements, just questioning why some people value them so much when they have no real value outside of a few 1's and 0's.

[MonsterChef]

You know I i actually do like to hear the chime and see the trophy when I get one. Don't need to show my girlfriend it but it is always fun to look at my friend's trophies, when were waiting on a lobby, it adds more than it takes away.

[Bahamut]

It's not about 1's and 0's. It's about the effort you put towards gaining those 1's and 0's. For instance, I noticed a friend of mine recently "platinumed" Bloodborne, which prompted me to say to him, "How the hell did you do that??". Which I'm sure he loved.

[Yui_Suzumiya]

Tingles in your pants, looool

[SonyWarrior]

trophies is a social feature so i understand why you dont get the need since you dont have friends

[Firebird360]

They add a huge amount of replay or continued play for me personally. I'm so used to them now, the thought of not having them is odd.

[MyDietEqualsGames]

@Neon
Fair enough, friend. I think it's pretty fucked up to put that on the list of things this console have floundered at, post reveal. But there are a lot of legitimate concerns about the console. I've been to several of the big forums and man, the general community are just not thrilled at all.

It's up to the casual/mainstream to decide of this thing lives or dies, because it seems like the core crowd who are not Nintendo fans and even some who are, are off put.

But, closing, I do understand your position. It frustrates me when we judge shit without knowing the full deal, with Switch, we don't know the full plans regarding online or anything, but as some on GAF have pointed out, they had the start of gen 6 to get their shit together regarding online infrastructure. That shit takes time to build and when I was on PS3 PSN I felt like a damned beta tester, especially after they announced paid for PS4.

Nintendo thinks it can't learn anything aside from itself and that is what pisses a lot of people off about the Switch reveal. The Hardcore. Also, while im not getting one on launch, you assholes that eat up preorders just to get the fastest one to your doorstep while everyone else suffers who wants one, FUCK YOU.

You may mark this as inappropriate.

@Neon thanks for remaining civil, I also want you to know I didn't disagree. I only disagree with people if it's gonna be that way. Otherwise I won't agree or disagree, but remain neutral.

[81BX]

If you need achiements to push more buttons, you have bigger problems my diet... not saying u but gamers in gen.

[Sparta07]

@ Neo, I'm with you. I play a game the way I want to, not cause of trophies. If it's a good game I'll play the hell out of it. I never understood the point of it. I don't even think I have platinum trophy. 🙄

[mclean_514]

Usually when i get a platinum trophy I tell my wife. Then she looks at me weird and asks what the hell is that.

[bluefox755]

You are completely missing the point. A lot of people really enjoy collecting achievements. Sure, you don't really "get" anything from it, besides bragging rights, but people like it none-the-less. If you don't like it, that's fine, they're not mandatory. But why would you be against Nintendo picking up a popular feature?

[Dragonscale]

@bahamut, I too have the Bloodborne plat. And all the Souls games plats. It was frickin difficult put it that way lol.

[Tetsujin]

I agree with Neondir on this. I'd rather play a game my way, and have my own adventure(s) rather than playing a game the developers formed by applying scores each time something happens.

I see trophies/achievements as a checklist to see what has been accomplished. With that said, I've played games before this whole "Scoring list" was implemented, and honestly I prefer the older days where unlockables were far more rewarding than some "ding" or message. If I play a game, it's to have fun, and fits my needs as a gamer, not because it has a scoring system. If games like Chrono Trigger had trophies/achievements, the majority would get certain weapons/armor only because the score said so, not because they feel it's going to benefit the player later in the game.

If I recall the Wii U had an optional scoring system, which no one really took the time to implement, because it's a waste of time honestly. And for those who argue in favor of trophies/achievements, have a constructive, logical reason behind why they are important. "Because it adds life to a game" is not acceptable because there's games without it that have longer play times.

[InTheZoneAC]

have you even played a video game outside your cell phone and why are you here?

