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Submitted by john2 405d ago | news

John Carmack: Nvidia's OpenGL extensions rival Mantle, 8GBs on consoles not a significant change

DSOGaming writes: "Earlier yesterday, John Carmack shared his thoughts on AMD’s Mantle. During Nvidia’s Montreal event, Carmack claimed that although he would be tempted to use Mantle, he would not do such a thing at this point. Carmack claimed that it’s not stupid – for AMD – to attempt something like that, however he believed that Sony and Microsoft would not embrace it. But why is Carmack against this new API?" (John Carmack, PC, PS4, Xbox One)

Update Full title should be "John Carmack: Nvidia's OpenGL extensions rival Mantle, 8GBs on consoles not a significant change over PCs with 4GBs"

Due to the 100 words limit of N4G, that was not possible, thus some readers misinterpreted it. Carmack did not comment on old-gen consoles vs next-gen consoles.

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The_Infected  +   405d ago | Well said
"8GBs on consoles not a significant change"

I don't care what he says. I look at what was achieved with 512MB ram on PS3 and I have no worries at all. Sony's first party studies especially ND blew me away.
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Lukas_Japonicus  +   405d ago
Pretty much exactly what i was about to say, TLOU was achieved on 512Mb RAM, that is INSANE. 1st party games for both next gen consoles are going to be crazy, i can't wait.
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FamilyGuy  +   405d ago
This guy is full of sh.

He keeps making bs statements about consoles even though he's not doing anything on consoles.
I wish people would just ignore this guy, max level PC Elitist, downplaying anything console related.

Why even comment, why even ask him for a comment when he isn't making a game for either console?

“I don’t think it will make games look very different, but it will help them to be developed somewhat quicker and easier.”

Larger open-world environments "look very different" to me. Yes, it's quicker developing with it too as devs don't have to optimize as much to cater to a low amount of RAM restricting what they want to do.
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dedicatedtogamers  +   405d ago
Yeah, Carmack is just being a PC whore (as usual). For years and years, he lamented how consoles didn't have enough RAM and how he could make games SO much better if only he had more RAM.

Okay...so here's the RAM you asked for and now it's not a significant change? Riiiiight.
rdgneoz3  +   405d ago
I thought he'd be jumping for joy seeing how "well" the megatextures did in Rage on consoles. The popins were horrendous...
Ezz2013  +   405d ago
this guy made a few FPS games back in the day that were good ..not great
and failed hard and badly this gen with his sad excuse of a game (Rage)
and yet, some people treat him as the one who invented video games or something
hated most of his games...only liked Doom 3 and not by much

8GB GDDR5 Ram is overkill already on ps4 ...and now he say "not a significant change" ?!

going from 512mb DDR3 to 8GB GDDR5 is HUGE and significant change ....no matter how he spin it
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mistertwoturbo  +   405d ago
He's actually a genius, but doesn't mean he's always right.
fghtrer3fb5erg  +   405d ago
256MB not 512MB, if ps3 could afford to have 512MB then cross chat wouldnt be an issue.
Saviour  +   405d ago
Well he got a point, even with 8gb ram consoles cant do crysis 3 and metro at max 1080p/60fps. But that may change in maybe 2-3 years.
EXVirtual  +   405d ago
Exactly. Even though the PS4 and XBO aren't using the full 8gb of RAM for games (6.5GB and 5 GB respectively, correct me if I'm wrong) what could be done with 512MB can only let you imagine what 5 or 6 could do, especially later on in the gen. Carmack can spin it all he wants, but from 512mb to 8gb is significant. Other devs have been saying that they're satisfied with the amount of RAM as well.
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GTgamer  +   405d ago
http://www.vg247.com/2013/0... here he praises the PS4 engineering so idk why he's saying that 8gbs gddr5 isn't different from 4gbs gddr5 why even make 8 if its the same tbh.
Chrischi1988  +   405d ago
If you think about the weak CPU, he is probably right. People have to understand, that the hardware of a PC or a console have to interact and the weakest part defines the power of that computer. The CPU is weak, so why have 8gb of ram?

