Naughty Dog Dev: "DX12 Won't Be A Game Changer on XOne But Huge Step Forward In PC CPU Performance"

Naugty Dog graphics Programmer shares his view on Direct X12 benefits for Xbox One and Stardock CEO Wardell further clarifies few more things about DX12 and Mantle comparison.

[NextLevel]

Everyone knows this asides from a few people who just won't give it up in keeping the faith in the holy bottle of secret sauce that will vault the Xbox One up to the level of the PS4's.

That's said, any little improvement it brings is good. It just won't be massive.

[jmac53]

Yep that secret hidden GPU and the cloud that will increase the power tenfold!

[xHeavYx]

Even Phil Spencer said this

[NextLevel]

Phil Spencer Xbox Chief

"Phil Spencer: DirectX 12 Not a “Massive Change” For Xbox One; Explains Expectations from 1st Party Studios"

http://www.dualshockers.com...

"It will help developers on XBOX One. It’s not going to be a massive change but will unlock more capability for devs."

Exactly what ND said, so people can stop using the "they're Playstation developers" argument to try to deflect their statement.

[ShinMaster]

For those of you who didn't read. Naughty Dog was asked the question. They didn't go out seeking attention.

[NextLevel]

@MorePowerOfGreen

"Looks like damage control. There is no doubt as MSFT prepares to release the DX12 preview this year and the fact 3rd party devs are working on it now, dev must be going to Sony saying what are you going to do to match this DX12 tech with our games because we want to push this tech on XB1 and we are seeing issues with your platform in the future. "

http://38.media.tumblr.com/...

[mikeslemonade]

Such a big box the X1 is but isn't even as strong as the PS4. That's dissapointing. Should have made a stronger box charge more money.

I didn't have a problem with the $600 PS3.

I think consoles should have been $500 and $600. That's about threshold where you get a value in the performance without breaking the bank. Less then that you get weaker systems and more than that you get marginal returns.

[DigitalRaptor]

@ MPOG

"There is no doubt as MSFT prepares to release the DX12 preview this year and the fact 3rd party devs are working on it now, dev must be going to Sony saying what are you going to do to match this DX12 tech with our games because we want to push this tech on XB1 and we are seeing issues with your platform in the future."

That looks like damage control of this ( http://www.dualshockers.com... ) to me.

Your dedication to hopeful delusion is astounding.
-------

"Happy their supposed more powerful console is selling more but angry and frustrated XB1 offers more innovation and games)"

1) It's not "supposed". It's cold, hard reality.
2) "Innovation" in non-gaming, and bad AI in Titanfall? Keep it.
3) PS4 has more games than Xbone, from a diverse array of properties and styles, and it always will.
-------

"XB1 will leapfrog PS4's performance I make a bet on that(Yes with software and remote processing from servers)"

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAA.

Oh god... you're serious. http://i1069.photobucket.co...

[ziggurcat]

@MPoG:

*ahem*

"What is with people on this site needing to slam a piece of plastic like their toy is better than other toys? Tracking and trolling news/plastic that doesn't affect their real lives?"

http://n4g.com/comments/red...

pot. kettle. black... yet again.

first of all, no one has been spinning what Spencer said. they've only been saying, "i told you so" because he confirmed exactly what people have been telling you for months.

"It's almost comical to see Sony and supporters react to this tech."

yup... telling you it's not going to be the thing you thought it was going to be is comical?

http://i.imgur.com/yDFzgj9....

what's comical is the delusion, and goalpost moving that goes on every time someone at MS shoots down any rumour related to the xbone's tech.

"I see people posting *Dual GPU* etc etc in a desperate attempt to paint rumor in which MSFT never said"

of course you would since you subscribe to misterx's brand of kool-aid... or did you just call yourself, and all your friends over there desperate?

"XB1 will leapfrog PS4's performance I make a bet on that"

how, exactly? what's the wager?

[Eonjay]

@MorePowerOfGreen

You are fighting an uphill battle against Phil Spencer and Naughty Dog. You should at least have more faith in the words of the Xbox boss.

[k3rn3ll]

Im not saying I dont believe the ND developer. Because I do believe him. Butdoes anyone here really believe that if it was a boost for xbox he would say so? Do we think sony would allow their employees to mention anything positive about the opposition? Especially since sony execs so openly bash MS every chance the get?

Once again I believe the ND coder and I dont think this will make the xbox 200% more powerful. But If It helps devs with api cool. But this is really poor journalism at its finest getting top 5 views on this site. Maybe I can get a real solid truthful opinion from Coca Cola about if Pepsi new carbonation process will make pepsi better. I am under an NDA at my job that prevents me from promoting competing products. Luckily Im only 1of the 400,000 employees they have to worry about and dont have any reporters asking me shit or putting my name in artocles. But it would be kinda cool lol. Damn you Taiwanese shareholders! !!!!!!! Haha

[xActionBasturdx]

Im not pro-MSFT or pro-SONY but the fact that people have so much faith in msft and the power of the cloud is going to change anything irritates me. The cloud will be used for nothing more than A.I calculations...which goes out the window if you dont have internet. And truthfully after playing titanfall for a while they didnt even get that right. So what are you guys really expecting from cloud computing?

[Sevir]

LOL, I have to laugh at these Xbox fans getting upset at what a DEVELOPER is saying, especially when its deemed negative against the XBO.

SERIOUSLY! This is coming from arguably the INDUSTRY'S BEST DEVELOPERS. They Work on the ICE team and develop various technologies that (are tailored to the PS4) is DERIVED from STANDARD PC CODE which ALSO PROLIFERATES OTHER CONSOLES.

On the ICE TEAM website it clearly states. EXPERTISE with "Direct X_" which is widely used in PC and XBO/XB360 development...

They may work exclusively on tailoring tech to PS platforms but they have worked on XBO/XB/XB360 and PC. So when they SPEAK, the Industry LISTENS. They've consistently delivered the BEST games of the last 7 years in gaming to resounding success and acclaim, on Technical levels and have set TRENDS and BENCHMARKS for others in the Industry to follow.

These Developers aren't Fanboys, they HAVE experience on other platforms and the own multiple platforms other than PS which they tinker with to bring the latest technologies over to PS platform.

Every XBO doubles as a debug unit for building games and These guys probably run tests on that all the time to see what they can extract that works and bring it over to the PS.

Besides, what he's saying isn't wrong or untrue.
He's echoed exactly what Phil Spencer, the head of XBOX, said just last week. PC's will have the biggest benefit from this because its providing CONSOLE LEVEL OPTIMIZATIONS to the PC platform... DTX12 is a step forward for PC in the SAME WAY MANTLE has been for the PC. The XBO will Benefit by virtue because it uses Direct X as part of its APIs.

I don't understand how people LIKE MPOG and TRUEFAN or GEORGNOOB believe that a machine with 1.3 TFLOPs of performance is going to magically match and supersede a machine with 1.84TFLOPS by virtue of a software update?

1.3 TFLOPS in performance will ALWAYS be 1.3 TFLOPS no software update is going to PUSH that performance cap any higher than its threshold. It will ONLY allow to machine to use its resources more efficiently with more overhead to do more with its cap. Performance optimizations. That's all it is.

And ND developers commenting on it when they were asked about it isn't bad.

As Phil Said. Keep your expectations realistic. The improvements in developing XBO will happen as its still only 6 months on the market and developers are getting better at getting around its limitations but thinking 1.3 is going to become better than or equal to 1.84 by way of software optimization is not only silly its delusional and psychotic.

XBO was stuck with a less powerful GPU, The ONLY way it could get past the PS4 in performance is if MS redesigns the entire system and includes a more powerful GPU. CASE in POINT. THAT ISN"T HAPPENING

[MysticStrummer]

"It's almost comical to see Sony and supporters react to this tech."

Almost comical? Try looking at it from a Sony fan's perspective. The subject is much funnier that way.

MS fans damage controlling things Spencer himself has said…

Good times are these.

[UltraNova]

@MorePowerOfGreen

....? Jesus Christ...?

