Recently, Microsoft's Xbox Division boss Phil Spencer stated via Direct X12 for Xbox One won't be massive change but it will unlock more capability for Xbox One developers. Fans and critics were surprised with this statement from Spencer and reacted sharply as Direct X12 is touted as a game changer for Xbox One in next-gen console war against Playstation 4.
High end PC game developers will be setting their memory requirements higher in the future due to Scorpio.
Mediocre? Lmao
Edit: CPU, nevermind. Indeed Jaguar is mediocre, next gen we need some badass CPUs on Consoles.
Like the article states DX12 takes the burden off the CPU. Also, what about the comand chip between the GPU and CPU, that as well should also take the stress of the CPU. So, before making any judgement, lets wait til E3 so that we all can see how these new tech ideas work.
Not many games use directx12 and DX12 was already hardcoded to the x1. So we know that its effect isnt as powerfull as it originally seemed
@zivtheawesome
You can't compare the two(X1/scorpio), both systems are different in thier approch hardware wise. The x1 doesn't have a command chip between it CPU/GPU. I guessing MS finally realized, after many test run, they need a command chip to make DX12 work more efficiently.
MS said during the tech interviews about the XB1 HW that they modified the command processors. MS also said after the Scorpio reveal that the Scorpio had the same DX12 HW as XB1. Scorpio has many other modifications besides the embedded DX12, but it at least shares that part of it's architecture with the OG console.
Matter of fact, Brad also said that DX12 was going to have a significant impact on XB1 performance way back when. That was the last thing he said before MS put the clamps on him, then Spencer said that DX12 will make XB1 better at what it was designed to do. I guess now we also know Brad wasn't lying, because now he's saying that his core neutral engine is going to exploit the DX12 HW in the XB1's, just like he was saying before MS shut him up. This is likely due to the fact that MS knew how long it would be before engines could be developed that fully exploit all of the innovations MS made to the XB1. Spencer also told the truth, because the XB1 was designed to take advantage of core neutral engines offloading draw calls to the command processor.
Turn 10 essentially confirms all of this too by saying that taking advantage of coding for Scorpio will also make XB1look better.
It is not a command chip - it is a part of GPU, and it is already done in X1...
https://twitter.com/digital...
Thanks for posting that, Regor L. That's the confirmation of DX12 HW in the XB1 command processor I was referring to.
@RegorL
Like I have meantioned before,"You can't compare the two(X1/scorpio), both systems are completely different in thier approch hardware wise"
Though, you might be right that the x1 also has a command processor under it hood. However, the x1 has an ESRAM while the scorpio don't, and to that note, it will certainly make a world of difference because as it stands the x1 is likely to have a lot more bottleneck than the scorpio. Everything has been reworked on the scorpio which makes it a much better gaming system than X1. So again, you can't compare the two(x1/scorpio).
From the article:
The analysis notes that all the pieces have been further customised by Microsoft, taking them beyond their off-the-shelf PC parts status. Microsoft reportedly “profiled” existing Xbox One games to identify bottleneck in order to avoid them when making Scorpio. The company said that over 60 customisations were made to the GPU pipeline to eliminate areas that negatively affected games’ performance in the past.
https://www.vg247.com/2017/...
Plus they doubled the l2 cache compared to the pro. Quite a few tweaks in addition to the clock boost.
DX12 doesn't take the burden off the CPU, it actually puts more work into the CPU by multi threading most of the work. ( this is a good thing ).
The command chip is brilliant tho.
SD11, MS doubled the L2 cache in the GPU. The CPU still has the same amount of L2 as the OG XB1 does. I made the same mistake too.
I just double checked. Unless the Scorpio has 16MB of L2 cache within the Jag CPU, it has the same 4MB that XB1 and PS4 have already. Can anyone provide a link that shows this 4x increase is true?
The only cache that has been upgraded is the GPU L2, which went from 512KB to 2MB.
@TheCommentator
They were taking about the AMD Ryzen CPU having 16mb of speedy L3 cache. The scorpio doesn't have AMD Ryzen CPU under it hood. And, from what I have gathered from many gaming sites, the scorpio have a jaguar CPU, which only has 4MB of L2 cache. I guessing it was just a rumour, and that's it.
From the article:
Introduction AMD Ryzen processors are now entrenched firmly in the PC firmament. They offer particularly appealing performance-per-dollar if you are able to harness all of the cores and threads. It is usual to equip hugely multithreaded chips with lots of onboard cache that helps to keep the beasts full of data. And Ryzen is no exception, as the eight-core, 16-thread CPUs have a wholesome 16MB of speedy L3 cache to tap into. Yet teasing out the last morsel of performance means running system memory at higher-than-default speeds. The gains may well be marginal, truth be told, though the small price premium for, say, DDR4-3,200 memory over DDR4-2,666 should be worth it. This is exactly why memory manufacturers have been pushing 3,000MHz-plus kits for the Ryzen CPU, whose supporting platforms are now far more stable than at launch a couple of months ago.
https://m.itbnews.info/tag/...
"mediocre improvement in CPU"? LOL!! DX12 is only one of like 12 things that were customized on the Scorpio to help reduce the workload on the CPU and prevent bottleneck issues. Gamingbolt never mentions that for some reason.
I think the majority of the games will be able to run at native 4K, 30fps with hardly any problems.
Isn't the Stardock guy the one that talked in the past about how great the X1 will be and how DX12 will make the X1 so much more powerful? I wouldn't take anything serious that this guy is saying no matter if it's positive or negative what he is saying.
If only. They can't even see what mediocre looks like from the gutter they dwell in.
How to Gamingbolt:
Interviews some random dev*
Posts article on N4G*
"Scorpio/PS4 is *Insert comment here*" -
OompaLoompa Dev
@ 343_Guilty_Spark: you got downvoted because you're wrong. Microsoft already stated that it was for price AND compatibility reasons. it was very important to them that 100% of Xbox One AND 360 backward compatible games work on Scorpio. so they went with a highly modified Jaguar, they tested it with all the modern engines (like Unreal 4) & made modifications to the Jaguar where they saw fit in order to get rid of all the bottle necks the standard Xbox One had that caused certain games to only reach 720p & 900p (remember how Tomb Raider X1 was 30fps & PS4 was unlocked 60fps... thats also a bottleneck)... now ALL the 1st party games run in native 4K & many of the 3rd party games will also... they stuck with Jaguar because they are going to attempt to hit $399. mark my words.
They would lose money if they price it at $399. No way they'll make profit at that price. Since its a premium product $499 mark my words.
@ ShadowKnight: Sony fans want Scorpio to be $499 so badly because they know Xboxes won't move at that price. they told people "premium" & had Digital Foundry tell people to "expect $500" to set people's expectations high & then they'll undercut everyones expectations for a big E3 reaction. its PR-101. at the end of the day its still a jaguar CPU. a relatively cheap component. if they truly wanted to go "premium" they would've went with Ryzen/Vega but my guess is they wanted to keep the cost down.
@TFxGod6h ago
"ShadowKnight: Sony fans want Scorpio to be $499 so badly because they know Xboxes won't move at that price. they told people "premium" & had Digital Foundry tell people to "expect $500" to set people's expectations high & then they'll undercut everyones expectations for a big E3 reaction. its PR-101. at the end of the day its still a jaguar CPU. a relatively cheap component. if they truly wanted to go "premium" they would've went with Ryzen/Vega but my guess is they wanted to keep the cost down."
The funny thing is he said earlier that $499 is too high for a console (even though over 10 years ago the PS3 was $599) and now thinks there is no way it can be $399. It's obvious he is setting this up so that no matter what it sells at there is no good price, he wants it to fail.
I think the issue with those games reaching 1080p on ps4 vs xbox 1 is more about the GPU instead of the CPU. Isn't the cpu in the Xbox 1 the same as the one in the ps4 , but the Xbox 1's cpu is clocked higher. It's the GPU that is about 50% stronger in the ps4 that is causing the parity.
