Does Microsoft Deserves Kudos For Addressing Many of The Concerns About the Xbox One?

Skewed and Reviewed has posted an opinion piece that suggests that Microsoft should be given kudos for the way they have handled the Xbox One after their early stumbles with the system.
The article praises their willingness to listen to consumers an change several features of the system pre-launch such as the DRM and Kinect requirement.

[xReDeMpTiOnx]

No they don't deserve kudos. They owe the gamers a reasonable consumer friendly system without speed bumps as such as they have had. The consumers is what makes sure that Microsoft has a market for consoles and they should be treated in such a way to continue having a successful console market.

If anything they owe consumers an apology for the way they presented the Xbox to consumers basically tell then they were SOL if they didnt agree with the policies.

[golding89]

Spin it any way you want but MS could have easily go with the mandatory kinect sell the system that way. Overtime those people who wants to play xbox games would have had to deal with it. but the fact that they did address them says they are listening.

Some will say it's pre-order sales but bottom line is everyone company wants to make money.

[Godmars290]

"Spin it any way you want but MS could have easily go with the mandatory kinect sell the system that way."

If they had, if they had kept with most of their original plans, they would have been looking at a lot of negative backlash. That there were - are - some people who would have bought the console regardless is besides the point.

Just as it is that some will continue to denounce or refuse to forgive MS for their mistakes. Just like some still don't forgive Sony for an offhanded comment made years ago.

[Ashlen]

Would have had to deal with it by buying a PS4 you mean. Which is pretty much what happened, and why PS4 is basically outselling Xbox by 40% in North America.

Listening would have been making the change around the time they were firing Adam Orth.

[NukaCola]

MS should of admitted they messed up but they just spin PR and inadvertently dig deeper holes. Even though the PS3 was successful Sony still came out this generation excited yet humble. MS was arrogant and open about how little they cared for games. Now they are clearly are caving into whatever anyone says because they were looking at drowning in their own mess with the crap they pulled out the gate. If they acted the least bit apologetic I would of been more open to giving them a second shot at my wallet, but it's MS and they came into this gen using their American gaming lead to push their non gaming agenda.

[Deadpoolio]

No it doesn't say that they are listening it actually sounds pretty pathetic in a way.....They knew they were and still are getting crushed by PS4 preorders, so rather than have a moderate launch they felt the need to show NO faith and NO conviction about their original "vision" of their product.

Granted they are plenty of Microsoft defenders like you I am assuming who will continue to eat up everything they do even though none of you can even begin to explain just what their vision is anymore....

Anyone with half a brain would actually be a bit turned off by their blatant pandering, and constant need to play catchup with Sony. Which is literally all they are doing...The last biggest sign of weakness they could show would be to remove the Kinect....

Like it or not fanboys Microsoft got caught with their pants down in February, they assumed Sony wouldn't release until 2014 considering they didn't even start looking at their next machine until 2010..You can't even make sense in your comment, you say they are listening and then cancel yourself out with the preorder comment which is EXACTLY why they've done more 180s than a Russian Ballerina....

They are a crackhead looking for a fix, eventually they are going to start offering hand jobs and head for a sale all just to avoid having a successful but smaller launch.

IF they had an actual vision for the XBO which I seriously doubt they ever really had, they would have stuck to the plan not lied or been shady and actually explained it, went out of their way to make sure people knew what they vision was.....But they didn't really have one they just wanted to see what they could do and how far they could go to take away control from the consumer.....

Funny that they claimed all those restrictions and DRM were needed for a "digital" future, considering that Sony has been pushing a digital future for the last 3 years constantly having 90% of games on PS3 available Day 1 digitally....I'm sitting on at least 65 full retail PS3 games right now and it doesn't require that I be hammered with DRM and restrictions

[TomShoe]

You don't get kudos for solving problems if you caused them in the first place.

That's all that needs to be said.

[stage88]

Not at all.

Why thank them for things they should of done in the first place?
They should be apologising to us.

[andreasx]

they didn't have the guts to go through with their vision of the future of consoles. I don't want to buy a console from a company that doesn't have a spine and don't stand for their actions.

[MysticStrummer]

"Spin it any way you want but MS could have easily go with the mandatory kinect sell the system that way."

As long as you have to buy it, it's still mandatory.

OT - I don't know if kudos is the right word, but the number of changes they've made in such a short time is amazing, especially when they said some of those changes were impossible. They've flipped more than one unflippable switch since the reveal.

[Sitdown]

@Tomshoe
So if you cause a problem, and decide to right your wrong instead of just letting your error stand.....you don't get any kudos. So in your mind, anybody who turns their life around for the better should never get praised. I can applaud somebody for trying to change, so needless to say I disagree....on another note. The xbox one has not even been released, so technically there is not an error at this point......just abstract ideas that could have led to an error.

[Kryptix]

Before the Xbox One reveal, I gave Microsoft the benefit of the doubt against all the leaks and rumors. That they were changing their console for the majority of their fans which were against DRM for months beforehand. And even the month of the reveal MS didn't admit to their mistake and made it a "scenario" which would stick if pre order numbers were high.

Microsoft deserves no kudos for ignoring their fans in the beginning.

[ABizzel1]

No, Yes, No.

No, because they shouldn't have pulled what they did to begin with and we wouldn't be here discussing it now.

Yes, because they did change most of the things gamers were against, regardless of if it was for gamers, or because they feared being outsold.

No, because with each change came the loss of a feature that gamers wanted and were looking forward, and at the end of the day all this is still up to M$ so if they want to implement all these things back in when they get a decent install base they can or on a positive note they could bring the few good things back.

[redwin]

All of u think that MS is not a customer friendly company but you all forget that lots of people did preorder the Xbox One, me included. Lots of people were going to buy it anyway. All my friends are getting it, we have not preordered games because we will download all the games. Us true MS players, are not happy with the shell they are going to sell us now because all the retroverted customers. Many people did not want a next gen machine, they just wanted to upgrade their hardware. And I wish MS stops listening to them.

[slivery]

Exactly they want their money and they saw they were going to lose a great deal of it if they didn't start buckling down.

I don't believe the whole they care about listening to consumers bit at all. The consumers were there complaining about these policies long before the system was even released, they didn't care or listen then did they. They only started changing their policies when they realized holy shit.. People actually hate the system in the true sense of the word hate.

No one in their life let alone in gaming history has seen the public have such a strong distaste for any product. Microsoft knew since that hate was not fading at all, they had to actually change. It wasn't for the consumer but only to secure their profits in the future and appear to care about the consumer.

Like I said they had plenty of time to listen and see peoples concerns before the Xbox One was even announced.

If they truly cared about what the consumer thought they would have made the Xbox One what it is now right out of the gate, listening and seeing those concerns before hand. f course they didn't and did everything backwards because they simply don't care what the consumers thinks unless it starts to deal with their money.

If they knew they could have kept it the way it was without all that back lashing they would have. Plain and simple but I am glad for once people finally stood their ground and showed the company it isn't right.

Sadly people don't do that enough and I can't necessarily say we as a group of thinking individuals finally stood ground a console gaming issue is the greatest thing in the world but I guess we have to start with baby steps. Cause there are a lot more companies and people in the world screwing us over other than Microsoft but I'll give it more time for people to care more about that instead of a small issue like a gaming system.

[Magicite]

Stop defending MS like You work for them.

[JokesOnYou]

Stop trolling MS news like You work for sony.

-Anyway the only kudos micro is getting from me is for Ryse, DR3, Killer Instinct, and Forza5 because these are the games I can't wait to play first on my X1.

X1 would have been better off longterm with some of the old policies so I think its taken a small step back, but OK they had to appease more folks which I believe more and more everyday were actually many vocal fanboys that were never ever going to buy an X1 and were just jealous micro were actually taking the lead to bring us closer to DD console model which is where the industry is headed anyway. Always on, game sharing, kinect all have some unique benefits, even some that constantly hate know its true but they won't admit it, they will just follow the pack and pretend it was all bad. Oh but just wait, when sony does it then it will be great for the industry and gamers.

Good time to be a gamer, we got Gamescom then a tough long wait 'til Nov, and then all the talking won't matter.

[indysurfn]

There was once this theif that got caught trying to steal a HDTV and some video games. This was no ordinary thief, once this thief stole from you, you would never own a HDTV, video game again. You could only rent it, and most likely you could never own a cell phone, or computer again. Only rent it.

