Redout Dev: Xbox One X Has The Smallest Gap With Average Gaming PC, 4K/60 Possible With Optimization

Microsoft's Xbox One X may be out in November but the console's capabilities, especially as a native 4K gaming machine, are yet to be proven. While some games take advantage of the console to offer "enhanced" visuals, others actually implement HDR and native 4K. It's all a matter of optimization as Redout developer 34BigThings informed GB.

[Bigpappy]

LOL. Redout is spreading the love. Hope they get some sales out of it.

[freshslicepizza]

It would be nice to see most devs push the hardware

[alb1899]

Well watching the news I see a lot of support and appreciation from developers rode X1X

[NewMonday]

"Average Gaming PC" is a good description of the XBoneX power level

[freshslicepizza]

@NewMonday
"Average Gaming PC" is a good description of the XBoneX power level"

So then according to you the PS4 Pro is a below average PC even though Sony said they wanted to curb people from going to the PC with it?

[NewMonday]

@moldybread

yes

[Eonjay]

Hopefully they make good games. Hope they get sales... because they make good games right? You want them paid for saying the obvious?

[Bigpappy]

Well they said very glowing things about the PSpro version too. They just added the PC comparison stuff here. They are being nice to both sides so it looks like they are trying to win favor or not loose any. The game doesn't look special to me so maybe by being nice to all some might give is a chance.

[LordJamar]

they gonna get attacked by fanboys first tho

[XanderZane]

Yeah.. they are even bringing it to the Switch. I guess the Switch will get a few 3rd party games after all.

[sadsatan]

put the crack pipe down. cpu says NO

[MegamanXXX]

Lol, the Jaguar cpu in full effect. The most powerful cpu in 2017 :)

[343_Guilty_Spark]

Most games aren't CPU bound

[freshslicepizza]

If anyone here knew about PC development they would realize that when viewed in 4k less pressure is put on the CPU and more is put on the GPU.

[MegamanXXX]

XStation4pio_Pro

Fair enough lets just wait in see in a few months

@Moldybread

Then why do my cpu struggle when I play Dues EX in 4K 30fps??

[WildDonkey]

This has been discussed at nauseam. The X does not simply have an overclocked Jaguar CPU like the pro. Is it similar yes but Not just a simple overclock. If you do a little research you'll find it's a customized CPU designed to eliminate bottlenecks and use DX12 way more efficiently.

[ABizzel1]

@Moldybread

What you just said is a complete lie. 4K gaming or gaming at any resolution can and will be CPU bound if the CPU is not powerful enough to run the GPU to it's max settings without limiting it. That in essence is what a CPU bottleneck is. A budget CPU cannot run a high end GPU to its maximum theoretical or average performance because the CPU just isn't capable of keeping up with the speed and cycles of the GPU needed to run the game which limits the average framerate from what could be 60fps on a high-end CPU, down to forcing a locked 30fps on a lower end CPU, or in worse in extreme cases.

The good news for console besides coding to the metal (which PCs have low level APIs to help get better performance as well) is that they generally target 30fps so bottleneck isn't as horrible as it would be for a gamer on PC who has the GPU power to hit 60fps, but would be stuck at 30 due to an old CPU. On top of that the CPU handles AI, UI, Physics and more, so a stronger CPU allows for better overall game simulation as well as achieve max potential out of the GPU (aka fps). So in the case of Scorpio, PS4 Pro, and their original versions the CPU isn't as big of a deal, but it's 100% a bottleneck to the consoles if you want 60fps games with big worlds / maps, advanced AI, physics, and more.

That's why you don't see gaming PCs running 1070's / 1080's / and higher with an ancient Pentium.

[Kleptic]

@moldybread...

and even with the above stated...A roughly r9 290x gpu from 2013...is not a 'capable' modern 4k gpu...with any form of optimization...

