Xbox One vs PS4: ESRAM "Not Much Faster Than GDDR5, Can Never Have Sustained Speed, It's Bottleneck"

Well known industry insider, Pete Todd aka atFamousmortimer has shared another set of juicy details regarding Microsoft's next-gen Xbox console, Xbox One via Twitter. This time details are regarding Xbox One's ESRAM comparison to Xbox 360 EDRAM and how soon developer can make full use of it and whether it will be competitive with PS4's GDDR5?.

[dedicatedtogamers]

But we've known this. Everyone has known this. The ESRAM was never meant to make the X1 faster or more powerful than PS4. It's a crutch to keep the X1 hardware from lagging behind even more than it already is.

[TomShoe]

The problem is that there's just not enough of it. It's acting as a bottleneck, strangling the usage of resources.

Also, why am I posting at 2AM? I need some sleep.

[dedicatedtogamers]

An ESRAM pool of triple - even double - the size would've done wonders for the X1's overall performance. It's fascinating to read the history of how X1 and PS4 came to be: essentially, X1's setup of ESRAM+8G DDR3 was the "safe bet" and was planned well in advance to allow for the X1's multitasking. For the longest time (leading up to the PS4 reveal, in fact), the "leaked" specs for PS4 had it with 4G of GDDR5, and even then there were comparisons showing how a 4G unified pool of GDDR5 would be able to outperform 8G of DDR3 pushed through a ESRAM controller.

That's why the announcement of a unified pool of 8G of GDDR5 was such a megaton to those who understand this hardware stuff.

[Bathyj]

@dedicated

That true and I remember that at the time. Even with 4gb it was widely believed that PS4 still had the edge. When 8gb was announced MS head honchos must have facepalming something fierce. How could we be so short sighted? Again?

[MasterCornholio]

I'm no computer engineer so please correct me if I'm wrong.

People are saying that Microsoft should have included more esram in the system.

Xbox Ones APU

http://www.extremetech.com/...

Now the esram is on the APU itself which means that if we increase its size it would take up more space on the chip. When this happens some other component has to get smaller in order to make room for the esram. Microsoft has two options they can either make the CPU smaller by getting rid of some cores or make the GPU smaller by doing the same. In either case it would lead to a weaker system which would put it further behind the PS4 and increase the problems with resolution and framerate.

Is this more or less correct?

[dedicatedtogamers]

@ MorePowerOfGreen

Don't throw out numbers if you don't know what they mean.

@ Bathyj

It wasn't shortsightedness at all. Microsoft intended in every way for the X1 to be an all-in-one machine instead of a gaming powerhouse. People (not directing this at you, necessarily) look back at the X1 reveal and the 180 and it's only natural to think "Oh, Microsoft just made a quick little mistake, and then they turned it around". Do people realize that these consoles take several years to conceptualize, let alone develop and test?

With the exception of the always online, the X1 we have today is exactly what Microsoft wanted it to be.

[sinjonezp]

Master corn is the only one who stated it the best and he has dislikes. The esram takes up space on the apu, that is why the. Xb1 has less compute units on the chip, that is why the x1 has a weaker gpu. If microsoft was to include a bigger esram like 64 instead of 32, this would have affected the architecture, the heat, and the amount of gpu units on the die. Please people look it up. Additionally, ddr3 was a terrible choice. When running grfx applications, it requires gfx ram, hence why ps went with gddr5. Ddr3 has its positives but in real world gfx, it does not compare to gddr5. When one builds a PC, which these consoles are based on, has ddr3 memory and the gfx cards have gddr5. The most plausible solution should have been to incorporate both modules. However, its design solutions to keep wattage down, and price is understandable. Bottom line, in my opinion, is that the esram is a bottleneck that takes up too much space on the die, reducing gfx cores, and cause difficulties on devlopers. I still like the x1, i just did not like some of these design choices by microsoft.

[its_JEFF]

wait what?!?! what's this 8 gigs of flash memory coming from?

Also, If you're touting the cloud for Xbox... don't forget that Sony has begun work on their Cloud computing tech, don't remember the exact specifics tho. And I could have totally read that article wrong, sorry guys not much of tech head.

[FamilyGuy]

This is so rehash

Why are we having this conversation again?
This exact same discussion happened two months before the PS4 and X1 launched.

Is this meant to be a reminder or what?
I sure as hell haven't forgotten yet.

Old news.

[vigilante_man]

If you are going to do it - go the whole way!

When Sony were considering this route before they decided on GDDR shared pool of RAM they were considering speeds of over 1,000 GB/s peak output.

Imagine how powerful that would of proved over time?

Microsoft did it with only a max output of 204 GB/s at peak. Just one of the many weird decisions from Microsoft for the XB1 (power brick, massive case with huge fan meaning cannot stand it up or stack another device on top, etc.)

