Albert Penello of MS replies Kinectless SKU 'not going to happen'

Microsoft PR representative Albert Penello reached out to the community to ensure gamers that Microsoft has not lost their vision. He also says that the Kinect will remain in every box.

Penello also describes that the Kinect is better at navigating the console than the controller does.

He also justifies the value and usefulness of the Kinect and how its core to their vision.

[PositiveEmotions]

Yeah its not a surprise at all

[Starbucks_Fan]

If I ever get one I'm selling the Kinect on eBay. I'm sure someone will want one for some reason.

[thekhurg]

Don't worry, now that Microsoft has said it won't happen, it will absolutely happen.

[mac_sparrow]

I was thinking the same thing Khurg, step one of a one eighty is to state it won't or can't happen.

[AnteCash]

Why not sell the whole box.

http://inthegame.nl/wp-cont...

[SilentNegotiator]

@thekhurg

Don't be ridiculous! They can't just hit a switch!

...Give it a month or two after launch to be announced.

[fr0sty]

They said the same thing about dropping DRM.

[Mystogan]

Thekhurg, they never said the 180 was not going to happen, they said they would listen to as much feedback as they can. and they did.

@Starbucks_Fan

You'd be a fool.

[fossilfern]

Thats what I was thinking but you probably wont get much for it.

[gaffyh]

It WILL happen. Just wait and see, they are only saying this to try and save face, but it will happen. It's just like when immersion was suing Sony regarding rumble, and Sony said rumble was pointless. They didn't believe it, they had to say it so they could actually sell SixAxis controllers. Same thing with this.

My prediction, Kinect-less SKU available within the first year of launch.

[fossilfern]

@edonus

Maybe all I want to do is play games not wave my arms about like an idiot or move my hand about just to navigate menus when a controller can easily be used ? I dunno what innovation your talking about but this thing will be just used for dance central type games.

[JokesOnYou]

Hell yeah, for me here are the important parts:

"We made one policy decision that was a major reversal around digital rights vs. physical media. It was the only time major features were changed, like family sharing, and some of the online check-in stuff that was related to it. It was the right call."

"Once you guys experience the console, some of the criticisms may be valid, and many won't. The controller will not be the best way to navigate the dash - things like instant switching, snap mode, sign-in, and search are going to be vastly superior with Kinect. There is no controller UI that will beat "Xbox, Snap Skype", or "Xbox, Go to Killer Instinct"."

"If we were to remove Kinect from the bundle, then THAT would be a 180... but it's not going to happen. This was a very minor policy change, for people who had privacy concerns or repair issues. As someone earlier stated, my guess is that very few people will take advantage of the feature. But knowing it's there as an option is important."

-AWESOME!

-Good to hear this news. Unlike their other plans I'm glad they realize that this is fundamentally necessary for the future success of the platform.

[fossilfern]

@edonus

Im not trolling I have an XB1 pre ordered you just listed off some personal prefrences and my prefrence is not to have one. Facial recognision isnt inovative most phones have that. And all that heart beat stuff will probably turn out to be nonsense what if your wearing baggy clothing ? Ill have to see it to belive it.

Edit: Sorry playing CSGO. And voice commands have been is use since the PS2 and Xbox I remember playing games on both PS2 and Xbox using voice controlls. Just like kinect 1.0 it will be hyped up wth so much "potential" that it will fall short of peoples imagination and expectations. I dont want the Kinect I very much doubt I will use the kinect and if I am going to use the kinect I want the choice to decide to have one or not

[Maddens Raiders]

I don't know how long this will hold true before MS announces a 180 on yet another position. Paying an additional $100USD for an add on that according to MS is now, "not required" is a steep price to pay for an afterthought.

MS didn't do this with the HD-DVD add on when they were stating that HD-DVD was the next big thing since underwear, so why do this with Kinect 2.0? It's just hubris and greed imho. They cannot sustain this position with a forced Kinect 2.0 as their only sku.

[devwan]

Agreed. When people see the One now works even if you leave the Kinect in the box, how many will wait it out for a Kinect-less SKU? It could do more harm than good.

By allowing the unit to function without Kinect they might be forcing their own hand.

[scofios]

Yeah right
Kinectless sku will be the next 180.

[avengers1978]

"Can't just flip a switch and turn off the online"
Days later apparently they could just flip a switch

"Kinect is an intergal part of XB1 design"
Later you can unconnect the kinect and never use it

"Kinect-less sku not going to happen"
Later... I guess we will see

Oh and "no delay on XB1"
Hours later oh some places have slipped to a 2014 release not a November 2013 release

[EasilyTheBest]

Hooray hooray hooray. Just what I wanted to hear. I can't wait for Kinect 2 and would be gutted if they sold an X1 without and split the user base in half.

