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Sony: Kinect technological problems are 'quite big'

"We're not necessarily against Kinect or against depth cameras, it's just we feel like Move has more applicability across more genres so it fits better with what we try to do," Sony Computer Entertainment software engineer Anton Mikhailov told VideoGamer.com.

"Also I think the tech is a bit, not so much immature, but not quite up to spec in what we think. Like the PlayStation Eye camera runs at 60 frames per second so it can track you very quickly whereas the Kinect and other depth camera are only 30 frames per second. So they are more suited for slower motions. Dancing is still kind of okay and then the yoga stuff that they were doing, it fits that very well, whereas if you want to do quick punches it's harder to do that just because you can't see the player as quickly. And there's also more latency, things like that. So you know, it's not a particularly sexy result, it's just mostly technological problems."

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swat2609d ago (Edited 2609d ago )

some one is jealous

deadreckoning6662609d ago (Edited 2609d ago )

Why does Sony care? Kinect isn't their problem. Its pretty obvious that Move's accuracy means that more genres of games can be applied to it...but that didn't stop me from enjoying Kinect at my local Bestbuy. Both are awesome in their own ways...don't understand the need to put the other down.

"They are asking them because MS don't respond. A lot of sites ask these guys question about the technology because they have used it before."

Yep, glad you caught on to that. Now to make my point.

I'm not referring to you forcefullpower, just speaking in general terms. Sony was ASKED to state what they thought the problems with Kinect were. So Sony simply answered. No problem there right? Okay..so, why did PS3 diehards get mad at Gabe Newell when he was ASKED to give his opinion on the PS3 way back when?

Why do they also get mad at Aaron Greenburg when he is ASKED to give his opinion on Sony and the PS3?

Do you see where I'm getting at? Its one big wave of hypocrisy on this site. Unless the opinion given is pro-Sony, the majority of this site has no problem with it. I know alot of my argument is off-topic..I just wanted to make that point.

forcefullpower2609d ago (Edited 2609d ago )

They are asking them because MS don't respond. A lot of sites ask these guys question about the technology because they have used it before.

All i hear from any MS Rep or Kudo about the tech the best you get is "Its going to be fun you are the controller". As lot of sites want to know more about how it works and if it has limitations and can it work with more hardcore games.

You may not like it that its Sony Engineers saying it but i doubt you will here MS saying anything negative about it. To be honest these guys are just saying what i am thinking

@Dead

I agree with you that they should not answer questions about kinect tech anymore as most sites are using it to make controversial headlines.

About Gabe he did in essence call the PS3 a piece of shit. I was annoyed as Gabe myself because a lot of what he said unfounded rubbish which he in the end had to turn cheek and apologize for. I am a big PC gamer so i don't hate Gabe as steam does a lot of great things.

Greenburg just spews crap all the time. I wouldn't want him as a PR representative for any product i liked.

r1sh122609d ago

Ok seriosuly..
We have had a week of the same story, its getting boring.
N4G stop allowing the same story written in different ways get posted..
I wanna hear about other news,

AAACE52609d ago (Edited 2609d ago )

As long as it plays the games they put out... I don't see the problem! Nothing is perfect!

I went to Best Buy on Black Friday to see what was on sale. Stopped and got a new phone while kids went to play Kinect and Move. Kids came back talking about how much fun they had! Went to go check them out myself... Kinect looked OK, I didn't try it, but I watched. Didn't feel like making an ass out of myself at that time! Move had 2 controllers... neither were working, so I didn't get a chance to play it!

The funny thing is, I used to joke about the Move controller looking like something a 6 year old girl would be waiving around saying she's a fairy princess! And then a girl about that age came up with her parents and started waiving it around! I couldn't hold my laughter in!

No Offense, but it was funny to me!

MisterAV2609d ago

but this engineer was extremely calm, it didn't said "kinect is **** buy move" but explained in a good way. I don't think gabe and aaron were respectful like him

dragonelite2609d ago

@Forcefullpower

If those site want to really know how kinect work and what the implementation can be just use good dam google.
Search the kinecthack youtube channel or just search the patent and Faq of kinect. What do you think a ms engineer is going to talk bad about kinect and good about move and vice versa for a sony engineer.