@lightofdarkness:

Do not become angry, what do you expect on a PS4 fanboy site like this one here? The best of the industry say something bad about the PS4, than all he says isnt worth anything anymore^^ Like he knows nothing, but wait, he knows probably more, than anyone on this site, stating he doesnt know anything, so this is how ridiculous the fanboys on this site are, just look at the number of disagrees on the top comments here and they didnt say much bad things. Prove right on top.
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LightofDarkness  +   405d ago
"this guy made a few FPS games back in the day that were good ..not great"

You have no idea what you're talking about. id FPS games back in the day were the cream of the crop. People are still playing Quake 3 as one of the most competitive and skill based games ever made in championships the world over. The Doom and Quake series set the standard for the entire genre, including competitive multiplayer and level design. id were VERY far ahead of the game for years.

Doom 3 and RAGE are not great titles, I'll grant you that, but that is not enough to wipe away the immense contributions to gaming he and his team at id have made. Just because he's not hyping up next gen consoles and isn't telling you the things you want to hear does NOT in any way strip him of his credibility and it's frankly hilarious that you people think you know better.

He's not an "elitist", he's a man at the forefront of his profession who prefers to work with the latest and greatest technologies, which are found on PC. Consoles have never been about being bleeding edge performance, they're always about being affordable set-top boxes that play games in your living room. He's not wrong in what he's stating, he's a guy that's looking about 3-5 years down the road at where tech will be when his next big project drops.

"512mb to 8gb " READ THE ARTICLE. He's not talking about that at all, he's responding to a question of whether 8GB of RAM is a significant leap over PCs with 4GBs, which it isn't. A PC with 4GB of system RAM likely has a GPU with 2-3GB of GDDR5 RAM, both of which are suited to work better with either the CPU or GPU. There's no big advantage there. He's not being a pessimist or blasting the PS4, he's stating an obvious fact.
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No FanS Land  +   405d ago
I want a showdown between John Carmack and Mark Cerny, hahaha!
johndoe11211  +   405d ago
I'm sorry, but I have to ask if John is on crack. I've always admired the guy and most of his opinions but I have to ask what is his angle with this statement.

To make a comment like that, it's either he's looking for attention or deliberately trying to downplay the ps4 and Xbox one. It doesn't matter if it's gddr5 or ddr3, 8gigs of ram in any console is spectacular.

This is the point where we have to be cautious about the things that come out of his mouth now. He has an agenda.

Maybe i'm being little bit of a conspiracy theorist here but i wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that he was talking at a nvidia conference, the same nvidia that seems to be butt hurt about the fact that all nextgen console use amd chips. I'm probably just reaching who knows.
justiceot  +   405d ago
I was watching the behind the scene video for TLOU where the developers kept mentioning how they were constrained, in terms of the things they can put in the game, by the amount of ram the ps3 currently has. They merely had 512Mb of ram to work with but managed to produce something so graphically impressive. Now 8Gbs? Yes, it may not be sufficient for gaming PCs in the upcoming years, but it definitely is quite a significant jump for consoles and I'd think the developers would not be heavily limited by ram— at least not in the beginning.
Ezz2013  +   405d ago
@LightofDarkness

i admit i didn't read the article ....the title is very misleading
i thought he was talking about this gen and next gen
so i didn't bother with the article
my mistake :)
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Serg  +   405d ago
Once again, proving himself to be brilliant but short sighted. His comments make it clear that he is thinking about the situation right now, rather than down the line. He doesn't take into account that console hardware will need to stay relevant for almost a decade, until the next generation of consoles arrives. While he may not see the additional 4GBs of ram as significant now, things will be a lot different 4,5,6 or even 7 years down the line. He just doesn't see it.

The exact same technology will be in a factory-new PS4 unit 7 years from now. Components will change significantly, making them smaller, quieter, cheaper and more efficient in terms of power usage, but they still share the exact same tech specs as the launch units.

