The Next-Generation Xbox Format Problem

It’s no secret that the Xbox 360 chose the wrong video format when they sided with the HD-DVD. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD gave each other some good competition at the beginning of their lifespan, but Blu-ray quickly showed its dominance and the HD-DVD is now enjoying it’s time next to the beta max and 8-track formats on the “thanks for trying” table. Meanwhile, the PS3 is currently enjoying some serious sales due to the included Blu-ray player inside of the device. It’s currently the #1 reason people buy the console (at around 60% of all total sales) and the most popular Blu-ray player used by consumers. Both Microsoft and Sony gambled on the new format and Sony certainly chose right. So where does that leave Microsoft?

[Godmars290]

But they still put a standard - and apparently very cheap and hungry - DVD player in the 360.instead of waiting the few months that still would have given them a lead against the PS3 if not the Wii.

Says something about their ability to make choices, don't it...

[N4GAddict]

They got a nice head start from Sony. Too bad for them it is quickly dwindling.

[ATLGAMER]

But ps3 at its current price point and even with natal...ps3 is the system to own right now

[FarEastOrient]

Xbox 1080 can handle the licensing fee for BD since they already pay royalty fees to the DVD Association which Sony is a member of. For every single Xbox 360 and game sold a few cents goes into Sony's coffers.

Money is going both ways in this industry, every Final Fantasy XIII sold on X360 has money going to Sony since they own 10 percent of Square Enix. Where as every Sony Vaio sold, money is being passed to Microsoft for Windows 7 and so on.

Don't believe these companies are in a bind when they really are already integrated into each others' businesses.

[FarEastOrient]

Just one more thing, when is Nintendo going to allow the Wii to even be able to play DVD movies, without hacking of course.

[HolyOrangeCows]

Unless they seriously go all DD (Like they're always going on about, claiming it's the future), and they had better not since not everyone has internet access and they price their HDDs RIDICULOUSLY HIGH, then they had better have a new format for the next xbox.

Rockstar and even capcom regarding LOST PLANET 2 have complained about having to cut back on content. Capcom even admitted they were going to just go ahead and turn it into DLC.

[RedDevils]

"when is Nintendo going to allow the Wii to even be able to play DVD movies" well you don't need a wii for watching dvd just grab 10-30 buck and get a brand new dvd player

[XxMajeSteRxX]

you couldn't have sad it any better,and i think M$ needs to kiss sony's feed for the blueray licenced palyer,because it's all about bissness baby,in the end it will be a beast of a system,plus money money money

[bakasora]

Red Dead could have been bigger

[Strange_Evil]

Well to be fair, they needed more time alone in the market. The 360 was a successor to a console which didn't really have a good market and they needed a product which was well priced and at least a year out before the PS3. Any more delay and it would have been deja vu with again the 360 faltering last. So they found a cheapest option and patched it up.

360 lacked direction early on... They didn't even have HD to start off, but after seeing that the HD market was expanding and PS3 supporting it, they opted for it. Same with HD-DVD, just so that they could counter Sony and look big, they adopted a format to go against them. MS may be big, but Sony in terms of movie studios and especially the media industry is far more integrated and that really hurt MS (in terms of reputation) with HD-DVD when it lost. And now banking all the chips on Natal.

If you look at it, MS never intended the 360 to last long. But now, since it's really unreasonable to ask consumers to buy a new console, the companies are just beginning out peripherals to just cover up the losses and lengthen the gen.

[Godmars290]

The thing there is that Sony regarded all aspects of the HD market when they designed the PS3. MS was only looking - considering to the intent a willingness to sabotage disc formats? - at DD while ignoring they weren't really the first go-to consumer choice what with on demand video services from dozens of other sources.

Its the same basic mistake they made with the DVD drive on the Xbox1 during the PS2 era.

[outrageous]

The 360 was launched knowing that the HD-DVD or Blu-ray tech was not ready. That had nothing to do with lack of direction. That has been explained many times. Old news and time to move on. M$ said that coming out first against the Playstation was critical to the success of Xbox against the MASSIVE selling ( 100 million ) PS2. Five years later, they still have a 6 million console lead. The largest installed subcibition PAYING on line community of any console and are about to embark on a huge marketing campaign, starting at E3, with the most advanced gaming add-on ever, naysayers aside. Don't forget, 360 was making $75 profit on EVERY 360 sold one year after launch. PS3 only making $15-18 with the introduction of the slim. The Wii-65++ million and SD and no blu-ray. The guys with Blu-ray are in last.

Now, The whole DVD space thing is a fraud. It's an excuse from poor developers who look to explain their bad/poor games on space constraints. Great developers make great games. Bad developers make bad games. This is proven over and over again.

Alan Wake has 2.4 GB of actual game data. Add 3.74 GB that is " ALLOCATED " for all the full motion video sequences that also include audio support for SEVEN languages, for a total of 6.15 GB. The game will take 10-16 hrs to complete. Of course this depends on a players game play tendencies. Regardless many HUGE games have been created this gen, games like GTA, RDR and many others. Why are blu-ray games no longer in length, some being very short. How do these developers offer so much content but others struggle?

The recent departures at M$ has in part to do with the " NEW " Xbox that will be coming in 2012. The current entertainment group wanted to extend the 360 4-5 years. Not gonna happen. M$ wants to be first again. This gen of gaming has been HUGE for M$. E3 will be big. They have 2 of there top selling IP's coming out in Halo Reach and Fable plus whatever else is announced at E3.

[Godmars290]

All your points are weak/empty. Making comparisons between the 80+ million gap the PS2 had against the Xbox1, and the once 9 million sales gap between the 360 and PS3 which is now 5. Does it only matter to you that there are gaps and not their size?

And so what if Alan Wake is around 6GB, 4 of which you seem to dismiss because video and audio are unnecessary components in your opinion, the game's 5 years of work that isn't what it was when first shown and no PC version. Is a good enough title with a number of decent reviews, but its hardly being called a benchmark of the current generation in any regards. No ones even talking about how its selling.

