Why No Man's Sky fans are worried about a patented Superformula

No Man's Sky uses fancy maths to generate its infinite, procedurally-generated galaxy. But is the maths Hello Games used to build the game its own creation?

[Overload]

Not worried.

[Aenea]

I'm a little worried and will stop worrying when I have the limited edition in my clammy little hands!

[Overload]

I'm not. Hello Games have overcame everything that has came their way. Floods and Trademarks, to people claiming it would flop and charging $60 for an "indie game". Like I said, I'm not worried. The concern trolling that comes along with this game is unbelievable.

I'm so ready for this game, it's not even funny.
https://i.redd.it/pqqzjaahs...

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

Mathematical Formulas cannot be patented in the U.S. So I'll be expecting my copy from Amazon on August 9th.

[CorndogBurglar]

It'll be fine. The company claiming this isndoing what every other company would. They waited until the product was finished before making a claim, this way too much time and money has been put into the project to shut it down.

There may be some kind of settlement that says this company will get a certain percentage of the sales or something, but there's no way the No Man's Sky devs will stop the release of the game af this point. They'll do anything they can to start making money back from creating this game.

[nveenio]

I'm not worried, because it's too late to stop the train.

[extermin8or]

I'm not worried because I looked at the company claiming's info and what exactly they were claiming and basically it's ridiculous. Even if there is any similarity or if part of the code is the same it really is just coincidence I'm sure and if you write some.formula that's got a different purpose but part of the code happens to be the same as another piece of code it'd usually be considered a coincidence unless it could be proven they directly stole your copy of the formula. In general fairly sure while you can patent apc code you can't patent actual formula. Just require acknowledgement In journals end scientific reseaellé eaves

[SonyWarrior]

why would we be worried the game will still be released and we all will be playing it i dont really care who swoops in and takes the money from it thats not our problem

[Aenea]

Don't mistake my actual concern for concern trolling, just hope nothing else happens and it will release on time!

Though this article seems to say we should not be worried and this company doesn't seem to want money, that IS a good thing! Keeping fingers crossed just in case tho!

[Overload]

Sorry, if you interpreted it like that. I wasn't talking about you, just in general surrounding the game.

[morganfell]

@Overload,

Most of the lengthy conversations I have witnessed hardly exercise any worry at all and instead view this Dutch company as a collection of scabs with no grounds for their accusations or claims. Think about it, they haven't see the source code but think in this modern era such procedural generation must be their code. Most fans are not worried.

[Aenea]

@morganfell
Hello Games have said in an interview last year they use the Superformula so this company doesn't have to see the sourcecode to know they've used it...

But I don't think they really are after money, to me, now, they come across as wanting to swap ideas since they wanted to create something that can be used for videogames to create the sorta thing NMS is already doing. So even tho they came up with the formula Hello Games seems to have more experience with it. So seems to me it's more a "let's talk how you did certain things and you can have a license for using it for free" kinda dealio...

[rainslacker]

I've found this particular case quite fascinating. Learned a lot from it...mostly from other forum goers and my own research due to the journalists not really doing any actual research, but learned none the less.

Best I can tell, this company isn't trying to patent troll. Many that live over in Holland seem to be of the belief that the patent holder is more interested in the application and how it can be used for a commercial product. Most say he doesn't seem interested in money, or trying to squeeze Hello Games on the cusp of release, but rather, more interested in how their formula could expand their own business enterprises.

Given that, it's highly likely that Hello Games could come out ahead as well, as likely they would have their own applications for the formula within the game that have nothing to do with the original patent, as NMS does a lot more than what this patent lays out.

The formula itself would appear to not be patentable, but the patent itself is for a specific application. To date, it would seem the patent holder does not have a solution which is marketable, but Hello Games, possibly using their own application, did make something that would be beneficial. As such, if they didn't modify and used a direct application as the patent lays out, that particular patent could now become something that is a viable product, whereas anything Hello Games did beyond that could also become it's own commercial product, and they could potentially both license the application....possibly through some sort of agreement for one to distribute.

Sadly, most people on here won't come to know all this stuff unless they do further research or go elsewhere to find more informed comments. There is still a lot of assumption floating around, but apparently it's not as bad as some people are making it out to be, and in this case, people are just coming to forgone conclusions.

This isn't the same as the whole Sky Networks thing....which was ridiculous....but could very well be legitimate, although still unknown...and could end up being beneficial for Hello Games in the long run.

[nitus10]

The so-called Superformula is basically standard maths which any high school teen should be able to understand. In fact, mathematical methodologies like this were known well over 300 years ago.

To be able to patent any mathematical formula, well the mind boggles. It's kind of like patenting breathing and unfortunately, with the right legalese it is even possible to do this. It just goes to show how broken the Patent system is.

[krypt1983]

Are you serious ? creating a algorithm that randomly generates planets, eco systems, living animals, materials etc is no simple task sounds like you need to go back to high school. People patent algorithms everyday in the security field, gambling business I really can't believe some of the stuff people say on this site then again your main console is a Playstation

[YinYangGaming]

Patent infringement can be very serious so I hope this doesn't delay the game but I wouldn't be shocked if it did

[Overload]

It literally says they aren't trying to delay the game in the article.

[YinYangGaming]

Yes well it seems rather odd they wait this close to launch to come out with this when they must have known about it for a while. Regardless, I'm hoping it doesn't but I'll wait for more to unfold

[_-EDMIX-_]

Read.......

