Gears of War 3 Dedicated Servers Report Shot Down By Epic Games

Nick from Lazygamer has been speaking to Epic about the latest rumour and unfortunately has this to say

"The news has been flying around the internet thanks to Kombo.com who reported that Mark Rein had confirmed dedicated servers for Gears of War 3.

As I had my own concerns about the effect that dedicated servers would have on the newly announced Xbox Live regions, I contacted Epic Games to see if they would be supporting regions such as ours.

Much to my surprise, I received an email from an Epic Games Community Support Specialist shortly thereafter, denying that the report was correct."

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Cue the hypocrites saying P2P was better anyways..

[Joule]

So the lagging will continue?

(sigh)

[-Alpha]

I have a couple questions-- Correct me if I'm wrong but don't dedicated servers lag too?

I am thinking of Bad Company 2 where EA screwed up so bad that you can't play a proper game anymore.

Also, doesn't Halo purposely run on P2P for its matchmaking? And doesn't Halo (along with UC2) use matchmaking over dedicated servers for some specific reason? I'm just wondering what the major differences are... can you not have a matchmaking system if you have dedicated servers?

And P2P doesn't necessarily mean lag, does it? It's about networking isn't it? Hasn't that been the problem with Gears? Poor networking, as opposed to the kind of server?

I don't mind the occasional bad host, so long as the system picks a new one and such, but I'm just wondering... I haven't minded P2P this generation... CoD4, MW2, and Halo has P2P, but it hasn't been THAT bad for me. Dedicated servers are of course even better (with the current situation of BC2 showing the downside). But I'm not sure if P2P generally equals laggy games. I certainly know that there are situations in dedicated servers. For example, I found out there is an issue in MAG regarding lag that this guy explained:

http://forums.mag.com/t5/MA...

And before u start bashing me for denouncing the servers in MAG, I'm not saying MAG has unsustainable lag, just pointing out that lag doesn't seem to be associated solely with P2P, and that Gears, to my knowledge, had networking issues rather than suffering from being P2P.

@Disagrees

I'm just trying to understand how it works, forgive me for not insta-bashing Gears. All I'm saying is that there are games with P2P and dedicated servers, yet I've experienced lag in both (though definitely more with P2P). Regarding Gears, I had always thought it was an issue of poor networking.

[pixelsword]

Dedicated servers *can* lag, just like p2p servers can *not* lag... it happens, but not so much so that any expert will conclude that p2p is on equal footing with dedicated servers.

Even if/when you find a good server there's still host advantage and people playing at the mercy and the length of the host.

It reminds me of playing AVP on the PC a few years back.

[blue7xx7]

@Alpha-Male22 Yes Dedicated Servers lag as well. It all comes down to each individuals Internet Connection. I have around 15mb connection and never lag on Xbox live.

I personally haven't ever encountered lag in Gears 2 but that is just me. I'm guessing a lot of people who play don't have that fast of an Internet connection to begin with.

[HammockGames]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

This was the top complaint on my wish list for Gears 3. Consider me stunned. They know everyone was pissed about the MP lag with Gears 2. I was, and I have a blazing fast internet connection.

And didn't they just recently announced they planned to "do right by all their fans" for Gears 3?

How in the hell would this be doing right?!

Edit: Alpha - I understand that. Words that I never want to hear again, though: "Host advantage"

My online gaming has always been noticeably superior on dedicated servers. That may just be me, and if so that's great - but this is a point of contention for me.

[-Alpha]

Thanks guys, appreciate the discussion.

@Pixel

Thanks for the info-- I'm definitely not saying P2P is on the same grounds as dedicated servers, but people are acting disappointed as if they expected dedicated servers to happen and as if that meant the end of lag.

@Blowstuffup

But you are assuming you NEED dedicated servers to "fix up" the lag.

As said above, lag DOES exist in dedicated servers, and lag will always exist. I don't think Epic intends to remove lag entirely (because that's impossible), but I assume they will at least manage the networking properly enough so that you can have smooth games commonly.

I don't know why people were expecting dedicated servers if you clearly don't NEED dedicated servers to iron out lag issues.

UC2 for example runs on P2P (to my knowledge at least), and I experience lag, but not enough that it frustrates the overall experience. I'm pretty sure this is what Epic will attempt to do.

@Garnett

I don't really lag on MW2 either (I mean, there are moments, but overall it's smooth), but I think there is something wrong with hit detection in that game. Sometimes bullets and knives wont really a touch a player but they count as kills (especially in the Game Winning Kill-Cams). That could be lag.

I KNOW that that kind of lag exists with dedicated servers (like with the MAG knifing issue I linked above, and in other games I've played, BC2 lag is just terrible at the moment).

