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Submitted by yarbie1000 225d ago | videocast

Does Xbox One have Secret Sauce in it? DirectX 12 a Game Changer?

Microsoft has announced that for the first time in five years, a new DirectX 12 is about to be unveiled at GDC on March 20th 2014. It's been suggested that the Xbox One would not work with DirectX12 because it would require a hardware upgrade since the XB1 is running DirectX 11. But new developments suggest that the Xbox One may in fact be using DirectX 12 in some fashion. (Microsoft, Xbox One)

Update Phil Spencer was just asked if this DX12 rumor would improve resolutions. He responded with, stay tuned for GDC

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lifeisgamesok  +   225d ago
To my knowledge Microsoft has never came out and stated the specs of its gpu

It was only rumored to be the equivalent of a 7000 series

MS hasn't elaborated on the 15 co-processors enough though we know what they are 9 audio, encode and decode compressors 4 move engines that can shoot bits of data at a high speed
#1 (Edited 225d ago ) | Agree(63) | Disagree(75) | Report | Reply
Kingthrash360  +   225d ago
smh....man see this is why sony fanboys talk about the res differance...things like this.
x1 and ps4 have both launched, have both been taken apart we know what hardware is in there and we know who has the most power of the 2.
no, this comment isnt a who's the "BEST" comment...but really guys wth is dx gunna do for the x1.
i'm not saying it wont do anything but dx12 is more of a pc thing no? and its software, so what will it do. make things easier? that coo but when on one hand you say "res dosent matter" then get all hyped about a "secret sauce".like its supposed to change what the x1 is made out of, of like its gunna "unlock" some secret area in the console to make it up to its competitors standard.
how's that good business? why release a weaker console, then let it become stronger later with a secret sauce? yeah they rushed it, we knew that back in june but you cant change the hardware...we all know that esram bottleneck is whats holding x1 back and dx12 (sadly) wont change that.

truth is ms released a weaker console, with a more media aimed goal than gaming. it looks good on paper but when it dosent sale as projected, things start to get overhyped...even the small things like a software update.

pro tip: nothing wrong with a weaker console...my honest opinion...but if your weaker imbrace it and put out some awsometitles like nintendo...
it just goes bad when you say "the x1 is the most powerful console" or announce an announcement and when you announce it you say "we bought gears, and we have unannounced titles in the works"
that kinda pissed me off because i woke up early in the morning to see what it was and it was a longtime (dying...play judment) franchise and "UNANNOUNCED GAMES IN THE WORKS".... they announced unannounced games.....-.- over hypeing the obvious things...
not sating gears is small but nobody thought gears would end up anywhere but on x1...
if you gunna announce something let it be you bought mario or somethin...smh man rant over...mabad guys
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Dudebro90  +   225d ago | Well said
Direct x is not a "PC thing"

Its called an Xbox...where the x stands for...direct x.
SliceOfTruth888  +   225d ago
The problem is that anyone who thinks xbone xants handle 1080p is a fool. There is some issue developers are having converting last Gen to next Gen. Once developers fully understand they will push some incredible stuff. Just like ps4 will I mean how ignorant can anyone be thinking Xbox or ps4 is even close to showing their power
cozomel  +   225d ago | Well said
Man, you fanboys never learn. Always getting your hopes up just to be let down, i guess y'all are used to being let down by MS and the X1. DX is just a generic API and what would be preferred is a API built specifically for the system, not a broad generic API like DX. Its been a known fact in the PC world that DX loses you alot of graphics cards performance. Hence why AMD made Mantle and Valve SteamOS and NV CUDA. Tell me, the X1 uses DX11 right now and how impressive has that been so far? The Ps4 and X1 are almost the same exact system except for some difference, that are all where it matters the most, in the GPU and bandwidth department

Xb1: 1.18TF (12 CUs) for games
Xb1: 768 Shaders
Xb1: 48 Texture units
Xb1: 16 ROPS
Xb1: 2 ACE/16 queues
Xb1: 13.65GPixels/s
Xb1: 40.90GTexels/s

PS4: 1.84TF GPU (18 CUs) for games +56% more
PS4: 1152 Shaders +50.5%
PS4: 72 Texture units +50%
PS4: 32 ROPS + 100%
PS4: 8 ACE/64 queues 400%
PS4: 25.60GPixels/s +88%
PS4: 57.60GTexels/s +40%
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Jumper09  +   225d ago
RAM, ESRAM and the GPU is holding the Xbone back.

@SliceOfTruth888
There is nothing to understand. The Console is weaker, period.
You Xbone Fans have to accept that already. it wont get better later down the Generation
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nightsurge  +   225d ago
@cozomel

The Xbox One gpu reserved for games is now 1.29 teraflops. 8% was freed up recently in an update. Just making sure you had all your facts straight since it seemed like you were just copy/pasting old specs.
xActionBasturdx  +   225d ago
Why do people constantly copy and paste specs without the slightest idea what they mean...i own a ps4 but everytime i see someone copy and paste specs i cringe a little everytime
GameNameFame  +   225d ago
Wow. Don't fanboys understand DirecX is just is just drivers?

I mean really every new processing feature on dx12 will be on OpenGL and PS4.

Dx11 stuff are already on opengl and people say it is even more powerful due to efficiency.