Also, so what if the 360 has the largest paid subscription base among consoles, its also the ONLY current subscription based console.

[commodore64]

@ outrageous

You make some very valid and logical points.
I have noticed that when people make such valid posts, the number of hardcore ps3 fans that disagree is simply a good indication that you are right on the money.

Don't ask me how that works - it just does!
;)

With regard to DVD capacity, RdR is a game that fits easily on one DVD and does not require a mandatory install (on the 360).

When it comes down to it, more storage is nice for FMV and CGI sequences, while the graphics and gameplay experience are easily contained in a dvd format, in most cases.
If we are all honest, we will come to the same conclusion.

[SaiyanFury]

The way I analyze the MS decision to incorporate DVD into their console, and only making an HD DVD movie player, is ultimately they want digital distribution, which they have constantly favoured over BD. To this day MS repeatedly denies that BD is the answer to HD gaming. They knew HD DVD would falter compared to Sony's BD format which was the next logical physical step with this gen. Each generation of consoles in history has seen a physical increase in storage media. From the era of the 16-bit consoles, we moved into the 32-bit era. They needed high capacity and low cost CDs. The PS and Saturn used this very well as a few consoles before them in the SEGA CD and 3DO. Moving beyond the original PS and Saturn, the PS2 used single and dual layered DVDs. Again, an increase in capacity in physical medium. Now, with the current generation of consoles, Sony is the only one to employ a physical medium with higher capacity, which developers have repeatedly lauded. Combined with a standardized HDD, the PS3 is the best designed HD console to date. It's been a dream of developers to offload capacity onto a physical HDD as well as a high capacity medium for game performance. God knows the Uncharted games make use of those features and we can see the quality that stems from use of both. BD is the near future as HD games with increased polygons and higher texture resolutions take up more space. Shyte, it wasn't even enough for legendary game developer Hideo Kojima. You'd think 50GB was enough for anybody. MGS4 uncompresses it's chapters onto the HDD every time you finish one as it uninstalls the previous one.

MS strongly favours digital download, a form not favoured by the majority of gamers. I'm not trying to trumpet Sony here as a fanboy, merely a person trying to analyze the market. BD is the standard for the near future (maybe 5 or so years until it expands beyond 50GB per disc), and MS won't follow suit.

Hell, maybe I'm wrong and DD will ultimately be the form of the future. But until everyone can access internet speeds up to 100mbps and such, I don't think it'll happen. I'm happy buying physical copies of games, as do the majority. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I don't think I am. :)

[klado]

What a good read you have pulled there, +B.

[giovonni]

Some of your comments. However, if we truly open our eyes DD has already been accepted. Every time we go into the Sony store, apple store, android store, or market place and buy a movie, game, or download content for our favorite game we are slowing moving into the realm of DD.
In the past year and a half alone Digital distribution has been a major player with movies and cell phones. Sony has started to release some of there ps3 games as download content.
We also have new medias such as clear that allow us faster speeds so now we can download movies, and games in public places faster.
The majority of gamers dont give a care how they get there gaming fix. Ask those millions who downloaded episode content of Grand Theft auto IV. There is a reason places like Blockbuster have gone belly up
I see DD taking over in less then five years I give it by 2012 the majority of our content will be downloaded whether we like it or not.

[thehitman]

I disagree MS was not prepared on any front. Saying they wanted DD is just an excuse for them not supporting a physical media better than DVD from the start. None of MS actions support DD. No HD SKUS and the 1s that did have HD were very small and couldnt fit much. It wasnt until the elite launched that they started to show some interest in that market which was really late in the game.

Everything else was on point though.

[MechaGear]

Just where would I store my 40+ games if they were all dd? I'd have to delete them once in a while only to redownload them if I wanted to play. I'm lucky to be on a 100Mbit line already, but hell, no thanks to dd only.

[DigitalHorror81]

You just earned a bubble. Well said.

[SkyGamer]

@thehitman

MS never wanted a physical medium ever. Back then internet bandwith was pitiful so they couldn't make everything dd. Now average internet speed is 8 mbps. With that you can dl an entire game (compressed about 4 gb) in an evening. Bump that up to the 54 to 50 mbps for the high end and you could dl in a matter of hours, 2-3. When MS released the X360, they thought it as a business model and much like the uber-successive ps2. They wanted to charge extra for stuff probably to recoup some of the losses from the Xbox. I really don't care about wifi, but I had wished they put a standard hdd in every model.

I'll say it again, the next physical medium wil be USB. With USB 3.0 with 3gbps transfer rate and a higher voltage, you can have 128 gb Flash drives, which is UNSKIPPABLE, much more sturdy and you don't have to worry about operating a laser or have a mechanism for "spinning a disc" which in all reality is "OLD TECH". Heck now even hdd's are becoming old tech with SSD. That is where the future is. Oh and without a disc drive, you can make a console "SO SMALL". Besides DD is on the rise and with redbox and Netflix, Hollywood Video and Game Crazy are "going out of business" with Blockbuster to soon follow. When you can "stream" 1080p movies, what's the point of going down to your local store?

