Taking a closer look at Sony's 1770 word EULA, it is revealed that Sony has given themselves the right to update your PS3 firmware automatically, without your consent.
lol it's funny. I kind of figured they would do something like that so since the 3.21 update I disconnected my PS3 from the internet. No doubt they'll start putting updates on game discs now like the PSP.
I'm just interested to see where this custom firmware thing goes with the PS3 so figured I'd wait it out and not upgrade. Not really bothered by being offline. If it turns out to be whack and just adds other OS then I'll update officially. If it's actually a kick ass CFW that releases then I'm all over it.
Really? I guess I never noticed because I always updated. Thought it would be like the PSP where you see two sections under game: the game and the update of either you could click.
So I guess it's hidden and notifies you as the game boots you need to update?
As Nightwolf said, I remember getting a new ps3 and booting up Resistance i think, it prompted to update. Gladly did. Didn't bother making a psn account till a week or two later. I really wasn't into the online gaming other than my PC.
But the 360 and ps3 have definitely changed that. The only online console game i've played b4 that was SOCOM on ps2.
Sony now has the ability to come into my home and change settings and software on my property, without my consent, without my knowledge.
Worst of all, Sony will NOT take responsibility for any damage they do to my files, or even outright data loss.
Realistically, Sony should have addressed this with software security. Removing features is such a lazy solution. In addition, Sony has removed the sovereignty of any ps3 owner.
Fact is, you have no control over your system anymore. Sony will do what they want on your equipment, when they want, without telling you.
At the very least, they should take responsibility for damaging data. Yet, they don't. If they break it, somehow, it's your fault.
You can't even play Uncharted 2 without Firmware 3.15 or higher. That was the update that freed up the extra ram. Could you imagine playing a game with 90MB of ram missing?
Disclaimer: Not sure of the actual Firmware number or MB of freed up ram.
Those types of clauses are usually there to protect the company and is often written very broadly. Often times it unenforceable due to laws, but is snuck in the hope that:
a) the user will read the ToS and assume that they have no right to complain (although it might be otherwise under their country laws)
b) to be tested in a court of law in case the company can still get away with it
This applies to almost any company and any EULA, so it is technically fine that it is there since we all have accepted it all along. That still doesn't mean that the EULA is enforceable in full.
I think in the end as a consumer you have the power to be upset and make a big stink that will cost Sony a lot more in the long run in a variety of ways. That is why, I'm saddened that Sony fans have basically set a precedent that it is fine to remove features from a console in the name of security, when there is no real threat. Even if there is a threat, it shouldn't be the consumers that bear the loss.
What if Sony one day found out that people were pirating games over the USB port and thus disabled it for all users? What about if they removed the ability to read recorded Blu-Ray or DVD discs because you can pirate games with them?
This "Other OS" removal is no different except it affects fewer users! By not accepting the update, you are not only limited from using PSN, but also to play future PS3 games.
The machine essentially is no longer fit for the two purposes advertised at the time of purchase:
1. Play all PS3 games (PSN is a service, so they can modify features at will)
2. Use "Other OS" feature
People keep thinking that by not updating, you will be fine... reality is you can no longer play future PS3 games!
Consumers are clearly being stepped on all over by Sony!!!
yeah, that will lure lots of hits for sure especially here on N4G! I prefer the word "automatic" updates! which, for a legitimate consumer like me, is good! this has nothing over propriety hardwares like on the other console! so, for those who are complaining/whining, WTH is wrong with u guys? if you've been playing online on your PS3 for all these times, your PS3 is 100% updated and this is the same fvcking updates just automatically applied! - you know, so you can keep connecting your PS3 online and play online for FREE! this is not a problem at all except for those pesky pirates and those sheeps waiting for Geohot to come out with CFW! - good luck with THAT!
@above me..
that's one hell of absurd logic of yours! you keep saying "what if..." "what if...", "what if..." like it's the truth but removal of other OS has nothing to do with this!
imagine if you have a bank with an extra door for just for observation. and then some prick is using that extra door to plan a robbery! as the bank owner, you then know about the robbery plan! so, you have 2 options;
1. keep the extra door but tightens security! 2. seal that extra door completely! - or turn it into a wall!
any smart men will choose the 2nd option! it's more effective and easy and cheap! it might piss some people off but hey, who's planning on robbing? you wanna keep your property safe, right?
how much longer you wanna rub this removal of other OS issue to people's face? it's done and it won't come back ever again but life and gaming goes on! keep hating, the others will just updates and keep playing games!