The xbox one x is a powerful console...the ps4 pro is a powerful console...the xbox one x is on paper a bit more powerful...and still YEARS behind what real native 4k real time rendering requires. 4k shouldn't be a console topic, just like 1080 'full hd' shouldn't have been one back in 05/06. Yeah, we get it, lots of companies want to sell 4k tv's...but console gaming shouldn't be part of this, and 'gamers' falling for it is the culprit. We'll soon have not one, but TWO consoles fully capable of ringing out the display capacities of those facking awesome TV's we all bought back when full HD was promised last gen...but instead...we're half-assing the next resolution bump way before console hardware is actually up to it.

Last gen it was upscaling to freaking 720 when 1080 was promised, this gen it was upscaling to 1080; a promise from last gen (read: lol), then later this gen it's 'stitched 4k' when 1080 still hasn't been nailed down and requires new hardware to do it (read: literally can't stop laughing)...seriously, w/e...the oxymoron of 'powerful console' should've died a while ago. Unbeatable exclusive software on some? definitely...hardware capable of 'real' native 4k, without any gimmicks, on any of them?...zero...

by the time these consoles can actually achieve 4k you guys will be frothing at the mouth about 'honeycomb 16k w/ pixel assist' that continues the trend of duplicating image data that nothing in the box you bought ever really rendered...

[mcstorm]

I love this website sometimes. People are always moving the goal posts. When the xbox one and ps4 were announced that the ps4 was the better console because it was more powerful. Now its the other way round people are finding a way to did the xbox one x because it has more power than the ps4 pro. Come on people get a grip buy the console you want.

[UltraNova]

Mcstorm, No the ps4 was the better console because it was slightly more powerful AND 100 dollars cheaper AND came with a rock solid promise of a constant flow of new and unique games AND full support until the gen's very end.

None of the above applies to the xb1x, none! So please spare us the victim routine...

[PFFT]

Ahh you mean the new and unique games that people play for no more than 1 month??? Gotacha. The X will have a healthy flow of games NO ONE even the most hardcore of hardcore fanboys can deny that. Exclusive or not the Xbox One X fanbase wont have a hard time looking for games to play.

[Nathan_Hale53]

@WildDonkey, Customized doesn't say how much it is changed. It is underpowered. Clockspeeds aren't as important as architecture, but regardless, the low clockspeed will affect it. It is essentially 90% a Jaguar CPU. It will hold things back.

Many games aren't CPU bound, but a lot of them need a decent CPU to hold down stability. Even in DX12, which puts more load onto the GPU than CPU, games still need a decent CPU.

@PFFT You can say the same about the exclusives on the One, but only game I see still staying around being played is Halo, but I know people still play a lot of the exclusives. People still talk about and play many of the PlayStation games. Uncharted, Last of Us, BLOODBOURNE. Come on man, that is the weakest most biased argument. Plus all the "exclusives" I can get on my PC that is more powerful than the 1X from over a year ago, and what proof of these super hard core games do you have over PlayStation or better yet, PC?

[XStation4pio_Pro]

Lol so now the CPU is the argument. It's the same one as the PS4 pro but clocked higher and also that full 2 tflops more on th gpu and an extra 4gb of gddr5 resting on a faster bus. I'm pretty sure if titanfall was bumping 6k dynamic resolution bursts at 60fps, they could optimize this to do 4k/60. What was the Pro running titanfall at? Right an average res of 1440p

[MegamanXXX]

Then it should be able to run Witcher 3 and Dues EX in 4K 60fps :)

[XStation4pio_Pro]

@megamanXXX:

Depends on the engine and optimizations and graphic load. None of those games have anything in common. Redout is hardly pushing open world witcher graphics. Open world games take a lot more horsepower to look good. Racers usually don't have that problem because it's usually a fixed location. Forza 7 is running in native 4k//60 for example.

[DARK_WOLF]

Except its not the same as the pro. Its been extensively customized and has a dx12 chip with it to reduce load even more.

They arent even calling it a jaguar its just a custom cpu.

Sure its no i7 but its better than a base jaguar.

Theres also gpu compute to offset the cpu load as well.

