On Sony And PS4 DRM

Not surprisingly, anyone (especially me it seems) that voices any dissent against Microsoft's draconian DRM and surveillance practices is met by the storm of anti-Sony, pro-MS, advocates of anti-consumerism/privacy violations that make up the Microsoft fanboys of this site.

It is a true statement of fact that everyone has the right to do with their own money anything they choose, no matter how detrimental those decisions can be to the rest of us.

In defending Microsoft's practices, the defenders will constantly deflect off the main topic in favour of attacking what has happened in the Past regarding Sony. Situations that can't be changed. Then, the inevitable "when/if's" happen as it pertains to Sony's stance on DRM.

I've already provided links enough times that talk about Sony's plans for used games. Specifically that nothing is going to change from what they do now. But now I'm going to discuss the potential possibility, no matter how slim it may be, that Sony follow in the footsteps of Apple and Microsoft and decide to chuck out consumer rights in favour of catering to publisher pressure and greed.

Let me make this 100% clear. Bookmark this blog post if you have to to use it against me in the future if I don't do as I say. The second, the very second, that Sony announce the usage of the same, or similar, type of DRM that Microsoft is using with the Xbox One for used games, I will post a blog here raging about it against them. That is a guaranteed promise. I don't give a damn if I lost all of my bubbles for doing so, you will see me against Sony everywhere if they use the same system as MS.

When you buy a game in physical form, you should be able to lend that game to a friend and they should be able to play that game without needing to use your profile (which two people can't use at the same time) or having to pay full price for that game to play it on their own profile. You don't see such restrictions placed on cars now do you? There isn't a system put in place that says you can't drive your friends car unless you use their license is there? Of course not.

Sony uses online passes and were among the pioneers of the system. Another statement I want to make clear. Online passes are just as wrong. The difference though is that if you don't pay the $10 for the pass, you can still play the entire single player campaign. For people who only care about online aspects, online passes are terrible and, yes, a violation of consumer rights. No one should be punished for buying a used product at a discounted price. The video game industry is the only industry where I have seen content creators in such an immense uproar over being paid extra money for absolutely no extra work. It's ridiculous.

There are unsubstantiated rumours from unnamed sources claiming that the PS4 will have used games DRM. Immediately, that is wrong. There isn't a single law anywhere that states that content creators have the right to gouge people and punish them for buying their product used. In fact, there are laws AGAINST such things. But what good are laws if the majority don't give a damn about their own rights?

We live in a world where more of our rights are taken away every single day. Though there are limits as to what we can do with what we own (we can't, for example, take credit for someone else's work), there should never be a limit on sharing. Most of us in the world are brought up being taught to share. That it is a good thing to do, that it fosters friendships and goodwill. If Sony joins Microsoft in punishing people for wanting to do what we've been raised believing is a good thing to do, then they are just as wrong as Microsoft and deserve just as much backlash. Probably even more considering how many have banded together to tell Sony that we don't want what Microsoft is doing.

I encourage everyone to shout out in rage against Sony if they try and pull the same B.S. as Microsoft. Publishers and developers can whine all they want to about used games, but let's see how they like it when no one buys their games new because they don't want to have to give up a lot just to play a game.

[darthv72]

I cant say for sure if there will ever by a global boycott in the sense that you think because each person holds a different level of self worth.

There will always be those who are self centered and will do what is needed to satisfy their own interests. including supporting a platform that is known to restrict the users ability to trade games among their friends or sell them 2nd hand. to them, they will just keep the games themselves and tell their friends to get their own if they want to play.

In the past 30+ years we have seen many things change in this industry. Some for the better, others not so much. But i do feel it is the good, legal and honest people that get screwed over by those who arent so good, legal or honest. thanks to them, we get new forms of security and restrictions all done in the name of protection on the part of the company and their vested interests.

Overall i agree that what these companies do are questionable but to many, unless it directly infringes on them, they wont have a care in the world. Its convincing them that these companies are doing them wrong....that's the hard part because many just dont understand.

[DragonKnight]

Well, gamers rarely ever unite on anything no matter how much of a stink we make about things online. That's a definite shame too because we are just as guilty of apathy as any casual person who doesn't look into things the way we do. I mean, look at Call of Duty for example. How many sites across the internet complain about how it's always the same game, and yet across multiple platforms it's one of the highest selling games released? Why buy it if you think it never changes? It's the "social" mentality. Gamers will complain, but if their friends all buy it then they will to.