[Garnett]

When i think of dedicated servers, i think of Bad Company 2, thats full of lag.

When i think of P2P servers, i think of MW2, which has NO lag (at least on 360).

Dedicated servers often lag when too many people are on them, the company can cut the games online off, ect..

[halojunkie]

uc2 neverlagged on me. alpha

so i got a dissagree for it not lagging on me? unbelievable.

[maddhatter123]

well when i think dedicated servers i think kz2 32 players no lag, r1 40 players no lag, r2 60 players zero lag and mag 256 players no lag. with p2p you can't even have a 5v5 match in gears 2. you guys need to stop making up bs we all know that dedicated servers are better don't play dumb just because gears 3 doesn't have them. the more you lie to yourself the more of a reason they don't have to fix anything because they know you clowns will take anything. just look at rrod for 4 years you lied about it not being a prolem and nothing got fixed someone threatens to sue and there were new models in weeks. grow a back bone 360 fanboys.

@alpha
you see that is you guys problem you always make up excuses yes they have lag but it isn't anywhere near as much as gears it is basically non existent and they have far more players. there is no reason why mag lags less then gears 2 other then dedicated servers. gears has smaller maps less players and doesn't have many things going with the graphics it is as basic as a game can be yet still plays like crap. dedicated servers are better and that is a fact.

[SilverSlug]

I think lag really comes down to ping. My ping is bad and Uncharted 2 works the best for me out of all my games.

Server does help a ton, especially for guys with not optimal ping.

Server>P2P if the server is good.

[-Alpha]

@madhatter

Dude that's just not true. Of course those games claim they don't lag, but you are ignoring facts if you think that that is true. MAG lags. I even linked an issue above on the official MAG forums, why do you ignore that? BC2 lags. It's experienced so much lag that EA has begun taking surveys to see which areas are affected most.

The point is lag exists regardless. And I'm not trying to bash your favorite games or anything. The games with dedicated servers don't lag the same way P2P lag does, but I know that it does lag regardless. So to act as if no lag exists at all is nonsense. I'm just trying to clear up this notion that Gears receiving dedicated servers would somehow magically eliminate lag forever.

@HaloJunkie

Thanks, you reinforce my point. I'm saying that the lag isn't so bad that it's unplayable with P2P games and that dedicated servers are not prone to lag-free games.

[NoOoB101]

Dedicated servers do lag but to a lesser extent. You couldn't run MAG on a p2p network. MAG having 256 players would be too much for a "host".
P2P isn't bad though. P2P can run great with a smaller number of people..like Halo or U2. Unfortunately gears of war hasn't had much luck with p2p. maybe they could borrow matchmaking from bungie?
overall though Dedicated>>P2P.

[shoddy]

But for sure dedicate sever is way better than p2p. Dedicated server have best host Speed than cheapass p2p bandwith.
Pay to play online deserve dedicated server.

Look at MAG.

[RonXD]

Sorry to inform you. but the lag has actually been fixed on BC2

The issue was a server side patching error on the USA servers. The U.K. servers were actually lag free. The problem on the USA servers have been fixed though.

[-Alpha]

@madhatter

What's your point? I didn't disagree with ANY of that. But people are acting as if dedicated servers was the ONLY way to save Gears 3. P2P still works for small games like Gears, and P2P can manage games with little lag too, so it's not the end of the world and it's not like the lack of dedicated servers guarantees Gears 3 will have the same issues as Gears 2. That was my point. You admit lag exists in dedicated servers. And sorry, but it's not "non-existent". I again cite you the MAG thread-- lag issues can clearly exist. My point isn't to criticize dedicated servers but to show that P2P isn't improperly suitable for Gears 3. I most definitely agree a 5 on 5 game should run better than MAG, but like I said, the problem doesn't seem to be P2P but the poor network coding.

[hoops]

Dude. This is N4G.COM...
If you do not bash a Xbox360 game right away regardless...you will get diagrees galore.
This is the opposite of gamepro.com...
There you must bash all Sony games regardless.
lol

[hmmmm]

Dedicated servers lag is mainly determined by your internet connection and the location of the server. In games like L4D, the 360 uses valves dedicated servers, unfortunately for people outside the US, this means pretty much every game has bad lag, regardless, even if you want to play with your neighbour over xbox live.

P2P fixes the location issue, for the most part with the locality options most games have, (correct me if im wrong but this is an option MW2 didn't have until a few months ago which caused horrible lag in most matches.) but creates some more issues like host advantage etc.

