Is The Cloud Really A Factor To Consider For Microsoft’s Xbox One Against Sony’s PlayStation 4

TTZ: Will cloud tech help the Xbox One prevail over the PS4? Or is the world not ready for it yet?

[TeeKay]

too early to say...cant put everything on the cloud and be totally dependent on it..too many strings attached.

[miyamoto]

That misleading title implies that cloud computing is only exclusive to the Xbox One whene this technology has been used in gaming so many years ago.

"References to cloud computing in its modern sense appeared as early as 1996, with the earliest known mention in a Compaq internal document."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/...

The first time I heard about the use of cloud computing is in a documentary on Uncharted 2's online multi player back in 2009 where Naughty Dog was able to update and modify the game live and on the fly.

People should remember that the powera of cloud computing only works if the console is online.

[freshslicepizza]

which is why in crackdown 3 it only applies to multiplayer. did it ever occur to you that any multiplayer only works if the console is online?

[poppinslops]

Everyone knows you need to be online to use the cloud... if I had to guess, I'd say at at least 90% of XO owners are online, so I doubt it'll be an issue.

The rest of your comment is irrelevant... desperately irrelevant.

[thoract]

Shhh. Your going to anger the xbots with that comment. Only MS has cloud power to increase the power on the xbone 10-20 times, no other company can have this awesome power.

[gangsta_red]

Interesting how many people on this site are "starting" to remember the powah of da cloud after two long years of amnesia.

"People should remember that the powera of cloud computing only works if the console is online."

No way!?

[SonofGod]

Your comment is so irrelevant that you could might as well use the birth of the internet as an argument.

"The first time I heard about the use of cloud computing is in a documentary on Uncharted 2's online multi player back in 2009 where Naughty Dog was able to update and modify the game live and on the fly."

Uncharted 2 wasn't the first game to do that. Are you serious??. This has nothing to do with what they're doing with Crackdown 3 at all!

It's funny people are saying "other people can do cloud compute like MS" when that is the exact same argument I used on other people who didn't believe MS could do cloud compute. And now that MS has proved it I see my own argument being used against me all the time. Yes you are one of many. Strange world we live in.

[Sitdown]

But didn't Naughty Dog just give praise for Crackdown 3? One would thing the praise came from something different being done.

[Death]

Cloud compute can be done by anyone. Microsoft has invested for years in their infrastructure that makes cloud compute on Xbox One possible. Sony could make this same investment but they chose to invest in streaming with their Gaikai and Onlive acquisitions. They are completely different business models. Xbox owners are able to use Microsofts Azure servers as a free benefit where Sony wants to use their investment to bring in additional revenue from PlayStation gamers. So yeah, anyone can do it, but only Microsoft chose to.

[Pogmathoin]

Why do people still think streaming technology is the cloud? Netflix has been using that power for years then.... Sony does it, when you insert disc and it does not work, then charge you $5 to play the game you inserted for a few hours.... Now all of a sudden that cloud was always easy to do..... This goal has never stayed in one place......

[dcbronco]

Death you're wrong thinking anyone can do cloud computing on a level Microsoft and Cloudgine displayed. If it was so easy we would have seen this in games long ago. Japan has had video smartphones for close to a decade or more but it's new to the rest of the world. There is more technology to this then servers. OnLive and Gaikai need more bandwidth so that should tell you that there is a lot more going on since the other two are just streaming.

But another poster and apparently huge Sony fan brought some information to a previous comment section I think wasn't given enough attention. B1nary Boss posted information about no other than Ken Kutaragi's intentions for the Cell processor.

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.j...

He believed the design of the Cell would allow for exactly what Microsoft is doing. The difference being everything had to contain a Cell processor. Had Sony continued to evolve the Cell and made it more versatile maybe we would have a fair fight. As it is, Sony may be at a complete disadvantage. Because the cloud changes everything. N4G commenters just don't get it yet. It's not all about destruction and pretty pictures.

But you have to give it to Kutaragi and his amazing vision to be thinking that way in 2001.

[tuglu_pati]

If this technology works it will be good for all platforms consoles and PC. Eventually Sony and even Nintendo will use it to make bigger and better interactive worlds in games. I don't understand the negativity of some people around it.

[miyamoto]

@moldybread

Nothing wrong with reiterating facts to make things clear to the average Joe.

OT

The title should have been: "Is The Microsoft Azure Really A Factor To Consider For Microsoft’s Xbox One Against Sony’s PlayStation 4?" to make it definite and clear. Not this vague-layman's-bait.

As a selling point, I think Microsoft is purposely using the general/vague term of the "cloud" to imply to the common person that it's "exclusive" to the Xbox One (like the many Xbox fans seems to celebrate).

*tsk *tsk *tsk

Not gonna work, peeps.
Never under estimate the customer.

[dcbronco]

Eventually others will do this. Most technology gets mimicked and Microsoft seems to have an open source attitude about some of it. It's a matter of when. I doubt Nintendo will make a switch at this point though Microsoft and Sony made changes to their consoles at the last minute.

The reason I bring up Nintendo making changes is I believe it works based on architecture also. So unless Nintendo is basing the NX on the cloud, and it is apparently discless, they will need to make changes. Sony will have to wait until till next generation though they could throw together something that kind of works. Plus they need some more years of PS4 money to build up.

So Microsoft should have a three or four year advantage. And yes it is a huge advantage. The cloud is far more than destruction. It's, in fact, more about gameplay and immersion.

[XBLSkull]

Too early to say but the Crackdown showed stuff that simply won't be available on the PS4. Yes, Sony "could" invest and do the same type of stuff, but they have been pretty clear they have no intention of doing so. If this tech gains serious momentum PS4 games won't be able to compete.

[remixx116]

Lol I remember all the power of the cloud is real jokes and the secret sauce jokes lol, regardless guess don't fall for the flaimbait title, let's just wait for crackdown to drop then judge.

[freshslicepizza]

@miyamoto
"Nothing wrong with reiterating facts to make things clear to the average Joe."

didn't realize there were people out there under the illusion you can access the cloud without being connected. thank you for that wonderful clarification.

"The title should have been: "Is The Microsoft Azure Really A Factor To Consider For Microsoft’s Xbox One Against Sony’s PlayStation 4?" to make it definite and clear. Not this vague-layman's-bait."

it's pretty straight forward as it is thanks. until sony manages to showcase what it can do online that increases what a single ps4 can do then i guess we'll just have to wait. it kind of started with drivatars for forza and blossomed into the incredible display of physics on crackdown 3.

"As a selling point, I think Microsoft is purposely using the general/vague term of the "cloud" to imply to the common person that it's "exclusive" to the Xbox One (like the many Xbox fans seems to celebrate)."

sony is perfectly able to rent the azure technology. you seem bothered by the positive impact of the cloud possibilities and demonstration of crackdown 3.

"Not gonna work, peeps.
Never under estimate the customer."

ok, thanks for the word of caution. any of words of wisdom?

[bf000777966]

The end of the story is that most multiplatform devs won't buy it and ps4 remains the king

[JasonKCK]

I find it hilarious how the cloud went from make believe hocus pokus to "but we can do it too" in a day. Somehow, some people here think other companies can just magically poop billions, and get this up and running in a year.

No, maybe next gen.

[TheXgamerLive]

Yea who wants multiplayer anyways, right? Haha you fanboys kill me.
The title speaks of sales and both are selling gangbuster. Who cases in 10 yr life span if one sales 100 million and the other 120 million. Its all cake and as far as The Xbox One goes its Azure Cloud Compute it miles away from anything Sony can do so button up and the Xbox One now has DX12, Azure Cloud, available 7th core improved total memory avail through SDK the Win10 Xbox UI not to mention those incredible exclusives so yes Xbox One is looking damn good but were not complaing about 1 or 2 its all fun n GAMES, right?:) Oh yes and Ba kwards Comparability :) yea:)

[HammerKong]

Dude what kind of tech ms have used is never been used before , others have streamed games through cloud but ms have used it for pushing graphics for puting more data for processing.

[u4one]

whose console isn't online these days? everyone wants multiplayer so being online isn't a problem then... ms uses cloud computing and suddenly being online is a problem....

and you're whole comment is kind of off base in general. of course cloud computing has been around for a while. the difference here is HOW they are using it and to the extent they are using.

[xxjabberxx]

http://www.polygon.com/2013...

[TheCommentator]

Why are people forgetting that MS built the internet infrastructure AND the consoles internals to be able to what Crackdown is doing with cloud compute? The move engines alone can facilitate data transfer between the console and the cloud "for free" because the extra 200gb/sec bandwidth (simultaneous 25gb read and write per engine) they provide is separate from both memory pools in XB1. For reference, the move engines are not factored into the 1.3tf performance spec.

Any console CAN do cloud compute, but only One can do it this efficiently.