Thank God the Police caught the thief red handed! So instead of praising the thief for putting down the hdtv and video games while at gun point. Lets praise the police!

It's kinda silly to say the thief addressed our concerns. Maybe the thief was 'concerned about their own existence'.

[rainslacker]

@sitdown

I wouldn't praise a career criminal who decided to turn their life around to get back in people's good graces if they felt no remorse over their initial criminal activities. Far from it. I would hold them to their actions until they proved they that they actually knew what they did wrong, and could admit it without trying to justify it all at the same time, and again, seem remorseful about it. If said criminal was turning himself around in the interest of money...say for a reality TV show, I would still see them as the swindling criminal they are.

MS aren't criminals in my mind...at least not in regards to the X1, but if you're going to use that analogy, work it through to the end.

When MS can come out and say, "We were wrong" or a simple, "We're sorry for being condescending pricks"(paraphrasing), then maybe people will be willing to forgive and forget.

@redwin

Perhaps you can tell us what a "True MS player" is.

[CuddlyREDRUM]

They could have gone with it, and nobody would have bought it.

Saying things like "every company wants to make money" only goes so far, and is a motto that sets all consumers up for getting ripped off.

If they were listening they wouldn't have it set up like that in May and at E3. I wouldn't trust them with anything at this point, especially new hardware.

[n4rc]

Ummm... What?

They don't owe anyone anything.. This is business.. Not recess at the playground

If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it.. But they don't owe anyone a certain product or an apology for offering said product

[avengers1978]

Just like nobody owes MS anything.

[scott182]

Companies go out of business being bull headed and greedy.... No they don't owe anyone anything, but they may want to try to not come off as such in the future.

[HammadTheBeast]

It's business, you put on a happy mask and take the hits, otherwise you los out on sales.

[n4rc]

I'm not going to argue the ethics of it all.. Not enough bubbles for that.. Lol

But Microsoft has always done its own thing.. And alot of times, it pays off for consumers.. Sometimes things don't pan out (cough..windows me..coughcough).. Even the surface isn't doing very well.. But look at their earnings reports.. They aren't going out of business anytime soon..

Millions of people use Microsoft's services daily.. Just because they don't take to the internet to defend themselves doesn't mean they don't exist..

[greenlantern2814]

Incorrect just like all businesses they owe their customers everything. Since without people who pay them for their products they wouldn't have a company at all, companies need their customers support more than the customer needs them.

[Sitdown]

You are wrong, a business does not owe you anything, unless they have promised you something....Now is it in the best interest of the business to do what is best for their consumers? Most likely.

[CuddlyREDRUM]

"Hurray for huge corporations"

[SDS Gamerfiend]

No because they shouldn't have tried that bull in the first place!

[TomShoe]

@Golding Quit lurking the pending section. It's annoying to hear your fanboy self every time I open an X1 article.

[cannon8800]

They don't deserve any kind of "pat on the back" They're not suppose to hide anything from the consumers. And I find it extremely sad that they didn't want to address all the features that needed you to pay to use. Just to show that they already knew that we weren't gonna like it. When you know something is bad and you still do it you know there's no place to hide your face afterwards.

[KarrBOMB]

@ReDeMpTiOn

I agree with you, MS does not deserve kudos for their changes. They made those changes because the pre-orders were suffering and the fact that long time consumers were abandoning their ship. Not because it was what gamers preferred. I understand that companies need to be profitable, but the changes they were going to implement was out of greed, nothing more. The extreme back lash was just an early insight of what they would face had changes not been made.

None the less, I'm glad the changes were made. Not just because I play MS games as well as PS, but because the competition is good for gamers. So either company failing would have impacts on the remaining gaming community.

[Legion21]

How is this suppose to happen if they don't correct their mistakes? No company is without flaws and every company is it to make money. I don't think they should be faulted for changing what everyone had complained about.

[ovnipc]

REDMPTIONX Fuk off TROLL. M$ fixed everything people complain about, exept Kinect and kinect should be standard.

[DigitalRaptor]

I find it kind of mind-bending that a group of people can so easily forgive a company that has been planning and implementing (at the core of their console) for many, many years all these anti-consumer measures that would have impacted your rights and the way they treat you, not for one generation, but forever.

I could understand if there was just one of these anti-consumer issues, but sadly there were multiple ones and still are some that they're clinging on to and hoping people don't want to question. So how can people trust them after the decisions that they made that they knew how it would impact the industry and consumer rights?

And Gareth, you really think it was Microsoft "listening to the consumers"? If that was the case they would have responded to the overwhelming negative chatter from rumours months and months before they decided to power on with their reveal. A reveal that in fact turned out to not only confirm said rumours, but to be more non-gaming based than about games. No, it was a desperate response to what is fiscal responsibility, not a "change of heart" and the way in which they treat their consumers.

Microsoft reversed policies to try and get back on track, but they're still the same Microsoft. They deserve kudos for any innovation that benefits a gaming console, a deep focus on gaming and things that consumers will benefit from, DEFINITELY not anti-consumer intentions and practices.

[Garethvk]

I have zero doubt that money like everything else in business was the main factor. But since consumers can only voice with their wallets and since the people made it loud and clear what they would and would not accept, I just found it interesting that the company who has largely ignored the consumer base finally did something about it.

It was also a typo on my part there was supposed to be a Does added prior and I have fixed it.
I am still taking a wait and see on the Xbox One but since we have been listing the issues from it from day one, I wanted to be fair and say look, the company is changing their usual tactics and regardless of the reasons, they are making changes that the fans have asked for.

[ShwankyShpanky]

Seriously... if I was trying to sell steak sandwiches with a hearty horse dung spread, should I be given kudos when I acknowledge I'll sell more by removing the dung?

[OC_MurphysLaw]

I don't think they deserve "kudos" for addressing the elements that many complained about. That said, I don't think people who complained about the original policies should be complaining about MS doing a 180 and fixing those very isssues they were just weeks ago bitching about.

[pacosanchez88]

no, they dont deserve kudos for being so out of touch with their customers to implement all these "features" that most people didnt want. and that they didnt change their mind when
-there was backlash in febuary at the rumor of a always online console
-they revealed the console and everyone ridiculed it
-e3, when the PS4 further cemented its lead

a week after e3, once the preorder numbers came back, THATS when they changed there mind. on always online, on indie support, on installing the disc, on kinect, everything. they changed it all when the ps4 had a lead in pre orders. that doesnt win them kudos in my book. only in their pocketbook.

i wouldve bought a XB1 some time in the future, but after seeing how MS wasnt at all confident or certain about the future and vision of their product, ive lost all confidence in them as well.

[rainslacker]

I agree. The new policies are praise worthy I guess. No one is saying the new policies are really bad, except maybe the MS fan boys who actually wanted the old ones. I mean they should have figured all that out before the reveal, but what's done is done in that regard. Stupid move on MS part considering how much focus testing the must have done. The fact the reveal appealed to almost no one shows they had some terrible focus groups.

However, it really hasn't been that long since the reversals. Only a few weeks now and 4 major changes to the system. The wound is still fresh, and people are going to hold a grudge.

I know the internet makes things seem like everything happened a really long time ago, but it's just human nature to not trust something or someone that pissed you off completely. Take any ex-gf/bf you may have had in your life. Forgiveness takes time, and people like to vent.

I think the part that's really hanging up people from moving on is that MS hasn't really shown that they even really realize why people were pissed off. I understand the need to spin things for PR's sake, but would it kill them to just say that their vision was obviously not in the interest of the consumer, and perhaps even apologize for that? It did Sony wonders when they acknowledged how they screwed up their PS3 launch with their arrogance, and yet people still bring it up.

Basically, MS needs to give people closure on this matter. I know it may sound silly, but that's what it is. It would be better for MS, in the long run, in my opinion, if they are the ones that provide that closure. If people do it on their own, they usually end up not caring one bit, and that's not good for MS.

[SkullBlade169]

No, they just did what they had to do to prevent the product from completely bombing.

[Legion21]

As all successful companies do.

[CuddlyREDRUM]

Most successful companies wouldn't set themselves up for such criticism and out of touch PR that nearly sank the Xbox brand.

Your comment is like saying after BP dumped all the oil in the Gulf they cleaned it up... just like all successful companies do.

[thrust]

I don't care, I was getting the Xbox no matter what, Xbox live makes it worth it for me.