[Darkwatchman]

This guy gets dislikes, but he's not saying he won't buy it because it doesn't have trophy or achievement equivalents. There are a lot of achievement and trophy whores out there that sully the name of real gamers. I can not tell you how many posts I've come across on PlayStationtrophies.org in which people say they won't buy a game because it doesn't have an easy platinum or because it's platinum takes too long. I was browsing a forum not too long ago on that site looking up trophy lists of different rpg's just because I was curious, not because it would influence my decision to buy them.

Low and behold, I found a thread of people agreeing that they wouldn't ever buy any rpg's with hard platinums. Only rpg's with easy platinums. Those kinds of idiotic consumers do exist and those idiots with that sort of mentality will never buy a switch solely for that reason.

[dp277407]

Honestly a person isn't going to pass up a game they love regardless of the trophies some groups just like to know what games they can buy for easy trophies. I don't see how an achievement system thing would hurt, only possibly make more ppl play a game they might not have before.

[rainslacker]

I doubt it's going to be that much of a deterrent without trophies/achievements.

However, you'd think after all these years, Nintendo would actually implement something that has become rather standard practice over a decade ago.

Some people like them. They don't really take anything away from the game. In some cases, it can give reason to keep playing a game as it gives more challenges so it doesn't get dull as quick. So on and so forth.

[PhoenixUp]

@ Neo

Why does that aspect matter?

The point is that Achievements and Trophies do in fact entice certain consumers to buy games, and Switch not having its own equivalent is going to result it having the least amount of software sales for most multiplatform titles.

[admiralvic]

Here is the thing though. Nintendo has neglected it for so long that they won't win regardless.

One of the ingenious things about the trophy/achievement system is that it has built in brand loyalty. Like, if I were to ditch the PSN for XBL, I would be going from an account that has well over 100,000 gamerscore (I have over 100 platinums alone) to an account that has maybe 0. This is no desirable, so I am more likely to stick with Sony, if only to stick where I have my stuff. The same holds true for Nintendo.

Anyone coming to Nintendo would be back at zero. Many people don't want to restart, less will see it as an advancement, so I really think it is too late for Nintendo to get into this game. Especially since, even though Sony implemented it some time after Microsoft, there is something like eight years difference between Trophies and Nintendo potentially launching something.

[RedPill86]

Go look at the "rare achievements" system on Xbox. You couldn't be more false. A great deal of players don't bother with most of them.

[Dragonscale]

Nothing with them being difficult then?

[ApocalypseShadow]

I'm an old school gamer that has been playing since pong and early computers like commodore and Texas instruments.

Trophies, achievements and all that extra fluff mean absolutely nothing to me.I play a game to have fun and to beat it like chess.I only worried about high scores and time when it unlocked something useful in a game. But if trophies are removed from PS4, I wouldn't miss them.

For example, I just played and beat Inside ($10 sale) and enjoyed the experience. Very fun game just like the companies previous game Limbo. Nothing about the game made me thing about some trophy popping up. Some gamers may like finding every item or collecting every trophy but overall, they add nothing to the game. Nintendo not having any won't make Zelda or Mario Odyssey not fun.

How did some of you play games before trophies and achievements were added?

[Bigpappy]

Its not a deal breaker for me, but I like being told when I have reached a milestone. At time I am just play and enjoying the game and all of a sudden, you "have shot 100 baddies in the right eye". I have a big smile and chat with mu brother to find out if he got that one. Its a little thing, but I prefer it there than not.

[ApocalypseShadow]

I find the captions funny too. Then I end up forgetting trophies ever existed and move on.

I must be a relic as my achievements or trophies were beating games like mega man, contra, castlevania and ninja gaiden by myself or with a friend and that was the end of it. Competition was in sports games or street fighter. But I never bragged. I enjoyed the combat. If I lost,I practiced. If I won,I encouraged them to get better so that we can battle again.

This new era of worrying about a chime is not for me. I just like playing.

