4Player-"Out of the two big players here, Microsoft and Sony, my gut reaction is that Sony has it right. Do not assuage yourself from the used games market, however give gamers a different approach. By offering a competitive choice, Sony may come out on top. Microsoft may be doing themselves a world of hurt by spurning the consumer as a first step."
TSA asks what is the future for Xbox.
They clearly never did, hence why they spent so many BILLIONS on other publishers as a last resort.
They have a plan. It's to move everything toward streaming and mobile. This is just the next step.
With half of the money they spent, they could have been on the very top and the gaming industry would be way bigger than it is.. encourage developers, indies, make them grow trust them and they will deliver.
What are you talking about Cacabunga? The Xbox faithful insisted that Microsoft has infinite money, and after Activision they should buy Square Enix and Capcom before Sony does. There was no chance ever that Microsoft would do this. They would use their infinite millions and Bitcoins to invest in 50 new IP and beat everyone.
Sure, a plan to be a more hated game company than EA. Ubisoft were recently giving them a run for their money but I think Xbox have really knocked it out the park with their latest stunt.
Absolutely not, their whole plan is at odd with what MS wants
Phil wants GP to become big
MS wants to sell games and make billions
GP can’t be sustained with AAA games which take 3-5 years and 7 figure budgets. Only go put those games on GP day one. Why do you think games are coming out on other platforms?
People want a change and want Phil gone without realizing if someone new comes along they may want to change everything again so we just keep going in circles. Phil has to realize that and give clear message on the direction of Xbox
There are two reasons why all those Bethesda studios closed, and neither of them have anything to do with Bethesda (directly)...
Game Pass and Activision.
The guy confirming what we've all (well, most of us) been saying since the latest purchase.
Remember the relatively common counter that went something like "I'm sure you arm-chair CEOs know better how to run a company than the biggest company in the world"?
I mean - there's a lot to running a company for sure, but on this topic it's hard to understand how Phil and team didn't see this coming.
Phil and team knew it was coming and planned for it. It's not even a conspiracy, it's simply the business of cutting costs and superfluous studios after a major acquisition. They don't give a damn about Tango Gameworks or other small creative studios that won't recoup their losses. They don't care about investing in this industry. They have no interest in risky and expensive new IP. They are only interested in profiting off ownership of Bethesda IP, Call of Duty and Candy Crush.
I guarantee you that not one single game under their banner will improve or become bigger and better.
Welcome to the Xbox family, what a pathetic joke.
Anyone who continues to support this, enjoy your future, because this is it. Ninja Theory is next, and Perfect Dark after that.
Especially not with the evidence of tons of existing movie streaming subs out there and how they fail to make a profit with over 100m users each quarter.
Apparently they're debating if they wanna put the new Cod on Gamepass or not.
Either grow GP with Cod or don't put it on GP and grow the revenue the traditional way while GP will suffer.
The mess that MS puts themselves in.
LOL the cheerleaders for the ABK acquisition were all cheering for CoD to be on GP day 1 and they were adamant that Jim Ryan was scared because of THAT and was fighting for the survival of the PS brand if CoD is taken away or given day 1 on GP. hahaha...now suddenly MS is unsure if they wanna put CoD on GP day 1??
isn't this false marketing? they said ALL (not some) 1st party xbox games will be released on GP day 1 and CoD is now 1st party starting last year! it's right there still on their website.
https://www.xbox.com/en-US/...
lawsuit time??
@badz149
People were being blind fans. Things is if you look at things objectively and logically since inception, gamepass from a business perspective was never going to be good idea unless you had hundreds of millions subscribed, which Microsoft was never going to get in a timely manner.
People kept pointing out the cons and people kept having their hands over their ears. I wonder how guys like Orchard and Septic who were rooting for the acquisition to go through like people do when their team makes it to the Superbowl are receiving this news lol
Honestly i think Bethesda needs to buy themselves out of zenimax/MSs hands and do their own thing, i honestly think that would fix a lot of issues and save them from a potential closure.
There's a reason they sold in the first place. And Bethesda is not closing anytime soon lol. As much as I hate the studio closures. They were all small studios 2 of them were mobile studios.
I think these are growing pains and Xbox will get back on track. But they're not getting any more passes.
I’d like to see your reaction to being growing pained out of your job after the launch of a successful product.
Excuses, Excuses, excuses.
If growing pains have been happening for the best part of a decade, they're not growth.
Zeref nii San
I'm sorry but xbox has been rightfully bashed due to constant incompetence
Yet you literally just gave them a pass, being "small studios" or "mobile studios" is irrelevant. There's no excsue for closing Tango, none. They praise the game, they PR talk about it's the kind of game the company needs and yet they shutter the developer, that's foul on every level.
