180°

Denis Dyack: Used Game Sales and Piracy Very Similar

GamingUnion.net writes, "Early last week London, Ontario hosted the DIG London video game developers conference, with developers such as renowned developer and Silicon Knights president, Denis Dyack. GamingUnion.net had the unique opportunity to take part in an on-stage interview with Dyack, focusing on his core values within the video game industry. However, before going on stage we caught up with Denis for an exclusive interview about other industry issues.

GamingUnion.net has prepared a two part interview for later today, and tomorrow, with Denis Dyack speaking on such issues as video game piracy, the injustice of used video game sales, and what digital distribution will do to the industry as we know it. Likely the most debatable issue discussed, used game sales, was a particularly interesting point of discussion."

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gamingunion.net
mephman5276d ago

It's perhaps a weird analogy to make, but it's actually quite true.

reintype5276d ago

But at least, we paid for it.

Publishers/Devs may not like it, but there are few games imo, that is worth its initial asking price.

Besides that, there are other reasons too. I for one, have a profound dislike for certain Publishers, thinking of them making a profit from me, does not sit too well, better the bloke or the Used gameshop imo.

Gamehead365276d ago

Maybe if every game didn't ask for $60 people wouldn't look towards used games as much. The only thing that stops me from buying used is the thought of supporting gamestop.

morganfell5276d ago (Edited 5276d ago )

Denis would know. He is an expert in ripping people off.

So what he is saying is that selling your used 2007 Dodge Charger that you bought new with your own money is the same thing as making a copy of a 2007 Dodge and selling it.

And the person that legally buys your used 2007 Dodge Charger is as guilty as a person that buys an illegally made duplicate of a 2007 Dodge Charger.

umair_s515276d ago

I think upon resale of a game a fixed percentage should be given to the developer. I have no idea how this system would be implemented. But its a good idea

morganfell5276d ago

I don't remember Rembrandt's family getting a percentage of the last resale of one of his paintings. The idea of such a system is absurd.

The best insurance against re-sales is for developers to make a great game. The number of pirated game copies produced in this world doesn't even begin to approach the number of legally produced pieces of crap trhat are shoved out the door and called retail games.

Besides, Dyack is becoming the king of whiners.,.about everything.

velcry5276d ago

For the thousandth time, when there is a healthy used-game market, first-hand buyers SPEND MORE because there is always the option of selling games if they end up tight for cash.

Take away the used-game market, and first-time buyers will realize that when they sink their money into games, they are essentially locking away that cash for good, and WILL SPEND LESS.

True, the used-game market undercuts developers, but to say that buying used-games is not much different from piracy?!? Give some credit to the people like me who make an effort to stay away from piracy, WHICH HELPS NEITHER THE DEVELOPER NOR FIRST-HAND BUYERS.

Geez.

IdleLeeSiuLung5276d ago

from a legal standpoint the latter is illegal while the former is legal.

Therefore I see no problem with the former and developers should encourage (as they already do) development of games that appeals longer.

evrfighter5276d ago

I agree used game sales and piracy are one and the same. Except there's a cash flow when it comes to used game sales.

Simple fix really. games should be locked to your profile like steam does it. Sure you can get around that and play single player still but games like MW2 would be useless should you buy it used.

sunil5276d ago

if used game sales is piracy, new game sales is day light robbery

raztad5276d ago

I strongly support (buy) used games. It's just a way to get the same game cheaper. I dont see the auto industry calling people "pirates" when buying a second/third hand car.

Illegal copies and used games arent definitely the same problem. An used game is just ONE used game on a single user hand, a downloaded game can be replicated at infinitum. If the game industry wants to sell more, they just need to lower the price. $50 (MAX) will boost sales for sure.

I find a bit interesting that Sony's full downloadable games for the PSP are even more expensive than regular retail games throught amazon. That doesn't make sense.

Sarcasm5276d ago

Too Human and Haze review scores quite similar.

LastDance5276d ago

I work in an Australian video game store. When we sell a new game - lets say COD MW2 for example - we will pay about $90Au for it and sell it for 109.95.

Pre owned games pay the bills. Any game dev complaining about preowned sales is nothing more than a coporate greed monger.

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Izzy123455276d ago

There's been piracy and game swapping since the beginning of the industry. I recall there was a local store that traded used for used back in the NES days and the industry has only grown since then.

The fact is that there are so many games now that there is no point in buying so many that you will play thru once and then leave on a shelf. Used games give those with tighter budgets the chance to play a title they may not ordinarily like and a chance for those who are disappointed in a title to get some money back.

Piracy is different no money exchanges hands and is detrimental to the industry and gamers who have to eat the losses. There is some lost revenue from used game sales but piracy is far worse.