The more comments I hear or read from Carmack, the more I believe the fame got to his head. I think he isn't concerned with the accuracy of his statements anymore, that his status will make people believe whatever he says without question, thus he doesn't see the need to educate himself on things before commenting on them, and simply applying his outdated existing knowledge to new things, resulting in what we see here.
inveni0  +   405d ago
Carmack will soon lose his rep. He's being out-shined by a number of other devs. His megatexture crap barely worked, even on my PC at the time (which had 16GB RAM and a 1GB 460SE). So he's slowing turning into a less artistic and more nerdy version of Molyneux.
XB1_PS4  +   405d ago
The is JOHN CARMACK. I am having a hard time doubting anything he says. Although 8gbs>512mbs, any day, anytime.
Dasteru  +   405d ago
@DatRamboX:

The PS3 actually has 462MB of usable ram, only 43MB of the XDR and 7MB of the DDR3 are reserved for the OS.
meetajhu  +   405d ago
Dear God everyone commented above me are all programming geniuses who has held 2 analog sticks in their entire life time.

How could people possibly bash anything Carmack says? If it wasn't him we wouldn't have gaming at this stage? Did you even know that he is the first person responsible to write GPU support and one the reason Opengl even exists even today? He is sole reason GPU's where even manufactured. He is the reason we are seeing 3d games today. He is the reason we have superior mutliplayers game and MMO's coz of his open sourced Quake 3 network code.

Without him you would have never seen so many companies. When Carmack made Quake all companies where making 2d or 3d sprites games. Carmack is not a programmer he is a scientist. Quake was the first game to demo 30fps and 60fps with 3dx gpu. Carmack is the first person to write software Audio. There is nothing he hasn't done.

And stop comparing him to Mark Cerny. Mark Cerny has done nothing to gaming.
tee_bag242  +   405d ago
So many of you children have no idea. Have some respect for a pioneer. He is still the guy who pioneers technology and software that eventually trickles down to consoles. Learn how to read media and how it's taken out of context!
You think he doesn't know what he's talking about by rattling off old games he's made but actually have no idea what he does now. Uneducated fools, go back to school.
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boneso82  +   405d ago
And only 256mb of that 512mb was used for graphics, no PC with an 8 year old processor and 512mb of RAM could run TLOU, or GTA5 for that matter, or most AAA current gen games.

He's saying the comparison was made to 4gb RAM in PC's, I dunno, I just don't trust this guy anymore, he's talking at an Nvidia event and downplaying the consoles that AMD, Nvidia's main rivals, are supplying the hardware for.

If he was referencing a PC with 4gb of RAM that is also running a GTX TItan with 4gb of gddr5 and an i7 processor then he might be right, but PC platform is too open for him to say "not a significant change". If the PC with 4gb of RAM was running a single core pentium processor and a $40 graphics cards it couldn't touch even current gen consoles, never mind next gen. Pinch of salt on this one me thinks...

Ps @ meetajhu, you are making out that if this guy didn't exist then we wouldn't have GPU's or 3d polygons or online gaming, are you serious? If you are then WOW, just, WOW!
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Computersaysno  +   404d ago
Easiest thing to see this is what happens when nobody reads the article and clicks through only comments on the headlining title and text.

Utter classic situation, so many idiots guilty of this.

He compares 8Gb in the consoles to 4Gb on PC, and how its not much of a difference.

Well it isn't, for a start the consoles only seem to have 5Gb of memory for games, while a PC has separate pools typically 2Gb for video memory and maybe 3Gb for games if you take 1Gb away for windows.

Try and read the article self proclaimed genuises who can't even click through and read the damn thing themselves.
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humbleopinion  +   404d ago
Beautiful. So many commenters here just showed how they never even bother to read an article beyond summarized and misleading headlines.

There should be some kind of achievement in N4G marking people with "doesn't bother reading" brand.
kingduqc  +   405d ago
“I don’t think it will make games look very different, but it will help them to be developed somewhat quicker and easier.”

