Peter Moore Recalls Sony Announcing PS3 Price Point of $599: We Were All Partying Backstage

The last gen console cycle was a complete opposite of the current gen. Sony literally struggled with the PlayStation 3 for the first few years with some terrible PR decisions and lack of quality games.

[Rimeskeem]

599 dollars well spent

[gameseveryday]

Not really. It was a horrible decision by Sony. But somehow they turned it around.

[Rimeskeem]

Yes really, spent thousands upon thousands of hours on my PS3 playing games like Uncharted, God of War, Infamous, Killzone, Heavenly Sword, MAG, R and C, LBP, Jak, etc....

Games I could not find anywhere else.

[breakpad]

PS3 was an excellent beast.....count the PS3games now ?? it was worth it...and if the lazy japanese devs (like Wada from Square) didnt sabotage PS3 switching sides with the Xbox1.5..(aka X360) ..the current gen of consoles wouldnt have started so early and PS3 could have numerous more quality games

[attilayavuzer]

@rimeskeem those games all played great on my $199 slim

[Aloren]

It was still a horrible decision from a video game business perspective. They struggled to impose a new format that the competition didn't support, it was simply too early.

Think about it this way: if they PS3 had come out when it did but with a dvd player and a $400 price point, it would have absolutely crushed the 360 with its name alone, and I'm willing to bet the gen would have ended like the PS2 gen (and probably like this gen will) with a huge PS domination.

Now I'm glad they did push the bluray and we got great games, but it sure didn't help their market share...

[TWB]

@attilayavuzer

Or if you couldnt wait so long for the super slim (must be with that price?) you could have just picked the regular slim for 299 in 2009. Even after the PS3 release everything was fine in PS2 land for a couple of years and with the massive backlog PS2 had, Im sure those 2-3 years waiting for PS3 to drop price went like a breeze.

[freshslicepizza]

599 and sony still lost money on each system sold. they basically lost all profits from the ps2 era with the ps3. even now after 9 years sony can't get the price below $200.

but now we can reflect on this generation where it's sony who were dancing when the xbox one was revealed for $499. sony has done a remarkable turnaround.

[rashada07]

Sony needed to win the format wars and *had to put a bluray player in it thus high cost (one reason at least).

[uptownsoul]

"“I also remember E3 [2006] when Jack Tretton and Kaz Hirai announced $599 and we were all back stage, partying…hooo hoo! We knew then that we had the opportunity to get ahead, drive ahead and get our games ahead and get the lead. And I said the first to get to 10 million wins.” -- Peter Moore (5th paragraph) --

"…first to get to 10 million wins." If we use Peter Moore's metric today, does that mean PS4 has already won?

[Sevir]

The only reason why Sony's PS3 is stuck at $199, is because of Nvidia... They want to keep collecting the same price for the RSX, even though the cost of manufacturing has dropped, they are still charging the production assembly of the chip as off it were $300... So is breaking even on the slim but that's by virtue of Damn near everything shrinking while the RSX has largely stayed at 65nm process... Everything else is down to 45nm.. this is the reason why Sony, MS and Minty have all gone with AMD, and why MS dropped support of the original XB, they went with NVidia and they refused to drop production and manufacturing costs of the XB gpu... Sony and MS learned their lesson with Nvidia, that's why Nvidia is salty and has zero business with console gaming.

We will have sub $200 8th gen consoles because manufacturing costs for AMD cpu and gpu have significantly cheaper manufacturing process, and AMD aren't dicks about profit margins because they are ready profit from their partnership with the big three.

[SnakeCQC]

The ps3 came with a blu ray player and had a vastly lower break down level......

[xHeavYx]

You'd think that MS would have learnt from Sony's mistake. Instead, they made the same mistake with the One.

[morganfell]

Does Peter Moore recall people like myself paid $599...and that was it?

Or does he recall how they danced for joy knowing they had the Rent America crowd locked up.

Launch 360. Did you want multiplayer with that? Add 7 years of Live. Want HDMI? Well there is a trade in and you lose money. What about WiFi? Ooops. Forbid you should want a larger HDD. I remember standing in Best Buy with a 1TB drive for my PS3 in hand and the guy in front of me was paying almost twice for the 360 HDD and nowhere near the space.

In the long run that $599 worked out to be far cheaper. So many people are short range gratification types. I am not knocking those that bought a 360 at launch. I did. I am looking at those persons that think the 360 was a cheaper machine.

Of course we aren't even talking about downtime due to RROD. I wonder if Peter Moore was celebrating when they shelled out a billion for that? Or the play and charge batteries that died constantly. Nor are we mentioning the HD DVD player...

[Loktai]

@attilayavuzer

Years later, without backward compatibility and honestly who cares?

[freshslicepizza]

@morganfell

the ps3 came out later which explains things like the lack of hdmi on earlier models of the xbox 360. the same thing occurred during the ps2 when the first xbox came out. that system was far more advanced, had a built in hard drive, broadband support, 4 player controller support and a better audio chip. all for the same price as the ps2 and the ps2 also went through hardware design errors like the dreaded disk read error . the ps3 by comparison was more advanced as well along with bluray support but the system was also $600 or $500 compared to the xbox 360 which at the time cost $300 and $400.

also because the xbox 360 was doing well it forced sony to redesign the ps3 and come out with a cheaper model. now we see the ps4 doing better and forcing microsoft to drop their price.

the moral of the story? competition is a good thing.

[ShinMaster]

People forget that you could also get a PS3 for $499 at launch. You didn't have to get the Premium version.

PS3 was still cheaper in the long run, considering that you had to pay for XBL, WiFi adapter, Play and Charge kit and proprietary HDD for 360. You could have a 1TB HDD on your PS3 and it would still be cheaper.
They had everyone fooled. But eventually, the PS3 outsold the 360 anyway.

Moral of the story? PlayStation is a bigger brand than Xbox worldwide. Always was. Even when it was at a disadvantage with the PS3. And yes, competition is good.

[No Way]

Rimeskeem - Here's the issuse. You could have STILL played all those games on the same platform but waited till it was $399. Save $200. $600 was pretty ridiculous, it's the same exact games on a $100 PS3. But, to each their own, I suppose. :P

[WelkinCole]

Business wise it was bad for them but personally it was the best dam purchase I made ever. Better than my PS4 purchase even. Love my 60giger fatty. Still kicking and alive right next to my PS4

The thing was I also bought a 1080p TV back then and oh boy did I love Blu-Ray. Loved storing my digital collection and or streaming them on my PS3. Love not having to use wired connection for internet. Loved having free online play. Loved having BC back then early on when there were still many PS2 games I wanted to play.

Personally factoring in everything the PS3 sofar is still the better console than the PS4 for me. In the same time span I would have bought Heavenly Sword and Uncharted 1 by now.

Yes it was horrible for Sony but oh boy was it great for me.

@attilayavuzer. Yes but late adopters like you missed out on the getting games fresh and enjoying them when their value was at their highest against previous gen games.

Nothing beats playing a 64 match Resistance or Warhawk on the PS3 in its early days.

[_-EDMIX-_]

@Aloren- "It was still a horrible decision from a video game business perspective"

Nope. It was a good call. It was a risky, but worthy investment in the companies and gaming's future.

Its like saying putting CD in PS1 was a bad idea because of the cost, soooooo to save cost lets just not have CD in PS1 and not have FFVII and many of the games that were ONLY possible with more space?

"Now I'm glad they did push the bluray and we got great games, but it sure didn't help their market share"

Yet that is why PS4 is exactly doing well right now, its due to that price and that price is only because PS3 helped get the price down for Bluray to begin with.

XONE and PS4's great prices are due to PS3's very high price, again, it was an investment and its very much paying off, for both consoles actually.

"They struggled to impose a new format that the competition didn't support" Its because they couldn't, many developers spoke against MS's dated format with DVD, from Kojima, to Dan and Sam Houser, even stating they wouldn't make another GTA on MS platform UNLESS they fixed their space situation (which MS actually did allowing GTAV to be installed and with 2 disk)

Also John Carmack spoke against it too.

Your going from a gen that used DVD9 many times, to a gen that is using DVD9 AGAIN yet expecting a huge leap, its just not going to happen and developer's very much knew that.

Bluray last gen was 100% the right call. Your not just seeing more open world games accidentally, this because many of them have been WAITING for this for years now.

" if they PS3 had come out when it did but with a dvd player and a $400 price point, it would have absolutely crushed the 360"

No doubt, but would they have "crushed" Nintendo with out CD during PS1 vs N64? FFVII exist because of that 1 move...

PS4 would have had that high cost due to Bluray selling LESS due to PS3 not having it. ie 80 million drives where sold JUST from PS3 alone that drove down that price for PS4 and XONE. Sony needed to start somewhere and they invested early and it was the right call, for ALL of gaming.

XONE has bluray, PS4 has blury. All gamers get to get large, huge open world games at no extra cost that the early PS3 gamers had to pay. The fact of the matter is, someone had to pay that cost for progress and to lower the price for the next gen.

PS3 still outsold 360, lowered its price, got bluray down in cost and got PS4 outselling both consoles. I would say it was the right call for gamers, business even for XONE gamers.

Next time a system comes out with a new radical format at a high cost, questions what "FFVII via PS1" can we likely see that we would not have seen otherwise.

You want the $300 dated, or the $600 future? TRUE next gen progress comes at a high cost.

[b1nary_B0SS]

@ Rashid Sayed:

PS3's initial price was a reflection of its core technologies; namely, CELL, RSX, and Blu-ray in addition to its built-in Wi-Fi, Bluetooth connectivity, HDMI etc. What you, and the large majority of others that constantly harp on PS3’s price at launch fail to gather when strolling down memory lane, is that PS3’s cost of production was ~$1060.00. The asking price of $499.99 or $599.99 for a console with the world’s first C/GPU and APU, Blu-ray drive and all of the other features fore mentioned was fair; and the quality of its games at launch and after improved significantly, as developers began to use PlayStation Edge and PhyreEngine to become more familiar with CELL’s SPUs. Is it your opinion that Ken Kutaragi should not have engineered the PS3 in the manner he did? If so, then the PS4’s GPU customizations would not have been the beneficiary of CELL’s SPU Runtime System (SPURS), thus it would not be any different to that of a PC’s GPU, nor would it have a Blu-ray drive. Is it your opinion that SCE should have sold PS3 for less? If so, then doing so would have pushed SCE beyond the brink and into bankruptcy, because a general rule of thumb in the retail business is to never sell a product at a loss greater than 50% of what it costs the business to produce said product; as the losses incurred over time will prohibit the business from breaking even or generating a profit. Kutaragi’s PS3 was what it was, so that PS4 could be what it is.

4/15/2013 - Dominic Mallinson: https://www.youtube.com/wat...
@~8:36 - … CELL was the precursor to today’s APUs, very much a heterogeneous architecture.