@Moldybread
You keep going back into the past. Since you like to talk about the past and a different era I'll say this when the ps3 was $599 it struggled at that price for a while until they gave it a price drop. Xbox one is already struggling this generation compared to last generation. So how will they make profit at $399 for each Scorpio they sell? They will lose money at that price. It should be $499 if they want to make profit even though I disagree with that price. Don't forget that was my opinion. Do I want the Scorpio to fail I actually think Microsoft already failed this era compared to the Xbox 360 era. Tbh I don't know what Microsoft can do at this point. The best thing they can do is hope that third-party support will be enough for them to make profit and that the Scorpio resolution is not just a marginal increase compared to the ps4pro. If they make Scorpio only exclusives that would affect the Xbox one install base.
Good old Shadowkinght, wanting to keep putting Microsoft in a no win position. You say it should be$499 but earlier said that's too high for a game console. You won't buy it even if it was$299 so why keep wasting your time and everyone else's time.
Scorpio is a premium product it should cost more than the Pro. What you keep failing to grasp is the Xbox One is still there for the more conservative gamer. But that system doesn't interest you either. Amazing how much you invest in a product that you have no desire to support.
It absolutely will hold it back, anyone who has ever tried to put a more powerful GPU in their PC without upgrading the CPU as well knows that bottlenecking is a real issue. It effects some games more than others to be sure, but it will definitely hold it back compared to what it could do with a decent cpu. Though, I think MS should worry more about acquiring some decent games than bottlenecking tbh.
As soon as u directly compare pc to console I knew you didn't know what u were talking about 😩
Thats why they added a co-processor that delegates to the GPU in only a few instructions.
The CPU will be fine actually.
Where is massive cloud power? That will solve any problem and its the trump card against og ps4 XD
Was that the final bug-free game that works across the globe over consumer internet connections or was it an early version that runs in a local network?
That's nearly 2 years old now and still no clue as if the game will even be out by the end of 2018. Fairly irrelevant.
Great where can I buy this game?
It was promised to offer games not one games? And that one game that only use that utimate power not even released yet? What a prove :) good job.
Question is, why did they not improve the CPU? Throwing all this ram and teraflops but still using a crappy CPU
Based on what we've seen the performance with this CPU is pretty good. You can't look at configuration from the perspective of a PC part.
Because it wasn't necessary to upgrade the CPU's.
People are too hung up on the consoles CPU power. But the CPU isn't even a bottleneck in the stock consoles that started this generation.
If a dev decides to be CPU heavy with their games, then it could be a problem, but neither the PS4 or X1 are designed to have their games designed around CPU intensive tasks. Every developer white paper strongly states that offloading to GPU is the preferred method to maximize performance.
Quite seriously, outside of one game that was sloppily done, how many games this gen have people complained about CPU performance? There aren't any....because the CPU isn't a problem.
Old dry, stale games lol hahaha
(I love this game it's fun :))
Read the article, they used a draft headline accidentally and Brad Wardell never said the Scorpio CPU was mediocre, Gamingbolt said that in a question they asked him. Even as a draft headline it's terrible and misleading, but no one but them called the CPU mediocre.
People are just upset it's not as much of a mediocre CPU upgrade as the PS4 Pro was and haters got to hate on something.
Kind of shows they start their interviews and articles hoping to come to a forgone conclusion don't ya think?
Y'know, sometimes limitations actually make things better. Jaws was a better movie because Spielberg didn't have unlimited resources. Star Wars was a better movie because Lucas has to make due with what he had. Journey was a better game because the devs didn't have all the money in the world.
Remember, The Last of Us was an amazing game created on ancient hardware. Sometimes it's not about what you have, but how you use it.
Oh a bitter troll...Stop eating such bitter food troll...you won't be so bitter.
Some of you guys are in denial. Scorpio is going to perform at a high level and you know it. Don't let your allegiance to a certain platform cloud your judgment. Even if Scorpio is a bit light on exclusives compared to PS4 and Switch, the very fact that 3rd party games will look and run best on Scorpio will be enough for many gamers to buy it.
Scorpio will be the place to play multiplats regardless of what the majority of N4G want to believe
Very true...Not every console owner is loyal to the company that makes the hardware...Millions will always go to where the better COD or Battlefield experience is. Been like that for many years.
you have a year and a half to boast about multiplats
then what, back to the power of the cloud, wait till e3, wait till halo, wait till directx 13, wait till scorpio 2
Well I'm an avid PS4 fan as well sooo... I don't really take offense to losing the power advantage the way you seem to have. You should relax
jaguar was mediocre even on the og 8th gen consoles lol. It was always mediocre, but it works and is cheap.
Can someone explain why are the jag cpu so weak? What are the diferences for a good gaming cpu. Its speed? Should be much faster?
Why dont the cpu evolve fast like the gpu?
Not much if anything to worry about..The Scorpio looks to be made to do everything reported on. The CPU by todays standards, on paper is a bit under powered, but not by much when it comes down to it...Add the optimization of DX12 along with a well designed console with everything working with seamlessly with everything else and you literally have a powerhouse..IF MS brings the Scorpio in at $449 to $499 along with some new IP's and maybe more PC ports it is going to sell very well!
Bandwidth mostly. it's a low power mobile CPU not meant for sustained heavy loads.
As far as the difference between a gaming CPU....by which I assume you mean on PC....it's mostly in how well the CPU can handle multiple processes which are not always related to the game at hand. There is no such thing as a gaming CPU, but more standard CPU designs tend to be able to handle more data at a time than one like the Jaguar.
As far as the Jaguar being weak. It's not. At least not for the consoles. People who keep harping on it don't have any clue just how the CPU's are utilized in consoles, and assume that a "weak" CPU means that it will hold things back in the actual game, when in fact it doesn't, because the consoles aren't designed to use the CPU in the same way that you'd expect from a PC setup. In fact, it's discouraged to do so, because GPU compute is much more efficient for most of the stuff used in modern game designs. The consoles themselves are actually designed to expect developers to offload the majority of it's tasks onto the GPU.
Best way to think of it is that there has only been one game this gen where CPU was an issue. One of the assassins creed's games. And that was just sloppy design, and actually more of a problem on the PS4 where it had a slower clock speed. These are from the stock consoles of this gen. So I'm not sure why all of a sudden people are worried about the CPU itself. It hasn't been a concern up to now, so there is no reason to think that a better and more powerful version of said CPU in Scorpio will suddenly be a problem. For the most part, MS other modifications to the overall system design will more than make up for whatever limitation people feel exist in the CPU's this gen.
Just look at the recommended system specs for the newest games and that will become the minimum requirement.
So essentially...not only is the CPU an upgrade over the past CPUs, but now even less is demanded from the CPU. One of the things that has me most excited about Scoprio isn't the specs specifically, it's the fact of how much research and optimization went it the box before the first chip was made...not only is it the most powerful console to date, it also seems to be the best optimized one EVER made. So the specs alone actually seem misleading...on the LOW side of things...which is new to gaming consoles. It seems as if it will actually be MORE powerful that gamers have come to expect from past consoles if one were JUST to look at the specs alone.
CPU hasn't been a concern this gen as far as I can tell. I'm at a loss why all of a sudden a more powerful version of what we already have is suddenly seen as mediocre and incapable of handling whatever games are being built for it.
This whole debate over the CPU has become one of the most rediculous things in the console war, because it seems like it's the only thing people can latch onto to try and downplay the specs of the Scorpio.
I haven't seen a single person be able to say why the stock versions of this gens CPU's are insufficient for the games we're getting....much less the Scorpio's more powerful version of it.
Also, from what I've seen so far, the overall system design is quite well done, and more than makes up for whatever CPU shortcomings may exist....particularly if the games are built around GPU compute the way MS intends it to be done....which is how developers currently do it.
Basically, Scorpio is indeed a very nice piece of kit....and I speak based on what I've seen from working for tools for the system in my work. No matter how I may feel about MS, they designed what is probably one of the most elegently designed pieces of console kit in history.
That being said, the Stardock guy is getting annoying. He's a PC dev. While he's certainly knowledgeable about computer engineering, he speaks in way too general terms, and from the interviews, it actually seems like he isn't even aware of any of the common dev whitepapers or design specs of the system with any practical knowledge of actually utilizing it on a daily basis. It seems all his comments are based on how it compares to PC, and comparing PC and consoles isn't always apt.