SEEMS PRETTY CLEAT TO ME,

When john talk, you guys should listen... he a genius of the industry. Dev are scratching their heads what to do with that because it's not as useful as you think, It's only memory guys, it does not compute things and with the low end gpu they got inside consoles bandwidth is not that much of a deal. One one the reason why dev where so happy with that amount of ram is because they got starved for 8 years so it was a breath of fresh air for them.
hazardman  +   405d ago
Damn right... I know this dude is a dev but still how is 8gb of ram not significant on consoles?
theXtReMe1  +   405d ago
Carmack is and has been irrelevant for 20 years. He just tries to get rises out of people to feed his ego and remain in the news. Its funny how he feels 8GBs of DDR5 RAM is irrelevant... yet the highest end PC graphics cards only have 6GBs and cost $1000 or more.

Every time he speaks, the worlds IQ drops 10 points.
LightofDarkness  +   405d ago
20 years? 20 years ago he made DOOM. Then 3 Quake games that were incredibly relevant, seeing as that engine is still used in the most popular FPS game available today (crappy though it may be). Please don't talk about things you obviously have no clue about. It shows that you don't have 10 IQ points to drop.
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Chrischi1988  +   405d ago
You guys compare things, that have nothing to do with one another.

On a PC, if you develop a game, you dont know, what kind of setup the buyer of your game will have, that why they give you minimum requirements and the fragmentation of each individual PC has to be put into account to make the game work, so you need good graphic cards with high videomemory. On consoles, you do not need that much, because you can tailor the game around the known hardware of a console. 8gb is a lot and not needed on a console. videomemory and the normal ram in a console/pc do totally different things, they are both memories, but for different things. The Edram and Esram in the Xbox1 and Wii U make totally up for the not available ram in the system.

I do not care if I get disagrees because of this, because I see on this side PS4 fans are busy crashing every article that says something not perfect for their console and downvoting anybody who believes there might be something to the news.

It is funny how everybody on here bashes PC gaming, as if Consoles are any different, no it goes even far behind that, PC gaming is bad, but everything that makes the console more like a PC, is a perfect decision^^ c'mon
_QQ_  +   405d ago
I just know is i'm hyped for PS4
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allgamespc2012   405d ago | Offensive
Campy da Camper  +   405d ago
Bubs for well said. And, hello?!? Beyond Two Souls was a beast! He's saying with 16x the RAM he cant do much more with his next game? Quantic Dreams made that masterpiece with 512mb...Jesus lol

Love John, maybe he had too many lemon drops last night.
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windblowsagain  +   405d ago
Rage just did not cut it.

Sorry john, i know your smart, but 512mvb vs even 4gb is massive.

Doom3 was decent and one of my fav mp games was quake3.

But after then it just goes down hill for i.d.

Many devs have gone way past that.

ND
santa monica
dmitrijs88  +   405d ago
Carmack go and make games, instead of talking nonsense.
ALLWRONG  +   405d ago
What next "I don't care what Einstein says"?
Tontus  +   405d ago
John Carmack is just bitter that Rage never got praise for its technical prowess the same way God of War III, the UC games, TLoU, Killzone, Gears series etc got. T

They were all achieved with a pathetic 512mb of ram, just imagine what's possible on PS4/Xbone, it is a significant upgrade.
jetlian  +   405d ago
one this isnt about ps360 and two rage was and is more of a tech marvel than those games

rage was 720p, 60fps with massive areas. Animation on enemies was the best ive seen
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Irishguy95  +   404d ago
Nice one showing you have **** all knowledge on technology.
Jamaicangmr  +   405d ago
Damn sometimes this guy and his God complex can be such a downer.
fullmetal297  +   405d ago
Actually developers target ram was 256mb for the PS3 because the much slower DDR3 would bottleneck the PS3's XDR memory if they were to include it in development.
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cj1pate101  +   405d ago
What hes trying to say is you are limited to 6 gigs for the game. The other 2 are used for what ever xmb or operating system the ps4 will have.
showtimefolks  +   405d ago
John i respect your opinion but please make a game that's up to ID's standards than we will talk, how long are you gonna live on your past success

there are so many John Carmack fanboys on every site, holding on to every word he says because he did something years back,