3/30/2013 - Part 1 - Mark Cerny: http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
And of course, the existence of an APU gives us the ability to come close to the results obtained from the SPU.

5/30/2005 - Ken Kutaragi - http://www.eetimes.com/docu...
From the beginning, I wanted multiple operating systems to run on the processor simultaneously. The Cell processor has a kernel called … Level 2, which we call the guest OS layer, … for the Playstation.
We are real-time game developers, so all necessary schemes… in a multithread environment — have been taken into consideration.

9/27/2005 - Page 13 - Mark Cerny, Atilla Vass, … - http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.ai...
[0010]… Operating systems that support multithreading enable programmers to design programs whose threaded parts can execute concurrently. SPU Threads operates by regarding the SPUs in a cell as processors for threads.
[0011] Unfortunately, interoperating with SPU Threads is not an option for high-performance applications.
[0012] To overcome these problems a system referred to as SPU Runtime System (SPURS) was developed.

6/28/2013 - Mark Cerny: https://www.youtube.com/wat...
@~21:47 - CELL was Ken Kutaragi’s brainchild…
@~37:19 - We did think from time to time about what Ken would do if he were designing the PlayStation 4.

Go to #1.1.24

[DarkSniper]

As time has revealed, Peter Moore spent too much time partying, and not enough time conducting business. In 2006, Dark Sniper was in line with his $599 US dollars in hand to buy the illustrious PlayStation®3 Home Entertainment Terminal. Enjoying what the Cell Processor had to offer since day 1.

When the PS3 was released, there were worldwide shortages that made news articles for the past several months. From the beginning, Sony has preached about taking a long term approach to the PS3 and implementing the 10 year product life cycle plan. With only one year left until the PlayStation®3's 10th year anniversary, Dark Sniper would like to say job well done.

PlayStation®3 completed the first three-peat of console generation victories. With the ass whooping that Sony is giving Microsoft and Nintendo this generation, it looks as if Sony will continue to break their own records once again.

Sony PlayStation, more powerful than God.

$niper

[morganfell]

No moldy, just no.

Oh the Xbox released years and years ahead of the PS3 when people were still writing in the dirt with a stick. "Hey Bobby, you can go back to school now because we've deiscovered paper!"

Just stop.

Sony forced to redesin the PS3? Ahahahahaha. Is that why they redesigned the PS1? Is that why they redesigned the PS2? Ahahahaha you never think before you post.

Everyone saw HDMI coming and MS made public statements about how it wasn't necessary...which they then recanted.

Sony forced MS to redesign the Xbox 360. HDMI, Wifi.

And the ulitmate move -Bluray in the X1

Flawless victory.

Do you realize from the day the PS3 launched it began to gain ground on the 360? Unlike the current situation with the PS4 and the X1 where the gap keeps growing, it began to close from day 1. Look at the yearly figures. It closed every year. Not always by much but it closed.

Moral of the story? Facts matter. Stop making up crap that has more holes than a truckload of swiss cheese. The next thing we know you will come up with some analogy about buying a car that will leave you in flames.

[Ratty]

I bought it in its second year before the price was cut (like two weeks before) and I never once regretted it. Not even 4 years later when it died.

So yes. 599$ well spent.

I'll agree with you that, looking back, they made a lot of bad calls at Sony but that's only because they didn't have their ways.

Edit: Meanwhile, my 360 didn't last one year even though I barely used it at all.

[b1nary_B0SS]

Continued...

11/14/2013 - Shuhei Yoshida: http://www.gamesindustry.bi...
There are a lot of hidden powers in our system. You may be familiar with GPGPU and PS4 has a lot more GPGPU processing in it, which is difficult to learn and master, similar to a Cell processor.

3/30/2013 - Part 2 - Mark Cerny: http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
The GPGPU for us is a feature that is of utmost importance… We’re trying to replicate the SPU Runtime System (SPURS) of the PS3 by heavily customizing the cache and bus.

4/24/2013 - Mark Cerny: http://www.gamasutra.com/vi...
Next, to support the case where you want to use the GPU L2 cache simultaneously for both graphics processing and asynchronous compute, we have added a bit in the tags of the cache lines, we call it the 'volatile' bit… For PS4, we’ve worked with AMD to increase the limit to 64 sources of compute commands -- the idea is if you have some asynchronous compute you want to perform… alongside the graphics that's in the system… This concept grew out of the software Sony created, called SPURS, to help programmers juggle tasks on the CELL's SPUs -- but on the PS4, it's being accomplished in hardware.

4/27/2007 – EETimes: http://www.eetimes.com/docu...
Kutaragi said he previously turned over to Sony’s PS3 design team his vision for reducing costs along with design models extending about two years into the future.

7/31/2009 – Nobuyuki Oneda: http://www.gamesindustry.bi...
The cost reduction since we introduced the PS3 is very substantial and this is on schedule… We don’t disclose how much of the PS3, specifically the cost deduction was achieved during the past two years. But that is on schedule… About 70%, roughly speaking.

[b1nary_B0SS]

comment deleted

[b1nary_B0SS]

Continued...

2/5/2010 - http://www.cnet.com/news/so...
According to The Wall Street Journal, which examined Sony's fiscal third-quarter financial performance, the company loses 6 cents on "every dollar of PS3 hardware sales." Considering the PlayStation 3 current retails for $300, we can safely assume then, that the company loses about $18 per unit.

$1060.00 X .70 = $742.00
$1060.00 – $742.00 = $318.00
$318.00 – $299.99 = $18.01
Launch PS3 cost of production: $1060.00 USD
Revised PS3 cost of production: $318.00 USD
120 GB model CECH-2101A retail price: $299.99 USD
Loss: ~$18.01

2/5/2010 - wsj: http://www.wsj.com/articles...
Mr. Oneda said Sony expects to lower production costs of its PlayStation 3 videogame console by 15% in the fiscal year ending March 2011, resulting in a benefit of “tens of billions” of yen.

6/28/2010 - Shuhei Yoshida: http://www.ign.com/articles...
This year is the first time that we are able to cover the cost of the PlayStation 3… We aren’t making huge money from hardware, but we aren’t bleeding like we used to.

$318.00 X .15 = $47.70
$318.00 – $47.70 = $270.30
$299.99 – $270.30 = $29.69
Revised PS3 cost of production: $270.30 USD
160 GB model CECH-30xxA retail price: $299.99 USD
Profit: ~ $29.69

[_-EDMIX-_]

@B1nary- bubbles for you intelligence.

"Kutaragi’s PS3 was what it was, so that PS4 could be what it is"

Agreed and agreed.

[Aloren]

@_-EDMIX-_ "Nope. It was a good call. It was a risky, but worthy investment in the companies and gaming's future.
Its like saying putting CD in PS1 was a bad idea because of the cost, soooooo to save cost lets just not have CD in PS1 and not have FFVII and many of the games that were ONLY possible with more space? "

That's completely different. First of all, PS1 didn't come out at 500 and 600 bucks, it also wasn't the only console bringing CDs to the table.The 3DO, the Amiga Cd32, The saturn, and PCs had CD drives. The tech was already "old".

Same goes with the DVD on the PS2. it was nice, but it was also on xbox, and it was also not 500 bucks.

"Yet that is why PS4 is exactly doing well right now, its due to that price and that price is only because PS3 helped get the price down for Bluray to begin with. "

No it's not. The PS4 is doing great because of excellent communication from sony, not because they but a BD in the PS3... Bluray has been cheap for years now. PS3 helped to get the price down in the 1st 2 years, but it would have come down eventually long before the PS4 came out, just like every other tech. You really think they'd need 8 years to make it "affordable" if they managed to sell them for 500 back then ?

"Its because they couldn't, many developers spoke against MS's dated format with DVD, from Kojima, to Dan and Sam Houser, even stating they wouldn't make another GTA on MS platform UNLESS they fixed their space situation (which MS actually did allowing GTAV to be installed and with 2 disk)"

That's precisely my point. Maybe they spoke about it, or cried about it, but that's irrelevent. At the end of the day, xbox had a 50% market share because of the headstart and cheaper price (core 360 came out at 299 a year before PS3s) and consequently 90% of the games were multiplat and didn't take advantage of the BD.

In the end, it cost sony a shitload of money for almost no reason except maybe help kickstar the BD format a bit earlier. But that's great for their TV business, not their video game business.
Once again, if they had used a DVD drive, the console would have been much cheaper, they'd make money on every single console sold, and their market share would have been much higher.

So yeah, we got games like MGS4 and some other great exclusives thanks to Bluray, and that's awesome from a gamer point of view, and I'm glad I got my first BD drive on a PS3 and the great games that came with it, but it still wasn't a good call for thei VG business imo. Maybe there wouldn't even be a XboxOne today if PS3 had used a DVD...

[Dasteru]

Yeah, horrible decision to price it $200 below manufacturing cost. They could have released a cheaper system but it would have been half as powerful and wouldn't have had a blu-ray drive.

The cheapest standalone blu-ray player at the time was $1200 and it wasn't as good as the one in the PS3.

@Aloren:

Cutting out the Blu-ray drive wouldn't have reduced the cost to $400. They would have needed to cut the Cell CPU also.

[Bobby Kotex]

It's so ridiculous how you're downvoted by speaking the truth. The PS fanboyism here amazes me.

[freshslicepizza]

morganfell,
"Oh the Xbox released years and years ahead of the PS3 when people were still writing in the dirt with a stick."

sony is an electronics company more than a game company. hdmi did not really become commercially viable until 2006 when the ps3 came out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

"According to In-Stat, the number of HDMI devices sold was 5 million in 2004, 17.4 million in 2005, 63 million in 2006, and 143 million in 2007."

why did you conveniently ignore how the ps2 was behind the xbox in terms of advancements? why did you conveniently leave out how the ps3 was $200 more in price?

"Sony forced to redesin the PS3? Ahahahahaha. Is that why they redesigned the PS1? "

the ps1 took out super audio cd support? the ps1 took out backwards compatibility to cut cost? interesting how you refute things without actually refuting anything.

"Everyone saw HDMI coming and MS made public statements about how it wasn't necessary...which they then recanted."

it's called cutting costs down at the time of release. that's why they never built in hd dvd support either. the same theory explains why sony never thought broadband support was important on the ps2 right? or a 4 way controller port add-on right? or a hard drive right?

"Sony forced MS to redesign the Xbox 360. HDMI, Wifi."

yes they did, no argument there. they were able to redesign the system while still supporting 720p playback with component support on older units too. sony also had a ps3 that did not have wi-fi. did you not know the original ps3 20gb model didn't have wi-fi? i'm sorry, i guess you're not used to arguing with people who actually know what they are talking about.