[GarrusVakarian]

@ MPOG

You just typed the word 'Sony' SEVENTEEN times in your comment. You typed 'MSFT' FOUR times.

You sit there and accuse people being scared and not being able to drop things, yet that is describing yourself perfectly. I'm not going to sit here and quote you tons of times like everyone else, im tired of that garbage now....but MY GOD, you are the most delusional, bitter, hateful and mentally warped individual i have EVER came across on a website. I genuinely feel sorry for how much the PS4 and it's fans have mentally affected you.

You should really stay away from this site and just play some damn games.....you are a textbook example of someone who gets too emotionally attached to a company and their product.

[herbs]

The PS4 is getting a similar update for its DX equivalent, I forgot what its called Sony Shader Model 9 or somthing? The performance gap might narrow a bit but both consoles will be improving even without the Kinect it isn't going to give Microsoft parity.

[deepio]

What I tend to see here is a small number of people claiming DX12 being a game changer and a large number of people coming in to denounce it. You really think you're gonna change these peoples minds?

Personally I don't think it is a game changer, the X1 already uses some DX12 features. However I do believe it will help developers. Shouldn't we just be happy with that? Too much emphasis is put into the power of these consoles. It's more important that MS concentrate on the exclusives. That's what I'm in for, and I suspect the vast number of X1 owners are also. If DX12 doesn't make a massive difference, so be it. Halo, Gears, that's what I'm in for.

[ziggurcat]

@ deepio:

the thing is, though, the argument has never been that DX12 is useless for xbone... the argument has always been that DX12 will benefit PC *more* than it will benefit xbone (evidenced when it was known that xbone already used some of the features in DX12).

so that's not so much of a denouncement than it was offering a reality check to those who thought it would be a "game changer."

[UltimateMaster]

It's Naughty DOG who SAID thiz!
TheYr FaNbOys! ~ says ecstatic Xbox troll.
Even if Phil Spencer said so himself.

[Eonjay]

But lets not make this all about Xbox One either.

As the Article states PC gamers have a stake in this too. I am really hopeful. I am hoping to get a nice boost in performance from my PC. Mostly higher FPS from less CPU latency. I have the 8320(Black Series 8 core). I can't wait to see what kind of boost I get.

[Software_Lover]

The only people that keep "talking up" DX 12 bringing the XBone up to the PS4 level, on N4G atleast, are 2-3 guys. Yet, you still see more Sony fanboys in the articles. Even when someone says it's not gonna bring major changes.

Will it bring changes to XBone, yes. How so? It will make porting PC games easier.

[Eonjay]

I'm here because I have a PC and also because the Naughty Gods are speaking.

[kanyewesting]

Are we going to ignore reports PS4 was going to do an upgrade like dx12? Or are they exempt because they're sony?

[NextLevel]

"The only people that keep "talking up" DX 12 bringing the XBone up to the PS4 level, on N4G atleast, are 2-3 guys."

Maybe here.

http://www.neowin.net/news/...

http://xboxonedaily.com/201...

http://news.softpedia.com/n...

http://indefiniterespawn.co...

http://twthereddragon.com/x...

http://gearburn.com/2014/04...

[XiYakushijuAkeginuXi]

@ Software_Lover

Unless you have short term memory, or have not been around during this time. 2-3 people is a VERY low estimate

http://n4g.com/news/1478490...

Look at those comments and compare that to your list of 2-3 people

[Flutterby]

Maybe you could use a calculator , I know of at least 14 users that have been saying dx12 will be a game changer, I guess maybe you just don't see them because you spend most of your time trying to call out Sony fans.

[Software_Lover]

Wow, you guys/gals are so.......... sad.

1st) NextLevel, read my post. I said ON N4G. NOT EVERY OTHER SITE IN THE WORLD.

2)whatever the hell your name is, multiple accounts don't count. Most people on here seem to have 3+ accounts. I can tell by their writing style. Like I said 2-3 guys.

3)Flutterby......... gamechanger, and up to PS4 levels are 2 different things. A "gamechanger" can be something like a pc game taking 2 months to port to the XBone instead of one year.

[kayoss]

When have we ever question a developer who have the reputation to use the consoles full potential to develope their games? If this was activision saying this, I would not even listen. This is naughty dog, naughty dog.

[imt558]

Well, if some Xbone fans think that Naughty Dog does not know shit about DX API, WHY THEY HAVE Corinne Yu who worked heavily with DX API ( for example )?

One of the recommended skills if you wanna have career in Naughty Dog :

Requirements and Skills

- Decent 3D math skills (especially linear algebra and vector math)
- Familiarity with OpenGL, DIRECTX, or other rendering APIs
- Extensive experience with C++, C#, and Windows Forms
- B.S. in Computer Science and/or equivalent work experience
- Self-motivated individual with excellent problem solving skills
- Detail oriented
- Good oral and written communication skills
- FAMILIARITY WITH CONSOLE OR PC VIDEO GAME PROGRAMMING *Preferred*
- Shipped a commercial tool running on Windows platforms *Preferred*
- GUI art/design skills *Preferred*

I'm pretty sure that Naughty Dog has a lot of programmers who worked with DX API before.

[dcbronco]

@nextlevel

You know who won't give up talking about DX12? Naughty Dog. They can't go a week without a comment. Which would leave any thinking person to believe this is Sony using it's most trusted studio to launch a preemptive PR strike. And as usually the fan boys will devour and grin regardless of what they see.

Edit: Another thing Sony fans are ignoring. ND admits it's a huge leap for CPU performance. I'm pretty sure Microsoft put one of those in the Xbox One. And it happens to be the same type found in PCs. So by default DX12 would provide a huge leap forward for that CPU also. And Phil Spencer was just acting coy probably. No need to blab everything so early.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

What I love is "we asked the Naughty Dog developers what they thought of DX12 on Xbox One"... my response I could give a flying F what ND thinks about it since THEY DONT DEVELOP FOR IT.

It's like asking an airplane pilot what he thinks about flying a helicopter is like. Unrelated and stupid.

Gamepur asking all the wrong people. Why not contact someone at 343i, Black Tusk or maybe Lionhead? Nope, we will go ask someone who hasn't touched the Xbox One hardware what they think. Brilliant! /s

[dcbronco]

One last thing Nextlevel. Familiarity with something doesn't make you an expert on it. Especially since ND hasn't used DX in almost 10 years.

[bigbic]

ND is being realistic, they are saying it wont be as big of a deal as people are making it seem! ND clearly knows a thing about tools, programming, designing game engines etc at ICE... And yet just because they make Sony games and wont call DX12 a super powerful game changer on X1 people get upset.

I guess we should all just live in Microsoft's PR dream land and never logically consider level headed thinking on the subject of all these game changers Microsoft has.

[sinspirit]

@Dlacy13g

Well, if you actually knew anything about API's and DirectX you would know they know what they're talking about.

Phil Spencer even commented saying something similar.

It's not at all unrelated. Both systems have API's that use the exact same "to the metal" optimization that DX12 is designed for on PC. Consoles get performance tweaks in updates. That is something that already happens over time. DX12 is only going to bring a performance tweak to X1 if at all, but should bring a big difference to PC. Consoles already have had this optimization for decades. This isn't difficult for anyone to grasp so long as you're moderately interested and keep up with software and hardware.

Uh. Why contact anyone on Microsoft's 1st party studios, when Microsoft has had a lot of misleading PR, and Phil Spencer, head of the XBox division, has already clarified the minuscule difference it brings to X1? I'm not saying this to be offensive or tout about a systems power. It's just stating the facts and observation.

[dcbronco]

Sin you're ignoring one obvious omission, neither PCs or consoles have been optimized for use on multiple CPU cores. Or l should say APIs. DX12 will now do that. Even ND admits it will be big for CPUs. No matter what you are a fan of, you can't ignore that blaring fact. And the CPU does play a major role in the ability of the machine. Based on the Build demo, it will, and ND, that will be huge. Because up until now, the first core has done the vast majority of the work.

[sinspirit]

@dcbronco

Yes.. They have. They call it parallel processing. The PS3 does it. It's not quite the same but it is a different way to organize the information to process it on multiple SPU's more efficiently.