FamilyGuy

people will never ignore him because in their eyes he is a legend

SlavisH2

listen to someone who hasn't been able to do anything special on ps3/xbox360 while so many others have and now he has the guts to bash next gen consoles which have really stepped their game up

going from 512MB to 8 GB ram yes its nothing what so ever

the biggest delusional people are John Carmack fanboys

John Carmack make a excellent game that takes advantage o xbox one and ps4 before talking, your past success holds no value now since you couldn't even make Rage run like its suppose to on consoles and that wasn't even an open world game
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SephirothX21  +   404d ago
Its amazing how people will be ignorant of facts just because it suits them. Carmack is an absolute game legend. He has written numerous game engines for numerous graphics apis for many different types of hardware. As a game programmer myself, trust me when I say he knows what he's talking about. 4gb unified GDDR5 with higher clock speed will outperform 8gb GDDR5 with lower clock speed. Though PS4's OS could use up to 2gb so maybe it makes sense to have 8gb instead of 4.

In regard to Mantle, I wonder if DirectX 11.2 on Windows 8.1 will offer similar performance.
Imalwaysright  +   404d ago
@ Ezz2013 "this guy made a few FPS games back in the day that were good"

This guy IS THE REASON why FPS exist so if you want to talk about him go and learn about the history of this industry. Also he knows more about programming than all of you so called "N4g expert programmers" combined and his opinion is no doubt 100% more valuable than yours.

If you and all the other "N4g experts" actually read the article you guys wouldn't look like idiots.
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SlavisH2  +   405d ago | Funny
*Listen to a industry vet(not indie) or die hard fanboys?
*Years of experience and working with the actual hardware vs hopes, dreams, and delusions.
* Reality vs. Fantasy world(w/ magical pixies:)
*Established Credibility vs Seasoned bloggers

.....what to do what to do?
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SilentNegotiator  +   405d ago
Developers, indie and nonindie alike, have been singing praises of having 8GB of GDDR3 at their disposal.

The only delusion is from you, pretending like Carmack is the only professional to ever comment on the matter.
SilentNegotiator  +   405d ago
Obviously I meant GDDR5.
solar  +   405d ago
if his name was Mark Cerny....
SilentNegotiator  +   404d ago
if his name was "the only professional game developer on the planet"...
Mohlest   405d ago | Spam
Erudito87  +   405d ago
This guy obviously has no idea how apus work
SonyNGP  +   405d ago
The answer is obviously the Kwik-E-Mart.
AndrewLB  +   405d ago
Yes... John Carmack doesn't know how APUs work. Nor does he know anything about directX, openGL, x86, making his own game engines instead of paying for the rights to use someone elses, or always pushing the envelope in graphics technology where nobody else has. Yea, he's had some recent flops, but Carmack is always on the cutting edge of graphics technology and is definitely one of the most knowledgeable programmers out there.
Erudito87  +   405d ago
rage and doom bfg edition show that lol. He's a relic and does know more about programming etc but for him to talk up dx and say how relevant it is in a time where major parts of the gaming industry are moving away from ms(steam os mantle etc) means he's probably being paid by nvidia(are incredibly but hurt by amd tech in consoles and have made an insane amount of bs butthurt comments) and ms(ms has a long history of this sort of business practise)
fullmetal297  +   405d ago
@AndrewLB
And I suppose you have the technical expertise to make that judgement against him. Lets see the how many achievements you have made compared to him... oh yeah that's right, NONE.
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the worst   405d ago | Bad language | show
WarThunder  +   405d ago
I like John Carmack.
But you don't need more than 8gb of GDDR5 to make good looking gamese even 4gb of GDDR5 is enough right now.

Maybe in the far future but not now...
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john2  +   405d ago
at this point, I believe that 6GB of GDDR5 (or even 4) with higher frequency clocks would be way better. Because this all sounds like the blu-ray hype we've been getting for PS3 (you know, when even devs claimed that blu-ray would boost the visuals due to its bigger size, that it was too much, etc.)
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Studio-YaMi  +   405d ago
But a Blu-ray DOES hold much more into it & movies on it DO looks better because you won't need to cut back or compress anything on it.