Ah Zeref head in the sand like a idiot. Gamepass is a absolute failure like we all told you. Nothing at this point will turn this around. It's not growing pains, the growth is done. Even streaming with 100 million subscribers can't turn a profit and you think Xbox with Gamepass will turn it around? Lol.
It's not a coincidence that Xbox stopped announcing Xbox Gamepass numbers just like they stopped announcing Xbox One hardware numbers and no Series S/X numbers which are behind the Xbox One even.
Remember when we said Xbox customers don't buy games?! Lol. Well this confirmed literally everything we told Xbox fans that said Gamepass was very profitable? Sorry revenues and lack of profit suggest otherwise
Can't wait to see your reaction when their 2nd round of closures happens. Perfect Dark studio and Ninja Theory will next.
Bethesda greenlit Redfall, launched Fallout 76 in the condition it was in (and the fiasco with the bonus bag), and spent all that time on Starfield finishing it as it was with that same engine. Wolfenstein Youngblood exists because of them too, not Microsoft.
Are you *sure* leaving them alone would actually result in a better outcome, not just a different one?
A lot of this excessive monetization, and GAAS crap started when Zenimax decided to start looking for a buyer. Not a coincidence that there was a sudden shift in prioritizing profits above quality or even coherence at the same time. They wanted big numbers to attract buyers, now that they've been bought, MS wants exactly what they were baited with.
However even under Zenimax they made enough to self publish sometimes, so i would imagine it's not too far fetched that they could pay their way into independence if they REALLY wanted to.
Also even people at Bethesda and Arkane were hoping MS would cancel the game as again, they were forced to make something they didn't want to make.
Ah, we can see how the Microsoft media machine works.
Every article I read now is some kind of attempt to shift the blame off Microsoft and paint them as the victims or convince people that Microsoft mistakes were just some kind unforeseeable unfortunate twist of fate.
The shills are out in full force today.
This is not at all what this article is saying. It's saying that honest and useful studios are getting closed because of big money deals elsewhere and the faults with game pass as a model.
I understand what the article is about.
It's a deflection, it's a putting the cart before the horse article.
Let me tell you how this problem wouldn't have existed in the first place.
Microsoft not creating a service funded by subsidization and having the foresight to see that it would disrupt consumer spending habit to begin with. Then not buying Bethesda and undertaking costs for a service that was already failing to pay for itself because their own expectations of Game Pass having "billions" of subscribers was unobtainable from the very start.
And if you don't think that was the case go back to the article on the day Game Pass launched and read the comments from people from day one who foresaw that this would be an unsustainable model and would cause people to stop spending in the same way.
***Microsoft not creating a service funded by subsidization and having the foresight to see that it would disrupt consumer spending habit to begin with.***
This article literally supports this opinion. He's not praising Game Pass or the ABK purchase.
This is an explanation of why it failed, there is zero blame put onto Microsoft itself.
Yes, it talks about what went wrong, but it doesn't say Microsoft shouldn't have done it. It doesn't say Phil should have foreseen this outcome and stopped before it got to this point.
"convince people that Microsoft mistakes were just some kind unforeseeable unfortunate twist of fate"
***but you're seeing the impact; all those smaller studios making really interesting games are going to fall away, simply because as good as games like Hi-Fi Rush are, they're never going to make enough money to make up that $70B hole that Xbox now has to dig itself out of.***
If you see that as support or you explicitly just want people to end their argument with "and, in conclusion, Microsoft bad" then that's on you. This article does not support Microsoft's choices and highlights the faults. Nothing it says is good about these choices, even saying that putting CoD on Game Pass would be money losing for them because they've set themselves up for failure (and not putting it on there will drop subscriber numbers like crazy, meaning their Game Pass plans were shit to begin with).
No matter how you look at it, they're saying Microsoft made decisions that hurt the bottom line, force closures, and leave Game Pass in a situation where they lose no matter what they do. It's all negative.
Christopher, if Microsoft hadn't made Game Pass and bought a bunch of publishers would this article even need to exist?
***Christopher, if Microsoft hadn't made Game Pass and bought a bunch of publishers would this article even need to exist? ***
How is this an argument to anything being discussed? This is just as valuable of an argument as "if fish had stayed in deeper waters, they wouldn't have evolved to tetrapods, adapted to shallow water and then to land, and we wouldn't even exist and have to worry about game pass at all."
You're bringing nothing to this argument and then complaining that other people are highlighting the issues with Game Pass and spending tens of billions on studios because what we should be discussing is what it would be like if Microsoft hadn't done any of that.
Well, they did do it. Now pull up your big boy pants and join in on the discussion of what that has meant for the industry since then and, especially right now, how that is affecting the industry and game studios under Microsoft. None of us are able to go back in time and change what was done.