Who the hell said anything about the 360. Why is it whenever something negative comes up about the PS3 you fanboys always have to run some sort of irrelevant 360 parallel?
If this was a Microsoft related article it would have lit up like a roman candle...EVIL MS...M$ Jerks...How dare they...blah blah blah. Yet Sony pulls something like this and we make excuses, deflect, call out trolling. You call one evil then you call BOTH evil cause as it was said earlier...they are both corporations looking for their next dollar. If you didn't have a dollar in your pocket they wouldn't give a damn about you...plain and simple. I think there are too many around here that treat these companies like surrogate parents...snap out of it.
It's not uncommon, when making an argument to site other examples.
We have plenty of examples of User Agreements like the one Sony has that no one has a problem with, but suddenly we're to believe it's an issue because it inconvenienced a select few? If you didn't like the user agreement, you shouldn't have agreed to it. If you didn't read the contract before you acknowledged your consent, who's fault is that?
And I'd like to think that if I'm a fanboy of anything (nice namecalling, by the way. You must be a hit at recess) I'm a fanboy of common sense. I own and game on both platforms (Gamertag's DarkrideHex66, say hi sometime). This has nothing to do with console loyalty or defending one company or another and has everything to do with people shouldn't use ignorance as an excuse for something. If you can't abide by the terms and conditions as outlined by these agreements, don't agree to them. No one is holding a gun to your head, but you're not going to get very far without consenting to these types of agreements.
My guess is you've already consented to this exact type of agreement already if you're using a PC with Windows to read these messages.
Seriously, I can't figure out you guys. A company moves to secure their service to protect themselves and their consumers from pirates, hackers and credit card thieves, thusly bringing their agreement more in line with what is already common in the industry and you'd think they just said they could come over and kick your dog at any time of the day. Reality checks are needed all around here.
I agree 100% with you say, and one thing I learned on N4G common sense is an automatic bad thing here. After the whole SSF4 fiasco I'm looking for another site, this is getting stupid.
I simply don't understand some of the simple minded Sony defenders on this site.
Sony has NOT given its users as choice in this matter. One MUST update the console, otherwise it becomes practically unusable.
After the update, SOny does NOT give the option of whether one would like to install updates. After the update, Sony does not give ANY options at all. After the update, Sony does whatever they feel like.
Unfortunately, the Windows analogy is wholly inappropriate. In fact, Windows retains ALL the freedoms that Sony has removed. That is the crux of the whole debate!
MS does NOT install Windows updates without your express permission. MS allows the user to retain the control over their entire operating system and what updates to run, or not. MS does not mess with ANYTHING on your computer, unless you give them permission. Most importantly, MS allows the user to REVERSE that permission, if the user so chooses.
Sony does not do that on the ps3. That's what this is all about.
This ain't rocket science, and quite logical. It seems so incredible that some users defend anything Sony with the most flawed analogies and metaphors one can imagine.
What is with every site trying to wring anything and everything they can out of this "new ToS" stuff? What's funny, is none of them are right and they look like absolute idiots because they keep failing to do their research. Watch this. I present to you the "new" section they talk about: "From time to time, SCE may provide updates, upgrades or services to your PS3™ system to ensure it is functioning properly in accordance with SCE guidelines or provide you with new offerings. [b]Some services may be provided automatically without notice when you are online[/b], and others may be available to you through SCE's online network or authorized channels. Without limitation, services may include the provision of the latest update or download of new release that may include security patches, new technology or revised settings and features which may prevent access to unauthorized or pirated content, or use of unauthorized hardware or software in connection with the PS3™ system. Additionally, you may not be able to view your own content if it includes or displays content that is protected by authentication technology. Some services may change your current settings, cause a loss of data or content, or cause some loss of functionality. It is recommended that you regularly back up any data on the hard disk that is of a type that can be backed up."
