650°
Submitted by legendoflex 331d ago | opinion piece

PS4′s ‘Answer to the Pre-Owned Games Question’ is Still Just as Unclear as Xbox One’s

GenGAME writes: "Frankly, trading and buying used games shouldn’t require any kind of 'solution.' It should be possible and practical by default because they’re based on physical freaking media that can serve as its own DRM if companies are really concerned about people simply installing and giving their discs away. Why does it have to be any more complicated than 'if you want to play media installed from the disc, you need the disc'?

"Microsoft isn’t alone in being horrendously vague and unclear about the 'solution' to pre-owned games – implying of course that pre-owned games are a problem that has to be 'solved.' Sony’s contributed its fair share of non-answers to the discussion as well." (PS4, Wii U, Xbox One)

Credit url: neogaf.com
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legendoflex  +   331d ago
Microsoft: "We have a solution to the used games problem"
Sony: "We have an answer to the pre-owned question"
Nintendo: "We have no features that discourage used games"
thechosenone  +   331d ago
Not true. Sony said the would leave it to companies to decided on the issue of used games but that the PS4 would not block used games on the hardware itself.

Also the PS4 can be played offline indefinitely, games can be launched and played without needing an internet connection present. Those are the main and important differences between the PS4 and Xbone.

Once again MS lied about always connected DRM, lied about blocking used games and all the rumors about weaker specs were true. PS user have been vindicated and all the bubbles that were removed by the mods because people were marked down as trolls over the past two months should be returned and apologies should be offer. lol j/k
#1.1 (Edited 331d ago ) | Agree(99) | Disagree(54) | Report | Reply
Intentions  +   331d ago
Really? Where does it say that?

If that is true, then are they still going to have online passes?

-.- Next-gen is confusing.
DragonKnight  +   331d ago | Helpful
I have had to inform too many people on Sony's stance on used games. They have NOT been vague and this article's attempt at throwing Sony under the bus is ridiculous.

Read these articles:

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

http://arstechnica.com/gami...

Jack Tretton and Shuhei Yoshida have a lot more intimate knowledge about the used games situation than a Managing Director would. Both say used games will work. Eurogamer and Arstechnica both believe that this "leaving it up to the publishers" comment is in reference to the already existing online pass system that is in place.

I mean, if Sony themselves as a first party publisher aren't blocking used games, and they've come right out and said they aren't, what makes anyone think they're going to hand that ability over to 3rd party publishers when they know it would mean taking a huge chance in the sales department?
MysticStrummer  +   331d ago
Whether they said that or not, it's the smart way to go. Put the blame on the publishers and let them have the backlash.
maniacmayhem  +   331d ago
@Dragon

Maybe I read those two links wrong but Sony is just as vague as MS has been. In fact one of your links Yoshida didn't even answer the question he had an advisor do a duck and cover.

Doesn't really inspire confidence.
xhi4  +   331d ago
SONY said, ‘for the record, I’m totally opposed to blocking used games. I think it’s great for the consumer that they can buy those. We have a customer that buys our console late in the cycle, pays less, is looking for value priced games, and I think it would be anti-consumer for us to do that.’
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DragonKnight  +   331d ago
I guess you did read them wrong because in the Eurogamer article (who were the first ones with exclusive interviews), they mention the used games patent isn't for the PS4.

In the ArsTechnica article, Yoshida clearly states that disc based games will work on all PS4 hardware. Then Ars asks about online registration (which it believes is a possible reference to the already existing online passes) and Yoshida says Sony aren't doing it but will leave it up to the publishers. Keeping in mind that online passes are already determined by publishers, and also keeping in mind that Jack Tretton also said used games will work, how can anyone think Sony are being vague based on the word of one Managing Director of the UK branch? We're talking about the words of 2 CEOs and the research of two well known gaming journalism sites all saying the same thing here.
duli14  +   331d ago
well sony haven't blocked used games on ps vita, vita and ps4 is supposed to go hand in hand according to sony. I'm not sure why they would treat the systems differently
Godmars290  +   331d ago
@maniacmayhem:
Um, no.

What Yoshida said couldn't have been more solid if his name was Solid Macsolid from Solidom Way in the land of Solidia.

And it was said *MONTHS* ago.

Still, people will ask again. And again.
Skips  +   331d ago
http://www.vg247.com/2013/0...

Shuhei Yoshida

- "Used games can play on PS4."

^^^^
(How can you get anymore straight forward than that???) LMFAO! XD

- “That’s the general expectation by consumers. They purchase physical form, they want to use it everywhere, right? So that’s my expectation."

^^^^
(Being able to use something anywhere you want means no restrictions) LOL!

Oh yea, and from this article...
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

"Interestingly, I also spoke to a Sony source elsewhere at the event this evening who told me that the anti used-game patent discovered last month was actually nothing to do with PlayStation 4 at all."

So yeaaaaaa...

Swear to GOD! Xbox fanboys trying to look for something that's JUST NOT THERE! LMFAO! XD
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NateCole  +   331d ago
Sony said PS4 will play used games. Period.

Unless Sony say so otherwise or there are restrictions like MS have outlined then there is absolutely no point in speculating on this.

Honestly. Why some of you want to create something out of nothing does not make any sense.
darthawesome90  +   331d ago
AM I THE ONLY PERSON WHO THINKS THAT THEY HAVE THE SOLUTION!!!

Ok so game companies don't like their games being sold used...On the other hand I don't like that I can't put my game on a friends console. And Microsoft wants to charge full retail.

So what about letting people play games on consoles that are part of my FRIENDS LIST. I mean what are the chances of someone buying used from Gamestop and being on my friends list...slim to none. Problem solved.