Look at the Xbox360 version of Final Fantasy 13 and how horrible the CGI cut-scenes looked like compared to the PS3 ones.

Even PCs & next gen uses Blu-ray/Blu-ray Drives,as I see it,more is better than less.
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Erudito87  +   405d ago
with apus performance is dramtically increased by lots of fast ram
AndrewLB  +   405d ago
REally? More-so than desktop CPU's? Care to show me actual proof comparing the performance gains in an apples to apples comparison with say... an i7?

Hate to break it to you but a powerful CPU like an i7 has far more ability to utilize the bandwidth and buffering capabilities in large amounts of fast memory compared to an APU.
Erudito87  +   405d ago
What the hell are you on about? intels have apus aswell but dont put as much resources into it as amd. My i5 2500k is an apu(a cpu and gpu onto a single chip) why do you think motherboards have hdmi and other ports?

There are more than one type of setup. My gaming rig has a dedicated gpu wth a normal apu(most if not all cpus these days have a gpu on them aswell) and the rest of typical components. However my media rig uses only a 3570k and no dedicated gpu as its an apu good enough for 080p playback.
Nivalis  +   405d ago
DSO gaming sucks, poor journalism and spam filled add plastered site they clearly claim both Xbox and ps4 use ddr5 in the article when it's ddr3 and gddr5.. terrible
shahab91  +   405d ago
Ok I will try to be neutral and i'll say that 8gb ram on both consoles is a significant jump and more than enough for both consoles. I respect carmack's opinion but other devs have expressed their satisfaction over the amount of ram in these next gen consoles. So it's kind of confusing. But in the end, lets ignore these numbers. Pc, x1,ps4 and wii u all will produce visually stunning and amazing games in the years to come. =) be happy with whatever your fav platform is. You are in a for a treat.
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moodgamer  +   405d ago
Has good has he can be, i dont get that statment. He was one of the first people to "demand" at least 8GB on next gen consoles or they would fail. So WTF?
Inception  +   405d ago
John, where's Doom 4? You promise us years ago that you will show us Doom 4. But here we are two months from the end of 2013 and there's still no new info / screeshots / trailer / release date for Doom 4 from you -_-
Reem  +   405d ago
Says the guy who din't make a significant game since years
MidnytRain  +   405d ago
We're resorting to ad hominems now?
Trekster_Gamer  +   405d ago
Carmak...

He is no longer the leading authority. He started the FPS genre and I will always be thankful of that, but he has not made a game that really blows away any other triple AAA in many years. Rage was pretty fun but it still looked weak in many respects compared to other games.
djplonker  +   405d ago
The key words are

"during nvidia montreal event"

you know the company that lost out on ps4/xbone parts because they thought they could charge what they like and clearly they are still butt hurt over it....
xXxSeTTriPxXx  +   405d ago
They guy is a genius (one of the few great minds in the gaming business)