"And the ulitmate move -Bluray in the X1
Flawless victory."

it became the standard format, and? their number one goal was to make sure bluray became the next format and they used the playstation brand to help push bluray into homes even if it meant gamers were going to be put off by the huge price tag. they even sold units below costs which in the end erased previous profits from the ps2 era. quite a large price to pay but in the end it paid off but sony is no longer the same company they once were financially. sony also failed to convert people to betamax and umd, so? once again you fail to put things into context, costs at the time the ps3 came out and how bluray added a lot to those costs. of course microsoft did not want to wager on hd dvd and bluray. how much do you think the xbox 360 would have cost in 2005 a year before the ps3 with a built in bluray? nintendo didn't use it either.

"Do you realize from the day the PS3 launched it began to gain ground on the 360? Unlike the current situation with the PS4 and the X1 where the gap keeps growing, it began to close from day 1. Look at the yearly figures. It closed every year. Not always by much but it closed."

not every year and not in the first year either, get your facts please. it wasn't until sony introduced the 40gb model without backwards compatibility for $400 that got them going. you see, they had to redesign the hardware in order to achieve a cheaper unit to compete with the xbox 360.

[Nitrowolf2]

sorry, but who made you in charge of dictating whether something was worth the price to someone else or not?

I know I feel the same as Rimeskeen. Cheapest Bluray on the market at the time, great games, PS2 backwards capatibility. And this consoles lasted me till the very end of this gen, I say it paid for itself

[morganfell]

Your comments are rife with errors saltybread.

First you think revisions that may remove features to produce a less expensive console is somehow a sign of deseration on the part of the manufacurer. Wrong. One does not indicate the other. There are instances where this may be tru but it is not a hard and fast rule.

And you completely changed the subject since you could not back up a reason for design changes when the hardware manufacturer is the sales leader. The PS2 was the lord of the realm and Sony still revised it. How is that desperation on Sony's part? See, you fail again.

As regards HDMI, this is what MS misunderstood. And you do to this day. Sony was able to read the tea leaves and MS was not.

Looking at current figures when making design choices for a future proof electronic device is not only suicidal but it is idiocy. It is also a disservice to your customers. S

Sony future proofed their console and MS did not but here you are trying to defend a company that unnecessarily forced customers that wanted HDMI to have to rebuy. Sounds more like a hardware manufacturer out for themselves. The same with that proprietary HDD.

Cost cutting at the time of release for MS by leaving out an industry standard device needed for the future, but not cost cutting for the customer that didn't get a future built console.

Shame.

As I said, I paid $599. That was it. People that wanted HDMI on their console didn't. People that wanted multiplayer for the life of their console didn't.

Flawless victory.

Bluray became the standard format. Yes it did it most certainly did. Thanks for reinforcing one of my points about Sony making better long range choices.

Flawless victory.

You have managed to show your initial arguments erred and mostly without my assistance.

Flawless victory.

[Knushwood Butt]

Someone mentioned Warhawk.

I noticed someone on my friends list playing that last night.

Are the servers still up?

[freshslicepizza]

@morganfell,

"First you think revisions that may remove features to produce a less expensive console is somehow a sign of deseration on the part of the manufacurer."

no i didn't. i simply provided you with the information needed to show how sony was able to make the ps3 more successful, you argued sony was not forced to redesign the hardware. stop moving ther goal posts.

"One does not indicate the other. There are instances where this may be tru but it is not a hard and fast rule."

in this case it is, no need to get upset just because you were not correct in your summary.

"And you completely changed the subject since you could not back up a reason for design changes when the hardware manufacturer is the sales leader. The PS2 was the lord of the realm and Sony still revised it. How is that desperation on Sony's part? See, you fail again."

once again you think by putting words in my mouth somehow corrects your errors. i never said the ps2 was a mistake, far from it. i put things into context, something you don't seem to want to do. the ps2 was missing features from the later released xbox and you somehow want to suggest the xbox 360 should have added features that the ps3 had when it too launched later only this time was much more expensive in relation to the two comparisons. your summary was incorrect, next.

"As regards HDMI, this is what MS misunderstood. And you do to this day. Sony was able to read the tea leaves and MS was not."

and microsoft was able to see the advancements in broadband, sony was not with the ps2. same with hard drives. so why do you insist on painting one as worse than the other aside from your displeasure of microsoft. this is why you fail time and again at rebuttals because you are way too biased to have reasonable debates with. you are more interested in painting the xbox as bad than getting your facts straight.

"Looking at current figures when making design choices for a future proof electronic device is not only suicidal but it is idiocy. It is also a disservice to your customers."

what does that have to do with what we are discussing? moving the goal posts again?

con't below

[freshslicepizza]

con't,

@morganfell"Sony future proofed their console and MS did not but here you are trying to defend a company that unnecessarily forced customers that wanted HDMI to have to rebuy. Sounds more like a hardware manufacturer out for themselves. The same with that proprietary HDD."

and once again you fail to give the same summary to that of the ps2 compared to the xbox because it was so popular. try not to move the argument around just to suit you, ok?

"Cost cutting at the time of release for MS by leaving out an industry standard device needed for the future, but not cost cutting for the customer that didn't get a future built console."

hdmi was not industry standard in 2005. is any of this ever going to get through to you?

"As I said, I paid $599. That was it. People that wanted HDMI on their console didn't. People that wanted multiplayer for the life of their console didn't."

you did not need hdmi to get 720p playback. the xbox 360 also did not have bluray so what was the dire need for hdmi back in 2005?

"Flawless victory."

sony stocks prior to 2006 to that of today do not support your claims. bluray getting into homes was indeed a victory but what you ignored was the cost to get there.

once again i will add how competition is good for the industry. it forced sony to create the ps4 in such a way that it is, easy to work with, scaled to be profitable early on and affordable. it also forced sony to redesign the ps3 and get the price down very quickly. competition also forced microsoft to rethink the launch of the xbox one, remove kinect from being standard and lowering the costs.

i'm sorry but your views are way too one-sided to be taken seriously.

[dkp23]

It wasn't worth it because they cut the prize 6 month later.

[Raf1k1]

Blu-ray wouldn't have become the standard high def format if not for the PS3.

The console was half the price of standalone blu-ray players upon it's release and even cost less than Sony paid to produce it.

It paid off for them pretty well. Not a horrible decision in any way for either Sony or those that coughed up the money for it.

[rainslacker]

$599 was fine for me. Spent it on launch day, and last played it just yesterday and expect quite a bit more time out of it. It amounts to about $60 a year so far, so it works out since I didn't have to pay a yearly sub for online.

[morganfell]

No one is putting words in your mouth. You said MS forced Sony to redesign the PS3. I gave you two cases where Sony redesigned previous consoles and it had nothing to do with being under pressure.

You then admit it was MS that had to redesign their console - and not just because of RROD either - but because of Sony. You can't have it both ways and you fail miserably in this act where you insist on following me around N4G.

You do think a console is redesigned because of pressure. What else would you call it? (If you backpeddle any faster you are going to fall worse than you already have.)

You said the PS3 redesign was because the 360 was doing so well. What would you call that if not pressure. And in that remark you ignore the PS3 was doing better, outselling the 360 worldwide. You are one of those people that thinks there is only one country.

I keep laying out examples of Sony's history of redesigned models and you keep wanting to ignore it.

BTW, Sony had a broadband adapter for the PS2. You should also be aware that SOCOM 2, which required the BB adapter, had more people online than all the people on Xbox Live combined. Even with the BB adapter the PS2 + BB Adapter was cheaper than the Xbox and 5 years of Live. Hurts I know, but facts are stubborn things. I would say Sony did it right. They also completely buried the Xbox in sales.

You put things into context? No you try to remove them from the factual situation so you can see them in the light you want. Future proofing has everthing to do with being the cheaper console. It means you do not have to rebuy as soon. And the PS3 as a future proofed device was cheaper. Did you even look at the headline of the article or did you just follow me here again and start typing?

HDMI became a standard in 2003. Tough pal. Sony was right and MS was late. Next.

Stocks have nothing to do with this. Stick to the discussion. The Xbox 360 and 7 years of Live - Multiplayer, the big 360 draw, HALO and all, was more expensive than a launch PS3. There are plenty of other cost additives to the 360 and nothing you say can refute those facts. Squirm jump, and scream, but only short sighted people with zero long range views think otherwise. I am not debating if you enjoyed the 360. I am staying on subject and stating the undeniable truth that if you wanted a full experience for the life of the console it was far more expensive than a PS3.

@Raf1k1,

The PS3 was also one of the best Bluray players on the market for quite some time. It was used by a lot of companies and sites to test movies and other player's quality.

[ChrisW]

If the console were under any other name, it would have failed. Sony banked on that and it obviously paid off.

[freshslicepizza]

@morganfell,
"No one is putting words in your mouth. You said MS forced Sony to redesign the PS3. I gave you two cases where Sony redesigned previous consoles and it had nothing to do with being under pressure."

the price of the ps3 dropped faster than the xbox and gamecube, that is called being under pressure to remain competitive. in order to do so they had to remove key features like backwards compatibility and cut other things like super audio cd support. your examples of previous redesigns are more to do with making the system more efficient with slim models, not remove features to have a competitive price. do you not know the difference? the ps3 was not selling as well like the ps1 and ps2 did and the high price point is a reflection of that. it wasn't until sony got the system down to $399 is when sales started to compete against the xbox 360. in order to get that price point they had to remove backwards compatibility and other features. why is it so hard to grasp that?

"You then admit it was MS that had to redesign their console - and not just because of RROD either - but because of Sony. You can't have it both ways"

of course you can have it both ways, it's called trying to remain competitive.

"and you fail miserably in this act where you insist on following me around N4G."

i posted in this topic before you, not sure what your point is other than to try and deflect and go off-topic.

"You said the PS3 redesign was because the 360 was doing so well. What would you call that if not pressure. And in that remark you ignore the PS3 was doing better, outselling the 360 worldwide. You are one of those people that thinks there is only one country."

the redesigned model that got the system under $400 is when it started doing better. one day you will understand but for now you're too absorbed in trying to make the ps3 seem infallible even when sony themselves admitted the ps3 had design mistakes and cost overload.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/new...

"I keep laying out examples of Sony's history of redesigned models and you keep wanting to ignore it."

and you keep ignoring how it's not the same thing. the ps3 had to remove key features and the price had to come down quickly to gain back marketshare.

"BTW, Sony had a broadband adapter for the PS2. You should also be aware that SOCOM 2, which required the BB adapter, had more people online than all the people on Xbox Live combined. Even with the BB adapter the PS2 + BB Adapter was cheaper than the Xbox and 5 years of Live. Hurts I know, but facts are stubborn things. I would say Sony did it right. They also completely buried the Xbox in sales."

you still insist on excusing the ps2 for its lack of features that ended up costing the consumer more than it would by buying an xbox and then want to instead only focus on the xbox 360 missing features that the ps3 had. then you try and validate it because it sold better. keep moving those goal posts. didn't you just say you can't have it both ways?