Now for those that want to go to Gamestop. Well I don't have a solution for everything after all. But I think the playing on a friends console solution was a good one.
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thechosenone  +   331d ago
Official word from MS on these issues can be found here. A persistent connection is required. Sorry Xbox fans.

http://n4g.com/news/1263124...
JokesOnYou  +   331d ago
Well just to be clear....
Yeah sony said used games will be playable on ps4, but there is no concrete statement that a fee will not be required, in fact even in the links from Dragonknights post they leave the door open for online passes or just blaming the publisher if there is a used game fee, I mean micro said the same thing, in the interview with Phil that "we are not blocking used games" which goes to show you a lot depends on the definition of "blocking used games"= true they aren't IF you pay a fee that is.

Anyway no matter who does it its a stupid limitation. I'm glad X1 is taking a lot of heat over this used game DRM, keep it coming 'cause I think micro will listen we'll get a better console without this DRM crap in the end...well I hope.
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Gh05t  +   331d ago
Just so we are clear in the realm of the English language M$ does not BLOCK used games. If at any point you can play a used game than it is not BLOCKED (fee or no fee).

I only bring this up because Sony saying they will not BLOCK used games does not mean that they can not do exactly what M$ is doing. and the fact that they haven't jumped out and said "Come to Sony we wont F*** you on used games like M$." worries me a little bit. Seriously why hasn't Sony jumped on this and said that they are not doing anything different than what we have come to expect from this generation.
BlmThug  +   331d ago
Every gen since the 7th gen seems to bring a whole load of crap with it. DLC, season passes, online passes, retailer exclusives, focus on motion controls etc.
MasterCornholio  +   331d ago
I hope that what Yoshida said was true and that you can play used games on the PS4 without any additional fees which isnt the case with the XBONER.
JackBNimble  +   331d ago
Online passes are up to the developer/publisher.

Paying $10 for an online pass is a hell off a lot different then having to pay full price for any game.
wampdog29  +   331d ago
Yes, but they also pushed off the question after being asked more in depth questions. Sony said that they weren't willing to go into further detail at this point in time...
DonFreezer  +   331d ago
Why do you care so much about specs?Have you seen me crying because the ps2 holded back multiplatform gaming when the first Xbox had 100 more raw power?733 mhz cpu in contrast to a 333 one remember?
maniacmayhem  +   331d ago
Xbox One can play used games too if that is the case just as Phil and the rest of the Xbox team has been saying.

Sony has already said that they will leave it up to the developer and they have stated nothing else about what they will do or handle used games. Yes he says the PS4 can play used games, but are there any tricks to playing it? Do I have to log into my account on another PS4 to play a game? How many devs and publishers are planning to support DRM since 98% of games are third parties.

Get it now?

Point is there has been no word yet from Sony if they plan on doing the same thing with used games as the Xbox One is.

With Sony being buddy, buddy with developers and supposedly listening to them and taking their advice and most developers being 100% against used sales it seems more plausible that they would also want restrictions on their games too.

Now I know for some blind Sony fanboys (ie Sonic200) can't handle that and believes everything Sony shoves in their face regardless but I'm just looking at everything so far presented. Nothing has been set in stone yet from Sony. There are still a lot of questions some have with them.

Now, I hope I'm wrong, there is no doubt that I am a strong supporter of the consumer and I hate all forms of DRM and locked content. So I truly hope that used games can be played on the ps4 restriction free. My Gamefly account hopes so too.
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loulou  +   331d ago
if its coming for microsoft it is coming for sony.

it's the publishers that want this. the publishers would not make games for microsoft if they were going it alone.. why? because they would know that microsoft would have just commited suicide. and i doubt that they would waste their time and money.

i think it also explains why no major publishers are concentrating on the wii u.

sonys comment that they will "leave it upto the publishers/devs" should be the only you need to hear. they are already trying to point the moaners in the direction of the problem.

i could be wrong and a hugely sucessful company like microsoft has just lost the plot. or that both platform holders have folded in the face of pressure from every major publisher..

e3 will answer many questions
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Bobby Kotex  +   331d ago
And if game devs decide to do this you can answer with your wallets. You don't even have that option with Xbox1.
DragonKnight  +   331d ago
@maniacmayhem: Again, Sony in no way said that blocking used games will be up to the publisher. Yoshida's response was towards online registration (likely online passes) and that's something that is ALREADY up to publishers. The problem with articles like these is that they are running with the fallacy that Sony is giving publisher all the power to decide whether used games will work on the PS4 or not. Nothing about a fee was brought up.

I want to know why it's so difficult for people to read articles that have the answers they're looking for.

People are reading far too much into what Yoshida said and applying what they want him to be saying just to stir up B.S.
maniacmayhem  +   331d ago
@Dragon

Are we seriously reading two different things here?

****Speaking at a roundtable session with the press attended by Ars Technica, Shuhei Yoshida stated that "when you purchase the disc-based games for PS4, that should work on any hardware." When asked whether games would require online registration, Yoshida noted that that decision was up to the publisher. When asked if Sony, as a publisher, would require games to be registered online, Yoshida said, "we are not talking about that plan."****

Yes, he said that used games would not be blocked but he also didn't say that there wouldn't be any sort of restriction on them. I think Yoshida knows the difference between Online Pass and Online Registration. Which by the way he did say that Online Reg. would be up to the publisher. Which if implemented WOULD and could block a used game!

He's dodging the question by providing a way too simplistic answer and not enough info.

***While Yoshida's statement leaves open the possibility that individual publishers can still block used games at will, it's just as likely he was simply leaving the door open for the kind of "Online Pass" purchase systems that already routinely limit certain online game functions in used copies of games.****

There is still doubt in each of those articles you provided, it's not as cut and dry as you and others are trying so very hard to make it appear. This article plainly explains just that. Again, technically Xbox One can play used games too as said by Phil Harrison. If Phil would have left it at that without providing any additional information after the fact it would have been the same as what Yoshida provided in his interview.

Regardless of anything you might think of the statements, one thing is clear is that Sony will have some of their own restrictions put in place on used games for their new system.
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GamingWorldPeace  +   330d ago
You people really think it is a coincident all these things aligning together within the past few months is a matter of chance?