Now.....I present to you the old ToS ( http://us.playstation.com/s... -you'll notice the date at the start of the ToS that says it's version 4.0 from October 2008): "From time to time, it may become necessary for SCEA to provide certain content to you to ensure that PSN and content offered through PSN, your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system, the PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) system or other SCEA-authorized hardware is functioning properly in accordance with SCEA guidelines. [b]Some content may be provided automatically without notice when you sign into PSN[/b]. Such content may include automatic updates or upgrades which may change your current operating system, cause a loss of data or content or cause a loss of functionalities or utilities."
Well I'll be. Look at that. Even the old one says "automatic updates". Not "forceful". So...yet another site making up their own crap to try to get hits. Bad journalism. Old news turned into new conspiracies. Y'all really are mad at Sony for being top dogs huh.
By the way people, why does "automatic" necessarily have to be bad? How about they probably make it automatic just so they can improve the system but your console doesn't become non-functional due to you not updating? For instance, like somebody mentioned before the whole freed up RAM issue. Without that update you wouldn't be able to play games that have or will take advantage of that. Or when they add another universal feature, for instance custom soundtracks, then games won't act right on your system when developers implement that feature into their games if you weren't made to update to that firmware update (like devs ever use that feature though lol). And so on and so on. Automatic updates just ensure you stay up to date with the important things (and yes, so they can also help to try to prevent piracy). Get over it people, not EVERYTHING has to be twisted and spun to make it like Sony has evil intentions in everything they do. Christ you people are desperate.
Who cares?? As long as I can play games on my PS3 and continue to download DLC and stream I really don't care that's what I bought it for and that's why I continue to use it. Some people care too much about the little things.
People, as long as you are connected to the internet or play games on your console, companies can do this. Even the 360 won't let you play online games unless you have the most recent update running. Updates have come on discs since the 360 was released and have been on PS3 and 360 games ever since.
In the end, if you play games and watch BD movies legit then you have nothing to fear. It's not like they are coming into your home and violating you nor are they playing big brother. They are simply helping to prevent piracy and I am all for it. Piracy hurts us all in so many ways and I can't understand why people just don't get it.
even if you do have a PS3, doesn't make your flawed comparison by any mean valid! comparing a close platform to a PC is valid? come on! make some sense please!
Haven't turn on my ps3 since I finished GoW3. I have no intention on turning it back on since they don't have anything of interest to me. So F#%€ Sony and their update. Can't wait for the custom firmware.
You have a system that allows freedom, then people abuse that freedom so they crack down and people wonder why. At the end of the day Sony is a company in the business of making money, they are reactionary and if they see something that has potential to lose them revenue then they will take action. Classic case of a few bad apples ruining the bunch, blame these so called "hackers" for this ish. Just my take.
BTW, I update my FW all the time and didn't use another OS so I might have a limited perspective but I think my statement still holds a measure of logic.
That's the way I feel about drunk driving! People don't die from drunk driving, they die from stupid driving. People are just more likely to drive stupid when they are drunk. Many millions of people drive drunk everyday and don't kill anyone, but because a few idiots can't control themselves, the rest of us have to suffer.
I've been in a car with drunk drivers many times, I've been in a few accidents, but I've never been in both at the same time!
@5.0- Exactly. Sony is a corporation that potentially faces a loss of revenue. As with any for-profit organization, they will work out the 'kinks' to maximize their profit. Microsoft does this, Sony does this, and Nintendo does this. It's business (and yes, it is a shame in my opinion).
That is one of the worst analogies and points I have ever seen. You don't even need an analogy here. Sony made a toy with features. There were a few features that if abused enough would cause problems for everyone involved. It happened to be a few features that were completely new and seldom used by the majority of users. They decided to take some of those features away knowing that the potential damage far, and I do mean far, outweighed the upfront issue. Too bad, so sad. Next time you should tell your friends to stop acting like morons BEFORE you lose your allowance.
this is a good decision. The only reason to not upgrade is if a particular firmware is glitched in the begining. This helps stop piracy in the end. GeoHotz thinks he is too hot for his own sh**. Corporation vs 1 nieve man, corporation wins.
So what?!!? The only people that really care about this are young kids who expect everything in their lives to be handed to them anyway...Talk about spoiled. I like how way worse things existed way before this but most are just too young to know any better...cough...90's telecom act...cough...