[LCS_Furious_Dre]

Sir if you believe that gears of war 2 did not lag. Then you are a blind fellow

[HolyOrangeCows]

Wait a minute....haven't we been through this, like twice? Someone says "Gears 3 will have dedicated servers" and then EPIC comes along and says, "No"?

They had better do SOMETHING about the lag. I mean, come on, the first two were 8-10 players and it lagged badly.

[bioshock1221]

If you are lagging then stop being cheap and getting the basic internet connection that most people seem to get and get a internet connection that is at least 10mb or more

I always play Gears 2 and have only once encountered lag its always very smooth. They fixed the networking problems a long time ago

Dedicated servers wont magically just make the lag go away if you still have a shitty internet connection it all depends on how fast your internet is.

[Biggest]

"Dedicated servers wont magically just make the lag go away if you still have a shitty internet connection it all comes down to how fast your internet is."

I don't agree with this statement. As a player that started online gaming with a source wired connection (meaning directly from the modem) and now using wireless I can say that the server type is what dictates my gameplay. I can play online with MAG and BC2 and experience either no lag, or the same lag as everyone else in the game. Modern Warefare 2 was unplayable with a wireless connection. It wasn't hard to play. It wasn't difficult to play. It was unplayable. My internet speed is as good as it can get in my area. The wireless router I use is as good as civilian money can buy. It is always about the server type in my experience.

[HolyOrangeCows]

"If you are lagging then stop being cheap and getting the basic internet connection that most people seem to get and get a internet connection that is at least 10mb or more"

I have a top of the line internet connection and setup. Don't give me that BS.

A dedicated server obviously doesn't eliminate or "magically fix" lag, however, on a well coded game with good dedicated servers, players with bad connections will get the most punishment, often freezing in place on the systems of those with the better connection to the server, getting the fastest data updates.

But I know you're just protecting your beloved Xbox franchises, b1221.

[bioshock1221]

I like how you just say "I have a top of the line internet connection and setup" without giving a number. I'm guessing your parents pay for your Internet and that is why you didn't give a number. Since if you actually payed for you own Internet you would know your own Internet Speed and you would have just listed it. What does the way you setup your internet connection have to do with the speed lol. I have Verizon fios plan that is 25 mb down and 25 mb up and honestly rarely lag.

lol and how am I protecting my beloved "Xbox franchise" so just because "In my own" experience when playing Gears 2 I never encounter lag. So that somehow translates to me protecting my beloved Xbox franchise lol wow the irony in your post. So what am I suppose to do just agree like most people in here and just say yes it's broken and it lags horribly will that make you happy? Am I just suppose to agree with the majority instead of my own experience.

Yes it was broken when it first came out but now it's better with all the updates they have released but I'm guessing you and the people saying it's broken don't play Gears 2 much since you guys didn't know that. But look at the people I'm talking to N4G one of the most ignorant community in gaming no wonder no one takes this website serious mostly because of the community people like you. If you say the truth people will vote you down to 1 bubble because they can't handle the truth.

[RatFuker]

ding dong the witch is dead, the witch is dead, the witch is dead, ding dong the wicked witch is dead.

finally we can put those rumours to rest, i knew it would not have dedicated servers, i told everyone. I WAS RIGHT.

[FlatulentGhost]

Even with laggy P2P I'm sure it will be another AAA game just like the first one. Just look at the amazing reviews it got:

[Corepred4]

yeah cuz the reviewers' blog is sooooo credible.

[Time_Is_On_My_Side]

XBOX Live isn't a real P2P network, it's a switched network, it makes a difference. If it was a P2P there would be no point of paying for it, lol? You have to remember Microsoft charges because of the network topology, not for the features if offers.

Haven't you played online with XBOX before?

[Parapraxis]

Crap, I was happy to hear this and now it's no more.
Very unfortunate.
You'd think that MS would see the demand many have for dedicated servers and provide them for at least some of their top titles.

[McMee]

thats ok p2p is better anyway jk would have been nice though

[DatNJDom81]

The gears multiplayer might see some improvements, but whats the point if it lags. Really epic get some dedicated servers. your loyal xbot fangirls deserve that at least. they paid 60 bucks for a great multiplayer experience, dont mess it up with the lag. As I said before, people do love investing in some faulty ass hardware. LOL!