[APexGamer45]

@TheCommentator

Please stop using MisterXMedia as your source, what you have said is simply incorrect.

Move engine is not used to "talk to cloud". Lol. Come on.

1.31 tflop refers to your GPU power. Your data transfer speed just make sure you can feed data fast enough to your GPU, so it doesn't get bottle neck. This goes for PS4 too. Thats why some people argue that gap is bigger if you account for GDDR5 and what not. Adding ram doesnt magically increase your compute power.

Move engine was developed to speed up slow DDR3. Has nothing to do with cloud.

As far as hardware goes, any console can have server or cloud do computing just the same as Xbox.

Edit.
I can't believe at least 4 people agree with you. MisterXMedia still must have a following or some people just want to believe...

[donthate]

Potential is a far cry from "will do".

Remember when:

* Sony didn't bother answering Respawn when they requested about cloud power for Titanfall? Yeah, well that is one of the reason why Respawn choose Xbox One and why it was exclusive.

* Sony doesn't even have dedicated servers on KillZone: Shadowfall which is a flagship shooter! Uncharted Collection doesn't even have multiplayer.

* PSN still cannot get maintained without taken offline! This is what they did in the early 2000s. The power of the cloud is supposed to automate that! Case in point, see Xbox Live!

* Sony invested instead into Gakai turning it into a PS3 farm for PS Now. I expect that to be a $1 billion write down soon.

The focus is not on online, or cloud for Sony. They have to first get dedicated servers on their first party games consistently and then fix PSN first.

MS has shown great use of the cloud across the board, and Sony simply hasn't. They are still catching, up so I think you MIGHT see it in 2-3 years when 3rd parties will implement it.

MS will show it next year with Crackdown 3 beta in the summer!!! :D

[APexGamer45]

@donthate

is that why Titanfall 2 is coming to PS4? Sounds like PS4 can easily do cloud.

[RosweeSon]

I think it's Fibre optic these days ;)

[raggy-rocket]

Yup. Hopefully cloud won't be implemented into all single player games making them online only, but I wouldn't mind a few single player experiences enhanced by it. Personally I hope the benefits are used to enhance multiplayer more than single player as there are no more restrictions than there is already in multiplayer. Hopefully they continue to use it to offload cpu computations and nothing more major, but I definitely can't wait to see what MS has in store to demonstrate its capabilities beyond destructible cities (If anything). The best thing to do it just wait and see

[jb227]

Not sure how anyone can disagree with those sentiments...I tend to see it swing in the two extremes, either Cloud is pointless and bad, or Cloud is the second coming of the gaming gods. At this point it has great potential but we need to see it in action in the wild. I think CD3 may have some issues at launch as any new implementation of tech would but it should end up really cool. These kinds of things are typically small steps, CD3 will be a cool proving ground but we won't see the full capabilities of things like the Cloud until later down the line, this will just be an interesting first step. Anyone expecting total failure or expecting the sun, moon and the stars are setting themselves up for disappointment it seems.

[KiwiViper85]

I think anyone doubting the power of the cloud should keep an umbrella handy.

Cause the clouds about to make it rain...

[3ndulg3]

Agreed some people just don't realize Microsoft is on a whole different level.

[pumpactionpimp]

I think it's funny that ps4 fans are saying the cloud isn't anything special, or things to that affect. While Xbox fans are saying I told you so. I have yet to play a product myself that proves, or disproves anything. So I would hold off on celebrating for either side.

There's a good possibility that crackdown may not work as they advertised. Then again, there's the exact same chance that the game goes off without a hitch, all I'm saying is why don't we wait and see what the final product offers, before either side speaks as if their a software engineer working for Microsoft?

[thoract]

@pumppactionpimp

Well said.

[shiva1]

E3 2016 will be more relevant to check official gameplay. Till then i have all positive hopes on this tech. In this day and this gen....i expect something new than just buying 100 games, put in a disk and play the same game in different versions.

[snoopgg]

I really don't think sony needs cloud destruction to compete with Microsoft at this time. Sony will continue to put out games that will sell their system Just like Kinect, Sony didn't feel like they needed to compete with microsoft on that level either. Its Microsoft that needs the cloud to give them a lift in sales, so they can try and catch Sony. Sony's machine is a little more powerful, so Sony has the hands up right now. I wanna see this cloud descruction in my living room before I go thinking its the holy grail of gaming. I think everyone needs to wait, before praising it or pissing on it. Only time will tell, if it will work like they are projecting it to.

[kraenk12]

tears of disappointment I guess...

[BG11579]

Definitely right. I just came out of an internet drought at home, just because of a technical difficulty.
It lasted 28 days, day-per-day. Can you imagined if all my gaming stations would be internet dependent?

[andibandit]

Tell me about it. I had a internet drought of 10 days as recently as 1996.

[nitus10]

Remote IT Services aka The Cloud is only useful if you are connected to the Internet. Of course the better the Internet performance the better the services can be.

The Cloud can not improve the hardware of the device and in this case the the console it can only augment the software that is running on the console.

While Cloud server(s) may be fast the connection between the site and your machine is being shared by many people and at times you are going to get latency issues which can render the service practically useless.

@miyamoto

You are quite correct. I knew about Cloud services and have even demonstrated them back in the mid 1980's and it was not on Microsoft operating systems which were only single tasking at that time.

[showtimefolks]

I don't know enough about it yet to make a judgement but I am sure cloud has been used before crackdown 3 and will be used in future games too

I am sure as we move forward each console will depend on the cloud more and more to a post where maybe one day we won't have physical games.

sooner or later that day is coming

here is something Xbox one can not and will not catch up to ps4 this generation. OK now since that's out of the way now, that doesn't mean Xbox one won't be successful, I think it will be very very successful and I don't think selling the most console is the only thing that counts when you are talking about a great console

xbox360 had the lead of 6 to 7 million it took ps3 over 6 years to catch up and pass it. ps4 has a 13 plus million lead so you get the picture

I like this under dog ms, Phil spencer has been on fire with announcements of new games.

as a gamer it shouldn't affect anyone as long as both ps4 and Xbox one are doing well. this generation you need both console otherwise you will miss a lot of exclusive games

cloud or no cloud Xbox one has the games right now and for future. so does ps4

so buy both and enjoy

[arkard]

@sitdown, one developer *edit turns out it was an animator* at Naughty Dog gave Crackdown praise. I suppose that means the whole company?

[Persistantthug]

Cloud can deliver some new and interesting features, but it will not improve graphics.

[raymantalk1]

been done on ps3 without cloud gaming

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[Foehammer]

Nothing in this article but a Doubting Thomas.

It's amazing how some ppl think they know more about a technology than the engineers developing it.

I guess the author missed the tech demo and the part about only 2 - 4 MB/S required.

Don't ppl realize that MS has some of the best minds in the world working their?

Do ppl really think if it couldn't be done they would be wasting resources on it?

It's a wonder man got to space with attitudes like that.

Seems to me I heard the same doubts about backward compatibility, but now....

At the end of the day I guess it's just somebody with a paycheque, that's a tiny fraction of what the engineers at MS get, trying to get clicks; to say nothing of what I suspect is the difference in education and experience.

[green]

" Seems to me I heard the same doubts about backward compatibility, but now.... " You are 100% correct.

Prior to E3 all i heard was that, it is not possible to impliment BC on current gen consoles because the architecture is different from last gen. Now it is 'yeah it was possible on the X1 but it is impossible on the PS3 because of cell processor'. Sorry but how on earth do they know this?

In my opinion, cloud computing could usher us into a very interesting era in gaming. Crackdows 3 demo is just the first steps into that era and i am very excited to see bigger and more ambitious uses of this very impressive technology.

[xxjabberxx]

https://www.youtube.com/wat... I guess you didn't play red faction

[OhMyGandhi]

for Christ's sake man.
The word is spelled "people".

[Gazondaily]

Spelt*

http://bfy.tw/1TpH

[Godmars290]

These are premises coming from MS, who I doubt as ever released something day-one which worked as advertised if not over-advertised.

So yes, people are looking at the engineers - though really, should be looking at the execs and PR shills - who claim cloud will work the same for everyone.

[freshslicepizza]

does netflix work the same for everyone? does playstation now work the same for everyone? not sure what it is you're trying to suggest.

[Godmars290]

@molybread:
Did Netflix streaming work perfectly day one? PS Now hasn't had any issues?

Do I really have to bring up RROD? The numerous times what was shown for Kinect often failed to live up to reality? Sometimes even during presentations such as Star Wars Kinect.

The point is that you and others are heaping loads of praise on MS - as is always done - when they've yet to do anything to have earned it. Certainly not on the first day.

[freshslicepizza]

@Godmars290
"Did Netflix streaming work perfectly day one? PS Now hasn't had any issues?"

if it didn't work it would never have become such a colossal hit and change the industry.