The fact it is not based on the Ryzen chip set already means it is outdated and it hasnt launched yet smh
Outdated?... yet just about every dev who has seen it and commented about it is loving it...Stop trolling.
Why's that?
Why is Ryzen's x86 better than Jaguar's x86?
Do you even know the difference between different classes of CPU's to be able to qualify your statement?
What would Ryzen bring to the table that can't be achieved with a standard Jaguar....which uses the same instruction set?
How would Ryzen improve on games nowadays given current game designs?
And mostly, at what point in this generation, has the Jaguar CPU been a problem to date? If the stock systems that started this gen were perfectly fine with the CPU, why is a more powerful version of the same processor now outdated?
And lastly, how is Jaguar outdated when what's replacing it isn't even out yet....in other words, Ryzen isn't even dated.
I'm dying to know all these answers....because to date, I haven't seen a single person explain why the CPU's are a problem, or even show a cursory knowledge on the differences between different generations of CPU's.
Trollingbolt bolt providing fake propaganda, Wake up N4G, fake news should mean a ban.
Wow. Gamingbolt are really milking this "Stardock CEO" interview into little pointless articles. Ask him when the next version of Windows Blinds is out lol. http://www.stardock.com/pro...
i found it funny how since scorpio was announced all the ms fanboys have forgot about the terrible time they have had this gen with a underpowered console that struggles to crack 900p and no future games in the works,
not to mention all the lies from ms about the secret sauce from dx12 and the cloud
how can you trust the scorpio will be any differant?
No future games in the works? Why bother even posting when all that comes out is BS?
who cares what they say about the xbox scorpio or ps4 pro just choose witch one you want 2 play on.niether one is going any where
In an exclusive interview with GamingBolt, Stardock CEO Brad Wardell revealed that the company had no plans to support the Nintendo Switch, citing the hardware being too different from the other major systems on the market. Wardell did add that Nintendo is one of those systems that doesn't need good third party support to be successful, however- but it looks like his comments went down poorly with some fans regardless.
Only people who are mad are idiots. Nintendo fans don't really seem to care about 3rd party because frankly those games just don't sell so hot on Nintendo. Why should any dev want to throw resources to Nintendo when it's Nintendo themselves who need to prove they give a crap.
It's a company whose sole purpose is to run their mouth constantly and provide gamingbolt with an endless supply of click bait headlines. I heard they sometimes make games too, but I've never seen one
I was going to say.... What exactly do they make? Also... the switch is just the same as the other platforms to program for. It is powered by Nvidia ....
A PC game developer who consistently wants to downplay consoles just to get their name in the press while they promote their own products, because I'd imagine the bulk of their revenue comes from their tools and game engine, because I never see their games talked about much, even in PC forums.
I guess Star Control would be one that's moderately well known in the PC world.
Wow! Frankly it seems you can't say anything anymore, without someone taking issue. He's a dev not just a gamer. So he above all has to take these kinds of things in account. I admire his initial honestly. But i don't like the fact that he had to later go on Twitter and try to straighten things up all because a few fans got upset. Man this world has really turned to shit. When folks feel like they have to backtrack on prior statements so not to so called offend or piss somebody off..
who are these people?
Never heard of them at all in all these years gaming. They trying to get attention by talking about the Switch.
They're actually pretty good developers who's games release primarily on PC. They're the devs behind Galactic civilisation, sins of a solar empire and offworld trading company.
Don't act like because you've never heard of them that it discredits everything they say.
it does discredit everything they say. A developer no one knows comes out of the blue and start talking like they making a big move in the industry
@OtakuDJK1NG-Rory,
They are only "out of the blue" to morons who spend their time with their heads shoved up Nintendo's ass.
"it does discredit everything they say"
Well, no one knows who you are so everything you've said is also discredited then.... You see the flaw in using fame as a measurement of credibility?
You've also shown your ignorance of the PC gaming scene If you're completely unaware of Stardock titles.
I understand that based on your comment history you're primarily a Nintendo fan (I am the same). But dont act like there isn't a large sphere of gaming that exists outside of where you commonly visit.
I discredit them because all stardock has done is downplay any and every thing console related, from all the companies this gen. DX12, Vulcan, Switch, Any change in mid-gen upgrades, etc. You name it...Wardell has downplayed it. Half the time in a vain attempt at promoting his own back end products of development tools and game engines. Nintendo is just the most recent punching back for them.
I think the guy is knowledgeable, but if he's actually interested in adding to the discussion, he needs to realize gamingbolt is only using him for his easily molded comments to achieve their own ends.
It begs the question, if their games are based on PC architecture, why are we getting almost weekly opinions from them about the different consoles, their features, their power, their games, and what they have to offer?
They are the one's that thought up of digital content distribution before Steam did and Brad Wardell is a big opponent of DRM. They have also made the excellent 4x game series Galactic Civilization as well as the RTS Sins of a Solar Empire.
Do you even game bro?
You would think an independent software developer that has been in business since 1991 would earn a little respect with these kids. Especially considering probably half of the immature comments here are made by people who were not alive in 1991.
My question is the same is others on this thread. Which is, who the fuck is Stardock? Which, subsequently brings me to my next question: what have they made that I'd feel like I'm missing out on their products? They're not Namco, Capcom or Platinum by any stretch.
Why does gamingbolt have an interview with this guy almost weekly? His engine and tools are good enough, but nothing extra special in the overall mix of what's available. Their games aren't even talked about that much in gaming forums....even when these interviews happen.
More importantly, if all his games are based on PC architecture, why does he always have so much to say about the consoles when asked. Can't this guy just say "no comment"?
I get he has technical knowledge that may be informational, but hasn't he come to the realization that gamingbolt isn't going to use his statements for anything other than their click bait fan boy nonsense.
They don't make games for consoles anyway. Just PC. Aside from that they sell PC software. Non news story.
Stardock CEO Brad Wardell said that Scorpio's 12GB GDDR5 RAM means that there'll be no real technical limits on the platform's games for a few years.
Still, he said it will take a couple years to fully utilize that and DirectX 12/Vulkan APIs since developers need to have a "core neutral engine" to make the most of these technologies.
More positivity on the road to scorpio. I guess this means loading up assets will be a breeze on scorpio.
Like Mr Wardell said "How many video cards have 8gigs of Gddr5?". No one will seriously fill the need for more ram even at 4K.
Nvidia gave a good comparison last month for what cards run 4K and 5K.
https://lanoc.org/images/re...
Noticed the 4K cards are ones with 8 gigs of GDDR5.
"It'll Take 2 Years To Fully Utilize Its Power" ...By that time PlayStation will have already unveiled (or be close to unveiling) their next home console.
@bumbleforce - "That's awsome then a year after ps5 comes out x2" ---- If (& i stress, IF) PS5 does come out 2yrs after Scorpio, Do you really think Xbox will release Scorpio's successor as soon as 3 years after Scorpio's release?
That's awsome then a year after ps5 comes out x2 will blow it out of the water. Gonna be how it is going forward sorry
But even still it's better than PS4Pro amd by then the next xbox will ne a thing so invalid point really!
It will not take 2 years for 4K assets and any extra graphical features to appear on Scorpio.
You will see all of that this year. No doubt about it.
@Mystogan - "nah, it will probably be 2020. Scorpio 2 will also come in 2020." ---- I'm slightly amazed that people think Scorpio's successor will release so soon
Consoles take a long time in R&D before they are finally released to the public, it also coasts a lot of money to develop... No way Sony will unveil a new console in two years. Sony has deep pockets but outside of the PS line they are still not doing all that great. Share holders would throw a fit it a new system was introduced so soon. Maybe 2020....Maybe. The pro is it for a while, which is fine...It is a good console even if it can't hit native 4k all that often.
then after x2 comes ps6...... I mean come on, if thats the rate then playstation will continue with its success in comparison to xbox. then nintendo will come up with some other thing some time. Just like whats been happening...
soo.....same as usual.
lol RAM isn't the bottleneck. I think 8gb of ram on a console is enough for any game. The bottleneck is the processing components, not the components that carry data and off-load data.
The fact that he says it won't be fully utilized means nothing when Xbox has no AAA exclusive. No developer AAA developer will specifically make a game that uses all the systems RAM. Now if Sony had a system like this they can utilize all of it on God of War, TLoU, Killzone etc.