I find that the biggest problem are the uninformed being used as justification to screw over the informed. Many people here know what's up, but then you get an article that says "Xbox One most wanted console on Amazon" and you just know that that will be used to justify any DRM MS wants to push out in the same way EA used SimCity to justify always-online DRM.

We sit here and say "no, we don't want that" and offer many reasons why. EA says "too bad, ____ million users bought it so obviously it works." And what are we to actually do about it? We're left with the only option of not buying future games from them, but that limits our options. Who's to say that eventually we won't have ANY options?

Every new generation brings something worse to act as a trojan horse. Makes me wish for the good ol' days of the SNES again.

[dedicatedtogamers]

If Sony goes a similar DRM route, I'll simply buy a Wii-U and do PC, Wii-U, 3DS, and Vita for the 8th gen. I have full confidence that those four will provide more than enough games, but I'd be happy to add a PS4 to the list if it doesn't restrict my gaming habits.

[pixelsword]

Yep.

No game is worth going into a system like DRM.

If Sony wants to play that game, I'll simply not get a PS4; I can skip a gen and stay with my PC.

I've done it before.

The Steambox is always an option; so is the Wii U.

If push comes to shove, I'll get an X1 maybe after it's been successfully hacked.

Same goes for the PS4 if need be.

I'll never knowingly support a product that limits me.

And thanks to Chokhmah (is she on N4G?) for giving me 3 PS3 games and showed me why DRM is doomed to fail the games and franchises they are supposed to "protect".

[Software_Lover]

............ Why not just discuss this with the guy in your "other blog". Dont make a new blog, just debate him. He did bring up some serious questions.

The bottom line for me is........ There is no definite answer from Microsoft either on the issue. You can point to all the lines spoken by Harrison and the lot that you want, but nothing is in stone yet. We really will not find out until the consoles release. They can say what they want but until it's put into action, its just blogs and opinions.

Sony didn't have to answer any questions after their reveal to the level that Microsoft did. The powers that be left everything in the air. Were they more definitive than the Microsoft powers that be, HELL YES, but they both left a sour taste in my mouth looking at it from a PC gamer unbiased perspective.

Microsoft better answer some questions and fast or the media is gonna kill them, and we know how many people in the world are sheep of the media, whether wrong or right.

Finally, like I always say, if someone wants to just play Halo, Forza, or..... Ryse (lol), who are you or I to stop them? It's their hobby. If someone wants to play Killzone, GT, or THE last Guardian (lol) who are you or I to stop them?

I agree with your stance. But there are far more important issues concerning rights taken away if we get out of the gaming microscope. Gaming, in itself, is an entertainment meant to "keep people busy" from the real problems with the world and the corrupt government. Its just the Roman Coliseum on a smaller scale.

[DragonKnight]

"Why not just discuss this with the guy in your "other blog". Dont make a new blog, just debate him. He did bring up some serious questions."

Well, ran out of bubbles for one. Two, it would be off topic because this blog is about Sony mostly.

"There is no definite answer from Microsoft either on the issue. You can point to all the lines spoken by Harrison and the lot that you want, but nothing is in stone yet. We really will not find out until the consoles release. They can say what they want but until it's put into action, its just blogs and opinions."

Although positions can be changed at any point, you can't say there is nothing definitive yet. I mean, MS could implement this system and then 4 years from now change it and you could say "see, told you there was nothing definitive." An MS VP spoke about the system, so that's a good indicator of where MS wants to go. Also, it's very difficult to believe that MS will change their mind when the uninformed masses don't care and publishers like EA are so obviously exerting pressure. It's not an impossibility, but it's highly unlikely.

"Sony didn't have to answer any questions after their reveal to the level that Microsoft did. The powers that be left everything in the air. Were they more definitive than the Microsoft powers that be, HELL YES, but they both left a sour taste in my mouth looking at it from a PC gamer unbiased perspective."

Thing is though, Sony did provide answers. People have changed the context of those answers to fit what MS is doing, but multiple sources strongly indicate that nothing for Sony has changed than what exists now in the form of online passes. There's also the Vita to consider, which Sony insists will have heavy integration with the PS4, and it has no real used games DRM. There's also no online requirement for the PS4, making it difficult to implement the kind of "solution" MS has since the Xbox One does have an online requirement. I also find it interesting that no one questions the cloud aspects of the Xbox One considering that that can be a trojan for always-online becoming far more prevalent in the Xbox One than just a 24 hour check.