[Razzer]

"has a dx12 chip with it to reduce load even more."

No, there isn't an additional dx12 chip. The GPU supports dx12 just like existing Xbox One but with additional capability.

MS clarified this after the initial report.
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

[Bigpappy]

Actually, it is a CUSTOM 8 core GPU. None of you know for sure what it is capable of. The proof is in the pudding. Pudding has not been served yet. Almost there people.

[Bigpappy]

CPU not GPU. Sorry for the typo .

@Razzer: the link is supposed to support your point. That's the purpose of a link.

DX12 is built into a chip called the Xbox engine along with the CPU and GPU.

[Razzer]

@Bigpappy

Just like it is with the current Xbox One but with "additional capabiltiies".

"Microsoft's Andrew Goossen has been in touch to clarify that D3D12 support at the hardware level is actually a part of the existing Xbox One and Xbox One S too. "Scorpio builds on the Command Processor capability present in the original Xbox One," we're told. "Our implementation of D3D12 supports all Xbox Ones, and games have already shipped that use it. When a game using D3D12 starts up, we reprogram the GPU's Command Processor front-end. The 50 per cent CPU rendering overhead improvement was reported by shipping games. The amount of win is dependent on the game engine and content, and not all games will see that size of improvement. Scorpio's Command Processor provides additional capability and programmability beyond what Xbox One/Xbox One S can do. We plan to take advantage of this in the future."]

[Razzer]

I may have misunderstood his point. I read it as this was new functionality in One X. But if that wasn't the point then my bad.

[XanderZane]

@Bigpappy
I was going to tell Razzer that, but you beat me to it.
"DX12 is built into a chip called the Xbox engine along with the CPU and GPU."

Also the difference with DX12 on the XBox One is it did not have the full DX12 API on the XB1 when it launched. Microsoft didn't had full DX12 support for the XB1 for over a year. This is why many developers had to patch their games to support it. Also DX12 wasn't on the same Chip as the CPU/GPU in the OG XB1. Big difference. The difference with DX12 on the OG XB1 and on the XB1X is like night and day.

[JasonKCK]

PS4 Pro CPU vs x1x CPU

Which one has the advantage?

[XStation4pio_Pro]

The one x is clocked higher on a faster bus

[Wikkid666]

X1 specs have the advantage in literally every way.

[conanlifts]

X cpu is 10% faster cpu, double the cache plus a few other tweaks to increase efficiency.

[XanderZane]

The XB1X CPU obviously. It has a lot more customization that will assist the CPU and reduce bottlenecks. Biased fanboys don't want to hear this, but it's the truth. DF explained it all in their Scorpio reveal video.

[bluefox755]

Lol, let them have their hope and hype. Reality will set in eventually, and goal posts will be moved accordingly.

[Zeref]

Reality is most AAA games will be 4K 30 and some 4K 60 like Forza 7. The same can't be said for ps4 pro though.

[Kiwi66]

Yet the reality is that the Xbox X has a bit more power than the PS4 pro so games will look better on it

[Krysis]

@kiwi come on a bit more, that's the understatement of the year. The word you are looking for is significant.

[Condemnedman]

what do you game on bluefox?

[DarkZane]

Reality is most multiplatform games will look exactly the same on both PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. Assassin Creed Origins and others are already confirmed to be used 4K checkboard resolution like the Pro and not native.

If you want for a real native 4K gaming machine, wait for a PS5, because a $399.99 PS5 with 12 TFLOPS is definitely possible by then. Yeah you think I am delusional, but I am not, the GTX 1080 Ti can do 12 TFLOPS already and in 2-3 years, that card will already be useless trash and the price will have tanked significantly already, because they release a new series every years. They're releasing the GTX1070, 1080 and 1080Ti replacement this year, and those cards will be replaced again in 2018 and 2019. 3 generation of gpu further, it means a 1080 ti and it's 12 TFLOPS is gonna be cheap as hell to produce.