All the CPU optimization was simply done by the developers in the past. X1 already has most of DX12's features. It's a modified DX11, and DX12 is basically that modified version but transferred to PC.

Oh, god.. The first core does the vast majority of the work? That's a PC thing, not console.

You keep missing the point. DX12 is a big thing on PC. Not console. It will tweak the X1 a little, but it already has that level of optimization.

Again, PC is the only one getting a substantial boost. Phil Spencer has said this. Naughty Dog is saying this because they know how API's and consoles work.

[dcbronco]

@Sinspirit

The Cell did it poorly. Just like the previous APUs from AMD. These APU are better at it and, like you said, make it easy. But to do it you need multiple options to send info. Look at the design of the chip in One. It looks like it was the plan from day one.

As far as everyone touting ND's ability. Sure, they are very good. But to pretend they are far and away better than everyone else is a joke. Many said 1080p would be rare on One, yet newer games seem to be. And if ND is as great as so many seem to believe, why didn't they do this first? It would seem something like this would be of great use to them as well.

[sinspirit]

Oh, god no.. The Cell didn't do parallel processing bad whatsoever. It was a master at it. The problem was that this means standard data can't simply be run through and be expected to be efficiently processed. Developers had a learning curve of how to code data to properly take advantage of parallel processing.

Uh. 1080p would be rare on one? Well, so far very few games are doing it, and the ones that are doing it aren't exactly pushing any graphical bars.

[Darkstares]

Does this mean Naughty Dog will be making games on the PC now? If not I'm not so sure why they would bother to comment.

[bigbic]

Because they are very highly regarded figures on the subject of tools and engines with team ICE. People in the industry listen when they talk about optimization and such.

Team ICE programmers have wide knowledge in all industry standard graphics including DirectX, per their job requirements for a programmer of team ICE on their website.

[Darkstares]

Regardless, until you actually use these tools on the XB1 and PC it is hard to estimate what the real benefits are. Heck, even they don't know what the PS4 is capable of until years later. We've seen what they did on the PS3 from game to game and that was the system they worked on. You're always learning new tricks and ways to optimize the hardware and these guys are not working with DX12 as far as I know.

[Hardcore_gamerxbox]

Please tell me since when ND start working on DX12 i would call this BS if it was from someone who worked on DX12 i would except it why don't you ask a DEV like 343i instead of asking a DEV only for worked for Sony . I'm not saying ND isn't talented but I'm afraid I'm gonna call their opinion about DX12 pure BS

[larrysdirtydrawss]

il repeat what I said earlier, I think they(nd) get the idea of how it works and what its about based of what ms said and showed/slides/details ect...most agree its for the pc with small benefits to the xone.. and if that doesn't count,one of the higher ups at ms recently said don't expect anything major from it

XiNarutoUzumaki + 1h ago

Didn't read Lol

denial?

[Flutterby]

They said the same thing as Phil Spencer the head of xbox , so do you believe him ?

DX12 is a pc booster it will make it "console like" as they have said hundreds of times, so what do you think that means ??? Consoles already have the benefits it brings , therefore not much more will be boosted by it on console. I feel like I have to explain this to a simian Its not that hard to understand.

[FanboyKilla]

Lol ND talking shi* about their comp. Lmao who would listen to a guy talking about the guy he is in comp with. Have some class geesh. If i was a ps fan id be ashamed. Shouldnt they be more worried about getting their fans some games. Is this why i wont be playing the order no time soon because you are on the net posting about ms. Smh thats so female, hell maybe it was a female i hope so. This isnt ther first time i heard someone from sony, say it wont do much. It will be doing more though right? Its going to help right? Then whats wrong sony fans? Dx12 got more press than sonys games. Of course the guy that doesnt have it is going to say its nothing.

I dont see any articles where ms is saying aaaaa ps now aint nothing. You insecure hater. The truth is your ps will not evolve like the xone, sony knows this and doesnt want you to know. My xone has gotten better since launch, and will continue to, like dx12. My ps 4 on the other hand seems like its alergic to updates, and progression. Hell my wii u has better software than my ps4. It already has you tube uploads and of course the app. Ps4 is a shell of ps3, and that wasnt even good.

Ps4 definitely has potential, but sadly i dont think it will ever reach it, because of its fans. sonys fans are sonys worst nightmare. Yes mamn every thing they do, because they
dont want to look bad against xbox. A i have a p4 and xone its to late for that.

Cmon sony fans send me your id. Lets play all the awesome ps4 titles i cant seem to find. Maybe im pressing the wrong buttons, maybe you can help me find the button that turns it into this awesome machine you have. Mines not working.

[XiNarutoUzumaki]

Didn't read Lol

[sinspirit]

Yes. The fans will magically keep some of the worlds most talented game developers from pushing PS4's potential. Confirmed.

They were just providing their honesty, observation, and expertise in the software field, as well as basically saying what Phil Spencer has already talked about. So, you can't exactly call this biased, when it's the truth. Or, do you think they should hype it up and lie about its performance increase so it won't somehow be biased?

When I saw someone named "FanboyKilla" I didn't think they would commit suicide. Ba dum tss.

[Gozer]

sinspirit

Do you honestly expect a sony employee to give MS good PR?

[Flutterby]

@gozer

All they did was confirm what the head of xbox has already said ffs , jeez some people are dense.

[Sevir]

@Gozer They have always done it in the past!

When Bungie was owned by MS, ND actually invited them over to their studio to help develop Uncharted 2 and provide feed back.

Shuhei has given plenty of credit to Microsoft and Nintendo and have even given great recommendations to Phil Spencer and Phil Harrison over at MS's Xbox Division. So your argument is rather moot.

[valet_Smerdyakov]

"LOL, MS developers praising an MS API!" You see it works both ways... And don't forget your favorite exclamation when someone doubts these claims:

Armchair developer!

[BG11579]

Gozer@ At this point ND is just agreing with what Spencer said last week. Just in case you didn't know, Phil Spencer doesn't work for Sony.

[showtimefolks]

this was reprted few weeks ago, i remember reading a article like this.

one quick question to yech guys:

will DX12 only help xbox one? aren't both ps4 and xbox one almost identical when it comes to what's inside the machine? so whatever help/boost xbox one receives, won't ps4 receives the same?

[Infamazdre]

343 Industries Dev says ps4 will never boost in performance but pc will... This article fails with the title NEWS FLASH NAUGHTY DOG WORKS FOR SONY!!!!! THEY DON'T EVEN MAKE PC GAMES! STFU NAUGHTY DOG. phil Spencer already told us it will help with development it's whole purpose is to improve development on whatever platform it's on it improves it. Wtf is so hard to understand about that?

[lfc_4eva]

@Infamazdre
First person I've seen actually state the facts.
DX12 will not bring huge performance benefits, but will bring some.
Its the ease of development which will make devs life a whole lot easier. And when development goes well, they have way more time to fine tune their games before release. Benefits all round.
ND might have a clue as to what DX12 does, but they certainly don't have insider knowledge in exactly how it works.

[valet_Smerdyakov]

How dare you doubt what a developer states? You xbox armchair developer!

[marcofdeath]

Well for the record, PS4 has not passed the two games that use parts of DX12. FMS5 that did not use all 100% of the GPU, and FH2. So how in the hell Naughty Dog knows is out right BS, again.

[otherZinc]

@the Naughty Dog guy,

Work on your game:
Make The Last Of Us 2 campaign co-op,
Make Uncharted 4 campaign co-op,
Stop making TLOU & Uncharted so linear,
Make single player have replay value,
Make the multiplayer have a good Horde Mode,
And stop talking about what M$ is doing with its console that you aren't making a game for.

[valet_Smerdyakov]

They merely politely answered a question.

Stop talking about games you didn't and can't play.

[Dehnus]

@Valet,
No Sony is back on PS2 levels of arrogance. They did NOT answer the question politely they again fanned the fanboy fire as we are used to from them if you are an older gamer. Sony did NOT learn shit from the PS3 they just keep doing this crap over and over no matter how toxic it is to gaming culture.