1. Sony said they will not blocked used games but failed to admit about a fee or going into any further details.

2. Wii U aren't supported by EA. Nintendo doesn't have a system in placed that required an additional fee to play used games.

3. EA dropped their online pass program (out of their kind heart, no doubt /S)

4. The XboxOne will not blocked used games but a fee may be required. Further details incoming.

5. So far, no one from Sony had gone on Tweeter or leak any information after the MS conference regarding any statement about not requiring any fee for used games. Trust me, if I have a company on a rope and I have nothing to hide, you bet I will go on to advertise that advantage as much as possible.

If you put all of these things together, you will most likely find your answer.
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defiance187  +   330d ago
i hate to burst your bubble but Microsoft also said used game would be playable. they just also said it would work differently. So by your logic Sony is being vague and not saying directly that it works the way it does now.
DragonKnight  +   330d ago
@maniac: Why would he talk about restrictions when he wasn't even asked if there would be any restrictions? He was asked point blank "will used games work" he said "yes." He was asked if games would require online registration (which Ars equates to possibly being online passes) he said "up to publishers but we're not doing that ourselves." What part of that is vague or confusing?

In the Eurogamer article, another Sony source flat out said the patent wasn't for the PS4.

So tell me, what's confusing or vague about Jack Tretton and Shuhei Yoshida expecting, not hoping, expecting used games to work, not talking about restrictions because no one even bothered to ask (and quite frankly "restrictions" are only being brought up now because of Microsoft), and pretty much everyone at Sony except for one Managing Director in the U.K. branch all saying the same thing about used games?

Absolutely nothing. What's going on here is that people are creating controversy over the fact that not a single media outlet bothered to ask Sony about restrictions, which is only now a problem because Microsoft WILL have restrictions. But Sony has layed out the proof everywhere. The PS4 and Vita are supposed to have heavy integration but the Vita doesn't restrict used games at all. The PS4 will NOT force an online connection EVER (confirmed by Sony) so how can any restrictions on used games be enforced? They can't because people will just play those games offline.

What's the problem here?

Can Sony change their minds? Yep. Have they been vague? F*ck no.
dedicatedtogamers  +   331d ago
If Sony requires a used-game fee for all their games, I'm not getting a PS4. Sony may be caught in a tough spot. It is possible that they will have to allow certain companies (EA, Activision) to implement a used-game fee while choosing to not implement it for their own games.

This is VERY IMPORTANT: Sony has confirmed that PS4 will not require online. Sony has confirmed PS4 is not "always on". Sony has confirmed that they will not require always-on, but they will allow 3rd parties to do it if they want.

Why is this important? Used-game fees and online-required go hand-in-hand. A used-game fee is nearly impossible to enforce without an online-required system. People are missing this, but it is a HUGE part of this discussion.

@ legendoflex

Microsoft has actually confirmed that you CANNOT play offline. Online is required for Xbox One if you want to play your games, first to verify the game code, and once per day the Xbox One has to connect to Xbox Live.
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legendoflex  +   331d ago
They have never said "you never need to connect your system to the Internet." All they've said is the same thing Microsoft has said: "You can play offline."
DragonKnight  +   331d ago
@legendoflex: What they said is you can turn any of their features off. There is no force, it's all optional. MS' features are non-optional. You will have to connect once every 24 hours, which means if you don't have internet than the Xbox One isn't for you. The PS4's "always-on" is meant only to facilitate updates and boot up, nothing more.
edonus  +   331d ago
WTF is going on in the industry.

They hiding and lying.

I think MS screwed up and let cat out the bag early. I Sony and them knew what was coming and all the parties were trying to get their stories straight for the blame shift.

I was thinking about it and I was thinking it would crazy for one company to just head out in to the opens plains by they self.

This just might be the future and I wont even be bitter..... I would just like clear and straight answers.
denawayne  +   331d ago
Mark my words right now. You WILL be able to play games offline on Xbox One. The game will not download onto your hard drive. It will play from the disk. No License will be attached to your profile BUT stuff like achievements, updates, multiplayer, etc will not be accessible. Basically the way it's done now on the 360. The minute that particular disk is taken online, it will attach itself to that profile until it is transferred to to next online profile. Only one online profile can play that license at a time. You want to play offline? hell, take it and play it on as many offline Xbox Ones as you want as long as you don't take it online. Once again, mark my words on this.
CalvinKlein  +   331d ago
that could be a problem but I hope they hold out and launch with no used game blocking just like this gen so I can sell old games and buy more new(unused) ones like I do now. I think that ps4 will dominate with 100+ million sales and wiiu and xbox1 will struggle anywhere near their predecessors sales.

If that happens then the publishers will be forced to shut up and go with the best selling ps4 and its policy of used games being allowed. I think ps4 may dominate from the start easily now so it could happen if sony truly is for the gamers(and themselvs).

I think multiplats will sell better on ps4 anyways so it would be awesome to see developers reactions if games sell more on the system that allows used games than the one that doesnt. I hope sony allows used games so that happens.
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paranoid1971  +   331d ago
@DENAWAYNE
I'm pretty sure Microsoft have already stated that the game won't play from the disc, it HAS to be installed onto the hard drive. Also it will require online verification to play, and checked online once every 24 hours to continue playing.
MikeMyers  +   331d ago
Sony is letting Microsoft try and answer questions while they remain silent. Adam Sessler just had an hour long discussion about the new Xbox and many times he reiterated about how Sony never did answer the questions about used games properly. Sony could very well indeed lock games. Some PSN games already have DRM. Sony also adopted online passes which require a fee to unlock. They've also been sued over the rootkit scandal in their BMG music department.

If people here don't think Sony is also about control then you are very naive. They had a huge PR mess with remote game sharing as well on the PS3 which is what the Xbox One sounds like.
showtimefolks  +   331d ago
After the backlash MS is getting you better believe Sony isn't messing with that stuff on ps4
JoySticksFTW  +   331d ago
we hope...
jessupj  +   330d ago
That's what I'm really hoping.