"Do I really have to bring up RROD?"

you just did, not sure why or how that is even remotely relevant to the discussion. it was a design flaw. you are suggesting what they showed for crackdown 3 will break xbox one systems?

"The numerous times what was shown for Kinect often failed to live up to reality?"

you're right, the famous scripted milo demo. difference is actual people got to play crackdown 3 by themselves.

"Sometimes even during presentations such as Star Wars Kinect."

again, scripted events during a huge stage. misleading yes but crackdown 3 was played by real people. drivatars on forza work too. the only missing key here is world conditions like anything once we connect online. does that mean crackdown 3 won't work as intended? you really are pessimistic if that's what you think.

"The point is that you and others are heaping loads of praise on MS - as is always done - when they've yet to do anything to have earned it. Certainly not on the first day."

you sound like a cheery fellow.

[Godmars290]

@molybread:
You cannot possibly be that devotedly blind to a brand name.

"not sure why or how that is even remotely relevant to the discussion."

The jest of the argument: MS will deliver cloud distribution perfectly on day one because they just happen to that good.

Bone of contention: MS has *never* done anything "perfectly" day one. Most glaring, notorious example: RROD. Nevermind that no online service from anyone else hasn't had issues besides, let MS announce something and their fan camp praise well before results. And those results never live up to expectations.

[i3eyond the Circle]

Granite SDK.

http://graphinesoftware.com...

Crackdown is literally just the tip of the Iceberg.

I guess we'll see more in the coming years.

But after reading about this tech, xbox one architecture and DX12 it brings me back to when Brad Wardell said it gives Xbox One essentially a second GPU.

[Spudinator217]

But all negativity makes "one" succeed, that's how we accomplish our goals.

[dcbronco]

That guys not a doubting Thomas, he's a liar. TechZealot? Any true technology zealot has enough sense to not question what's possible. All of this nonsense about the bandwidth needed to do this is impossible today because of access. We've heard this all before. About every new online technology. Let's run down a few major ones.

Xbox Live. Not many people have broadband. We have to be over 100 million playing their games online now on console alone.

Broadcast.com. It'll never work. It worked so well Mark Cuban sold it and instantly became one of the richest people in the world.

Netflix streaming. Not enough bandwidth. Netflix HD. Not enough bandwidth. Yet here we are years later and not only did Netflix survive attempts by the content holders to run it out of business it has become a media powerhouse.

All of those things were made possible by developing new technologies. Still some still don't get it. Technology is the Real Puff Daddy. It can't stop, won't stop. Just because you can't doesn't mean it can't be done.

TechZealot? Pfft. Probably has a rotary cellphone. Somebody inform that fool they're doing gigabit internet on old copper phone line now. They're building warpbubbles and wormholes in labs.

[FlexLuger]

When crackdown comes out and more MS 1st party games are using it to THAT level of ambition and technical jiggery pokery....yes.

For now we should look at what is currently on the table and what is coming for the rest of the year. There is plenty of reason to buy an xbox before even bringing up the 2016 lineup or whatever else MS have up their sleeves. CD is deffo a start of something big and revolutionary on xbox. When MS fully harness this tech and their teams gain an even better understanding of how to deploy it in games, then we will really see some special things. Year 4,5 and beyond is going to be special. But right now we got plenty of good stuff between now and then to look forward to. And that applies to ANY potential new xbox owner.

[LamerTamer]

unfortunately that requires an always online console. That was MS goal and is seems they are slowly implementing it through "cloud" compute titles. The problem is that not everyone wants to be always online (some can't) and the gotcha's that come with it. Most of that being that your games will all expire as server support is pulled. Do we really want to spend hundreds maybe thousands on a game library that will be at the mercy of a third party to continue support, which eventually will stop?

It is fine for online MP games and modes but I would have to see an always online requirement for everything.

[FlexLuger]

"unfortunately that requires an always online console. That was MS goal and is seems they are slowly implementing it through "cloud" compute titles."

My console is always connected to the internet. I dont have a problem with it. I also tend to play MP games more than SP games.

"The problem is that not everyone wants to be always online (some can't) and the gotcha's that come with it."

And MS dont sell the xbox in such regions. XB1 is only available in 42 countries. If I were to take a guess I would say connectivity has something to do with that. So if you are ina region tjhat sells xbox..and have an internet connection, its a non issue.

also only 3 of my 46 XB1 games are physical copies. I also own over 160 digital X360 titles.

"Do we really want to spend hundreds maybe thousands on a game library that will be at the mercy of a third party to continue support, which eventually will stop?"

Two things:

Backwards compatibility has ensured that seven year old games x360 games run on XB1, perfectly.

even though BC is now an option, I still dont have a desire to play all those X360 games all the time. If people want to physically keep these things then go collect. Personally I live in the 21st century. I have a lot of games but I also have only played two thirds of the games I own.I dont think in all my years of buying physical games, I was ever in a scenrio where I owned as many games under my TV as I do right now.

lastly:

"Most of that being that your games will all expire as server support is pulled."

That is the case for disc based games aswell. Owning a disc version of COD doesnt mean you will be able to play it offline if they take the servers down. And speaking of servers, MS has more than anybody in gaming...I aint worried about that, as an xbox gamer.

[Professor_K]

Unfortunalty you need to be always online to play mp

the audacity of you people.

[Ra3v3r]

"Do we really want to spend hundreds maybe thousands on a game library that will be at the mercy of a third party to continue support, which eventually will stop?"

Don't we do this every time we buy technology? Support isn't indefinite for anything we buy, eventually it all becomes obselete. How many games on your PC/PS2/XBOX etc etc that have online components still work today?

Personally I'm excited by the potential but that's all it is just now - potential. MS are trying something different to improve the user experience just as Sony are improving the user experience by rolling out programs like OS preview and offering a fort of BC with PS Now.

Will the Azure services always work? No. Will it always improve the experience? No. But at least they're trying something new to advance technology. When it becomes the norm for every games console and always works we'll all look back and laugh at how much we resisted the change and ultimately that's all it is - resistance to change.

If we didn't eventually embrace change and advancement we'd still be playing Pong.

[LamerTamer]

@FlexLuger

"My console is always connected to the internet. I dont have a problem with it. I also tend to play MP games more than SP games. "

That is you not everyone is like you. I and others are the opposite. I hate online MP games, it is the same old shoot, re-spawn repeat with different "maps" filled with annoying brats. Many prefer a story or SP experiences. Skyrim was great, ES online sucks for example.

" So if you are ina region tjhat sells xbox..and have an internet connection, its a non issue."

Unless like I said you don't want to always be online. I like the CHOICE.

"Two things:
Backwards compatibility has ensured that seven year old games x360 games run on XB1, perfectly. "

You mean pseudo BC. True BC is you put in a game, any game, and it just works. This is you put in a game and it downloads a re-compiled version from the internet IF it is supported, again that connection requirement.

"I dont think in all my years of buying physical games, I was ever in a scenrio where I owned as many games under my TV as I do right now."

Actually you don't own any of the digital titles, MS does, they just give you a (revocable at any time) license to use. Take a few of those games to a friends house to play, or sell the ones you no longer want. Oh yeah you CAN'T due to that lovely DRM.

"lastly:
Owning a disc version of COD doesnt mean you will be able to play it offline if they take the servers down. And speaking of servers, MS has more than anybody in gaming...I aint worried about that, as an xbox gamer."

BS. I can still play COD from the ORIGINAL Xbox. Just put in the disc and play. Of course the MP won't work but all of the campaigns of that and any game will work if you have the disc. Lots of servers doesn't mean they will allocate them to all of the titles either. Many will be re-purposed as time goes on.

[FlexLuger]

@LamerTamer

"That is you not everyone is like you. "

LOL...if they own an xbox, they more than likely are..ever heard of an xbox owner that isnt connected to the internet? Me neither.

"I and others are the opposite."

More than likely because you only own a PS. You bought the right console for you seeing as online gaming is not important YOU.

"Unless like I said you don't want to always be online. I like the CHOICE."

Xbox owners have a choice...clearly you didnt get the memo. You dont actually need to be online to use the xbox. did you forget that in your over opinionated rant? You do know you can trade disc based XB1 games right? stop living in pre reveal 2013, dude..... You are trying to make a point with dead arguments that MS themselves already killed.

"You mean pseudo BC. True BC is you put in a game, any game, and it just works. This is you put in a game and it downloads a re-compiled version from the internet IF it is supported, again that connection requirement."

LOL...just...lMFAO!!! And how does that change the fact that the game runs perfectly on my xbox? And FYI, it does "just work". Im on the preview program and 30 out of my 160-odd difital titles, are already installed on my XB1HDD they will soon all be available to play on My XB1. I still have my X360, but I like options. I like the fact that I am not paying for games I already own VIA a subscription streaming service..you like options, right? BTW...I have yet to see MS take anything back from me in my 8 years on XBL...so your point is dead there too.