Motion2609d ago

I finally saw a Kinect being demoed @ Best Buy this past weekend. I was actually surprised at how much lag there was. I don't know if they guy playing could tell, but from watching it was quite obvious.

Active Reload2609d ago

Sony, make the Eyetoy a controller free interface for the PS3 UI. I mean, thats the only reason at the moment, I'm interested in Kinect.

THILLREBORN2609d ago

Actually your missing the point, there is a way to be tact full with your response. In both cases you mentioned with Gabe and Aaron not only did they respond negatively which is fine but it's the manner and fashion of the response that caused the uproar. Having an opinion is fine but as a representative for your company means you need to act with more tact...acting like a fan boy shows a lack of class on both Gabe and Aaron. That’s all I'm saying.

Lightsaber2609d ago

breaking news $ony trashing talking.

They can talk all the trash they want but the fact is kinect works perfectly. Sure there are things that could be better but MS will improve it with software updates

Biggest2609d ago

It's strange that people are lumping Greenburg, who is paid to talk trash, with Anton, who is paid to develop motion gaming peripherals. I don't see where Anton trashed anything here. He spoke of the technical limitations. He didn't lie. He didn't mistakenly say the wrong thing. He repeated the technical specs and compared them to other comparable technical specs.

People (most of the people defending Kinect and 360 fanboys from the Sony fanboys) were in the GT5 articles talking about the uncommon FPS dips (60>57) as if they destroyed gameplay. Now Anton repeats (not states, repeats) that the Kinect has a 30FPS capture speed, which is half of the PS Eye capture speed. That makes the Kinect more suited for slow, deliberate movements. He isn't bashing Kinect. He is telling you what you already know. 30FPS is slower than 60FPS. Don't be sad about that. If you love Kinect, love it. Just like every other everything in world history. . . There are limitations.

Highlife2609d ago

You are enjoying it at best buy why not at home not good enough to buy???

KageMonkey2609d ago

The difference being that Gabe's response was his opinion stated as fact.

Anton's response is not an opinion. It is an absolutely logical response from an engineer's perspective on the limitations of a particular system.

Microsoft's entire business is built upon deceptive marketing to mislead consumers to purchase old, inferior and sometimes faulty products. They simply cannot afford to let their engineers speak their minds.

That is why you will never see Microsoft let engineers talk about their systems: Microsoft engineers KNEW about the RROD and limitations of Kinect (the exact limitations that Anton told you about), and letting the Microsoft engineers tell the public about Microsoft's faulty and inferior technology would bankrupt the company.

ChrisW2609d ago (Edited 2609d ago )

deadreckoning666,

Don't be such a n00b about it. N4G is all about hypocrisy... If you aren't two-faced on this site, you aren't having enough fun!

jetlian2609d ago

because it directly effects them. If kinect truly takes off what will sony do to counter?! Move has only shown its just like wii.

And to all the haters out there if PSEYE can do everything kinect can why isn't Sony saying why buy 150 dollar kinect when you can get PSEYE for 30?!!

Heartnet2609d ago

Lets face it sony arnt going to be saying anything nice about it lol if they are asked they are bound to insult it as it makes their competetion look bad and thefor increasing the likeleness of their product

+ Show (12) more repliesLast reply 2609d ago
Boody-Bandit2609d ago ShowReplies(12)
Inside_out2609d ago

Poor Sony, first they make a gimped PS3 system, loose BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars and now they look dumb for passing on a far superior game add on and tech in Kinect.

Sony is just trying to calm the investors fears...it's not working. 360 has been outselling PS3 and everyone else for months. Sony is in panic mode and is trying to divert attention from the poor performance of it's system and games...RIP Sony.

At least Sony is outselling 360 in countries that don't matter and don't spend much money on gaming...O_o

strickers2609d ago

Wow,you know almost nothing,do you?You need to do a little light reading and get your facts straight.
By the way,the world is round.
Try reading some official figures and looking at dates,put the 2 together and you get how fast a product sells.

