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PS4′s ‘Answer to the Pre-Owned Games Question’ is Still Just as Unclear as Xbox One’s

GenGAME writes: "Frankly, trading and buying used games shouldn’t require any kind of 'solution.' It should be possible and practical by default because they’re based on physical freaking media that can serve as its own DRM if companies are really concerned about people simply installing and giving their discs away. Why does it have to be any more complicated than 'if you want to play media installed from the disc, you need the disc'?

"Microsoft isn’t alone in being horrendously vague and unclear about the 'solution' to pre-owned games – implying of course that pre-owned games are a problem that has to be 'solved.' Sony’s contributed its fair share of non-answers to the discussion as well."

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legendoflex1136d ago

Microsoft: "We have a solution to the used games problem"
Sony: "We have an answer to the pre-owned question"
Nintendo: "We have no features that discourage used games"

thechosenone1136d ago (Edited 1136d ago )

Not true. Sony said the would leave it to companies to decided on the issue of used games but that the PS4 would not block used games on the hardware itself.

Also the PS4 can be played offline indefinitely, games can be launched and played without needing an internet connection present. Those are the main and important differences between the PS4 and Xbone.

Once again MS lied about always connected DRM, lied about blocking used games and all the rumors about weaker specs were true. PS user have been vindicated and all the bubbles that were removed by the mods because people were marked down as trolls over the past two months should be returned and apologies should be offer. lol j/k

Intentions1136d ago

Really? Where does it say that?

If that is true, then are they still going to have online passes?

-.- Next-gen is confusing.

DragonKnight1136d ago

I have had to inform too many people on Sony's stance on used games. They have NOT been vague and this article's attempt at throwing Sony under the bus is ridiculous.

Read these articles:

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

http://arstechnica.com/gami...

Jack Tretton and Shuhei Yoshida have a lot more intimate knowledge about the used games situation than a Managing Director would. Both say used games will work. Eurogamer and Arstechnica both believe that this "leaving it up to the publishers" comment is in reference to the already existing online pass system that is in place.

I mean, if Sony themselves as a first party publisher aren't blocking used games, and they've come right out and said they aren't, what makes anyone think they're going to hand that ability over to 3rd party publishers when they know it would mean taking a huge chance in the sales department?

MysticStrummer1136d ago

Whether they said that or not, it's the smart way to go. Put the blame on the publishers and let them have the backlash.

maniacmayhem1136d ago

@Dragon

Maybe I read those two links wrong but Sony is just as vague as MS has been. In fact one of your links Yoshida didn't even answer the question he had an advisor do a duck and cover.

Doesn't really inspire confidence.

xhi41136d ago (Edited 1136d ago )

SONY said, ‘for the record, I’m totally opposed to blocking used games. I think it’s great for the consumer that they can buy those. We have a customer that buys our console late in the cycle, pays less, is looking for value priced games, and I think it would be anti-consumer for us to do that.’

DragonKnight1136d ago

I guess you did read them wrong because in the Eurogamer article (who were the first ones with exclusive interviews), they mention the used games patent isn't for the PS4.

In the ArsTechnica article, Yoshida clearly states that disc based games will work on all PS4 hardware. Then Ars asks about online registration (which it believes is a possible reference to the already existing online passes) and Yoshida says Sony aren't doing it but will leave it up to the publishers. Keeping in mind that online passes are already determined by publishers, and also keeping in mind that Jack Tretton also said used games will work, how can anyone think Sony are being vague based on the word of one Managing Director of the UK branch? We're talking about the words of 2 CEOs and the research of two well known gaming journalism sites all saying the same thing here.

duli141136d ago

well sony haven't blocked used games on ps vita, vita and ps4 is supposed to go hand in hand according to sony. I'm not sure why they would treat the systems differently

Godmars2901136d ago

@maniacmayhem:
Um, no.

What Yoshida said couldn't have been more solid if his name was Solid Macsolid from Solidom Way in the land of Solidia.