"Microsoft better answer some questions and fast or the media is gonna kill them, and we know how many people in the world are sheep of the media, whether wrong or right."

True.

"Finally, like I always say, if someone wants to just play Halo, Forza, or..... Ryse (lol), who are you or I to stop them? It's their hobby. If someone wants to play Killzone, GT, or THE last Guardian (lol) who are you or I to stop them?"

Not trying to stop them. I'm trying to stop the publishers from making gaming worse for me and other informed gamers simply because the uninformed majority and the blind defenders don't care that they are being screwed over. Eventually, the apathetic attitude will severely limit the options of people who care about petty things like rights.

"I agree with your stance. But there are far more important issues concerning rights taken away if we get out of the gaming microscope. Gaming, in itself, is an entertainment meant to "keep people busy" from the real problems with the world and the corrupt government. Its just the Roman Coliseum on a smaller scale."

Completely agreed.

[Software_Lover]

I hate the bubble system, but I understand the reasoning behind it.

I still hate it though.

[turnerdc]

What I find completely hilarious about many of the people claiming to fight for "consumer rights" is when the Xbox One was confirmed to have DRM all they did was spout hate, ridiculing Microsoft and positioning Sony as the "champion" of the gaming crowd. Now that it's seeming more and more likely that the PS4 will have DRM they're taking to Twitter, Youtube, and other internet services to "plead" and reach an "understanding" with Sony. Mind you it's not EVERYONE, but many people are shrouding their fanboyism and brand loyalty with the guise of being "freedom fighters" fighting for "consumer rights" and needless to say it's pretty easy to see the hypocrisy in the situation.

[DragonKnight]

The thing about Sony is that there is already information about what they are going to do everywhere. It's literally everywhere. But when Microsoft came out with their "solution" suddenly the context changed and everyone thinks Sony was just as vague about it when they weren't. The Twitter movement was because of that a$$hat Geoff Keighley and I wouldn't be surprised if he made up the B.S. just to start stuff so he could talk about it. I mean, "my unnamed source said that the PS4 is going to have DRM."

That is the most open ended statement to make. If he had a source that had knowledge of such a thing, said source could be more specific. Most of the people involved in the Twitter movement are doing it to remind Sony what we games DO support and what we DO NOT support. That's why stuff like "no region locking" is included there as well. There's an Xbox movement too.

[turnerdc]

That's my point. Their stance is not as clear as Microsoft's (although I'm pretty sure they will have some form as DRM) yet now we have people Tweeting celebs, setting up websites, emailing publishers, emailing awareness groups, making Youtube videos, etc all under the banner of PS4noDRM. All that and they claim they're fighting for consumer rights yet many did nothing when the Xbox was pretty much confirmed to have DRM. These people are not fighting for consumer rights...they just don't want THEIR console to have DRM and could actually care less if the Xbox has it. It really shows how deep and misguided people are in regards to their "loyalty" over a single brand. It's alright to be a fan of one console but I think it's very wrong to claim something noble when it's really just selfish motivation.

[DragonKnight]

"Their stance is not as clear as Microsoft's"

I just finished telling you that it is. Their stance is everywhere. Even the sites that asked Sony flat out about used games said "looks like online passes are continuing." Eurogamer and ArsTechnica did the most extensive interviews. I'm sure you've seen the links. Then there's the Vita. To believe Sony, the Vita is going to be heavily integrated with the PS4. The Vita doesn't have used games DRM. Then there's the "no mandatory internet connection" that Sony insists upon with the PS4, which negates the primary authentication method needed to use such DRM. Sony's stance is very clear. Geoff Keighley just decided to stir up B.S.

And again, there is an Xbox movement on twitter as well. It's just not as big because Microsoft already announced their DRM and no one really thinks they'll change their mind. The PS4 movement is a restatement of what we don't want to see, despite the fact that the knowledge is already out there for everyone to find.

[turnerdc]

I'll agree to disagree. I've seen the interviews and I can't grab a definite answer from them. Until Sony comes out and says "You can play used games and also rent games without an additional fee" then I'm inclined to believe the issue is still not resolved. Mind you I'm not saying that they will have some form of DRM...I'm just saying that we can't tell just yet.