Christopher, this isn't me not understanding what the article is about, it's you not understanding what I am saying.
If you want me to make excuses for Microsoft's bad decisions you're not going to get that or just agree with people who are doing that, it's not going to happen, nor are you going to convert me into thinking xbox "needs to exist".
Ya know what, maybe "Microsoft bad".... maybe their decisions ARE having a negative effect on the industry, and instead of deflecting from their actual actions and making excuses for them we stand up and say "no" "Microsoft is hurting the industry"
And maybe, just maybe, it was so obvious that this was going to be the outcome that even nobodies in comment sections on websites were able to easily predict this outcome, yet Microsoft did it anyway then kept doing and even when it became undeniable that it was having a negative impact on their business and and the industry itself, then they knowingly made even bigger purchases and caused more problems.
And the one thing you're right about is that I can't go back in time, but I CAN speak up and try to keep it from happening again...
Maybe if the people who were speaking up 7 years ago were listened too we wouldn't be having this discussion and Tango and Arkane would still be in business along with all the other people who have lost their jobs due to Microsoft's actions.
Do you like analogies?
What you're saying is like an alcoholic crashing their car then trying to explain it by saying it was caused by everything except the fact that they were dunk because they are an alcoholic and don't want to stop drinking.
Why the excuses here? Microsoft did one thing no other company can do which is subsidize Xbox with these insane purchases in hopes of suffocating the industry out in hopes to be the last one standing so they can charge whatever they want.
How are you excusing this crap even and putting your head in the sand here? It's pretty clear who is at fault here for the situation they built and put themselves in. It's them trying to push everyone around with cash that no one else can compare.
They knowingly did all that and now are trying to pretend the market is to blame? Lol. That is absolutely rich irony. That you can't see the forest for the trees here too.
The article is essentially focusing the blame on MS. GamePass was a hail mary play to change the gaming paradigm and carve out a special niche for themselves, emulating the Netflix model, that might have led to MS becoming the leader in the long-term. Unfortunately, the subscriber growth isn't really there, and the model isn't really built to weather that lack of revenue. MS is now in a restructure mindset to figure out how they balance out their model in a way that can still make them money.
've always believed that GamePass was a high risk shot that had a very low chance of long-term success. But the problem with it, whether it succeeded or not, is that it accelerated the proverbial "race to zero" consumer expectation that ran its course in the mobile gaming industry in the late 2000s. When consumers start thinking that games should be "cheap" (as in through a $10/month all-you-can-eat subscription model), it turns the narrative against games being priced at realistic levels. So with the GamePass failure, they've not only sabotaged their market share, but they've impacted the entire industry and devalued the cost of game development to the average consumer. So now it's harder to develop mega-big budget games and to earn the revenue needed to pay for them.
***If you want me to make excuses for Microsoft's bad decisions you're not going to get that or just agree with people who are doing that, it's not going to happen, nor are you going to convert me into thinking xbox "needs to exist". ***
No one is asking you to make excuses for Microsoft's bad decisions nor is anyone asking you to convert to anything.
***Ya know what, maybe "Microsoft bad".... maybe their decisions ARE having a negative effect on the industry, and instead of deflecting from their actual actions and making excuses for them we stand up and say "no" "Microsoft is hurting the industry" ***
Literally no one here is doing this. They're literally discussing how Microsoft's decisions have hurt the industry. Except you. You're rambling about why people aren't complaining about Microsoft when people are in fact complaining about Microsoft.
*** And the one thing you're right about is that I can't go back in time, but I CAN speak up and try to keep it from happening again... ***
Then perhaps actually add something to the conversation other than calling people shills when people are complaining about the decisions and repercussions of Microsoft's actions.
Christopher, you're fighting a block wall here - Ein will continue twisting and contorting any remark to fit his self-created narrative.
"Then perhaps actually add something to the conversation other than calling people shills when people are complaining about the decisions and repercussions of Microsoft's actions."
Cristopher, in no way is the author of this article complaining, they are explaining what happened it's literally the title. They never once say that Microsoft shouldn't have bought Zenimax or Activision or that Game Pass was a bad idea to begin with. They think the problem with Game Pass is that it didn't grow fast enough, not that it was a bad idea from the get go.
BTW this is his job title.
"Public Relations and Communications Leader"
What do you think a Public Relations and Communications Leader does to make money?
Edit: I have read a dozen of these articles that just started coming out in the last 24 hours that are trying to shift the conversation away from blaming Microsoft, the shift here and in several other articles is trying to say it just didn't gain subscribers fast enough, not that it was a bad idea to begin with that was doomed to fail or placing the blame on anyone.
It was all just an unforeseeable outcome, no one should be held responsible it was just a billion dollar oopsie that's costing thousands of people their jobs and has caused a downturn in the entire industries sustainability.