People are SICK of the fanboys of both sides, that is also what Phil Spencer said. It creates a crappy culture, toxic forums and a very annoying place to be involved in. Some people are even starting to give up on gaming all together. It also doesn't make us look good because those Idiot fanboys make a mockery of us all (Both Sony and Microsoft).

And I DO NOT CARE! Who did ti first! I do not care! What kindo f "LOL LOOK AT THIS SEE THEY DO IT TO!" Or whatever kindergarten reason they have to keep a grudge for years or to oterwhise compare pixels. I was bloody sick of it, same with the PS3 vs 360 crap that Digital foundry fanned all the time for more hits on their website!

It is detrimental to the industry, it is detrimental to the culture and it is detrimental to our image.

But rather than say :"Sorry no comment, we work for Sony not Microsoft"... Sony just HAD to fan it again.

Seriously... adult men acting like this. Nintendo and SEGA atleast kept it on the bloody playgrounds!

[FernGully]

@ OtherZinc,

I agree whole-heartedly with "valet_Smerdyakov" It must've burned you inside to no end to see all those Game of the Year awards given to a Sony Exclusive huh OTHERZINC? Did it hurt you mate? Huh? What about March, April and May sales mate. You were quieter then a skin head at a Puff Daddy concert when you saw those numbers. Many tears flowed, didn't they. This guy is console racist. Doesn't matter if Microsoft is losing in sales harder then a mother; He wont acknowledge it. Hell probably change his argument to something ignorant like..."Sony had to fire people.(say in a baby voice)" LOL!!! When are you going to buy a 2nd game besides FORZA 5 mate? Aw, I forgot you too get to play old games this holiday season like the Sony guys you criticize on! Except your last-gen ports are From 3-12 years ago! Please just acknowledge ALL of the consoles have flaws! Ill send you $50 threw PayPal if you can say 1 bad thing about the XBONE mate! $50.00!!! You cant do it cant you mate? (Goes and pre-orders) TLOU with the $50.00)

[mediate-this]

While agree with some of what you say, i gotta disagree with one thing, what level is ps4 at? Its a little more powerful than x1, nothing to vault too, i got both systems and to me they both are garbage atm.

I play ultra streetfighter atm, nothing to play on these next gen systems. I really think they rushed to retail, sony needed to cause ps4 is their saving grace micro need to catch sony.

[otherZinc]

@FernGully,

What GOTY awards have a PS4 game won? Please.

Besides, no ones buying any PS4 Exclusives since you want to talk sales. Forza Motorsport 5 & Dead Rising 3 outsold Killzone:SF, your shooter. I have more games than Forza Motorsport 5, its just a fact of the fantastic replay value it offers that no PS4 game has. NPD.

I know you don't want to talk facts like:
SONY laying off employees in every division within SONY Games.
SONY having to cut salary from top to bottom & sell off assets just to disguise a $12 profit for each PS4 sold. Now, with that massive cost cutting measure, where will SONYs PS4 get its profits from in holiday 2014?: Meanwhile the XBOX ONE is profitable, making $71 per console.

Exclusive software is where you make your money: you think,
LBP 3, Drive Club, & last years TLOF is going to do it? No, me either!

Forza Horizon 2 will kill Drive Club,
Sunset Overdrive will kill LBP 3
& Halo MCC will kill every PS4 exclusive by itself including last years TLOU.

Hay, what happened to the power of the PS4?
Why does Drive Club have invisible walls?
Why is Drive Club not launching with weather effects?
Why is Drive Club only launching with 50 cars?
Why does damage not effect driving?
Why is Drive Club not open world?
What is Drive Club offering?

I thought "anonymous devs" said the PS4 was "50%" more powerful than the XBOX ONE...wtf happened?

Talk is cheap, Drive Club is nothing compared to Forza Horizon 2.

Drive Club ran for an entire year from the 1080p 60fps Forza Motorsport 5; and lil brother Forza Horizon 2 chased Drive Club down to lay "The Smack Down"!

[GamerWIP]

Hey nextlevel bubble me up with your 100+ accounts. Love to have a few. Thanks

[Azzanation]

Tell me, how does ND know? Phil said its not a massive difference but claimed it will help and unlock more for the X1. Listening to a developer without knowledge is kind of stupid.

[jetlian]

next level has gained 3 bubbles in 3 days! on an account less than 2 weeks old. somebody is boosting him up.

only time will tellon this whole dx12

[Am-No-Hero]

lol ..

Man ND is showing the fans the truth about the DX12 , even Phil did tell us that the DX12 will not be that massive on X1 but PC will get the whole thing

[GodGinrai]

I know man...Sony devs clearly know more about its implication for X1 than MS devs.

They know programming, But I am not a fan of devs talking about tools they dont use. I think they should just stick to talking about PS dev tools and what improvements they are making in those areas.

[Kayant]

"Sony devs clearly know more about its implication for X1 than MS devs" - Well clearly not to a absolute extend but they are experienced devs and have friends at other studios so they would know the generally implications especially when their is also mantle to look at as well.

Now on the MS what have MS devs said on it apart from Turn10 giving a talk and explaining the DX12 features they used on XB1 with Forza 5, what pending features are left to come and MS's blog stating how they are bringing console-efficiency to PC which is already available on XB1 today without any implications about what the rest of the features when added to XB1's DX11.X will bring? There devs haven't said much.

I do agree with the rest of what you said though.

[AngelicIceDiamond]

I forgot ND doesn't program for PC but he is using common sense on the matter.

[GodGinrai]

"Now on the MS what have MS devs said on it apart from Turn10 giving a talk and explaining the DX12 features they used on XB1 with Forza 5"

@Kayant

They have said very little about it to us as the consumers. And why should they? It will only get twisted into something else.Exagerated as some claim of technical superiority by some random blog/game site looking for hits off N4G...while giving fanboys something else to gloat over on N4G... Better they say nothing and let the games show the improvements if they are as notable as a portion of internet articles about it say, they could be...otherwise..there is nothing that needs to be said.

I am taking a wait and see approach to it all to be honest.

And I stand by what say about Devs talking about software tools that they have no experience with or will ever use in a professional/commercial capacity. Im sure ND have an opinion on it, but they would be better off keeping that in professonal circles...whether true or not,why do they feel the need to reassure PS fans that there will be no benefits to DX12 on X1? why cant they just say..."hey weve been working on tools that are going to further enhance the visual quality of PS4 games"...why do they HAVE to talk about DX12?

[AshleeEmerson]

I think they should continue talking about whatever is relevant to them. Is directx12 relevant? Yes, the same way Xbox one is relevant to them. It's their industry DX12 information is good to know for us also. Hype and all that other crap is what keeps this site and hundreds of others chugging along.

Besides, I'm pretty sure Naughty Dog knows a few things about APIs :) and DX12 isn't that radical of a change. Much like gamers moving from last to this generation. New interface, new features, bells and whistles but all in all we know what we're buying. A more capable gaming system.

[Kayant]

@GodGinrai

"They have said very little about it to us as the consumers. And why should they?" - Just one thing the info that has been available to us wasn't presented for consumers. You can look at my post below. All the info that has been released is in technological terminology.

"Exagerated as some claim of technical superiority by some random blog/game site looking for hits off N4G...while giving fanboys something else to gloat over on N4G" - Well sadly that as happened and it's what has lead to some people having unrealistic expectations.

"I am taking a wait and see approach to it all to be honest." - I agree very much with this approach it's either this or set your expectations based on the info released by MS themselves about the XB1 platform and DX12 not PC or otherwise because they are not comparable.

" Im sure ND have an opinion on it, but they would be better off keeping that in professonal circles...whether true or not,why do they feel the need to reassure PS fans that there will be no benefits to DX12 on X1? why cant they just say..."hey weve been working on tools that are going to further enhance the visual quality of PS4 games"...why do they HAVE to talk about DX12?" - I don't think it's about that if you look at how many Sony devs have commented on DX12 it's been 3 irrc. Am sure they are allowed to give their opinions about things. It's not like they are going to sites making the pick up their tweet responses or tweets. I mean look at the people that responded to the tweet first they are devs. Are devs really not allowed to express their opinions on social media? Am pretty sure such a restriction doesn't exist in other industries.