And it was said *MONTHS* ago.

Still, people will ask again. And again.

Skips1136d ago (Edited 1136d ago )

http://www.vg247.com/2013/0...

Shuhei Yoshida

- "Used games can play on PS4."

^^^^
(How can you get anymore straight forward than that???) LMFAO! XD

- “That’s the general expectation by consumers. They purchase physical form, they want to use it everywhere, right? So that’s my expectation."

^^^^
(Being able to use something anywhere you want means no restrictions) LOL!

Oh yea, and from this article...
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

"Interestingly, I also spoke to a Sony source elsewhere at the event this evening who told me that the anti used-game patent discovered last month was actually nothing to do with PlayStation 4 at all."

So yeaaaaaa...

Swear to GOD! Xbox fanboys trying to look for something that's JUST NOT THERE! LMFAO! XD

NateCole1136d ago

Sony said PS4 will play used games. Period.

Unless Sony say so otherwise or there are restrictions like MS have outlined then there is absolutely no point in speculating on this.

Honestly. Why some of you want to create something out of nothing does not make any sense.

darthawesome901136d ago (Edited 1136d ago )

AM I THE ONLY PERSON WHO THINKS THAT THEY HAVE THE SOLUTION!!!

Ok so game companies don't like their games being sold used...On the other hand I don't like that I can't put my game on a friends console. And Microsoft wants to charge full retail.

So what about letting people play games on consoles that are part of my FRIENDS LIST. I mean what are the chances of someone buying used from Gamestop and being on my friends list...slim to none. Problem solved.

Now for those that want to go to Gamestop. Well I don't have a solution for everything after all. But I think the playing on a friends console solution was a good one.

thechosenone1136d ago

Official word from MS on these issues can be found here. A persistent connection is required. Sorry Xbox fans.

http://n4g.com/news/1263124...

JokesOnYou1136d ago (Edited 1136d ago )

Yeah sony said used games will be playable on ps4, but there is no concrete statement that a fee will not be required, in fact even in the links from Dragonknights post they leave the door open for online passes or just blaming the publisher if there is a used game fee, I mean micro said the same thing, in the interview with Phil that "we are not blocking used games" which goes to show you a lot depends on the definition of "blocking used games"= true they aren't IF you pay a fee that is.

Anyway no matter who does it its a stupid limitation. I'm glad X1 is taking a lot of heat over this used game DRM, keep it coming 'cause I think micro will listen we'll get a better console without this DRM crap in the end...well I hope.

Gh05t1136d ago

Just so we are clear in the realm of the English language M$ does not BLOCK used games. If at any point you can play a used game than it is not BLOCKED (fee or no fee).

I only bring this up because Sony saying they will not BLOCK used games does not mean that they can not do exactly what M$ is doing. and the fact that they haven't jumped out and said "Come to Sony we wont F*** you on used games like M$." worries me a little bit. Seriously why hasn't Sony jumped on this and said that they are not doing anything different than what we have come to expect from this generation.

BlmThug1136d ago

Every gen since the 7th gen seems to bring a whole load of crap with it. DLC, season passes, online passes, retailer exclusives, focus on motion controls etc.

MasterCornholio1136d ago

I hope that what Yoshida said was true and that you can play used games on the PS4 without any additional fees which isnt the case with the XBONER.

JackBNimble1136d ago

Online passes are up to the developer/publisher.

Paying $10 for an online pass is a hell off a lot different then having to pay full price for any game.

wampdog291135d ago

Yes, but they also pushed off the question after being asked more in depth questions. Sony said that they weren't willing to go into further detail at this point in time...

DonFreezer1135d ago

Why do you care so much about specs?Have you seen me crying because the ps2 holded back multiplatform gaming when the first Xbox had 100 more raw power?733 mhz cpu in contrast to a 333 one remember?

maniacmayhem1135d ago (Edited 1135d ago )

Xbox One can play used games too if that is the case just as Phil and the rest of the Xbox team has been saying.