[johndoe11211]

@MorePowerOfGreen

It depresses me when other people have 2 and 3 bubbles and they have alot of smart things to say and you use your one bubble to make utterly senseless comments that have been proven to be false by every industry professional except the ones working in microsoft and misterxmedia. You should dedicate your bubble to other people.

This gen is going to be a very long and depressing one for you and every other irrational microsoft drone who is putting their hopes in "teh power of teh claawwds". Apparently no matter how many industry professionals say that cloud computing is NOT going to be a big benefit in the gaming industry right now (at least not how microsoft is saying they are going to use it) you people seem hell bent on believing otherwise.

"MSFT's plans were to enhance the console's performance by many times its local capability so the console's power was scalable with new tech. "
This statement makes as much sense as trying to race a train with a pogo stick. They make a weak a$$ system that is struggling to do 1080p 60fps so much to the point that they have to gimp the kinect now in order to try and drain as much power possible for the system and you have the audacity to talk about power being scalable with new tech??? You're right, they down scaled the kinect because the bone couldn't handle the new tress fx tech.

Why why why is it so hard for some of you xbox supporters to see logic? It's as if microsoft hypnotized the lot of you.The ps4 is going to choke???? The ps4 is already doing 1080p 60fps and developers haven't even learnt the system properly yet. you keep spouting MS BS jargon about adding memory bandwidths not even understanding what the hell it all means.

Mark my words you will spend the rest of this entire generation waiting and hoping and making excuses for features and graphics that you will never see and at the end of it all you will feel like an idiot for believing in all that microsoft fake tech. Either that or you'll make some lame brain excuse why it never happened and start the cycle again by putting your undying faith and loyalty in the xbox two.

[mmj]

"An ESRAM pool of triple - even double - the size would've done wonders for the X1's overall performance."

Only way they could compete with PS4 was to scrap the ESRAM (which is a band aid for slow DDR3), fit 8GB GDDR5 and a better GPU.

[Kayant]

@MorePowerOfGreen

"Dude is damage controlling PS4's 180gb of peak Ram bandwidth vs XB1's 204gb of peak Bandwidth with ESRAM" - In the real world you not going to be hitting that peak often. We know PS4 is able to provide a higher continual bandwidth output.

"Doesn't matter PS4 is going to choke in the future trying to compete with XB1 when it comes to cloud compute enhanced games" - Just like XB1 with choke when GPGPU compute is being used.

[tagan8tr]

@MorePowerOfGreen Why do you even waste your time no one is buying what your trying to sell about 180 vs 204. What diff is 204 if its in a microscopic portion? I have a diamond its .0000204 Carat, but its a diamond right?

[mewhy32]

Hey. What ms should have done was used GDDR5 like Sony did. They got caught off guard. What the world thought was that the PS4 was only going to have 4gig of GDDR5 but it actually ended up with 8. IF the latter had been true then the bone would have been in a better position, well still behind in the GPU category. But with things as they are it's too late to change now and this will continue to hinder the devs in what they will be able to do on the bone when compared with the superior tech of the PS4.

[andrewsqual]

@MorePowerOfGreen Yes because Sony didn't announce at E3 2012 that they bought one of the largest and specialised companies at Cloud Computing. Just because Sony don't talk about "teh cloudz" everyday doesn't mean they don't have massive plans for it. They know exactly what we all want to hear AND see. Not just all talk like Microsoft has been since 21st May 2013 and you now yourself too.

[truefan1]

Why is this still a debate, ps4 is more powerful than the xb1. MSFT went with ddr3 because of the multi tasking capabilities. At the end of the day, we buy consoles to play games and XB1 is winning in that department. The multiplats will most likely look better on ps4, but with the amount of resources MSFT has invested in games I expect XB1 to have the better games this gen. So far XB1 had the better launch lineup and will have the better 2014 lineup.

[scott182]

Most powerful system and the games out/coming that most excite me. Love Sony as a company, they just use their huge pool of first party talent to do the talking, can't wait to see what they have cooking.

[gaffyh]

@MasterCornholio + sinjone - They could have put more esRAM on the APU, but they would have had to increase the die size in order to keep the current GPU/CPU compute units. This would have meant redesigning the motherboard completely, and the whole size of the console itself.

It was possible, but it would have meant that MS pushed the console back at least 6 months.