Lolol. It is just pure desperation of wanting their hardware be stronger.
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TheGreatAndPowerful  +   225d ago
"Unless MS planned ahead and got DX12 functionality in the GPU of the XB1, that'd mean that DX12 would purely be a software upgrade and wouldn't necessitate new hardware.
Either that or it's a half-truth and the XB1 will only support certain parts of DX12 like how Windows 7 supports about half the new features in DX11.2"
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gam...
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kopicha  +   224d ago
xbots are really funny. when games announced running lower res or fps they say it dont matter. its the games that matter. and even making claims of 720 actually look better than 1080. and all those res n fps dont matter because its the game that matters. now in this article the bots are here to rejoice over the "secret sauce" that all just assume it is going to change anything. seriously dont be such a loser. keep to your words and stay in your stance. you dont even know what you actually want. it seems like xbots and m$ are just a bunch of 180s
MysticStrummer  +   224d ago
(Before PS4 and XB1 are revealed)

XB fan - "Sony can't afford to make a more powerful console than MS"

(PS4 and XB1 are revealed)

XB fan - "Secret sauce"

(PS4 and XB1 specs are revealed)

XB fan - "Cloud"

(First PS4 and XB1 games are released)

XB fan - "Can't tell the difference"

(DirectX 12 announced for XB1)

XB fan - "Secret sauce"
_______

I sense a pattern...
Unspoken  +   224d ago
The spec war is over. Both consoles are sub par gaming machines and no magic will change that fact.

But what can be done is to improve what is already existing. Microsoft is taking advantage of their PC expertise and improving the console in other ways....how about we overclock? Check. New API for better game engines and improved performance? Check. Consistent updates to the OS and user interface, graphic filters, controller firmware? Checks across the board.

To me it appears as though even with the less powerful console, MS is doing what it can to extract the best performance out of it.
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Wizard_King  +   224d ago
I love this secret sauce BS fro MS so much.

How people actually believe them is what gets me.

So many dumb ignorant people.
snp  +   224d ago
@nightsurge

True, but on the flip side he also didn't 'deduct' anything from either the kinect/non kinect scenario's.

If Kinect is in use, actually take off 10% from the GPU specs, and even when it's not in use 2% needs to be deducted from the XBox1 GPU specs - and consequently be added to the '% margin' on the PS4 side.
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B-radical  +   225d ago
X1 gpu specs were announced at hotchips. But thats not to say directx 12 wasnt made for x1.

im begining to think x1 was suppose to be released this year. And that it was initially was suppose to be directx 12 but api wasnt ready.

expect to hear talk at gdc about data move engines
Alan_Shore  +   225d ago
Very plausible.....I guess. Maybe directx 12 wasn't ready ps4 was releasing MS felt heat so they released early.

MS must make it clear at the game developers conference if DX12 on xbox one is merely an update or if xbox one was made for DX12
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SonofGod  +   225d ago
Be careful with what you're saying here.. logic will not be tolerated here on N4G.

Sony is god
cozomel  +   225d ago | Well said
^^^

Says the worshipper of all things MS. And funny how a supposed Sony website, wink, wink, has way more agrees for the xbox fanboys comments than the Sony ones. Hmm, what are the Sony fanboys agreeing with this? i dont think so, this place is just as infested and crawling with MS fanboys as it is with Sony ones
lsujester  +   225d ago
I'm guessing that the X1 is compliant with DX12, but DX12 isn't really loaded with a bunch of new features. I imagine it's mainly reworked to allow developers to have more access to hardware and reduce CPU overhead. MS's press release pretty much says that.

If I had to guess, I'd say DX12 is going to look a lot like Mantle in what it's trying to do. Find out soon enough.
BX81  +   225d ago
Agreed. That would also explain why some of last gens ui features were missing.
vulcanproject  +   225d ago
DirectX 12 may improve some tools for Xbox One. However typical gains in this area are on the level of single digit percentages.

It will not and can't suddenly make the console massively faster.

DirectX 12 may have new hardware requirements. Xbox One is highly unlikely to meet any new hardware requirements as the main APU design was completed (and fixed) well over a year ago.

In that case Xbox One may support just a smaller subset of DirectX 12 features, and only new hardware would support the full set of features.

If DX12 does not require new hardware, then it will clearly be an evolutionary software development not a revolutionary secret sauce.

I must point people to Xbox 360 and DirectX 10.

DirectX 10 launched with Vista, one year after Xbox 360.

What difference did it directly make to Xbox 360?

Pretty much nothing. The reason was because DirectX 10 was much more relevant for PC and it's new features demanded new hardware compliance the old console never had.

So Xbox 360 supported DirectX 9.5 so to speak, more advanced than DX9c and SM3.0, but short of all the vital features DX10 brought to the table in new hardware.

I can't see a reason why this release will be any different. Xbox One may incorporate some features to update it's API and toolset.

As I said the other day however, every console does this. Every console evolves over it's lifespan as the tools and operating system are refined.
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StrangerX  +   225d ago
@Isujester,
well its not about the software specific features of the Xbox One but mainly about the hardware specifics to be able, to run these features at optimized drivers potential. that's I'm pretty sure is what the DirectX 12 for Xbox one is mainly about. I'm pretty sure that this system was design to be released this year with all bells and whistles but Sony did pushed their hand. Guess we'll know coming this 20th is about.
@Vulcan project
Now that you mention this, if you think about it, wasn't it strange that microsoft went in a different direction when customizing the Xbox one that even developer and the media cant understand why some things are there and why go all that way and spend all that money when they could just go and do like Sony did by just buying mostly off the shelf parts instead of doing this weird architecture that its hard to understand?!! I don't know, maybe its because it was solely design to be mostly hardware specific to be used with DirectX and like I said earlier Sony pushed their hand into releasing early?!!! Think about it, it makes sense but like I said, we'll find out soon enough. 😊
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Kleptic  +   225d ago
This entire debate is riddled with arguments over definitions...