Sony made the console and they have full control of what they want to do with it. They dont need your consent to update thier console in the same way a video game does not need your consent to patch and expoiltable glitch. Be happy Sony gives you the courtesy of having optional updates,
my psp is still 1.5 enabled.never updated.but i understood why sony did the updates.but i would hate losing the ability to play all the old school games on it.so i never changed it.but i never downloaded the umd games on it.but i missed out on a lot of umd games and only have those i bought before the updates began.but old school was more important.
but as for ps3,i don't mind.sony made it almost unhackable.the only reason i used things like the gameshark and swap magic,was to play japanese games.but this time,sony didn't lock any region out.so i don't care what they do.for the ones saying sony will take something else,that's just foolish talk.
"they are going to take bluray next".........
get the f#ck out of here.
the system wont be able to play games without it.bluetooth is used by the controllers.hdmi is being used for the 3D update.the usb ports are for charging and the pseye.the HDD is being upgraded by them every new version release.the only thing they could take is remote play.but they WANT YOU to **USE** that too.
either play along and deal with it,or sell your system.or leave it offline and miss out on important firmware and psn store content.
but we know who are really whining about all this.for those that did use linux...hey...these are the breaks.but it's the same as people who whine about not getting ps2 playback.those poeple should have spent the $600 dollars to get it.but i doubt most even use ps2 playback.but we know who complained about it the most.if sony killed that function,then i would be pissed.but linux was not related to gameplay or online.so i doubt they would do that either.
but i know it isn't ps3 fans playing killzone,uncharted and such complaining right now.
wtf is going on with sony? updates are supposed to be a good thing cause its supposed to be an "update" not "downgrade" sh!t sooner or later sony will water down the ps3 to the wii's level! actually.... (thinking about move) maybe thats the plan?
Oh well, people that sit back and let it happen deserve it! I hope that someday people will learn, but I don't have very high hopes for it! Little by little we are going to lose freedoms and it really makes me wonder when people will wake up and realize it! Companies and the government pretty much own us now and nobody gives a damn! It is so sad it is hilarious at this point!! :)
i cant remember micro taking out features through updates if anything they been adding to it but i can be wrong, care to prove me wrong?
i really dont care about the whole os thing all i care about is the games and blu ray movies as long as i can continue to play both with no problem im good.. i dont buy pirated games and dont plan on modding my ps3's insides. if my girl would let me (just need more time to convince) i would just change the case, she wont let me cause i fvcked up my 360 1nc.
however, just cause i have no need for otherOS doesnt mean that i like the idea that my console is being downgraded with each update. think about it, i paid $500 at the time with all those things. thats like my boy selling me something then coming back a month later saying you know what i know i sold you that basketball hoop but it was a bad idea giving you the ball with it so i want it back. its not the end of the world big deal but its still a fvck you "moment"..
edit
thinking about it more, shouldnt i get some kind of refund? even if its just 3 bucks i can put it towards a game.
Theirs one problem MS did take off features with there updates remember the blades main menu on 360 at one point then they launch Xbox live new experience that made 360 main menu worster then the blades system.
And updates dont bother me one bit because its not like im paying to use PSN. Id understand if I were paying for PSN then this would sound really messed up on sony's part but I aint paying for jack sh!t so its not a problem, oh & did I mention that most ps3 exclusives use dedicated servers for ps3 owners to enjoy their free online expirience for PSN even more.
Why not wake up and create a class action suit against Sony in order to sue them into oblivion? That should wake them up nicely! I can tell you one thing for sure! They don't give a damn what the customer wants!!!
Here is your chance! Tell us what the customer wants! Does the customer want Linux? Does the customer want stolen credit card information? Does the customer want to lose his title as customer and just pirate PS3 games? Tell us now!
I just wanted CFW so I can play all the psx games PSN does not have. OR maybe I just dont feel like paying 10 bucks for FF8 even though I have the disc.
Only scammers trolls and idiots will complain about this. I dont mind honestly they are doing me a favor because my fat ass is to lazy to update it my damn self. Thank you sony ^_^ now if the ps3 can make some hot wings i shall love you forever ^_^
*Disconnects Internet*
No it doesn't.
even if your ps3 isnt hooked up too the Internet if you buy a new game that needs a new firmware,it comes packaged with the game.
Them sneaky bastich
oh noooooooooooeeeeeeeeesssssssss
95% of you update right away anyways, saves you time stop your *itchin