I am going to be very despressed if Sony do this shit. There's no way I'm buying a console that puts restrictions on used games. Unless they have some kind of option for renters, but they were too short sighted to offer an Online pass plan for renters, so I wouldn't have much hope.

I am seriously scared for my hobby right now. Very Very scared.
Thirty3Three  +   331d ago
This article is BS, please report it.

They [Sony] did, indeed confirm it won't block used games. Thanks.
ZodTheRipper  +   331d ago
Thing is, now that MS is doing it and Sony let's the publishers decide for themselves, I fesr that PS4 users could face similar problems like Xbox users. I hope not but you never know ...online passes also were unimaginable at the times of the PS2.
Veneno  +   331d ago
MS' s plan for used games just seems ass backward, why even give the ability to play used games when you have to pay full retail price anway? How is going through the trouble of going to gamestop then going home to FULLY INSTALL a used game then paying MORE MONEY TO PLAY IT any different than just going to the marketplace and buying a new digital license?
Freedomland  +   331d ago
Watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Read this.
http://kotaku.com/you-will-...

Nothing further to say.
Thefreeman012  +   331d ago
Nintendo is still irrelevant with the wii u
vork77  +   331d ago
sony awnser is we pay you
Prcko  +   331d ago
so true man
Godmars290  +   331d ago
Yeah Sony. Still got some 'splaining to do...
dboyc310  +   331d ago
Think they might incorporate something that ties in with ps+.
Godmars290  +   331d ago
I expect that if there's any cloud-based BC, it'll be through PS+. Just have the whole backlog library there under the one subscription. Though they'll take their time filling everything up.

@NegativeCreepWA:
And by all limited account Sony has put that ball in the publisher's court, and are now watching the internet meltdown around MS.
NegativeCreepWA  +   331d ago
Both company's need too clarify this.

I was just watching address the sess, he made good point how neither wants too be first in restricting them, but both would benefit from it. At some point one of them will do it and the other will probably follow.
DragonKnight  +   331d ago
Read my above post.
Godmars290  +   331d ago
Regardless of what you said "above", because of what's going on now with MS is going to cause everything that Sony said as well as says from now on to be reexamined. That to a large degree they likely have solid answers is only going to hurt MS, but they still need to provide those solid answers.
Sky_Walker  +   331d ago
Sony said it was up to the developer / publisher which we all know what what they will choose.

The truth is that this was a long time coming and MS is being more blunt and bold about it becuase they already know that all the big publishers are down with this and will show the XB1 more love id Sony does not do the same with the PS4.

I am not sad about buying used games since I buy all y games new but I am sad that I cannot lend or give to someone.

As much as I hate those crooks called Game Stop with them giving you $10 for a game and then selling it for $39, I would hate for them to go out of business because they provide alot of people with jobs.
legendoflex  +   331d ago
TBH, I walked into a GameStop with 5 games and walked out with StarCraft II: HotS, $5 down on three games, and a renewed membership. It cost me something like $0.60. I think I bought those games (that I traded in) combined for about $80-90. So it's not that bad.

Then again, I'm SUPER choosy about what I buy in the first place.
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Pillsbury1  +   331d ago
You could have sold them on eBay and made way more.
joecanada  +   331d ago
So 5 games for one ? Doesnt seem great ...
McScroggz  +   331d ago
You are going to have to explain that math to me. You traded in 5 games, which you paid around $80-90 dollars for, and received what amounts to $70 in store credit?
Rainstorm81  +   331d ago
To the three morons above , when do you ever sell something and get the full price u paid for it?
turnerdc  +   331d ago
Both Microsoft and Sony haven't given completely clear answers on used games. Times are changing and I think they will both handle used games differently to how they're handled today. Whether Xbox One and PS4 will take similar or radically different approaches though is yet to be seen.
legendoflex  +   331d ago
I get the impression that there's pressure coming from big publishers, and both Sony and MS are going into this believing there's not much to lose if the competition is doing it, too.

And, of course, the competition (PC/Steam) is ALREADY doing it.
turnerdc  +   331d ago
I agree, several big publishers have been lamenting about it this entire generation so I'm not completely surprised that they're using their bargaining power to work something out with the next generation of consoles.

http://www.1up.com/news/act...

http://www.geek.com/games/e...

Additionally Sony themselves already implements an online pass system and the Vita does not allow a user to earn trophies on a pre-owned game; http://www.theverge.com/gam... . There is an easy work around (formatting the game card) though and I'm not a hundred percent sure if it's solely to discourage used game sales. Both Microsoft and Sony are focusing heavily on the cloud and if we ever do transition to a completely cloud based system then discs will be eliminated completely. It's only a matter of time...
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tiffac008  +   331d ago
^are you sure about the Vita part? Because me and my friends share some of our games and we all got trophies.
turnerdc  +   331d ago
While I'm not a hundred percent sure it's for EVERY single Vita game, it's something that definitely happens and was reported by several gaming sites.

http://www.pocketgamer.co.u...

http://www.joystiq.com/2012...

If you search Google about it you can find out much more info.
tiffac008  +   331d ago
That is a possibility I will borrow a lot of my buddies Vita games to experiment.
waltercross  +   331d ago
The XBOX has a clear answer, no Idea why the Title says "Just as unclear as the XBOX Ones".

EDIT: You need to pay a fee to install a used game onto your account, no idea why I get disagrees for saying the truth.
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Erimgard  +   331d ago
Not really.
-Microsoft rep says there's an activation fee for used games
-Xbox twitter account says that's not true
-Microsoft VP says it IS true, and the activation fee is full price.
-Major Nelson says don't believe anything you've heard because nothing is set in stone yet
waltercross  +   331d ago
Everything I read so far says there is an activation fee but It's unclear how much.
MysticStrummer  +   331d ago
Seems like there are definitely fees involved...

http://www.lazygamer.net/24...
Cueil  +   331d ago
here is the key part people...
Nothing is set in stone! So I'm encouraging the moaning and crying... say it load... cry from the top of the hill that you don't want it. Because if the voice is loud enough and there are enough people then maybe Microsoft will do something more consumer friendly.
Jek_Porkins  +   331d ago
Uh oh...
Riderz1337  +   331d ago
Uh oh?