Sony has already said that they will leave it up to the developer and they have stated nothing else about what they will do or handle used games. Yes he says the PS4 can play used games, but are there any tricks to playing it? Do I have to log into my account on another PS4 to play a game? How many devs and publishers are planning to support DRM since 98% of games are third parties.

Get it now?

Point is there has been no word yet from Sony if they plan on doing the same thing with used games as the Xbox One is.

With Sony being buddy, buddy with developers and supposedly listening to them and taking their advice and most developers being 100% against used sales it seems more plausible that they would also want restrictions on their games too.

Now I know for some blind Sony fanboys (ie Sonic200) can't handle that and believes everything Sony shoves in their face regardless but I'm just looking at everything so far presented. Nothing has been set in stone yet from Sony. There are still a lot of questions some have with them.

Now, I hope I'm wrong, there is no doubt that I am a strong supporter of the consumer and I hate all forms of DRM and locked content. So I truly hope that used games can be played on the ps4 restriction free. My Gamefly account hopes so too.

loulou1135d ago (Edited 1135d ago )

if its coming for microsoft it is coming for sony.

it's the publishers that want this. the publishers would not make games for microsoft if they were going it alone.. why? because they would know that microsoft would have just commited suicide. and i doubt that they would waste their time and money.

i think it also explains why no major publishers are concentrating on the wii u.

sonys comment that they will "leave it upto the publishers/devs" should be the only you need to hear. they are already trying to point the moaners in the direction of the problem.

i could be wrong and a hugely sucessful company like microsoft has just lost the plot. or that both platform holders have folded in the face of pressure from every major publisher..

e3 will answer many questions

Bobby Kotex1135d ago

And if game devs decide to do this you can answer with your wallets. You don't even have that option with Xbox1.

DragonKnight1135d ago

@maniacmayhem: Again, Sony in no way said that blocking used games will be up to the publisher. Yoshida's response was towards online registration (likely online passes) and that's something that is ALREADY up to publishers. The problem with articles like these is that they are running with the fallacy that Sony is giving publisher all the power to decide whether used games will work on the PS4 or not. Nothing about a fee was brought up.

I want to know why it's so difficult for people to read articles that have the answers they're looking for.

People are reading far too much into what Yoshida said and applying what they want him to be saying just to stir up B.S.

maniacmayhem1135d ago (Edited 1135d ago )

@Dragon

Are we seriously reading two different things here?

****Speaking at a roundtable session with the press attended by Ars Technica, Shuhei Yoshida stated that "when you purchase the disc-based games for PS4, that should work on any hardware." When asked whether games would require online registration, Yoshida noted that that decision was up to the publisher. When asked if Sony, as a publisher, would require games to be registered online, Yoshida said, "we are not talking about that plan."****

Yes, he said that used games would not be blocked but he also didn't say that there wouldn't be any sort of restriction on them. I think Yoshida knows the difference between Online Pass and Online Registration. Which by the way he did say that Online Reg. would be up to the publisher. Which if implemented WOULD and could block a used game!

He's dodging the question by providing a way too simplistic answer and not enough info.

***While Yoshida's statement leaves open the possibility that individual publishers can still block used games at will, it's just as likely he was simply leaving the door open for the kind of "Online Pass" purchase systems that already routinely limit certain online game functions in used copies of games.****

There is still doubt in each of those articles you provided, it's not as cut and dry as you and others are trying so very hard to make it appear. This article plainly explains just that. Again, technically Xbox One can play used games too as said by Phil Harrison. If Phil would have left it at that without providing any additional information after the fact it would have been the same as what Yoshida provided in his interview.

Regardless of anything you might think of the statements, one thing is clear is that Sony will have some of their own restrictions put in place on used games for their new system.

GamingWorldPeace1135d ago (Edited 1135d ago )

You people really think it is a coincident all these things aligning together within the past few months is a matter of chance?