[jessupj]

Well right now on my PS3 I'm enjoying dedicated servers, heaps of free games every month, and I don't have virtually every single app behind a paywall.

But even with all that, amazing as those feature are, I wouldn't be prepared to get F'ed in the ass just to have it.

So what are you enjoying so much that you ARE happily prepared to be bent over and violated?

[kingmushroom]

yes they do, but not my $$

[No_Limit]

Yes.

[Mr Tretton]

I'm just done with the Xbox. The only use for me is controllers for PC.

PC and Playstation. For life.

[Fireseed]

So the person naming themselves as Mr Tretton is trying to pass off as having had an Xbox at some point... 2/10

[christocolus]

Lmao...:D

[Mr Tretton]

I have an Xbox 360 right now. If I was some fanboy I wouldn't even bring one in my home.

[thrust]

Wow people have issues, life is going to really bother you!

[Jazz4108]

I have no problem with a company who changes things and listens to there customers and has every right to make changes to unofficial specs since the console has not even been released. If they did this after the final specs and release then the 180 criticiszm would be justified but right now its still a work in progress for both sony and ms. Quit the hate and do something benificial. I know whos daddy has a bigger wallet/sarcasm

[Manic2014]

With that User name and profile pic i'm only going to assume you are a die hard PS Fanboy.

[Mr Tretton]

I've been here since '07. Anyone who knows me here knows better. I like Jack Tretton. Is that a crime?

[tokugawa]

no it is not a crime to like jack tretton.

yet, it is slightly bizarre that someone would like and have the photo of basically a company suit for their avatar photo. plus choose his name as a psuedo.

so what is so special about ol jackie boy? apart from the fact that he works for sony..

[Mr Tretton]

He seems like a nice guy and is verbally quick on his feet. But whatever, I just randomly chose something. Internet names and avs are not serious business.

[devwan]

@Mr Tretton "Internet names and avs are not serious business."

When I read what you wrote, I pictured you doing it like this:

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW50...

[Manic2014]

Not Saying its a crime but having a profile pic and the name of the president of SCEA as your user name made me assume you are a huge Playstation Fan..........

[Manic2014]

@Mr Tretton

Though it seems from all your comments you are purely a Sony fan........

[Mr Tretton]

@MMEHTA Uhh, no. First page of my comments in my profile is mostly about PC. At the forums I talk mostly PC there too. I barely even talk about Playstation lately. Haven't played my PS3 or 360 much over the past two years. I'm all about PC these days. Not getting a PS4 anytime soon either. Not interested yet.

I'm not a Playstation fanboy, sorry to disappoint. They're all over N4G though if you're looking for one. Cheers.

[Garethvk]

Still a wait and see for me but I am much more encouraged now then I was. I want to see a stable unit that does not have the hardware issues that plagued the 360 and exclusives aside from Halo and Gears of War that I will be excited to play that will justify owning the system. Killer Instinct and Ryse were fun when I saw them at Comic Con, but not enough for me personally to justify the purchase. Now in a few months if all is good and the titles are coming, no problem. I am more inclined now then I was a month ago though.

[swishersweets20031]

As willy wonka put it.. "YOU GET NOTHING"!!!!

[firelogic]

They don't deserve kudos for reversing idiotic policies. Hey, I promise to murder innocent people, steal from the poor, and pee on all dogs in my neighborhood. Actually, no. I take that back I'm not going to do any of those things. Praise me!!

[Master-H]

Kudos for not doing those things /s

[jessupj]

I genuinely very confused when I hear people say Sony fanboys are the worst when Xbox fanboys defend a company like MS.

[rainslacker]

When I read your statement I think to myself, "I'm glad you didn't go and do any of those things...for many reasons".

Then I think you are probably crazy and I should avoid you because you really seem to have issues to even think such a thing. I mean...what did that dog ever do to you?

Just my two cents.

[cyclindk]

Really does depend...

Many like to take "sides" with a company no matter what, but it comes down to what were the intentions.

In this case, what was the reasoning/motivation behind the change, which determines whether the efforts are commendable or simply self-interested.

Yes EVERY company has a bottom line they need to tend to, but there is such a thing as customer relations and perception that has a less tangible value/worth to take into consideration.

Some companies choose not to.

I often get the impression that Microsoft (or rather the corporate decision makers) have been less interested than most other companies with the needs/wants of its consumers.

And generally do not follow through with most of what they preach, which is deplorable by any standard really.

[PimpDaddy]

Um the majority of the members of the N4G community give KUDOS to Sony for listening to their consumers. Yet when Microsoft does the same thing it is seen as a negative? What is wrong with you people. Take off your HATE goggles and give credit where credit is due.

How quick were all of you to forgive Sony for a $600.00 PS3 at launch, 6 month delay in the US and Japan. 1 year delay in Europe. Serious drought of games in the first year and horrible 3rd party support because of the difficult to program for Cell processor. No force feedback at launch. Lack of support for PS Eye or PS Move. PSN issues. Etc...

Sony took 7 years to correct their mistakes and launch a console like the PS4. Microsoft is trying to accomplish the same fixing of their issues in 7 months.

Neither company is perfect. They both are ONLY interested in gaining our money. I'm just saying it's not fair to forgive one and persecute the other.

[Garethvk]

That was well said. I think the biggest issue is history as I said, and you so well illustrated, Sony had issues but they fixed them so people were very eager to forgive them plus they were seen as having a good track record due to the PS 2 system and other products. Microsoft was seen as a company who simply did not get it and did what they wanted and solved issues by throwing money at p.r. firms, purchasing exclusives, and firsts. They hired folks to scour the web to discredit or remove negative postings and to post self-generated praise for the console. While that is par for the course for them, the fact that they made so many big changes in the system so quickly is a new direction for them. Yes money is the bottom line as had the changes not been made they could have been in a serious hole from the start but they are at least making what I would say are serious efforts to try to fix the issues and change the way things have been done which often was here it is take it or leave it, we know best, and if you do not get with us, your on the outside looking in.

[GraveLord]

Sony's issues were purely hardware related. Microsofts issues are just pure greed and arrogance.

Why are you even bringing up stories from 2006? The Sony then is much different than the Sony of today.

Of course it took Sony 7 years to fix the PS3s mistakes. Would you rather they abandoned the PS3? I'm sure you would....

Of course both are only interested in our money. Sony is just the best at doing in a way that doesn't piss people off by forcing stuff on us like DRM or Kinect.

You say it took Sony 7 years to learn from the PS3.....it seems Microsoft didn't learn from Sony though. $399 PS4 compared to a $499 Xbox One. It's clear who is thinking about the consumers here.

[ElementX]

Sony is now charging for multiplayer when it was free before. They're just as greedy as MS.

[vallencer]

So the microsoft of 7 years ago is the same but sony isn't?? That's asinine to think that haha. And 500 for a system isn't too steep to be honest. Yes 400 is better but if they decided to take out the kinect then they could drop it but they won't take it out and i don't think they should.

And as far as the DRM thing goes. If you download ANY pc game or play pc games in general then DRM isn't an issue because you'd be used to it. I think that sony should force the eye on people because now developers are have to decide what to make their game for and since everyone won't have an eye or move then odds are games won't be made for it and its a wasted investment in money.

[DragonKnight]

@PimpDaddy: "How quick were all of you to forgive Sony for a $600.00 PS3 at launch, 6 month delay in the US and Japan. 1 year delay in Europe. Serious drought of games in the first year and horrible 3rd party support because of the difficult to program for Cell processor. No force feedback at launch. Lack of support for PS Eye or PS Move. PSN issues. Etc.."

The difference between everything you've listed and the Xbox One is something called business decisions. The $600 price is on Sony for including Blu-Ray, 6 month delay is not on Sony because they had no way of knowing there would be manufacturing problems beforehand, games is not on Sony it's on the developers unless you're talking first party, horrible 3rd party support is again not on Sony when you consider that devs knew about the Cell processor WELL BEFORE any of us did, force feedback was a legal issue, lack of support for PSEye or Move was never a problem for anyone, and if by PSN issues you mean the hack then again that's not on Sony.

Forced connectivity, forced dependence on Kinect, the almost complete abolishment of the used games market on the Xbox One, no headset, the lack of support for current gen peripherals for the Xbox One, these are just some examples of decisions Microsoft chose to make and didn't have thrust upon them by circumstance or necessity. That's why there is a difference between forgiving for the "mistakes" of the PS3 and forgiving for the "business decisions" of the Xbox One.