I like Bioware as a dev they make great games but this sounds more like the whining of a greedy corporate suit rather than a game producer. Sure he has to make money but trashing the used game industry is not the way to go piracy is the problem.

jerethdagryphon5276d ago

i totally agree

being on said tight budjet rentals and buying used are a way to get games i might not play,

for reference i have a ps3 so im no game pirate,

and i buy games new if its one ive been lookingforward to ie uncharted..

with prices as they are few could buy many games a month.

FantasyStar5276d ago (Edited 5276d ago )

I'd think it's more than just cutting from used-games and disposable income. It's what each individual think a game is worth that'll decide whether they pay the initial price or wait for it to drop. The used-game market exists for a reason.

For example: a game like Uncharted 2 to me is not worth $60. Why? I will never ever play multiplayer component whatsoever, so why pay for things I will never used? I was able to pick up the game from Craigslist for $45 which I feel is more fair. Had retailers dropped the price, I would've picked it up new just the same.

And even more, developers have to strive to give us the best entertainment dollar if they want us to pay their prices. $60 is alot for a game you're going to play once and put away. Games need to have replay value on top of good gameplay and graphics. That would include offline MP, offline co-op. LAN support. Online co-op. How many players are supported. Believe it. When developers make great games that provide bang for the buck pricing, and content that overflows with entertainment. Developers and Publishers will profit regardless of piracy and used-games because most people will run out to buy it new anyways.

Piracy and used-games are mostly a problem when people feel a game isn't worth the asking price. I wish developers would stop overthinking the issue and playing the victim. Bang for buck pricing and huge replay value is the way to deterring piracy and used-game sales. Not DRM, and Episodic Content. They are fighting the system and are losing. They know it. Customers decide what they want and what the asking price is, not the developers or publishers.

If you're trying to break into the industry, set your prices low so people will give you a chance. If you're trying out a new idea, set your prices low so people will advertise for you. A game like Folklore is a genuine example of a fresh take on gameplay but fell short because of the $60 value and what was offered. I picked it up for $22 and couldn't be happier. I just wish games would debut at this price point. Makes impulsive purchases more likely. If I see a game that's out of my expectations and asks for more than I'm paying. I'm going to do research first before buying.

The only real victims out of this whole debate are the ones that paid $60 for a game they didn't like and cannot return it. This is why the used-game market exists for people to get some part of their investment back. This is why the used-game market will never go away.

Ravage275276d ago

as much as i agree with you...

"$60 is alot for a game you're going to play once and put away. Games need to have replay value on top of good gameplay and graphics. That would include offline MP, offline co-op. LAN support. Online co-op."

I think Uncharted2 offers most of that. Are you really going to play it only once? There are loads of unlockables and modifiers, i'm pretty sure the SP alone has good replay value - i must have played through UC1 at least 8 times, worth every cent

FantasyStar5276d ago

At the time back in October, I did feel that way. When MP is purely online-only. I'm discouraged from making the full purchase because I consider my purchases years from now when PS4 drops. Would Uncharted 2 servers still be up? And what about my own internet and such. I really did like Uncharted 2 and it's a top-tier game. When Borderlands came out, my Uncharted 2 life went away real quickly.

I got together with 3 other friends in my place and we LAN'd Borderlands in the backyard. I dunno, you got me rethinking about what I did now. Should I have paid full price then? Do I want to resell my used copy and get a new one to support ND? I did buy the first one at retail....

I think the penny-pincher in me would laugh at such thought.

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ChampIDC5276d ago

He's right from the perspective of a developer or publisher, as used games and piracy both net no money for them, but from a consumer's standpoint, used games are a legitimate purchase.

Revvin5276d ago

I imagine what really is frustrating to a developer is when large chains like GAME and Gamestation actively push used copies. 8 out of 10 times I've taken a new game to the counter to pay and they have asked if I'd prefer a used copy.

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270°

Microsoft’s Surface and Xbox hardware revenues take a big hit in Q3

Microsoft just posted the third quarter of its 2024 fiscal financial results. The software maker made $61.9 billion in revenue and a net income of $21.9 billion during Q3. Revenue is up 17 percent, and net income has increased by 20 percent.

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theverge.com
darthv721d 3h ago

Xbox content + services up 62% while hardware down 31%... seems about right with the way they tout you don't need the hardware to play. People can play on their phones or smart tv or other means. I don't hardly play on my consoles directly since getting devices like the logitech g-cloud and ps portal. Which is to also say I have been playing more digital than physical because of these devices.

solideagle14h ago

you should apply in MS PR team buddy, I think you will do a great job in my humble opinion :)

Sonic188111h ago

I thought darthv72 and Obscure_Observer already work for Microsoft 🤔

dveio11h ago

MS: "Xbox services and content without AB up 1%, with AB up 62%. Hardware down 31%. In total a loss of 350 mill."

darthv72: "Seems about right."

MS: "Excuse m ..."

darthv72: "I don't hardly play on my consoles directly."

MS:

Lightning776h ago

What he said was facts. How he plays games is no concern of you. Don't get too mad about it.

Cacabunga13h ago

I can tell people like you are an absolute minority..