"Actually you don't own any of the digital titles, MS does, they just give you a (revocable at any time) license to use."

That is the case with ALL software. even physical. you only own the licence to play it...you cant copy it can you? furthermore I work in music production and every single software plug and sequencer is tied to DRM..these things cost a LOT more than xboxes or playstations...you are not saying anything new. Im pretty sure I understand DRM better than you.

"BS. I can still play COD from the ORIGINAL Xbox. Just put in the disc and play. Of course the MP won't work but all of the campaigns of that and any game will work if you have the disc."

You clearly fail at comprehension. I was referring to the fact that you wont be able to play a disc based version of COD online, with the servers switched off, either.

"Many will be re-purposed as time goes on."

And you will require an internet connection to play them online anyway. What part of all of this are you having a hard time understanding? seriously? What is this? A minute ago you were saying you dont even like online gaming! lol

You are not very consistent in your points and your fears of online gaming are pretty much out of date. And lol about the DRM...you NEVER own what is on that disc either..if I am lying go make a copy of said disc and go sell it...see where you end up..then try telling the court that its yours to do what you please. You cant do nothing with that dis game apart from playing it because by law, you dont own the content on the disc..just the disc and its contents for use as intended. Nothing else...now why do you think that is?

[Ra3v3r]

@lamertamer

"Actually you don't own any of the digital titles, MS does, they just give you a (revocable at any time) license to use."

I risk the wrath of the community here by pointing out the obvious but this isn't exclusive to MS. None of us own the games we've purchased whether it's digital or disc on XBOX, PS or Ninty. Read the EULA or whatever the US/Japanese or whatever equivalent is and they will all state you are merely being provided with a license that may be revoked at any time for various reasons.

"Take a few of those games to a friends house to play, or sell the ones you no longer want. Oh yeah you CAN'T due to that lovely DRM"

This is nonsense. Whether it's digital or physical I can take any of my games to a mates and play them. In fact having a portable HDD for my XB1 has been brilliant for my digital content. Not only that, but if my mate copies it to his console and signs my profile in on his console when I'm not playing he can enjoy the games on his profile as well. As soon as I sign in though he can't. If it's a physical copy he can keep it til I want it back and he can play it with no issues at all, those old MS policies on DRM got canned before launch. As far as I'm aware you can't play games off the HDD on PS4 so your digital content isn't portable but if I'm wrong then fair enough I'll accept it.

As for reselling, this isn't a problem either. I trade titles I no longer want all the time unless of course it's a digital version. Neither MS or Sony allow you to sell your digital content back to them. Don't want to be an ass about it, but despite making some other good points this part really stood out to me as it's a complete fallacy. I was even good enough not to give you a disagree as this was really the only bit that I disagreed with in your entire comment and it's better to say why you disagree with someone rather than fire out disagrees without reasoning.

[Fro_xoxo]

Cloud tech is nice for Xbox ONE and I hope more exclusive titles utilize it to its full potential.

These are the types of attributes that contribute to a console's Identity.

however.... not everything has to be pitted against Sony's PS4.

[PistolsAtDawn]

EXACTLY!!!! Some people don't get that the success of one doesn't mean the downfall of the other.

[pelenow]

Agreed just like BC it is a nice added bonus to an already awesome console. I could care less what happens with ps4, because my XO has more than enough to keep me happy.

[PistolsAtDawn]

Yes, it's a factor, consider it. VR/Ar is a factor, consider it. Games are a factor, consider them. APi's are a factor, consider them. GPU's are a factor, consider them. CPU's are a factor, consider them. UI's (functionality) are a factor, consider them. Controllers are a factor, consider them.

...there are TONS of factors that go into what makes a great console and what may appeal to a gamer. It's clear that cloud resources will make a difference in gaming...how soon/how much is the grey area. Probably sooner than many want to believe and to more extent...but also probably less (at this time) than some want to believe.

I think it will start making a larger impact, esp with MS 1st Party games from here on out...stepping back from Crackdown 3 would be weird...but I think MS won't push straight graphical improvements, just simply helping with things that will take burden away from the CPU. I think the most drastic thing we MAY see with cloud processing this gen is something like Project Irides helping HMD's (if you haven't watched those demo videos with Occulus and HoloLens I highly recommend them). With how coy Kudo was being with "will HMD's do true VR on Xbox"...I have a feeling they are looking into using cloud compute to assist in that...they have the demos available...and the standing comment is "we aren't announcing anything at this time" (and watching the interview where he said that, his grin seemed very telling).

[FallenAngel1984]

I don't think so since you'd have to be online at all times to use the cloud in only a portion of the game as opposed to PS4's raw tech being available at all times

[Foehammer]

As Sony has officially stated:

http://www.gamespot.com/art...

"Tonight during Sony's E3 press conference, SCEA CEO Shawn Layden revealed that 95 percent of PlayStation 4 consoles are connected to the Internet."

Doesn't seem to an issue.

Note that the percentage of connected X1 user will be much higher as X1 is only in 42 Countries while PS4 goes into 124 Countries, many of which have more limited infrastructure.

[gangsta_red]

Interesting, it really is funny to see some folks go crazy over the idea of a console always being online especially considering how many of our other devices are constantly online.

[_-EDMIX-_]

@G-Red- You can't be so naive.

There is a difference between mandatory to and choosing to. Because one is always online, doesn't mean one wants to be locked online as a base feature to play a game.

The exception clearly is a game that actually uses the connection features ie co-op, MP etc.

[r2oB]

@ gangsta red

You know what else is interesting. How Xbox users understand how options are a good thing, especially when it comes to EA access. They like to mention how gamers should have options, which I personally agree with, gamers should have options. But these same people see no issue with a mandatory, always online ecosystem (Xbox One policy prior to the 180). As if having the OPTION to be offline is a bad thing.

Maybe is not so much people don't want to be online all the time, maybe people just want to have the OPTION of being able to use their console offline as they see fit. So the fact that people choose to be online all the time bears little relevance to them being forced to be online all the time.

On topic:
Cloud computing is interesting, and has a lot of potential. But I think it's wise to wait and see the potential fleshed out more in real world conditions, with more games, in more ways, before it should be considered a significant factor. I hope its potential is realized, I'd love to play Xbox One games to their full potential. As a PS4, PC, and newly Xbox One owner I want to get the most out of all my games. As a gamer in general I'd like to see developers push every platform to their respective limits, as it only benefits gamers as a whole.

[gangsta_red]

@E-mix

Naive? Just being realistic. Especially when you have a great number of people who are always online anyways regardless.

@r2oB
"As if having the OPTION to be offline is a bad thing."

Maybe they don't see it necessarily as a bad thing, maybe they just see it as something that isn't an issue since most of the time they're always online and connected to PSN/XBL.

[DarXyde]

gangsta_red,

Cell phones and gaming consoles are completely different animals here. A phone is used to reach people who are traveling and they won't always be home and you need a means to reach them. Gaming consoles already need power to play them and you're stationary. Mandating console connections is a terrible idea and I'm glad Microsoft came to their senses. Playing online, sure. Needing it to be constantly connected is just wrong, but the cloud application is fine.

People often praise Microsoft for their inclusion of backwards compatibility. They gave consumers options. That's fair and smart...so why people would be praising more restrictions is beyond me. If consoles now suddenly required an online connection, I'd go right back to to the sixth and seventh generation. Your information is already in your cell phone carrier's hands. No need to expand on that. One company has had its emails leaked and network service disrupted for an entire month. Another provides information to the NSA.

No thanks. We're not ready for always-online, especially not with these companies.

[gangsta_red]

@Darxyd
"Cell phones and gaming consoles are completely different animals here."

How? When both could be hacked and have just as much personal information taken and used by hackers.

"That's fair and smart...so why people would be praising more restrictions is beyond me."

Who's praising more restrictions? Especially when online access is so easy to come across. Exactly how are you restricted? Because there might be a scenario when your internet goes out? Likely, but even more likely it'll be back up and working properly within the moment.

"Needing it to be constantly connected is just wrong,"

Why?

And before I get everyone screaming and yelling that I'm "defending" always online, I'm just asking a simple why.

"We're not ready for always-online, especially not with these companies."

These companies already have all your information. When you and others signed up to pay to play online when both companies made it mandatory. So these companies already have all your information, how does the console suddenly always being online make any difference?

I'm sure the NSA have many other ways of getting your information that doesn't include gaming consoles.

[Death]

Am I the only one that understands that a once a day check in isn't the same as always on? My PS4 and Xbox One are always online. I don't care how many times they want to check in since they are constantly connected anyway. I do believe gamers should have been given the choice to rip their games and use the daily check in or keep their consoles offline and lose the ability to rip games. That would have been the perfect compromise while still allowing gamers to move forward instead of everyone being forced to use disc based DRM.