1. Sony said they will not blocked used games but failed to admit about a fee or going into any further details.

2. Wii U aren't supported by EA. Nintendo doesn't have a system in placed that required an additional fee to play used games.

3. EA dropped their online pass program (out of their kind heart, no doubt /S)

4. The XboxOne will not blocked used games but a fee may be required. Further details incoming.

5. So far, no one from Sony had gone on Tweeter or leak any information after the MS conference regarding any statement about not requiring any fee for used games. Trust me, if I have a company on a rope and I have nothing to hide, you bet I will go on to advertise that advantage as much as possible.

If you put all of these things together, you will most likely find your answer.

defiance1871135d ago

i hate to burst your bubble but Microsoft also said used game would be playable. they just also said it would work differently. So by your logic Sony is being vague and not saying directly that it works the way it does now.

DragonKnight1135d ago

@maniac: Why would he talk about restrictions when he wasn't even asked if there would be any restrictions? He was asked point blank "will used games work" he said "yes." He was asked if games would require online registration (which Ars equates to possibly being online passes) he said "up to publishers but we're not doing that ourselves." What part of that is vague or confusing?

In the Eurogamer article, another Sony source flat out said the patent wasn't for the PS4.

So tell me, what's confusing or vague about Jack Tretton and Shuhei Yoshida expecting, not hoping, expecting used games to work, not talking about restrictions because no one even bothered to ask (and quite frankly "restrictions" are only being brought up now because of Microsoft), and pretty much everyone at Sony except for one Managing Director in the U.K. branch all saying the same thing about used games?

Absolutely nothing. What's going on here is that people are creating controversy over the fact that not a single media outlet bothered to ask Sony about restrictions, which is only now a problem because Microsoft WILL have restrictions. But Sony has layed out the proof everywhere. The PS4 and Vita are supposed to have heavy integration but the Vita doesn't restrict used games at all. The PS4 will NOT force an online connection EVER (confirmed by Sony) so how can any restrictions on used games be enforced? They can't because people will just play those games offline.

What's the problem here?

Can Sony change their minds? Yep. Have they been vague? F*ck no.

+ Show (24) more repliesLast reply 1135d ago
dedicatedtogamers1136d ago (Edited 1136d ago )

If Sony requires a used-game fee for all their games, I'm not getting a PS4. Sony may be caught in a tough spot. It is possible that they will have to allow certain companies (EA, Activision) to implement a used-game fee while choosing to not implement it for their own games.

This is VERY IMPORTANT: Sony has confirmed that PS4 will not require online. Sony has confirmed PS4 is not "always on". Sony has confirmed that they will not require always-on, but they will allow 3rd parties to do it if they want.

Why is this important? Used-game fees and online-required go hand-in-hand. A used-game fee is nearly impossible to enforce without an online-required system. People are missing this, but it is a HUGE part of this discussion.

@ legendoflex

Microsoft has actually confirmed that you CANNOT play offline. Online is required for Xbox One if you want to play your games, first to verify the game code, and once per day the Xbox One has to connect to Xbox Live.

legendoflex1136d ago

They have never said "you never need to connect your system to the Internet." All they've said is the same thing Microsoft has said: "You can play offline."

DragonKnight1136d ago

@legendoflex: What they said is you can turn any of their features off. There is no force, it's all optional. MS' features are non-optional. You will have to connect once every 24 hours, which means if you don't have internet than the Xbox One isn't for you. The PS4's "always-on" is meant only to facilitate updates and boot up, nothing more.

edonus1136d ago SpamShow
denawayne1136d ago

Mark my words right now. You WILL be able to play games offline on Xbox One. The game will not download onto your hard drive. It will play from the disk. No License will be attached to your profile BUT stuff like achievements, updates, multiplayer, etc will not be accessible. Basically the way it's done now on the 360. The minute that particular disk is taken online, it will attach itself to that profile until it is transferred to to next online profile. Only one online profile can play that license at a time. You want to play offline? hell, take it and play it on as many offline Xbox Ones as you want as long as you don't take it online. Once again, mark my words on this.