[Kryptix]

@truefan

lol

Xbox One will have a better line up in 2014 and you know this since the first month of the year? Lend me your fortune telling crystal ball so it can show me how much of a fool you're gonna look like during this coming E3. Didn't the last 3 years of the Xbox 360 tell you anything about exclusives? Wait, you didn't know because you don't know the true meaning of getting constant exclusives. lol

[Pogmathoin]

JohnDoe, agreed, but the comment you made, 'This gen is going to be a very long and depressing one for you and every other irrational microsoft drone who is putting their hopes in "teh power of teh claawwds"' is not the right thing to say. i know, and since the PS4 reveal that there was going to be a big difference. The pricing was the icing on the cake. But I still got both systems. They both have something to offer. I hated the original Kinect too, but the X1 version is really much more improved and responds really well. Most who make comments disagreeing are simply trolling. I made a decision to get X1 too, happy with it, and the power of it does not matter, and that is the case for most X1 owners I think. Most of these articles about the power of X1 are posted by fanboys such as Maria, and first comments from the likes of Dedicated, Xheavy with the intellectual copy and paste of told you so, known for years blah blah....the games I have played so far on X1 have been good for me, hopefully lots more to come, on both systems. Enjoy gaming John....

[its_JEFF]

@johndoe11211 You sir are trying to reason with some who is unreasonable. Very valid attempt but he's honestly too far gone.

You used a very interesting word, "hypnotized." I've seen it from both sides, it's really crazy. Being a fanboi is fine, but there's another level above that where they turn into "followers" of the cult leader, in this case MS or Sony. Where nothing bad can be said about the "leader" the leader can never be questioned. The leaders is always right and the leaders always makes the right decision.

They're definitely drinking the koolaid!

[sinspirit]

@MorePowerOfGreen

Flash is nothing more then storage in this case. OS, video replays, or standby features. It isn't going to enhance any of your gameplay.

GDDR5 runs much cooler at faster speeds with far less power consumption. This is one of the main reasons it was decided for PS4 is because it is a win/win situation for the product produced.

Please don't argue about past rumors as if they were set in stone facts. The most precise rumors were as dedicatedtogamers said.

Everyone knows how closely Sony worked with the developers as well as hardware manufacturers ever since PS3 launched. There is absolutely no proof let alone logic in them changing hardware specs within a month. Sony showed off their official hardware far before Microsoft showed off theirs so if anyone is following it is Microsoft. Not only that but they released it before Microsoft released their console and it is so clear how much more work went into the PS4's form factor and architecture that none of it was simply changed overnight.

[morganfell]

Some things do not need damage control 5th account power of green. Truth and the simple explanation doesn't need damage control at all:

http://i.imgur.com/N3iMLE1....

[showtimefolks]

don't understand much of this but sony has done something right and future proof while MS chose a easy way out that's hurting them now and will hurt them more moving forward

that's what you get when you get actual feedback from development community. Its a console made by gamers for gamers and that's why its gonna do so well throughout next generation

last gen sony took the risk with Bluray and it paid off in the long run

Now with GDDR5 sony is looking to get some sort of advantage over its competition

[AngelicIceDiamond]

"don't understand much of this but sony has done something right and future proof while MS chose a easy way out that's hurting them now and will hurt them more moving forward"

Curious as to how.

[showtimefolks]

AngelicIceDiamond

like i said before i don't understand much but as a casual tech guy i would imagine having faster ram moving forward in few years will somehow matter

think about it the earliest we will see next xbox or ps is 2019 so going into years 2016 and beyond depending on slower ram or something which is not only faster but future proof

but i could be wrong so if i am than i am sorry

[AngelicIceDiamond]

"The ESRAM was never meant to make the X1 faster or more powerful than PS4."

I have no clue who stated that. All I heard was the ESRAM was suppose to make things quicker for the console not surpass the PS4.

[MasterCornholio]

The closest thing that I can recall is some people arguing that Microsoft's ESRAM was better due to its higher peak performance. Performance that can never achieve under normal conditions which renders that figure redundant.

[dedicatedtogamers]

I think we're saying the same exact thing. The ESRAM was not included in the console as a means to be as powerful as the PS4. Rather, they included it to compensate for the inherent limitations of DDR3.

[MysticStrummer]

"I have no clue who stated that"

People like MorePowerOfGreen up there are still saying it.

[come_bom]

"Xbox One vs PS4: ESRAM "Not Much Faster Than GDDR5, Can Never Have Sustained Speed, It's Bottleneck""

Everybody knows that Microsoft screwed up with the Xbox One, even Microsoft. They are just too stubborn to admit it.

[ambientFLIER]

Only the ps4 trolls think that. The people that actually bought one generally like it.

[TheKayle1]

u have no idea of what u r talking about...jsut first post n4g trolling as always...and i explain wjy

1) ms dosnt have any idea of what sony was building if they had they would not bbet on that weaker gpu

2) the esram isnt there to compete with the gddr5 is an evolution of what devs found nice...on the x360

[BlackTar187]

TheKayle,

I think you fail to realize or understand the way and how corporate espionage is used in everything.