[freshslicepizza]

con't,

"You put things into context? No you try to remove them from the factual situation so you can see them in the light you want. Future proofing has everthing to do with being the cheaper console. It means you do not have to rebuy as soon. And the PS3 as a future proofed device was cheaper."

cheaper for who? i never had to buy a wi-fi adapter because mine was hard wired. why did everyone have to upgrade to have hdmi? you have no answer for that either. the only added costs are for xbox live and that is a whole other debate.

"Did you even look at the headline of the article or did you just follow me here again and start typing?"

you're right, i followed you here by posting before you got here because i knew you would post. makes a lot of sense. quit going off-topic because you having nothing further to add.

"HDMI became a standard in 2003. Tough pal. Sony was right and MS was late. Next."

prove it. hdmi was not standard on televisions in 2003. you provide nothing once again to back up your claims.

"Stocks have nothing to do with this. Stick to the discussion."

then why mention ps2 sales to justify added costs to the consumer for features found on the xbox? moving those goal posts i see.

"The Xbox 360 and 7 years of Live - Multiplayer, the big 360 draw, HALO and all, was more expensive than a launch PS3."

yes, xbox live does have fees. nowhere did i deny that. the thing is not everyone used it just like how not everyone needed wi-fi and not everyone needed hdmi. ironically not everyone needed the ps3 to play ps2 games either. so instead of adding these features like microsoft did on the xbox 360, sony decided to take them away and not offer them once the stock dried up.

"The PS3 was also one of the best Bluray players on the market for quite some time. It was used by a lot of companies and sites to test movies and other player's quality."

but not everyone wanted a bluray player for movies, they just wanted a game console. sony could not remove bluray to drive prices down so instead they removed other things. i feel like i'm repeating myself because you still don't get it.

[WelkinCole]

@moldybread

The PS3 was outselling the X360 from the get go. It is why in the end Sony sold more PS3.

Sony strategy with the PS has been the same from the start. They actually don't really look at competition and instead set their own plan and march to their own drum. It worked for them in the PS1 and PS2. They tried it again with the PS3 but it didn't come off as well as they hoped hence the tweak in their approach this gen.

Sony always have their own plan and they execute them regardless of competition.

The reason why MS didn't have HDIM and standard hard drive and other features in the x360 was because they wanted to be first to market and be cheaper. They learned from the previous gen that being late is suicide and advance features like standard HD really didn't matter. Their strategy paid off somewhat last gen.

[andibandit]

@BinaryBoss

"What you, and the large majority of others that constantly harp on PS3’s price at launch fail to gather when strolling down memory lane, is that PS3’s cost of production was ~$1060.00. The asking price of $499.99 or $599.99 for a console with the world’s first C/GPU and APU, Blu-ray drive and all of the other features fore mentioned was fair;"

Noone's failing to gather that...but theres an upper limit of what people are willing to spend on what is primarily a console.
If NASA were to sell off rockets at 1/10 the price, I still doubt people would rush out and pay millions of $, even tho it's a good deal....

[UKmilitia]

the thing is sony was pushing new tech,MS wasnt.
if it was down to MS we would still be using cds over 12 discs

[RumbleFish]

"Sony literally struggled with the PlayStation 3 for the first few years with some terrible PR decisions and lack of quality games."

This is simply not true.

[Benchm4rk]

@DarkSniper

"PlayStation®3 completed the first three-peat of console generation victories"

Hate to break it to you but Nintendo won last gen.

[Last_Boss]

If people are taking about how expensive the PS3 was, just point them towards the NEO-GEO's way. It was in a war with 3 other systems as well.

FIN

[Khajiit86]

PS3 had BluRay.. Please check the prices at the time PS3 was released for Blu Ray players....... PS3 was a steal.

[freshslicepizza]

@WelkinCole
"The PS3 was outselling the X360 from the get go. It is why in the end Sony sold more PS3."

in 2008 the xbox 360 outsold the ps3 by a small margin but you are correct aside from that year and 2006 as well which the ps3 was only available for a few months.

"Sony strategy with the PS has been the same from the start. They actually don't really look at competition and instead set their own plan and march to their own drum. It worked for them in the PS1 and PS2. They tried it again with the PS3 but it didn't come off as well as they hoped hence the tweak in their approach this gen. Sony always have their own plan and they execute them regardless of competition."

that is not true in the case of the ps4. sony dropped the whole proprietary thing and finally got onboard to make hardware everyone can easily create games on in a language they understand. xbox live also pushed sony to vastly improve it's own network and the ps4 now charges fees like xbox live does.

"The reason why MS didn't have HDIM and standard hard drive and other features in the x360 was because they wanted to be first to market and be cheaper. They learned from the previous gen that being late is suicide and advance features like standard HD really didn't matter. Their strategy paid off somewhat last gen."

correct aside from your hd comment. microsoft decided to offer two variants in hardware as did sony with the ps3. the xbox 360 could output 720p gaming which is classified as hd. most games on both the ps3 and xbox 360 were in this resolution. microsoft was able to offer systems with built in hdmi and vga support that could output at 1080p and also adapters for older units but very few games were in 1080p. hence why it wasn't really a necessity. even this generation not all games are in 1080p on the ps4 and xbox one and wii u. the wii came out the same year as the ps3 and it never did offer hdmi output.

[morganfell]

Burn those last two bubbles in a wall of text I didn't read. Here is it is in a nutshell.

PS3 full experience $599

360 full experience $399 + 7 years of Xbox Live.

The truth is simple. If you really wanted to game the 360 cost far more.

You can toss in trade ins for HDMI, Wifi, proprietary play and charge cable, HDD if you like. Go ahead and deny it.

Shortsighted people buying on price alone were had. You can call them victims of marketing if it makes you feel better. They wanted it cheap now but in the long run they paid far more. You can say some people didn't want the Bluray player. That is a moot point. This article is about the PS3 price and MS laughing. They should have been laughing at people that can't add. And you insist on defending them.

I spent $599 one time and had the full experience. As a 360 supporter you cannot say that. Tough, but those are facts.

[zeee]

I hate this website. Way too many ads and not even mobile friendly. I mean come on. Responsive sites are a must now.

[freshslicepizza]

@morganfell,
"The truth is simple. If you really wanted to game the 360 cost far more."

yes if you include xbox live but the reality is less than 50% of xbox 360 owners had xbox live gold. you tailored the argument to suit yourself.

"You can toss in trade ins for HDMI, Wifi, proprietary play and charge cable, HDD if you like. Go ahead and deny it."

all those things cost money, no denying that. the trouble is once again you are tailoring the conversation to suit your own needs since not everyone bought those accessories or needed them.

"Shortsighted people buying on price alone were had. You can call them victims of marketing if it makes you feel better. They wanted it cheap now but in the long run they paid far more. You can say some people didn't want the Bluray player. That is a moot point."

how is it a moot point when sony lost major marketshare because of it? they dominted the ps1 and ps2 ers, the ps3 stumbled but you want to defend them and then accuse me of defending microsoft just because i put things into context and how your summary does not reflect all xbox 360 owners and their needs and expenses. you constantly want to pad things because you've made it personal out of spite for your distaste for microsoft. your views are lopsided and you know it.

"This article is about the PS3 price and MS laughing. They should have been laughing at people that can't add. And you insist on defending them."

yes they were laughing. they managed to put a dent in sony's armor and made the xbox 360 the preferred platform for developers and forced sony's hand to quickly lower the price of the ps3 while sony bled money for many years. if you call defending the xbox 360 by putting things into context and how the extras were not a necessity for all xbox 360 owners then so be it. that's your views and yours do not speak on behalf of everyone.

"I spent $599 one time and had the full experience. As a 360 supporter you cannot say that. Tough, but those are facts."

why not when i enjoyed both my ps3 and xbox 360? you seem bent out of shape over the popularity of the xbox 360 and the troubles sony faced with the ps3. not once did i say the xbox 360 was a better system. the difference is i am not on a smear campaign like you, who then accuses others of defending something when that is exactly what you've been doing all along.

[morganfell]

Once again it is up to me to keep the discussion on track. I let you pull me off once. It will never happen again. The article is about Peter Moore and the execs at Xbox laughing. The title shopuld have read:

Peter Moore Recalls Sony Announcing PS3 Price Point of $599: We Were All Yucking It Up Backstage Because We Knew We would Be Getting More From 360 Owners Than $599 And They WOuld Not Realize It Until It WQas Too Late

The full experience on the 360 cost more. Those that didn't have Live were in the far far minority vocally. All we heard from 360 owners was about Xbox Live. Thats what mattered. HALO Multiplayer, Gears Multiplayer, 360 COD MP timed exclusivity.

The reality is to get the vision that vocal 360 owners claimed was what mattered you had to pay a great deal more than that $599. If someone can't acknowledge that then they were played. It is that simple.

You can kick, you can scream, you can squirm like you are now but you can't change the facts one iota. Not one. Put out a console and say it's the very best and then announce there is no Multiplayer available. You couldn't do it this gen and you couldn't so it last gen but that is what you aree saying mattered more - a 360 with no MP. You are wrong. Just wrong.

MS managed to put a dent in Sony's armor and look what happened. First of all dent or not they dumped billions into a game they haven't made a profit on yet and they still lost. Second, they abandoned gamers for the casual crowd last generation. Third they tried in one day to rob gamers of more rights than any company in history. They even said they were building an entertainment machine not a gaming machine. They deserted gamers again. They still lost and have lost every generation. Now its over because Xbox is over as we know it will disappear. It will be a service with licensed PCs like Steam Machines.

Go ahead and be proud of that dent. It's like poking the bear and then laughing right before the bear wakes up. Now the bear is having his way as the gap between the two new systems gets wider every single hour of every single day.

I am not sure who was being fooled the most. The Xbox execs laughing or the people that thought the full console experience on the 360 was cheaper. It's a race to see who was getting fooled the most. Of course your comments show you might be in the lead.

[WelkinCole]

@moldybread. Yes they abandon that when let go of ken.

What I am referring to is their strategy for the console generation.

They plan things from the start to then end and they keep to their plan regardless of competition.

They always plan for a 10 year cycle which within they plan specific targets and milestones they want to reach regardless of comp.

It is how they managed to get 100 million back to back with the PS1 and PS2 and eventually the PS3 will be close to in the end.

The only reason why they have not been able to reach 100 million sofar with the PS3 is because they didn't anticipate how much the Wii would disrupt the market. Again, they didn't focused on competition.

Same way they planned to launched the PS3 and PS4 when they are ready even though MS launched the X360 first as well Nin with the Wii U. They don't react to competition. They have their own plan for the console generation and they stick to it.

[joab777]

And actually, when all said and done, I spent way more on my 360, even though I bought it 2 yrs later. Had to buy 3 of them, pay for Gold, pay for a bigger hard drive, pay for a transfer cable, pay for wireless, and still had no blue ray.

The initial price point for the 360 was very deceiving.

[Loktai]

Def true.... 499/599, free online, easier hard drive upgrade options, bluray player, Wifi, HDMI and bluetooth.