[vallencer]

Sony didn't have to have blu-ray they chose to do that and lose out on money while jacking the price up that's called a business decision. The 6 month delay isn't their fault that you're right about. The games are indeed sonys fault considering they could've helped more with the development of them but they chose not to. Again that's called a business decision that isn't a mistake. Lack of support for the eye and move is a problem for the people who actually wanted to use it and yes there are people out there trust me. Not supporting either of those devices is indeed a business decision. And as far as the PSN issue goes that is COMPLETELY sonys fault. How could that not be their fault?? It was THEIR servers that got hacked not anyone elses. If their security was better then its possible it may have never happened.

I think you should reevaluate how you come to the conclusion of business decisions because you clearly don't know what business decisions are.

[Jazz4108]

Lets not forget how great sonys doing with their handheld. I just loved getting screwed out of 300 on the pspgo which sony first tried to take away retail games.

[PimpDaddy]

95% of all games on the 360 did just fine with 1 disc on DVD so Blu-Ray was a "business" decision made my Sony that not only caused the PS3 to delay it's launch and have limited quantities at first. But it also made the console $200.00 more MSRP above the 360 and caused massive financial losses in the multi billions for Sony. Please tell me you don't actually think Blu-Ray was necessary and that Sony "didn't" force it on their consumers.

The Cell processor was also a "business" decision made my Sony that cost them multi billion dollar losses and loss of 3rd party support. While also adding on to the costs and time of development for ALL 3rd party developers. Ask companies such as EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Capcom, Konami, etc how they feel about programming for the PS3. I'm sure they really loved Sony's business decision.

Force Feedback was simply Sony NOT wanting to play by the rules and paying the royalty fees for using the patent. Whats worse is they lied about it by saying we needed 6-Axis instead and that it "WASN'T" possible to include force feedback and 6-Axis in the same controller. Only to find out with the DS3 that in fact it was always possible.

Did we forget that the PS3 also didn't include a headset or the ability to use PS2 peripherals? I can go on and on DragonKnight.

Please stop using double standards...

[DragonKnight]

@Vallencer: Blu-Ray - I covered that.

Games - Why should Sony help 3rd party developers develop their games when no one else does that and Sony would get nothing from doing so? It's not Sony's responsibility to ensure that 3rd party devlopers, who received the dev kits long before the console was even announced to the public and had time to develop games, can create decent quality games. It's on the developers. If that's a business decision, it's not one that screwed over gamers.

PSEye and Move - Not a problem. The amount of people that wanted to use it is dwarfed by the amount of people who don't care and that's evidenced by the amount of people that don't want to have Kinect forced on them. PSEye and Move were merely options for the PS3, not integral. And the lack of said support did nothing to screw over gamers or ruin the quality of product put out on the PS3.

PSN - Yeah, let's blame a hacking victim for the hack and not the hackers. I could post so much about this one issue but it's pointless to do so because enough people lack basic sense to understand that Sony didn't hack themselves so it's not their fault in any way. If the Pentagon can be hacked, what makes you think the online service of a video game console is somehow safer?

I think you shouldn't even try to use the term "business decisions" because you didn't use any except for Blu Ray that have a direct correlation to Sony's plans.

@Jazz: And what does that have to do with the PS3?

@PimpDaddy: Re-Read what I said. I said Blu-Ray was on Sony did I not? Yep, I did.

Cell Processor: The Processor itself was a business decision, the lack of games was not. Plenty of studios were able to make incredible games with this supposedly too difficult of a processor, but let's forget them in favour of blaming Sony for the lack of ability of the studios that couldn't make great games. It's interesting that you bring up companies like Ubisoft and Konami when they made excellent games like the Assassin's Creed series and MGS4 on a supposedly too difficult platform.

Force Feedback - And exactly what part of that legal problem screwed gamers over and was a business decision? The company that owned the patent sued Sony and Sony was legally not able to include Force Feedback in the DS3 until that suit was resolved. The suit didn't even involve the PS3, it involved the PS2. So explain how that is equal to Microsoft forcing DRM on everyone.

Headsets and Peripherals - For headsets, Microsoft has their own standard which they were going to throw out the window, Sony did not. There also was no standard for that going from the PS2 to the PS3 so your inclusion of that is pointless. As for peripherals, the hardware input differences between the PS2 and PS3 are leagues greater than they are for the Xbox 360 to the Xbox One. A third party solution was necessary for PS2 peripherals, it's not the same for the Xbox One.

I think you need to re-evaluate everything. DRM and Forced Connectivity and Kinect dependence are a choice Microsoft made that are leagues more anti-consumer than a $600 console with all the bells and whistles. A $600 console didn't take away anyone's rights or create a situation in which you couldn't play single player games, or even use the console at all without a connection.

[PimpDaddy]

I'm NOT defending the DRM or 24-hour internet connection limit for offline gaming DragonKnight. I'm actually glad they reversed those policies. I'm also glad they are including a headset. I'm just saying that we are ALL happy Sony learned things the hard way and did much better with the PS4.

So why cant you guys be happy that Microsoft is learning their lessons the hard way and also making changes to appease their consumers?

I'm not going to argue with you on the Kinect thing. Personally for an extra $100.00 MSRP I don't mind having a 1080P capable camera hooked up to my TV so I can Skype with my children that live out of state and also for my little 2 1/2 year old to play family games that don't require a complicated controller.

Do I wish the XB1 was $100.00 cheaper? YES
Would I buy Kinect if it was optional? YES

As it stands right now I'm probably going to wait until a few months after launch to decide which console to get first. If PSN and the DualShock controller are improved enough that they really compete with what XBL and the XBox controller then I might just get a PS4 first. But I know eventually I will own both and possibly a WiiU if Nintendo ever gets their act together.

I just can't understand how others such as yourself constantly attack Microsoft for certain things and then defend Sony for doing the same thing. Where does all this HATE come from? I know I used to fight with Sony loyalists during the PS3's early days due to Blu-Ray and the high price tag. But I still ended up getting a PS3 when the price was reduced because I wanted access to as many games as possible.

It's ok to have preferences. But this BLIND hatred and fanboyism is a bit too much man.

[DragonKnight]

Your whole argument started as an expression of bafflement that people can forgive Sony but not Microsoft when the two did not have the same "mistakes" to forgive. One company had mistakes that were immensely anti-consumer and the other did not. That's why it's easier to forgive one over the other.

I mean, you say that people attack Microsoft and yet Sony do the same thing and get away with it. Where's Sony's DRM that took away rights? Where's Sony's dependence on online connection that locks out single player gaming if you don't connect? Where's Sony's dependence on a peripheral for the basic functioning of the console? The second you can provide any of that then you'll have a legitimate point. But you can't provide any of that because it simply doesn't exist.

I wrote a blog congratulating Microsoft on their final reversal. In my opinion, from a strictly hardware basis, no one has any reason to attack the Xbox One. The arena now moves into games and services which is a more subjective area overall. Do I think MS deserve kudos for addressing the concerns? Partly yes and partly no. Yes because now the Xbox One is a real competitor. No because MS' former vision was hugely anti-consumer and people should question whether or not they still have it in them to try something like that, or worse, in the future.

But right now, today, you can't even begin to compare what you consider the PS3's mistakes to what the mistakes were with the Xbox One. The two aren't even remotely the same.

[vallencer]

Well if sony shouldn't help 3rd party companies make games then they shouldn't have made the cell processor. Why not teach 3rd party companies on how to use it?? Why not give them a little extra money to help them develop it? It is sonys fault in every way for making the cell processor. They could've gotten something easier to use then that piece of crap.

If you're not going to support a device you made, pseye and move, then whats the point of making it?? It doesn't matter how many people play it you should support it because people have bought it. Otherwise there isn't a point in making the product in the first place.

Also as far as the PS hack goes yes it is sonys fault for letting hackers hack them. And it would also be the pentagons fault if someone hacked them. Either have better systems in place or hire people who can counteract what has happened.

[xRedline]

DragonKnight, you're hilarious man.

I suppose $599 isn't anti-consumer at all. Nope, it was all sunshine and rainbows for the consumers.

The PSPGo was totally all about giving people rights with digital copies of games.