[SaiyanFury]

Thank you for the support, all. I merely tried to analyze the market from a logical point of view based on the goings-on in game industry history. I noticed a few people disagreed with me about Microsoft and the digital distribution thing. That's just fine, but as a couple of people mentioned, until people can all access extremely fast download speeds with reasonable monthly rates with huge HDD capacities in consoles (which is only reasonable on the PS3), DD won't likely become a reliable distribution medium for games. It's easy to download an HD movie that's a couple of gigabytes, but how about a game like Metal Gear Solid 4? My maximum internet speed is only 3mbps. The *most* I've ever been able to download in a day is about 5GB. If I were to attempt to download MGS4 via a DD model, it would take me 10 days. Of course, a lot of people who live in cities have a faster internet connection, but I, and a lot of other people do not. Until many more people can access speeds above 10mbps, DD won't be a viable delivery method of games. Especially for people who want to play that newly released game NOW. On a slightly different argument, many ISPs now throttle bandwidth, meaning they cap internet usage after a certain amount of bandwidth has been consumed. They usually do it after a certain amount of GB have gone by. Think they'd allow MGS4 or another huge game to be downloaded? Not likely. Beyond that, most gamers like owning a physical copy of a game they can bring to a friend's place. Just last night I showed my best friend Assassin's Creed 2 for the first time. He's not exactly in the know about the newest games and he loved it. I wouldn't be able to do that if DD was the main model of distribution. BD is here to stay, if at least for a while. And for that I thank Sony's forward thinking business model. :)

[mookins]

Where does it leave Microsoft?

The short end of the stick, that's for sure. They should have chosen a better format. We wouldn't have seen stupid comparison of games if they had chosen right or games that should have been multiplatform suffer from a lack of quality.

I expect they'll be much smarter with the next console.

[kneon]

Actually it wasn't a bad plan if you keep in mind that the 360 was only supposed to have a 5 year life span. Launching early gave them a big lead and going with DVD kept the cost down. HDTV adoption was still low at the time and the format war was yet to be decided. So it didn't make sense for them to pick sides as either choice would have delayed launch and increased the price to the same level as the PS3 launch price. So they went DVD and after 5 years the HD format would have been decided and HDTVs would be mass market.

The problem is they lost a huge amount of money due to the RROD and need to keep selling the 360 as long as possible. If they launched a new console today it would certainly be blu-ray based, but the cost would go up significantly as they aren't just going to slap a blu-ray drive into a 360, it would be a redesign with everything upgraded.

Xbox.next and PS4 will be blu-ray based with at least an 4x drive supporting at least 100gb.

[cliffbo]

everything in the 360 is cheap thats why i bought a ps3 well made quality product as all sony products are

[playstation_clan]

you get what u paid for

[theonlylolking]

PS2 had disc read errors but all other sony products I have work fine.

[Obama]

except the ps2 doesn't have a 54.2% failure rate.

[sikbeta]

Well, by the Next Gen I wanna see what MS is going to do, Sony is Smart and will put Pressure With Big-ass BRD (320GB BRD, maybe?) in the PS4 from Day One and Make their First Party Devs Show How They Can FILL a BRD with Huge Games, so MS will have 3 Choices:

1·Keep DVD, but how many DVDs when you know Games keep expanding
2·DD, This one can't be applied, yeah maybe in the US (some places), Europe (some places) and Japan (where the brand don't have any success), DD will only Limit the Userbase, knowing that for example, people in South America have internet connections but those are Lame or Overpriced for the Best Broadband, I know cos I have Pals in Brazil and Argentina
3·Accept Blu-Ray and paying royalties to the BDA including Sony...

[DeadlyFire]

Next Xbox is very likely to side with HVD. It Plays Blu-Ray movies and has more storage than standard DVD format. HVD starts at 100 GB disc. A 500 GB disc has been made as well. I believe 100 GB disc is most likely to be picked though.

[kneon]

we're at least 10 years away from HVD being commercially viable in a consumer electronics product. Consumer Blu-ray will do 500gb by the time the next gen consoles launch and the drives will be dirt cheap. And a few years after that up to 5tb given yesterdays announcement. If that's true then hvd could be a stillborn technology.

[OpenGL]

HVD will likely never see the light of day, but if it does it'll be close to 10 years from now.

[Denethor_II]

lol, you get bubbles just because you're a silly billy:)

[DeadlyFire]

I disagree. 2011/2012 I believe we will see. I am doubtful next-generation consoles will need games with more than 100 GBs of space though and if any format is chosen for next X360 its likely to match or surpass Blu-Ray along the lines of storage. Only a few formats coming do that within the next 5 years. Blu-Ray and HVD both aiming to have commercial versions of 100 GB discs and on up. Its likely they will start around there. I know not cheap to invest in new tech. Microsoft is big enough to take a hit if they wanted to do so. We all know that.

500 GB discs possible by time next generation consoles are out maybe. It would be very expensive though. Not likely it will be aimed at your games for next generation. I don't wanna see another price hike on video games. $60 a game is enough. 100 GB or so will be more likely. 200-300 GB possible.

HVD isn't the only one coming. I know that. Microsoft isn't likely to just jump at Blu-Ray though. They have shown no signs of shifting their position to promote Blu-Ray. Maybe one or two rumors. They are just rumors. HVD is only other format that I know of that plays Blu-Ray so far. Right now its Microsoft's only other option if they want to keep Movie playability in the console without Blu-Ray. Microsoft could always throw an add on Blu-Ray player for Blu-Ray for X360, but I still say they are more likly to side with HVD than anything else for next generation if possible.

There is still HD VMD, 5D DVD, 3D DVD, PCD. All aiming at or above Blu-Ray and HVD formats. Unless something new pops up.

@Den_UK
ha. I know I throw alot of random claims out there.

[scofios]

That the next xbox is will have hd dvd / blu ray is not the most important thing to me , what matters is it to have its own identity and not trying to be a playstation . More first party studios that means more original games for your system and not having to go to e3 to anounce that you have give loads of cash to a studio to have a game that was befor on a playstation to impress .

[Denethor_II]

Ineloquently put, but point well noted.

[niceguywii60]

I'm actually surprised there are so little of these damage control articles before E3

[beardpapa]

by the time next gen consoles come out, we'll be having possibly 6 tb drives or more. 4 tb drives are coming out in the market shortly next year and new consoles aren't expected until 2012 right?

With that in mind, by that time most of the "next-gen" console owners probably also have fios or something suitably fast enough for digital downloads. Of course, I'm not a really big fan of digital download. Some games are okay, but it would be clearly a ripoff if we don't get to demo anything first before we buy.