"Used games can play on PS4. “That’s the general expectation by consumers. They purchase physical form, they want to use it everywhere, right? So that’s my expectation."

-Shuhei Yoshida

http://www.vg247.com/2013/0...

Uh oh indeed...for Microsoft.
Jek_Porkins  +   331d ago
You realize "Used games can play on PS4" is very vague? Used games can play on Xbox One.

"Well first of all, we haven’t stated that second-hand games…we haven’t made a statement on the second-hand games question. There was a lot of reaction to a patent that was filed, which is a matter of course for a technology business like us, to file various patents at various times, many of which many never see any application but they are good to have depending on ideas that might be building.

So what we’re here to do is offer the best value and the best gaming experience for gamers. The answer to the pre-owned question isn’t clarified just yet and we’re working through that and we’ll announce our position in more detail as and when we can."
Riderz1337  +   331d ago
Your quote - Fergal Gara, Managing Director Of PlayStation UK.

My quote - Shuhei Yoshida president of Worldwide Studios, Sony Computer Entertainment.

He said it clear as crystal, "PS4 can play used games". and then continued with it by saying that a consumer pays for a product therefore the consumer gets to do what he/she wishes with it.

You're trying to say that while the PS4 CAN play used games, there might be restrictions such as paying a fee, however when Yoshida continued by saying that a consumer has the right to do what they wish with a product, he reaffirms that PS4 will play used games, no restrictions.
Jek_Porkins  +   331d ago
It's not as clear as you're saying, hence this article.
Zcarnut  +   331d ago
Yoshida also said this after stating used games will not be blocked...
“We are just now announcing the basic vision and strategy for PS4, and we’ll have more information to share regarding used games later this year.”

Wouldnt he just say used games will work like they do now for current systems if that was definately the case? After all the flack MS is getting for the SAME kind of statements, it would be in Sony's best interests to do so right now.

For all the differences im hearing fanboy rants from both sides yelling about,i'm seeing alot of simularites with these new consoles.
#6.2.2 (Edited 331d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(1) | Report
Kakashi Hatake  +   331d ago
Good lord, Xbox One aplologists are so desperate to drag Sony down with MS its ridiculous.
Outside_ofthe_Box  +   331d ago
lol so NOW it's uh oh? No more wait for things to clear up lol.
Pillsbury1  +   331d ago
With ps4 I hope it's up to the publishers and not some draconian user account locked down system like with xb1.
Sky_Walker  +   331d ago
So which publisher do you think will turn down more revenue?
SexyGamerDude  +   331d ago
Fees to play used games doesn't always mean more money. It also means loss of potential customers. A big franchise like God Of War or MGS can probably do it. But if you are trying to introduce a new franchise, the fees probably won't help you.
#7.1.1 (Edited 331d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(2) | Report
MrBeatdown  +   331d ago
By that logic, every game would have online passes already.

The functionality is there already, even in current systems. There is absolutely nothing stopping publishers from simply applying the online pass concept to the entire game, and wiping out the used market for their games entirely.
BISHOP-BRASIL  +   331d ago
PS4 is already confirmed to not need an online connection at all, that you could have one and play games offline as long as you want to. So that alone means you can't really block used sales.

Likely the most we'll see is Online Passes, as the ones even Sony is already using. Can it still block used games? Sure. Some publishers may decide to set their games so the single player require an online connection (which is likely why they also said that it's up to each publisher), effectively blcoking the whole game to a pass/license/key.

But still, it's not like Sony is enforcing it themselves and not like all publsihers will decide to go this route (those publsihers could already be doing this with PS3 and Xbox 360 if they were so desperate for the extra revenue, but you don't see that happening, do you?).

I'm guessing it'll really depend on competition for PS4. If games with no blocks sell the best then the other publsiher will drop that sooner or later. Now it's up to gamers to vote with their wallets.
#7.1.3 (Edited 331d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(2) | Report
aquamala  +   331d ago
PS4 could very well have activation codes too.

"When asked whether games would require online registration, Yoshida noted that that decision was up to the publisher. When asked if Sony, as a publisher, would require games to be registered online, Yoshida said, "we are not talking about that plan."
whoyouwit04  +   331d ago
That's what I've been trying to tell Sony fans. Do you really believe Sony won't block second hand games when they filed a patent for it? the only difference is Microsoft is being up front with it. Now lets say Sony comes out and do the same thing as Microsoft ( which I think they will) who would deserve more respect Sony or Microsoft.
Count  +   331d ago
Sony, because this is N4G!
denawayne  +   331d ago
This statement can't be more true, especially the last 2 days. I already posted somewhere else that it's going to be interesting here when Sony announces a similar way to handle used games as MS.
McScroggz  +   331d ago
Sony, just like most companies, files a lot of patents. Just because they have a patent doesn't mean we should expect it to come to fruition. That being said, if Sony does the same thing as Microsoft there will be plenty of upset people on the internet.

As to who should get respect, neither should earn respect for implementing an anti-consumer practice. But, Microsoft is being very UNCLEAR, so are we really going to give them credit for anything?
Riderz1337  +   331d ago
Just going to copy paste a comment I made earlier to another user.

"Used games can play on PS4. “That’s the general expectation by consumers. They purchase physical form, they want to use it everywhere, right? So that’s my expectation."

-Shuhei Yoshida

http://www.vg247.com/2013/0...
SexyGamerDude  +   331d ago
With that quote, I don't think Sony is going the digital forced install route.

How will they charge us fee though? I mean, he said he will give us physical disc that we can bring anywhere. So that means the game wouldn't be locked to one account or device.