[PhoenixUp]

In the grand scheme of things it's not how you personally feel about them, but how a lot of other gamers do.

The fact a game as ridiculous as I Am Mayo can sell so much just because it has an easy Platinum trophy just shows you that these kind of rewards do matter to a sizable amount of consumers and their buying habits.

[P_Bomb]

It's a social thing. The whole "how did you get by before" argument is passé, considering they never had a LOT of things "back in the day". From 2TB internals to cloud. Things change.

Most people probably don't need most of the things their cell phones do, but they're not going back to rotary either. Neither are gamers, if the Wii-u was any indication. Minimum standards have changed. Especially when it comes to electronics and features.

[Sm00thNinja]

One less feature that the other BIG 2 have. So yes it does hurt

[RedPill86]

It doesn't sell systems. It never will. The "rare achievements" system on Xbox One proves it. If the PS4 had an equivalent we'd see the same pattern. The fact that the Switch doesn't have Netflix support at launch is more likely to keep people from buying it as Netflix is slowly becoming more popular than cable.

[Sm00thNinja]

No one said it sells systems but does it push software? YES I'm more inclined to purchase a multiplatform game on an opposing console for trophy support

[RedPill86]

@Sm00thNinja

DUDE. YOU ARE NOT THE AVERAGE CONSUMER.

Dear every idiot on N4G. You all seem to lack this fairly basic knowledge that YOU are the "hardcore" gamer. Most people that buy consoles and games? They aren't that. They don't come on N4G for a news fix. They don't pick 'Which' system to get a game on based on feature support like trophies, they pick A system to buy games for PERIOD, and generally neglect the other. I've already taken this myth the achievements and trophies sell games or make them more likely to be purchased and blew it up.

Let's take Overwatch for example. only 30 of the 71 achievements have been earned by more than 10% of the community, and most of those, just barely. That leaves 41 that 91% or more have not been able to get. Pretty large gap here. Clearly no large amount of people came for the trophies at all, nothing a group of shareholders would care about. Achievements and trophies are the biproduct of glorified bragging rights that both companies implemented because it was cheap and easy to do. Especially for Sony as whatever was made for the Xbox at the time just needed the PS version.

Not convinced? Let's try the Witcher 3.

45 achievements 9% of the playerbase or less has finished. And the trend continues from game to game, some worse than others (Halo MCC in particular, a great many of them are rare). Pretty well have of any given games achievements only 9% of the community OR LESS (and usually less, around 3% to 4%) actually finish them. The rest are generally just over or at the 50% mark.

Dark Souls 3. A game that I consider to be fairly easy (highly overrated difficulty), less than half the community has reached the 3rd boss. only 29% has even come to one of the 4 bosses required to finish (lowest percentage). For both ending achievements you get a total of 31% (19%-12% split), but, because only 29% of the community beat one of the 4 bosses required to reach the end. So let's just pretend that 75% of players haven't even beat the game. That means 25% did. And to think that those people stuck around for the achievements would be insane. only "1%" have attained all the achievements, and that's aiming high as the system automatically goes to 1% as soon as 1 player has it) The guys that buy games from achievements (and I'm one of them, I complete everything I play, be that trophies or achievements, with the exception of what I'm currently working on)

They don't sell software. Never did. The stats show that most people straight up could not care less.

[Neonridr]

Of course it can. Who actually brags about their achievements? Do they help you out in real life?

Never understood the fascination..

[Quicksand]

I know I don't brag about it but I do like seeing them, makes me feel like I saw 100% of the game. Like Mario games finding all the different coins and stuff without achievements or some sort of tracker I might not ever see certain areas of the game but a achievement give you a small reason to search for things you missed. In reality if you like them or not, what does it hurt? More is good.

[admiralvic]

Like I mentioned above, I like them because they give you an idea of what is and is not real. I can see who played what, how far they got and even get an idea of where their perspective came from.