@uptown:
That is easy, if Sony releases PS5 in 2020, MS releases Scorpio 2 in 2021. The pattern is already set!
What amazes me is how much effort MS put into designing Scorpio. It makes PS4 Pro look almost lazy and low effort by Sony. So I'm glad for the competition.
I almost made 2 post on N4G without a fanBOY ....almost. I guess the PS5 will come out of the gate fully optimized by developers? No? You've no argument fanBOY, you made up in your head becasue you're a fanBOY....sigh.
Probably around the same time as the ps5, the scorpio is an upgrade not a ext gen console.
Your guessing in regards to PS5. The Scorpio will shortly be fact. The defacto Console to play games on.
Yes because theyre not classifying it as a new gen console which is why all the games are also available on the One. Its a premium version just greasing people up for what M$ wants to turn it into. By them saying its not a new gen and using certain words it opens them up to release the next console sooner. This is nothing more than directing the market and going into what they think or want it to be.
"By that time PlayStation will have already unveiled (or be close to unveiling) their next home console."
I love it when people just pull facts out of a hat.
It's hillarious seeing Xboys getting wet on hardware release dates. "We will simply release a more powerful Xbox after every Playstation, that'll show 'em!"
Don't you realize PS4 is not succesful because it offers more power, but because it has the better games library? Don't you want Microsoft to finally start focussing on games instead of relying on 3rd parties? Sure Scorpio will be more powerful than PS4, but will it be the better console to own? At this point, you would be stupid to anticipate the Scorpio without having a PS4 to play all of it's amazing exclusives. Those are the things you should care about, not immature console wars.
@nx
The PS4 was so successful because it was the more powerful system that launched for $100 cheaper then the competition. The first year of sales happened with very few big exclusive games to drive that. It was better multiplats and cheaper price that jumped Sony ahead with the avg consumer, and the biggest buyer is the avg consumer, not the hardcore like a lot of us
@bumbleforce How stupid can you be, to think scorpio 2 is going to blow away the next sony console? Cmon man wtf is that logic? teh scorpio 2 doesn't exist, and wont for a very long time... also, scorpio is a codename lol, scorpio 2 makes no sense. The ps4/one released, then the pro came. Microsoft needed a way to reclaim ground THIS GEN, and will release the beast scorpio. This is an answer this gen, sony have played the right card and will ride out this gen on the ps4 pro, and will absolutely destroy the scorpio by truly starting a next gen, and I would imagine due to the nature of this "tit for tat bs by releasing consoles with more power" sony will be the 1st console to end all future gens by making a console which will be subject to possibly cheaper annual upgrades you can buy to upgrade the base model. Id imagine it'd be like a PClite approach, you cant change it, but they will release something, maybe go with cloud who knows lol! But trust me, all these damn consoles will end badly if it continues, when pc gaming is superior + cheaper per generation cycle. why would I buy an xbox 1 + scorpio in 1 gen when I could just invest in a pc and gain the true experience of full 4k etc. don't say its hugely cheaper either, if I cared so much for 4k id build my own pc, its slightly more expensive sure, but its superior. this gen, x1 + scorpio will have set you close to £1000 + games with gold costs. but yeah, I rambled on, scorpio is microsofts last attempt to gain ground after basically being raped without lube this gen. Its powerful sure, but 3 years from now console gaming will have evolved massively, you can thank the scorpio for this though, and props to Microsoft for this, forcing sony to answer with more!
Nice link. That shows some consensus behind the 8Gig for 4K thinking. The have another 4Gig there that can easily be tapped in the future if needed. OS doesn't really need 4G.
Higher resolution is more dependent on gpu and CPU. Any game out now won't use more than 8gb of system memory for a console. It's only an issue if they try to put next gen games on Scorpio. Anything this gen will be fine.
fatbastard how many meals did you skip in order to save up for your beastly rig?
http://s2.n4g.com/usersav/8...
Good signs of things to come in this article for sure! 😃
I wanted to point out to those of you constantly asking, "Why hasn't DX12 hasnt done anything yet?" when I say that engines need to be built for DX12 to take advantage of DX12 HW... PLEASE read this article. Brad Wardell explains exactly why the XB1's DX12 HW will become much more efficient in the next few years. He says that only his engine is core neutral, and that other devs will still need a few years to catch up to what his engine can do. Why hasn't this happened sooner then?
That's MS' business and they haven't shared it. but that doesn't change the issue of having Brad confirm here what I've maintained all along; DX12 HW inside the XB1 has not been fully exploited yet because the engines don't exist. XB1 is not weak hardware either because of the DX12 accelerators. Brad's statements in this article also serve to strengthen the statements by Turn 10 that programming specifically for Scorpio will make XB1 games look better. Phil said DX12 would make XB1 better at doing the things it was designed to do, right? Put that into context now. XB1 was designed to be DX12 machine, and Phil mentions that too when he said that MS knew what DX12 was doing when they built the XB1.
E3 is just the tip of the iceberg for Scorpio AND XB1's evolution. XB1 will be at least at parity with PS4 in a few years because MS did build an extremely efficient machine. Why do you think the XB1 is virtually silent all the time? There's more juice to squeeze from new engines. When that happens, I'll be right here telling all the dissenters that they should have seen it coming all along.
You may be correct but by then this gen will be over and shouldn't that extra sauce enable VR which is exclusive to Scorpio and shouldn't they be able to keep kinect runnable aswell?
MS developed the XB1 to be a 10 year console, and two years from now we'll only be 6 years into the generation. My point though, is more to prove that MS did build XB1 with more advanced tech inside it than people were willing to admit. Beside you guys think that MS didn't do the same thing to Scorpio too, with 60 improvements to the off the shelf parts? Think about it; Eurogamer couldn't even identify what the CPU was and had to assume it was still Jag.
Sir Bradders, rumor has it that MS already has plans to do just that when they unveil their plans for VR next year. I don't remember where I saw it, but MS was talking about bringing VR to the Xbox. Their words, and they didn't say Scorpio, they said Xbox. Honestly, it could mean anything, but it was an interesting enough statement that it lead me to hypothesize that they may have meant the Xbox Family of devices. I guess we'll see next year when MS talks up VR for real. Also, Kinect already runs on XB1S and likewise on Scorpio with an adapter.
Ju, it's not really hope at this point. If it weren't true, we wouldn't keep getting information that corroborates the notion of efficiency in the XB1 processors waiting for proper engines. Remember when Brad initially said too much about what DX12 would really do for XB1, and then went completely quiet afterwards? The NDA's, the one's nobody believed existed because XB1 was supposedly weak standard PC parts, were real. MS/AMD were also working on Scorpio at that time, and it just makes sense that didn't want the tech to be talked about until it could be exploited. This meant core neutral DX12 engines that could properly support the DX12 HW. Just look at what happened when MS talked about Cloudgine too early and you'll see why it was better not to talk about DX12 at all.
Please Commentator, give it a rest. You got the more powerful next gen console. But the XBO simply is underpowered compared to the PS4. No so fine granulated low latency multithreading will ever push it beyond the PS4. Sure not the Scorpio as a primary platform. I rather think 720p will become the new standard there. Developers will overload the Scorpio version and then try to squeeze this into the XBO in the hope the tools will do the optimization. It's not gonna happen. There is no magical sauce.
Especially when the competition has indeed the much closer to the metal high efficiency low latency kernel.
Nice title. So is there no limit or the limit will be reached in 2 years?
And how exactly does throwing RAM overcome the other parts? You can have 120GB of RAM... won't mean shit if the rest of the system holds it back.
The ancient memory argument simply won't die...
the memory pool is just an illustration of how much information a computer can have 'ready' to be calculated...Scorpio still has a cpu originally intended to run on a battery (it literally is a low TDP laptop part)...
but seriously...w/e, this is nothing new...a dev comes out and claims limitless power because of big amounts of memory feeding a very dated processor...and it's great news as far as the console crowd goes...and that is the way it'll always be...
But that's 4k at ultra, you can hit 4k with as little as 4 GB vram if you play games at medium/high.
so many fanboys in these comments, if you like what sony offer buy a PS4, if you like what microsoft offer, choose an xbox one
then be happy, or if you can afford both?, get both, stop arguing one's better than the other, it's childish
If history has taught us anything, maybe in two years, MS will announce a new console and scrap all support for Scorpio.