MS and SONY all had somewhat of the ideas of what was being used. Maybe they don't know the exact details but you can bet they had a estimate with a min and max at that.

I can almost bet Sony was a holder of info about xbox one and chose 8GB to throw it off completely. We need to understand that secrets now are very hard to keep. For ex. Tarantino movie script the dude gave it to 3 people so 3 people were intrusted with a secret and it slipped. The way to keep secrets secret is to get rid of anyone who isn't you :).

[CryofSilence]

I know you're trying to communicate a message. I just have no idea what it is.

[Metfanant]

@dedicatedtogamers

the problem with doubling or tripling the size of the ESRAM pool would be a ripple effect on the rest of the silicon...

the APU itself is already rather large...with GPU space being sacrificed for the existing ESRAM...tripling the size of the ESRAM pool means either A. increasing the size of the APU a whole bunch...OR decreasing the size of the existing, already less powerful GPU...

[frostypants]

@MorePowerOf Green: "16gigs of memory(8gigs of RAM, 8gigs of flash"

Oh my God man, really? You seriously don't know the difference between system memory and storage memory? Why not just include the hard drive and claim that the One has 516GB of memory while you're at it?

Jesus...computers 101, kid.

[BlackTar187]

I tried signing up for MisterX blog(pretty sure is Green or greens brother or something) I posted one thing and was removed lol.

I would love to screeenshot his entire webpage for people to read so they wouldn't give him hits and views but im too lazy

[tuglu_pati]

ok, i thought we already knew this. Why are we beating a dead horse?

[badz149]

Because it's fun? Maybe? I don't know too but the dead horses (truefan, MorePoG etc) are indeed still talking crap.

[MysticStrummer]

Like badz said, that horse isn't quite dead, judging from the comments of some people on here.

[adorie]

http://manhattaninfidel.org...

Oh-really?

[GraveLord]

Yeah it annoys me that we're still talking about this. How many years until people finally accept they have the weaker system?

[lifeisgamesok]

With tiled resources for developers that use it 32 MB's of ESram can equal to 12 GB's of textures so when it's incorporated it'll be huge for Xbox One

[MysticStrummer]

PS4 can do that same thing. "Tiled resources" is just MS's name for it.

[BlackTar187]

You people are special

[rainslacker]

That's not how tiled textures work. The idea of ESRAM is at direct odds to how tiled resources work. I know it's hurts, but go do some research to find out why.

[Dehnus]

It also depends on what you want to do. Certain operations are fantastic to have 32MB of Esram for because they are heavily latency reliant. Others are more reliant on Bandwidth and not so latency dependant (Most of the old school Graphical engines fall in this this case).

MS made a mistake to sell it as "OMG LOOK AT BANDWIDTH RAAAAAAAAH!". It never was intended for that, outside of maybe as a "stopgap" to catch up to the PS4's GDDR5 ram. But just like the 360's EDRam, some really creative developers used it for other things than frame-buffer (certain physics operations are fantastic in it ;)). They should have had an in house studio make a demo of that instead of hammering on "POWER OF CLOUD!" without a demo to conceptionalize it!

[Blaze929]

another "Well known industry insider" eh? I can see where this is gonna go...

[corvusmd]

Those that can't create games, blog....

[GuruMeditation]

And those who cannot blog, whinge

[theWB27]

"GuruMeditation + 3m ago
And those who cannot blog, whinge"

Those who cannot burn, misspell.

[GuruMeditation]

None of those words were misspelt lol?!? Unless you were referring to whinge and thought I meant 'whine', which I didn't... to which I might reply: those who cannot rebound-burn, don't try :)

[theWB27]

touche : )

[Dannycr]

Those who cannot touche...damn I got nothing.

[MRMagoo123]

LOL i am wasting a bubble here but you 2 guys made me laugh lol nice back and forth but theWB27 would have looked less silly if he hadnt said anything at all. Every time someone uses touche i cant help but think of ben stiller in dodge ball lol, if i could make a meme with him saying touche i would use it now.

[Why o why]

Lol@ all above me baring murda dolls, Good sports

[theWB27]

So pretty much the same stuff that's been regurgitated since the specs were revealed almost a year ago?

Basically the X1 received too much positive news with the game leaks stuff and now lets tout some negativity to bring everything back into place.

It's crazy how Dodd proclaims how much he loves his X1 on Gaf and yet tweets the stuff he does.

Yes...the X1 can run games at 1080p 60fps.

[GuruMeditation]

He can still love his x1 and yet tweet realistically about the challenges it faces, surely? I criticise things I'm passionate about all the time, it's called being objective.

[theWB27]

What's the point of retweeting things, negative, that's already known and has been known for quite some time at the exact time the console is receiving a little positive vibe.