DirectX IS a PC thing...its a high level API for communication between specific software and all different kinds of hardware...thats why its needed, its the standard with windows that allows certain software to work on a bunch of different computers...

in terms of consoles...it doesn't matter to any degree what you call the API...because it is NOT the same as the PC API for one specific reason...the console always has the same hardware...in this case, there is a much better 'low level' api to begin with...and that is very easy because every xbox one has the exact same parts...

directx 12's major feature is slated to be a 'mantle like' optimization that allows much less of a resource barrier...meaning its hopefully going to be far more efficient...but that is specific to PC...the xbox one already has about as efficient an API as possible...it was developed with AMD and MS specfically for the console...minor improvements may show up here and there, and devs will get more out of it over time...

but...you're kidding yourself if you think DX12 is going to 'add' anything to an xbox one...it doesn't need it to begin with...
DoubleM70  +   225d ago
Agreed. Sony had a 10 month jump on thier drivers. Now XB1 drivers are starting to mature. D12x was always in the equation it wasnt ready.
Ju  +   224d ago
There is one thing in Dx which is long overdue and that is better multi threading support - exactly what Mantle brings to the table. Sure, the XO will benefit from this since it's a highly parallel machine. It won't make anything faster, but it sure will help the console - and PCs with multiple cores. I guess that's really all this is. Fixes, updates, newer multi-threaded API(s) but hardly new (graphics) features. Multithreding is the most important feature; everything else you can do if/when having lowest possible access to HW. But if your drawcalls are queued sequentially you loose quite some efficiency on accessing it. XO does not allow any access to the GPU other than DirectX - there is not other API.
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vulcanproject  +   224d ago
Stranger X

Microsoft's design is no more custom than Sony's. Their GPU architecture is still based on something that is two years old, with some interesting modifications but not fundamental ones to their functionality.

Anyone would think that DX12 is supposed to unlock this enormous potential not seen under DirectX 11.2.

I hardly think Microsoft launched a machine with a toolset that couldn't access a vast amount of the console's performance. Indeed if that were the case I am pretty sure you would know about it by now because developers, publishers and Microsoft themselves would be hollering about it.

Instead they are cutting their prices and letting their killer title launch with 1408 x 792 resolution....

It's stretching that notion of hidden power to unlock to breaking point, I'm sorry.

This is going to be an updated toolset for the console, nothing more, nothing less. Feel free to hope for some sort of game changing performance hike and incredible power that they have kept in the closet even for their key games.

But I wouldn't hold your breath that's for sure.

It's no surprise we see the performance gap we do between two consoles where one has an obvious hardware advantage. If that gap didn't exist then the more powerful console would be badly underperforming.
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lolCHILLbro  +   225d ago
Besides Resolution, is there anything else that PS4 far exceeds the Xbox in?
Chevalier  +   225d ago | Well said
Only better 1st party games, 3rd party support, Indie support and Plus has fantastic games, you know reasons to buy a GAME system.
AndrewLB  +   225d ago
Chevalier- Please stop confusing your hopes and aspirations with the facts. Right now Xbone has a far superior selection of games. Regardless, i'm not buying either console because both are underpowered and i'd rather spend the cash on a second gtx 680 which would result in about 7tflops.
alexkoepp   225d ago | Trolling | show
OsirisBlack  +   225d ago
@andrew are people seriously saying there are no games on these systems? I guess indie and F2P games don't count because at the moment I have more games than I can play on PS4 ..... I am however getting pissed at my Wii U as I only play DKCTF now...... and am waiting on something to buy on my XB1..... I was getting Titan Fall on PC but will probably get it on X1 just because of my friends that will be playing on XBL
cozomel  +   225d ago | Well said
Yes, it often has better graphical effects too. Rivals has boken DOF and hbao, x1 doesnt (simple blur and ssao). Thief has POM, x1 doesnt. And that a next gen feature. TR has better texture quality and host of other things that are better. AC4 has better AA and the list goes on. But i know it was rhetorical question and a fanboy like you is just going to disagree.

And X1 only has 2 more exclusives than PS4 right now. Two, a whole freaking whopping two!!! Yet the PS4 has more games (and better) than the X1. X1 fanboys are so delusional its sad.
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BOLO  +   225d ago
You're right...How is it possible to beat secret sauce, overcasted weather, and reversed DRM policies...PS4 doomed confirmed! /s...DAT SAUCE! http://i.imgur.com/XK7wSYU....
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Gamingskills  +   225d ago
@ cozomel
Don't be a hypocrite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pot calling the kettle black!!!!!!
You are a FANBOY!!!
solar  +   225d ago
yes, the power cord wont set your house on fire
kohlgamer  +   224d ago
Sales
SonofGod  +   225d ago
Uh oh, this article is bait for the drones. It's prety quiet now but soon they'll be all over this.

Watch out especially for vulcanproject and his long BS speech.

They're coming..

http://static.comicvine.com...
SniperControl  +   225d ago | Well said
" Watch out especially for vulcanproject and his long BS speech."

Lol, looks who's talking, you would rather listen to that moron misterx spout his BS and then preach it here, but when someone with some technical knowhow states facts, it's BS. Lol
cozomel  +   225d ago
Just look at this troll baiting people. Why do the mods let him be? why isnt this guy getting flagged for trolling? its all he does.

And thank you sniper, well said, +bubble for you and -bubble for trolling for the clown above you.
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mark3214uk  +   225d ago
Phil spencer: How can we sell more xbones numbers are low?

lets throw out another secret source rumour the fanboys will fuel it,then we will just let them down there used to it by now :p

+10000 x1 sold for ms

also lets pump another 1mil into hyping titanfall,we will sell loads of x1s before they figure out the game sucks
starchild  +   224d ago
I agree that the fanboys can be pretty stupid, but vulcanproject knows what he is talking about.
Kayant  +   225d ago
Nope. They said it themselves it was based on the sea island series just like the PS4's.

"Just like our friends we're based on the Sea Islands family. We've made quite a number of changes in different parts of the areas. The biggest thing in terms of the number of compute units, that's been something that's been very easy to focus on. It's like, hey, let's count up the number of CUs, count up the gigaflops and declare the winner based on that."

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

Using Panello's statements on gaf as evidence is laughable at best because he is the same person that went on to make these statements as well ->
http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
Where he talked about things like the CPU specs even though he said it himself that not everything is known about the systems but he is now making claims with leaked specs? And now come launch with benchmarks and a word from a dev we know that this is not the case and PS4 has more performance for gaming.