[JasonKCK]

DarkZane there are various levels of checkerboard quality. It is not fixed and the quality will be lower on weaker hardware. The Pro isn't even a year old so why are you wishing for a PS5 in 2018?

[aconnellan]

Well, pack it up guys! Sadsatan says it's not possible, and it doesn't matter what the countless devs who are actually working with the console are saying

[DiRtY]

Yeah, too bad MS just hired these highly paid hardware architects with their master degrees instead of just listening to sadsatan on N4G. He knows better.

[LiamKreptic]

Well we all know PC is the only way to enjoy all games at max everything. X1X has no comparison to PC's and if someone says yes then I want what ever you are smoking cause that's funny 😂

[MegamanXXX]

I want some of that too LMAO

[DARK_WOLF]

Erm acually most pcs out there are inferior to the 1x for gaming. Sure you can build a rig with more power but steam tells a different story and the 1x comes out on top compared to most peoples PCs

[Black0ut]

jlmccart03 what are you going on about? The majority of PC's are worse than or equal to the current consoles, tech wise... Valve have released data thats proven this time and time again. Even though a lot of people on here like to boast about their so called baller 4k PC rigs, its simply not true that they are the norm...

[LiamKreptic]

@Black0ut
Where did I say every PC is superior? I said quote "we all know PC is the only way to enjoy all games max everything." I see the confusion in the second sentence, but I was meaning to say that a PC built today has no comparison to the x1x. Don't put words in my mouth. A two or three year old PC do not count.

[Black0ut]

jlmccart03 you pretty much imply that that most PC's are superior at the start of your comment
"Well we all know PC is the only way to enjoy all games at max everything"

You back that up in the end of your comment too. PC's are great and all but the average joe is barely pushing out 1080p let alone "max everything". This is why both the current consoles and the new updated versions are bloody brilliant and serve a very neccessary role in gaming today.

[conanlifts]

Yes microsoft, digital Foundry, ark developers, redout developers and shadow of mordor developers are all making it up.

[Black0ut]

For someone talking about crackpipes you sure do make a hell if an ironic comment 😂

[RadicalCannibal]

They had to keep the cost of the console at $500 otherwise it would be commercial suicide. There had to be compromises somewhere

[jon3sy9]

https://www.pcgamesn.com/mi...

At the same time Microsoft have shifted some of the processing burden off those weakheart Jaguar CPU cores by offloading DirectX 12 onto the GPU instead. "We built that into the command processor of the GPU,” explained Micrsoft’s Andrew Goossen, “and what that means is that, for all the high frequency API invocations that the games do, they'll all natively implemented in the logic of the command processor - and what this means is that our communication from the game to the GPU is super-efficient."

Basically the DX12 API doesn’t have to involve the CPU at all when it needs to tell the graphics silicon what it needs to draw. That makes it hugely more efficient and massively cuts the CPU overhead in gaming.

[Father__Merrin]

Xbox X is higher spec than most pc gamers according to steam hardware stats

[JasonKCK]

About 94% higher.

[Zeref]

Yeah most barely reach 1080p let alone 4K.

[LiamKreptic]

Wait what?

[MegamanXXX]

lol

[DarkBlaze25]

You mega and blue need to just give it up. No one is buying into whatever foolish agenda you have. Multiple devs have said the same thing yet you think you know more than the people working on the system. If you don't like Xbox or ms that's fine but then it also makes one wonder why you devote so much of your precious time to downplay xb1x in every article. Pretty sure I didn't see any of you trashing the pro...js

[LiamKreptic]

@DarkBlze25
I was confused on the comment so I guess asking questions is wrong. People need to calm down. I literally asked a question. Didn't do anything, but that. Please tell me what OP was trying to say in that poorly worded sentence.

EDIT: Thanks Shaggy2303 for actually answering my question and being cordial.

[Welshie04]

That data isn't relevant, what about non-steam users? Or the enthusiast PC crowd? PC gaming will always be more powerful than any console, facts are facts.