Especially when when the conversation turns to games. People were discussing games and their opinion on that...but Dodd brings up specs again?

That's not objective to me. He can support it all he wants and hope it does good, but what's his motivation for the negativity (specs) when the conversation finally turned to games?

[Kayant]

@theWB27

Hmmmm he was asked a question and he went on to answer said question. He is not re-tweeting anything.

Also where in the discussion where they talking about games?

There was only one question about games which was will 1080p 60fps be better with more experience with ESram. To which he replied sure but the concept of embedded memory is not new to devs.

Nice try spinning.

[kakashi81]

I feel like MS should have went with a slightly better gpu along with 48it-64mb of ESram.

[-Foxtrot]

" I criticise things I'm passionate about all the time, it's called being objective. "

Unfortunately on here it's called being a troll or a hater.

It's annoying

[Si-Fly]

...But they'll be xbox live arcade games or 360 rehashes.

[1nsomniac]

...the logic of a fanboy.

[KakashiHotake]

Microsoft's Penello already admitted it's not powerful enough. lol

[MightyNoX]

He has?!

[Magicite]

games which are not really next-gen.

[Hicken]

I'm a huge sports fan. Love my Falcons, Hawks, and Braves. Will NEVER put another team before my hometown teams.

BECAUSE I love them, I'm able to criticize them. When players screw up, when management makes a bad trade, when coaches make poor calls. They can't improve if the people who love them don't think there's anything wrong, right? If nobody holds them accountable for when the screw up.

The same goes with gaming. What good is it to be a fanboy who can't see what your preferred company does wrong?

[chrissx]

Its funny how we no longer hear about the power of the cloudz and how it can improve xbone lol. Its all clear now and will get clearer with time just hw big the gap btw Ps4 and xbone is

[Kivespussi]

It's going to be a LONG generation for MS
Only way I can see Xbox winning this gen is if Sony gets greedy...

[MRMagoo123]

MS can only hope to beat the WiiU this gen, and thats a stretch.

[mkis007]

Kind of over the top, if we are being serious Magoo? Do you really believe that is a stretch?

[MysticStrummer]

Yeah with the state of things in Nintendoland I'd say it's a stretch to say XB1 won't beat WiiU, but PS4 appears to be the clear early favorite in pretty much every way.

[AngelicIceDiamond]

Kinda hard to believe these "insiders" when all they're reporting is just negative.

Beside who exactly is following MS? Why not Nintendo or Sony with these insiders and rumors? Just curious.

EDIT: Ok all he saying is it'll get better than ddr3 but never will be as great as GDDR5.

We've already known that.

He states things will get better but it will never get as good as GDDR5. I guess the question is now HOW much better?

[dedicatedtogamers]

"Kinda hard to believe these "insiders" when all they're reporting is just negative."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but FamousMortimer also reported the rumor that the OS footprint was being reduced to allow for more resources to be used by games. Not all of his leaks have been negative.

"Beside who exactly is following MS? Why not Nintendo or Sony with these insiders and rumors? Just curious."

That's...a pretty legit question, actually. Might have something to do with how negative MS news is rather popular right now (take it or leave it, but that's a fact) and therefore more sought after. Also might have something to do with how Sony and Ninty are headquartered in Japan so maybe it's harder for us to get wind of leaks here in the West?

"I guess the question is now HOW much better?"

Hard to say. At worst, it won't get any better. At best, we could end up with a situation like PS3 vs 360 (in which the PS3 legitimately had worse hardware than 360 in several aspects) where the difference was made up by the fact that Sony's internal devs were much better tech wizards. If "power of the cloud" and all this other stuff actually pans out, maybe we'll see a similar situation a few years down the road.

[Freedomland]

You think X1 will improve with the passage of time and PS4 will stay the same.

Nice logic is there.

[johndoe11211]

@dedicatedtogames

"PS3 vs 360 (in which the PS3 legitimately had worse hardware than 360 in several aspects) where the difference was made up by the fact that Sony's internal devs were much better tech wizards."

The difference was made up in the cell processor which was ahead of it's time. Because the cell was so powerful it allowed for games to be designed that probably would not have been able to have been done on the 360. Even though it was lagging in all the other specs the cell gave it a boost that actually put it a little ahead of the 360.

[DevilishSix]

No no no never never never this is stupid the GPU in the PS4 is superior and it is not something the X1 can make up. Why is this arguement still raging.

Its simple you have two cars the PS4 being a corvette and the X1 a Nissan Altima. The Corvette is running on high test fuel (GDDR5). A turbo was add to the Altima (ESRAM) to help it keep up with the Corvette problem is the turbo is not a twin turbo (ESRAM to small) and its running on mid grade fuel (DDR3).