Like if I said Vanquish sucked and I don't have the trophy/achievement list, then you can pretty much ignore my opinion. Likewise, if I said Demon's Souls was amazing and had the platinum, at least it shows this person knows something about what they're talking about.

[bluefox755]

That's like saying: "Who brags about beating a game?" or "Who brags about winning a competition?"
TONS of people do. It's human nature to be proud of accomplishing something that may have been particularly challenging and then wanting to share that sense of accomplishment with others.
"Do they help you out in real life?"
No, but who cares? It makes people feel good. What's the problem? Do you get angry when a trophy is given out at the end of a competition as well?

[Neonridr]

no, but that's a physical thing that you can actually take with you. even at video game championships they had out real trophies..

if it makes you feel good, then good on you. But that shouldn't be the deciding factor when buying a console.

[RedPill86]

Bragging is pointless. I use them for review purposes. So when I do have to give out a negative review or a positive one, people saying "Oh you didn't play this so you can't see how good/bad it is", I can cram the 100% down their throat and say I've experienced pretty well everything this game has to offer. Not very often I miss things in games as I don't like not getting something out of a game that I could when I've already paid for it.

[deathtok]

I've been wanting Nintendo to add this for a while. I have to admit I like achievements and trophies. It's a neat digital record of accomplishments!

[Rachel_Alucard]

Achievements and trophies are nothing but a way to get marketing data off the consumer. Adding these is giving corporate the thumbs up.

[BlakHavoc]

What are you doing Nintendo?

[TuxedoMoon]

What? Of course it can.
Achievements/trophies are kinda stupid anyway.
You defeated 10000000 enemies! GOOD FOR YOU BUDDY!

Back in my day, doing that tedious crap unlocked in game stuff like BIG HEAD MODE. Today we just get good job stickers (trophies/achievements) and bragging rights...? Doing that list of CHORES doesn't make you a better gamer or something. So what if you got the platinum sticker...what did you get? No big head mode? What a waste...

There are simply too many games out there to play and I'd rather beat a game and move onto the next one. I only stick with one game if there's things I want to unlock, like Digimon or DLC stuff.

Nintendo game don't need a trophy system at all. Nintendo just needs more positive press and 3rd part support if anything. Trophies aren't important!

[DualWielding]

yes but it can't survive with ridiculous overpriced hardware, ridiculous overpriced essential accesories, paid online that depends on a cell phone app to get things done among many other things

[hahaha]

They can by doing that stupid fingers click.

[FloydianAndroid]

This is just food for thought, but I wonder if the reason Nintendo has lagged so far behind for so long has something to do with The fact that they don't seem to care about the western consumer. It seems like they couldn't care less what the other consoles do to be successful. I

[Ark_]

I've got exactly the same feeling.
The Switch fits the Japanese culture of commuting and their small living spaces perfectly. It's also pretty usual to see grown ups reading comics or playing games in public - kids even more so. I personally like that a lot, but it's different to western cultures (as far as my experience goes).

Also I am wondering, why they don't use the input of Nintendo America or Nintendo Europe - propably just gets acknowledged and ignored.

[FloydianAndroid]

I agree. It's not like the executives at Nintendo are unintelligent and have no idea what westerners want out of a console, it's more that they just don't care. They do what they do and honestly I respect it. They make the best first party games in my opinion. I didn't buy a wii or wii u but I did have a 3ds and loved it. I see all this potential in them building a console that has graphical power and I see them rebooting old franchises and I see all this potential, but at the end of the day they make what they want and They're not gonna change and in a way respect that.

[Derceto]

Switch couldn't survive with achievements, much less without them. Achievements are the least of this turd's problems.

[quent]

Only important to those who incessantly love grinding in they're games, also helps with buyers remorse so people can claim that they got they're moneys worth because they spent X nr of hrs for X items the game.