I really don't honestly see it as them reassuring "PS fans" it's not like it's a prevalent thing that all Sony devs have been saying it's just being a couple that have commented because they felt like it.

I mean this is the his bio description -

"All negative views expressed here are my own."

[BallsEye]

@foxtrot

Like it says in a book how to make an amazing game...seriously, yer fanboy thinking is just hilarious. Oh yea, and getting inspiration from a book is bad and straightforward, but getting inspiration from movies is creative!....n4g...best place for some laughs, everyday!

[showtimefolks]

GodGinrai

LOL you think just because someone works on ps4 they don't know what's inside the xbox one? also they are developers they know what the heck they are talking about

people are just hurt inside that DX12 won't boost xbox one to jump ps4

[Dehnus]

@Kayant:
I know one thing, if you're a friend of mine, and you are talking SHIT about my employer and the job I do to the best what I am able to with the given tools I have?

Then don't bother coming over for the New Years dinner and find some other friends.

[AngelicIceDiamond]

Yeah no MASSIVE change on X1 but it will still benefit from it regardless.

[Majin-vegeta]

If anyone knows there stuff it's these guys.They are top of the line DEVS making most others out look like Chumps.

[OpieWinston]

They make cinematic games, don't pretend like linear games are ground breaking at this day and age.

CD Projekt Red have proven themselves as to be THE Top dog devs. They make Naughty Dogs teams look like amateurs.

Wait for The Witcher 3...

[snookiegamer]

@OpieWinston

From what you've typed...

You come across as extremely gut wrenchingly hurt, disappointed and absolutely gutted...and not for the first time.

You deserve a long vacation ;)

#NaughtyGods

[user7402931]

bs naughty dog own cd projekt red

[IVIEDICATED]

Drugs do this to people. Seriously that's your opinion and it's an opinion that's got no basis in fact. The body of work suggests otherwise in this case. ND are whether you like it or not one of the top 3 devs in gaming that's not an opinion it's a fact if you go only on quality and games made and sold ND has the numbers and they're clearly on another level than CO Projekt Red.

[-Foxtrot]

Your saying CD Projekt Red are better then NaughtyDog

...right

The Witcher was made from a Book, least ND come up with there own ideas. Not saying it's a bad game, they aren't but at least ND has that over them. All ND do is take inspiration from films to give their games that cinematic feel.

[sinspirit]

Witcher 1 was quite linear; Witcher 2 had sorta open environments but not much more than Uncharted and TLoU. The graphics are not quite as good, but are good.

I own Witcher 1 and 2 on PC. I'm not sure what provoked you to announce your biased statements.

[sorane]

@fox

"Your saying CD Projekt Red are better then NaughtyDog"

I'm saying ND isn't 1/100th the developer that the Witcher guys are.

"The Witcher was made from a Book, least ND come up with there own ideas."

Really? In the last 9 years I see 4 ND games that copied there gameplay straight from the original Tomb Raider series and a very mediocre kart racing game(Nintendo called.....) Where are these original ideas from ND? I surely can't see any. What about there next 2 games hmmm a "remaster" of a game only a year old and yet another Tomb Raider clone. Wow such innovation ND..... If these guys are the best developers that the PS has, then I feel really, really, really sorry for you guys. They'd be nothing more than a low tier developer on PC who's games I wouldn't buy for more than $5 on a Steam sale. A top tier developer makes a variety of genres very well, and the only thing that has changed with ND games in the last decade is the number next to there name.

[LightDiego]

CD Projekt Red? Lmao, looks like The Witcher fans are the biggest joke nowadays.
The Witcher 1 is mediocre, the npcs for example look all the same, and The Witcher 2 is cool but way overrated, Edge magazine said the truth about the game.
Do you want to compare a studio with two games only, with studios like Naughty Dog? The first Uncharted alone has more awards than all CDPR did.

[king_george]

@sorane

Lol keep crying buddy its awesome! Naughty Dog are the best of the best get over it :p

Its funny that the studio you call low tier has taken home around 1000 (if not more) game of the year awards among a shit ton of other awards.

Hmmmmmm, lets see guys who should we believe? This guy that seems to be stinking up the place with all that crap flying out of his mouth or..... hundreds of publications naming Naughty Dog games the best in the industry? Lol not a hard choice

#NaughtyGods

[valet_Smerdyakov]

CD Project make extremely buggy games (the first Witcher was barely playable for months on PC) that only look good on a PC.

[sorane]

@jester_george

Spoken like the true sheep you are. I can just picture you sitting on your couch playing the award winning generic ND third person action game #457898. Pumping award winning Katy Perry and Justin Bieber songs out of your speakers, while the award winning Glee records on your dvr. Just waiting for your mom to get home so you two can watch the award winning Twilight movies on Blu Ray. Such an easy life as a part of the flock. No original thoughts or decision making since you let internet bloggers and popular TV personalities on MTV and Spike do all of that for you.

#brainwashed

[Geoff900]

'The best developers' is a very subjective term, Naughty Dog games tend to be very linear experiences compared to say Rockstars GTA series for example.

Different developers are better at certain things and worse at others, but from a technical perspective it's a lot more complex to have an open world than a linear path type of game.

Nothing wrong with a linear types of games, Halo, Gears, TLOU, and many others are linear and I enjoy them, as much as I enjoy GTA, Red Dead etc.

[kingtroy]

Aint this old news

[snookiegamer]

So it benefits PC gaming greatly...but how does it improve Xbox One?

As a Console only gamer, that's all that interests me.

[scotmacb]

If you have a game that uses alot of CPU dx12 makes the system use all the cores equal instead of one core alot which means more cores doing the same task gives you better performance

[Geoff900]

Not exactly, it's basically optimization of DX API, allowing developers to effectively to spread their code over the multi-cores rather than dumping all the code onto the GPU.

Think of it like the PS3's SPU's whereby games used the Cell processor to do some of the graphics processor (post processing),

Another addition is the inclusion of tilling.

It won't make the Xbox One more powerful, however it will allow developers to do more with the Xbox One*.

*If the developers want to that is.

[polow got sol]

Dont wanna hear from biased devs no thanks.

[Avernus]

How about from Phill?

"It will help developers on XBOX One. It’s not going to be a massive change but will unlock more capability for devs."

Basically what the ND guy meant when he said it won't be a "game changer".

[polow got sol]

Does that make ND any less biased though??

[Kayant]

@polow got sol

No but he's re-stating what the exec of the Xbox division/DX blog said also so why does it really matter if it's the same conclusion?

[M-M]

@polow got sol

There's no way around it, you lost.

[Geoff900]

First party developers will get a lot more benefits out of it, but not to the extent that some people proclaim.

Software development is a process of learning, OPTIMIZATION is very much the key of ANY console.

It's why RAGE was 720p at 60FPS for instance, and like anything it takes time to learn.

[PrinceOfAllSaiyans]

Phil Spencer even said it himself idiot

[Why o why]

See no evil hear no evil type mentality...... is phils non bias good enough for these guys.....lol

[andibandit]

I respect phil for telling it like it is, and not some pr bs. Why does nd spend so much time talking about ms, instead of making games....but you know what, lets have all developers stop making games and talk about eachother instead, maybe well get some AAA games in 2017

Next up lets hear 343 talk about how psnow isnt going to be a gamechanger, as if anyone really cared

[Avernus]

@ polow got sol

Being biased really has nothing to do with the facts though. They can quote Phill on the matter, and basically repeat what he said in their own words, and it won't have anything to do with them being biased.

I'm not saying they are, or aren't biased, but they comment AFTER Phill, so being biased is besides the point when Mr. Spencer himself said this a while back.

Anyway, I'm not arguing about this. I'm just saying, you can call ND biased if you want, but what do you call Mr. Spencer for saying the same thing?

[IVIEDICATED]

They know more than you do on the matter but by all means keep your blinders and earplugs on.