Even if Sony did have always on. How would they know if the disc is used or not?
turnerdc  +   331d ago
That's a very vague answer. Wouldn't a simple yes or no have sufficed? Also he says that's his expectation.

ex·pec·ta·tion

1.A strong belief that something will happen or be the case in the future.
2.A belief that someone will or should achieve something.

He didn't say much and basically said that he believes you can use PS4 games on any console...even Microsoft claims that.
Riderz1337  +   331d ago
@turnerdc - That is a yes/no answer lol.

Question - Can PS4 play used games?

Yoshida's response - "Used games can play on the PS4"

What more do you want? Also this is the president of Sony Worldwide studios. I think he would know if the PS4 can play used games or not.
aquamala  +   331d ago
"Used games can play on PS4"

that doesn't say without a fee.

with the rumored MS implementation you can play used games on it too, but you have to pay a fee
turnerdc  +   331d ago
That is not a yes or no answer. The original poster's link doesn't work and his actual response never gave a yes or no. If you asked me if I'm going to take a vacation and my answer is...

1. Yes, I'm taking one.
2. My expectation is to take one.

Then my first response leaves no room for a misinterpreted answer while my second response means I could take one or not. Also all he implied was that the PS4 can play used games. Even Microsoft claims the Xbox One can play used games (the exact implications are unknown as of right now though).

Additionally if you read his exact response not only was he very vague but he had to consult his PR rep before he responded:

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

"Eurogamer: One of the questions my readers really want an answer to is whether you're going to block the use of second-hand or 'used' games, because it's a huge concern for them.

Shuhei Yoshida: Do you want us to do that?

Eurogamer: No. I think if you buy something on a disc you have a kind of moral contract with the person you've bought it from that you retain some of that value and you can pass it on. Do you agree?

Shuhei Yoshida: Yes. That's the general expectation by consumers. They purchase physical form, they want to use it everywhere, right? So that's my expectation.

Eurogamer: So if someone buys a PlayStation 4 game, you're not going to stop them reselling it?

Shuhei Yoshida Aaaah. [Asks PR adviser.] So what was our official answer to our internal question? [Consults adviser.] So, used games can play on PS4. How is that?"

http://arstechnica.com/gami...

He had to ask his PR adviser what their "official answer" was...

In a later interview with arstechnica he said it was up to third publishers and when questioned about Sony as a publisher he responded with "we are not talking about that plan."

"Update: Speaking at a roundtable session with the press attended by Ars Technica, Shuhei Yoshida stated that "when you purchase the disc-based games for PS4, that should work on any hardware." When asked whether games would require online registration, Yoshida noted that that decision was up to the publisher. When asked if Sony, as a publisher, would require games to be registered online, Yoshida said, "we are not talking about that plan.""
#8.3.5 (Edited 331d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(1) | Report
MysticStrummer  +   331d ago
Sony already said PS4 wouldn't block used games.

My guess is that they'll leave it up to the publishers to make that call and take that heat. That would be the smart play anyway. Show support for the publishers by giving them the option, but don't make it an across the board thing.
Sky_Walker  +   331d ago
Can you provide us with a link where Sony said that the PS4 will not block used games? I have been looking but I cannot find anything.

All I could find is the below which is not that clear.

"When asked whether games would require online registration, Yoshida noted that that decision was up to the publisher. When asked if Sony, as a publisher, would require games to be registered online, Yoshida said, "we are not talking about that plan."

I hope Sony does not do this because if they do then I am done with console gaming.
#8.4.1 (Edited 331d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(0) | Report
MrBeatdown  +   331d ago
"Do you really believe Sony won't block second hand games when they filed a patent for it?"

Yes. Because they have proven that is exactly the case.

You realize that if you buy a cross-buy enabled game, a menu option in the game enables you to download a digital Vita version of the game? It's a one time use feature every disc has.

That's exactly the kind of tech necessary to block used games. That proves that Sony has the ability to detect if a disc has been played, and deny access.

It's tech based on a patent that pre-dates the PS3...

http://www.joystiq.com/2005...

Sorry, but your theory that just because they can, they will, is dead wrong.
Count  +   331d ago
It's not dead wrong if it's possible.
MrBeatdown  +   331d ago
@Count

Read what I actually wrote.

I said "your theory that just because they can, they will, is dead wrong."

That's entirely true. They won't do something simply because they have the ability to do it. As I proved, a patent, and even having the tech implemented, is not proof that it will be used.

It doesn't mean it isn't possible, but I wasn't arguing that. There's a big difference between arguing that it isn't practically guaranteed, like whoyouwit suggested, and arguing that it isn't possible.
#8.5.2 (Edited 331d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(2) | Report
Unicron  +   331d ago
If my buddy can't earn trophies on his account from a game I loaned him, free of charge, once again... Totally anticonsumer and truly ridiculous.
Mugen90  +   331d ago
Well there still is used movies, books, cars, etc...
buynit  +   331d ago
Funny.. Not many ps diva queens sending the console to hell for this.

Anyway they are both being shady about it because they dont want the comp. To know how they are going to handle it..

Imagine ms putting rumors out on how they will charge or wont charge how much etc. To fool sony into doing it to then say no we are going the nintendo way with used games. Talk about egg on your face!

I think its to confuse each other but since some ppl cant just wait till all is told and love to speculate a lot of gamers get dumb and confused.

Just frikin wait!
#11 (Edited 331d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(9) | Report | Reply
McScroggz  +   331d ago
If the PS4 uses the same used games practices as the Xbox One seems to have in place, there will be an uproar. The reason there isn't any at the moment is because Sony made is seem as if they aren't blocking used games or forcing a fee to play used games, whereas most of what we've heard from Microsoft has confirmed it.
buynit  +   331d ago
Oh please... The only uproar we will see is everyone scrambling for the consoles with or with out some sort of drm.

And no.... No slack shall be given! Lol... If they made it "seem" like if they wont do anything about used games then why didnt they just flat out say it?! Im not really asking because that will contradict my first post wouldnt it...