What does 'core neutral' even mean when it comes to game engines? Is that some new buzzword Stardock came up with?
It means that it's a true multicore engine where many things can be processed in parallel to save render time.
All of a sudden an api is thread safe and Ms puts a sticker on it and it's the best thing since sliced bread. Amazing. I guess everybody else are just noobs.
I still want to see some games to actually show what the Scorpio can do before I even think about it. All the horse power in the world doesn't mean squat if you have nothing to show for it.
And before some idiot says "did you even read the article, they said it takes a couple of years, etc." yes I did, and I can say with full confidence there's been hardware upgrades in the past where the power was showcased out the gate; so unless MS is holding something for E3 it's marketing and PR talk.
The games reveal will be at E3. Hopefully you get to see some leaks. But I think if you have seen the latest 'Star Wars BF' trailer, that should give you some idea of the base quality for Scorpio.
What Brad is saying is, it will keep getting better and in 2 years we should see the full quality Scorpio can produce as people get used to using all the cores and managing RAM.
"But I think if you have seen the latest 'Star Wars BF' trailer, that should give you some idea of the base quality for Scorpio. "...it was a CG trailer buddy
@fastbastard11
Nope. I know it looks really good and I understand why some might be led to believe that it's CGI, but it was actually all in engine. Similar to the trailers for the last Star Wars Battlefront game, which also looked incredible, but the final game really did look like that. Of course, the actual gameplay didn't have the cinematic camera angles and scripted scenarios, but the graphical quality was essentially the same.
It's not really accurate. PR speak.
12GB (or the 8 the developers have access too) of ram doesn't really do a whole lot. It's one of those things where if you're filling that much ram with a single (current) game, then chances are your CPU is too slow or your memory bandwidth is too low and the extra space isn't going to stop the performance tanking. Computers can justify having 16, but that's mostly to keep background processes eating all the ram and infringing on what the game needs (a number I've never seen exceed 6gb in actual play.) Considering the Scorpio is using what I have to assume is another AMD Jaguar, "too slow" would definitely be the limiting factor in performance.
No matter what MS (Or sony or anyone else) says, teraflops is not a great measure of the performance of a video card, but even using that as the measure you're basically just looking at a very slightly overclocked RX 480, and it's a great card but not really a 4k card. 4k/60 is really rare at that amount of power, and while 4k/30 is certainly possible most games look just as good and run better at 1080p or 1440p/60fps when you're talking about the viewing distances of 8 to 12 feet (normal viewing distances for modern TVs.)
No 1080p/1440p is not just as good as 4K you can stop. That`s just nonsense.
Microsoft has been direct about 4K telling everyone they designed the system around bottlenecks of xbox one and games running at 900p/1080p can be ported to scorpio by the dev to 4K.
There telling you it will have Native 4K with 4K assets games. Native 4K 60 FPS games. I dont know how anyone could deny this at this point we got Brad Wardell,Gears of war,Forza Devs, and Digital Foundry saying this is happening.
The list of relevant people saying this is happening grows day by day.
Well you're wrong about the RAM thing but i agree that 4k doesn't really look better than 1080p at 8-12 feet as I have witnessed it myself.
I didn't say just as good. I said just as good at typical viewing distances for TVs. I have a 4k TV, the only thing that is obviously better at 4k from my 10 foot viewing distance is particle effects.
And yeah, if I have to pick between 1080p or 1440p with all of the settings maxed, and 4k/30 or 4k/60 with settings turned down, the lower resolutions almost always look better. Rendering super low res textures in 4k still makes them super low res textures, and now you get to see exactly how the don't hold up in great detail. Tomb Raider on the PS4 pro should make this quite obvious.
I didn't say it won't have native 4k games, or native 4k/60fps games. I said they'll look and/or run worse than those same games at 1080p or 1440p. I speak from experience, I have a GPU about as powerful as they say the Scorpio is, I know more or less what it's capable of.
Maybe actually read my comments instead of just responding to things I didn't say.
PS: No, I'm not wrong about the RAM thing. Vram has more or less the same issue. If you're playing games at 4k then there are exceptions, but at 1080p and 1440p the difference between 3,4, 6 and 8 GB of vram is basically non-exsistant, nothing ever fills it, and if it *does* fill it then it's because your GPU is too slow to handle the game and it won't run well anyways (which is why Vram does actually make a difference at 4k, but even then last gen AMD 4k cards had between 1 and 4gb of VRAM because they had a super high memory bandwidth and super high clock speeds and no need for a large amount of storage. )
Dude literally said it was just as good...whats to spin here? You are wrong. Dead wrong about saying some bogus nonsense.
super low res textures in 4K? "Tomb Raider on the PS4 pro should make this quite obvious."
Ps4 pro has no improved textures there the same as ps4 horrible comparison.
https://www.youtube.com/wat...
" I said they'll look and/or run worse than those same games at 1080p or 1440p. "
Not according to Turn10
"We provided a ton of data with ForzaTech, where we actually rendered different stress scenes at different resolutions - 720p, 1080p, 4K - and then stressed different points in the engine: anisotropic filtering, multi-sampling, pushing heavy LODs through, just to try to get a feel for where the different bottlenecks where," says Tector.
"This profiling was just one set of data that the Xbox hardware team had to work with. More data was coming in from other titles, and the scaling results in the move to 4K were looking consistent. "All the PIX captures and analysis and simulation they did proved it out for everyone, not just the people who were going to target 4K60, starting from a point at 1080p60 [like Turn 10] but even the people who haven't gotten to that point yet," continues Tector. "They have other reasons that they aren't going for native resolution maybe and so they've made other trade-offs in their engine and they have other bottlenecks than we would. I think it was great that the model hit such a broad set of different rendering types, it really helped prove it out."
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...
There forzatech runs at the same framerate as the Xbox One version in 4K.
Turn10 is owned by MS. By definition, they are not trustworthy when talking about MS hardware/software. Chances are, they're literally not allowed to say anything even slightly critical, possibly not allowed to say anything at all without MS approval.
Also, that article doesn't imply what you claim it does.
Forza *already* does 4k/60fps, but if you bother to check there are *serious* sacrifices necessary to do it, including tricks with the framerate that half the framerate of reflections, and extra super low settings you can't even get on PC. What I'm telling you, is that it would look better if it was running at 1080p or 1440p with higher settings. To run it at 4k, they had to completely decimate shadow quality, it's *way* below 1080p.It would look better at a lower resolution and with that extra power diverted to improving shadow quality, texture filtering, draw distance, ect.
It's also a racing game, and racing games are poor examples that are notorious for looking and running better than anything else could with similar hardware power (probably because you spend the entire time on a super narrow track and blow by everything at 90+mph, meaning the system actually has to render very little by comparison and can skimp on detail (like the crowds and anything more than a few meters off the track)
so let me get this straight, 1080p looked better then 900p for the last 4 years according to every sony fan on here and neogaf but now when the scorpio can do native 4k, now and only now you guys say there is no difference between 1080p and 4k native. you guys are hilarious
@Princess_Pilfer
That's not really accurate. Just because games aren't using 8gb of memory right now doesn't mean they can't or won't use it in the future. Higher quality assets can really benefit from that extra RAM. LOD and pop-in can also be improved since more can be held in memory at any given time and LOD changes don't have to be as aggressive.
It's similar to what we see in modding PC games. More VRAM allows you to use much higher quality assets, which can totally transform the look of a game yet often doesn't incur much of a performance hit.
Scorpio has had a concomitant increase in its bandwidth so that isn't an issue.
With high end PCs, Scorpio and PS4 Pro all in the market more and more developers will start taking advantage of them.
I have 2 980tis, so I have 6 gb of vram as it doesn't stack. If I play Doom and put the texture quality on Nightmare, the game crashes randomly because I run out of Vram. I believe you are referring to normal ram, of which I have 64gb, because why not, and I have seen page files hit 24gb. But yeah, 12gb is too much ...