CalvinKlein1136d ago (Edited 1136d ago )

that could be a problem but I hope they hold out and launch with no used game blocking just like this gen so I can sell old games and buy more new(unused) ones like I do now. I think that ps4 will dominate with 100+ million sales and wiiu and xbox1 will struggle anywhere near their predecessors sales.

If that happens then the publishers will be forced to shut up and go with the best selling ps4 and its policy of used games being allowed. I think ps4 may dominate from the start easily now so it could happen if sony truly is for the gamers(and themselvs).

I think multiplats will sell better on ps4 anyways so it would be awesome to see developers reactions if games sell more on the system that allows used games than the one that doesnt. I hope sony allows used games so that happens.

paranoid19711136d ago

@DENAWAYNE
I'm pretty sure Microsoft have already stated that the game won't play from the disc, it HAS to be installed onto the hard drive. Also it will require online verification to play, and checked online once every 24 hours to continue playing.

MikeMyers1136d ago

Sony is letting Microsoft try and answer questions while they remain silent. Adam Sessler just had an hour long discussion about the new Xbox and many times he reiterated about how Sony never did answer the questions about used games properly. Sony could very well indeed lock games. Some PSN games already have DRM. Sony also adopted online passes which require a fee to unlock. They've also been sued over the rootkit scandal in their BMG music department.

If people here don't think Sony is also about control then you are very naive. They had a huge PR mess with remote game sharing as well on the PS3 which is what the Xbox One sounds like.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 1136d ago
showtimefolks1136d ago

After the backlash MS is getting you better believe Sony isn't messing with that stuff on ps4

jessupj1135d ago

That's what I'm really hoping.

I am going to be very despressed if Sony do this shit. There's no way I'm buying a console that puts restrictions on used games. Unless they have some kind of option for renters, but they were too short sighted to offer an Online pass plan for renters, so I wouldn't have much hope.

I am seriously scared for my hobby right now. Very Very scared.

Thirty3Three1136d ago

This article is BS, please report it.

They [Sony] did, indeed confirm it won't block used games. Thanks.

ZodTheRipper1136d ago

Thing is, now that MS is doing it and Sony let's the publishers decide for themselves, I fesr that PS4 users could face similar problems like Xbox users. I hope not but you never know ...online passes also were unimaginable at the times of the PS2.

Veneno1136d ago

MS' s plan for used games just seems ass backward, why even give the ability to play used games when you have to pay full retail price anway? How is going through the trouble of going to gamestop then going home to FULLY INSTALL a used game then paying MORE MONEY TO PLAY IT any different than just going to the marketplace and buying a new digital license?

Thefreeman0121135d ago

Nintendo is still irrelevant with the wii u

vork771135d ago

sony awnser is we pay you

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 1135d ago
Godmars2901136d ago

Yeah Sony. Still got some 'splaining to do...

Thatguy-3101136d ago

Think they might incorporate something that ties in with ps+.

Godmars2901136d ago

I expect that if there's any cloud-based BC, it'll be through PS+. Just have the whole backlog library there under the one subscription. Though they'll take their time filling everything up.

@NegativeCreepWA:
And by all limited account Sony has put that ball in the publisher's court, and are now watching the internet meltdown around MS.

NegativeCreepWA1136d ago

Both company's need too clarify this.

I was just watching address the sess, he made good point how neither wants too be first in restricting them, but both would benefit from it. At some point one of them will do it and the other will probably follow.

Godmars2901136d ago

Regardless of what you said "above", because of what's going on now with MS is going to cause everything that Sony said as well as says from now on to be reexamined. That to a large degree they likely have solid answers is only going to hurt MS, but they still need to provide those solid answers.