Also this --> http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

" If it comes out after we launch that the difference between 3rd party games is maybe single-digit FPS between the two platforms, will I get an apology or concession?" - Oh look launch came and has passed and not only is this true in that we have seen up to a 20fps average delta in the case of TR we also have resolution, AA and assets differences in some cases. So why hasn't he gone back to gaf and apologized as he was wrong?

Also remember when asked about the TR/multi-plat differences he didn't even talk about the differences and straight away went to exclusives (Ryse) as show of power/defense even though exclusives are always to one to push platforms anyway. http://n4g.com/news/1443424...

Yh the performance improvements DX12 could bring for XB1 are yet to be seen. But it's like people are forgetting that PS4's GPU is stronger by quite a margin so how they can tweak/improve their tools to such a degree to match/suppress stronger hardware is to be seen. Reading how Prt/megatextures work doesn't sound like how people are making out it to be. Read this ---> http://www.anandtech.com/sh... http://diaryofagraphicsprog...

DX12 will obviously help the XB1 but to the degree some people are thinking based on mistermedia's blog is hyperbolic. Do people really believe there is hidden hardware such as *128 MB Esram*, *ARM core + GPU cores* with performance equivalent to 10-12TF* depending on the task in a console for $500/£400.
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Ravenor  +   225d ago
I agree 100% DX12 on XB1 will not be a fully loaded version of DX12, it's likely only a subset of features will be available to the hardware. I also agree 1000% that there is no secret hardware on the Xbox One, consumer electronics don't work that way.

But seriously, every game I've played on my Xbox One has been perfectly fine. Even Tomb Raider, the difference in frame rate isn't important when it swings up and down and is extremely inconsistent on the PS4. I also can't/don't see a difference in texture quality, from where I'm sitting or even on the zoomed in DF images comparing the two.

If you're thrilled with just your PS4 I'm really happy for you, I needed both and personally I'm not crying over the minor differences seen so far. If it gets to the point where XB1 games look like 360 games in comparison to the PS4 version, I'll probably set aside the XB1 for exclusives. But as it stands, it's all about where my friends are. They bought TR for the XB1 so I did too, if they buy Titanfall 2 for the PS4... I hope you get the idea.
Brian360  +   225d ago
.
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dmitrijs88  +   225d ago
You can't brag about something thats abysmal.
CapraDemon  +   225d ago
So the secret source is not longer the power of the cloud but now its DX12? Well is suppose giving false hope to deluded fanboys is better than admitting that the have bought an inferior product at $100 more.
DoubleM70  +   225d ago
I don't see that inferiority you speak of. The features alone is worth that $100 dollars to me and my family. We enjoying those features immensly. Your looking at for just for gaming but I see the whole package.
Major_Glitch  +   224d ago
What "features" are you referring to specifically? Honest question.
cozomel  +   225d ago
Oh boy, here we go again with the new secret sauce. When will fanboys learn? I guess never, well prepare to be let down again. Y'all should be use to it by now. The X1 will never be as powerful as the PS4 unless Sony messes up its drivers and SDK and API and devs program to parity. Get out of your hopeful lala land and come back to the real world. Face reality and stop dreaming.
solar  +   225d ago
the PS4 isnt some dream machine either. just because you are the best turd in the punchbowl doesnt mean you arent in for a fight.
Rhythmattic  +   224d ago
solar

Punchbowl ? Now this, is Punchbowl......

http://www.youtube.com/watc...
solar  +   225d ago
both consoles are jokes when it comes to power. Sony and MS sold you all a bill of goods. DX12 wont make the X1 better. no matter what MS says.
ITPython  +   224d ago
Ugh, great more XB1 secret sauce blather.

Here's the thing... hardware has concrete limits. Software can make hardware work better or worse, but that hardware will always have its limits in what it can and cannot do. No amount of software upgrades will change that fact.

The PS4 has the superior hardware, and the XB1 will never be able to do what the PS4 can if they are both being pushed to their limits. And just like paper always beats rock, the PS4 will always beat the XB1 unless the PS4's hardware isn't being pushed to what it can handle.

That's not to say that the XB1 won't get a small boost to it's efficiency if the software they were using before was less efficient, but it's hardware is the ultimate reason why it will always under-perform compared to the PS4.
Tapewurm  +   224d ago
Answer to the title of this story (and it is a story...as in somebody is tellin' stories.)

The short answer to the title:

How's about no.

Plain and simple fact is that the xbone is the weaker of the two next gen machines...doesn't make it a bad console by any means...it is just weaker in it's spec's and nothing short of a rebuild will change that.... not enough clouds in the world to make that any different.
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Kavorklestein  +   224d ago
Why the hell does everyone care if people are excited for DX12? I can admit the xb1 is less powerful as of right now, but why can't you sony assholes let the xbots dream? Let them dream in peace! They don't need to be attacked just because they hope their console improves. If they want it to improve, just take it as a subconscious compliment that they know their system NEEDS to improve, I can't believe some people are bashing XB1 fans for wanting the best for their game console. It's the exact same as a sony fan being excited for ps now, or a nintendo fan being excited for a new zelda, just let them be excited. Stop telling them how excited they should or shouldn't be about it. It's like: "Sony fans, do I have YOUR permission to hope my xb1 gets better? Do I have YOUR permission to be excited for Titanfall? Do I have your permission to let a difference of 30 frames be the only thing that dictates if a game I buy is any fun?

Jeez you sony fans just give no room to breathe... I doubt you guys realize how bully-tastical you are. If you think they are somehow less than you, then why kick them while they're down? Just let them dream, and they may get a better system with dx12, but they may not, so just back up off their shit for once. If they are wrong, then you get to say I told you so, but if you are wrong, then you all just look stupid for trying to predict the future, even tho there is obviously a large amount of R&D going into both systems and we have no perfect layout of what the consoles are capable of.. let's just let time go on, wait for the games we wanna play to finally be released, and stop fighting in the meantime...
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maniacmayhem  +   225d ago | Well said
Very interesting and I definitely agree with his assumptions about what Penello said way back when. It looks to be fairly obvious that MS had this planned all along.