But he is a pc fanboy douche and everytime he opens his piewhole about consoles expect it to be negative.
Pancit_Canton  +   405d ago
He' stealth depending the Xbone because of it's weaker ram. Yet he's been saying for years that console needs higher bandwidth to be able to run his games. He's either a hyprocrite or douce.
Pancit_Canton  +   405d ago
Also, he knows nothing about future proofing the console since he mostly works on PC where you can just upgrades components to get what you need. This guy is stuck on the 80's mentality.
Drummerdude41  +   405d ago
He is right in the fact that the amount of memory isn't going to help make a game look better just by sheer size. That only helps with being able to handle large amounts of textures at once like having large maps (ie skyrim, bf4) loaded. But the speed at which it loads the textures is not related to the size and that is what Carmick is referring too. With higher speeds you could load 4k textures at the same speed you could load the 1k textures. That's one of the major bottlenecks. You could have 16gb of memory but wouldn't do you any good if you had to watch the textures load cause the gpu couldn't keep up with the the size and amount of textures coming in. Now i'm not saying i completely agree with him but saying there are points. In comparison to pc gaming it isn't a leap. Its a parallel. They both run off of similar architectures. But Consoles have coding straight to the metal so to speak so they can optimize games for how the memory draws information etc.. the majority of pc gamers have better machines. Only the code has to work with a broader market of hardware creating some less than optimal performance issues within games.
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john2  +   405d ago
Precisely. Carmack did not compare old-gen with next-gen consoles. He was asked whether it was a significant change between PCs equipped with 4GBs and these consoles. Funny how people started cursing him before even reading.
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pete007  +   405d ago
Carmack is absolute right. Before, consoles had nice cpu/gpu but lacked ram, bcause it was pricy to have lots of ram. Now consoles have lots of ram and complicated ram subsystems but crappy cpu/gpu!!
I would rather have a good cpu/gpu combo than a ram based system.
Cheers
#17 (Edited 405d ago ) | Agree(12) | Disagree(9) | Report | Reply
Theendgame  +   405d ago
Crappy Cpu. The Gpu's in both consoles are both pretty good.
pete007  +   405d ago
Back on 2005 ati provided xbox with not à hi end gpu, but instead with à completly new architecture. Ps3 had a cutting edge cpu and wasnt better because of memory constraints. Xdr+ddr3 all mixed on an ancient config. Etc. Not to mentionz nvidia screw with its 7800, a few months before releasing their dx10 cards.breff, now we have tablet cpu, multi,multi,multi threaded wich i think breaking code to each core will lead to innefficiencies
StraightedgeSES  +   405d ago
Gotta love the people who didn't read the article cause if you did you would see more than just the headlines.
Wikkid666  +   405d ago
More ram just means developers can be lazy and make sloppy code.
Chrischi1988  +   405d ago
But the CPU and GPU have also to be able to handle that amount somehow. What does a big workspace benefit you, if you do not have enough men to use it efficiently. This is why I believe PS4 is a brute force maschine and not a very thoughtful chosen one, where every piece of hardware was exactly fitted to the other hardware, so the weakest part, which gives the actual speed, isnt actually the weakest part.
Visiblemarc  +   405d ago
Carmack is definitely sorta past his sell-by date in terms for how dialed in he is to gaming culture. That's been the case for a long time. That said, most are seemingly misconstruing his comments. I think he's saying that a console with 8 gbs memory won't beat a much more powerful pc with 4 gbs, but yeah, obviously. At the same time coding doesn't have to be as optimized, thus faster dev time. He does seem pretty oblivious to the fact that consoles hold many advantages over pcs though. What kind of pc would be needed to run The Last of Us or Beyond: Two Souls?
illustratedDEO  +   405d ago
john carmack the ass in the hat
Brix90  +   405d ago
8gb ram > 512mb ram

Idk seems pretty significant to me as far as ram goes. No doubt John knows what hes talking about but like Cerny said John as smart guy but thinks way ahead.
Mithan  +   405d ago
I love this thread, it shows exactly what is wrong with most of you people.

YOU think you guys know more than John Carmack.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FrigidDARKNESS  +   405d ago
Carmack has sour grapes and taking shots at Amd for using DX 11.2 Direct3d tile Resources instead of Megatexturing. Taking a shot at Sony and MS for choosing AMD that will support AMD chips instead of Nvidia..
Trago1337  +   405d ago
So when Carmack says something in favor of the consoles, it's fine and dandy, but when he says something against them, you guys wont accept that, considering that this is CARMACK we're talking about.

N4G logic.

Also, READ the article guys.
#25 (Edited 405d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
AD705  +   405d ago
I remember two years ago when he stated in an interview that he thinks the 360 is the best console ever. Ps3 fanboys went on a riot and called him a 360 fanboy for saying the 360 was better than the ps3.
AD705  +   405d ago
So John caramack Is irrelevant because he hasn't made a bunch of great games in a while? So tell me N4g commenters how are all the great games you've been making as of late? Did any of them turn AAA yet?