[conanlifts]

Are you trying to say that there are a vast number of serious pc gamers out there who do not use steam?
Even if this were true statistically once you get past a certain number of samples the data is unlikely to change unless there are serious flaws. You can adjust the figures to make them more accurate by targeting the audience that they are relevant to i.e get rid of business users etc. In this case gamers need to be targeted...so steam would be a good place to target to get more accurate results.

[LordJamar]

its relevant to the subject for steam deal with it, if you have info to offer and other surveys put them up other wise accept it

[DeadSilence]

Average gaming pc? The average gaming pc is terrible Lmao Steam doesn't lie.

[Stevonidas]

You DO realize Steam hardware surveys are OPTIONAL, right? Not everyone submits their specs to Valve. I sure don't.

[Gh05t]

You do realize how samples, polls and surveys work right? You don't need EVERYONES specs you need a sample group. It is called statistics.

[TheOptimist]

You do realize that Steam is just a small eco system of PC gaming. People playing exclusively on Origin or LoL or Blizzard or something who probably never touch Steam. Hate to say this, but there are pirates as well, running GTX 1070s. And yeah Steam stats are unreliable.

[LordJamar]

you do realize it does not matter? As steam is a huge market for pc give us other stats or stop deflecting and accept xbox beats many PCs you will be alright your ego will remain intact it wont hurt you that a console beast some PCs

[timotim]

Well then I look forward to an amazing optimization job Redout dev...

[DaFeelz]

Hope they enhance Redout for the X. I have the WipeOut Collection for my Pro, Fast RMX for my Switch and I want Redout for the X. I refuse to put Redout next to WipeOut on PS4. For some reason, it feels like sacrilege.

[B1uBurneR]

I'm not at all concerned about anything on X1X in regards to performance & graphics.

[gamer7804]

They say average PC , but scorpio really currently is more powerful than the vast majority of PC,s according to steam

[ocelot07]

I can't argue that the XOX is more powerful (GPU wise yes) than the average PC gamer. But the people who seem to think this is not using a Jaguar CPU needs to wake up. Someone here hit the nail on the head while not realising it. When a game is running on 4K most of the work is shifted over to the GPU. This is is correct so the CPU in the XOX will have less work to do.

Here is the thing. If the CPU in the XOX was good (it's not) then 60FPS for the likes of Assassin's Creed, Crackdown, Destiny 2 would not be an issue. But because it has a crap CPU like the Pro games such as Destiny 2, Crackdown, Assassin's Creed is stuck at 30FPS.

It annoys me that Microsoft was so close. To having such an amazing console. 30FPS would of been a thing in the past. Sure not all games would of been 4K 60. But 4K checkerboard (or fake 4K as some clowns call it) 60FPS would of been pretty much standard. But no just like the PS4 Pro the CPU holds back would would of been such an amazing console.

Again am not saying 4K 60FPS is not possible as it obviously is with Forza 7 ect. All I am saying is with a better CPU 30FPS games would of been a thing of the past. Here is hoping with the PS4 and Nextbox they don't skimp out on the CPU.

[MegamanXXX]

I agree they was so close. They should have put the Ryzen CPU in. That's what I expected but oh well it is what it is.

[ocelot07]

Completely agree I can sort of understand why Sony went with the crappy Jaguar again for the Pro. As it released last year and probably wanted something a little beefier for PSVR. But Microsoft really surprised me. Am sure they could of waited an extra few months and went with a Ryzen based CPU. Even if they just went ahead and said it's a nextgen console. As long as it was Xbox One compatible what difference would it of made?

Release this XOX which is just another Xbox One with better specs (but crappy CPU) for $500 or wait a few months then release the NextBox with 6tflops and a decent CPU and also includes BC with Xbox one and 360 for the same price.