It's also pretty obvious that the rumors of MS's premature launch are solid also. Not to mention the other rumor that most of their first party games were not ready for the moved up launch of the X1.

This may lead to seeing MS's actual 1st party titles using DirectX12 and the 2 wave blowing people away as Spencer was telling everyone.

Again, we'll just have to wait and see if all this is true or smoke stacks. Regardless, it's a very exciting time to be a gamer.
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Naga  +   225d ago
That is a really solid assessment. Well put.
Riderz1337  +   225d ago
Direct X 11 was announced June 2008.

It came out in October 2009.

Have fun waiting for those second wave games lol.
FanboyKilla  +   225d ago
you mean while xbox owners play titanfall and ps4 owners wait and wish for it for 3years?
OpieWinston  +   225d ago
You do realize that apparently lots of the first pary devs have had the tools for Direct X12 in their hands for a while now.

So the second wave of games will be hitting soon and probably Direct X12 with it.
SniperControl  +   225d ago | Well said
@fanboykilla

Nope, we'll have Second Son to play instead. Lol
zeuanimals  +   225d ago
@FanboyKilla:

Implying that PS4 owners don't own both or even a 360 or PC... I'll be playing the game on my crappy PC that ran the Beta really well. No need to go out spending an extra $500 just to play one game I can already play for just $50. Actually, it would cost me $620 to play it on the X1, $500 for the console and $120 for XBL and Titanfall.
#2.2.4 (Edited 225d ago ) | Agree(19) | Disagree(5) | Report
Slothnut  +   225d ago
All ten to fifteen hours of it haha
DigitalRaptor  +   225d ago
@ FanboyKilla

And after Titanfall... you'll be "awaiting greatness" right? Cause all I see on the immediate horizon is Kinect Sports Rivals in April. Vs the PS4's near future lineup that engulfs it. Yeah...
#2.2.6 (Edited 225d ago ) | Agree(13) | Disagree(3) | Report
No_Limit  +   225d ago | Well said
Good logic Maniacmayhem,

We will have to wait and see but tile resourcing and the full effect of the ESram in conjuction with DX12 should be pretty interesting.
lazyboyblue  +   225d ago
Bubble up. Well said you.
Fantangoooo  +   225d ago
well said maniacmayham,Its strongly clear they were not ready for the lunch window as much as they claimed.
Qwagy UK  +   225d ago
Normally the first batch of new DX cards blow the previous version of DX out of the water In terms of speed i.e. DX11 card running DX10 software, we are not seeing this with the xbone running DX11 software, the xbone is as mentioned only running DirectX 12 in some fashion and not the full blown DX12 as many are hoping for, to see the full extent of what DX12 is all about and what DX12 is able to do you will need a PC with a full blown DX12 card, I personally will be waiting 4 to 6 months after the launch of DX12 cards before I get 2 (sli) the hybrid cards are always better than the standard ones with higher clocks and better cooling.
Fireseed  +   225d ago
Unless you know... the hardware requirements were a complete paradigm shift... Kinda like the main point he proposed there.
Alan_Shore  +   225d ago
MS haven't said if it's running DirectX 12 full blown or just in some fashion will have to wait till GDC hopefully they don't duck the question.
Fireseed  +   225d ago
Agreed. this is something that NO amount of speculation could answer.
lets_go_gunners  +   225d ago
Why do these stupid articles get through......By tomorrow this will be the hottest topic and it will just filled with Xbot.....sony pony......blah blah..
cyhm3112  +   225d ago | Well said
laughing at those stupid idiots believing dx12 will increase the power of xbone, just like those with the cloud or secret sauce, so stupid, lol.
srd4484  +   225d ago
says someone who has NO clue about Directx. Posts like yours calling people stupid bring nothing to the conversation.
AngelicIceDiamond  +   225d ago
@Cyhm Nobody said anything about "making X1 more powerful" or increasing the power.

But Direct X is suppose to use the full advantage of X1's power.

So I guess you can say its unlocking X1's full potential.

If its as good as they say its gonna be that is.
christocolus  +   225d ago
I agree with you and besides everyone knows the whole xbx architecture(since the original xbx)has always been built with direct x in mind and i believe ms built the xbox one to be future compatible with the latest direct,which in this case is directx12 cos i remember an article which stated that ms had to do alot more work on the amd gpu in the console and for some reason they had to pay a huge amount of money to enable them do that.

in the end i cant say for sure what os going to happen but for now it all seems to point to one fact "that ms has been preparing for the launch of direct x12 on pc and xbx".. even the direct x team have stated we will know more about the xbox one and direct x12 at gdc.

That aside i hope ms shows a demo of an xbx one game running on dx12. Man E3 is going to be huge. The thought of seeing gears,halo and sunset overdrive at the event is driving me crazy.the wait seems so long.
#5.2.1 (Edited 225d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(10) | Report
AndrewLB  +   225d ago
Care to explain how Mantle gave large performance gains to APU based PC's? Last i checked, Directx is also an API and this refresh is supposed to give much better low level access... just like Mantle.
MadSientist89  +   225d ago
oh plz.. dumb article, the Xbone TFLOPS will never increase.. DX12 will be all up to devs to use and get the powa out of the box.. will not magically make xbone games 1080p all of a sudden.
OpieWinston  +   225d ago
You've got no idea how a Graphics Driver works do you?
MadSientist89  +   225d ago
I'm sorry I forgot you are a developer, please tell everyone how it works.
LogicStomper  +   225d ago
^

/ImplyingYouNeedToBeADevelope rToKnowHowAGraphicsDriverWorks
#6.1.2 (Edited 225d ago ) | Agree(12) | Disagree(9) | Report
OpieWinston  +   225d ago
Says the guy who first of all called this a "Dumb Article" when it's a videocast.
And then makes it sound like Direct X12 will have trouble bringing games to 1080p...And like 1080p is what devs should be aiming for.