Sony is never forcing DRM upon consumers. That's ridiculous! Cinavia doesn't exist, people are smoking too many drugs. PSN Pass never happened, people are imagining things!

Making development on your console harder than it should be was also a brilliant thing to do. Them lazy developers are such a nuisance. How dare they not expect a complicated development process. They need more hair on their chest!

And poor Sony. They're the victims of the PSN hack and it wasn't their fault! Never mind the fact that they house personal information about their consumers, Sony is the victim. Never mind their security wasn't up to scratch to protect against such attacks. That's just what happens sometimes. It's not Sony's fault for not properly protecting personal information.

^Yeah, that's exactly how you sound.

[DragonKnight]

@xRedline: "I suppose $599 isn't anti-consumer at all. Nope, it was all sunshine and rainbows for the consumers."

An expensive device is not anti-consumer, it's merely expensive. Anti-consumer is something that can't be overcome unless the entity initiating it changes that policy. And given the expense of buying an iPhone, a PS3 was certainly never anti-consumer.

"The PSPGo was totally all about giving people rights with digital copies of games."

Irrelevant to the discussion. This discussion began as a categorization of the mistakes made by either the PS3 or the Xbox One. It's not surprising you can't contain your attempts to the subject at hand though.

"Sony is never forcing DRM upon consumers. That's ridiculous! Cinavia doesn't exist, people are smoking too many drugs. PSN Pass never happened, people are imagining things!"

Cinavia is an anti-piracy measure that you would never know about unless you are attempting to pirate something. Explain how that is an equally anti-consumer offense to the Xbox One's 24 hour connection or mandatory Kinect dependence that would prevent you from fully using the gaming capabilities of the console?

PSN Pass is not something I can argue with. However it still didn't prevent you from playing games, so again it's not the same.

"Making development on your console harder than it should be was also a brilliant thing to do. Them lazy developers are such a nuisance. How dare they not expect a complicated development process. They need more hair on their chest!"

Your childish sarcasm aside, you didn't make a correlation whose result was removing consumer rights, preventing the consumer from using their product, or in any way was similar to what Microsoft had done. The issue at hand is how can people not forgive MS if they forgave Sony and the answer is the difference between any mistakes from the PS3 never resulted in the removal of rights or the locking out of the basic function of the device.

"And poor Sony. They're the victims of the PSN hack and it wasn't their fault! Never mind the fact that they house personal information about their consumers, Sony is the victim. Never mind their security wasn't up to scratch to protect against such attacks. That's just what happens sometimes. It's not Sony's fault for not properly protecting personal information."

I request a link to any legitimate and proven testimony from any individual who had their identity and/or credit card compromised. I also request a link to any legitimate piece of information that details an online service that is impossible to hack. When you find those things, we can talk. Until then, Sony was a victim of a hack and people like you just can't accept that and love to go on a Sony hate crusade with no real legitimacy behind it.

Bottom line, you can never find anything wrong with the PS3 that equates to the anti-consumerism that was the Xbox One. It doesn't exist.

@vallencer: You are extremely naive if you believe Sony should just give away money to developers, or that there is an impregnable online service. It is pointless to discuss anything with someone who holds those kinds of ideologies due to an insurmountable level of naivety.

[DigitalRaptor]

What am I reading here from loyalists and apologists?

People trying to mark a price point of a console as being "anti-consumer". That's ridiculous. Kinect is not required and XB1 is still $499. Blu-ray was required and was $599. With both, you had no choice but to front the cost of their decisions, but MS has the audacity to paint their feature as essential, and then proves it won't end up being required, but you still have to front the cost of something you know isn't required for your console to function and to play games.

You want examples of anti-consumerism that span a decade?

Microsoft charging for P2P online connectivity for all of their consoles. P2P - imagine that. Don't need to. They did it.
-

Microsoft charging for free apps that are available for free on every other platform and device. Disgraceful padding to a service like that is disrespectful and a disgrace to even imagine they are justifying it as "added value".

Microsoft putting 90% of the XB1's features behind an annual paywall including free-to-play, free apps (too many to list) and features that don't even need it such as a DVR and OneGuide for TV.

Bashing Sony for adding a required online multiplayer fee, and calling them "greedy"? Let's analyse. Free apps are free. Free-to-play is free. Cross game chat and party chat is free. Auto-updates are free. Video chat is free. Internet browser is free. All these things are free, as they should be. That as well as the PS+ subscription being the best value of any gaming service out there next to Steam. Online multiplayer, against the rest of the benefits? Anti-consumer... yeah, sure.
-

Microsoft launching a console that they knew had huge issues, and denied such genuine consumer issues once they appeared until it became a possible juridicial matter for them.
-

Microsoft pushing ads on a premium service. Microsoft designing the XB1 with advertisements in mind, as trying to change the ball game and personalise ads to make you want to click on them and make them money. http://www.sticktwiddlers.c... You think XB1 ads are going to be any less common than on the 360? Read the article and don't count on it. A console designed around ads. Imagine...
-

Microsoft keeping the DRM in their Xbox One for launch, and requiring an Internet-download to patch it out. Why is this the case when they are continually upgrading the GPU and the system OS? Why is the DRM still there? Again, what other reason could they have for this, other than to insure it for later use? Doesn't get more disingenuous than that.
-

Microsoft designing their entire Xbox One system for years and years with the intention of screwing over the consumer, gaining complete control of your purchases, removing your ownership status, ensuring that you can only play your games if you handshake with their cloud once every 24-hours, otherwise your games are digital nothings. Essentially removing all choice you would ever have of how you purchase or lend or sell your purchases. Your physical purchases.
-

[DigitalRaptor]

Microsoft trying to have the Kinect be required for the console to even function despite being able to turn it on at the power and navigate the menu with a controller. They were that desperate to sell their consoles that they lied about Kinect being a requirement to make it look more justified. This is a low, low move and something that should have sent alarm bells ringing, but it's in fact one of the LAST things they changed, once people began questioning why it was required. And why it was an always-listening requirement? I'll leave that to you to figure out.
-

Microsoft and Turn 10 actively shipping an incomplete game in Forza 5 for $60 and requiring that you download the rest, and of course only IF you have an internet connection. Decision to ship an incomplete game and charge full whack for it.... nothing else needs adding to that point.
-

Microsoft lying to their consumers about how they can't do this or they can't do that, and then doing those things. And the deceit doesn't end there as far as MS is concerned.
-

Microsoft's corporate philosophy being this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... is apparently healthy business as usual.

What Microsoft tried to pull with the XB1 (the many multiple things) is much, much worse than anything any console manufacturer in gaming has ever done. You think you can compare the disgraceful practices of a company who has done and continues to do these things is even comparable with an out of their hands hack, with the decision to use Blu-ray (which now even Microsoft are using), to the Cell which have enabled some amazing things despite its immense challenges on developers.

Where do the similarities truly lie? You can't say any company is truly pure, but Microsoft are a confirmed anti-consumer disgrace, proving themselves so time and time again, and to think people can turn around in such a short amount of time and forgive them for things they were willing to force on the consumer not for one generation, for FOREVER. Think of how the things Microsoft were trying to control for the XB1 would've impact gaming adversely, and you should see exactly how dumb it is to support or even remotely trust that company.

[trafalger]

ok, let me chime in because I have grown bored of these tireless debates from biased users who lean more towards shills for sony than actual gamers. who also can't help themselves from talking more about m$ than the very company they seem to want to support.

"Why should Sony help 3rd party developers develop their games when no one else does that and Sony would get nothing from doing so?"

did you fall off a ladder recently and bang your head? sony has also done a 180 with the ps4. no longer are they making proprietary hardware and architecture that only benefits them. now they have finally listened to feedback from game developers and utilized a more pc type architecture. it was the ps3, not the xbox 360 or the wii that was difficult to work with. sony did the same thing with the ps2. now that the ps3 did not control the market and developers favoring the xbox 360 sony is now deciding to place nice. the cell was forced by sony, same with the emotion engine. sony acknowledges poor tools for 3rd party early on. yet you're more of an apologists than sony.

"PSEye and Move were merely options for the PS3, not integral."

so. the wiipad is also something nintendo believes in, same with the wiimote controller. not every console needs to have the same direction as sony. get over it. kinect also sold over 20 million units and sony won't tell us how many move controllers were sold and how many unique ps3's had one since some bought more than one. making it difficult for game developers to know the real userbase.