[DragonKnight]

The issue of a fee was always because of Microsoft though. Sony never brought up anything about a fee, nor did anyone who asked them about used games, because before MS' conference that wasn't a consideration anyone was thinking of.

[turnerdc]

Well let's hope they say something sooner than later then. With all this attention (Twitter, etc) they should notice there's a great deal of importance surrounding this subject. The longer they stay quiet, the more time people have to doubt.

[DragonKnight]

That I agree with. Problem is, no one from MS or Sony are going to say anything until E3. :/

[rainslacker]

I can agree and disagree with you on this. I asked right away, why wasn't this twitter campaign done for MS instead(or in addition) of Sony, since MS is confirmed to have a policy for it.

However, the person that started this was an PS fan, and their concern was that this could be something that Sony would do, and the actual policies could steamroll into something bigger.

There was nothing stopping Xbox fans from doing the same thing that this guy started. There is nothing stopping them now. There is nothing stopping people from starting a twitter campaign to target the publishers.

For those of us who like Sony, we don't want this on their system. We also don't want it on the other systems.

Your argument seems to be based on a broad generalization, and that's ok, because we all do it. But the intent of the campaign was more to push the issue into the limelight. This campaign no doubt got both Sony and MS attention, because they will be direct competitors. That is exactly the outcome this kind of campaign should achieve. It forces us to be heard, and hopefully it affects change.

If most of the comments I've seen lately were based on console preference, then I believe that your argument could hold more weight. However, outside of the normal trolls on the Sony side, this seems to be something beyond console preference. Even on the Xbox side it isn't about console preference, and the trolls who are trying to defend these practices aren't really adding anything worthwhile to the conversation. They're doing exactly what dragon described in his blog, they're deflecting, while ignoring the actual topic.

[jessupj]

I guess when they say 'consumer rights' they mean 'consumer rights for sony fans'. I personally have absolutely no intension of buying an Xbone and this was before the conference. Your kneejerk reaction is most liekly to brand me a fanboy, but I'm just a gamer, I go to where the games are and to the company that's willing to give me those games for a fair price without bending me over.

Normally, even if something doesn't affect me personally I would still fight for and support the people that it doesn't affect. The MS crowd are a different story though. They willingly bend over for a company that clearly has zero passion for gaming. They spend more on advertising than actual development. They waste money on timed exclusives and timed DLC. They don't take risks. They haven't put out a single new ip in God knows how long. They charge for live, which is free everywhere else.

Why should I defend these people that happily support a company that does all this? I could go on, but I suspect you're going to brush all this off. Or instead of addressing anything I said you'll just say "well sony isn't perfect". And I'll agree, sony is far from perfect but at least they're bringing out games.

[HyperBear]

@DragonKnight: I think you should run for President, or get into politics some how, you'd have my vote :D

OT: I think the fact that you "think" you know everything about the PS4 and what Sony has on their agenda by providing numerous links to interviews and sources from Feb. 21 (Day after PS4 reveal) is what's a tad bit troubling. Unless, you personally, work for Sony or are apart of Sony Computer Entertainment, then you, nor I, nor anyone else on N4G or any other gaming site for that matter, can admittedly come out and say "Sony will not block used games" or "Sony already said No to Always-Online".

The fact of the matter is, NOBODY, except for Sony, knows what's going to happen and how the PS4 will function once released. There's no official FAQ page yet for PS4, and until they come out and officially answer certain questions pertaining to these rumors/restrictions (whether they will at E3 or in an interview shortly thereafter) all we can do is guess, but we can't be 100% absolute sure Sony will or will not do any of these ideas.

Not to mention that a lot can happen in the span of 3.5 months since their PS4 reveal. Some of it could be good progress and some of it could be tailored to things like implementing a used-game fee system/online passes, etc. I personally think that Sony will be smart enough not to implement these restrictions that Microsoft are currently integrating right now, but who knows. Anything and Everything can change very quickly...

*Also, people may see that this is your 3rd blog post pertaining towards Xbox One within the span of a week, so maybe they don't agree with you because your too focused on this subject right now. I'd say wait until E3 is over and write a similarity blog between Xbox One and PS4, cause then we'll have something new to comment about and maybe other members will have different opinions on certain things*

[ZombieNinjaPanda]

Why are blogs like this accepted? So it's acceptable for me now to write blogs about PS fanboys? This should be reported, along with every other one that is talking about fanboys and nothing else.