[PSVita]

Be smart people. They know if they said there'd be a $399 kinect less bundle later no would buy them at launch.

[Mounce]

Just give them 1 month max to flip another switch...

[NewMonday]

fore those who don't want Kinect it will be a $200 paperweight, will wait for MS to do another 180 and sell cheaper non-Kinect SKU and and to present us with new 1st party exclusives.

[Shadonic]

If you believe there going to do that after they stated that they would not make a profit if they did sell a kinectless xbox One then your nuts

[NewMonday]

they wont make any profit from lost XBLG subscriptions and lost royalties if a larg share of the market goes to the PS4 as things stand now

MS will again be forced to concede to market pressure and do another 180

[devwan]

@Shadonic "then your nuts"

What have his nuts got to do with anything?

OT: Many of us believe in order to effectively compete in next gen there will have to be a SKU that goes head-to-head price-wise with ps4. The only way that seems possible is without Kinect 2.0.

Allowing xbox one to function with Kinect 2.0 sat in the box has planted the seed in a lot of minds - people are going to sit it out and see what happens.

[thekhurg]

If you believe that they won't 180 this once they realize they're getting trounced in sales, then you're nuts.

[Shadonic]

I'm just going to wait and see.This is the only thing MS has held onto and considering how this whole fiasco has pushed the idea that there just out for money even more you would think that them holding onto the kinect in general for this long would be because of the lose in profit that would come with its departure.

[KonsoruMasuta]

But this is pretty different. MS as spent money developing this. They know for a fact that if they release a kinectless X1, nobody will buy a Kinect. All of that money and time put into it will go to waste. It really wouldn't be a smart move.

[Shadonic]

Its too late masuta MS could explode for all they care, as long as the kinects in they dont care.

[devwan]

They also spent a lot of money designing and implementing the system that handled DRM and that got canned. Sure, that's not in the same league as their camera, but when something is working against your goals you do what needs to be done.

The games division is effectively under new management now, don't be surprised to see this and other changes as they scramble to become relevant again.

[Bigpappy]

This is what I want to keep hearing from M$. They should know what their console should have better than the PlayStation crown and a few anti Kinect whiners.

[Prototype_79L]

Then show us a decent kinect game which is not dancing, show us a reason for paying a 100 bucks more, because up until now i have not seen any.

"Kinect is better at navigating the console than the controller does."

This is the biggest bullshit i have heard so far.

[Bhuahahaha]

i had a very bad experience with it.

after playing steel battalion
i never ever try play any more kinect game related title

[nades_all_night]

@ Prototype, Agreed. Also, if the kinect is better at navigating the UI than the controller, what does that say about the UI architecture of the system itself?! The PR dept. or whomever is in charge of answering questions regarding the xb1, has done nothing but a terrible job thus far.

[Shadonic]

agreed

[ElementX]

Well a Kinect-less SKU would divide the userbase. At least developers know the Kinect will be there if they want to use it.

[joeorc]

@ElementX

yes, but also Microsoft just went on the point and stated is its not required now even though its still in the box.If very many see no real need the xbox one kinect camera and really wants to use it, ask yourself this.

If you know the xbox one has the camera and know for a fact that the xbox one does not need to use it or the consumer does not want to use it anyway Now that is not Required.

What incentive do developer's need to make use of the camera just by its presence in the box?

for example the PSVita has a back touch pad, do many of the developer's use such function on the PSVita making software for it?

just because its in the box or on the device, does not mean outright Developer's have or will have an incentive to use it, if Now Microsoft themselves states the XBOXONE will function without kinect attached to it.

Than its now No longer a Requirement for the system, its in the box for being in the box for developer's to try to make use of "if they want to"

that is the key, its no longer Kinect is seen as a core base to the xbox one as a core function, to now, its a "if you want to use such functionality to developer's.

that's what has changed.

[Godz Kastro]

@joeroc... at least if gives them a better shot than convincing someone to go out and buy one.

[rela82me]

Think about the wii, they didn't need the nun chuck for the console to function, but it shipped with one and not every developer Had to use it, only when necessary.

I have a hard time believing that if people get one in their box they won't plug it in anyway and still use some of not most of the non gaming features. I can see them not buying kinect only games, however using voice snap and other features accordingly.

[joeorc]

@Godz Kastro

"at least if gives them a better shot than convincing someone to go out and buy one."