[MegaRay]

But others will. Put ND in an article's title and say a bad thing or two about xb1 and then boom! you got 1mil+ views in less than a day

[The_devils_chum]

I believe this guy especially when he has uncharted and last of us under his belt. All this dx12 and mantle stuff aside i wasnt too impressed with the uncharted reveal at E3 just cause there was so little to see. But i cant wait to see uncharted on a console thats what x8 to x16 times more power than ps3, also want to see the ice teams visual achievments.

[IVIEDICATED]

Unlike the stuff MS showed Uncharted wasn't CGI. It was in game in engine footage on a PS4. Whether you liked it or not is irrelevant as it's an opinion but you can't deny it's leaps and bounds beyond what's been seen on consoles before.

[mrpsychoticstalker]

Glad ND recognizes this.

Plus Microsoft is hiring. They might want a job.

[D3ATH_DRIV3R_777]

They have one already! it's called naughty dog.

[pyramidshead]

lol 0/10 troll

[guyman]

How on earth could you get agrees?

[maniacmayhem]

Why won't it be a huge advantage for Xbox One when the architecture is just like a PC? And last I checked when developing games you develop then on an actual PC.

So how will DX12 not benefit the Xbox One?

[Why o why]

I dont know, why dont you ask phil why he suggested x1 fans should temper their expectations. Thats why I like phil... he doesn't want to blow smoke up the asses of the fanbase he serves.. you'll only end up looking like 'odly quiet' greenberg

[xilx]

From what I've read, a lot of console games are bottlenecked by the gpu, not the cpu, so while dx12 will provide better performance for cpu tasks, it's still got that same gpu bottleneck. That's not necessarily the case for PC, where it all depends on your hardware setup, and there's more stuff going on in the background/OS where freeing up cpu resources would make more of a noticeable impact.

[maniacmayhem]

Even with increased CPU performance it will mean better design, more streamlined development and better effects which equals a higher performance in gameplay am I right?

Everyone seems to only be hung up on graphics. But if a game can offer better design, AI and performance, I think that counts way more. And that is what DX12 will be providing for the Xbox One.

[Kayant]

"So how will DX12 not benefit the Xbox One?" - Keyword not as beneficial he don't say it would not do anything.

The reasoning is simple

1. XB1's API is called DX11.X and has some of these DX12 features already
2. XB1 is a console so an update primed to bring "console efficiency" to other platforms that are not consoles isn't going to be bringing the same implications as to a platform that already is a console.

Now the evidence of this straight from MS themselves
http://i.imgur.com/FTyMN1I....
http://i.imgur.com/2TCRXbX....
http://www.slideshare.net/D...
https://www.youtube.com/wat...

"Forza Motorsport 5 is an example of a game that pushes the Xbox One to the limit with its fast-paced photorealistic racing experience. Under the hood, Forza achieves this by using the efficient low-level APIs already available on Xbox One today. Traditionally this level of efficiency was only available on console – now, Direct3D 12, even in an alpha state, brings this efficiency to PC and Phone as well. By porting their Xbox One Direct3D 11.X core rendering engine to use Direct3D 12 on PC, Turn 10 was able to bring that console-level efficiency to their PC tech demo."

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dir...

[Cueil]

it's the porting that changes everything

[Geoff900]

I will try to explain this as best I can.

When developers make games they are utilizing the time they have to create whatever best suits their stipulation, for instance some developers want high visual fidelity, another developer may want higher framerate.

Like everything on console, their are compromises and honestly neither Xbox One or PS4 are as powerful as some proclaim, they are using quite old GPU's, and using a mobile JAGUAR processor underclocked at that.

Now DX12 will give some benefits to developers if they wish to utilize it, however like everything in gaming it's about money and if as a dev team you cannot learn the new tools within a certain time frame, you will not utilize it.

The extra optimization to coding comes at extra time costs, now will this increase the visuals? well it really depends on how close you are to MS.

Now the Xbox One won't give the Xbox One super amazing visuals on every game, that comes down to the developers their knowledge, experience etc.

However it may enable you to increase the resolution, the FPS and allow you to do more physics just for example.

Side note, the CPU's used aren't all that great hence the FPS being quite a bit of a deal on both systems, e.g. only achieving 30FPS even on a number of exclusive games.

As a developer myself I find it amusing on how much fanboyism there is, considering neither console is all that powerful.

The 360 and PS3 had a lot more bigger generation change than the PS4 and X1.

[madjedi]

Because both the ps4 and xb1 already have low level access to the gpu, this along with mantle is a attempt to bring benefits consoles enjoy to the pc, lower cpu overhead for example.

Switching to direct x 12, might have some very modest performance increase for the xb1, but nothing remotely near huge.

If you want a huge performance increase the solution is to gut the system and start over with more powerful hardware.

There is no magic program that will give either the ps4 or the xb1 the type of performance gains your expecting. Btw the architecture in both the ps4 and xb1 is the same except for the gpu and memory.

Are people really stupid enough to think that just because developer works at sony, that they are completely clueless about direct x.

Btw geniuses screaming biased developer, probably 95-100% of devs give less than two shits about this ps4 vs xbox dick measuring contest.

These systems were designed for good enough performance, so that neither company loses money, devs getting to know how to code games to run more efficiently on the systems.

Will likely provide better results than any falsely hyped up magic bullet program.

@xilx, while i do believe both console will be ultimately limited by their gpus, i would say we are a couple of yrs away before it actually becomes a hinderance for console developers.

[valet_Smerdyakov]

> Why won't it be a huge advantage for Xbox One when the architecture is just like a PC?

Because the possibility of a low level, "close to the metal" programming on a console has been there since the beginning. When you develop for a console you don't have to take dozens of different GPUs, CPUs into account and don't need a generic API.

> And last I checked when developing games you develop then on an actual PC.

They are developed on a PC but they can't actually run on a PC! The PC is used for typing the code, putting the assets together and cross-compile. The compiled code is then tested/run on a console. Why do you think you always see a console dev unit on each developer's table?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

[CervantesPR]

AS if anyone sane thought DX12 or the "cloud" was going to be a game changer, i remember when were getting weekly articles about the xbox one somehow getting more powerful every week LMAO poor xbox fanboys getting deceived into thinking things were going to be different.

[98xpresent]

It might not be a huge leap but it's gonna change something .

[Manic2014]

Well it's definitely going to make development easier.

[wtopez]

I'm very excited about DX12. Microsoft completely dropped the ball with PC gaming and Valve was more than glad to pick it up. Now Valve is making a ton more money than the Xbox division and it's actually posing a real threat to MS to take away gaming from Windows completely with Steam OS. Glad MS is actually doing something about it. From the PC side, I've only heard positive things about DX12 and the fact that it's already compatible with older GPUs is a big plus.

[True_Samurai]

So a Sony first party developer who is only developing games for the ps4 is saying it won't do anything for Sony's competition the x1. Even if it's not a massive change they act as if they know more than the ones who's creating the software hmm.

[akaFullMetal]

Well there is Corrine Yu, who worked for Bungie who worked with Xbox, and they used DX. So I assume she knows what's going on, since she programmed for Halo. And now she works for Naughty Dog, so they know all about it.
Plus what Phil said is the same thing as this article.

[Spotie]

So I take it Phil Spencer also only works on Sony games? He did say the same thing.

The EXACT same thing. And Naughty Dog actually develops games...

[mkis007]

This line of questioning begs the question: Why did those xbox execs, before the console launches, say that the power is on paper...if they are not the ones who knew anything about ps4...

If you are going to go down this route and say that naughty dog wouldn't know...then you have to say the same about everything MS has said...

OH and many devs at ND have worked other places before.

[corroios]

on the PC games, lol

[SuperBlunt]

Uh oh...time to get some poppy corn

[Xbot1214]

OHH WOW LET ME ASK ND DEVS MORE ABOUT MIRCOSOFTS SYSTEM

[Kvally]

So, why are we listening to ND? They haven't made a single DirectX game, and they are trying to dispute what the makers of DirectX 12 have said? These guys are classy. I bet ever PS4 fan will believe every word they say.