Does nobody remember the initial XBOX 360 wired controllers, lack of Wifi, lack of blutooth, shitty HD-DVD addon they ripped people off with later and so on? 499/599 was a great pricepoint considering what you got... now XBone aficionados are touting backward compatibility of a couple dozen games as some kin dof game changer... PS3 Had backward compatibiltiy with the ps1 and ps2 full library and at that time it was brushed off.

[Aloren]

@Loktai The same can be said today when you compare an 800 bucks pc to a 400 bucks console.
People just like to buy what's cheaper most of the time, and not what's gonna be cheaper after 2 years.

[ChrisW]

Aloren,

By the mere mention of "PC," your logic instantly means nothing to console fans... Regardless of how favorable your comment actually is towards PS3.

[iceman06]

I know I'm late to the party, but I can recall a simple graphic comparison that a Sony rep. at GameStop was mounting to the checkout desk where it simply outlined the benefits of the $600 console. By the time you matched the functionality of the PS3 with the 360, you were upwards of $800. (I think that included external HD movie drive on Xbox 360) Either way, it was a compelling argument for spending the money. In the end, MS offered their gaming experience A la carte. Whereas, Sony just included everything into the package.
The only thing that kept Sony from out and out domination from day one wasn't price as much as MS beating them to launch and people not wanting to jump ship after being entrenched in the Xbox Live ecosystem for the better part of a year.

[Bathyj]

It was AU$1000 in Australia but I never regretted it. Had my Phat PS3 all the way up until The Last of Us came out which proved to be too much for the olds girl.

In the end it wasn't the price the X360 owed it's success to as PS3 outsold it every year it was on the market, it always sold at a quicker pace. Xbox enjoyed the market lead and got to dictated terms to publishers because they rushed an untested product out just to be first. It was probably the most faulty piece of electronics in history and if it had been in an industry like automotive or almost and other field it would have been a total recall.

It still didn't really make much money for MS but they got their foot in the door of the industry in a big way and insured MS would have a 3rd console.

Incidentally, $1000 is the same price I saw my very first DVD player for, and that was years earlier. New technology cost money. And I remember all the FUD being spread that bluray wasn't needed. I wonder what those people would say about that now given that it's the undisputed standard and a lot of this that is because of the wide adoption of the PS3. Had they not, would DVD still be the standard? Yuck. That's like rubbing Vaseline in your eyes.

[sprinterboy]

@rime

Well said, I bought my first home 1 week before ps3 release and bought a LG 32" Hdtv, got it home to realise I had no way to watch hd content as skytv was 1 yr away from broadcasting hd content plus no streaming sites then.

I bought a ps3 1 week later (£425) and watched in amazement casino royal (bluray) plus had a blast with rfom, motorstorm and drunken party's with friends with the duck game lol. One of my best purchases ever

[Knushwood Butt]

My kids still play the duck game.

[OCEANGROWNKUSH]

Microsoft just nickel and dimed their customers instead. The base 360 came with nothing and required proprietary peripherals to even match up with what Sony already had in the box.

Wanted a wireless controller? $50. Want to charge that controller? $20. Wanted wifi? Adapter was $99. Wanted a hard drive? another $99. Want hi definition disc playback? that'll be $150. HDMI converter? $90. True HDMI? Buy another console.

What started out as a $299 console quickly becomes an $800 console if you wanted all the features of the PS3... not to mention on top of all the cutting edge tech included in the box, the PS3 essentially had a hardware ps2 inside enabling TRUE backwards compatibility.

The original PS3 is the greatest console ever made, and at $599 it was a steal. Literally.

[deadpoolio316]

Some of those prices are the later prices in the 360s life...The Wifi adapter originally started out at $169, The hard drive was like $170 for the 60gb and $140 for the 20gb...

The 360 literally had the WORST rechargeable battery packs, those damn things weren't made to last more than like 2 months max before you had to constantly keep it plugged in or the battery lasted 30 minutes IF you were lucky. The plug and play kit was like $60 when it first came out also

And don't forget the $60 wireless headset that was pretty cheaply made and broke pretty easily unless you wanted to buy the $30 junk wired headset

[OCEANGROWNKUSH]

@deadpoolio316

I was going off of pure memory, it was so long ago! 360 was a such a rip off console, and the last MS product i will ever spend money on.

[rainslacker]

I really miss the costs break downs that were part of every PS3 cost article where Xbox fan boys would mock the price without end. Thousands of break downs on how the PS3 was the better "value", and yet you still see xbox fan boys say the PS3 was too expensive.

What's funny is MS tried to use the whole "value" line for their reason for including the Kinect with the X1, and that was about the only thing they had over the PS4.

Way back when, when I thought about getting a 360 right when it first came out, I didn't even realize how it didn't have stuff that I would have used. The Blu-Ray(or HD movie format) was not something I would have considered, but i used everything else that was included with the PS3, and very glad I didn't buy a 360 blindly. The PS3 made it impossible to go back to standard format DVD's though, although I did have a great TV to play DVD's on ahead of most people.

[scark92]

I agree that the PS3 was an amazing console and it urks me when people say otherwise, I love it alot...

Though I disagree on the full price of €600 spent since my first few PS3's went through the 'Yellow Light of Death' other than that it was great!

[deadpoolio316]

Yeah but the failure rate on PS3 was I believe under 8%....Normal range for electronics is 10% or less is normal and anything above 10% is a joke...

Like the 360 that FACT had a 54% failure rate, MS only ever admitted to the 54% because every tech anything on earth all called them out on having such a high failure rate..

[Paulino30]

@ Rimeskeem

I did the same thing. $299 dollars well spent...lol

[Rimeskeem]

The ability to play PS2 games is really what sold me.

[3-4-5]

NO, $350 or $400 for a PS3 is money well spent...anything more was getting kicked in the nuts and trying to reason why it was actually ok for that to happen.

[343_Guilty_Spark]

Yup I try to convince myself that every time I turn mines on and get the YLOD.

[iliimaster]

hell no 599 well spent... looking back now Wish i could slap myself for spending that much on the ps3

[fullmetal297]

Considering the marginal difference of 200 dollars from the xbox 360, inferior ports from third-party developers due to the complex architecture of the Cell processor, and non-existent online marketplace and infant multiplayer, saying that the PS3 was worth 600 dollars during launch is overstatement.

[jcnba28]

Please tell me that was a joke LOL

[oasdada]

Got it for 300$s so im a happy dude!

[mokkeyrg2]

no

[Professor_K]

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA HO BHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHHAA

oh your serious? well let me laugh even harder HAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA OHoh PFFFFFFFTTTT..

[Rimeskeem]

I wanna see the people who didn't get the model play PS1 and PS2 games on there slim.

[Azzanation]

I am sure many gamers said the same thing after paying $499 for the X1.

[N4Gesus]

You're a fool if you paid that much on launch day.

[Rimeskeem]

I may be a fool but boy am I rich with memories :)

[Tzuno]

Don't lie to yourself, while the games on ps3 were awesome the console launch price was "Uber"

[Rimeskeem]

at the time getting a bluray player along with a console that could play PS1-PS3 games with a wireless adapter built in. 599 is a bargain.

[nitus10]

One the main saving graces of the original PS3 was it's backwards compatibility (got one day 1) which allowed me to play my PS2 collection as well. Unfortunately the PAL version was a mixture of hardware and software for backwards compatibility unlike the NTSC version which basically had full PS2 hardware.

Even today my FAT PS3 still works and so do most of my games although I do have some games that can freeze at certain points or in the case of "Grandia 2" not play at all.

BTW when I said "Freeze" I basically mean you can't proceed any further in the game (Star Ocean and Rachet and Clank 2). It's annoying if you get a freeze or hang but I can accept this if you can still continue.

BTW all PS3's play PS1 games although I would suggest you play on a small screen TV or in my case don't scale the output. I will admit some of my PS1 games while grainy (how did we originally put up with this) sometimes smooth out reasonably well. Of course game-play has not changed.

[Orbilator]

I imported mine and paid 900 uk pounds for it with ridge racer lol. Never looked back to be honest. Had years of fun.

[Nosred]

With this price the sony was very greedy and mercenary, so was the company that lost more fans from one generation to another.

[Kane22]

greedy??? apparently you need to look up why the ps3 cost so much...maybe it had to do with blu ray being new.....plus the 60gig models were a hundred dollars more because it had ps2 parts in them to play ps2 games from system natively.

[Nosred]

Yes, but does not run all games and was very limited and only worked in the first consoles FAT and this was NOT motico to charges that expensive, although some alienated defend and pay any price with the Sony brand.

[shysun]

@Nosred it was fully backwards compatible. Plus it had a Blu Ray player with hdmi output...all the 360 didn't have(hdmi,Blu ray).

[uth11]

it wasn't greedy, blu-rays cost more than the console at the time, so even at $599 they were selling it at a loss.

[_-EDMIX-_]

100% agreed! Mind you, that HUGE investment is why PS4 and XONE are as cheap as they are today.

Like Batman Arkham Knight? Witcher III? hell any open world game coming out for next gen?

Well....thank Sony for pushing that format early last gen, to get that cost down to have Bluray in both consoles, nice and cheap.

The reality is, if we had an engine that legit looked like REAL LIFE, in VR that took up HUGE space, you would want that as the next gen future, not LESSOR.

To have new concepts, takes space, new formats...cost money.

We can't ask for something truly "next gen" yet expect zero cost.

The cost for true next gen is a worthy cost.

[Dakidog]

I wouldn't go as far as calling them "greedy". The PS3 was the cheapest Blu-ray player that did everything, it honestly was a beast of a machine(imo).

[Ricegum]

The same thing that's happened to Xbox One, losing and awful lot of customers to Sony and thus the circle of life is now complete.

[nitus10]

Not true. The XB1 or Xbone as some call it had such draconian requirements and for some an unwanted but required peripheral called Kinnet, such that many staunch XB360 supporters jumped ship to the PS4.

Of course latter on Microsoft basically had to do a complete 180 (now XB1+179 ;-)) and remove their "always on" policy as well as making Kinnet an optional peripheral.

So no you cannot compare the XB1 launch to the PS3 launch becuse the PS3 was expensive since it had an inbuilt but replaceable disk, a Blu-Ray reader, HDMI, optical out, in-built power supply, card readers, four usb ports, Bluetooth controller (no dual shock 3)**.

When the PS3 slim came out the PS3 still had all the functionality of the original PS3 except there were now only 2 usb ports, no card readers and no PS2 backwards compatibility.

The only thing that Sony actually removed from all PS3's including the original PS3's via optional firmware update was the "Other OS" capability but let's be honest here who really did make use of that feature.

BTW The reason why Sony did not bring out a Dual Shock 3 for the PS3 launch was mainly because it was in litigation with "Immersion" for patent infringement.

[IIFloodyII]

Greedy by selling the system at a loss of something like $200 a sale? Sony were stupid for letting Ken Kutaragi go wild designing it, but they wasn't greedy with the price.