[atticus14]

there are a lot of misinformed "opinion facts" in this comments section lol. p2p is and will be very subpar for everyone but the host or those living close to him...this is why xbox live is such a joke to pay for...your own xbox and isp works as the server, MS has no real cost that they want you to think they do...their real costs come from trafficking demos and the servers that support them...which ironically are available to silver members, who pay nothing. So thats right boys and girls, gold subs pretty much pay the price for silver subs members to download the demos.

but anyway, p2p will be effective one day, when everyone has fiber and consoles have a bit more spare processing power and ram to play around with (the fiber part being 100x more important), and your whopping 20mb download speed has nothing to do with lag, lag is solely dependent on server location and quality of your isp's servers and routing. For instance those with say 15mb/down would have the same ping if they lowered their connection to 1.5mb... games dont even come close to using that much data...

dont get me wrong there are some crappy dedicated servers out there too, but that just means they are being mismanaged and probably overloaded - as companies stick 20 client hosts on one server to save money. But theres nothing like a good game of Quake 3 on a nice dedicated server, where you can feel nearly every ms of ping.

Also those playing p2p in and around bigger cities probably have a much better experience, as matches are probably much more local, and your host very well may have fiber.

upload speed is always more important.

[Snakefist30]

Man I was hopping for a dedicated server so tat I cud play gears of wars without laging.So the lagging will continue?? DAM!!!!

[jaredhart]

FAIL.

[playstation_clan]

well, im going back to uncharted, who with me?

[emil1]

xbox live is really worth 50$ per year

[huzzaahh]

I "Agreed" with the sarcasm of your statement, not the statement itself.

[Convas]

I paid 30 Dollars with an Amazon Gift Card for mine.

Your comment has been void for the last 2 years buddy.

[Biggest]

Clizzz said: "I paid. . ."

And that, my friend, is where you fail.

[Parapraxis]

Sorry Clizzz, but sales/discounts don't make the MSRP null and void.

[Nathaniel_Drake]

hmmm....$50 and its been 5 years so $150 there is a Kinect joke in there somewhere but I'm not funny enough to find it

[Whoooop]

Yeah... Invest on dedicated servers when the community has been paying happily for p2p online gaming since the first Gears.

MS and EPIC really thought using dedicated servers for a while

/s

[Parapraxis]

Ah missed your sarcasm, so you think EPIC & MS have no vested interest in providing dedicated servers to gamers so why would they.
I sadly agree.
Unfortunately MS is happily taking this route, whereas if you look at Sony and things such as PS.blog.share they are very interested in giving their gamers what they are asking for.
Two very different approaches it would seem.

[Whoooop]

Yeah... I just meant that MS/EPIC wouldn't invest in dedicated servers when they have the structure to implement P2P like they have been doing throughout this gen with the fans's support.

No reason for them to do so really.

[dirthurts]

P2P is the suck.
I hate it. Maybe they'll at least optimize their networking code.

[RyuDrinksTheDew]

what the hell man?

[nefertis]

Ouch.

[pixelsword]

...Which is why I'll never likely pay for XBL; You're paying them for the privilege of playing on your own consoles, host advantage included.

People need to look up net neutrality and take it to heart before spending fifty bucks for something you can do on the PC for free... or better yet, have PC and PS3 dedicated servers.

I'm just sayin'.

[Lucas25]

its 35 dollars for xbox live.

http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-...

[pixelsword]

That's a sale, and once again, I can play on PC or PSN and save the money for snacks.

If you were trying to inform me, thanks; but I'll go retro before paying to play online.

[jdktech2010]

Also, those sales happen all the time at different retailers.....I've never payed 50 bucks for XBOX Live...never

[dirthurts]

I like XBL but paying for P2P is a bit nuts.
We really should get dedicated servers. I haven't renewed since my last one year ran up...I may not.

[MonopolyRSV]

Epic Failure Games. It's gonna be a big seller, why not ensure long term sales by setting a little money aside to pay for some central servers? Half assed nonsense.

[Dylantalon1]

the xbox 360 fanboys and gears fanboys are the worse sheep. instead of the sheep ignoring gears of war in protest of the lag and glitches, theyde rather tout about how amazing the game is while it is unplayable and unfair online with host advantage and death inconsistency.

why should epic games spend more money from their pockets for dedicated servers when they know they can sell gears of war with glitches, and lag and the sheep will buy it? you xbox 360 fanboys and gears fanboys are so stupid. these sort of people would like to play quality titles but because they are sheep, theyll eat up what ever their master feeds them. dont buy gears of war if its flipping broken you lemmings. the game lags insanely with 8 and 10 people while games like killzone 2 supports 32players, resistance 2 supports 60 players, and MAG supports 256 players with zero lag. to each his own, i prefer quality.

[Lucas25]

All of those game lag. Every game online for the ps3/360 lag

[M4ndat0ry_1nstall]

@Dylantalon1

LMAO! Just checked your gamertag, you haven't even played the entire Gears 1/2 single player campaigns let alone the MP LMAO (Gamertag not found)

How can you call other people sheep when your jumping on the Gears has lag/glitches etc in MP bandwagon without even playing the MP?