[DarXyde]

"How? When both could be hacked and have just as much personal information taken and used by hackers."

Any company can be hacked, but that really doesn't mean we should embrace another means for it to happen. Do you really want to worry about 2 companies compromising your data? I'd rather people embrace the risks as online gamers, not as just gamers.

"Who's praising more restrictions? Especially when online access is so easy to come across. Exactly how are you restricted? Because there might be a scenario when your internet goes out? Likely, but even more likely it'll be back up and working properly within the moment."

I'm speaking outside of personal circumstances. It's a bit of a broad stroke. In some areas, internet access is restricted to one ISP because the area was monopolized. You mandate an online connection and ISPs basically have a tenured market they can gouge on a whim. Even when you do have options, they can always dangle a very attractive offer where it's highly affordable, followed by a price increase the second year where you're locked into a contract with a steep disconnection fee. What's more, ISPs often have data caps. Many people in my area exceed their caps, myself included. I have roommates who are avid streamers on top of heavy online gaming. An always-online connection has peripheral effects that I don't think we're ready to embrace.

"Why?

And before I get everyone screaming and yelling that I'm "defending" always online, I'm just asking a simple why."

My reasons vary but it alienates your fans and potential customers based on socioeconomic status and affordability or even region. It makes some assumptions: (a) you have an internet connection, (b) you're likely an online gamer, and (c) if you're gaming on our platform, you now need to worry about your internet connection and our services where if our services are working but your internet is not or your internet is working but our services are down, you can't do anything.

"These companies already have all your information. When you and others signed up to pay to play online when both companies made it mandatory. So these companies already have all your information, how does the console suddenly always being online make any difference?"

Because it's forced....? In terms of security, it relays information regarding your play time, activities in-game, and accurately captures your interests (single player, multiplayer, local or otherwise, etc.). So what's the problem? That's too much information for the average person who likes to game offline. I unplug my internet when I play offline because no one needs to know all of that. Maybe you don't agree, but to me, that's like telling someone you can hear their heart beating. It's weird and it's intrusive, even if it's meant harmlessly. I don't think people should be required to surrender their privacy to play offline. You can willingly accept terms where you can play online, but forcing it on everyone is the issue. It's a lot like Civil War. I rarely game online but I had a choice to sign up for their networks. Once you remove the choice, that's when the issues become apparent. I believe many gamers felt the same way given the reaction to the Xbox One reveal.

"I'm sure the NSA have many other ways of getting your information that doesn't include gaming consoles."

To reiterate what I wrote earlier, it doesn't mean you should give them another means to do so. You need not perpetuate any issues. I commute for work and I don't even have an EZ Pass. Choice, mate.

[LamerTamer]

And what constitutes "connected to the internet"? I would bet that that 95% is the number that connect at least once. That doesn't mean that those 95% are ALWAYS connected you know. Many will go online sometimes to get updates and patches, then disconnect. Or they will go online if playing MP but then disconnect while playing SP. I do that allot. Connection as a choice is much better than when it is a REQUIREMENT for use.

[joeorc]

@ Foehammer

You are right its not really a issue this is.

Its not being a fanboy or anything like that its sheer numbers.

Xbox live "Subscription"

Gold & silver

http://www.gameinformer.com...

In 2013 was that.

Now take into account how many are gold..than total scale of current 13 million into retail being shipped.

The PS4 and Sony really are not even in this equation.

Its down to live gold subscriber's and install base of Xbox one users, because xbox360 is not the platform being targeted for cloud compute. And also PC is not being targeted. Thus that leaves Xbox one install base being the target platform for this.

Does it show great results? yes.
Is it likely to be employed by the majority of games on the Xbox one platform? Most likely no.

This was more about advertising the Azure's cloud compute service for company's to rent server space.

Not saying it was not smart, but on the same token it took Microsoft this time hell from 2008 look at Xbox live Milestones to reach this number that shows pretty much all xbox360 install base are not even Xbox live subscriber's.

It has taken microsoft a hell of a long time to get to even this point and Sony's 7.9 million playstation + subscriber's are no way near Xbox live paid current number of paid n subscriber's.

So in my opinion its not that even Sony is not even in the equation, its really about the xbox360 install base that has yet to move into the xbox one install base so as to be even able to do such.

The key point do you really think cloud compute function will be for xbox live silver users aldo or is paid subscriber's, for cloud compute the main target for this functionality?

how many of a total 13 million are Infact Gold subscriber's?

That number will have to help offset the costs to employ such a cloud compute method in games and be enough money to be viable unless you think Microsoft would have this be a loss leader in cost for them?

[Foehammer]

@joeorc

Similar to my first post....

You seem to forget that some of the best minds in the world have a specific business model in mind and you are not privy to it; nor, clearly, do you understand it.

Who should i believe, the ppl bringing and demonstrating the tech, or known haters?

Easy choice.

It's coming, prepare yourself.

[FallenAngel1984]

@ Foe

Why are you using percentage of users connected to the internet? Fact is that the cloud cannot beat the practical use of raw hardware which is available to all users at all times. You cannot use the cloud in single player campaigns or offline multiplayer modes.

[Professor_K]

Ps4' raw tech is plausible compared to high ends

[Rimeskeem]

Im just wondering why it has to be against the PS4?

[poppinslops]

Because they're direct competitors.

[Rimeskeem]

true

[poppinslops]

Sure - I think it's the greatest innovation of this current console generation... but this is 'war' and some people will never be happy.

[Rimeskeem]

The fact you call this a "war" kind of makes me sad

[joeorc]

But as I pointed out, Sony really along with PlayStation are not even in this equation, its about the fact in 2013 the total number of Xbox live subscriber's was at over 46 million, that was gold+silver, that means pretty much half of all xbox360's were not even subscribed to silver or gold!

Now take into account only slightly over 13 million Xbox ones has been shipped into retail. How many Xbox one's has been sold and with how many of those xbox one user base that are are concurrent
Xbox live gold subscriber's will be the real deciding factor in this.

If its even going to be employed in a majority of the Xbox one exclusives.

Some may say well its for the PC also ..

Is it? Take for instance if Pc is also going to take advantage of this , which is fine why get an Xbox one? Its about trying to make the difference stand out in your platform not dilute it right?

Right now Microsoft is marketing it as a Xbox one feature, not a xbox360 feature or PC feature, but Microsoft also stated windows 10 and Xbox are a unified platform..right?

So again which platform is this really for? Both?

Than if So it would not matter what Sony is doing because its designed for Microsoft's core platform which is Windows OS powered devices.

So thus its not just an Xbox one feature right?

So developers can port to both PC and xbox one right?

But here again is the thing is if this feature is for gold subscription service will it be free for PC and Xbox one users are fitting the bill for it?

So as for it to even be viable?
If its a loss leader than, how much would that be in Millions?
That's the main point. If the Xbox one install base does not grow by sizeable amount, what would Microst do. Keep it just for some games maybe here and than or pretty much all of them?

I'm not saying its not feasible to Microsoft to do it, what I am simply pointing out is the higher ups above The Xbox division over @ Microsoft is going to look at cost vs profit. And the more investment into such for a single game must net more profit than investment or its a bust.

The fact of it will boil down to Xbox one gold subscriber's numbers to be the main deciding factor and as it stands right now the Xbox one I doubt has enough gold subscriber's to cover costs if server usage for compute will relying on sales of the game and the usage of concurrently user base month to month on that game.

Vs internal cost to employ for Microsoft itself. To be viable in return profit.

[beans]

Because that's the competition. Sony and its fans talked about power for years and now they can actually watch or play it on X1 ironically and see what power really means.

[poppinslops]

Bingo... that's a bingo.

[LamerTamer]

As long as you are always online, have a good fast connection, and as long as the servers still support the game. If those aren't the case the X1 is still weaker. One has the power inside the other supplements it with an always online connection to someone else's server AKA "cloud".

Before spiking the ball in the end zone and taking a victory lap though you should wait and see how things work out. CD3 had a demo in a room with optimal conditions and all servers working perfectly and a nice direct connection. When this gets out in the real world with thousands of players all with varying levels of connection quality things may not be so rosy. They may be fine, but maybe not.

[CBaoth]

Could it also be conceivable that some of us prefer to utilize what we have now in front of us rather than wait an entire console lifecycle to experience this tech? For two years, that's all we've heard; cloud computing and now DX12. Crackdown3 drops next Xmas, remind me when is the first XB1 DX12 title scheduled to release? It'll be our 4th Xmas XB1s have been under the tree by the time we experience what the fans have been touting as killer next gen features. Ironic considering the xbox fanboys turned Sony's slogan "Greatness Awaits" against them. Pot meet kettle I say.