And what's with digital downloads costing the same amount as their physical counterparts? That's just kinda wrong imo.

[dizzleK]

we already know this. are there any NEW stories?

[MechaGear]

Did you even bother to actually read the article?

[Nathan Drake2]

".... x360 is the leader in the number of exclusive hit games and is usually getting the popular vote when giving the choice between the big three." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

DVD on x360's hold 6.8GB data.

i think some ps3 games has no loading screens so i can't see how solid state could be better in that department.

if the next xbox will have blu ray-probably no piracy-the biggest reason to buy xbox over ps will gone forever. don't do it microsoft.

[Spydr07]

All PS3 games have of loading time. It generally takes longer to load than the 360 because BD drives just aren't as fast as DVD drives as the tech is not as developed. SSDs have incredibly fast read times and would be better "in that department" if not for their high price (2$ per gig on average).

[n4gn4gn4gn4g]

4 years on and STILL people do not get it.

The DATA THROUGHPUT of a 2x BD players is LARGER than the throughput of DVD 9 at 12x.

If the PS3 has 'slow load times' it is ONLY due to a dev that didn't optimize the laying down of the code on the BD disc in the first place. They put it on the BD disc as if it were a DVD disc. It is lazy and sloppy programing and has NOTHING to do with the 'speed' of the BD drive.

4 years now and people still don't understand this.

[Spydr07]

Touche.

From your statement tho, you are talking about location of information. A BD has a constant linear velocity, meaning data is essentially streamed at the same speed from anywhere on the disk. A DVD has a constant angular velocity, meaning the data is streamed faster on the outer edge than the inner areas of the disk.

So, as a dev, a DVD has an easy way out: data that's heavily accessed is stored on the outer area of the disk where the throughput is faster than a BD. I'm not a dev, so I don't know how that is countered on a BD. Do you?

Either way, the PS3 still has generally longer load times. I'm surprised more devs don't mask them the way ND did in Uncharted 2 or Sony Santa Monica did with GoW3.

Sidenote-
Has anyone run into the glitch in GoW3 where you can't progress after the three statues early on in the game? Kill the statues, move on a little bit to where you're supposed to jump down to a new area and it's just not there. The screen looks like the game is on an acid trip with a blur of colors and you fall to your death. Has there been a patch released for this? If I restart from the beginning will that fix it? Reloading the game doesn't fix anything.

[beardpapa]

SSDs are not viable for a console. The price would turn any head away. Now the hybrid drives coming out are interesting though - ssd performance at the price of a regular drive. Anyway SSDs aren't all that entirely fast. It's just fast for specific things. Also, it's a little unfair comparing a 2x bd drive to a 12x dvd. You can put in a fast dvd drive and still say "oh bd sucks cuz dvd is faster." How many "fast" bd drives are available anyway?

[N4GAddict]

Microsoft will use a proprietary disc format

[dirthurts]

Maybe not. It will depend on what they feel the customers want at the time. If blu ray is kicking hard and customers demand it in a console, they may go that way.

[mrv321]

'It’s currently the #1 reason people buy the console (at around 60% of all total sales) and the most popular Blu-ray player used by consumers.'

Really because if only $40 of people buy PS3 for blu-ray... isn't it funny how 4.17 MILLION people bought the MW2 on the PS3. Isn't it funny then that 10 million PS3 are currently in America. SO EVERY (100%) of people who bought the PS3 for games bought MW2 right? Or is it possible your figure is incorrect?

'This is a problem, as I’m sure you can see. While it’s not been too big of a concern this generation'

SO your telling me that the fact loads of games are coming out multidisk or suffering huge compression isn't evidence of a problem of DVD being too small?

'60 gigabyte flash card or a 300 gigabyte solid state drive could be about equal to that of a Blu-Ray disk now. ;

I must have missed that article? SSD are currently running at $128 PER 64GIG, or $2 a GIG. NOw even if that's cut to 1/4 in 4 years that's still $32 for 64gig... I don't think that leaves much for the developer wouldn't you agree... seeing as that's HALF of the current price of a game.

'but we all saw how well that worked for Sony and the PSP Go'

Or Sony with the PSP which sold 50 million, I don't think they are complaining too much about the PSP.

'-Nintendo- They still haven’t quite figured out the DVD yet…' Your WHOLE article is about size.... who use a custom disk which I believe loads quicker and is equal in size to a DVD... infact I believe it's LARGER than the disk used in the 360.

[Colonel-Killzone]

One thing nobody can't deny the Sony did say blueray will play a big role this generation with the PS3 and the "console war" in which it has.

[PMR_21]

it's BLU-Ray

spell it right

[evilmonkey501]

Hey, you misspelled "It's". The first letter of a sentence is capitalized. You also forgot your periods.

[dredgewalker]

Why not just still use hd-dvd since they are only gonna be used for its games? The technology is already there so why not use it?

[n4gn4gn4gn4g]

to press HD DVD discs...so you're costs would be out of whack. Plus...you still wouldn't be providing the consumer an optical disk format other than DVD to play movies on...if you're going to be multimedia you'll need BD moving forward or wait 2 or 3 more years and skip BD and go straight to Digital only.

[Colonel-Killzone]

Wait 60% of people bought a Ps3 for Blueray ? I believe thats some BS. I think that Blueray has played a big role in selling the ps3. But come on you get a game system with a Blueray player thats a good deal. But your making it sound like they play only movies and never play any games at all. Unless I'm just assuming Please reply because as I remember a lot of people was ranting about the Ps3 price. The ps3 slim sold 550k the first week of its 2009 release so 60 percent of people bought it for the blueray player 0_0 ? Someone reply so I can get the full understanding of this. Also Sony just needs to do its own survey on this so we can know for a fact this is true. Then again I mean whether is a blueray player or w.e reason your buying one its still selling so I guess Sony really couldn't care less

[evileyevileye]

I believe the writer got his data from here:

http://kotaku.com/5541239/w...