[MasterCornholio]

To tell you the truth they are only repeating what Phil said.

And I believe Phil don't you?

[kaileb]

Phil has not made any Direct X12 either.... And I believe him.

[majorkilljoy]

why do we keep approving these articles they are all the same just flame bait.

[DJustinUNCHAIND]

Okay, let's listen to PlayStation devs talk about tools they won't be using.

[Flutterby]

And ignore the head of xbox saying the exact same thing as ND huh ? No wonder MS have to explain everything so much , the xbone owners are mentally challenged it would seem.

[lemoncake]

It seems like every day a naughty dog person comments on how dx12 won't do much for x1, yet they don't have access to dx12 and don't develop for its platforms neither PC nor Xbox. They have become the anti dx12 poster boys for Sony at this point, we will see what happens when it's released, assumptions is all anyone outside of Microsoft and it's circle of developers have atm.

[Majin-vegeta]

http://www.dualshockers.com...

You were saying?

[Baka-akaB]

You do realize any pro could apply for early access ? And that it's a basic requisite in their line of work to update their knowledge base and have basic skills on even direct x ? You wont stay at ND or any place important , just studying OpenGL because you currently works for Sony

Besides , they are only the poster boys for pro/anti Dx12 only in the deluded minds of fanboys of either side .

They just gave their honest opinions about it , and it fall in lines with everything most devs said so far .

Most devs or even MS exec didnt hyperbole and exagerate the input and potential from dx12 on the console . They lauded its boons , but always said the lion's share would be on PC . It's the likes of Mister X and other likeminded fanboys whom decided to use quote , mostly targeted at the pc world , and twist it into some notion that it would be THE 50% BOOST (or whatever crap lie they sold) for XB1 and turn the world upside down for it .

[kingmushroom]

I got almost 2k to build a PC can any one give me a list of things I need to buy to build a strong Pc from the ground up. I need to run udk and for editing large image files.

[Cueil]

Then it doesn't matter what you get... save money buy buying AMD and splurge on high end video card and multiple monitors

Personally I'd wait for DDR4 to go mainstream then get a system

Also check out Cyberpowered PCs at Newegg they usually have sales and you can score yourself a beast pc for under 2k

[i3eyond the Circle]

So...being able to fully utilize the Xbox Ones CPU is a bad thing?

Sure it might not be a game changer but what if it's something?

I know what it does...it spreads a workload to allow more cpu performance but I'm not sure what it results to for games.

Maybe smoother frame rates and better environmental effects like trees and cloth shimmering?

Whatever the case may be it only makes Xbox one games better...even if minuscule...it is an improvement right?

[uth11]

There's an interesting comment in that article. That Mantle gave the one dev a 6x boost.

AMD has said Mantle could be used on both PS4 and Xbox One, if MS and Sony are interested. But nobody seems interested.

Why is this? AMD also said the Sony API is pretty optimized now. but does that mean it won't benefit from Mantle?

[corvusmd]

Why, other than fanboy clickbait, would we ask Naughty Dog what they think about DX12? Are there articles floating around asking MS companies about the PS4 API? Chances are that no one at Naughty Dog has every touched DX12, nor will they ever as long as they are at Naughty Dog (at least to the capacity as how it concerns XB1).

True, they are very talented Devs and can render an educated guess, but I will take an educated guess behind statements of those that are equally as talented, but that have USED DX12.

Not to mention I think this is just a re-hash of an article from about a month or two ago, it reads the exact same and offers no new info.

[Potnoodle999]

Not you again...how haven't MS hired you for their spin team yet? You really don't like bubbles do you?

[IndoAssassin]

Who are these journalists that ask such dumb questions? Let's go ask a Dev from a rival organization their opinion on an SDK that is still a year away from being available for use with MS 1st party devs.

Gaming journalists are a joke. Worse than tabloids.

[hello12]

I read it and here is the problem. The main points.

I wouldn't call it a game changer on xbone. But it's definitely a huge step forward in CPU performance for PC!" replied Ramy EI Garawany.

So he doesn't deny it will have benefits! First thing ignored by Sony fans on N4G

I wouldn't call it a game changer on xbone? Ok why do you think that? We get nothing!

But it's definitely a huge step forward in CPU performance for PC

Why so again no reasons given. All sound bites we get.

Directx12 is a new API ( the last directx11 came out 2009) And all its extra next gen features will be available next year for xb1. Phil Spencer already stated the xb1 will be using full dirtectx12 features!

So come on it its obvious to me the xb1 will see an performance increase.

[FITgamer]

I've never heard anyone say it would have no benefit at all on Xbox One. If you have it's purely to get a rise out of people. If that was case it wouldn't even be implemented on console in the first place.

[Destiny1080]

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

the point of this video is to show you how useless the cpu is compared to the gpu, the power of these consoles will be determined by how they can offload cpu tasks to the gpu and this is where the ps4 has a massive advantage

[Ryan741]

They scurrred.

[chobit_A5HL3Y]

nd sets industry standards. they're more afraid of getting sick from their lunches than they are of dx12 right now.

[nannasin]

Why are ND developers being asked this question? Why not a second or third party developer who ACTUALLY HAS SOME EXPERIENCE ON X1 and DX11.2 and DX12 and not a developer who is using openGL? Why not ask some at say Crytek or remedy or capcom or platinum games? Someone who might actually be using the system and/or software?

What is ND going to say? Oh, yeah its gonna rock on the X1. Wish we could use it too on the PS4?!?!

[windblowsagain]

It's a decent change for PC, but won't do much for xboxone.

We already know this.

As for Naughty dog, of course they know DX. It's a PC api and is used for many reasons.

Naughty dog keep up on everything technical.

[sebzhd]

In your face M$. Naughty Dog rules, they ar king of dev on console, so M$ shet up and learn from them.

[tommygunzII]

If you are designing games professionally this is probably common knowledge. Nothing to see here really.

[mixolydian_id]

When it comes to consoles and pcs, directx 12 will be helpful. The batching of commands is bound to improve efficiency, keeping the gpu fed with information.
It all comes down to whether devs are prepared to put the time in and learn a new system. The way I see it, dx12 will be great, but the developer still have to code for it.
More development time but better games. Now, bring in the fact that this is new technology. Even the best in the industry still have to learn the new system until they're familiar.
The same comes down to cloud computing. Yes, it works and it is proven to work...
The problem is that coders are practised at coding for games. When it comes to networking/real world computing, the developers need to go back and study another undergraduate degree to even comprehend coding cloud computing. I work inside a university, we have 25,000 computers stored on servers, accessed via unique credentials on remote servers. This includes software, cloud storage, remote maintenance and next to no hardware failure. Proven system, working on standard wired networks.
Only personal opinions of my own through experience.

[player002]

Man exactly how I feel unfortunately lots of blind people who can't see the bigger picture.When it launches and people see it they will be in awe.Ms love them or hate them are the fathers of the Api Dx12 is coming out and people still don't think it a big thing..When tile resources and cloud compute are working feeding that Esram that can read and write @ the same time then we will see.
Stop posting dumb articles on the competitions first party Top game designers seriously.Ask the people who are working on it right now bet the answer would be different.

Seriously we are all gamers here this kind of article has no place to much Bias I'm tired of it.

[mixolydian_id]

It's funny really. Students and staff can remotely access their work desktops (photoshop, ms office, emails, remote storage and TB's of faculty storage, access policies and printers etc). Before I started working here I would've thought they were mad.
But it works perfectly.
Instead of dishing out 1000's of pounds in "Thick" client tower computers, staff and students use "Thin" clients which only cost about 200 pounds.
Obviously the datacentre is a multimillion pound system but if something was to play up, they'd just replace that for minimal expenditure.
Also, all computers can be updated on the fly. As a pose to manually sending information to the device to have to then install and reboot etc, the updates are rolled out in the background before a user access's their account.
Everyone can access their desktops remotely using the internet browser from any computer off campus, although using VMware viewer works much more securely. It can even be done via a standard wireless connection. Hell, I can do it on my phone AND tablet too.