[fallacious]

greedy and mercenary wow what a combo. and you say that they're losing fans when the ps4 is the best selling console for the past 2 years and gaining more every day?

[KillerResistance]

U obviously dont know how much the parts in a PS3 cost at the time, especially blu-ray since blue-ray was really new.

[RosweeSon]

Was brand spanking new they invented it haha, not only were the Blu-Ray's expensive the launch PS3 wasn't a standard console by any stretch it was a fully fledged next gen system for the time. Had 4 USB ports instead of the later revised 2 it has Backwards compatabilty out of the box yep ALL ps1/ps2 titles and not to mention it had 3 ports for SD cards and such. Loved my launch PS3 until the Blu Ray died then I jumped ship to Xbox 360 minus the odd dabble on PS3, that was until last year when I left Microsoft, still got my 360 but no rush for an Xbox one, I'll grab the slim line version or just wait for the price to come down again for Christmas, Launch PS3 was a beast tho.
Still why Microsoft chose to emulate the PS3 launch is anyone's guess they struggled from day one and yeah the price didn't help £429 in the U.K but then Microsoft go and do the same announce this console and then expect people to pay over £400?! No ta.

[joeorc]

What?

The fact was Sony had no choice, the company invested Millions since 1997 on the evolution of a diode that went into the next evolution of DVD.

In 2002 the Main companies on the DVD standards forum all had a choice to choose HDDVD or Blu-Ray, Toshiba's format vs 18 of the largest optical drive companies chose blu-Ray back in 2001 to move forward because HDDVD was not done yet while Blu-Ray was already setvto go into production in 2003 first blu-ray video recorder hit in Japan and Asia Apr 10th 2003..yet HDDvd did not even have a consumer product for HDDvd until 2005.

Microsoft chose to support HDDvd because Blu-Ray consortium chose Java over iHD control software. Sony was not about to let all of the freaking investment into the evolution of DVD optical drives go to waste because Microsoft and Toshiba went against the majority of optical drive manufacturing companies.

Microsoft knew Sony did not have a choice but to go ahead with Blu-Ray. But we know how the end result ended 2 companies vs all 18 of the largest optical drive companies, Microsoft as you see is running Blu-Ray now .

[Spotie]

I wish more companies were so greedy they sold their products at a $200 loss.

[deadpoolio316]

Ummm the 20gb and 60gb models played ALL PS2 games, did you miss his point that they were the models that had PS2 guts built inside them...You also in 2006 couldn't get a blu ray player for less than $1000 exponentially raising the price of the console...

Everyone seems to forget that the 20gb was EXACTLY the same as the 60gb only it didn't have built in Wifi and was $499.99

[nitus10]

If you had an NTSC (USA, Japan) original PS3 you basically had a full PS2 hardware wise inbuilt. This version would pretty much play nearly all PS2 games.

If you had a PAL original PS3 (UK, Europe, Australia and New Zealand) then it contained a mixture of PS2 hardware with software emulation which only allowed up to 90% of PS2 games to be played. I actually have one of these and out of 60 PS2 games I still have one won't play and 3 get unrecoverable game freezes at some point in the game (annoying when you have spent over 20 hours on the game).

[Subaruwrx]

@Nosred - Ignorance is bliss!

[TheColbertinator]

Sony blew it with the PS3 price point.

[Kane22]

the blu ray technology was very new that's why it was high at launch. everyone should know this by now.

[ninsigma]

I don't understand how they blew it. They outsold the 360. Yes it was a crazy price but clearly people were willing to buy.

[ShaunCameron]

Only after 2010-11.

[PhucSeeker]

Not in its first 2 years. Ps3 was only getting itself back in the game when Uncharted 2 (and a bunch of other awesome exclusive games) and ps+ instant games came out. The price was very reasonable by then with the PS3 slim.

[memots]

such an awful price point that they outsold the competition every years while on the market .. yes awful ... /s

[zsquaresoff]

And then Xbox did the same thing years later and were humiliated by Sony in front of everyone.

[NeverHeavyMan]

Basically. One can only imagine the, "party backstage" from SCEi during E3 2013. It was a corporate massacre on-stage.

[TrollityTroll]

Something I've been wondering this gen regarding consistency.
This is the site (amongst other sites and users) that say the XB1 is doing fine, if not as well as the PS4.
Yet those same sites (and users) make statements like "Sony literally struggled with the Playstation3 for the first few years"

However, based on post launch sales charts, the XB1 is selling at the same pace as the PS3.
So if they're both selling at a materially equivalent pace why is one considered to have "struggled" whilst the other is apparently doing "great"?

[MasterCornholio]

Because they were comparing the PS3 sales to the PS2s.

[TrollityTroll]

Really? Articles like this:
http://www.businessinsider....

And this:
http://m.winsupersite.com/n...

And this:
http://www.destructoid.com/...

And this:
https://gigaom.com/2008/12/...

Along with umpteen other articles from that time period comparing the PS3 sales to the 360 sales with no mention of comparitive PS2 lifetime sales ...

[KevWriter]

I think Gamingbolt and Dealspwn spend all day, every day thinking of negative Sony articles and positive MS/Xbox articles. It's like their mission in life to raise up the Xbox to the level of complete adoration by all.

[JonnyBigBoss]

Hey, here's a thought: who cares? When you look back when you're 40 years old will you be proud of yourself for spending countless hours worrying about console sales? It's all a big waste of time.

[Spotie]

And yet you've spent your time in such articles just like the rest of us.

[mayberry]

@JBB "look back when you're 40", I'm 50 and actually had a "Magnavox Odyssey" brand new from the only retailer that would sell this new "Video Game Console" which was Sears. I've been gaming ever since and gladly purchased my fat 60G ps3 at launch. You are right, I have never worried about sales as long as the games were coming.

[TrollityTroll]

Yet here you are ... commenting about sales. It's a strange world yah?

And you want to talk about who's more invested? You've been a member 2200 days with 5700 comments, averaging just over 2 comments a day. I've been a member 300 days with 100 posts, averaging 0.3 comments per day (clearly rounding here before you want to be a pedant). So who, exactly, is more invested in this? Look back on that when you're 40 years old ...

[rainslacker]

I'll let you know in 5 months when I turn 40. I imagine in 5 months I'll still care because the gaming press is just awful, and goes to great lengths to try and discredit companies for the stupidest of reasons.

[FallenAngel1984]

People clearly have lower standards for the Xbox brand than they do for the PlayStation brand.

[ocelot07]

Looking back now the price crazy. But at the time blu-ray was brand new and I believe was the cheapest or one of the cheapest and also best blu-ray players on the market.

But you know what. Even though it cost me £470 for my PS3 and a copy of Motorstorm. Looking back it was worth it. I got so much use out of it over the 6-7 years before the PS4 arrived. Playing some amazing games such as Uncharted, MGS4, Ratchet & Clank, Motorstorm, Heavy Rain, LBP, Demon's Souls.

[loopygames]

4 USB Ports
Flash card reader
Slot loading disc drive
Touch sensitve power and eject buttons
At the time of launch it was more powerful than most PCs
Free Online Multiplayer
Rechargeable controller
Bluetooth headset compatible
Built in wifi
Upgradeable hard drive
Remote play with PSP on select titles
Bluray + BD Live & 3D Bluray via firmware updates
Full Backwards Compatibility with PS2
Physical disc games using Bluray (scratch resistance coating and no need for multiple discs)
They managed to get The Last of Us running on 2006 hardware

^Definitely worth the $599 thinking back on it now. I didn't get one until it dropped to $399 since I bought a Xbox 360 at launch.

[Intranquill]

If this is true, that they were aware of how badly their competition was priced, then you have to wonder what Microsoft was thinking THIS time around when they announced a 500 dollar piece of junk with some of the most anti-consumer tactics I've ever heard of.

It's great they were laughing, but I wanna know, who's laughing now?

[Hercules189]

They're going to do more than fine. This year they are going to own the competition games wise, cause theirs nothing to compete with this holiday, and next year is also going to be the biggest year for Microsoft.

[Intranquill]

While I usually don't reply to opinion/bias, I will for you.

You're simply speculating. I love Gears, Halo, and Forza. Am I burnt out on them? A little bit.

It's hard to say if they will, because I think you're underestimating what No Mans Sky (assuming it's coming out this year) can do, along with Uncharted collection and a few other solid exclusives. You are right in PS4 has no TRUE blockbusters this holiday, but with a plethora of multiplatform games that have, up until this point, a proven track record of selling more on PS4 and running better, do they really need exclusives to sell systems? We can't forget Microsofts best selling third party game now has timed DLC on PS4, with most CoD fans arguing that Black Ops is the best in the series.

February 2016, when the sales numbers come in, we'll know.

[scientificreasoning]

Own the competition by being outsold? LOL you are dilusional...in many places in europe X1 has 10% market share... x1 will sell half what 360 did. Next year will be an even bigger year for ps4..whats your point.

[iceman06]

The issue isn't really about "this year", which really amounts to "this holiday", because MS has repeated it's time old strategy of releasing it's core of heavy hitters during the holiday. The issue is...what exclusives have carried them TO this holiday? What will they have to offer 6 months to a year AFTER this holiday? That's the point where MS has traditionally struggled. They have a core of heavy hitters. But, in doing that, they have a tendency to sacrifice the remainder of the year in terms of exclusives. A GREAT holiday doesn't equal a great year. Sales-wise, it can do a LOT for a company. Consumer-wise, it doesn't help convince people who might be wondering if MS has changed their stripes.

[ocelot07]

There is that same statement again I keep reading about this "holiday". I agree Microsoft have a good line up this "Holiday". That I can't deny at all.

But the PS4 has been killing the XB1 and continues to kill the XB1 in terms of exclusives for the first 9 or 10 months of 2015.

Yes this "Holiday" Microsoft have 2 well established exclusive titles and 1 well established timed exclusive. But what have they brought to the table so far this year? Other than Gears remaster next month?

[rainslacker]

I think MS knew that the tech between the two consoles was similar enough and with the slightly more powerful hardware in the PS4, they probably figured they could get away with including a camera for $500. It was also heavily rumored that Sony would include a camera, and if they had, the price point was likely to definitely be $500.

I don't think MS expected Sony to come in at $400, and probably expected a level playing field price wise.

As far as the DRM, I believe MS believed that they were somehow much more ingrained in the customers mind, and could get away with such tactics because they have been doing it for so long with their PC software. They did know that they couldn't outright get rid of retail, which is why they had their silly middle man scheme for trading/selling used games. Even up to last year, everyone's savior, Phil Spencer, has gone on record to state that the customer simply wasn't up to speed with MS in terms of the DRM market...like somehow the consumer will one day be all OK with such nonsense.

I'd say that MS was definitely taken down a notch or two at the start of this gen, and I'm glad someone kicked them into becoming a decent gaming company again instead of the company that just showed what MS was all about at the end of the 360 and leading up to the launch of the X1.