Did you not learn from Thief?

Let the first party games speak for themselves when you compare Direct X to Open GL.
andromeduck  +   225d ago
I do

DX12 may be able to bring the XB up a few % by reducing overhead and giving better lower level access which thus far has not been very nice on with any DX device/version but very nice on PS but it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for the hardware's ALU to perform better than it already is.

Clock-speed and memory properties govern the maximum computational throughput of a GPU - the XB1 has 40% lower maximum computational throughput end of story.
Chug  +   225d ago
I'm not holding my breath.
JunkyardWillie  +   225d ago
KingThrash360 typed a whole damn essay. Cool story bruh, need more unicorns and leprechauns.
Jeedai Infidel  +   225d ago
Derp. Readin's hard.
JunkyardWillie  +   225d ago
Cool comment bruh, need less butthurt.
polow got sol  +   225d ago
I got my mcnuggets ready for dat secret sauce
JunkyardWillie  +   225d ago
That's what she said.
Chevalier  +   225d ago
It's ok Willie give em dat secret sauce.
donnieboy  +   225d ago
Oh god I hope so.
Lawboy2  +   225d ago
I don't understand why this is a bad article...atleast he points out links and why he believes this rumor...I thought it was pretty good....
sourgrouch   225d ago | Spam
Kribwalker  +   225d ago
It's considered a bad article here on PSN4G because it speaks of good Rumors towards Xbox one and doesn't speak of it's demise
urwifeminder  +   225d ago
Ms has so much momentum atm I hardly even hear about the other consoles anymore well done guys well done indeed, bring that DX12.
majiebeast  +   225d ago
I think you only hear and see what you want. Not what the rest of the world hears and sees.
urwifeminder  +   225d ago
You are right when I shut my eyes I can only see titans , my main concern is my entertainment not the worlds.
WeAreLegion  +   225d ago
You told me earlier this week that you only look at Xbox articles. So, which is it? You only read Xbox articles or you only "hear" about the Xbox One?
urwifeminder  +   225d ago
I find out mostly on youtube as I subscribe to xbox gamer channels and they have been on fire with all the competition talk. Do you see me in ps4 articles ? no so its both ,I only read xbox articles which this one is and only follow it on tha tubes. Thanks for the interest seems you are my first follower , for some reason I need to hear video hey sometimes I read captions as well.
#12.2.1 (Edited 225d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(10) | Report
DigitalRaptor  +   225d ago
@ urwifeminder

"Xbox gamer channels"

You mean the ones that skew negatives into positives, and opinions into facts, whilst continually damage controlling everything that comes along?
#12.2.2 (Edited 225d ago ) | Agree(12) | Disagree(2) | Report
srd4484  +   225d ago
XB1 was rumored to be released in 2014 but rushed out because Sony surprised them with a 2013 launch.
DirectX12 AND XB1 has been in the making for years. Kinda strange that both were coming out in the same year...And some people here are saying DX12 wont help or be included in the XB1 at all??? Don't get all the hate.
#13 (Edited 225d ago ) | Agree(17) | Disagree(8) | Report | Reply
Majin-vegeta  +   225d ago
It will help with game development but it's not gonna magically make it more powerful than the PS4.The hardware is set in stone.
srd4484  +   225d ago
If the XB1 hardware is already designed for DX12, then this could be big. You can't say the company who designed DX12 at the same time as XB1 never thought about making it work together.
The tweet by DirectX even says they game on XB1.
#13.1.1 (Edited 225d ago ) | Agree(15) | Disagree(13) | Report
lonewolfjedi  +   225d ago
Not with this mess again. the xbone problem is hardware not software. the size of the esram is a bottleneck and plus I thought you guys said resolution and graphics don't matter.
#14 (Edited 225d ago ) | Agree(21) | Disagree(20) | Report | Reply
sourgrouch   225d ago | Spam
Chevalier  +   225d ago
MS once told them they didn't need HDMI for HD gaming (original 360 NO HDMI port), they didn't need that extra storage (remember the memory cards, no bluray, or ability exchange hard drives), No Wifi built in $100 network adapter. First couple years had great 1st party support and when those ran out ONLY 3rd party games and DLC mattered and the last 3 years had almost NO exclusives, but, it's ok because MS is going to 'support' the 360 for 3 more years! Now it's resolution doesn't matter only the games matter so back to back to step one, rinse, repeat, till convenient arguments run out.
n4rc  +   225d ago
You didn't.. The composite cables would allow 720p (as far I remember, its been awhile)

1080p wasn't in the minds of people yet
The_devils_chum  +   225d ago
Oh xbone your like some washed up reality show contestant trying to get one last minute of fame out of your dying career before your retired, whats next ? Some sex tape with you and the. Sega dream cast bumping uglys .
Beastforlifenoob  +   225d ago
I agree also DX12 is coming to PC's.

Big deal kids the 360 had dx10 and the PS3 survived on opengl (it can be argued that ps3 was the best but thats a different conversation).

LOL it will add some rendering features and a bit of optimization here and there but to suggest OpenGL wont match those features anytime soon is an insane idea.