Scotland-The-Brave2609d ago

@cez
ive just taken about 20 minutes reading through your previous comments and boy are they the funniest i have read in my life. "AW beats every ps3 exclusive in the graphics department" looooool.

Silver3602609d ago (Edited 2609d ago )

This guy is talking out his butt, not saying he is wrong about the camera. I am saying he doesn't know anything about the software behind Kinect. It took three PhD's to help develop the predictive software tracking of Kinect to overcome the frame rate issue. When he said look at the hacked videos on you-tube that is just what the camera can do, Once again Kinect software is not hacked only the open usb port on the camera that was never secured. If you want to know what the software can do read this article:

http://www.wired.co.uk/maga...

small excerpt: shows they invented software behind Kinect.

The answer, by sheer chance, came from the PhD research of Jamie Shotton, a computer-vision researcher in Blake's department who was fresh out of grad school. Shotton had shown how to train a computer to differentiate cows, grass or an aircraft in a countryside photograph by studying it pixel by pixel. He had taught the system to recognise 21 categories of object.

By chance, Kipman had come across one of Shotton's earlier papers about tracking hands. "It was really well written, and the tone was optimistic," Kipman recalls. "I'm like, 'We've got to go talk to this guy!' Not long after we found out he worked for Microsoft." The call from Redmond came on August 18 2008. Could Shotton help in tracking a body in real time? He discussed the challenge with Fitzgibbon. "My immediate reaction," Fitzgibbon says, "was, 'No you can't.'" Kipman's team put their Scotch-taped hardware into a bag, packed a couple of changes of clothes, and flew to Cambridge. They had hacked together a video that took advantage of the camera sensor's 3D capabilities.

The video showed a man's skeleton being tracked in the foreground; in the background, it showed what the depth camera was seeing. Once the system had recognized the man's body shape, it snapped on to his skeleton; on screen you could see an outline of his movements as he danced. They called this demonstration the "Bones" video.

strickers2609d ago

I'm sorry but you are talking crap,the tech stats do not lie to anyone with a brain.
This guy knows his stuff.Why don't you check with Harmonix if they are following the skeletal pattern or silhouette tracking?
Some people still believe that fingers can be tracked on Kinect.Some advanced biometric guessing software can be fine for some apps
,but for precision gaming it will not match it's rivals hardware solutions.
That's just common sense.

Silver3602609d ago

The article was not about the move it was about his take on infrared depth sensing camera and the frame rate issues. MS overcomes these issues by having that highly sophisticated predictive software of which this man knows nothing as it is MS property

FOXDIE2609d ago (Edited 2609d ago )

Swat, someone is an incompetent A-hole!

ChrisW2609d ago (Edited 2609d ago )

Can't figure out why everyone's so excited...

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 2609d ago
kataloni102609d ago

its not your problem sony

SilverSlug2609d ago

They just answered a question, doubt they are 'worried' or assume its their issue.

raztad2609d ago (Edited 2609d ago )

SilverSlug is right, and besides this is a tech Sony has been researching for many years, they have a say.

Anon19742609d ago

It's not Sony that answered here. There were just talking to one guy, a software engineer who works for Sony. They asked his opinion and he gave it. It's not like this was an official press release, or that there's one guy out there named "Sony" who speaks for the entire company.

sarshelyam2609d ago

Well, considering Anton developed the Move tech along side Marks, his word on the matter IS Sony's word.

eliasg2609d ago

Kinect is an amazing piece of Hardware and someone is jealous about it!!!

poopoojames2609d ago

kinect is the reason that I'm still playing video games

Dnied2609d ago (Edited 2609d ago )

wtf? /s?

raztad2609d ago

It has got to be sarcasm

Greek God2609d ago

LMAO
Bubbles my stomach hurts

Moentjers2609d ago

@ratmcphee
I feel so sorry for you.

AntBoogy902609d ago

You two must be joking . . the technology is cool . . the device is retarded. Since the device is retarded, you two are retarded.

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vhero2609d ago

Wow somebody who actually knows what he is talking about in terms of tech is just giving some facts when asked a series of questions and he's jealous.. You fanboys need to get out more.

knowledge4lfe2609d ago

wait. how is jealous? the guy asked a question and the sony guy answered in a RESPECTFUL AND KNOWLEGeABLE way. what was so bad about it? also i have kinect. while its pretty cool, its made for a very tiny set of genres. and its not someone you're gonna play by yourself all the time. also you need a lot of freaking space.