Agreed, that's why i stated for example with the PSVita the rear touch pad being there does not mean outright developer's would use it. but its there if they want to.

and that is exactly my Point, this was not a negative post, im sorry if that came across that way. What i pointed out it does not hurt having Kinect in the box anyway. the only thing the consumer has to ask themselves is really the cost of what they are paying.

example: the system has what you want as a consumer, what would you be willing to pay for such a box. its a Question only each and every person can ask and answer themselves.

The Companies can only offer the consumer what they think will make that choice much more + toward their package of the system and the functionality and software and services they offer for the consumer.

It boils down to your choice as a gamer and a consumer.

the Developer knows that in every retail box for the xboxone currently there will be a kinect camera in there, and even though its now "optional for the consumer to use it" its upto them as developer's to make software be that 3rd party or 1st party to make use of that hardware "if they want to" the fact its there is really not a negative at all. only if the price is a problem for you or I or anyone as a consumer will really matter.

@rela82me

"Think about the wii, they didn't need the nun chuck for the console to function, but it shipped with one and not every developer Had to use it, only when necessary.

I have a hard time believing that if people get one in their box they won't plug it in anyway and still use some of not most of the non gaming features. I can see them not buying kinect only games, however using voice snap and other features accordingly."

exactly, what i was pointing out, though like you stated the other functionality offered to be used with kinect is another point that may sway user's to use Kinect. The fact its there does not mean outright that you have to use it, but its good that it is indeed there.

really only the price point would in effect be maybe a problem for some, if they see that as a problem.

[Godz Kastro]

Agreed, that would be a dumb move. at least this way the kinect is there and some people might be curious and try it out. And who knows, they might like it.. People should just have an open mind. If they try and don't like who am i to argue someones likes/dislikes.

At least give it a try. The gaming industry has to evolve somehow.

[kingdip90]

Lol evolve... motion controlls were big on the wii. All the kinect is, is a much more advanced version of motion controlls. It was never abiut evolution, just capitalizing on the motion control gimmick which people are kinda bored of by now

[yellowgerbil]

He says that now, because like everything they say it is bizarro speak.
"No we will not change policy"
"DRM can't just be turned off"
No we will not remove the internet requirment, buy a 360"
"The kinect has to be on, it is integral"
now
"no we will not ever offer a kinect less x1"

[Bigpappy]

There will be a Kinectless X1 down the road (may be after the first year. But that would be after X1 has established itself as a console that includes Kinect.

So it will and should happen for many reasons, including replacements. But to do it at launch would be to completely change what they said they wanted X1 to do.

[yellowgerbil]

I agree, except for your last statements factoring into things. THEY HAVE COMPLETELY CHANGED WHAT THEY SAID THEY WANTED THE X1 TO DO. This console is not the X1 they revealed in any way, nothing about it is the same, in this case that is a very good thing, because the original X1 was terrible.

[JokesOnYou]

Correct Bigpappy only thing that has changed about Kinect is policy, if anything othet minor things have gotten better with it being open to indies, small spec performance boost, and they added a headset.

Ironically things have only been added NOT taken away.

This great news because the drm stuff was presented but they never came out and said changes were "not going to happen", in fact after E3 they talked about revising certain principles around what they initially revealed.

[Bigpappy]

"Completely Changed", no sir. Kinect features are still in tact: Split screen; voice control; auto log in; Controller assist. It is also still a digital game only system (games can not run from the Blu-ray). Still has the 3 OS and 8 Gig of DDR3,with HDMI in. So this is the same machine with some policy tweaks. Policies are the only things they have changed so far.

[aaron5829]

so... i have to pay for something i wont use... since its not a requirement now...

hmm... its like going to a fast food outlet.. throw in the ketchup and gets charged for it...

i hate ketchup.

[KillrateOmega]

I know that they are refusing to produce a Kinect-less SKU, because they want to encourage developers to make use of it and avoid dividing the user base, but I haven't seen a single interesting Kinect game. It's all been dancing and shovelware.

I don't know, maybe the united user base will actually incite developers to make a Kinect experience that'll make the extra $100 worth it...

As for this: "The controller will not be the best way to navigate the dash"

In some cases, yes, I agree. In some other cases, I disagree.

[Godz Kastro]

GOOOD!!!! Im a believer and this is what separates the two consoles. Otherwise we'd have two identical boxes. Stick to your guns MS. Everyone who has touched Kinect has praised it.

I do think its a good idea to allow person to choose whether or not Kinect should be connected. Kudos...

I love all the criticism MS has gotten. at first I was upset but the naysayers are forcing MS to reshape their ideas and make a much more consumer friendly console which will help them be successful.