Sky_Walker1136d ago

Sony said it was up to the developer / publisher which we all know what what they will choose.

The truth is that this was a long time coming and MS is being more blunt and bold about it becuase they already know that all the big publishers are down with this and will show the XB1 more love id Sony does not do the same with the PS4.

I am not sad about buying used games since I buy all y games new but I am sad that I cannot lend or give to someone.

As much as I hate those crooks called Game Stop with them giving you $10 for a game and then selling it for $39, I would hate for them to go out of business because they provide alot of people with jobs.

legendoflex1136d ago (Edited 1136d ago )

TBH, I walked into a GameStop with 5 games and walked out with StarCraft II: HotS, $5 down on three games, and a renewed membership. It cost me something like $0.60. I think I bought those games (that I traded in) combined for about $80-90. So it's not that bad.

Then again, I'm SUPER choosy about what I buy in the first place.

Pillsbury11136d ago

You could have sold them on eBay and made way more.

T21136d ago

So 5 games for one ? Doesnt seem great ...

McScroggz1136d ago

You are going to have to explain that math to me. You traded in 5 games, which you paid around $80-90 dollars for, and received what amounts to $70 in store credit?

Rainstorm811135d ago

To the three morons above , when do you ever sell something and get the full price u paid for it?

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1135d ago
turnerdc1136d ago

Both Microsoft and Sony haven't given completely clear answers on used games. Times are changing and I think they will both handle used games differently to how they're handled today. Whether Xbox One and PS4 will take similar or radically different approaches though is yet to be seen.

legendoflex1136d ago

I get the impression that there's pressure coming from big publishers, and both Sony and MS are going into this believing there's not much to lose if the competition is doing it, too.

And, of course, the competition (PC/Steam) is ALREADY doing it.

turnerdc1136d ago (Edited 1136d ago )

I agree, several big publishers have been lamenting about it this entire generation so I'm not completely surprised that they're using their bargaining power to work something out with the next generation of consoles.

http://www.1up.com/news/act...

http://www.geek.com/games/e...

Additionally Sony themselves already implements an online pass system and the Vita does not allow a user to earn trophies on a pre-owned game; http://www.theverge.com/gam... . There is an easy work around (formatting the game card) though and I'm not a hundred percent sure if it's solely to discourage used game sales. Both Microsoft and Sony are focusing heavily on the cloud and if we ever do transition to a completely cloud based system then discs will be eliminated completely. It's only a matter of time...

tiffac0081136d ago

^are you sure about the Vita part? Because me and my friends share some of our games and we all got trophies.

turnerdc1136d ago

While I'm not a hundred percent sure it's for EVERY single Vita game, it's something that definitely happens and was reported by several gaming sites.

http://www.pocketgamer.co.u...

http://www.joystiq.com/2012...

If you search Google about it you can find out much more info.

tiffac0081136d ago

That is a possibility I will borrow a lot of my buddies Vita games to experiment.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1136d ago
waltercross1136d ago (Edited 1136d ago )

The XBOX has a clear answer, no Idea why the Title says "Just as unclear as the XBOX Ones".

EDIT: You need to pay a fee to install a used game onto your account, no idea why I get disagrees for saying the truth.

Erimgard1136d ago

Not really.
-Microsoft rep says there's an activation fee for used games
-Xbox twitter account says that's not true
-Microsoft VP says it IS true, and the activation fee is full price.
-Major Nelson says don't believe anything you've heard because nothing is set in stone yet

waltercross1136d ago

Everything I read so far says there is an activation fee but It's unclear how much.

MysticStrummer1136d ago

Seems like there are definitely fees involved...

http://www.lazygamer.net/24...

Cueil1135d ago

here is the key part people...
Nothing is set in stone! So I'm encouraging the moaning and crying... say it load... cry from the top of the hill that you don't want it. Because if the voice is loud enough and there are enough people then maybe Microsoft will do something more consumer friendly.