@bolimekurac
All things being equal, 1080p is superior to 900p, and 4k is superior to both. When we're talking about 4k gaming on anything less than dual 1080tis, all things are not rarely equal. Not only did I not say there is no difference, I outright stated that there *IS* a difference and then described how the differences make 1080p or 1440p look better.
@Starchild
You still have to be able to process that data and get it on screen. In most cases, if you've filled 4+gb of vram your video card is not good enough for whatever you're doing. (and not the game just saying that it's calling all of it, because games will call all of it just because maybe they might need it at some point, and then half of it will just sit there not doing anything.) Your card should be able to get it out of the ram and on screen quickly enough for it to not need to sit there taking up space. If it can't, you get popin and/or stutters no matter how much vram you have. You can look up benchmarks and check. In the vast majority of cases, there is virtually no performance difference between lower and higher vram modles of gpu, and what few you find are almost always at 4k with weak/mid range cards that can't cope anyways, or are mirrors edge catalyst which had the problem fixed with a patch.
No, they won't. At least, not any more than they are already. It's a requirement of both the Scorpio and PS4 pro that all the games run on the old consoles, so they kinda can't. Also, they could have been doing the same thing for PC games this whole time, and haven't been, because they're targeting the lowest end hardware on the market to maximise potential buyers.
Again, it's the speed of the CPU itself. It's still a Jaguar as far as we know, and Jaguars are still garbage. A slightly better Jaguar is still a Jaguar, and it's still going to result in CPU bottle necks.
Just FYI. The PS4 has 5GB available, Pro 5.5GB. And a new compression format to offset size and bandwidth short comings.
The 8GB probably won't all be filled with uncompressed textures else most of that bandwidth will be used shuffling those around. But it sure is great to have headroom. Also, it can be used for caching,, level streaming and all that. And of course more higher res render targets. It sure is an advantage. At the same time, the size might just have been a side-effect to reach the higher bandwidth. I'm still curious about the pricing, tbh.
Lol, meanwhile honestly Sony will keep winning NPDs, taking names, and make MS into a steam integrated service for all platforms even themselves.
Think that'll hold true with a one to one comparison involving Scorpio and PS4 Pro?
Xbox One S will still be on the market.
The funny part being Microsoft is creating their own ecosystem yet it's somehow a completely terrible thing. I actually like the more integrated outlook and the fact they're taking steps to actually deliver it.
I think so, because developers will need to fully utilize something, no matter how easy something is.
Developers will be able to fully utilize Scorpio easier then downgrading for the other products rather than starting at the lowest and going up. Plus the fact Scorpio offers developers more resources out there than any console means less concessions, in particular for developers working on PC then going to console.
Based on what we've seen as well turnaround time for older titles is faster than what's out there now. With such little turnaround time it makes the most sense all around.
Making it easier makes utilizing it easier as well.
Nope I'm saying that Sony already has things established and Xbox going the path of Steam even their own Xbox machines is not bad.
What do you mean path of Steam? I've heard this said before and there really isn't any evidence to support the claim.
"What do you mean path of Steam? I've heard this said before and there really isn't any evidence to support the claim. "
You haven't seen the new crystal balls they guys carry around, much clear than the one's from the 70's. These guys can see all kinds of baseless, imaginary stuff. Who needs evidence, when crystal balls show you everything you mind wants you to see?
I mean Steam boxes and having other companies developing other piece of plastic.
@XiNatsuDragnel
Even if they let other hardware vendors make Xbox....why would it necessarily be a bad thing. This isn't Trip Hawkins in 1994 this is Microsoft we're talking about.
Understand that Microsoft probably make more profits by teaming up with companies to make a categories of Xbox boxes that match every individual consumers' needs and wants.
The haters are hoping and praying Microsoft quits the XBox brand. They don't like competition it seems. If Nintendo and Microsoft got out of the gaming business, Sony would completely monopolize the market with proprietary everything.
Right now it looks to me like Scorpio is hot enough to easily sell 4 to 5 mil consoles this holiday season, in the U.S alone at the $400 to $500 price point. That is more than enough along with X1-s sales to take over lead in the US. The numbers in the U.S/Canada are not reflective of those in other parts of the world
@XiNatsuDragnel...
let me know when sony wins 35+ NPD's straight.. then maybe...just maybe, someone will be impressed..
lol!! No. Didn't they loose NPD 4 months in a row last year? You haters need to get a life. STEAM will end up on Scorpio. lol!!
the 900p & 1080p games that are 60fps on XB1 will remain at 60fps on Scorpio but run at native-4K. so the 60fps AAA games like Battlefront, COD, Halo, Titanfall etc. will be 4K60. so I guess Sony fans can keep downplaying Scorpio & telling themselves that if it makes themselves feel better. lol smh
I guarantee you if PS4 PRO is only doing 1440p/60 fps for Titanfall 2 there isn't a chance in the world Scorpio is doing native 4k/60 fps unless visual settings are drastically toned down.It takes twice the power to do that yet Scorpio is only 43% more powerful.
something tells me that @fatbastard doesn't understand how this all works..
that 43% is more than what's playing out in your mind...lets stray away from FLOPS and numbers for a quick sec...
Microsoft being the mega software company that they are developed the PIX tool (no other company in the world has this because it's built and used by microsoft... they have taken every single engine and game out on the One now and have put each through 30K simulations to stress test the engines and find all bottle necks...
Then code their API's to account for all bottle necks (which is stressed OG Xbox One - PC...)
if you were to add PIX Tool into the situation this gives Scorpio a even bigger advantage...
I don't really care. If it's in the quality of HZD, the more the merrier. Bring it...and watch E3 ;)
Not true if PS4 Pro/PS4/XboxOne holds back the complexity of the game, Scorpio could have enough brute force processing to push the frame rate close to 60fps.
Although I think you're just saying that to downplay Scorpio I agree that most games will still be 30fps. Games designed to target 60fps on the base Xbox One will likely be 60fps on Scorpio, while some 30fps games may attempt the jump to 60fps on Scorpio but I wouldn't expect the majority to.
Sadsatan: that's only true for online games. Single player games don't need to have FPS to match X1 games.
The thing I don't get about modern gaming is the free-falling loop increasing complexity and pushing technical limits, yet needing to compromise and get out a project asap.
Even devs and studios who can keep often mess up big time. Especially because of publisher pressure.
Nonsense, more RAM doesn't mean there aren't any technical limits, that IS a fact.
Also a fact is that Scorpio will not have exclusives so the extra RAM can't be used for anything else than better visuals due to the rest of the current gen consoles....
What is scorpio limited to get to 4K? It will allow devs to put there games to 4K. There is no technical limit stopping devs to putting there games there making right now in 4K. Thats what Wardell was talking about.
Lol at you saying " the extra RAM can't be used for anything else than better visuals " . You say that like its some small thing.
What I believe Aenea is saying is that Scorpio only has 12 gigs of ram. It's not limitless. 2, you can only use 8 gigs as the rest is used for something else like OS.
Xbox fans are not seeing the reality. Scorpio will improve game engines from Xbox one to Scorpio because most games on Xbox one are performing at 900p. If a refresh can't make that better almost 2 years later, then that would be a serious problem.
But Scorpio is held back by the fact that it has to play the same games as Xbox one. If there are any exclusives to it, then that's a shaft against the Xbox one fan. But Xbox one fans are going to be shafted when it comes to VR. So i guess it really doesn't matter to them anyway. Since Microsoft doesn't care.
he's a game developer bro he knows everything.Naa i am just kidding,he just dick rides Sony 247,even though they don't give two shits about his existence,it's sad really...the life of slave.
Lets wait a bit there Apocalypse Shadow before we say anyones getting the shaft here ok. I dont think currently Microsoft is trying to play anyone who is interested in scorpio.
The scorpio as it stands is bringing the PC environment to console. I dont see any negatives in that.
Its actually one of the most promising events currently this year. Just a month ago people were saying this stuff wasnt possible on N4G and now its a reality.
Future looks great.
No, that's not what he said, he said "12GB of GDDR5 memory means (for some years) no real technical limit on games.", he didn't say he meant it to be for reaching 4k, he said it in a generic way which is nonsense.
Are you telling me that any idea one can come up with can be done on Scorpio simply because it has 12GB of RAM? Nope, you can't, that's nonsense! There are many limits to ANY machine, that's a fact!