If service is up means their fans and fanboys accepted this model and subscribed to it. The near future you will see a big decline because the service is saturated.

shinoff218312h ago

But that's been ms for years. When things aren't going their way they try to change the way things are said. For instance console sales are down, they stop telling how many sold instead telling us how many hours spent in halo or headshots. So it makes sense console sales down just say people are playing on more devices then previous. What they won't say is how many xbox players jumped ship to ps5.

Cacabunga11h ago

Hardware sales are so bad that Sony and Nintendo are blowing the sales off the water with their hardware.

If Xbox are losers, others aren’t..
Xbox already tried everything with Xbox live then subscriptions went down so much that they had to find something else. Their fans subscribed then reached saturation rather quickly.

Hardware and exclusive games is where it’s at! Keep gamers excited, announce decent software and people will support you

itsmebryan7h ago

@shin
Well keep it simple Sony 's operating income is down 26% and Microsoft's is up 32%. No MS spin there, just facts. 😉
Cheers

S2Killinit17m ago

MS is after diminishing consoles as a medium. They want to destroy this market because they couldnt win. MS’s vision is to dissolve console gaming.

romulus236h ago

Odd that a company that touts you dont need the hardware to play is already touting another console in the works.

darthv726h ago

They are not reliant on the HW but still want to maintain a presence (no matter how small) is a good thing. It shows commitment to the craft. It reminds me of SNK and how they made games for their own hardware (Neo Geo) while also making them for others because they knew there was a market to do so. They knew they would sell more to others but also sell to their own niche fan base.

TheEroica1m ago(Edited 0m ago)

Perfectly reasonable post down voted by insecure corporation friendly folk.... But not gamers. Real gamer want accessibility and ease of acquisition for all.... Company shills are the only ones still telling us that hardware locking people from games is good for us.

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purple10116h ago

Xbox hardware revenue tanks to lowest point of Xbox Series generation

Profchaos15h ago

I'm not surprised surface is struggling they aren't relevant anymore

DOMination-5h ago

In the last two years they've started exiting the consumer market altogether. All of the newest Surface products are business models only. They can't seem to work out what they want to do with it.

XBManiac15h ago

Too expensive hardware when others offer the same or more for less? Good work, Green Team.

SimpleDad14h ago(Edited 14h ago)

"Despite some early successes for Xbox games on rival platforms, Xbox hardware is down by a massive 31 percent this quarter."
"Without Activision Blizzard, Microsoft’s overall gaming revenue would have actually declined this quarter."
"Xbox content and services would have only been up a single percent without Activision Blizzard..."
"It looks like next quarter is going to be a similar story for gaming at Microsoft, too."

That is crazy... so A/B/K is carrying the whole Xbox gaming.
Oh and Microsoft will be fine. Windows, Office and Cloud are growing with each pc purchase.

purple10114h ago

Activision: "we gonna need a bigger rucksack/backpack please"

Microsoft: "why's that"

Activision: "to carry yo' weak ass'

Profchaos14h ago(Edited 14h ago)

Top brass have also wanted to start seeing returns on the 100 billion they have put into various Xbox related moves so seeing more multiplatform games is highly likely especially from abk

It's basically saying that PlayStation is the reason Xbox is afloat right now thinks to Ps5 versions of COD

Kornholic12h ago

So basically PS and PC gamers' money is keeping Xbox on life support.

MrDead5h ago

The only growth MS will get out of the console industry is if it supports it's rivals platforms. Xbox is a pointless machine now. I can see them on a big push for live next, and they won't give up on trying to buy Steam.

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140°

Why Monopolies In Gaming Must Not Be Allowed

As of right now, there are no monopolies in the games industry, and for the sake of the medium as a whole, they never should either.

thorstein1d 1h ago

Shouldn't be allowed in any field.

Inverno21h ago

And yet the biggest tech companies in America are essentially that. They buy up all the small comps only to kill them off and steal what they have, and if they can't buy em they bleed them to death.

jwillj2k420h ago

Eventually they’ll realize the value is with the employee not the company. Buying an IP means nothing if the people who contributed are let go. They’ll get it one day.

MrCrimson20h ago

tech is different because they buy threats and then kill them. Twitter bought Vine and did nothing with it. Despite people seemingly liking it. Could've had tiktok a decade before bytedance. go figure.

Zenzuu21h ago

Monopolies shouldn't be allowed regardless. Not just for gaming.

MrCrimson20h ago

They buy IPs not talent. That's why these buyouts never work and the IPs die. Right now it's too expensive to develop games - but I expect that to shift maybe as AI tools can make it easier. The best games have been indie games for awhile as big developers fuck their ips to death with "games as a service" -

70°

The INDIE Live Expo 2024 event is to feature over 100 game titles

INDIE Live Expo, Japan’s premiere online digital showcase series , will debut never-before-seen games & content updates across more than 100 titles on May 25th.