Xbox One Easier To Program But PS4 Seems More Powerful - White Night Dev

OSome Studio's Mathieu Fremont also confirms that a Wii U version is not happening.

[Hellsvacancy]

Seems more powerful? it either is or it isn't

[Gazondaily]

It is.

Fin.

[Hellsvacancy]

Fin

----------------------------- ----

:)

[xHeavYx]

Are "journalists" still asking Indie devs which console is more powerful?

[Primal]

You're absolutely right, it's hard to swallow for some people.

[EvilWay]

But the power difference is minimal

[DoubleM70]

Oh you guys still haven't learned. 2yrs later and still talking about the same crap.

[NatFanBoyRestricted]

Cindy, the Order is the best looking game on a gaming platform? Irish just posted pics with his comments that look amazing and somehow ps4 is the only platform in your little world? If a multi-plat game can run 900 on x1, 1080 on ps4, 4k on pc, I can confidently say you aren't aware of what's going on in the gaming world. Yea ps4 stronger than xbox, but doesn't mean it can walk on any pc. You know the hardware statistics between console, but somehow missed everything thing else you think you woulda learned on the way. Wow

[GameNameFame]

@EvilWay.

Lol says who? by what data?

http://www.cinemablend.com/...

Nah quite massive according to actual benchmark.

[andrarfc]

And all those virtually indistinguishable games really demonstrate that power.

[Blaze929]

Seems? 50% more powerful seems? Or whats going on here

[SpinalRemains138]

Perhaps

[pivotplease]

Ambiguous PR jargon seems to be at play. Not the first time. Won't be the last.

[Yetter]

probably hard to tell if you aren't pushing the limits of either system. And White Night definitely is not

[AngelicIceDiamond]

"PS4 Seems More Powerful"

Lol ok what else is knew

[MasterCornholio]

He was just trying to be polite.

We all know that the PS4 is more powerful though. I'm surprised that he said the XB1 was easier to make the game for.

[Gamer1982]

I don't get how one is easier to program for?? Surely thats upto the developer since they both have the same architecture the only difference is one uses DX12 the other uses other options such as opengl. It would only be more difficult to program on ps4 if you find dx easier to program for. Nothing to do with hardware. I'm sure you would find a lot of devs who would say the opposite and say ps4 is easier.
This was not the same last generation however as both consoles had there own hardware meaning they had to run console exclusive APIs meaning devs had to learna whole new language to program. However since Xbox 360 was powerpc it was fairly similar (but not the same) as x86 meaning it was a lot easier to develop for.

[Kumomeme]

x1 seems easier to program maybe due to api and tools...the api had some dx12 features already..well dont know that...as i recall ps4 is easier to compared to the predecessor but still...can't denied the raw power specs different

[chrissx]

Seems? Ps4 is more powerful and that's a fact

[InTheLab]

Well that's only according to math and science...and we all know how reliable that nonsense is /s

[Jihaad_cpt]

Haha have a bubble

[baryonyx]

When someone says math and science is nonesense, it's easy to calculate how stupid you are.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

@baryonyx

You're just joking around. Trust me.

[Azzanation]

Yup just like how Maths and science proved the PS3 to be more powerful...

[Kumomeme]

so are you saying those scientific calculation are nonsense?then how those engineer done their work until now?

[InTheLab]

So I really have to explain sarcasm now?

/s means sarcasm.

This is also a play on the people who used Google to decide whether vaccines are safe instead of what is agreed upon by scientist.

This is also a jab at climate change deniers that claim they aren't scientists so they can't understand humans are responsible for climate change.

The reason why my comment was marked as funny is because I was joking.

I can explain humor if you guys like...

[AndrewLB]

InTheLab- If man-caused global warming is 100% factual and cannot be debated, care to explain why NASA, NOAA, and the Global Historical Climate Network have ALL been caught red-handed altering both historical and recent temperature data, with the express intent of making the past look cooler and current temperatures warmer?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...

Then when you factor in the built-in bias toward warming due to so many temperature stations being located intentionally in city-centers and places like airports, these so-called heat-islands skew the numbers more and more toward the left's desired outcome.

The only data that is not inherently flawed is that obtained by satellites, and last I checked we've been in a cooling trend for many years.

http://www.c3headlines.com/...

[ps5fanboy]

Wait , wasn't there an article a few days back or last week , a dev saying the ps4 is easier to develop for??
I suppose it depends what programming techniques they specialise in , we all know only aliens can program for the ps4 tech.

[CaptainObvious878]

Seem to get a different answer depending on who you ask. Very strange.

[Dark_king]

I think I can explain that its all to do with the games.If the game is something complex and pushing the systems then the PS4 is easier to program for.If its not pushing the system then the XBoxOne is easier to program for.When you start pushing more its less work on the PS4 since your not having to jump through as many hoops to tap into the systems power.Of course we will see this change a bit when MS fully releases DirectX 12 on the XBoxOne.

[Phoenix76]

@ps4guy (hate using that other term), yes your right, an article was posted only few days back saying the complete opposite.

It was a gaming bolt web page that posted it. Would of provided a link but phone won't paste it. Article was dated 5 march referring to a game called bladestorm.

[kurruptor]

Ya it is kind of a preference.

One thing I've never seen a dev say is that the Xbone is more powerful.

[SpinalRemains138]

No, not developers. Only that Mr. X character and a few deluded gamers around here who swear that secret sauce and DX12 will push the One into unseen console territory.

They're both good machines. For what they're offering, for the price and the developers who work on them? Its a steal, man.