[LordJamar]

nope gota think about price vs perfomrance these are still consoles and will cut back and thats fine there supposes to be a alternate cheaper route to pc gameing not full blown pc gameing no one is gonna buy a 700-800$ ps5, ps3 was 600$ and people are already giving xbox s*** for 500$ xbox one x

[ocelot07]

I am fully aware that consoles are simply a cheaper alternative. But is it really to much to ask to not be so far behind the PC? If they wanted to keep the cost down ($500 is not to bad for the XOX) why not scale back a little bit on the GPU instead of 6tflops like the XOX how about 4 or 4.5tflops like the PS4 Pro and then put a better processor inside instead of a potato?

I am not speaking for everyone here. But if Sony's PS4 Pro had the same GPU inside but had a better CPU inside but cost £450/$500 I would of bought 2. I would love to play Horizon Zero Dawn at 1080p 60FPS instead of 4K 30FPS. If Microsoft had done the same with the XOX scaled back the GPU a little and put a better CPU inside and charged $500 for it. I would of bought one spite owning a PC with a 1080 ti inside.

Again not speaking for everyone. But I would willing to bet this sites opinion would be completely different about Microsoft. If they had went with around the same GPU power of the PS4 but a better CPU with games such as crackdown running at 60fps 1080p checkerboarded to 4K. The Xbox fans still would be calling this thing a "beast" like they are now. But the ones sitting on the fence maybe even some of the Sony fans would be praising it getting there pre-order in.

Sure they would still have a none exclusive games issue. But 3rd party games would be miles better than the PS4. Just imagine if Microsoft went with a better CPU and Red Dead Redemption 2 was 60FPS 4K or Checkerboard 4K on the XOX and 4K or Checkerboard 4K 30FPS on the PS4. That would be huge. But with the specs we have with the XOX now. I am willing to bet it will be native 4K 30FPS. Compared to checkerboard 4K on PS4 30FPS. If that is the case. I can see most people just sticking with the PS4 and buying the PS4 version.

[LordJamar]

@ocelot07 i think you are counting your eggs before that hatch with xbox one x to be honest its not even released your making some bold predictions but like you said its your own opinion all i gota say is look at games at the start of each gen then look at the end things improved greatly and i think xbox one x will reach that max with half the time and plenty to spare games could very well be 4k 60fps also im pretty sure if devs wanted they could get 1080p 60fps on there games with xbox one x but time will tell but i just dont thing the things you said are set in stone

[ClanPsi1]

I guess the biggest difference now is how my gaming PC actually has good games.

[Bobafret]

The average gaming PC doesn't even equal the X1.

[Welshie04]

Why or how is that relevant?

[Bobafret]

It is relevant to the thread because they word it as if the X1 is trailing the average gaming PC specs wise, when it is in fact well ahead. I assume this was a serious question?

[BadElf]

:)

[classic19]

For the most part if the game isnt city-open world or 60 frames from star point then x1x should be native 4k ig.. Ig you gotta give the system a year to really know.

[BeOpenMinded]

Gamingbolt is so nasty. Please n4g, do not turn into those nasty fanboys that frequent that site from both sides. That xrat person really is a black eye on all gamers jeez

[ttbob]

Compared to the gaming pc I'm getting both these consoles look exceptionally weak in comparison

[Aenea]

And water is wet!

[chris235]

ok... micky$oft is relateively new to the consoles market. they had some forced success with the 360 by investing heaps of money into timed exclusives. but what they are doing now reeks of not knowing the history. if they knew the history they would have realized that the strongest horse never went for the win. the opposite is the case. a console is only healthy if it's backed up by PROPER games for the system. something they are completely lacking. but who am i to give them advice. i only can keep my wallet closed and go on having fun with my ps4 and pc.

[andrewsquall]

However 60fps SOLID in the most intensive scenes isn't possible no matter how much optimisation is given on a majority of games, hell, even Xbone's own exclusives.

For example, I bet State of Decay 2 won't even be a rock solid 30fps on standard Xbone let alone 60fps on XboneX. A game that runs at an fps of 35 to 50 IS NOT a 60fps game the way a lot of people here seem to have convinced themselves it is.

[gazgriff2k12]

what about the games??????