[Blashted]

I would love to see the cloud be used more for Xbox One games and Xbox Live. It really could bring innovation to games. I wish my PS4 had cloud infrastructure such as this, to be used to better the experience, instead of PS Now :(

[3ndulg3]

You got a lot of nerves for stating you wish your ps have cloud.It's easy just get you a xbox one as well I'm sure you wont be sorry for doing so.

[Blashted]

im planning on picking one up this fall to go along side my ps4,wiiu,and pc

[uth11]

All cloud is is remote internet servers doing computations for games. PS4 can use remote servers for multiplayer, so theres nothing technical stopping it from doing the same for computation.

The main barrier is cost of running all those servers for all those gamers. I think this is the reason cloud usage will be in a limited number of games even on XB1

[Blashted]

and since the rest of sony is dirt poor no way they could afford

[xxjabberxx]

http://www.polygon.com/2013...

Maybe the ps4 can

[FoxyGotGame]

Cloud Tech is awesome and will definitely improve online experiences by enhancing games. Will it be a factor this gen in terms of surpassing PS4 sales? Probably not. But I can see The Cloud being standardized by the time the Next Xbox/Platforms roll around.

The way some X1 games look so incredible (Quantum Break) without the cloud, I really don't see it as something that is urgently required to compete with PS4. Cloud Computing is definitely the way to go in the future, and being that it's in its infancy right now, I kinda think of X1 as the Beta system for Cloud Gaming Technology. With all these advances like AR/VR/Cloud ...as Gamer's, we've never had it so good /

[Drithe]

It will do nothing to Sony. Many people only want to play offline stuff. It is as dead in the water as Sony's PS Now.

End of line.

[KiwiViper85]

People wanting to be offline are in the minority.

I love singleplayer games, don't get me wrong. But I can't have a console not connected to the internet. Consoles do so much more than just games now. Anyone without a connection is missing out, they just don't know it yet...

How many people own a computer that is not connected to the internet? What would you use it for? Word? Solitaire?

[beans]

It doesn't need to do anything to Sony. This is great news because it will give us choices and more of reason to own dual consoles. I prefer being online playing games in an unpredictable scalable since while others may just want to stay offline and experience gaming differently. X1 for me (in my opinion ) will be vastly superior than PS4 once games start truly utilizing this tech. Sales are good for Sony but the overall experience is what really matters for gamers I believe.

[raggy-rocket]

Why should it be even if it were better. The cloud is something DIFFERENT. PS4 is a different experience to Xbox one, not a better or worse one. Why does EVERYTHING need to be pit against each other, why can’t you just like both. PS4 can’t use cloud to the same extent in this manner, so there’s not even anything to pit it against.
That said, it IS too early to even consider cloud as an advantage of the Xbox One. I PERSONALLY think it will grow to become something great across gaming multiplayer and occasionally single player, but it could turn out to be a one hit (crackdown) wonder. Why don’t we at least wait until Crackdown is out and we’ve seen more evidence of games using it to benefit them in a significant way before jumping to conclusions

[level 360]

I don't really like Cloud.

It's not as safe nor secure as everyone's been led to believe.

[ha8eraid]

Nothing is safe or 100% failsafe if you believe it is you are naive. Everyday you open your door walk outside your infomation and life is at risk so cause it's not safe isn't a reason to not like it.

[ApocalypseShadow]

all microsoft is doing is following what sony would have originally planned with the ps4.but because of ken kutaragi being cast out because of the cost of ps3 and the r&d behind it,sony had to approach ps4 differently.

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.j...

The network of today still remains a means to access information. The time will come, however, when the network itself becomes a computer. So far, we have pursued how to improve the performance of a single chip, but we are now becoming aware of the limits that loom there. Once you suppose that the network is a computer, what you have to do is to improve the computing performance of the network as a whole. This is s paradigm shift. Be it on-chip, on-board, or on-network, chips will be infinitely connected -- and that is what this "Cell" is all about.

ken's head was in the clouds way before any crackdown announcement.not saying microsoft wasn't pursuing similar ideas.but we see last gen microsoft copying cell tech for xbox360 and going with ibm like sony did.some say microsoft stole the tech through snooping.but that's another story.but when you see microsoft having commercials pushing cloud for cancer,but sony already did that using ps3 and folding at home,it's nothing new to sony gamers.

no one isn't saying it won't work.it's an innovative idea.but i wouldn't rely on it for all games.networks are attacked constantly now.xbl and psn are attacked almost daily and gamers are complaining they can't go online.it will be worse waiting for your game to recalculate A.I. or physics when the net drops.

but it's seems to be not as necessary when you have ps4 already calculating weather,physics and A.I. without using cloud.drive club,horizon,etc,show that a powerful system doesn't need the net when a game is coded right.only a weaker system would need assistance to keep up.when you see turn 10 taking 10 years just to do night racing and weather,you know someone's behind the curve.especially when gt1 had night racing.and gt5 had weather.

cloud will benefit some games,but will not help microsoft catch sony in any way when they are losing in every country that counts in sales.

[beans]

Complete and total nonsense! At first it wasn't possible to now MS had spies and Sony was doing it 1st. At least you're trying to say good job MS but you sound full of disbelief and grumpy like a cramp. X1 was built this way for a reason and no more powerful hardware in PS4 can do anything close to cloud computations.

Honestly I shouldn't be saying all of this because CD3 isn't even out yet. PS4 is a great console with some of the best developers ever working on it but come on man! Stop with the BS and just admit this is one area MS seems to have done right over Sony. Also no matter how many consoles are sold on PS4 you will more than likely never experience the gaming possibilities through cloud computing available through X1. We haven't even seen what's possible yet or dx12 so no need to sound so upset. My apologies to those who may take my comment the wrong way. This was only directed at Apocalypse .

[ApocalypseShadow]

beans,microsoft is not a company that takes risks.they follow successful patterns.

they patterned 360 after ps2.
they pattern xbox 1 after ps3.

"all in one?"
yeah."it only does everything."oh,and i hope you're enjoying that bluray.

if they have all that money,they should be more risk taking than what you see.gamers say sony is broke.but it's weird that all that risk taking and money spending rewards them.

sony's first party is allowed to take risks.microsoft waited years to put out more first party when everyone last gen said they should.

microsoft is only patterning cloud after what ken was going to implement with ps3 and ps4.it is not new.dedicated servers is not new.large hdd swaps are not new.bluray is not new.giving away games for paying for online is not new.(we can thank microsoft for paying for that)

if you were a playstation fan,you seen all this already.including cloud crunching numbers.

[Death]

GT5 had weather, but they only had 200 "premium" cars of the 1000+ available that were enhanced for the game. I don't remember a night time mode in the original GT either. It's not listed on the back of the box or in any review I read. Got anything to back that up?

[ApocalypseShadow]

https://www.youtube.com/wat...
https://www.youtube.com/wat...

google is your friend death.you should try it.

[beans]

Well Apocalypse I take back some of my rant. This part about Ken thinking in the clouds is interesting. Makes me think Sony may have its own answer to cloud not far away and if CD3 impresses we will all have a crazy next gen for sure.

[joeorc]

@beans

You do know the PS4 has SPUR's right?
You do know they modded the AMD GPU on a hardware level to mimic the SPE's of the Cell Processor but instead of it being on the CPU its instead its right on the PS4's GPU!

Mark Cerny talked about this.
The Playstation 4 was designed as a cloud graphics GP/GPU clustering grid.

Its built and designed to "stream" to Mobile! From the get Go because of playstation Now, and remote play.

Both have cloud compute, and both went about it another way from each other, that also means that both employ cloud compute in very specifically geared way to bolster their IP across their eco systems.

[b1nary_B0SS]

@Apocalypse Shadow:

Your statement,” but because of ken kutaragi being cast out because of the cost of ps3 and the r&d behind it, sony had to approach ps4 differently.”, is incorrect.

Ken was not demoted, fired or “cast out”. He stepped down and resigned. His resignation was driven by frictions between himself and other executives who ignored his constant calls to drop certain copy protections in order to improve the fortunes of Sony’s consumer electronics division, which the following demonstrates:

2/8/2006 - businessweek: http://www.bloomberg.com/bw...
… Friends and ex-colleagues say Kutaragi was dispirited. "I know that Kutaragi told Stringer that he wanted to quit," says one former Sony exec who spoke on condition of anonymity.

INTERNAL GADFLY… Kutaragi had publicly berated Sony execs for the company's go-it-alone strategy on everything from digital music players to movies. He lobbied hard to get rid of copyright protections that made shuffling digital content between gizmos a headache. Privately, he expressed frustration at the internal resistance to his efforts to reform the consumer-electronics division.

4/26/2007 - SCEI: http://www.scei.co.jp/corpo...
Ken Kutaragi …will retire from his executive position at SCEI effective June 19, 2007… Mr.Kutaragi will pass on the torch to the next generation, stepping back from his executive management responsibility of the company to serve as Honorary Chairman of SCEI. With his deep and instinctive insight into future technology, Mr. Kutaragi will also continue to support Sir Howard Stringer, Chairman and CEO, Sony Corporation, as senior technology advisor.