All i know is that i will buy all 3 anyway the only thing i dont know is the order i will buy them, well i know wiiu is last. my point is lets wait till its all on the table before we start all this negative up roar, have you been in any of the stupidly named xbox one articles/ opinions? Wow...gamers?
rainslacker  +   331d ago
No, I'm afraid Scroggz is right. The comments made by Sony were quite clear for the time, and while in retrospect since MS is using similar terminology and saying it can play used games...with a catch...it's cast doubt onto those original Sony statements. Since that wasn't a consideration at the time of the Sony interviews, it was never thought to be asked.

So in this case I think people are taking a wait and see approach...which is what many people of a particular console would call for given the situation(based on past experience). Either that, or they actually do want some clarification from Sony.

However, in MS case they have been very clear(or purposefully vague) that they are restricting used games in a very anti-consumer way. Hence the uproar. Not just from Sony fans, but MS fans as well.

Have no doubt that Sony fans would be in an uproar as well if Sony decides to do this, because for many of us, this is an issue which affects us, and transcends console preference.

Don't count the company apologists as speaking for all. I've seen them on the xbox side during all this, and you will see them on the Sony side if it happens to be that Sony will implement this, but the community will be very upset if their first or second option for next gen are both out the window because of this.
#11.1.2 (Edited 331d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(1) | Report
ger2396  +   331d ago
We have no idea what Sony will do. They did say they would leave it up to the publishers. Still no idea what that could mean.
#12 (Edited 331d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
McScroggz  +   331d ago
While I buy some used games, I try to buy new whenever I can afford it. I don't want used games to go away, but personally I'm more concerned with the pricing of games. I want to see there be a wide range of prices and for it to be used liberally as opposed to a rare "value" price. If more games came out at a $30 or $40 price point, we might see an influx in overall game sells.

So, if I had the choice of having used games an option or a wide range of game pricing (limited to $60 I think Sony said) I'd prefer the latter. Either way, I want these hardworking developers to get the money they deserve.
buynit  +   331d ago
Smart stuff! Did sony say that? Im leaning a little more towards the ps if something like that is exclusive to ps4 games.

Not all games are created equal.. Every genre has great games and we all know them, if your game cant come close to god of war, mario,metal gear solid, halo, gt, forza, nba k, fallout, darksiders 2, demon souls etc. Why would you ask 60? We need that nintendo quality gold seal, remember that? And give it that meaning feeling of, yes you are about to buy a great game!

I would pay $60 for batman arkham but i wouldnt consider batman legos for 60 cause i got my son in batman mode lol..

Their are so many games that i would try but know its not 60 worth to me and by the time it drops down in price i would either get it a lot cheaper used sooner or just forget about.

Im a hard worker and you always want to get paid for your work but as a developer you know if you have something great or not price it right. They dont like to get stiffed out of used game sales just as much as i dont like getting stiffedwith prices either. Why the hell are online games priced the same as packaged retail games? You cut a few middle men out didnt you? Ans ms cant use the bs, we have to pay to keep it running, then maybe you should have used a small portion of that nfl contract money from the live subscription that has been made over the years.
#13.1 (Edited 331d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
NateCole  +   331d ago
http://asia.cnet.com/ps4-wi...

For those that are trying to put Sony together with MS.

Big difference.
Vames  +   331d ago
That is not a clear answer. Both consoles supports used games, the only difference here is that Microsoft outlined how, Sony hasn't.
Kakashi Hatake  +   331d ago
Having to pay full price for a used disc isn't the same as supporting used games. MS is using semantics to damage control and now thats making everyone rethink what Sony said. I mean what more do they have to do, demonstrate a used game on stage? PS4 doesn't have to be installed to the console while XONE does. This article reeks of desperation to drag Sony down with MS.
defiance187  +   330d ago
They didn't say you have to pay full price unless you want to keep it and your buddy wants it also then he could use your disc to install then pay full price and have his own game whilst you keep it also. they said of trading games that they will have a system in place for you to trade in and buy games starting at brick and mortar stores then it gets muddled after that with no clarification on how that works with transferring of licenses and whatnot If sony as you fanboys say isn'y doing this then hell ya ps4 is for me but call me paranoid or logical because i think they are doin the same shitand if thats the case i guess im down to wii-u.
r21  +   331d ago
Ugh, i hate when companies dont give clear answers. I just want a solid yes or no. Thats it, no blah blah used blah blah.
WeAreLegion  +   331d ago
If Sony blocks used games, I won't be purchasing either console. Most people will do the same. Both Sony and Microsoft will be responsible for destroying the video game industry.
NateCole  +   331d ago
Yes. Agree. But Sony already said they will not blocked used games unless something changed since

http://asia.cnet.com/ps4-wi...
kalkano  +   331d ago
A 2nd crash of the industry is starting to sound very necessary. The only way to fix this (if these rumors are true), is to completely tear it down, and start from scratch.
jessupj  +   330d ago
I hope that would be true and they would quickly stop blocking used games.

Unfortunately, I see the stupid sheep flocking to each console and ruining it for the rest of us with actual standards.
Kakashi Hatake  +   331d ago
I like how pro Xbox people have been saying Sony may block used games despite many confirmations from Sony themselves that they won't. They desperately want to drag Sony down to MS lol.
jetlian  +   331d ago
neither blocks used games totally. the problem is how much will it cost to unblock them! could be the same as online pass or it could be more.

We also don't know how borrowing is effected by these blockings
Kakashi Hatake  +   331d ago
Playing after paying full price for a used disc ISN'T the same as supporting used game. MS is being shady with their semantics.
Campy da Camper  +   331d ago
I'm a sony lover. Look at my history. Problem is they said they won't block used games but didn't say if you would have to pay a fee to play them. They simply said they are not talking g about that at this time.

So, sure it will play a used game but when you put it in will there be a message that says to continue playing please buy a "pass" or "used game license"? This is the 50000 dollar question for people.