Who wins the race.

[Why o why]

'Beside who exactly is following MS? Why not Nintendo or Sony with these insiders and rumors? Just curious. '

Do people tend to watch the car in moving traffic or the car thats swerving into oncoming traffic.

If there's nothing to report, sometimes that means theres nothing to report or 'follow'

Ms's missteps have drawn additional attention. Who gets more media coverage..... The nobel prize winners or justin beiber causing issues.

[akurtz]

This will an interesting but FUN generation.

[Sven Benoit]

There definitely some kind of agenda against the xbox one. How come all of these "insiders" are leaking things about only the Xbox? Where's the leaks for the ps4? How about the Wii U? Honestly this is getting exhausting. It like the same articles everyday on this site.

[KakashiHotake]

What are you talking about, there's a doom article for the Wii U every hour on the hour. Nintendo's getting the worst of it. As for PS4, sticking with the point of the article it just doesn't have the bottlenecks that Xbox One has. There's no agenda here, just concrete facts. PS4 really is the more powerful and faster games machine. Microsoft gimped the Xbox One in favor of Kinect and that is the truth.

[Sven Benoit]

That's my point exactly. We know that the ps4 is more powerful than the xbox one, but must we see an article EVERYDAY about it? I mean seriously?

[dedicatedtogamers]

Some kind of agenda against X1? You're right, actually. I predicted this a year ago, prior to the X1 reveal:

http://n4g.com/user/blogpos...

It's not exactly like Microsoft didn't bring it on themselves, though...

[KakashiHotake]

I hear what your saying but unfortuntely that's the nature of the beast. When the media senses any weakness in something they exploit it to the maximum capacity. They won't stop until Microsoft either fixes their weaknesses or are completely destroyed, and even then their will be articles mocking their existence in the 1st place.

[cyber_daemonx]

@Sven. Its because there's nothing to leak. M$ have made f**k up after f**k up, vis a vis all the interest. The only agenda is M$ trying to completely dominate the videogame industry by any means.

[stuna1]

You know I used to think that same thing about the PS3!/s

Is it that obvious? Microsoft has made a bed of nails, it's just that they are being forced to lie in it.

[heisenberguk]

both next gen consoles were accused of being rushed out but it only seems to be the xbox that was rushed to me

[Kennytaur]

But what about the PS4 wobble?! :-P

Neither system had finished toolsets for developers in time for launch, but Sony was further along. Tools are rarely, if ever, at a good state for launch anyway as they're continually improved throughout the lifecycle.

[SKullDugger]

Thats your best shot?

[SKullDugger]

It was not rushed MS knew what they had and what they were doing pushing the gimmick of Kinect 2 WOW! they should have just built a gaming console not a doing eveything box thats not great at anything just average at everything. they should have used a better GPU and GDDR5 ram they skimped on the console to force Kinect 2 on everyone.

[windblowsagain]

I think what's funnier is the post below the original.

This.

josh hanlon @23hanlon
@atPeteDodd no I understand that but it will help with rendering 1080p 60fps on screen im told devs arnt use to esram not yet......

1080p@60fps.

GPU is what the problem is. Plain and simple.

[imt558]

Also the eSRAM is the problem. Developers will use eSRAM for framebuffer and 32 MB isn't enough for rendering 1080p image with decent effects ( nice AA, lightning, DOF, global illumination, etc. ) and 30 fps. Downgrades or nothing.

[kakashi81]

48-64MB of ESram would have been nice, also going with amd 7790 instead of 7770 would have been nice also.

[SynestheticRoar]

I have a feeling that the proverbial cat is out of the bag. Now more individuals will come to the forefront revealing this truth. PS4 is more powerful in every aspect.

[aondaatje]

Not in every aspect. Hardware yes. Software not even in the same ballpark

[quenomamen]

" Doesn't matter PS4 is going to choke in the future trying to compete with XB1 when it comes to cloud compute enhanced games and XB1's over 16gigs of memory(8gigs of RAM, 8gigs of flash, dedicated audio chip, Move Engines etc) for games and future features, UI etc. "

Lolz, over 16 gigs of memory ! Yea and don't forget the second secret GPU bro ! You must be from Colorado right ? Cuz it sounds like you been hitting some of that legal Kush coming up with them numbers.

[kakashi81]

Trolling ... but I still feel like MS should have went with 48-64MB for the ESram. Edit : they did go with the 7790 but they cut a few cores out. They have 12 instead of 14....smh now the shaders would be at 856 vs 762. Now every lil bit helps ya know.

[Ko_Uraki]

Good times when insiders shared secrets about games

[Rock_On_PS4]

XBox One is $100 more expensive and is less powerful than the PS4. The $100 difference is the lousy Kinect 2.0 Camera built into the XBox One.