[silvacrest]

i might have believed that when the PS3 was a cheap way to get a blu ray player but now? you can get a good one for £100 or less

why spend hundreds more?

personally, i have only ever played one blu ray on my PS3

[DaTruth]

He really took that out of context. The article states that 65% of people had Bluray on their minds when purchasing a PS3 along with other reasons.

[JustTheFactsMr]

If it's from that site and it's about the PS3 you know it's pretty much being spun as a lie.

[IcarusOne]

You're reading and interpretting wrong. I bought my ps3 for it's bluray. That's what got me into the store. It's what got A LOT of people into the store. The fact that I game on it is secondary. Stop being so literal. I think your skull bandana is too tight.

[Deafman420]

I brought my ps3 mainly for blu ray movies and the believeth that evantually the games I like will come out on it. So far I've only played Heavy Rain on it and I've had it since last november. Aside from that, I wanted to be one of those people to help sony put pressure on microsoft to stop half assing it on xbox 360 (my system of choice). Glad the move is coming out though, I really hate the feel of the ps2/3 controller.

[Falloutxii]

ive been thinking of buying a bluray movie for my ps3, But I haven't gotten around to it, Too many great ps3 games to buy.

[AK46]

Same here, I just bought Modnation racers for my summer fix. So I'll have a few months of downtime before I get my next PS3 game(Socoom) To buy some great Blu-Ray titles starting with Lord of the Rings.

[Colonel-Killzone]

Wait maybe I'm just assuming to much. Maybe that 60 percent bought the PS3 mainly for the blueray player and still game on it from time to time. I know some people who are movie addicts who watch movies a lot but also game. BUT I never met someone who uses the ps3 only for watching movies. I watch movies time to time on my ps3. Also back in 2009 holiday season they had some amazing movie bundles with games. But me buying a console will always be for gaming blueray movies to me are the icing on the cake.

Edit: @Ultmate_Revenge thats very interesting indeed. The problem is how much would that thing cost I mean blueray is expensive enough. I mean Thats good it has that data the problem is how much that thing would cost 0_0. Also how much HVD hard drive would cost etc. I get what your saying The thing is I believe it would be to expensive.

[thor]

If the data are from here:

http://kotaku.com/5541239/w...

Then since a major motivating factor for 60% of the people was the games library, the only option is that there is crossover. That is, people bought the PS3 for a combination of factors - blu-ray being one of them. That could be said for me - but blu-ray wasn't THE main contributing reason for my purchase.

[ULTIMATE_REVENGE]

I'm a not a 360 fanboy but this article is very stupid because HVD's (Holographic Versatile Discs) are going to be commercialised and they can store tens of TB's on a single disc.

Theoretically they can reach over 100TB's of data and they also have super fast read speeds, so I think both Sony and Microsoft will opt for a HVD's or Sony could just come out with a newer version of Blu-ray.

I already know that Nintendo has jumped on the HVD bandwagon but both Sony or a Microsoft have yet to confirm what they're going to use for their next consoles. Personally I think HVD's are the future of disc storage after Blu-ray of course.

[Argento-Nox]

If movie studios don't support HVD, the format is unlikely to survive (e.g. laser disc, beta-max etc.). The reason HD lost to blu-ray wasn't just b/c of format size, but the fact that more studios supported blu-ray, even though HD dvd's were first to the market.

[ULTIMATE_REVENGE]

It was actually because of money and nothing else.

[n4gn4gn4gn4g]

could afford the content on a TB disc? Using modern compression you are talking about a disc with at least 25 full HD movies on it....the disc would be $500! Unless content required 1TB on a disc...you won't see it pushed to the mainstream.

[theonlylolking]

Never heard of it. I guess that news on 1tb blu-ray disk wont do when it comes against HVD with many times more TB; but how much does the disk cost compared to blu-ray will be the deciding factor.

[Shendow]

360 fanboys got their head up their butts, if microsoft did have bluray or something close. You bet they would talk sh!t to ps3 users about it.

I don't know about everyone, but I like to play a game in full hd an not fake hd and like to play a game that isn't compress to heck.

I what to point out the the bluray player runs at the same speed that dvd does, keep in mind to that unlike dvd, it is read more then one layer at the same speed.

That is pretty dam fast, heck ps3 can read a psone disc that is beat up like heck an read it like it was new.

[evileyevileye]

Actually, wrong. Blu-ray runs a lot slower than DVD because it has so much more data to read.

[kasasensei]

wrong reply XD

[Shendow]

http://www.joystiq.com/2006...

[IcarusOne]

PS3 would have been dead on arrival. The gap would have never closed.

There's two things PS3 fanboys need to thank MS for:
1. RROD
2. Choosing cheap DVD drive

Without either of these, the war would have been over before it started.

[Consoldtobots]

@ Icarus

right because no one can keep with MS's huge first party developer stable...... oh wait.

[CryWolf]

360 gamble to go against blu-ray well look where their at now still using DVDs to play games with sub-HD graphics, we all know MS isn't the smartest cats in the game business but making a HD-DVD add-on was the biggest mistake in format wars history why didn't MS just integrate it into the xbox 360 even knowing that the console would be overprice but it would have been a better move for the lifecycle of their console tho.

Now Microshit is trying to go with digital distribution for there next xbot console, who have the megabits to download full Gigabyte games online without any of there internet subscribers using caps these days, so another dumb move on MS part yet again.

[DaTruth]

If games this gen are 25-50 gigs, can you imagine DD'ing a next gen game at 1080p+?

By the time you download one game, the console generation will be over!

[IcarusOne]

Downloadable games consistently have the highest resolution. Braid, Shadow Complex, Flower, GTPrologue are all 1080p.

Anything higher than 1080p (ultra HD) won't be coming to home theaters for at least another decade. So why would console makers incorporate a format that even the best TV's just don't support yet?