Wait for the dissapointment fulled Ryse games
A few graphical features but basically a 2 hr campaign and an mp hardly playable due to microtransactions.
#15.1 (Edited 225d ago ) | Agree(11) | Disagree(14) | Report | Reply
Legacy212  +   225d ago
Move out of your moms basement
coolcal  +   225d ago
It Just surprises me to see so many people jump ship from Xbox so fast after seeing how they have some of the best, if not the Best engineers in the world. People so easily forget how XBOX 360 evolve into a new system almost every year for 8 years. MS managed to out do sony's PS3 (which used blu ray disc) by maximizing DVD's. They continued to invent new ways to compress data. it's only now at the end of the 360 cycle that your getting multi disc on the xbox360. Play this down all you want XBOX haters, but MS has been saying all along this is a MARATHON not a SPRINT. You guys do this every generation "POWA POWA POWA" sony has soooooo much POWA. BEST looking game on consoles right now is…..RYSE!! Ive never seen so many sony fanboys act as if they have never seen "infamous" before. It's the same game as 1, and ,2 this time it has pretty graphics but it still runs at 30 fps"lol" . So you guys really think XBOX is Dead"lol" because of what….Tomb raider, and a bunch of first gen titles. There's still room to come back for all the band wagon fans that left. Direct x12 is a game changer!! see ya soon:)
#16 (Edited 225d ago ) | Agree(16) | Disagree(27) | Report | Reply
JohnathanACE  +   225d ago
Sorry but I think Direct x12 is just the next "cloud" that Xbox fanboys are going to get hyped about.
Ra3030  +   225d ago
Well my friend let's hope that when you run Ryse the modern remake of Simon Says On your X1 when they add Dookie X12. Let's hope that game looks as pretty.....I have a question for you about Ryse Son Of Simon...when Caesar says press Y and the press A for a combo sword whatever and you miss and press B. Does Caesar say off with you head Centurion?
........
PS Addon ALERT!!! have no bubbles apparently no one like me. Can u imagine that?
Anyway.....to the person who wrote
"Does Xbox One have Secret Sauce in it? DirectX 12 a Game Changer"
If by Secret Sauce Game Changer you mean made with lotsa extra RROD then......YES!
Xbots will have seconds, thirds and some even more.
#16.2 (Edited 225d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(9) | Report | Reply
rainslacker  +   225d ago
I would argue that MS sticking with DVD actually held back the generation. Final Fantasy XIII was gimped due to DVD. Sony's first party which wasn't constrained by parity excelled in the graphics and media department, where as 3rd party multi-plats either required multiple discs or lowered resources, typically in the sound department. In some cases cut-scenes were in a lower resolution.

MS didn't excel at making compression standards. You can compress game data by quite a bit, but decompression takes a long time the more compressed it is. Games just got shorter.

The advances in games came from streamlining of processes and optimization of game engines. Not because MS provided new tools every year.

I'm sorry, but DX12 will offer improvements to the system, of that I have no doubt. But unless MS actually has some very custom processes added to their GPU, DX12 isn't the secret sauce that many X1 fans are hoping for. It's very apparent to me that many of these fans, yourself included, don't really understand what DX is, or how it works. It's almost sad how many completely ignore people that do know how this stuff works and they get massive disagrees just because they're saying people should exercise restraint.
n4rc  +   225d ago
"But unless MS actually has some very custom processes added to their GPU, DX12 isn't the secret sauce that many X1 fans are hoping for. It's very apparent to me that many of these fans, yourself included, don't really understand what DX is, or how it works"

Unless being the key word... What if they did? Its a very realistic possibility
rainslacker  +   225d ago
It's already been reported that both MS and Sony customized their GPU chips by AMD and the companies themselves. Doesn't take much of a stretch to assume they added some stuff to take advantage of DX12. However, due to the lower specs of the X1 chip, it means that it's not going to make up for the raw power that the PS4 can produce.

As many that know how DX or OpenGL work have said, it will probably improve things regardless of is there is DX12 customization. However, it's not going to be the major advantage("that secret sauce") that many seem to think it will be.
Chevalier  +   225d ago
Ironic you mention marathon where Sony continues support, last 3 years has had almost NO exclusives on 360 so I guess that's how MS supports you? Also ironic you mention fps for Infamous when most Xbox One games also run at lower fps and resolution. Also maximizing DVD's? You mean how almost every major release in the last 2 years required multiple discs? If that's your idea of maximizing your logic is flawed because clearly it wasn't cutting it, in fact multiple disc proves that, hence the blurays in Xbones. Also don't go mention how Sony fans are jumping the bandwagon because of what you refer to as '1st gen' titles, the last gen titles on PS3 along this 'marathon' far surpass all the 360 exclusives.
Ra3030  +   225d ago
Wait! ...what? I thought Titanfall was the game changer?
#17 (Edited 225d ago ) | Agree(16) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
Yo Mama  +   225d ago | Well said
Omfg. Xbox is doing so bad they've gone and resorted to the "secret sauce" rumors again. Anything to keep hope alive and maybe trick some naive people into some purchases, huh?
LogicStomper  +   225d ago
How's it doing 'so bad'?
DigitalRaptor  +   225d ago
- Getting outsold 5:1 by PS4 and even the Wii U and Vita in Europe.
- Getting outsold 2:1 in the land that MS boasts about being their most important market.
- So essentially, having no relevant global market is a bad thing for such a huge corporation.

To the onlooker, it might not be 'so bad', but to Microsoft who was looking to dominate the market once again with their all-in-one vision, this is a bad position to be in.
#18.1.1 (Edited 225d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(2) | Report
LogicStomper  +   224d ago
So getting out-sold is the definition of bad in this case?

What if both companies were selling great, and one company just so happens to sell more than the other. Does this idea of getting out-sold (even though you are selling great) make your sales bad?

If you don't understand the idea, an analogy to take it out of console perspective:

You're at the Olympic games. You've got Usain Bolt versing Tyson Gay. If Tyson Gay loses to Usain Bolt, does this make Tyson a really bad sprinter?

So yes, Xbox may be doing bad *relative* to PS4, but no, they are not doing bad when looking at Xbox itself.