Wake Up Microsoft ditch Kinect 2.0 and release a non Kinect version of XBox One with a price tag matching PS4.

[mmj]

Even without Kinect Xbone doesn't deserve to be the same price as PS4 considering the inferior specification.

[GamingNerd013]

True to that it be like 350$.

[mmj]

Like the article says ESRAM is just a continuation of EDRAM in Xbox 360... it worked well last generation Microsoft just didn't expect Sony architects to be so proficient when designing PS4.

So if this article correct not only is Xbone hobbled massively by its GPU (compared to PS4) but ESRAM as well.

[infectedaztec]

Look guys, tech specs or no tech specs, I've yet to see a game that looks better than Ryse (including shadowfall). As you that didnt play well but hey, power is the topic here, not gameplay.

At the moment, the difference between multiplats is only noticable (by me) when I look at high def side by side comparison vids in slow mo.....and even then I have to squint.

I'm not refuting any of the quotes by Todd (though the article itself if full of bias and can't be considered journalism) but if the differences between the consoles are not big enough for me to notice then it really doesn't make a difference to me.

I'm sure I'll get disagrees despite the entire thing being my personal opinion.

[GamingNerd013]

While that's is ur opinion I disagree with ryse looking better. The only thing I seen it looks slightly better at is the chars. Faces that's it otherwise killzone kills it in everything else with graphics and plus it's a fun game and a lot more worth 4 ur money then ryse as it gets boring and really worst combat system I seen yet with blend story.

[SonyROXitoohya]

Lol killzone is boring and stale, also nobody plays online, I was just there and literally 11 people haha. Killzone lol I like my ps4 but that game sucks

[TristanPR77]

Remember when Microsoft tried to deny this? Lying to their customers saying there was no difference in power between the consoles.

Now that it is proven and validated by many developers, we don't here Microsoft saying a thing. Of course not, they already sold their weak console to many, they got away with it.

[Azzanation]

ESRAM isn't a bottleneck. A bottleneck is when something is stopping the system from its potential. ESRAM is simply a option. If its used there's benefits, if it isn't used you wouldn't notice a difference.

The PS3 was bottlenecked but it didn't stop developers from finding ways around it.

[hello12]

The only difference with both consoles will be the resolution. The multiplatform games will play out the exact same on both consoles. Thats just a fact. Experiences will be the same, for gamers.

The fact is though the xb1 GPU is weaker than the PS4 one and there is nothing can be done with that.

PS4 will achieve better results. Does it matter not really, because i believe games and the online experience is what mastters most.

Microsoft my view currently has a better game lineup. Online x box live is a superior service.

But i accept the XB1 hardware is inferior to the PS4 hardware. Microsoft unfortunately made the wrong choice going with Kinect is should have been an optional purchase.

And better GPU and ram should have been used.

[SilentNegotiator]

What happens when a game can only get 720p30fps on Ps4, though? 480p30fps on Xbox One?

[hello12]

720p is the standard on the xb1 console, 480 will not happen. The GPU can manage 720p and 900p no problem, the issue is 1080p it more tasking on the GPU side.

[XiSasukeUchiha]

Hmm MS you guys need to wake up from your dream because ESRAM is a bottleneck and unless you want compete with sony in power again Do something, get rid of Kinect 2, and actually prove cloud computing !

[Wikkid666]

Who wrote that article? Repeat after repeat!

[DoubleM70]

The almighty PS4. Straight horse power no doubt about that. Off the shelf PC parts less customization easy to develope for.

PS4 lead system architect Mark Cerny set about talking about the bottlenecks that the console faces despite its power. Of course, this is all so that the team could consider ways for developers to work around them.
“With graphics, the first bottleneck you’re likely to run into is memory bandwidth. Given that 10 or more textures per object will be standard in this generation, it’s very easy to run into that bottleneck. Quite a few phases of rendering become memory bound, and beyond shifting to lower bit-per-texel textures, there’s not a whole lot you can do.
“Our strategy has been simply to make sure that we were using GDDR5 for the system memory and therefore have a lot of bandwidth.”
And if memory isn’t the bottleneck? “If you’re not bottlenecked by memory, it’s very possible – if you have dense meshes in your objects – to be bottlenecked on vertices. And you can try to ask your artists to use larger triangles, but as a practical matter, it’s difficult to achieve that. It’s quite common to be displaying graphics where much of what you see on the screen is triangles that are just a single pixel in size. In which case, yes, vertex bottlenecks can be large.
“There are a broad variety of techniques we’ve come up with to reduce the vertex bottlenecks, in some cases they are enhancements to the hardware. The most interesting of those is that you can use compute as a frontend for your graphics.”
Cerny describes this as “a mix of hardware, firmware inside of the GPU, and compiler technology. What happens is you take your vertex shader, and you compile it twice, once as a compute shader, once as a vertex shader. The compute shader does a triangle sieve – it just does the position computations from the original vertex shader and sees if the triangle is backfaced, or the like.