4/27/2007 - WSJ: http://www.wsj.com/articles...
Richard Doherty, an analyst at the Envisioneering Group who knows Mr. Kutaragi well, says his decision to step down could also reflect Mr. Kutaragi's fatigue from years of internal battles. Mr. Doherty said he detected a change in Mr. Kutaragi's mood last year when he met with him at a conference. "I think his first seeds of getting tired of shouting were showing to me," he said.

[b1nary_B0SS]

@Apocalypse Shadow:

Furthermore, Ken currently serves as senior technology advisor of Sony in support of Kaz Hirai and remains influential within SCE, according to Andrew House:

6/29/2011- SCEI: http://www.scei.co.jp/corpo...
Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) today announced the appointment of Kazuo Hirai,President and Group CEO, as Chairman, and Andrew House, President, CEO and Co-COO of Sony Computer Entertainment Europe (SCEE), as President and Group CEO of SCEI, effective September 1, 2011… It was also announced that as of June 28, Ken Kutaragi has retired from his role as Honorary Chairman of SCEI.*

*Kutaragi will continue in his role as senior technology adviser of Sony Corporation.

7/11/2014 - @~58:09 - 59:04 - Andrew House: https://www.youtube.com/wat...
I actually remain in pretty close touch with Ken. He was in the office on Monday. I wanted to show him some stuff…He offered advice and perspective prior to the launch event…he was one of my mentors early in my career in the organization…He’s really pleased about the way that PlayStation 4 has shaped up. I think that he feels that it’s in keeping with his original vision for the organization, we get some tremendous support from him…

[b1nary_B0SS]

@Apocalypse Shadow:

As for your statement, “but we see last gen microsoft copying cell tech for xbox360 and going with ibm like sony did.some say microsoft stole the tech through snooping.”, it is also incorrect.

The claim by some that Microsoft stole CELL tech through snooping is invalid. Although X360’s Xenon CPU consists of 3 symmetrical PowerPC based cores that are similar to CELL’s single PowerPC based PPU core, CELL’s SPUs are fundamental to CELL and make it an asymmetrical heterogeneous C/GPU wholly unique unto itself. David Shippy, chief architect of CELL’s PowerPC core, spoke to this in an interview which you can find here:

1/16/2009 – Gamasutra/David Shippy: http://www.gamasutra.com/vi...
Does that mean Microsoft got a look at the Cell itself? "No, we didn't show them the Cell chip," Shippy clarifies. "The Cell itself and the fundamental architecture that went into that, actually not -- that was all proprietary for PS3. What was shown to Microsoft was just a technology road map that said, 'hey, we can go do these high-performance PowerPC cores at very high frequency and low power'."

"In no way did IBM say anything about the fundamental architecture of the Cell chip; it was more about introducing Microsoft to the circuit design technology that enabled us to create these really fast processors."

[i3eyond the Circle]

http://graphinesoftware.com...

Future of Xbox One using Microsofts investment into Azure.

Sure the tech is available for all platforms but only one can bring it to the living room.

[FreddyFazbear]

Yeah keep the xbox one propaganda going. Cloud, DX12, secret sauce etc. Will not make xbox a worldwide sensation than the playstation brand but the media and fanboys can try. There's no harm in dreaming.

[Death]

I'm not sure that the Xbox not being a worldwide sensation makes it "bad". Are you saying sales is the metric that defines a console as being best? I have a Wii which was a worldwide sales phenomenon. Does that mean it was the best console last gen?

[FreddyFazbear]

Shallow arguments needs embarassing answers: If that's your logic, then How do you explain PSone era dominated N64 and sega saturn with sales plus quality games, PS2 era Killed dreamcast and made orig xbox on lifeline. Many gamers i mean almost every gamer admitted that PS2 is one of the greatest of all time. final fantasy, GTA, metal gear, Devil may cry etc. almost all notable games are on the Playstation catalog and not on xbox. The Wii is an exception. It sold not because of numerous quality games but the demographics such as little kids and mothers, fathers, grandpas which are "Casuals" like the "Motion gaming" trend at that time. But when mobile gaming like smartphone and tablets came it died down, nintendo thought they could steal another thunder with Wii-U. And yes most of the time, sales indicate that a product is superior if not better all the time. And this time PS4 sold not because of gimmicks, or casuals but because "Core gamers" saw the real deal. Don't tell me the people who bought a PS4 are clueless gamers who does not know which is best? Who are we to judge what people wants? It just turned out PS4 is the prefered console worldwide even in North America. So there you have it.

[nitus10]

Wii was the best selling standard definition console for the last generation although the last generation really was about high definition which for the PS3 and XBox360 was 720p and 1080p.

If you want to compare apples to apples then the Wii should be compared against the PS2 and it has not even come close to the PS2 lifetime sales.

I do think that the Wii should get an award for the best controller that is capable of damaging a HDTV. :-)

[parentsbasement]

I hope they just do away with the "cloud" because it requires me to have an internet connection....to get one , I have to string two tin cans together and stretch one to my neighbors house , offer to cut his grass , then come back to my house and jump on the bicycle thingy I use to power it....and pedal like there is no tomorrow, and its hard to maintain a good connection that way , so , I'm against it...

[pelenow]

Whatever helps you sleep at night Freddy.

[Perjoss]

At first the Cloud will be pretty weak, but later on there is so much power, I remember near the end of FF VII I was able to kill most enemies in just a couple of hits with him.

[PFFT]

lol, nice one!

[GNCFLYER]

I hope for you xbox gamers it is, I just don't think it will be. It's very expensive to use this, so how many 1st party games will actually do it. It just doesn't seem financially sustainable for the division.

There is no replacement for the local machine. To many things can interfere between your console and the cloud.

I've used psnow and remote play extensively and everything runs great for a while then a hiccup occurs. It will happen with this as well, the infrastructure just isn't there yet.

But it's a promising technology, and very expensive.

[Eidolon]

Couldn't Sony legally do something similar?

[Death]

With enough money and the right talent behind them they could absolutely do it. It would take years though and Sony doesn't seem to be in a hurry to give profits away.

[thoract]

Why do you people think that MS is the only company with talented engineers? You people are so narrow minded. All companies have talented engineers working for them.

Only time will tell if MS's engineers are truly the masters of the cloud. Just wait for the game to come out. A controlled demo is not exactly proof that this is great tech. But a beta test would be good proof. I'm not saying it is not great tech. If the cloud makes the xbox1 10-20 more powerful, I'd would go buy one today. Provided they have games I want to play.

[3ndulg3]

Yes but at what cost but you bet your hind side sony is scrambling to find a answer.

[joeorc]

Sony did raytracing volumetric cloud rendering on the fly in warhawk on the PS3 last cycle, along with using PS3's themselves as dedicated servers for the game itself. Sony has been employing grid clustering computing for gaming well before the ps4..hell look up GSCube

That was a grid clustering of PS2's!

The point is to do what Microsoft is doing is expensive in compute cost , could Sony employ such a method on a game by game basis like they did with warhawk..sure would it be cost effective?

Most likely no, Question: because warhawk servers live or no?
That's really the answer yes you can do cloud compute, hell with Gaikai they Infact can do cloud compute if they want to switch from streaming mainly cloud compute using gaikai servers on limelight sure they could. Would it be cost effective ..no

Also

@MrKrispy

"if you don't pay to play online ,well ,you can't play with us" is also the case with the ps4 if you want to play online mp as you need either ps+ or xbl gold "

Not completely true, planet side 2 is online multiplayer and its free, DCU universe the same..you are not required to have a PSN+ to play Multiplayer on the PS4 there is online multiplayer online gaming for the PS4 that does not require a PS+ account. So no its not completely true that you have to have PS+ in order to play online multiplayer. Hell remote share play also

[ApocalypseShadow]

the problem is microsoft and the way they always seem to be excluding audiences.it may work in connected countries,but everyone else has to miss out on the fun.

if you don't like what we are doing,there's always the 360.

if you don't pay for online,well,you can't play with us.

if you aren't connected to the internet,your game will be limited.

if you don't like american games,there's always the wii and ps4.

it's why they will always play second fiddle.when you don't cater to everyone,your sales will always be limited.shame with all that money they have.they could be doing better than they already are.

the cloud will not show any real improvements until ps5 and xbox two come out.and being that ps4 is in first like xbox360 was,most developers will not touch it unless they want to limit their sales.

just like when 360 fans said "why would game developers spend extra money making better games on ps3 cell?"my answer to that is:

why would they spend extra making cloud games and not being able to port it to the market leading ps4?it's all on microsoft on this.just like sony first parties had to do last gen.