[ritchi45]

Not worried one bit. The patent owner has already stated he won't look to delay the game or have its released cancelled. It sounded more like he wants to share how Hello Games applied the formula to NMS to further it's future application in other projects.

[Rimeskeem]

Honestly, maybe Sony should just give the guy some of the games profit and call it equal. Give the guy a couple million dollars that way if the game is truly outstanding. Everyone wins.

[ritchi45]

All Sony are doing is publishing the physical PS4 release. Everything else is on Hello Games. But I see what you're going for.

[iceman06]

While that bit of money sounds good, it pales in comparison to the amount that could be reaped if they were able to license the tech. It sounds, to me, like Hello Games was able to get the superformula to work in a way that can be licensed and the Dutch company is interested in that. (long term money) In that scenario, Hello Games was able to pull off something that the originator of the formula couldn't, and they could have to pay for it.
Best case scenario: the issue is seen to be a non-issue and no patent infringement. Worst case: cease and desist order and the game is killed. Most likely scenario: they meet, share ideas, work out some compensation that the world might never know, and we get the game as intended and on time.

[rainslacker]

@ice

Depends on the implementation though. So they may not have to pay a thing. If NMS went above and beyond, or a completely different route to achieve what they did, they would still not have to worry about this patent, because the equation itself is not something they have to license.

If they used this companies implementation, they'll probably have to pay for that, or at the very least, release the code for the other company to be able to license, and likely not hold any claim to it in the future.

However, any implementation beyond that would still be the property of Hello Games for them to do with as they see fit...and likely it will be patented after the release of the game...although it's more customary to do it before. Maybe Hello Games didn't consider ever licensing it, or perhaps they haven't changed the implementation so can't, or maybe they just have no interest in patenting the application and prefer to keep it open. They can still hold claim to the copyright which can be extended to application to prevent others from patenting their work.

More realistically, if both cases are true, then working together would be more beneficial for both, and it would appear the dutch company is more interested in the application working, because I suppose they haven't been able to do that to the point of being commercially viable, than making problems for Hello Games.

[Gh05t]

why would he stop it. He's already said he wants hello games to license it, the more money they make the more money he'd get, this can all be handled post release.

[DJ]

The patent holder wants a cut of sales for a simple math equation that was previously published in a research paper.

[5p4c3d]

no mention in this article that the Dutch company went bankrupt last year or so.

"The next, crucial question is, does Hello Games have to license the superformula in the first place? Here there seems to be a dispute, with some claiming yes, it does, and others saying no, it doesn't, because you can't patent the application of an equation"

i think this is the most telling line in the article

[rainslacker]

Company still exists, and I suppose still owns the patent. Going bankrupt does not mean a company ceases to exist, just alleviates their debt, and sometimes requires the selling of assets....and sometimes can cause them to close down. Apparently they "relaunched" as a new company or something like that, although details aren't clear to me.

If someone owns the patent, regardless of it's merit to be patented, then they have right to how it's used. If it's not actually patentable, then other issues have to be dealt with, but as it stands, technically, it would have to be licensed if they used it in the same application that the patent lays out....which is really the only crucial question that remains unanswered, because this guy doesn't know, and Hello Games isn't saying.

[5p4c3d]

yes im aware that doesnt mean they cease to exist i just think its relevant because it shows they may be desperate for cash. Like you said the real question is weather or not the patent is even applicable.

[nitus10]

You can patent just about anything with the correctly written legalese which nobody can understand except patent lawers. What is even more galling is the patent lawyers probably don't understand the principles of the patent anyway.

Want to get an instant migraine? Try reading a scientific patent, assuming you have a scientific or technical background and are a Masochist. The legalese alone will make you want to rip your eyeballs out.

[Meltic]

From reddit posts, the game is already on the shelfs in some stores in the UK.

[alfcrippinjr]

the company who suing want to see the source code
as they are too working on a open world game like no mans sky

so they would know how to use the coding of no mans sky

there is such a thing called custom programming

[rainslacker]

They apparently have not been able to make a commercially viable product as of yet, so I'd imagine they'd be keen to see the source code. Given the nature of it all, it'd be sent to a 3rd party arbitor, and they would decide if it infringes enough for there to be a case. Companies can't just see the source code of a competing product on a suspicion. That would mean all they'd have to do is claim infringement, and possibly get all the resources they need to move ahead without having to do the work behind it.

Computer code itself is usually confidential information, and it's treated as such by the courts, because it's a major factor in a companies product. it's unfair to just let a competitor, either now or potentially later, to just see the code. In this case, Hello Games could have a viable product to license in the future, and the company that owns the patent shouldn't just get a free peek unless Hello Games deems it OK. They would be forced to comply with the courts though, but that doesn't mean the patent holder gets to see anything.

[PSN_ZeroOnyx]

Exactly, even if patent infringement is proven, Hello Games does not have to show their source code to the Dutch company. Merely pay royalties, maybe pay a licensing fee and call it a day. Source code can be viewed by a 3rd party arbitrator to decide if patent infringement has taken place.

[DualWielding]

this is not out yet how can it have fans?

[xtheblackparade]

Them annoying parasites. I'm gonna name the first bug-like aliens I encounter after that shitty little company.

[InMyOpinion]

F*kn "game" journalists telling us how we do or should feel. No reason at all to worry about this.

[iTechHeads]

I can't even sleep because of this.

[SharnOfTheDEAD]

"Sean Murray tweet "No Man's Sky doesn't actually use this "superformula" thing or infringe a patent. This is a non-story... everybody chill
(シ_ _)シ

Well someone's got egg on their face.