For me I'm not to worried for I buy my games new anyway. Never really lend them out and if I do then my friend d has to pay so I dont care. What I am glad for is so y is not doing that camera always on thing. THAT is what would cause me great concern and make my decision to purchase the console less certain.
#17.2 (Edited 331d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Veneno  +   331d ago
It wouldnt be a problem for me either, but what would be a problem is having to be online for authentication. I want to play my games without Sony or Microsoft spying on me whether im honestmor not. Its not their place. And I want to play game s without internet connection like I have my whole life. I payed the money, now let me play what I payed for.
MoreRPG  +   331d ago
I think Sony was waiting for MS to take the first step
Zcarnut  +   331d ago
http://www.gameinformer.com...

This topic came up in Febuary, but for some reason few thought it was newsworthy then. Not the blocking part, but the "fee" issue.
MoreRPG  +   331d ago
I hate that Sony isnt giving us a clear answer about used games
PANTHER1030  +   331d ago
"PS4 games will be playable without an Internet connection."

http://kotaku.com/5985874/p...

Sony tells Eurogamer: PlayStation 4 will not block used games

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

Doesn't exist form to block second hand games if you are offline. However, some companies could use DRM technology. An example was PC's game Sim City, but this is unlikely because the experience was very bad for EA.
#19 (Edited 331d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
cyguration  +   331d ago
I can't believe people are still bringing this up, the XDF is out in full force to try to make it like the PS4 is just as anti-consumer as the XB1 and that's just not true.

Dang...people need to just READ directly what Sony's head honchos have said and get informed.

PS4 CAN PLAY USED GAMES!
Campy da Camper  +   331d ago
Will you have to pay to do that, though?
younglj01  +   331d ago
Lol it only took an day...
smashcrashbash  +   331d ago
Okay now you guys are really starting to get pathetic now.Just because Microsoft hasn't made it's stand against used games clear suddenly Sony's own isn't clear? they said 'We will not block used games'.And now we are back too MAYBE they might do it later or find someway to do it? Is this some sort of retaliation to defend the Xbox one by boomeranging back to what was already said? 'Oh Microsoft was confusing about what they plan to do bout used games but hey so was Sony so it alright.Sony MIGHT still do it even though they said they weren't going to so don't count them out yet' I mean do you hear yourselves? Are we still defending Microsoft's extremely vague reveal by trying to say Sony was just as vague.Well sorry.No one was as vague as Microsoft was in their reveal.
isarai  +   331d ago
PS4 seems pretty damn clear to me

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...
Nocando  +   331d ago
Guess what? I don't know. This is just getting nuts.I am out until e3.
#23 (Edited 331d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Cherchez La Ghost  +   331d ago
Like I said before....... Gamestop (AKA Gamecrooks) started this crap!! They could have at least gave publishers a cut for a game they created being resold and not get no money for it. Now think about it....! If MS give uphold rights for publishers in the used games market. And Sony states it's up to the publishers for their games to play on the PS4. What do you think the outcome will be?!

When it comes to media and online, the rules are changing. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid thinking Sony going to stay the same. And look what Sony did for PS3 support for PS2 games. Besides, I'm still keeping my PS3 and 360.
Veneno  +   331d ago
If this is the fault of Gamestop, then why are gamers being punished for it? If Gamestop is the problem, why not take it to them instead of gamers?
tracyllrkn  +   331d ago
No company cares if you don't buy their console because you can't play used games without a fee. Because you buying it used doesn't help them. And I think we'll see a lot more micro-transactions this upcoming gen because companies want to make a profit off of their game so they won't be in any financial troubles.
hazelamy  +   331d ago
well, we'll find out by launch.
just don't buy day one is my recommendation.
Adolph Fitler  +   331d ago
Not only this fact that Sony won't block used games with PS4.......but on top of that, they leave there games REGION FREE, meaning we have even more purchasing options, in getting imports either not available to us, and/or for a cheaper price.
Sorry, but facts are facts, Sony is not blocking used games, & they have supported region free gaming for PSP, Vita & PS3 & I see no reason that PS4 won't continue that awesome trend.
Gr81  +   331d ago
This
Is what I've been saying. People are jumping all over M$ (deservedly so btw, as this is disgusting business practices)But then the same folks are supposedly running to Sony for salvation, even though their policies will be the same lol. Don't have sacred cows folks. Sony already does practices like this with PS3.

The issue is not 'blocking used games' that's how the questions have been formed and each representative from Sony has skated around the issue. Its not about PS4 blocking used games its about the extra FEE charged to get access to the content on the disc.

If you buy a game used on PS3, many games require a fee in order for you to play online for multiplayer etc. This is happening now, and it is disgusting! Once you buy a game its yours and you should be able to do with that game any thing you want. Including bringing it over to a friends house to play.

This is all bull shit. And the fact that some of you guys are defending these practices tells me 1 of 2 things;

1) You are a viral marketer attempting to sway public opinion.

2)You are a gaming addict who is weak minded and easily manipulated.

Wake up. This is awful. And ANY company illustrating such practices should be ignored and thus punished.
kalkano  +   331d ago
Now, I don't know the law to the letter, but I feel like I could sue the sh*t out of any company that restricts the use of something that I own.
isyourhouseonfire  +   331d ago
It's time to crush pre-owned like pre-owned has been crushing the industry. I just hope Sony wises up and follows Microsoft's lead.
hazelamy  +   331d ago
mint sauce.
MINT SAUCE.
Kidmyst  +   331d ago
All in all, I want to know years from now when servers no longer support these consoles and I have nothing to connect it to on the internet, will I still be able to play the single player games? So far Xbox one requires to connect to the internet every 24hrs. But what if you can't do the games become useless? All my past consoles work and I can hook them up and play any game when I want, I hope this is the same still.
kalkano  +   331d ago
Exactly. If I buy something, and it becomes a brick, I'm going to go looking to get a FULL refund (I don't care if it's years down the road). Business no longer exists? SOMEBODY OWES ME MONEY!
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