Another thing that is really surprising is that, the user's of this technology have no idea how it works. It's technology, to generalise, user's use technology but do not need to know how it works.

Its why I believe people downplay all the talk of cloud computing. They said Einstein was mad. Forward thinking tech is always thrown under the bus at first until people realise it's the only way things can go in the future. MS dont need to explain themselves because sooner or later, everyone will adopt the technology and they'll basking in the patents all over again.

[headblackman]

i like naughty dogs work and all, but they have no experience with dx12, so they can't comment on it. this really looks tacky on their part to even speak on topics that they have no real world hands on experience with. i highly doubt that they wanted to speak out on this topic, but more so them being put up to saying this lame mess from sony because they know that the people respect their work and believe in their abilities. and for the record, the question was based on what naughty dog thought of dx12, not about what they knew about dx12. so anyone that take this as law is a fanboy and want to believe that this wont make a difference. but whatever helps you sleep at night, you believe that!

it's a sad day in gaming when you have dirty tactics like this being pulled.

[samchez77]

After the disappointent of Mantle, I doubt whether it will have a significant improvement on PC either. However, my particular mantle drivers are still in beta so may improve. So far Direct x is still better.

[horndog]

Why is naughty dog commenting on xbox one? These mofos need to put each others d I c k s back in their mouth and go back to making tomb raider knock offs. If you ain't making games for the system keep it shut. Don't know why these pricks feel like they are the be all end all of the gaming industry.

[samchez77]

Same goes for John Carmack with his negative comments about the PS3. Naughty Dog are one of the most talented developers in the world. easily in the top 5.

What goes around comes around. You Xbots had last gen. Now it's Sony's turn. Be a good sport.

[windblowsagain]

I know.

Carmack had so much Rage.

Then it was all Doom and gloom.

During one of his Speeches I even Felt a Quake.

[samchez77]

Should of fed him to the Wolf-ensteins. (The New Order is Awesome BTW)

[quenomamen]

You are so right everybody knows only the world renown Infinity Ward or the equalily talented Treyarch have the right to speak on these matters, what with their long list of stellar games and all.

[Max-Zorin]

Phil already said that.

[quenomamen]

MorePowerOfGreen + 3h ago

" XB1 WILL LEAPFROG PS4's performance I make a bet on that(Yes with software and remote processing from servers "

I've always heard of a place called Denile but have never been, and since you being a citizen and probably mayor just wanted to ask if its nice ? Whats the weather like ? Are the rumors true about the river of tears ? What about the mountain of BS ? Have you climbed it ? How high is it ? I have so many questions to ask.

Is it true whenever a new X1 game is confirmed to be sub 1080p the ground shakes and there's lightning and thunder ? Seems like pretty bad place to live if its all true, ever think of moving ?

[Illusive_Man]

This is the 3rd time they've made a comment on DX12. My question is how would the know anything about DX12 on a competing platform? Have the ever used the API?

A few days ago this was published on Gamingbolt and hotlinked to N4G:

It’s important to note that Wolfgang is not criticizing DirectX and in fact he thinks it will turn out to be great.

Wolfgang Engel was at the GDC booth this year where he spoke about Compute Shader Optimizations across three AMD GPUs: RADEON 6770, RADEON 7750 and RADEON 7850. Will those same optimization methods be applicable on the PlayStation 4?
“Yes, but there will be other PS4 specific optimizations, not available on PC, that will help increase performance even more,” explains Wolfgang.
What are your thoughts on this? Let us know in the comments section below.

Read more at http://gamingbolt.com/ps4-a...

So PS4 can improve with newer API but a totally rewritten API from MS won't do a damn thing. Yeah, I totally believe that.

[SoulSercher620]

Phil also said this even after ND said it the first time. But it's ND so Xbox fanboys will ignore their statement.

[player002]

out of context phils tweet he was talking in terms of development...proven facts Dx12 improves CPU workload by 50% ya no big difference ha.does it improve gpu well if cpu is more efficient the work can be offloaded for gpu oh wait lots of programing is shifting to cpu middleware companies.Hmmmm XB1 was built for cloud and has offloading processors and 15 special processors.They would never write a new program api that could use all the tech inside nah never lol Perhaps they don't have the money to invest in something like that new technology(cloud compute)which would need a lot of servers(Azure) crap that would cost millions to invest maybe billions Ms is way to broke to afford or do this not like they created Api's or anything#foolish

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

As usual,people don't understand what DX does or Open GL, etc. Guys, software iterations can only impact hardware up til the hardware's limitations.

[jazmac]

why....why do they ask obviously biased people (a guy who works for a company that makes games exclusively for ps4) their opinions on things like direct x 12 or the number of other things where the people who are working on it will obviously say it's amazing and the people competing against it will say it's not that great.

Personally I don't think dx12 will do anything particularly noticeable for xbox or PC just based on my experience with any kind of software update of any kind (unless the original software/hardware was completely broken on release).

This article and his opinion are completely worthless.

[NobleTeam360]

As several other people have already stated, Phil Spencer himself already said this.

[kingPoS]

To this Wardell replied: "hard to tell. Mantle gave our engine a 6x boost over dx11 on same hardware."

I then enquired Wardell: "if mantle provided you 6x boost over dx11? how much performance boost you expect from dx12 for your engine?" to this he replied:

"too early to say but a lot. MS's claim of 2x sounds right."

Hmmm...

Quote: Everyone is complaining about OpenGL and DirectX while I'm sitting here happily optimizing for #PS4...

I can wait to see the fruits of the ICE team's laborious optimizations.
Nom nom nom... PlayStation 4 fruit sure is tasty.

Gateway MT6706 2008

[CawMasterX]

If Phil Spencer is saying it, I'll take his word. Nothing against ND but I know ppl will not hear it coming from the competition.

[Artemidorus]

Naughty Dog have nothing to do with Xbox or Direct X so they can put up and shut up.

[joeorc]

Sometimes, people who work in the industry go to other companies, and they may need the experience before hand to do so, its best to learn in multiple disciplines in the same field in order to gain fresh new perspectives if you want to be better and grow in the field with more experience.

I will just leave that here.

[Neonridr]

No offense to Naughty Dog but isn't this a little ignorant to say since they have not worked on the Xbox One architecture at all. I trust them as developers, but stick to what you know, Sony hardware. Don't make comments about something that you haven't played around with to know for sure.

[SKullDugger]

Like you right?

[Neonridr]

absolutely not. But wouldn't it be wiser to take a 1st party MS developers words over whether or not it will increase performance or not? Not someone who works with the competition and doesn't develop on MS platforms..

What do you think ND would say? Oh it's going to make the Xbox One so much better!

[Malacath]

I would prefer to hear comments about DX12 from multiplatform 3rd party developers.

Naughty Dog are owned by Sony, have no experience programing for xbox so are not qualified to comment on DX12 or xbox. Anything they say is biased.

[feraldrgn]

I wouldn't mind DX12 for my windows 7-64bit, but I'm guessing it's going to be Windows 8 exclusive. :(

[bez87]

Wow most of the people on here seem to of not read the article or what the guy from ND said.

DX12 is just the next step for PC, it will help a little on the CPU side of things for X1 but it isn't going to change the fact the GPU is a bog standard entry level GPU, most games will still be below 1080p, if you want better graphics and your hoping any of these systems will do so, your mistaken and should buy into a decent gaming rig,

[SKullDugger]

Here is the thing MS chose to use aless powerful GPU and ddr3 ram so they could build the kinect 2.0 and force it on people and then there is SONY who chose to use a more powerful GPU and GDDR5 ram and no gimmick peripheral, so in the end the PS4 is more powerful will remain that way thru this gen. Sony and MS will both improve tools for their consoles but the fact remains in the specs the chips and the ram, thus giving the PS4 the advantage. MS should have built a more powwerful console and offered the kinect seperate. The secret sauce is a PS4

[jmac53]

It is hilarious watching the fanboys denying what the head of Xbox and top tier developers are saying about DX12. It's even funnier because its something they know very little about. Its important to have hopes and dreams and no one is going to take those away from you fanboys.