Pathetic and sad that news media can only survive by spreading weak negatives like this and coining phrases "like dead on arrival"

The Switch's 2 main problems are the price vs the rumored/expected price and what looks like a very weak attempt at an online subscription service,
Any other negatives and shortcomings can be compared and pointed to any other console at release

[DeadManMMX]

The META GAME does mean something to certain hardcore number of us and I was really hoping they would finally realize it this gen.

[XXanderXX]

They will be fine ,not like we need more use less crap that really has no value.

[kainslayer]

well i hate achievements /trophies gaming existed before will exist after ,Its purely cosmetic or made for bragging rights epen etc. i would choose a metroid prime by retro on the switch than useless achievemt implementation.

[OhReginald]

too bad I rather like trophies/ achievements. Very proud of all my souls game platinums.

[CaitSith]

Why does he do that thing with his thumbs? It looks so stupid.

[Kurdishcurse]

any gamer needing achievements is a sad gamer. pfffft hahah piss off with this hilariously horrible article.

[MasterCornholio]

Lacking achievements won't kill the device though. Seems like most of the issue is with the price not the lack of trophies.

[RedPill86]

Right. That's what's going to tank this console. It's not the insane pricing on everything from the machine to the controllers to the games. It's not the pointless paid online. It's not the fact that the only game worth buying it for will be up for grabs on Wii U, and likely cheaper. It's not the underwhelming battery power. It's not the gimmicky crap from the Wii that didn't pan out due to horrid game support.

It's the achievements. That's what we needed to sell this system. Poor Nintendo, if only they added them sooner.

[Zjet]

not having arbutrary imaginary back pats to drive repeat gameplay? Oh no major setback.....

Some gamers play for story and experience not to be rewarded imaginary points so they can argue with their peers who the better gamer is.

[LAWSON72]

I love trophys on PS4.
Platinums are something I can dedicate a bunch of free time to. I enjoy a playthrough, then do the grind while i play spotify in the background. Right now I am just coasting my way through Skyrim.

Sadly I will not buy anything on Switch that is not 100% uniquely exclusive to the platform because as a home console gamer it is inferior in every way for me. That being said cant wait to play Zelda on the Switch day one and Mario next winter. I just think they would be better with some sort of trophy system

Just a worthy mention Xbox does custom leaderboards for every game with tons of stats, that is almost just as awesome as having trophies maybe Switch will have something like that

[Dragonscale]

It may seem trivial to some but its another negative in quite a long list now for the switch.

[jc12]

I'd be shocked if this console sold more the 20-25 million units in its life time.

[Einhander1971]

Grow up babies get your mummy to pat you on the head, who gives a shit just enjoy the game the experience for f@@k sake!!!

[InTheZoneAC]

someone wanting a simple feature that the current market offers is not as bad as what seems like people literally raging/crying over those asking for this.

[Miacosa]

YES, most folks don't care.

[R3DRAIN89]

No. The less features they don't have to match other consoles will only lower there expectations of doin as well as ps4 or xbox 1

[InTheZoneAC]

If I'm going to shell out money for something it better have features I like. Obviously a system can't do everything, but then it better have some other features that make up for the lack of features.

My whole reason for buying the Wii U was for Zelda. I got the Wind Waker bundle and knew in some late time that Zelda would release. I also bought it for the Virtual Console, but they failed terribly in that aspect. I have a few other games like Mario and Donkey Kong.

...Now onto the Switch. They're charging $300 for a hybrid that has SUPER EXPENSIVE accessories/controllers. They also want to charge for online services and you have to use a phone app to party chat and the app won't even be available until Summer.

I will mostly be playing the Switch on TV so any expensive tech in the joycon controllers is useless to me. If I want a normal controller it's $80...If I subscribe to their service I get to play a really old game for a month and can't ever go back to it later like I do on ps3/ps4/vita. If I ever play online I have to use a phone for communication?

Excluding any kind of trophies/stars they have a lot in their way that isn't looking good. So just add the lack of trophies as another hit.

At the end of the day Nintendo is just telling me to buy Zelda for the Wii U.