Thanks for listening Bill!

[Minato-Namikaze]

But its not like it was the naysayers only. It also seemed to be a big portion of the 360 fan base that said screw the XB1.

I have about 10 or 15 friends that had only 360 that are now not getting the XB1 even after the policy changes. Thats what 1st impressions do to people. (I know my small sample of friends arent representitve of the larger gaming population).

[Godz Kastro]

@Minato

You know its all about perspective I guess. You are right. There were x360 owners upset. I was one of the few that wasnt. I actually had no problems with system before the changes. I have sick internet and was going totally digital this gen.

I think the Trojan horse this time around is community. I have maxed out friends list and due to relationships Ive developed with them and vice versa I have not heard one person say they are are ditching that to jump to a new console.

Community this time around will hold a lot of weight.

When PS4 starts dropping killer exclusives down the line I will get one too. Variety is a beautiful thing :)

[Phoenix76]

Get ready for yet another 180

[Ketzicorn]

Yeah and they have never done something they said they wouldnt.

[Reborn]

Of course not. At least not now.

They'll only probably act if it sells extremely bad, then that mentality will be forced into change. They spent a lot of money on Kinect, for them to offer a console without it, to them.. seems pretty ridiculous.

[Master-H]

Usually once a MS PR person comes out and says something is not going to happen, it happens the very next day, like the Major Failson and Angry Joe incident lol so xbox fans who don't want kinect ,rejoice. tomorrow they might do another switch-flip and announce the kinectless bone you've all been waiting for.

[skydragoonity]

How many times have we heard that before...

[ziggurcat]

next week:

"Microsoft announces Xbox One SKU that does not include Kinect"

[Fireseed]

Good! I want to see more developer put Kinect features into core games.

[sly-Famous]

"Kinect is core to there vision" which means hardcore gamers arent, and since E3, MS's vision has changed several times. Mark my words this first delay is just the beginning.

[VENOMACR]

I don't know any hard core gamers who use a Kinect. I think its more of a family tool or a way to get younger people to buy an Xbox because Xbox is seen as the more hardcore system, where Wii and PS are more kid and family friendly. Basically we can all blame Nintendo lol. If they never came out with the Wii, we wouldnt have stupid things like Kinect, PS Eye, and PS Move. Nintendo found a market no one had tapped into yet and now everyone wants a piece.

[LOL_WUT]

Too bad because I was really looking forward to buying one without kinect ;)

[VENOMACR]

Well at least I'll have an awesome camera for Skype, thats about all I'm going to use it for. Or I'll keep it packaged up and when someone breaks their Kinect (which will happen), guess who's got a brand new Kinect for sale for $100? :)

Eventually they will have a SKU-less Kinect. Just like they will eventually come out with a smaller HD version which is cheaper. Usually for launch consoles you only get 1 option (pretty sure 360 only had 1 version at launch, could be wrong).

[colonel179]

Waiting for the next 180 then. In all seriousness though, Microsoft will most likely sell a SKU without Kinect if they see that the sales are not that good. Save this comment for next year. If by January 1st the PS4 beats Xbox, they will announce it for the same price as, or even $50 lower, than the PS4

[n4rc]

Good..

Would be a big mistake to waste all the potential that a 100% adoption rate can provide..

[green]

I am happy to hear this. I want the X1 and PS4 to have their own distinct identities when I purchase them. Also, a 100% adoption rate guarantees dev support for Kinect2.

[josephayal]

Release a version of the Xbox One without the Kinect for $299.99, and I just might consider purchasing it

[jay2]

PMSL the xbox 1 hardware costs about the same as the Wii U did when it launched, the extras Kinect thats why!

[Funantic1]

I'm glad they're keeping the Kinect so developers can integrate it into the games. It could be a standard then. I like what I've seen so far about the Kinect. I wanna see on Dead Rising 3 how if you make noise the zombies hear you and chase you down. I plan on using the Kinect to the fullest and see how Microsoft intended for their gaming vision to be. Then if everyone has a Kinect device it'll be less to buy when the Illumiroom comes out. You'll only need to buy the projector to complete it. I'm a Xbox fan but no way could I leave out the PS4. I got to buy a PS4 and play those games too. I'm a a true gamer more than a fanboy and I won't let my pride stop me from having a good time. I'll experience it all. Plus it looks cooler when you have both systems.

[kingdip90]

What exactly is it that you expect from kinect in games? How exactly does one interect with a game with no buttons? How will you pull a trigger in a fps or tell the console anything input wise besides where you are in relation to the console or verbally? How interactive do you expect it to be without a wii or ps move style input device?