"Yeah, let's blame a hacking victim for the hack and not the hackers."

then why did sony apologize? why did sony admit they could have had better security? you're far more of an apologist than they are. everyone gets hacked but not everyone has the same security that can be breached as easily as the other. so yes, some blame does lie with sony.

"The company that owned the patent sued Sony and Sony was legally not able to include Force Feedback in the DS3 until that suit was resolved."

which sony could have resolved much like m$ did. the xbox 360 came out before the ps3 and m$ decided to pay, sony didn't.

you talk about the lack of a headset, why didn't sony include a hdmi cable? you talk about standards, what happened to sony's standards of including backwards compatibility?

you see, your argument is severely biased because you have already admitted you don't like m$. so why are you continually in m$ topics? do you go after nintendo as much? i doubt it because nintendo isn't as much of a threat to sony fanboys, the xbox brand is. which explains why sony fanboys troll m$ articles way more than they do nintendo topics. did you write a blog about sony now charging for online gaming? did you write a blog about your account being locked to your wii u system making digital content next to impossible to get if your system breaks?

sony fanboys will continue to hold m$ to a much higher degree of pessimism and a much higher degree of standards. it was sony's decision to drop the cheaper ps3 model because they wanted wi-fi on every unit even though not everyone uses it. it was also there decision to drop ps2 support on newer models all for the same of being more price competitive. thus dropping there own standards of having a feature they previously marketed.

at the end of the day it doesn't matter, it's yesterdays news but it seems some people have wounds that cannot heal and will spend eternity arguing over anything.

[DragonKnight]

@trafalger: For someone who "doesn't care about" me and "isn't biased" you spend an awful lot of time following me around, searching through my comments, and trying to devalue the PS4 and Sony. Yeah, you're not biased at all.

[xRedline]

"Irrelevant to the discussion. This discussion began as a categorization of the mistakes made by either the PS3 or the Xbox One. It's not surprising you can't contain your attempts to the subject at hand though."

I thought we were talking about Sony and Microsoft here, not limiting it to simply PS3 and Xbox One. Either way, we're talking about the actions of their gaming divisions in recent years. I figured I would be presented with a sleight of hand tactic by you to disregard anything I just said. When you can't win, you limit the discussion. You guys do an awful lot of that.

"PSN Pass is not something I can argue with. However it still didn't prevent you from playing games, so again it's not the same."

PSN Pass essentially meant that you were buying half a game if you bought used. It did in fact prevent you from accessing part of the game. But see, that's ignored by someone like you. This is the whole point of why I'm even commenting.

"I request a link to any legitimate and proven testimony from any individual who had their identity and/or credit card compromised. I also request a link to any legitimate piece of information that details an online service that is impossible to hack. When you find those things, we can talk. Until then, Sony was a victim of a hack and people like you just can't accept that and love to go on a Sony hate crusade with no real legitimacy behind it."

So you disagree that it's Sony's responsibility to protect the information they store and when said information is compromised it's okay because they got hacked? Wow.

"An expensive device is not anti-consumer, it's merely expensive. Anti-consumer is something that can't be overcome unless the entity initiating it changes that policy. And given the expense of buying an iPhone, a PS3 was certainly never anti-consumer."

Tell that to all your buddies talking about how pro consumer Sony is for releasing a console at $399. Double standards suck, and is why we're even talking about this.

"Your childish sarcasm aside, you didn't make a correlation whose result was removing consumer rights, preventing the consumer from using their product, or in any way was similar to what Microsoft had done. The issue at hand is how can people not forgive MS if they forgave Sony and the answer is the difference between any mistakes from the PS3 never resulted in the removal of rights or the locking out of the basic function of the device."

I did make a correlation to your extremely narrowed down point of thinking. PSN Pass is the only thing I needed to list. You asked for one. I gave you one. The other things I replied to were to point out that you will apologize for Sony's mistakes but damn Microsoft for theirs. They may not be the EXACT same actions, but they are extremely similar and both times have caused issues/confusion for their customers.

Here's the bottom line, guy. Both are companies. Both will make mistakes. Both want your money. Sony isn't some white horse with a golden halo and Microsoft isn't some evil deity emerging to suck away your soul. They are corporations selling customers products.

You can't just sit there and defend one and then let the other have it when they're both guilty of similar actions. Actually you can, and that's why a lot of people are getting sick of the one-sided circle jerk on this website. I'm not even against some of the stuff Sony has pulled, but looking back, it wasn't exactly in the interest of their customers.

But then, what would I know? I'm just on a Sony hating crusade for pointing out how you ignore certain aspects of the gaming company you prefer.

[trafalger]

dragonknight,

"and trying to devalue the PS4 and Sony. Yeah, you're not biased at all."

really dude? thats what you took out of that, i'm devaluing the ps4? the only thing i mentioned about the ps4 is how sony listened to game developers for once. thats a good thing! i have a ps4 on pre-order and not a xbone. thats how much i devalue the ps4. your clueless. just because i dont have a xbone on pre-order doesn't mean i have to make sure the ps4 is better in every way to somehow convince myself i made the right choice.

you're so wrapped up in making m$ like some evil empire that you ignore everything else around you and only answer certain questions. i simply pointed out a counter to mistakes sony made and business decisions they felt they needed to make moving forward. i know m$ made stupid decisions too like not having a standard hard drive on the x360. or some of there ideas they wanted to do with the xbone.

but someone like you will continue to move the goal posts when you see fit. if m$ makes all these changes and you still keep asking for more with no real incentive to buy one then you're just wasting everyones time because you have a agenda and that is to make m$ look inferior at every turn compared to sony. thats what shills and fanboys like yourself do and some people are getting sick of it. why can't sony fanboys simply move on? why are they so consumed with what m$ is doing?

http://n4g.com/user/blog/dr...

look at all the blogs you write. its mostly all negative which to me means you're a very pessimistic fella to begin with. one of your first blogs is "whatever happened to fun". you tell me. the irony in that statement is thick. you whine about this, you whine about that. then you write one about pc gaming and the elitist attitude that comes with it. do you not look around at all the sony fanboys with there elitist attitudes? those who have now moved on to the ps4 ram and how it's going to kill the xbone? how the ps3 was so much more powerful than the x360? funny how you console fanboys are very quick to compare specs but when the pc is mentioned you guys cry about it.

here's an idea, how about we have fun instead of arguing over everything and attacking other companies all the time? you asked what happened to fun, how about you show us.

here is a comment in your pc blog,

"Montrealien 760d ago
This is a quote from DragonKnight's 3rd comment ever on N4G...

"
Second, no MGS4 and FFXIII will not be jumping ship. The developers know their games, and if they say it's not possible, then you better bet your ass that it's not. Maybe not from the technical side of things, but MGS4 and FFXIII were designed for the PS3, down to the last pixel. FFXIII has bee stated to be for the PS3 because "the PS3 is the only system that can realize our dreams for the game"."

then mysteriously you never came back to reply. i guess not when your attitude was this about pc gaming,

dragonknight,
"In the end, the only thing PC has that makes it relevant are graphics. The majority don't care about mods, hate using a mouse and keyboard as a controller, and will always take the convenience of consoles over PC. That's just fact."

you just don't get it and never will. your so self centered its not even funny and worse of all the community here rewards your actions. nintendo is light years behind in many areas but you dont go after them nearly as much. why is that? i already explained why, sony fanboys see the xbox as a more direct threat.

yet you want to suggest i'm the biased one?

[DragonKnight]

@xRedline: "I thought we were talking about Sony and Microsoft here, not limiting it to simply PS3 and Xbox One."

We're not. Read PimpDaddy's original comment, second paragraph. That's what I was replying to originally and where the conversation originally began. Your examples regarding the PSPGo or anything that didn't involve the PS3 are thus irrelevant.

"PSN Pass....."

But it didn't block you from the entire game. Meaning you could still play the single player portion of the game. I'm not denying that it was a stupid move, but it's not the same thing as what MS was doing and for those who didn't care about online gaming, it didn't affect them in any way. The Xbox One's DRM affected everyone whether they gamed online or not. This is why one was easier to forgive than the other and that's the heart of the issue.

"So you disagree that it's Sony's responsibility..."