Read more at http://gamingbolt.com/mark-...

[DJ]

Good link, thanks!

[DoubleM70]

@DJ

It's to shows that PS4 also have bottle necks to.

[mmj]

Cerny and those who worked with him to design PS4 need a huge pat on the back, all of the modifications they've made to PS4's GPU to enhance compute performance will ensure that the gap to Xbone remains roughly the same if not widens in a few years.

I'd love to be fly on the wall in Microsoft HQ, they've done the console development equivalent of turning up to a gun fight with a knife.

[jhoward585]

MS of all people should know that the ESRAM in the x1 wasn't enough.

Game files are normally huge because of loads of textures.

Also, texture normally take up between 40-50 percent of memory space in a single game.

so yeah a much bigger ESRAM was definitely needed in this case.

[Crypt0117]

It's an evolution of the highly praised Xbox 360 architecture. Not sure why we are having this discussion, it a myth and a farce.

[lesrima88]

im sick and tired of these spec articles ,resolution/frame rate arguments what happened to just talking and getting excited about games??we are gamers aren't we?this is the generation of arm chair developers smh

[kewlkat007]

N4g devs at it again..

[360ICE]

It's bottle neck, everyone. It IS bottle neck.

[saber00005]

Uhhh... GDDR5 ram outperforms Xbox's 4 to 1 in speed. Not sure that this information is liable...

[D3athc3ll]

I like pie..

[Nine_Thousaaandd]

Bottom line is....Microsoft screwed up, they know this...fanboys know it, yet you still defend them by say cloud and ESRAM will prevail in time....no it won't! PS4 was built around games purely...no camera sucking up performance, live tv...etc. Even the developers know and confirmed that the PS4 is better at game development. Why Microsoft is buying out so many 3rd party games to keep Sony from having 'em...because they will most likely look better, and play better due to DS4 and better hardware specs. Not only will X1 have to compete with PS4, but those fantastic PC rigs as well...I'm sure Titanfall will look much better on PC, and perform better as well. The X1 if not compared to current PC rigs and PS4...is pretty amazing...thats coming from a PS fan...but overall in this generation...it lacks for gaming! Nothing they can do at this point will close the gap to PS4 and PC!

[russo121]

IMO xbone is a big F.U.C.K. - Failure, Underpowered Console King!!!

[jairusmonillas]

lol xbox one can't even maintain 30fps when running 1080p.

blame the mandatory kinect, kinect is the reason xbox one specs are cheap. hahaha

[cruzngta]

At the end of the day the measly 32 mb of ESRAM is more of a hindrance because of the obvious problems developers have had working with it. It is like a band aid applied to help try and speed up things with the ddr3 in the XB1. The PS4 just has faster better memory for graphics - End of story. The games are showing the edge it is giving them. I would like to see if developers and MS can put their heads together and try to come up with a definitive plan on how to best use what they have because if not then that 32 mb esram is basically useless against the more powerful PS4.

[elninels]

Does it matter?

[SonyROXitoohya]

Jeez u sony fans are so defensive, it's disgusting how u all act. I like my ps4 but I literally can't stand the fan base. What's wrong with y'all? Everyone who bought an xbox one did so knowing it was less powerful from the get go, it's nothing new. They still bought it anyway even at a $100 price increase. Everyone doesn't like or want a ps4, get over it. Teenage fans getting so defensive and angry that everyone doesn't like the ps4, wow that's life. How about you talk up our ps4 instead of trying to talk down the xbox one? Wow our system is more powerful, the only ones who care are you pathetic fanboys and it seems you just care as you want to brag, as if you did anything but buy a system, pathetic. Makes me sad I'm a ps4 owner as I cannot stand the lot of you. Are you so upset that the xbox one is selling millions of consoles, right behind the ps4? Seems so. Are you angry they getting good exclusives? Yep seems so. Are you mad that a less powerful more expensive console is keeping pace with our powerful ps4? Yup again, seems so. Read your comments and then see how defensive and angry you are, it's obvious you are jealous or nervous about the xbox one, all ur posts reek of desperation, it's so pathetic and sad.

Try to stick up for yourselves by replying, it won't work, you're ignorant posts speak all the proof anyone needs to hear. Disgusting, giving gamers such a bad name. Ugh. Giving us ps4 owners a bad rap. None of you deserve a reply from me, you can't deny the BS you write or try to back it up, it's pure fan boy childish behavior, y'all deserve all the hate ps4 owners get. Now get lost.