Also strong collection of games you have there LOL.

- http://profile.mygamercard....

[A change in the wind]

Bring the lag.

[multipayer]

Looking at the horde of empty servers in unreal 3 on pc, and watching as gears of war produces millions more dollars with enough people to actually fill those servers. I gotta say someone is doing it wrong. Epic or MS?

[games4fun]

i am now renting gears of war 3, no point in owning it now. dedicated or go home.

[josh14399]

p2p is fine if done properly but it rarely is for console gaming thats why people get a lot of lag. dedicated servers can lag aswell if youve played bc2 you know what im talking about. If dedicated servers are done properly though you wont experience lag unless you connection is terrible. Games like warhawk suffer from hardly any lag at all due to the dedicated servers done properly. even with dedicated servers gears 3 will probably lag it seems epic are useless at these types of things on consoles.

[SpitFireAce85]

have dedicated servers on Gears 3 as long as people keep
buying their games.Why should they if they know that
the game will sell.Just like Activison will never have
dedicated servers for COD franchise they even removed
dedicated servers for the PC version of MW2.So as long
as gamers don't complain that's the way it will be.

[Why o why]

but true

[SKUD]

Lag is just part of playing Gears of war.

[multipayer]

I wouldn't mind lag if the host wasn't so super powerful. If host was a competent player, they could kill the entire other team by their self half the time. Which makes a full battle almost futile.

I say give us dedicated servers or manually enforce 100ms delay on the host. =P

[IHateYouFanboys]

ive said it before and ill say it again - dedicated servers do NOT equal no lag, and they do NOT automatically mean better online play than P2P.

Halo 3 uses P2P and its got basically the most stable and lag free online play in any console game in history. why? because Bungie write good net code.

Dedicated servers just mean that noone will have 'host advantage'. it also means that if the server that your console connects to is 10000km away, youre ALWAYS going to lag and theres nothing you can do about it. dedicated servers dont make data travel any quicker. all they do is take everyones data, calculate whats going on, then send the data out to everyone. if someone tries to play online with dial-up internet, dedicated servers dont suddenly make that person have good internet. the person will lag, and it will in turn make everyone lag.

online play quality revolves more around techniques that are used to minimize and hide lag. Region filters are the BEST way of reducing lag, bar none. dedicated servers are great if everyone is close to each other and the server is in the middle of everyone and everyone has good connections, but thats never the case in real life.

what region filters do is make it so you play with people near you, reducing the chance of lag. couple that with ping limits and it means youll only get in to matches with people close to you, and with a good ping, meaning decent lag. then you add in things like client side hit detection and client side hit animation to HIDE what lag there is, which thanks to the region filter and ping limit, should be minimal.

Gears of War 1 worked perfectly on P2P because it showed you the matches ping BEFORE you joined it. see red ping? dont join that game. see full white ping? join it and enjoy virtually lag free gaming.

Gears 2 did away with that, instead offering worldwide matchmaking with NO preference for region - and thats where the s#%t hit the fan. suddenly it was saying that I, in australia, should be playing with old mate sven in sweden purely because we were the same in-game rank/level. never mind the fact that hes 50 000km away from me and playing on-dial up internet, hes the same level as me so we should play together.

when they added the region preference a few updates ago, suddenly lag was nowhere to be seen (apart from for us Aussies, since Epic refused to give us the region preference).

/rant. \disagrees.

[Paradise Lost]

Oh yeah i also noticed the incredible IWnet Infinity ward has given to the pc crowd. It's really working out very very well and i do hope Treyarch Implement something like IWNet for pc users!
I mean c'mon dedicated servers are so 10 years ago!
***

[snaileri]

I think you forgot to disable the sarcasm mode on your keyboard.

[Obama]

The lags of war continues, just like the Iraq war.

[snaileri]

Good thing they won't have the dedis, hehe
Back to play CS:Source, Battlefield 2, Left 4 Dead, Killing Floor and other games that have dedicated servers ->

[kasasensei]

I am dreaming of a day when 360 users will finally realized they get f* all these years....
Microsoft is not even able to provide dedicated servers for one of the MAJOR title of the 360.... Just a SHAME.

[Kahvipannu]

Bad news. I don't play much competitive mp in GeOW, but still, bad news.

[midgard227]

awww dang, and when ya thought ya wud finally get what ya pay for, they say no hah that sux. guess gears 3 will be just as laggy 4 players than ever....(goes back to mag 256 players no lag on free online gaming :)

[Kingdom Come]

At no point do Epic claim within that e-mail that Dedicated Server's are not definate, they just say that it has not been announced.