I didn't say that. I disagree with the hate crusade of blaming Sony because someone decided to hack them, I proved that there is no such thing as a perfectly safe network using the Pentagon as an example. You simply want to blame Sony for something that can happen regardless of how much security there is. You're essentially saying that even if PSN was the digital version of Fort Knox and yet was still broken into, it's Sony's fault for not having more security. There comes a point where you just have to look at the fact that someone committed a crime against Sony, Sony didn't commit a crime against themselves. Get over it. And again, that's not even remotely the same as the anti-consumer tactics of Microsoft because Sony didn't choose to be hacked now did they?

"Tell that to all your buddies..."

Again the cost of a console, whether cheaper or more expensive, is not inherently pro or anti consumer. Your inclusion of it was merely a slight against people who claim it to be, not based in fact.

"I did make a correlation..."

And I debunked it. The issue is how Sony can be forgiven and MS can't. The mistakes made with the PS3 were, by and large, either not a choice made by Sony (example PSN hack) or not remotely the same as those made by Microsoft. Microsoft's choices affected a global scale. They intended to revoke rights, limit ownership, and their plans would have ensured that countless people couldn't use an Xbox One even for single player experiences. That is in a whole different league that the supposed anti-consumer moves you fault Sony for.

In the end, you're right both are companies. However one clearly moved with an arrogant self-interest that bit them in the a$$ hard and the other opted to do anything they could to gain a good reputation with gamers from the start in the here and now. Anything that happened with the PS3 has long since been passed and can't be changed so whining about it now makes those doing so look like children.

@trafalger: You realize that I don't really read anything you post right? You're so hypocritical that it's pointless to. You claim not to care about what I say, yet stalk my page for comments and blogs to use when you follow me to a topic. In fact I see that you did that just now. You claim not to be bias, yet you single out anything pro-Sony or anti-MS to argue against. You use the typical line "it doesn't matter anyway" at the end of every troll comment you make. Get over it and get a life.

[first1NFANTRY]

disabling your youtube comments section due to customer dissatisfaction is NOT listening to your customers lol. nice try tho.

[rainslacker]

Well...apparently after 7 years you can't seem to get over it. Why should everyone get over MS in...what is it now...three weeks?

Besides all of those things you mentioned was fan boy hate thrown around for the sake of the console war.

The hate for MS was because they really tried hard to push a product on us that was so anti-consumer that it just reviled many people to the core. That level of hate is well beyond console war talking points. It's a deep seeded feeling of revulsion that any company would assume to try and control the market, or it's consumers, in such an arrogant fashion, all while thinking they were doing us a huge favor.

There's a wrong way, and a proper way to handle these things, and MS did everything wrong. Sony 6 years ago was no where near as bad or stupid as MS was these past few months.

Guess I'll take each of your points though

1.$600 price. There was a lot of value in that for some people. I brought it day 1, and haven't regretted it. It was steep, but gaming is expensive. If you want to hate on the $600 price, we can hate on the $500 price. I don't hate the $500 price. I would have paid that instantly if MS delivered something of value.

2. delays: Hardware and supply issues. People understood. I'm not giving MS a hard time over their delaying the system in some countries now, because of the same reason. Some things may just be out of their control

3. Game drought. I remember playing quite a few games the first year of the PS3.

4. horrible 3rd party support. Huh? Sony has better 3rd party support than both Nintendo and MS combined. They have more 3rd party exclusives than both combined. They didn't need to rely on paying publishers for that support, they earned it through the PS1/PS2 years. They pay for exclusive content now apparently. Guess we can thank MS for that trend. Screw the other side as opposed to making your side more appealing in a meaningful way.

5. Rumble. Console war talking point. Who cares? I didn't even notice. Sure they could have licensed the tech, but it's hardly a reason to not buy a console. It's not even standard in Nintendo consoles anymore, and no one seems to care.

6. They have plenty of PS Eye and PS Move support. They just target those games to the audience that uses those products...that being the casuals. If you actually looked up facts you'd be surprised how many PS Move and PS Eye games there are. Big thing about PS Move is they didn't market it as the next big revolutionary thing in gaming. They marketed it for what it was, an easy, fun way for people to play simple games. I don't recall seeing any Milo type demonstrations for the PS Move.

7. PSN issues(I assume you mean hack) they addressed. Some accepted it, some didn't. They've since improved their service and security.

[cell989]

They were forced to make changes in order to stay relevant. They didn't do it out of good will to support "gamers" their intention was and still is to control every aspect of your home entertainment, so they can charge for every single service and have full control of what you are supposed to own.

[devwan]

Well said. Their plan was to get not just the 80m units installed the 360 has but a much larger share of what they think is a market of 400m to one billion consoles due to xbox ones non-gaming appeal, being right at the centre of everything you do digitally in the home.*

Of course, after their legendary announce disasters, they then realised they were actually going to struggle to get even the first few million through front doors. Their master plan required them to begin with gamers but instead of taking care of an established fanbase they took them for granted and attempted to squeeze their wallets further and practically none of them bought into the m$ vision, save a few fanboy ultras.

You don't get kudos for trying to recover from that. You put things right, lay off the spin, hold your hands up, take the beatings and hope and pray for the best... hopefully being mindful in future of what greed and taking loyal supporters for granted can result in.

* http://www.vg247.com/2013/0...

[GraveLord]

No. They deserve to be ridiculed for having no integrity and having no vision for their console. Pulling all these 180s is a sign of weakness.

Sources put PS4 to XBox One pre-orders at 4:1. That's the reason for all the changes. MS only cares about games when they speak with their wallets and pre-order the competing system.

[vallencer]

It gets really annoying when people keep saying that whole 4:1 ratio thing. I don't think you get that the reason its that big of a gap is because microsoft is having a DAY ONE EDITION and i'm pretty sure they want it to be as scarce as possible so the pre orders are going to be small in numbers. I have people ask me all the time at work if they pre order a xbox 1 so i don't think the policies they had in place were apparently a problem.

[GraveLord]

PS4 Launch Edition = Xbox One Day One Edition
PS4 Standard Edition = Xbox One Standard Edition

The launch/day one editions for the consoles are sold out. Sony re-stocked retailers a couple of times over the past month though.

The standard edition consoles have always been available for pre-order. Although they're guaranteed day 1, you are guaranteed to get it soon after.

No, the 4:1 ratio isn't official but wherever this figure came from, it includes both the launch and standard/day one editions.

[Nocando]

So what you are saying is "A company cares about the sales of a product they have invested billions in"? What a profound observation. Let me know how that free PS4 works out.

[rainslacker]

MS right now is trying to stay true to their vision of the Xbox brand. That is to be the center of everyone's living room. When they saw that threatened, they changed their policies. The losses didn't outweigh the gains.

People can pick any number of reasons why MS is changing their policies, but what it comes down to is that it's a collection of all those things combined.

MS has to stay true to the original vision of the Xbox brand. The only way they can do that is to give consumers what they are willing to spend money on.

The initial policies of the X1 were a cash grab designed to control the market in their favor. That monetary gain was insignificant in the long term ability to reach it's ultimate goal. That's the real reason for the reversals. And that's a good thing, because it means that MS will give consumers what they want. We can hope they learn that they should listen to the consumers.

It's not really weakness, it's just realizing that they were wrong. Now if they could actually admit that instead of putting it behind some PR spin, people may back off a bit. Being humble goes a long way with consumers(Note difference in Sony between the PS3 launch and PS4 launch...all humble).

@christ below
It's gaming news. Gaming news is not isolated to a brand. The products and polices of the Big 3 effect our entire gaming experience. That's why we pay attention to it...because we actually care about our hobby enough to not be blind followers.

[christocolus]

People will write anything nowadays and some gamers arroganly agree with anything..I'm not dissing ps4 but why do so many sony fans keep following xbox news?its beyond me. Nothing can actually change my mind from getting d xbox one and my friends too. Xbox live is great and I've actually grown so acustomed to the xbox pad and iv never once regreted owning an xbox.ms has got me hyped I'm nt worryd abt all this crap I keep readn about online I.e rrod, prism, nsa,drm,xbx live subscriptions, cable box,kinect 2. Lmao..Its very simple if you do not like the console then let go.MS isn't forcing anyone to get one.expecting them to gravel at your feet cos of something that's since been cleared up is a joke. The console will sell out and I'm certain i and millions of others are going to enjoy owning it..people should just stop trying so hard to hate it..after launch a lot of mindsets will change

[jamsam360]

YES They do! Nuff Said Only PS fanboy's would say otherwise!