Seriously I wanna know because I'm not seeing the appeal unless you use the controller in which case then what's the point?

[Funantic1]

One example of how the Kinect can be cool is like in Dead Rising 3 if you make noise the zombies can hear you and chase you down. It'll just make the game creepy. Think about survival horrors or sports games being taken to a new level. There are tons of innovative things involving sound, motion, and your reactions that developers can integrate into games. There are only so many buttons a controller has.

[kingdip90]

There are games that map out 12 different buttons all with different functions how exactly can I tell an avatar on screen to do 12 different actions in front of a camera without a controller?

Yeah the sound thing is cool if you are alone at home but if ither people live with you it could become a pain.

I'm just no seeing how it will innovate games unless of course they combine it with something else but I guess we will see on that lol

[FrigidDARKNESS]

Kinect 2.0 technology and xbox one is what separates it from the competition. I'm glad they're leaving it intact with the console.

[christocolus]

totally agree with you..

[AllroundGamer]

Next Week - Kinect-less SKU for 399$, flipmaster strikes again.

[PS4OUR]

Um ok. Kinect SKU "No sale". Simple as that.

[stuna1]

Serious do people honestly believe that kinects really is included with the XBOX 1 so as not to fracture the user base?? That may be partial true! But when supporters start seeing games that require its use becoming the precedent, then maybe they'll start seeing the bigger picture! The truth is people see and here what they want to see and here! Case in point, by Microsoft own admission, the XBOX 1 will be tailored to each individuals preferences! What you watch the kinects was supposed to whatch you watch it, which is why it has a feature that pauses the media when you look away, but through all the 180's these features have seriously been crippled.

Crippled but not gone! This can also be a reason for the launch countries service areas becoming smaller. Most would like to think this is due to hardware shortages, or bad pre-order numbers, which it totally could be, I'm not disputing that! But something no one has taken into consideration is it could be all in the TOS (Terms of Service). Battles have been fought, won, or loss, just by the wording of a corporations TOS.

Many don't like to feel the company they support are capable of sneaky, and underhanded tactics, but the truth is all are! To me it just seems that some are willing to go further than others. I support Sony, but I totally agree with those who were against them removing the other OS! Against them removing backwards compatibility! Against them removing 2 of the 4 USB ports, and card reader from the PS3! Against them having me as a supporter sign an agreement to not enact a class action lawsuit against them in order to use Playstation Online! Plus many other things.

People are going to support who they like regardless of whomever has a different view, but I think in every case whoever you choose to support, 2 important question should always be asked! What is the entity I support motivation, and how do I fit in with that motivation?

[TheFutureIsBlue]

I say we start putting down bets on how long before they 180 everything they announce. I bet 20$ they'll flip a switch in 2 days and 10 hours and announce a kinectless sku.

=p

[christocolus]

Give these guys a break and wait till launch to see what it offers...and if you still aint down with kinect after launch and ms still insists on not removing it, then you can go for the wii u or the ps4..this shouldnt be an issue at all. imo many gamers will end up being impressed by what kinect offers.

[CEOSteveBallmer]

i don't believe him. major nelson once said, they will not change things about xbox one because of sony. look what happened. im calling it, somewhere down the line they will announce a kinectless SKU. its hard to trust what the MS PR is saying. they are like women who can't make up their mind. guess i won't be surprised the new head is a woman, with no gaming experience unlike don mattrick

[FrigidDARKNESS]

Folks should know that Microsoft is using Kinect 2 .0 technology to compete with Apple and Google. There are plans for voice control home Automation. Keep in mind the Iphone has an appto customize a home theater and home automation. So consumers aren't just getting a system for gaming but a product that can do more than what the competition has to offer.

[Phoenix76]

I know a few ppl whom have gone out and brought Samsung TV's with similar built in features for waving there hands around in the air to change volume or swipe through channels. Those very same ppl a month later stopped using those features simply because it was easier and quick using the remote.
The new Kinect will go the same way, you will use it for a short while, then grow tired of it or just simply forget about because we've all been using controllers since the bloody dawn of consoles.
As the old saying goes 'the more things change, the more they stay the same'.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

All I can say is... good. I personally don't want split base/sku's.

[nix]

whoever is buying an Xbox One needs to think.

MS is going to come out with newer system in a year or two... that's certain. skip xbox one and pick up the next version. be wise people. unless you have tons of money then hey...

[DevilishSix]

That is worrisome, if the Kinect is better at navigating the console than a controller then I am not looking forward to its dashboard then. I am just not a snapping kinda guy.