[Death]

Pushing technology forward always alienates someone. Look at how they "forced" broadband for gaming at a time when Sony was content letting people play on dialup with an optional modem. If you wanted to play online with the Xbox you had to get broadband for the included Ethernet port. If you were cutting edge at the time you bought the wireless adapter. They then added insult to injury by forcing people to pay for their online matchmaking service. Prior to this it was a free for all for online gaming on consoles. Microsoft brought these unpopular standards to gaming and Sony followed. Cloud compute will be no different. You will get the nay-sayers that claim it's unfair, but before long more people and territories will have access to these things.

[nitus10]

Rubbish. Sony, Nintendo and even Microsoft for that matter don't have control over the Internet and this is still the case.

Basically if you had dial-up that is what you service provider gave you and it is the same for ADSL, Broadband or even Wireless. The console that has an Ethernet/wireless connection has no idea what type of Internet connection you have and doesn't care although as the player you would care.

I won't deny that the original Xbox has an Ethernet connection while for the PS2 you had to purchase the Ethernet connection module but like the Xbox you still had to purchase a game that had on-line support. I actually do have a PS2 game that does have on-line support but I have never used it although I have played the game.

BTW. Microsoft in the early 1990's did make a grab for the Internet and pretty much all major institutions such as Universities and Research Organisations gave them the binary 4 salute.

[Kiwi66]

"if you don't pay to play online ,well ,you can't play with us" is also the case with the ps4 if you want to play online mp as you need either ps+ or xbl gold and inregard to your 3rd line that applies to any online mp regardless so why single out xbox as you make it seem like xbox is the only one that requires you to have an internet connection

[OC_MurphysLaw]

So until there is a game out there that is really using it the way they envision it as in crackdown 3 I think you can't really consider it yet. That said absolutely for the future

[REDDURT]

Sales say not

[XeyedGamer]

To, Joe.... No

[Azzanation]

For gamers who love online multiplayer then I would say yes. Those who don't wont make a difference.

[corroios]

Not really, because the Xbox One is not fighting with the PS4 for the first spot.

There isnt even a fight between Sony and Microsoft this gen. The diference is huge, colossal and getting bigger as i write. The numbers of the Xbox One are close to the wii U and not the PS4.

The PS4 could stop selling for a Year and still be number one.

Some gamers still dont understand that this gen gamers already decided wich is the number one game machine.

Cloud, Dx12, ESram, CPU, Azure doesnt make any difference, because the Xbox One is being crushed in every market from day one. Thats why they are 25 million PS4 and just 13 Xbox One... easy to see.

[IrishSt0ner]

Objectively PC is the number one platform for gaming with a 900 million strong userbase that generates more revenue than all of the consoles combined.

I hope you remember this fact the next time you try to claim what is the 'number one game machine'.

[cd1]

Make that 8,999,999 users as none of my PCs have any games installed on them, this number may have to be amended furthermore as I assume i'm not the only one.

[corroios]

Dude, im talking of consoles. This news is between PS4 and Xbox One. Where is PC here.

[IrishSt0ner]

"Dude, im talking of consoles."

"Some gamers still dont understand that this gen gamers already decided wich is the number one game machine."

Then re-word your statement to number one games console, PCs are gaming machines too. I made that very clear the first time.

@CD1 - http://www.forbes.com/sites...

There are literally billions of PCs in circulation, Windows had an install base of 1.25 Billion in 2011. So you're absolutely wrong, your assumption is meaningless when pubically available statistical evidence says otherwise.

Plus the number you wrote is one below 9 million, I said 900 million lol.

[cd1]

Ha ha angry little ginger spud picker!

[IrishSt0ner]

Your saltiness is hilarious, you throw racist insults when you lose an argument, man you must be in a bad place.

[sizeofyou]

Technically speaking, I would guess that the mobile phone market is possibly bigger but I don't know? I have 6 mobile phones in my house and only 1 desktop and 1 laptop. Appreciate that businesses harbour enormous numbers of desktops but don't allow gaming generally! Either way, both PC's and mobiles are multi-functional and may not be used for gaming whatsoever!

Gaming income is subjective. According to Hexus it's yet to happen, but predicted:
http://hexus.net/gaming/new...

We'll see. I play games on PC and console BTW. Don't really care for the argument - people play on whatever they want or whatever they can!

[IrishSt0ner]

Yea you're spot on the mobile phone market being much larger then the PC market, although it's my understanding it doesn't generate more gaming revenue due to the lower cost associated with the games (i.e. $1 games as opposed to Console/PCs typical $40-60).

http://uk.ign.com/articles/...

That NEXUS referenced data is alluding to 'PC games sold'. The article itself shows PC is larger:

"worldwide PC games sales are supposed to add up to $29 billion, while console games sales should reach $28 billion by the end of 2016"

And then:

"In terms of DLCs, PC users expected to vastly outspend console gamers at $21.8 billion compared to $2.4 billion."

So that's showing PC is predicted to be significatly larger when factoring in DLC, but it still leaves out subscription and F2P based revenue, which is also very large on PC. It also leaves out 'hardware' which PC genertates double that of consoles:

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/r...

It's fairly clear that PC gaming market is the largest today.

Yea I play on consoles daily, as well as PC, and even mobile every other day. Which platform is better for you is purely subjective, I enjoy playing games no matter the platform... I wouldn't ever belittle someone for their choice of how they want to have fun gaming.

I'm only brought up the PC as the guy was gloating about the PS4 being the number one gaming machine when in reality, by itself, it only makes up a fraction of the size of the PC gaming market.

[cd1]

I'm sure Cloud computing can theoretically do things the PS4 Jaguar CPU cannot but given the choice id still rather have the PS4 GPU at my disposal. This is obviously just my opinion.

[nitus10]

No, Cloud computing can only argument the existing software that is running on a particular device. It cannot improve on the hardware.

Anyone who thinks otherwise should apply to the Bursar at the Unseen University, Ankh-Morpork although I have heard that their entrance exams can be quite challenging assuming you finish as a human. The Librarian can vouch for that. :-)

[cd1]

...you been sniffing glue?

[cd1]

How can somebody disagree with a question? - f*cking simpleton.

[Nischayraval]

It mIght be too early to put EVERY THING ON THE CLOUD ......

[Nischayraval]

WE SHOULD WAIT FOR SOME TIME AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.....

[Nischayraval]

BEING SO FAST MAY NOT BE GOOD.....

[WitWolfy]

I'm confused so without cloud you get like a 1/3 of the textures and graphics, correct? So that means all Xbox one games are on minimum requirements without the cloud to begin with.

[S2Killinit]

I wonder if the cloud is just DRM repackaged. I guess ut will come down to uses will end up being implimented and if they are worth the trade off.

As for now there is no telling.

[TKCMuzzer]

Not this generation. It has to be mainstream and usable in both single player and multiplayer elements of a game. It has to become not only extremely stable, fast enough not to cause issues but also cost effective enough that third party devs use it without to much consideration.
It will be a few years before this happens mainly due to the worlds internet infrastructure and by then will probably become the basis for both companies when entering the 'next gen'.

[assdan]

Everything points to the tech not being good enough yet to actually be practically implemented.

[thexmanone]

Do tell

[mark_parch]

all we have been hearing from ps4 owners over the last 2 years is ms cloud can't do shit and now they have proved it does they are telling everyone ps4 can do it. Yes ps4 could do it if they invested in it but I guarantee that will not happen during this gen

[Spikeantestor]

So I'm wondering if MS has a gimped system (compared to PS4) because they didn't design the thing to run on the hardware only. I'm sure MS wouldn't admit to it but has anyone heard anything like this?

[no_more_heroes]

Well, it certainly has some incredible implications for everything multiplayer related.

I'm quite intrigued to see what comes of this...

[ShaolinDude]

Only if they develop good games that make good use of the cloud technology. At least that is my opinion about it. Technology is important, but in the end it's what developers do with that technology that counts. So let's hope they will.

[theFAYEsorceress]

does it require you to have an internet connection? like, if your internet goes down, does it effect the games that would use it?

[JasonKCK]

Doesn't the internet require an internet connection?

2+2=4

[jay2]

Poeople seem to forget, Sony do cloud too, EG saves, PSNOW etc...
chobitDOLLFIE YES!

[thexmanone]

Doing game saves and streaming is not the same as what they are doing.

[ScorpiusX]

Don't know about the rest of the world , add this to First party games and a few 3rd party that have the balls to use the Tech next gen am onboard and ready to buy all.

[DougLord]

Yes the cloud is something Sony is INCAPABLE of and unwilling to do this gen. It is by far the biggest, most next gen technology in existence. It is literally giving you more power then my $3,000 PC. Anyone that denies this cares more about winning a stupid console war then playing great games. If you live in the country side and have bad Internet NO SOUP FOR YOU! Guess what you also need reliable electricity to play Xbox! Next gen will be 100% cloud. Now it needs to be put into more games.