John is not dissing consoles here he just saying that the RAM next gen consoles will have won't make games look that much better and even goes on to praise it saying developers will get games out quicker on consoles because of it.
TheUndertaker85  +   405d ago
Oh, you say he's a game developer so it's actually his job to make quality games? You also say that most of the N4G community isn't game developers? Oh, and you say that if even one of those users works at a burger place you happen to walk into and doesn't make your stuff correctly then you're going to complain even though you've probably never done it a day in your life?

Who'd have thought that consumers are allowed to have a voice? ;)
AD705  +   405d ago
So who here is a developer then? LOL I never said all of his games were quality but it's funny how people here who have never made games are saying that he's some idiot developer.

If you read the article he wasn't bashing anything at all.
Irishguy95  +   404d ago
He's a sage level PROGRAMMER. And knows more about coding and tech than most people. He is not a master game designer anymore. He has been surpassed, but to question his knowledge of the tech behind it all, is just...you know..only Retarded fanboys do it. And this thread shows it. Most of them don't even know what Carmack was talking about because they didn't read the article.
jlo  +   405d ago
What people here fail to understand is that GDDR5 is just memory. Memory alone won't make your games amazing. If that was the case, they could have picked the very cheapest GPU, and stuck 32gb of GDDR5 on it.

Your games are still limited by your CPU, and the number of stream processors in your GPU. Those are the 2 main defining factors.

The reason Naughty Dog got 'more' out of the PS3 at the end was that the PS3 was an UNFAMILIAR ARCHITECTURE. It wasn't x86. They learnt how to use it.

The PS4 has 8gb of GDDR5 because it ONLY has GDDR5. It doesn't have GDDR5 (for high frequency) and DDR3 (for better latency) like a PC. So, the GDDR5 must be used for the OS. Apparently, this will take up 3.5gb of GDDR5. Not surprising consider all the social features.

But back to my main point, just because it has 16 times the memory of the PS3, this doesn't mean "wow if Naughty Dog did uncharted with 512mb ram, imagine what they could do with 8gb ram". It's memory!!! Do you even know what memory does?! It isn't GPU stream processors. It isn't raw CPU power. Those are what really matter, and what sadly most people here don't understand. Those are the things that make the difference.

Also another side note. If a dev says something nice about the PS4, he's a genius. If he says something mean about the PS4, he's an idiot. You're like a bunch of schoolgirls.
2v1  +   405d ago
I see why you got 2 bubbles troll
Dragonshardz  +   404d ago
Butthurt PS3 fanboys are the worst. I can understand someone arguing with cogent and analytical arguments, introducing facts to support or go against a claim, but this is just plain ignorance.

Even the technologically illiterate should understand the very basics of how tech works in order to call Carmack and idiot. Take this example: a graphics card with 2GB of DDR5 ram from the lower tier (say, Radeon 7770) will always perform worse than a higher tier graphic card (say Radeon 7880) with just 1 GB of DDR5 ram (these are random examples, but you should get the gist). RAM itself isn't that important. It is the utilization of the CPU/GPU power that makes a difference in graphic fidelity. It helps, sure, but it isn't going to make the overall look of games by a huge margin.
#27.1.1 (Edited 404d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(0) | Report
TheUndertaker85  +   405d ago
Gee, I wonder why he might make those comments at a Nvidia event. I mean it's not like the guy is getting paid to sit and talk up products that aren't in Next Gen consoles while attempting to downplay competitor products or anything... /s
CuddlyREDRUM  +   401d ago
Good point.
noloyalties  +   405d ago
This is "news"? Big whoop......
wishingW3L  +   405d ago
wow,the title is soooo misleading! In regards to Mantle vs the extensions he's talking strictly about similar amount of draw calls which is not far-fetched to think. And about the 8GB:

"I don’t think it will make games look very different, but it will help them to be developed somewhat quicker and easier."

And this is true too... Ram might be useful for texture allocation but at the end the main piece that pushes graphics is the GPU.
#30 (Edited 405d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
a_squirrel  +   405d ago
I had to scroll to the bottom of the comments to find an intelligent person who actually read the article.

A moment of silence for the people of n4g, who were defeated today by 'Misleading Title' in the lands of 'Flamebait'
#30.1 (Edited 405d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
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