Not sure why you and all the other disagreeing people can't seem to understand such a simple concept.
---------------
@SirJoJo
Okay, what if a designer comes up with a game that needs extensive physics and AI and those can be done on Scorpio but not on X1, what will they do?
Dumb it down so it can work on the X1 as well or basically make two very different playing games?
@SirJoJo
Great comment. I was going to say the same thing. Aenea is right in the first part of her comment that ALL hardware has limits. But this idea that the base PS4 and XB1 are some kind of massive limiting factor for the more powerful platforms is pure bunk. The gulf in power between them simply isn't enough to pose any real issues.
Basically all aspects of a game's visuals are scalable, whether we're talking about textures, LOD swaps, geometry, shadow quality, draw distance, effects or what have you. All of it is scalable. Even things like physics and the number of elements reacting to those calculations is all scalable.
Now, if the gulf in hardware performance is very large you might start running into game design issues whereby it actually starts to affect the way the game will be played in significant ways. But between the XB1, PS4, PS4 Pro and Scorpio? Not even close. Anything that can run on one can run on the others after the right adjustments are made. It can take some extra work, more or less, depending on a variety of factors, but it's not any real issue. In fact, I don't think I've seen a single game this generation that couldn't be made to work even on last gen consoles. It would take more effort, for sure, but it could be done. Between Xbox One and Scorpio though, there's no issue. Devs are already doing the same thing making their games scalable for low and high end PCs.
Scorpio first vs Pro first is just such another marketing bubble from MS. Games are written in whatever environment anyhow. Nobody really wants to deal with the XB1 and it's SDRam. If the tools can take this complexity away, the better. But it's most likely already developed for a unified platform before and than scaled to the target. New is, that, MS now has a common Dx12 target and hopefully a simple option to make those games reasonably playable on the XB1 without much hands on opt. Read the Housemarque's development blog to get Resounding 4k@60fps on to the Pro. Not really a very different viewpoint, really
Let me help you make sense of what will happen.
Developer A masters all their assets in 4K/HDR.
Scorpio gets 4k/HDR/60.
Xbo gets 900p/30/pc equivalent of low to medium effects.
Because VR will only work on Scorpio there will be certain games that only work on a Scorpio
Scorpio won't be held back because of Xbox One. All developers will need to do is master everything at 4k and then downgrade or scar down the quality accordingly. This has been happening in PC for ages.
People keep thinking that "holding back" is only for visuals, understand that there are many other things that power can be used for than just graphics. When you understand that you will understand how the X1 will hold back games on Scorpio...
@Aenea
Can you give an example of a current gen game with physics and/or AI so clever or advanced that it would be impossible to scale it to less powerful hardware? Because I haven't seen any.
You also are not considering that AI and physics typically hit the CPU more than anything and XB1, PS4, PS4 Pro and Scorpio all have fairly similar CPUs. Not identical but similar enough that they wouldn't likely be doing radically different AI routines or physics systems anyway. It's not like games are really pushing boundaries in those areas currently.
If it was only that simple. Even on PC there are very few 4K textures in games that run at 4K. Rainbow six six just recently received 1440 textures, not 4K. Resolution and texture resolution are very different. I play many games at 1440p on my gtx 1080 and the texture resolution does not change.
@starchild
Ahhh, you have seen the source code for all the current gen games, have you?
It's silly to think that differences between generations is just graphics.
And yes, many multiplat games use the CPU for physics and AI and give the idea that the CPU is the bottleneck when it doesn't need to be. They can do physics and AI on the GPU but doing so makes that part of the game specific for a platform so they have to do it for more than one which multiplats generally don't tend to do...
In any case, no matter how you look at things, saying that Scorpio having 12GB of RAM means there are no technical limitations for games is bonkers, every piece of hardware has limits.
And the scorpio will be held back by the xbox one. We've already seen BF1 on the ps4 pro get downgraded (framerate advantage in multiplayer).
Just stick with the ps4
that Sony mandate present in multiplayer for parity isn't present for scorpio from what I have read
It didn't. Both run 60fps, and the Pro is much more stable at a much higher res. I have the game on the XB1 and the Pro. It's significantly better on Pro
6 months back there was a big crowd saying that scorpio is non existent and its all PR talk. Less than 3 months back the same crowd said its only on paper and scorpio is not what people think. Now the crowd is talking about a system which is not existing on paper, PR or anywhere but drooling for PS5 which is 2 yrs down the line and that two yrs is a plain guess.
Talk about that 180.
Nice , so safe to assume that in two years Scorpio will have games that fully utilize its full specs . Cool
" Dev: Scorpio's 12GB RAM Means No Real Technical Limit "
What does your budget look like?with a competitor already having the largest chunk of the market is there a budget specifically to push this hardware?.They're not even doing this with PS4 Pro (especially third-party).
Because with the pro, when they try and push up the resolution with the textures to support it, the CPU just can't keep up. So the frame rate suffers. Pro needed a better CPU at least, but quite a few other things to play most games in the 4K realm. I think Sony wasn't thinking full 4K support as much as they were thinking a better experience for PSVR. They figure Checkerboard was going to be enough to satisfy the few who invested in a 4K TV.
M$ on the other had is an American company, and see the adaption of 4K at a much faster rate. So it was natual for them to focus on get to that as a standard to satisfy a much faster growing dynamic in the U.S and Canada.
Yes they do Aenea, the impact isn't as much as other components but saying cpu has no direct link to fps is completely false
Depends on whether the game is CPU or GPU bound when attempting to reach a given framerate.
The current consoles often are CPU bound when trying to reach 60fps, but it really does depend on the game and what it's doing and how it's designed.
And the company which actually sells 4k TVs doesn't see that trend, right? Pro is all about time to market and low cost. MS pretty much had no choice but to reinvent. The XBO just was impossible to scale.
There hasn't ever been a game which did things on the CPU that couldn't have been done on the GPU instead to remove framerate bottlenecks...
As I've said before the reason games can cause framerate issues is due to overuse of the CPU for things that can easily be done on the GPU and thus removing any bottleneck. The only reason why multiplat devs don't do this is because implementing that code for the GPU is non-portable between platforms while doing on CPU it is...
This is actually one of the reasons first party titles can perform better...
So, if code written for CPU's which could've been done on GPU's is it the fault of the weak CPU or of the dev. not optimising it so it could've run parts of the code on the GPU?
Hint: it's not the CPU's fault, therefor bad framerate has nothing to do with the CPU........
That's not what i'm saying lol (those dislikes).I'm talking about how they will support a platform when
the number:1 console is selling better.This is not the first time developers praised a system and then end up
not supporting it because it didn't sell well.Hence why I bring up budgets.
Sony and Microsoft are conglomerates,multinationals.
If a developer is targeting a PC release then they are more than likely mastering their game in true 4K. MS have made scorpio incredibly easy to port games to at their best visual fidelity. It doesn't matter if PS4 has the market share, as long as devs are looking at PC then most of the work is already done for Scorpio.
If Sony decides to release the PS5 in 2020, would MS counter this with a mid-gen Scorpio+ in the same year or year after?
No MS have stated multiple times they are done with generational hardware. So imagine like a new phone. Better OS, better hardware same huge library of games.
Have that much gap allows for devs to be extremely lazy. Don't believe me? Look at PC games compared to PS4 games, the two shouldn't look as close as they do, but they do because resources are wasted on PC because devs don't have to care about memory HDD/RAM/CPU they don't have to care, they just do the craziest crap and say, hey YOU HAVE TO UPGRADE, even then it's not optimized.
Sometimes it's done right, GTA 5 on PC absolutely destroys the console version in every way.
Yes, sometimes it's done right, agreed. However, not many devs are like Rockstar for example look at most of EA catalogue or Activision. If you played PS4 Pro games beside a PC playing MAXED out the differences between the two is like ehh that's it? To have all of that tech not being utilized when you're playing on MAX is messed up to those that spend thousands on a gaming rig. Yes the games will look "prettier" but based on the specs they should be destroying consoles especially when you're spending 5-8 times more for you rig than i am for my console.