Oopsie!
It's greed. MS has the IP's it wants now it's dumping the studios that it's raided, MS will still make money from Tango's games unlike the people that made them. If anyone follows MS outside of gaming you'll see this is what they do, buy companies take what they want consolidate some of the workforce and shut them down. I don't know why people are acting so surprised when this is Microsoft being Microsoft.
MS is a three trillion dollar company, if it enters a market it has no need to compete, they take what they want and with the financial influence it can bypass laws that are meant to protect the consumer and the workforce. Just look at how they are cornering the AI market right now with buyups and investments.
Back when the Xbox 360 launched, Microsoft pushed the big budget game as a differentiator. Following all the recent layoffs, it’s clear this strategy has run its course.
The Microsoft shill take on the Microsoft causing the death of big budget gaming...
The whole driving force for growth in gaming both technologically, creatively and financially was all nonsense, and it was definitely not because Microsoft ran the industry into the ground with obviously bad decisions and creating an unprofitable business model that massively disrupted consumer spending habits. /s
First, F**** Forbes and their shill take, I hope the money cleared by now.
Second, Which big budget games I might ask? Microsoft has been in a rut for like a decade now, with no big publisher and developers puechases they would have not released anything in the last 5 years but the new Halo and Forza.
Fortunately for us, since we know this message is basically coming from Microsoft, we can read into their motives. Why are they trying to turn people against big budget games and who would it help.... hmmm.
GP is like any content service it needs new content. AAA games take 100 plus million (low end estimates since most AAA games take double that) and it 4-5 years to develop. That’s why there were 2 god of war games instead of 3 because Cory felt like it would take too long
I am not defending MS. That’s just the reality when you put all your eggs in one basket (gamepass) and now they need content. Sadly that’s what we all said would happen and is happening. GP will be a service for AA games with 1-2 AAA games on yearly basis. And I am all for AA games because to me that’s where developers can take chances on smaller budgets but MS has mismanaged this whole situation from the beginning. Their messaging needs to be clear and it’s not
They own so many studios and IP’s they just need to get everyone on schedule so that there are games releasing every few months on GP. But I don’t even think Phil knows what he wants. It seems his goals change constantly
Game pass is not a sustainable and take two ceo was right when he said that it doesn’t make any business sense to release huge AAA games day one on GP. Just like call of duty shouldn’t be on GP because why give up on 15-20 million sales
"And I am all for AA games because to me that’s where developers can take chances on smaller budgets"
How'd that work out for Tango?
Do you think less AAA games will increase game pass revenue or decrease it when it has less value? What if they also have to increase the costs?
Right on.
Hahaha MS has ended “focus” on games? Lol when? 3 generations ago maybe?
Man I don’t know what the writer is smoking, anyone with a braincell can see what will happen is the exact opposite, they’re gonna double down on big name IPs and turn them into GaaS and milk them to the extreme with multiple studios focusing on specific IPs instead of creating their own games.
It was so clear with the way they keep 343 despite multiple failures and shutting down Tango even after winning awards, MS is a service provider and not a product creator, they will buy the product from others and turn it into a service.
LOL, this article is a big pile of dog crap...
Spencer has been constantly telling ppl that NO they would not go the route of having games like TLOU, Uncharted, etc because Playstation exists and prefers to focus on a diverse portfolio.
How many years have we seen Xbox as no game and we don't want small games like ORI, Pentiment, Grounded, etc.?
That's the real tragedy and why lots of gamers are mad at MS right now
because they have been championing smaller titles and yet fired the ppl delivering exactly what they were proning about.
So no the only nonsense is that MS seems now to be going BACK to AAA popular titles..sorry, I meant refocusing effort on core established IP where broken GAAS might be rewarded versus praised and rewarded work.
https://media1.tenor.com/m/...
You read an article cheerleading the end of big budget games and all the other articles about problems and this is what you have to say? That's what you think "the real tragedy" is?
I thought that xbox fans might finally "get it", but no, it seems they don't even understand what is happening and what is at stake.
Please tell me what's happening and what is at stake
Since it's not big companies closing small studios, killing innovation while refocusing assets on big ongoing projects and core IP?
Let's See MS Close Tango Studio mentions that they are too thin on key project
Sony Close London Studio and make massive cuts in Firespite will reallocate resources to core project
EA will focus on Core project
Square will focus on big established IP
.....
.....
Deuces! :)
They're not going to block used games
if M$ says they are going to do all i will hear this they want you to buy either a PS4, wii u, or PC over the next xbox
Man.What a way for the Xbox brand to die out.Like a candle in the wind.
If people can handle paying for online then i don't see why blocking used games would be such an issue.
Sure they are two different things but loyalty has already been proven as they are both pretty out there.