[skydragoonity]

Microsoft doesn't deserve any kudos what so ever. Greedy corps. & why do you all bother to reply @Golding89 ? He's an xbot & a troll

[LeoDDestroyer]

Yeah. I mean you had a company tell you it vision but then completely change it. Granted they had pressure to do so but it not easy for a company to do a complete turn around like they did on something that they had put years of planning into.

[arbitor365]

if they cared one iota about the hardcore gamer, these things wouldnt have been there to begin with

they didnt change of their own free will. they were forced to, due to poor software and hardware pre orders.

there is nothing honorable about what microsoft has done. they have been embarrassed and beaten by a company that has actually focused on gamers and not their own avarice and arrogance.

[Mikeyy]

Pat on the back for what? Finally doing what they should of done at the reveal?

So Microsoft tries to screw you, gets called out, reverses policy, then you want to make them the hero? What??

[feraldrgn]

No, I don't think they deserve kudos for addressing many of the concerns about the Xbox One.

They were the ones who implimented them, they only chose to change them once they realised the pre-orders were at such low numbers.

After the DRM reversal, pre-orders were still low, so they had to change even more.

Consumers should keep notes that MS tried such business practices, shut down Youtube comment section & then had the cheek to say they were listening to the consumer.

If they had a healthy amount of pre-orders & media interest, they would have continued to plug their fingers in their ears.

[corvusmd]

Yes they do, if they deserve the criticism when they do something wrong, then they deserve praise when they do something right....ask Sony. (Does seem funny that most saying that they don't deserve kudos, are now backing the PS4 without question even though Sony admits making several mistakes with PS3 during the whole last generation, and they made several 180s...yet now they feel XB1 deserves NO leeway and the system still hasn't launched and is technically still in R&D...bias much? Clearly fanboys and/or just confused)

[SITH]

Heck yes they do. As I maintained since Xbox one was announced, I was fine with absolutely everything before it was reversed or revised. I am just as good right now with the current status of the console. If all the changes came in after the console launched, I would be disturbed. The only reason to me that people are butt hurt, is because they have less to complain about. Especially, especially people who were not even going to buy the machine in the first place. Their motivation is purely fanboy related. Microsoft did something they have not done since the 36o was announced, they listened to people. I can't fault anyone in their position doing that. I just want them to listen to their customers, developers, publishers, and not the kiddies who won't be handing a dime to them.

[g4me_he4d]

In my honest opinion they don't deserve anything. When the original reveal took place we were all saying that their polices were anti-consumer. It wasn't until E3 and the preorders that they started to change there policies(note they did not listen). As my Dad use to say money talks BS walks.

[No_Limit]

I believed in second opportunity. Everyone should be given a second regardless if it is DRM reversal, network hacked resulting in server shutting down for 24 days, RROD, YLOD, Rootkit spy CDs, releasing a controller without rumble and claiming rumble is "so last generation".

Everyone can make mistakes and as long as those mistakes are corrected, then what is there not to like? As a matter of fact I gave extra Kudos to MS of letting Don Mattrick go (he was probably the mastermind behind the whole DRM scheme), as it is hard to let a CEO get away that is responsible of taking the 10 million unit of X360 sold to 80 millions after he took over in 2008. Ever since he left, it seems like it is all positive news regarding Xb1,

[fsfsxii]

Do not underestimate morons with the power of the internet and the keyboard

[Nocando]

Sarcastic, hit seeking title. They know full well what the dregs of the interwebs will say.

[gdguide]

It's kind of like a guy giving his girlfriend a hunting knife for her birthday and changing his mind after the girlfriend threatens to leave him for not being even close to understanding what she wanted. Is the girl that dumb to think that him offering her flowers after the fact he offered her a hunting knife is the same as offering her what she wanted in the first place?

Microsoft was soooo off with understanding gamers and developers, that I almost don't care what they reverse policy wise. They clearly had and still have certain ideals that they want to aim towards, and I'm not that stupid to think that these reversals carry the same weight as Sony chosing right from the start some of these priorities.

[dennett316]

They kind of do, in a way, but it shouldn't have gotten to that point in the first place. They must have focus tested to gauge gamer reaction, surely? And if so, how can they not have known that some issues would have arisen from their restrictive approach?
Their insistence on Kinect being bundled is the last big step they really need to take, because there are many that simply do not want that technology...and it's not just due to paranoia. It adds so little to core games, it's next to useless. It's best function is the voice commands, and that could have been built into the console or utilised via the headset...that they were also forced to include after reactions online.
They badly misjudged their vision, it offered change for the sake of change, and not change that would benefit the end-user, it would only benefit them. Out of 78-80 million 360 owners, 27 million bought Kinect - and far fewer than that actually got any enjoyment from the thing....so they make that an integral part of their console. Out of 78-80 million, only 48 million have ever taken the console online....and that includes Silver members, so let's be generous and give them 30 million Gold subscriptions. Less than half of their users, and yet they were determined to make online such a focus, that they'd restrict the usage of the console if you didn't check in every 24 hours. Even now that they've changed things, more than half of their users are not allowed access to Netflix, or the playing of Free to Play games, because those and other services that have nothing to do with Microsoft are stuck behind a Gold subscription paywall.
It's a ludicrous state of affairs, and one that shows that those in charge of Microsoft have lost sight of what the public want in the pursuit of more control of the content we pay for, and more avenues in which to strong-arm people into paying for access to services that they have no business actually charging for.

[Garethvk]

I agree, I think that charging people to play online is bad enough but when things like Netflix are not an option unless you pay is a real issue. It is not that I cannot afford it, but when I can go on a Wii U, PS 3, and a PC or any tablet and access it without having to pay extra, I should not have to with Microsoft.

[Killabites]

At the end of the day it just goes to show you that with out the consumer the company is nothing. I think its time we all stood together and vote with our wallets, money talks If the PS4 fans kicked off about PSN cost and Xbox fans did the same with Xbox live they would have no choice but to change.

[slivery]

Bottom line no. People make up the excuse "well they care about the consumer that is why they are changing."

If they cared about the consumer they would have listened before, I have said this a thousand times and everyone on N4G knows people were complaining about these policies long before the Xbox One was even announced. We all knew about them through insider info and what not which for once just about everything they said about the Xbox One was true.

Oddly they didn't care to listen then, before it was you are going to have to deal with it. It was only when they actually saw the strong literal hate for the system.. Then they were like oh crap we are going to lose a ton of cash, lets flip this thing. It had nothing to do with them caring or listening to the consumer par say.

Look at the company as if they are a selfish person, most selfish people only care about a problem when it affects them, they don't care about problems outside of that. This is a perfect example of that, Microsoft didn't care about the problem when it existed outside of their realm but when they saw it would potentially affect them and create a problem for them then they cared about it.

So no they don't deserve kudos for being selfish. It is also like a person who only does nice thing for someone else simply for their benefit, instead of a person who does nice things for a person for nothing in return. Microsoft is expecting something in return you better believe that.

[Clarence]

No. They only did it because the pre order for the Xbox 1 were low. They could care less about the gamers.

[Eonjay]

You don't get kudos for being forced to do the right thing for you customers.

[Gore-Content]

They don't deserve shit! This is just them playing catching up with Sony.

[RiPPn]

No, because they aren't making the changes by choice, they are being forced to make them because people are voting with their wallets. Anyone who thinks these changes would have come about had there been insane preorder numbers is drinking the green kool aid.

[MultiConsoleGamer]

They went from being tyrannical to spineless.

[bromtown]

Does a man who smears dog crap on your face deserve kudos for handing you a moist towelette?

[first1NFANTRY]

Americans forgive M$, foreigners don't.

[RiPPn]

I'm American and I don't forgive them. And I never got my 360 because it was an American product. In fact my favorite genre is JRPGs. Not sure where country pride to consoles came from as it barely exists for any products these days.

[mmj]

What choice did they have? Xbox One would have flopped if they didn't backtrack.

[Picnic]

It's been useful to them in way. They've got rid of some policies that probably weren't going to make much money for them anyway.

And this has turned in to a useful distraction behind which they've managed to get away with charging for Xbox Live for the third generation running because Sony are too this time.

Charging for all online play was always my biggest grievance against the Xbox.

DRM could have actually proven to be a policy benefitting to both true gamers (who'd actually rather not pay a third party shop for second hand games) and game creators.