[SpaceRanger]

How did they shoot themselves in the foot? Do people realize that at the time that at $500 and $600 it was the cheapest blu-Ray player available? For a VERY long while Blu Ray players were almost $900. That the cell technology is what paved the way for better hardware that could produce games like TLOU, GOW, Infamous, LBP, MGS4, etc. Wireless controller out of the box. Upscaling PS2 and PS1 games. And free online. With many more features that were actually centered around games unlike a certain console this gen at launch. You bought a PS3 because you knew what you were getting in terms of GAMING content, why would anyone buy a console for anything else?

The MGS4 bundled version of the PS3 was the best investment at the time for playing High Quality content (games/music/movies), High Quality discs for games (no 4 disc games), and some of the most fun an innovative exclusives that revolutionized the Playststion brand in my opinion.

[Shadow Man]

Wow when you put it that way it sounds the PS3 was Godsent :*)

Well said.

[WeAreLegion]

499 and 599. Why do people always exclude the 20 GB model?

[Bathyj]

Didn't suit their agenda. You couldn't very well whine that it was 100 bucks too much if you admitted there was a model $100 cheaper.

[deadpoolio316]

I've never understood that either, Ive had arguments with mental midgets about how the 60gb model was the only one that had PS2 guts inside it..

NO the 20gb model did also, the only difference between them was that the 20gb model didn't have built in Wifi....

[neocores]

Lol i remember when it came out for 600$ and my dad told me i could never touch it. Lol i am glad they opened their eyes.

[scientificreasoning]

YEt ps3 ended up selling better...l\

[WellyUK]

doesn't mean it's better...

[Picnic]

Bluray and the Cell cost a lot to develop and implement, plus having to include an Emotion Engine in every early PS3 so that it was backwards compatible, something that the Xbox360, which couldn't even play every original Xbox game, didn't require.

Sony and studios developing on the PS3 also innovated with motion capture in games, such as Uncharted, Heavy Rain and Beyond Two Souls. Sony had a much wide portfolio of exclusive games than Microsoft. Heavenly Sword, Motorstorm, Killzone, Resistance, God of War, Uncharted, The Last of Us, Sly Cooper, The Unfinished Swan, Journey, Puppeteer, Heavy Rain, Beyond: Two Souls. I'm not saying I'm bothered about them all (I'm not a Ratchet and Clank fan) but no wonder that the Xbox360 cost so much less when its build quality was so inferior, from the materials to the Red Ring Of Death.

Plus- very importantly- do not forget that Sony gave- and continue to give on PS3- free online for the full course of the PS3. Xbox Live will make huge amounts of money for Microsoft.

But the innovator often doesn't win and whilst the PS3 ending up selling about the same as the Xbox360 overall, the Xbox360 did soften up its image just enough to attract more players than the original Xbox did without alienating its Halo and Gears of War fans. The Kinect probably did help them for a while in this respect.

But not only have Microsoft failed to demonstrate in any meaningful way that the Kinect is particularly useful for gaming on the Xbox One, but they have less horsepower and so their pricepoint was more a reflection that they had spent so much on developing a new controller and improving the build quality of the Xbox One in comparison to that of the Xbox 360.

But these are the things that the PS3 had already got right.

The PS4 might not take the risks that the PS3 did (until the Morpheus). But its foundation, as being the most powerful console on paper (just look at its explosions and you can see the details outperform the Xbox One)- and the goodwill carried over from the PS3- was already so solid that it deserved to do well. The Xbox One has some interesting exclusives but, for me, personally, I will never forget that Sony have allowed me to play online for over 8 years on my PS3 for free.

The early PS3 price was mainly for gamers who want backwards compatibility. Once Uncharted 2 and a slimmer version came out, the PS3 was a superb deal.

[2pacalypsenow]

Only Sony.could release a $600 gaming machine and have people buy it

[PhoenixUp]

Only Sony could release a $600 console and have it become the 4th highest selling console of all time

[rainslacker]

I brought a 3DO for $699. Was an amazing console for it's time, but seriously lacked support. Granted, not many people brought the system, which is why it never really caught on.

[PR_FROM_OHIO]

Kinda like SONY was laughing at Microsoft at E3 2013 huh Pete??? LMFAO Karma is a bitch!!!!

[Ristul]

I wonder how much they laughed when Sony announced the price point of 399$ for the PS4. Karma smack!

[rainslacker]

Given what was going on at the time, I think Sony announcing no restrictive DRM was probably more a concern than the price to MS. With the Kinect, they at least had the slim chance of proving that it was worthwhile. I mean...did you see Fighter Within...compelling software right there.

However, I do believe Sony stated they were celebrating when MS announced the X1 price.

[YodaCracker]

They did indeed say they were "dancing in the aisles" when Microsoft announced the Xbox One's price. However, that did not spark vitriol like what I've seen in the comments on this article. Peter Moore (who has not worked for Microsoft in 8 years) seems to have really struck a nerve by lightheartedly mentioning events from over 10 years ago. Like seriously... what's with all the ugly, defensive comments in here?

[rainslacker]

It's just regurgitating the same arguments that were around when the PS3 price was first announced, and kept getting mentioned to paint Sony as arrogant for all of last gen. Memories linger.

Peter Moore is hardly a well respected figure as far as CEO's go, and it hardly matters what company he works for.

I don't think either company did their celebrating with vitriol, but comments in forums are going to go that route because it's just the way things are. Everything that can be used as a negative will be made into the worst thing ever, and forever be twisted infinitely until something sparks the conversation anew.

[TheOnlyMastrx]

When I saw the first PS3 commercial, so hype, this gen with Xbox One and PS4 I was not as intrigued. But I bought an Xbox One and I play it, its fun, just not the same feeling as the last console generations huge leap forward.

[FoxyGotGame]

Past hiccups on both sides are one thing, but at least PS4/X1 are using PC architecture so the price point is low.

That being stated, I wouldn't have mind paying an extra 50GBP at launch for a beefier CPU. It is what it is, so I'm still happy with my purchases this gen.

[sprinterboy]

Ps3 launch UK bundle I purchased.

£425
Casino royal
Resistance fall of man
Super rub a dub
Plus psn was free

Ps4 launch UK bundle I purchased.

£429 plus £40 playstation plus = £469
Killzone shadow fall
Additional controller
Playstation camera
£40 playstation plus purchased when I got home as MP was required

The power of marketing, not so different in the grande scheme of things yet we all praise the price point of ps4 and yet slate sonys dicision with the ps3 price point.

Basically the ps4 was £40 cheaper than the ps3 as the additional controller for ps3 would have been the price of the ps plus subscription, so I was only losing out on a camera which wasn't even out at launch of ps3

[dillhole]

Consoles SHOULD be more expensive. If you are hoping for truly 'next gen' graphics for the next Sony/MS consoles AND for them to be under $400 then you'll be disappointed again because it just isn't possible to match a PC for that price.

[Chaos-Dad]

599$ with Blu-ray (3D) Player (2006!), Card-Reader, 4x USB and a good Hardware (no RROD Shit) -> worth it.

[UNKLE]

No there is no RROD but the first ps3 model have YLOD= Yellow led of death..

[FoxyGotGame]

True, I know because my 60GB launch unit suffered YLOD after 9 months. Sony quit production of 60GB by that time, and HMV UK only stocked 40GB model. I lost PS2 B/C & 20GB HDD Space, even though I later upgraded to 500GB.

I was really angry until the pretty retail assistant informed me the PS3 unit had been officially reduced to £299. She smiled and handed me a 40GB PS3 plus £125 refund, even asking me to go pick out any game for my trouble. Made it a slightly easier pill to swallow.

[rainslacker]

@thatPSguy

The YLOD isn't hard to fix. All you have to do is reset the fan and put on new thermal paste. Most people could do this themselves. The YLOD is there to prevent damage to the system from overheating, same way most PC's will shut down now if they overheat. the RROD on the other hand happens after the damage is done, and isn't a simple fix, although on occasion it could be repaired with a hair dryer or a soldering iron if you were skilled enough.

If you can't use a screwdriver, or don't feel comfortable using thermal paste(most people use too much) you could have looked for a electronics repair place that would do it for $50-100. It's also likely everyone has at least one friend that is capable of building a computer, and they could do it as well.

In any case, Sony repaired them and sent back the original console. They didn't replace them with newer consoles. I suggested people do this when they came to me for repairs if it was under warranty. If it wasn't under warranty, I usually fixed it cheaper. It took me all of 15 minutes from removing the first screw to putting it back together. You didn't even have to take apart the whole PS3 to do it.

Also, why would you try to replace a console at the store after 9 months? It'd be under warranty for a year, and that would be no cost to you.

[FoxyGotGame]

@Rainslacker

Well you assume everybody would risk opening a still under warranty PS3 to re-thermal paste it, plus it's not my job to fix my own console, it is Sony's.

Your other comment/question was '...why would you try to replace a console at the store after 9 months? It'd be under warranty for a year, and that would be no cost to you .....and Sony replaced 60GB models with 60GB models' Wow the arrogance in your comment. So what do you know? You don't know if I had rang Sony first, and you don't know what was exchanged on the phone. I was advised I was NOT guaranteed a replacement 60GB by the Sony rep I spoke with. You assume too much Rainslacker.

..and I did not try, but did replace the PS3 at the same store it was purchased from after 9 months because it was a damn sight quicker than waiting on Sony to repair/replace via Courier....and it was at no cost to me. If you read my comment properly, I even had money returned to me which is better than waiting for Sony to send me a replacement unit that may or may not be 60GB B/C model. Finally & actually my original comment was to Chaos-dad, but you're welcome all the same Rainslacker.

[rainslacker]

Right...so you returned it to the store instead of contacting Sony, then made it seem like you lost a feature because you didn't go through the process.

If you weren't willing to wait, then that's on you. Stop acting like Sony is the one that took away your BC. If you called them, they would have asked you to return it, or sent you to a local electronics repair company if it was available. I know quite a few people that have done this, because I used to be a certified repair "shop" for Sony, and I got plenty of referrals from them. Sony paid me directly, and the customer didn't have to put out a dime. The repair literally took about 15 minutes, and the customer typically waited if they came by to get it repaired.

If you were "advised" that you wouldn't get the same console back, then you should have made a fuss, because I've not known one single person that has not gotten back a BC model if that's what they sent in. Even today, you can still get back a full BC model. It's possible that you misunderstood them because even if they couldn't return your actual console that you sent in, they will send back one of similar make, and if for some reason they aren't able to, they will ask you what course you want to take.

Instead you took it back to the store and got a decent deal on a replacement. To me, 125 and a free game seems like a fair trade for losing BC. Sony wasn't going to charge you, you just didn't want to wait a week or two. Simple as that.