(By the way, sales =/= doing good or bad. CoD being a prime example of this according to n4ggers).
DivineHand125  +   225d ago
Direct x12 has a high probability of being just a marketing slang for the Xbox One. We will probably not be seeing any direct x 12 features showing up on that console because the hardware inside is most likely direct x11. It will be like playing a game that uses direct x11 with a direct x10 gpu and expecting to see the same visuals as advertised. Not gonna happen.
Also Even if they somehow managed to get dx12 on with all the features, I don't think developers(unless they are Dice) will be willing to use it because Microsoft might do something stupid and make it a windows 8 exclusive which has already been ignored by most PC gamers as a gaming platform and it will take 2-3 years before the pc gaming market is large enough to warrant having developers do large scale adaptation of direct x12.
rainslacker  +   225d ago
I'm guessing that they did add some custom processes to the GPU. However, there is still a limit on what the actual chip can do. It definitely won't use the full DX12 feature set, and I question if it's even necessary since the dev can go straight to the hardware. The biggest advantage to it is that it allows dev to not spend as much time on such things and just use a default, highly optimized version of DX built specifically for the X1.
EXVirtual  +   225d ago
Well, despite the fact that the XBO will most likely not have all the features that DX12 has to offer and that it might just be marketing slang like you said, misterxmedia is hyping this up already. I knew he would have a field day with this DX12 thing. Look at his latest post.
http://misterxmedia.livejou...
And so it begins again.
Lawboy2  +   225d ago
Some ppl are so funny
WeAreLegion  +   225d ago
This is them catching up to OpenGL. It's the equivalent of an Internet Explorer update. Nobody cares because we have Chrome or Firefox.
Lawboy2  +   225d ago
Ps4 has Firefox...how do u get that on the console
No_Limit  +   225d ago
Man, the amount of fear in the opposition regarding DX12 working with XB1 is really priceless to see. Didn't MS already state the next Halo will be 1080p and 60fp at E3 last year?

"Halo Xbox One" due next year, runs in 1080p at 60fps
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

DX12 related?? Very interesting.
#22 (Edited 225d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(16) | Report | Reply
Majin-vegeta  +   225d ago
*Man, the amount of fear in the opposition regarding DX12 working with XB1 is really priceless to see.*

No no no,No one is afraid of this.It's the fact that you xbox fanboys believe that this will somehow magically make the X1 more powerful than the PS4. It won't like I said.It will help with game development but the freaking hardware is set in stone and the 32MB of esram is the freaking bottleneck for the system.

Let me put it into perspective so people can understand it.I'll use cars as an example

Honda(MS) Nissan GTR(PS4)

You can tweak the Honda all you want but.While you're doing that the GTR will also be getting tweaked.At the end of the day no amount of tweaking will help the Honda surpass the GTR cuz it's under powered the way it was made period.
worldwidegaming  +   225d ago
I would really like to know what DX12 will do.
TRD4L1fe  +   225d ago
we might find out at GDC or E3
ArbitorChief  +   225d ago
I've been hearing a lot of rumours about what DX12 will bring, all I know is DX12 will be a game changer for XB1 and bring leverage for the XB1. We'll have to wait and see what DX12 brings.
koliosis  +   225d ago
THE BEAST UNLEASH!!!!
Agent_hitman  +   225d ago
Who knows DirectX 12 might be in development along with X1 in the early stage of it's R&D. So it's not impossible if this API will support X1 in the future games..

Remember guys, console GPUs were customized, it's not exactly equivalent to desktop video cards.. There might be secret sauce inside that chip
DJ  +   225d ago
They're 100% equivalent to desktop GPUs. Both consoles are going to receive updates to improve drivers and their respective OS's. But this will not push the XBO's CPU and GPU performance past PS4's. DDR3 memory is half the speed of GDDR5. And that's on top of the 12 CUs for XBO's GPU vs 18 CUs for PS4.
DJ  +   225d ago
Secret sauce speculation is always fun.
PCpower  +   225d ago
DirecX has been around BEFORE the XBOX and has NOTHING to do with the "X" in Xbox. DirectX is Microsoft's proprietary API that the Windows OS has used since the early 1990's. In the 90's you had OpenGL, DirectX, and Voodoo Glide. DirectX won out as the API that Microsoft wanted to use.

Mantle has Microsoft scared because it is a competing API that so happens to be better optimized to the point that weak processors like Intel's i3's can now hold their own against i5's in not being a bottleneck to the graphics card.

So Microsoft is bringing out DirectX 12 with low CPU overhead so that DirectX will forever be the API of choice for games. Microsoft hates competition after all...
#28 (Edited 225d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
RedCloud88  +   225d ago
Half right, direct x was definitely around before xbox, but the name xbox does indeed come from the original systems ability to run direct x. It was internally known as the directx box before the name was shortened.
#28.1 (Edited 225d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
IRNMUNKEY  +   225d ago
So let me get this straight you think DX12 features were just made since the release of Xbox One.

The whole machine will have been made alongside the feature set of DX12. Maybe do some reading and you see that new future AMD cards are going to have esram and ddr3.

Everything put into Xbox was put there to run DX12. Its new technology so the straight comparison stuff isn't valid as its a new way of doing things.

Microsoft was surprised by early PS4 release so released early with basic functionality so as not to let Sony get ahead too far. I don't believe they would spend so much money on R&D to end up with a weak machine.

Just wait an see what GDC and E3 brings.
#29 (Edited 225d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(8) | Report | Reply
Kayant  +   225d ago
"Maybe do some reading and you see that new future AMD cards are going to have esram and ddr3." - Wait lmaooooo. You're actually being serious. So instead of using the next iteration to GDDR5 - GDDR6 they will instead go back to DDR3 even though they had the first gpu with GDDR5 and released this graph about the advantages -> http://www.amd.com/us/produ... . And the whole point of the creation of GDDR was for graphical applications because of it's high consistent bandwidth.

Please provide a link to this said rumour.
#29.1 (Edited 225d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
NeoTribe  +   225d ago
You guys will never admit the xone is weaksauce and there is no super secret thing inside it thats gonna all of a sudden make it way stronger. Its over with guys, get use to losing.
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