Slow down and enjoy the current gen, dude.

[RagTagBnd445]

Well, us PC gamers are loving Digital Distribution and we do download a lot of our games, so DD is not that bad, as long as it is optional.

[OutgoingSquall]

Yeah this Sony hate from x-box only owners is uncalled for Sony has newer and better tech on there side I don't get how a DVD is still needed after 10 years and there is no point to argue either hey if you like your 360 more power to you but don't say technical wise the 360 has anything on the ps3 it's not true your lying.

[Jihaad_cpt]

I see Microsoft fanboys are out in full force to stop backlash. Microsoft if they do choose a new medium for their disk format, they won't go with holographic disk format because the cost involved in that would make the console very expensive same thing would apply to HD DVD since through economies of scale dictate that cost of producing one unit of drive would be much more expensive than Blu-ray. So from a business standpoint they should go with Blu-ray as the cost would be much lower and technology has overhead to advance to greater capacities per disk

[Drjft]

Xbox 360 is so easy to pirate games for. I've flashed 50+ Xbox 360 drives for people and it's the easiest 2,000 dollars I've ever made.

That's another reason PS3 has the advantage, it's so difficult to pirate/modify the games and consoles.

[vsr]

The final Hurdle of PS3 development will be removed....We can see full use of bluray & forgot the DVD DL.... Xbox fans will enjoy their DD & PS3 fans will enjoy their Bluray

[dkgshiz]

That would be a pretty bad move. Mostly due to the fact 30% of America is still without broadband. Thats a big percent.

[kasasensei]

Support is not a problem.
Just look how many games are coming incomplete with "DLC"....
Most of the developers prefer to not optimize the full size of a DVD9 and put some chapter/track/skin on the market.... The real problem is here.
Even without any boxes games are cut in severals parts to make more money.
"want the end of that game? sure, we will provide you this in a couple of weeks, for only 9.99$! What a bargain!" Ubisoft.
And sometimes you pay for the content which is already on the game.
"Yes we have some amazing skins for you, yes they are already on the disk, but No, you will have to pay a little 2.99$ to access it! What a bargain!" Capcom.

Greedy editors/developers are greedy.

[cmrbe]

that the media is finally starting to catch up what everyone at Sony as well as PS fans knew since 3 years ago. All the crap talk about Bul ray inclusion being a big mistake is coming back to bite them in the ass.

MS has no option but to go with Blu-ray for their next console.. They lack the vision and the balls to introduce an new format next gen. What this means is that they will be directly competing again with the PS3 which by then will be dirt cheap.

[JustTheFactsMr]

Oh they all knew it back then.

Just like the knew about the RROD while urging you to buy a 360.

$$ and threat of lawsuits kept them in line at your expense.

[maka]

Sony owns Blu rays if Sony dont want MS to have Blu ray its not gonna have Blu ray. The only option MS have is to go with what PSP go did, but we all know how that turns out. If i have a choice to get something that i can hold and put in my collections or a data i stored in my HDD , then im getting the one i can add to my collections.

[NexGen]

Sony does not "own" Blu-ray. Where did you hear such a thing? They are part of a consortium of companies that funded, developed, and licensed the technology....licensed for others to use.

It's like saying "company x owns DVD format and therefore will not share if they don't want to."

MS could most definitely use Blu-ray should they choose to. Will they? I have no basis to speculate on that one, but can they? Yes, they most definitely could, even if Sony didn't want them to.

[bjornbear]

blu-ray is co-owned by Sony along with Panasonic and some others

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

so Sony DOES in a way own blu-ray (part of it, like a share holder) , so stop being so smug

[Consoldtobots]

next thing you know the fanboys will start saying bluray's success had nothing to do with Sony and it gave them the "win". It's like watching a think thank made up of mental patients.

[NexGen]

Lol, it's not smug, it's the truth. Sony is a part of the BD alliance (check wikipedia) but they operate and are represented with a large collection of 20 companies, including Apple, Sony, and 18 more. Their main goal: to push the BD format into as many homes as possible.

That collective is who "owns" blu-ray. In terms of development, hell yes, Sony did a crap-ton of the work and deserve credit there. But don't be fools and think they have any right or major stake in who can use BD, as the collective is there to spread the adoption of BD like wildfire. MS using it is a win for them, Sony included.

But no, in no way shape or form (other than 1/20th vote) does Sony dictate who can use a BD drive. Please educate yourselves.

[vsr]

MS & Nintendo can update the Ram & Gpu of next console...But the physical media will be the problem... If they opt SSD / HVD or anything, What will be the cost? Is it affordable?

[divideby0]

besides the RROD, the 2nd biggest design flaw in the 360 is not backing BR.
DD will be the future, but not in time for MS to back a disk format
I so wish my 360 had a BR drive

[Brklynty1]

60% of the PS3 owners tested bought it because it had a Blu-Ray player not because to play Blu-Ray movies. That would be saving space. 360 owner and Wii owners would have to buy a stand alone set. While those 60% of owners got a combo, the best blu-ray player on the market with arguably the best console designed.

[vader1231231]

Why the hell is Nintendo never knocked for using a largely unsupported, watered down DVD format??????

[Strikepackage Bravo]

uses DVD and games run even better on that platform so DVD is not obsolete just yet. Bluray was just another example of Sony pushing it's format on everyone so they alone can make all the money. HDDVD was superior in every way for consumers except size, and even then it was big enough for movies.

Sony had to have a format of their own that would make them more money even though the format sucks for consumers. Cost, speed, the players are slow as molasses and half of them are obsolete already due to no Ethernet port on early units. It takes studios longer to transfer movies to bluray and on top of all that the format costs more.

[RagTagBnd445]

PC uses the harddrive to run games from, and only DVD's to store highly compressed install files on.