[sprinterboy]

Good luck playing uncharted, gow, gran turismo series etc, when will you pc guys get it, yes us console owners know and acknowledge pc can perform better gfx etc but how many pc developers truly push the games they make for ultra settings only.

pc gamers, I would estimate about 10% of pc gamers actually play pc games on ultra settings and don't get me wrong I would love someone like naughty dog to make a ultra settings only game for pc (wow mind boggles) but that's never going to happen.

[PhoenixUp]

Did Microsoft not realize that even at a higher price, PS3 was selling at a faster rate day 1 than 360? PS3 even surpassed 360 in total sales in Europe and Asia in only 1 year and two months on the market. Does Microsoft also not realize that their fastest selling console is now at the same sales pace as Sony's slowest selling console?

The high price was necessary because it allowed Blu-Ray to be the de facto format. I'd rather have a higher amount of data on a disc so there's less games that come on multiple discs like it would be on HD-DVD. Owners of Wii U and Xbox One should consider themselves grateful that PS3 helped win the format war that allowed most games today to be on large Blu-Ray discs.

Its not like Microsoft isn't guilty of high prices either. They extremely nickel and domed consumers with 360 features that didn't bother PS3 owners like Wi-Fi adaptors, expensive proprietary HDD, no HDMI day 1, no recharachable controllers, HD-DVD add-on, faulty hardware, locking basic features behind a subscription paywall, region locking, and more. At least when you bought a PS3 you were pretty much set, to get 360 to have the same exact capabilities on 360 would set you back a lot further than $600.

[BABY-JEDI]

MS must have thought it was Christmas. But Sony turned it around last gen & made this gen Christmas for everyone
; )

[UNKLE]

I heard Microsoft wanna buy AMD then sony need to pay to MS :) hehehe what sony will do then?

http://www.kitguru.net/comp...

And anyway if square enix would not fuck up the entire last gen FF games it would be more quality games for PS3 FF13-1 with the original plan and exclusive PS3 game and Versus 13 too. Say what you want but i think the old versus 13 concept was better than Ff15.

[Denny_Crane]

Microsoft has to sony for the blu ray drive in each Xbox 1 now.

[Condemnedman]

The ps3 was not a great console but had some great games and a blu ray player the ui and the rubbish download for game updates killed it for me. I did love tlou though. Every one to their own but for me xbox 360 wins hands down.

[thecowsaysmoo]

I bet the Xbox team celebrates every time they look at Sony's stocks.

Edit: I don't know why people are talking bad about the Xbox One. Xbox One is selling faster than the Xbox 360. This means Xbox brand is growing.

[ajax17]

"We were all partying backstage" and yet the lost last gen in the end. Just as they'll lose this gen

[Tedakin]

Sorta puts the Xbone's original price in perspective. 100 bucks cheaper than the PS3 7 years later, yet was still seen as too high.

[aquaticDonut]

$600 was a ridiculously unreasonable price point. That said, I still use the one I got just a couple months after launch.

[Jagerfarts]

Most of you seem to be forgetting that the PS3 was a fantastic Blu-ray player, and at a price of $600, at a time where stand alone blu-ray players were still upwards of $1000, you really couldn't go wrong, Sony made a good choice, sure it took a bit for it to take off, but the PS4 being the cheapest blu-ray player at the time, drove down blu-ray player prices in the rest of the market as well. I just wish they hadn't removed linux support.

[Kavorklestein]

$1000 dollar bluray player?
What are you smoking and where can I get some?
NO BluRay player has EVER cost 1000 dollars.
Not even the first ones cost that much.

PS3 made a great bluray player, but your giving it way too much credit if you think any People on this whole damn planet were buying $1000 Bluray drives.

The most I ever saw for one was 500 bucks, and it was an overpriced drive.

High prices are why the bluray market was nonexistent until PS3 gave people a fair price on a drive that could also play games.

And don't forget, there were LOTS of people who don't play games all that often, who got PS3 BECAUSE it was a bluray player, and they could play the occasional game or two a year on it.

Same thing with the PS2.

PS4 is the pretty much the first sony console to actually BE bought Almost PURELY for it's feats as a gaming machine.

It's doing well, VERY WELL.
But chill out on the exaggeration of cost.
We were all there.

[poor_cus_of_games]

I'm sure old Peter Moore isn't doing too much partying these days lol.

[Aloren]

Why not ? EA is doing just fine.

[amnalehu]

I wonder if Peter Moore recalls that even after launching a full year ahead of the PS3 and $200-$300 cheaper than the PS3, that the PS3 still surpassed the 360 in sales.

[YodaCracker]

Peter Moore hasn't worked for Microsoft in eight years.

[amnalehu]

And?

[FallenAngel1984]

Peter Moore forgets to mention that Xbox 360, despite all its advantages, still ended up the slowest selling major 7th gen console.

Not to mention the various ways Microsoft tried to rip off its consumers. I'd rather pay $600 for a complete in one package than over that price just to get 360 to match PS3 feature for feature.

[hiawa23]

All I bought for the PS3 last gen were its exclusives for single player. All my online took place on the 360 and multiplatform. Say what you want, to this day I still use my PS3 for dvd, blu-ray play back as it is great for that and better than the X1 and PS4 at doing that right now.

[jay2]

There's no question in my mind I'd pay £430 again for my ps. I wouldn't (and didn't) for the next xbox

[ff7100]

Just like Sony was partying backstage when they announced 499$ for xbone.

[PS3and4_HAS_GAMES]

Ummmmm who's partying now? AND who was partying at the end of last gen?..that would be SONY!!!!!

[NerdStalker]

I have no regrets buying a ps3 at $599 dollars, it was a excellent purchase at the time. Hell we got a blu ray player which has lasted the test of time unlike hd-dvd, never had a fault with ps3, unlike the 360 rrod which i'm sure just about every early adopter of the 360 has experienced. As for lack of quality games who are they kidding there was lots of games out for the ps3 within no time. Most games out for the 360 before ps3 launch were last gen games on a next gen console so it wasn't like 360 was that appealing, ps3 was a superior machine overall.

[NeoGamer232]

Ps3 was a lousily designed console. It turned out that architectural flaws had it on par with 360 a console released a year earlier and cheaper. The console was plagued by performance issues until Sony started making publishers install games on the hard drive.

But, Sony accomplished their goal with ps3. It was a cheap bluray player which won them the hd optical disc format war.

And this generation Ms made similar mistakes with their console.

[Spotie]

There was so much BS in that comment I don't even know where to begin.

[jeremiah64]

how is paying $600 great

[Vinster]

Yup, at $599 it's what help blu-ray become the standard format for HD video and large amounts of data on disc as well as sink the HD-DVD format that "some" companies assumed was the future.

[greenlantern2814]

Much like Sony was doing this time.
IMO it was worth it, bigger HD, built in WiFi, bluray player, and B.C. was it a good move on Sony's part. No. It took them years to catch up in sales, and get a good game library. But in the end they turned it around.

[Enigma_2099]

Now I love my BC PS3 phat, but I'll be d***ed if it was worth $600.

[level 360]

One great thing they can't take away from PS3 console is that it was honestly revolutionary in it's design/hardware features that is why the "now" generation consoles ( PS4 and even XBox ONE ) have benefited by having their concept-to-development-to-prod uction stage shortened.

Games like Uncharted/The Last of Us/Beyond: Two Souls/GT6 really pushed the boundaries of the console's strengths.

[WizzroSupreme]

I'm sure Microsoft was, but both sold really well thanks to a long shelf-life. Wonder how it's gonna turn out this time given both charging out of the gate so early, especially Sony.

[Djinn]

YA'LL AREN'T PARTYING ANYMORE THOUG, EH, JIGS??

[lemoncake]

Sony was a bit too cocky coming off the ps2 success when launching the PS3, just like how microsoft was over cocky coming off the 360 success this gen. It's a fine line between success and failure.

[joel_c17]

What people forget is that to get a 360 with the same features as the ps3 (wifi and a year of gold) you would be paying around 549.

Plus you would need to buy 2-3 of them because MS completely forked up the hardware.

I would pay 599 for a quality over 400 for crap.

[Germany7]

And in the end of the last generation, Sony made a party.

[Azzanation]

So now paying more for a console is a good thing? I guess if it had a PlayStation badge on it, its ok.

Its no different to why gamers complained about the X1 pricing. Gamers want a game console, I know I did when I brought my PS3. I didn't want all the extra fat on it. $599 was an extremely high price for a games consoles. Sure its good if you wanted a Blu-Ray player as well as a games console, but it was horrible if you already own a Blu-Ray player. X1 came with Kinect which was at least related to Games and the systems features and it was still cheaper then the PS3 and Kinect alone is $100+

The 360 brought Sony down to earth just like the PS4 brought XB1 down to earth. Without each other expect to be paying alot more for your consoles.

[CantBeStopped]

Well Peter looks like Sony had the last laugh.

[ServerBOT]

$599 over there, around $1000 in Aus at the time.

[Gwiz]

Microsoft clearly didn't learn from that by adding a peripheral that made the console more expensive and saying it was mandatory.

They're going to have a hard time recovering like Sony did.

Edit:The PS2 launch had a similar price tag when we had our pre€ currency it was close to €600 at launch.To me they were both expensive so i don't know why the PS3 got that much backlash as the PS2 had a similar pricing over here.(both new format pushers).

[Vithar]

Karma's a bitch huh?

[UNKLE]

PSfanboys cant take the truth about ps3 YLOD...

[MeteorPanda]

the PS3 being the cheapest bluray player for a long time may of helped XD

[Steptoe]

Went through countless Xbox 360's. Still have my first ps3. Cost me less money in the long run.

[Blueraven316]

The price was an issue. Glad they launched with a good price for ps4. PS3 was still a great system though.

[Giru017]

"[...]Sony literally shot themselves in the foot when[...]."

Stopped reading there...

[Sokol]

I remember paying 699$ + tax for 60GB hardware backwards compatible PS3. It wasn't cheap but the beauty of the bluray player and the games were well worth it.

Today, I still have the same original PS3 primarily under my living room for blu-ray movies, streaming netflix, PSN movies rentals and occasional game where my younger sons friends play.

My PS4 is comfortable in my own bedroom where I can peacefully enjoy quiet gaming time :)

The PS3 did come with state of the art technology and it wasn't cheap. That's how the market works. However, i did enjoyed 399$ PS4 price tag. Excellent purchase.

[DarkZane]

Yeah and in the end, the PS3 worldwide sales passed the 360 and it ended in second place while the 360 finished last.

Meanwhile, Sony also won the new format war with blu-ray. Let's be realistic, Blu-Ray was better in every way, more space and better read/write speed. Even if PS3 wouldn't have included Blu-Ray, it would have won over HD-DVD.

[Gwiz]

People looked at the price and judged,X360 came out... Hooray it's cheaper and massive RROD occurred.While PS3's YLOD was less likely to happen.I wouldn't say it's a Sony mistake but rather a MS failure to not have a more reliable system.That and Sony having a lot of exclusive games turned things around.I want to see MS turning things around with the 8th gen,that's going to take a miracle.