KageMonkey2609d ago

If you think Kinect is amazing, then you have no clue how technology works and is simply a sheep that has been misled by another one of Microsoft's deceptive marketing campaigns.

Functionally, Kinect is no different than an EyeToy. How is it an amazing piece of hardware when it was available 10 years ago?

jetlian2609d ago

So wheres sony counter? pseye should be on oprah and ellen talking about how kinect is over priced and pseye is only 30 dollars and you get all the same stuff.

Not gonna happen because eyetoys aren't on the level of kinect and sony knows it

strickers2609d ago

It's a bunch of cheap,off the shelf components and low end ones at that.The software is advanced but the hardware has many limitations.You just lack the knowledge to understand it.
You probably think it runs on witchcraft.

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ddelella2609d ago

Sony always claims 60FPS on everything and it never runs that speed in reality. Besides, how well did the EyeToy do? That's right be jealous that Kinects are flying off shelves. I do think people are stupid though since they are buying them for $200 when you can get them plenty of place for retail of $149. The Move is still limited to a controller movement and poses the possibility of accidentally throwing the controller and breaking something. No controller, nothing to break...win!

8-bit2609d ago (Edited 2609d ago )

I don't see why people are even thinking of siding with MS on this one.. I am a gamer and I play games.. Games like LBP2, MAG, Socom, Killzone 3, inFamous 2, Heavy Rain, Resident Evil 5, Sorcery and so on are games that Move plays better with in some cases than a standard controller.

Kinect is fun, gimmicky and the enjoyment fades as each game starts to blur together into one game type with limited functions. Kinect's tech works when the games are simplistic and give you little control or input options but it's very limited. Why can't people see past the fact that they are supporting a console preference over actual games?

BabyTownFrolics2609d ago

not kinect fail

also if a game asks you to jump and you dont have the ceiling room you can just start the jump motion but not leave the ground, kinect will register it as a jump.

Hands Up For Games2609d ago

So 8 Bit, what Kinect titles have you played?

Ive had a shot of Dance Central and Adventures at a friends house the last 2 weekends and I had a blast with them both. This doesnt make me an MS Fanboy or a casual noob, just someone who likes to have Fun with my favourite hobby and who likes to mix it up a bit.

Does this make me a bad person :( ?

darkeva932609d ago

@BabyTownFrolics That's not the point. ddelella said, "No controller, nothing to break...win!" I'm just pointing out the fact that even though there's no controller, you can still break something.

BabyTownFrolics2609d ago

i get it now, your not really trying to address any issues your just trolling, thanks that was not clear to me.

again, what broke was the ceiling fan because the guy in the video is an idiot, but go ahead blame kinect.

its not like I could find a similar video about move or the wii.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

so obviously those instances are the wii and moves fault not the users.

troll on

darkeva932609d ago

@BabyTownFrolics I didn't say anything about the Kinect hardware being bad. Controller or no controller, accidents still happen. Go ahead and call me a troll all you want.

antz11042609d ago

@ 8-bit,

Lol, I was waiting for someone to drop the ps3 exclusive list. I feel like every article there's one guy that'll do it, even if the articles about something as random as how there aren't enough hamburger representations in games today.

Thanks man, just won $10 bucks on an office bet!

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Kurisu2609d ago

It only does wrist straps.

kneelb4zod2609d ago (Edited 2609d ago )

@ ddelella You haven't been following the ps move because it runs at a minimum 60 fps and how is the move limited to a controller it's suppose to be complementary not detracting . Ironically there was a report I think from kotaku stating a person with kinect got in to a accident none from ps move yet.

Subclavian2609d ago

all I know is that am enjoying my kinect, I didnt like my move !

Jrome2609d ago

You could say he.....MOVED ON :o

jneul2609d ago

lol you never owned a move

redsquad2609d ago

Yeah, you didn't enjoy the MOVE because you need a PS3 to plug it into...

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 2609d ago