[bjornbear]

PC has installs, and PC optimizes installation of highly compressed files, NOTHING to do with consoles.

face it, DVD on a console is last gen.

[silvacrest]

i thought it was because wii owners dont care enough

[Ri0tSquad]

There's no point in using blu-ray for Wii games; they have smaller textures and the games are only 480p.

[Strikepackage Bravo]

to get find many opinions of substance here because so many of you are just unabashed Sony fanboys. You are so blinded by your love of all things Sony and hate of all things MS, that the things you say are just barely worth reading, we already know what your going to say before you say it. MS is evil and stupid, Sony is god, its always the same with you people.

The truth is BD was put in the PS3 to enhance its position over hddvd, games STILL have not proven that the format is greatly improving quality and was needed.

The decision was wise for MS because they are in 2nd place instead of 3rd, ahead of the former behemoth playstation brand, no one thought that was possible. MS is making money hand over fist with the xbox and Sony is following Microsofts lead this gen, so who made poor decisions? Not MS apparently. With the exception of RROD 360 has been executed near flawlessly.

[bviperz]

But in the end it's the software not the hardware that counts. In other words, it's all about the games.

[Consoldtobots]

so the first stage is denial (bluray will fail, Sony will fail, yada yada yada"

now it's bitterness

"all you sony fanboys, so many of you are PS3 fanboys, yada yada yada" AGAIN

does the world feel like its closing in on you sparky? I guess acceptance is next.

[Ri0tSquad]

"to get find many opinions of substance here because so many of you are just unabashed Sony fanboys. You are so blinded by your love of all things Sony and hate of all things MS, that the things you say are just barely worth reading, we already know what your going to say before you say it. MS is evil and stupid, Sony is god, its always the same with you people. "

Yes, this site is filled with PS3 fanboys yet you can't resist posting on here to complain about it - we get it!

"The truth is BD was put in the PS3 to enhance its position over hddvd, games STILL have not proven that the format is greatly improving quality and was needed."

They probably did, but to say it doesn't benefit games is false. Rockstar, 2K, id, and other developers complain about DVD space often. Not to mention, the issue is starting to show in 360 games (forza3, ME, RAGE, and most RPGs).

Most people like to use the argument "oh, but Crysis on PC only uses 1 DVD!". Yes, that's true, but the damn data is compressed on the DVD and uncompressed when the *entire game* is installed to the computer. The comparison makes little to no sense at all. The game is never ran from the DVD like 360 games are. Even if the PC games comes with 2-3 discs, you will only install it once and have the first DVD in the drive to validate the game; everything is played from the HDD, no disc swapping required.

[PRHB HYBRiiD]

i was playing my ps3 yesterday and i got the red screen of death...its kinda funny cause my xbox is 1st gen and its still working ,i use it every day...i didn't even use ps3 that much and it's dead. i thought ps3's don't die. :(

[ALFAxD_CENTAURO]

''i was playing my ps3 yesterday and....''

Yeah right, typical comment from a butthurted user.

[PRHB HYBRiiD]

typical comment for a user with 2 bubbles.

[dragonelite]

lol who says dvd is dead.

[url] http://translate.google.nl/...

[crapgamer]

I don't think there is an issue for the foreseeable future. Most actually are even less the 7 gig's they are talking about. If things were ever that crowded they can use more then one disk or free DLC. It don't matter to me either way, I prefer the 360 for their exclusives and any multiplatforming I do.
The next Xbox will have Blu Ray and we can stop seeing retarded articles like this one.

[keysy420]

the console war was won along time ago when hd-dvd failed and nintendo never could have won this gen because of blu-ray once sony changed the format we will use for the rest of our lives it was over blu-ray is the future and so far since its release has been the past. cartiages are expensive remember nintendo and why final fantasy became a a ps exclusive. ms will either go digial which is a mistake or blu-ray, its not like they would have choosen a differnt disk format for the first xbox. this gen was about alot more than just games and sony is leading the way with that. it sucks that MS is only intrested in stealing the consumers money becuase they could really get alot more if they were more about expanding the industry and growing it instead of worring about sony and nintendo. seriously nintendo and sony dont give two fcks about M$ in the overall picture. they work together on alot of things, but are stil rivals.

For all your information using flash drives isnt going to grow the industry it will set it backwards flash drives are expensive and a step backwards

[2cents]

"Now, what about Nintendo…? They still haven’t quite figured out the DVD yet…"

lol

[bjornbear]

i'm sure its fine.../s

[hoops]

Forget optical drives altogether for the next gen systems. Just use DVD9 or HD-DVD or Blu-Ray just to install games and have large HDD or better yet, large SDD inside to actually run them. Little to no load times. They are faster and more reliable then Optical media.

[ForeAllEternity]

And not holding back the industry while sucking your customers dry with overpriced add-ons.

[iliimaster]

do people get that this is so far off its not even worth talking about???

god of war 3 was how big? over 20 gigs... ur telling me that now or even in 10 years downloading 20+ gigs for a game would be more fun then driving to a store picking up a hard cover case and a disc thats yours forever.. over waiting hours and hours and hours to download a game? what if it messes up 6 hours into the download? currupt file or sometime? ur killin me with this digital crap... its just M$ trying to not feel as embarrassed for banking on HD-DVDs charging 199 dollars for it????????????????????? on top of LIVE on top of the console itself and this was in the prime RROD time mind you

[ASSASSYN 36o]

How many comments from past articles on this same subject can I put right here? [----------------------------- -------] Answer: Plenty!

[Master of Unlocking]

"So where does that leave Microsoft?"

Answer: in deep sh!t. Sony being the corner stone of the Blu-Ray Association, nothing gets done without their consent. And I for one doubt they're gonna allow one of their direct competitor to have access to their brilliant tech. Or maybe they will, just for the pleasure to see M$ bend over, so Sony can stick it deeply in their arses: completely over-the-top royalties, just for M$, anyone? ;D ;D ;D Hahaha ha ha , lololol
You're done M$, better pull the plug on the ybox (or w/e it's gonna be called) altogether and go back designing overpriced crappy software that turn people's computers into a girl caught in a gang rape!