@C-H-E-F
Actually most games on PC are a significant upgrade over their console counterparts. They are upgraded as much as they should be, considering that there also has to be power left over to run at much higher framerates and resolutions. You can't just make a game that runs at 30fps and 1080p on the highest end PCs when maxed out. Not enough people could play it and nobody would be getting the balance of graphics and framerate that they desired.
It's always funny to me how news about a new console can get one camp so worked up, people really need to dial back the sensitivity on the internet
Sweet so games are coming for Xbox in 2 years that are may be looking than Infamous Second Son, Uncharted 4 and Ratchet and Clank, finally. Notice how I didn't say better looking than Horizon, Detroit Become Human, God of War, Spiderman, Day's Gone or The Last of Us Part II.
So is that power really going to be utilised at all or will we just leave that to the PlayStation 1st/2nd Party Studios like every generation?
Still promoting ps games in an xb article like some jealous ex girlfriend even when nobody cares about them in relation to the topic apart from insecure people
Ryse, Quantum Break, Rise of the Tomb Raider and Gears of War 4 were pretty impressive looking games considering the power of the XB1. If they do the same thing with games relative to the power of Scorpio they will look plenty good.
Scorpio to me is like a dream come true. Everything I could ever want in a gaming console is right here. I already have the fantastic Pro. Very fine complete console. Well made also. But Scorpio is logically the next step for me. Being it that I chose not to buy an X1 or S this gen. I'll be able to play many of their old games as well as New games on the New Scorpio. I can't wait for this one. I'll be there at launch. Thing needs to hurry up and drop..
It's really never going to shine as they have to make games compatible to the Xbox One. Maybe they will fuck Xbox One owners and release exclusive games on the Scorpio and PC about 2 years from now.
No, they'll just make games for PC, Scorpio and PS4 Pro that blow minds, and then make sure they scale down for the PS4 and XB1.
Yeah, Sony has the best talent in the bussiness when it comes to game development.So far, MS list of games are uninteresting to me. I'll wait til E3 to see what MS has to offer.
Does it even matter anymore. Every Sony person will just downplay them anyway. If you cant find enough games to play with over 1000+ titles then you have problems.
Bracing myself for the influx of n4g commenters who know better than devs and digital foundry.
I think MS is vastly underestimating developers and how they find new ways to utilise hardware. I reckon less than 2 years.
Seeing as these specs and hardware are not anything new due to rapid growth of the PC market, there will be developers out there ready to develop titles using the consoles full potential.
Ps5 vs x2 will be mute.. They both will be true 4k at 60 with all games period... I honestly feel like these mid gen refreshs was a one time deal.. So with that said, xbox is the more powerful console then they should let it be known.. Fact is its a fanboy thing. This gen is over sony is king exclusives & 2nd/3rd party support will keep it there... Fanboy argument sony has better exclusives their right, fanboy argument ms has the most powerful console their right... Other words the world is flat, no wonder my tv is to. Where do the switch fit, ahh the world is round no wonder why i get tunnel vision.. Tf am i talking about...
The bottleneck never was the ram this gen, but the crap jag cpu. No matter how much overclocked they are. Last gen with 512 mb, that was a real bottleneck. This gen no studio talked about the ram, but the cpu that was another story. They got huge problems to reach 30 frames locked except on racers because they arent so demanding.
Sounds like a paid pr statement. Ultra settings on pc find ways of using more resources. 12 gb ram total is a good number, but it won't be really that hard to use it if they strive for 4k at high settings.
Maybe years to ultiize 12 gigs of RAM but I bet Scorpio power will be maxed in about 3-6 months. Just look at the Pro, it's not even out for 6 months and already it can't run Horizon at 60 FPS.
GG also admitted that if they'd designed the game with the Pro in mind, that they'd have been able to get more out of it.
Someone inform this guy that RAM is not the limitation of GPU power. It will take one second to realize that you aren't going to run Witcher 3 at 4k/60fps on Scorpio, let alone a power hungry game like GR: Wildlands. My 1080TI OC'd to 1950 barely maxes that game out at 1440p/60fps, and while it does run Witcher 3 at 4k/60fps, there are rare dips into the 50s. So, when someone says it will take such and such to "fully utilize it's power", that is pure bs. There's already scenarios at 1440p and 4k that the Scorpio with it's 6-7 Tflops of power would spontaneously combust trying to power through. The 1080Ti provides over 14 Tflops of compute power when fully OC'd and IT doesn't even play everything at max/4k/60fps, and make no mistake THAT is the goal, either that or 1440p/144hz.
Maybe it will be able to do 4k/30fps well (terrible slideshow...) but even then it wouldn't be able to run Wildlands at PC Ultra 4k/30fps. Just not enough raw power. Will it be a good system for a console? Sure. But, please stop this "It's powerful enough to run anything" bs. It's simply not true.
Memory is the cheapest piece of hardware to upgrade. You can easily afford way more than you will ever use. No game will ever come close to consuming 12GB of ram unless it has a horrible memory leak, like Batman: AK.
Somebody ought to remind this guy that games are going to have to run on xbox one and ps4 also....it's not like devs are going to be producing Scorpio exclusive games.....so I'm not sure what he's bleating on about.
The best feeling will be when I go to pick Scorpio up from gamestop launch day..
Also as far as unveiling the next gen Sony will hold out for M$ to do it in my opinion. They of course will have their console made, but they can wait and milk all the sales until M $ plays the card. M $ is testing market and going to unveil next gen soon as the scorpio is classified as a premium version of the one only for 4k tvs really. By soon not as soon as you think, but theyre going to be first to play their cards.
Based on the comments it looks like the my consoles better then your console kids are going at it again.
Wait wait wait... so now a certain group of fanboys are saying they would rather play games on lower resolutions?
This is ridiculous and hypocritical. It's hypodiculous.
So many microsoft PR employee's in here right now, I had to sign into Windows again just to write this.
they should be trying to promote xbox one first then offer promotions for an upgrade thats not a nessesity but rather an option for those who want better visuals. it seems to me its the otherway round
I don't get it. Doesn't it normally take developers 2 years or so to fully utilize a console's power?
Remember that the console has to use the 12GB for more than just graphics. It has to run the simulation and the background tasks with that memory. Many comments seem to be forgetting this.
Sony just need to announce the PS5 for a 2019 release... That way all the FB can talk about a upcoming (not as yet available) console and how powerful it is for the next 2 years until its release.
this console is going to be very expensive, and in that price range you might aswell buy a pc
there already giving all exclusives to pc so it is like ms is trying to phase out the xbox in favour of pc
"It'll Take 2 Years To Fully Utilize Its Power" so thats when the scorpio will eventually get great exclusives?
all the PS5 talk is just Sony fans' insecurity showing. i can't wait to see the N4G comments section after E3.
@ power of Black: Phil Spencer only took over a couple years ago.
E3 2015 backward compatibility.
E3 2016 Xbox One S & Scorpio announcement
all there's left to talk about is to show Scorpio & announce games. so lets see what he does.
Yeah but the xbox one will cripple the capabilities of the scorpio since they'll be making games compatible across both... Which means they'll be similar in gameplay & only look better on the scorpio.
"as Direct X12 is touted as a game changer for Xbox One in next-gen console war against Playstation 4"
Touted by who? The author should have stated who exactly is making those claims.
So basically nothing. iirc another dev has said the same things about mantle.
Why would people think it's development related(well expect if you're Mr.x believer) when Phil said "will unlock more capability for devs".
Of course development will likely be same when quite a few of these features are already on XB1 and it being a console for an update bringing "console-efficiency" to other platforms.
The SDK updates will do more in terms of increasing the graphical fidelity and parity with most multiplats. 10% of GPU reserved is quite a bit, and we still don't have raw numbers for what that translate into. DX12 will help more with CPU multithreading but even more so with porting and development of DX12 games. That last part is probably the biggest thing that will help the XB1.
IMO wouldn't better performance be indicative of faster and better development!? IMO I don't see you having one without the other! This is the purpose of updated API tools, too become more cost effective and less time consuming.
I like that Phil addressed the situation. The Xb1 isn't the strongest console and that's fine. I personally game for the excellent stories and the ride. I'm not really huge on graphics as long as the game doesn't look like complete crap. Good job phil. We don't need any more hype men clouding what's real.