@ illimaster: 35 gigabytes, actually. God of War III weighs around 35 gigabytes, which to my knowledge is the new record,after Metal Gear Solid 4's 33 gigs. :)

[ManiacMansion]

i dont care about the format.. i buy a console to play games... i dont care to change a disc for 10 seconds after 10 hours (lol) or to play a game without disc changing but installing it 20 minutes before i can even play.

Its just important to get a great game you can have fun with.

[barakiu]

plan for 100x faster internet speeds,
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
the new format could be download only even sooner than later or streaming/cloud gaming.

It’ll probably be necessary for faster speeds anyways just to run games online. Could today’s PS360 games run on 56k?

[0LDSCH00L]

Whats up with all the childish hostility on N4G today? looks like a bunch of frustrated and angry fatherless kids on thier fourth stage of puberty to me.

[romancer]

In my view, any serious gamer will choose to own both of the major systems, if not all three, simply for the sake of the games that are available.

HD-DVD was a respectable choice for MS to make... rumor has it that SONY paid some Hollywood studios huge sums to make their product Blu-Ray exclusive. Blu-Ray did not come to dominate the disc market because it had some natural superiority. Money talked... and Blu-Ray became the only high definition disc format to survive...for a while.

Personally, I have stopped buying Blu-Ray discs; i rent them occasionally but don't buy them. When i want to watch a movie i have a choice of downloading from Apple through iTunes; from my local cable company in HD pay-per-view; from Microsoft through the XBox...from Netflix (by download or disc rental). These services are adding more movies all the time and improving their technology and delivery systems. I do not see a bright future for Blu-Ray in all this. A great many modern movies are not worth collecting and viewing repeatedly. They are disposable entertainment and that fits the downloaded-movie option perfectly...

So what it comes down to, for me, is that the game console systems are just that...
gaming systems. Blu-ray counts for less and less during this transitional time for home entertainment. The discs are over-priced (compared to digital downloads).
Perhaps 3-D HD discs may rejuvenate the blu-ray market, but not for long.. Technology is this area is moving ahead very quickly and anything that is too expensive is bound to become obsolete.

[Jazz4108]

Ms will be working on there own format for games some sort of proprietory tech but I believe they will support uhd for the movie end of it. This is what the ms rep has been telling me. He also states we will see a 360 slim at e3 so let's see if he gets that right then I will be more likely to believe his words for the future.

[colonel179]

I don't think so

[El_Colombiano]

"It’s currently the #1 reason people buy the console (at around 60% of all total sales)"

That is complete bullsh*t

[OC_MurphysLaw]

Does the author not realize...MS never intended to fully back HD-DVD. They backed it only as an add on. Had they truly backed HD-DVD then it would have been in the Xbox and honestly blu ray probably would have been killed off given the 1 yr head start the Xbox would have given it.

BUT... MS never really wanted HD-DVD to win, they merely wanted to halt the progress of Blu Ray and the PS3 for a while. I think MS was/is hoping that digital distribution catches on fast. They see it as the true future which it is...but its just a bit premature for the market.

More than likely MS's next box will have a blu ray drive in it that way it can play both new games needing the larger disc and older backwards compatible DVD games. That all said I suspect everything about that box will be more about digital download than disc.

[earbus]

I use my ps3 mainly for blu ray and dvd playback can someone tell me why the ps3 doesnt upscale the colour red well it looks bizzare , anyway 360 for games ps3 for movies ,
Most ps3 games dont appeal to me there all jap games with tranny haircuts.

[awi5951]

Look at the 360 updates able to use 16G usb drives for storage, Able to install any game onto the 360, and the 250G druve. The xbox has gone more and more pc this whole generation. The next xbox will be dvd and have full install of all games required with a massive harddrive. Blu ray is cool but all of pc games kicks ps3 butt in everyway and all the info is stored on the so called outdated dvd. My I7 with my outdated crossfired 1G 4870's with 12 G's of ram can run games that will make Ps3 explode into a firey mess. And my rig is outdated and needs to be upgraded.

Microsoft will make the xbox even more easy to developer for to by completely making it like a pc. If sony wanted to screw microsoft by putting linix in there console instead have having to pay microsoft anything. Microsoft isnt going to pay sony and screw them back there not putting in blu ray . They will buy the rights to HD DVD and have it be a xbox format exclusively if thats the case. But i bet the next xbox will have a massive hard drive with required game installs.

[devilhunterx]

XB3 will have a floppy disc, cause the fans can use the exercise with all that disc swapping

[JL]

Ok, am I the only one that noticed this part "it's the number 1 reason people buy a PS3"? I may be silly, but I could've swore the number 1 reason to buy a gaming console was to game. Especially nowadays when you can get a stand alone blu-ray player for much cheaper.

That being said, the logical choice IS for MS to suck it up and put in blu-ray next gen. But I don't think it's any secret that they do have an ego. And siding with blu-ray after all they've said and done would be rather embarrassing for them.

Then again, by time next-gen comes around, who's to say what options there will be. Hell, if we go by history, not even Sony will be using blu-ray in the PS4. They've changed it every generation, so why would next be any different. First it was CD, then DVD, now Blu-ray. For all we know both might be going Flash next-gen. I still think next-gen is a fairly good ways off, so there's no telling. If MS is smart they'll probably step up beyond blu-ray (like Sony will most likely be doing) and bypass that whole "you're still using last gen media formats" argument.

[Smootherkuzz]

New disc technology is on the way some can store min 20 single layer blu ray discs and designed to fit with the current optical media infrastructure, meaning it'ii be cheaper and easier to roll out. so blu now but sooner then you think even Sony is going to have to rethink their stand on blu ray. joy while it lasts, things change mighty fast these days.