[rainslacker]

That Stardock guy constantly says the Xbox shows more power with DX12.

Or I think one time he said something along the lines that DX12 will let the X1 surpass the PS4...so you can extrapolate from that that the PS4 is more powerful by default right now....so guess you're right. Common consensus among devs is that the PS4 is more powerful. Now just to get the X1 fans to believe devs when it goes against their own beliefs....and math/science as stated above.

[kurruptor]

Wardell said himself that the PS4 hardware is substantially better. Also that the PS4 will be optimized more just as well.

[Gamer1982]

All depends on your programming knowledge as they very similar to pc now. So devs going into design with a lot of back knowledge unlike last gen where they had to learn a completely new code at least in the ps3s case.

[Kumomeme]

yep..and i heard xbox one api much unstable and buggy..another reason they really need dx12...

well maybe depends on devs...

[RiPPn]

Weren't most devs saying the PS4 is easier to program for because of the unified memory whereas the xbox sram complicated things? Maybe Microsoft has matured their dev kit to make it easier? Even still if one was already easy and the other was difficult but bexane easier wouldn't then both be easy to program for?

[n4rc]

Its probably down to directx vs opengl or along those lines.. Gotta assume some are more comfortable with one over the other

[Gamer1982]

Thats exactly it it's nothing to do with the actual console its all about what your most experienced with and so what comes more naturally to you. Surprised White Night dev though a primarily indie dev would go with xbox in that case though as you would think they primarily used opengl and other open source like engines in the past.

[Jazz4108]

Have to remember micro are specialist in software so they should be able to outperform Sony hands down in that field.

[rainslacker]

An API doesn't automatically make something easier to program for. That job is up to the SDK being used to access the API. The API just makes it so you can access things without writing your own code to do so.

I can't speak for the Xbox SDK, but I do know Sony's SDK has always had high praise for it's accessibility and features.

I will give MS credit though. they do know how to make an SDK...but nowadays, most devs use an engine not provided by the manufactuer. If a dev is using an engine, and not taking direct advantage of an API, then it's hard to take a claim of which is easier to program for seriously, because a multi-plat engine can build over different API's with only a few instances where something special may need to be made. A lot of it depends on the game.

[JCOLE13195]

Seems? Pretty sure it's a well known fact that the PS4 is more powerful.

[asmith2306]

Good programmers will be able to program for both with ease.

[Christopher]

Exactly.

[L0wlifeGamer]

Xbox One easier to program? I heard a lot of other devs talking about the opposite.

[Lucreto]

http://gamingbolt.com/ps4-i...

Must be down to different techniques.

[Why o why]

Some drivers prefer automatics, some prefer manual.

It doesn't bode well for the console that's easier to develop on being behind. By logic better results should be achievable quicker than the console that isn't as easy to develop on. This further compounds the power gap narrative. What that gap is, is debatable.

[Kingdomcome247]

The latter end of that headline is pretty much a given, but that's the first I've heard the former part said. Usually you hear that it's both easier to program for, and it's more powerful. I confess to not reading the article, though. I've grown very skeptical regarding the links that I click on here. Especially if it contains, "Xbox One/PS4", in the title.

[Gore-Content]

xbox EASIER to develop. PS4 SEEMS to be more powerful. Looks like these people don't know what the heck they're doing.

[reallyNow]

At the risk of defiling the dead horse, the PS4 has stronger hardware. The XB1 will never be able to catch up. Yes, with better tools, and a bit of practice and time, the XB1 will look better and better. That was also true with the PS1, and every system since, including the PS4. The XB1 cannot catch up. Thats not how this works. I wish people could just be happy with what they got, and be glad its getting updates. If you want more games in 1080p, if thats something thats really important, dont argue about how maybe one day in the future your console will be able to achieve that. Instead, just get the more powerful console.

[proudxgamer]

I'm thinking of Ultron...."strings" that's what we're on....every words everry article back and forth....no games but NEWS is winning this console wow....this sucks for us...X1 and PS4 will kill in sales bc 1886 was 6/10 but sold smh....fanboys suck. Give it a rest. Games enforce strong quality games ...

[SpinalRemains138]

I thought consensus around the coding campfire was that the XOne's esRAM, when used, was much more difficult than coding for PS4. That the supplemental RAM within the One requires finer nuances that not all developers know how to utilize.

Can anyone confirm this or not?
Thx

[rainslacker]

That seems to be a pretty common comparison given. Can't speak for the accuracy of it first hand though.

I'm not sure if nuance is the right word to use, I think it's more that MS hasn't made the tools available to make it easy to access ESRAM yet...or have only done so in a limited fashion. X1's version of DX12 is supposed to manage this better based on rumors and speculation, but I don't know if that will make it "easier" to program for in comparison to the PS4's straightforward unified architecture, but will certainly make it "easier" to program for in comparison to the current X1 techniques. In the end though, using ESRAM is still an extra step in the programming process in comparison to a unified architecture like in the PS4.

[TheCommentator]

One of the performance specs cars may list is a power to weight ratio. Power is only one spec on a game system, but how do you measure the weight of an api? XB1 has already had a number of updates to optimize DX11, which it was never designed to run, but how much more weight will be shed when the api switches to DX12? Effeciency is as important as power as 360 proved last gen. Why is it that GDDR5 is labelled as graphics memory, and not used in a CPU ram slot? Look it up and you'll see why MS chose a faster CPU clock and better CPU memory, which are both especially useful when coupled with DX12.

Some of you are comparing launch games to games to games that are being developed now using the new development tools and others feel PS4 will see the same level of improvements as XB1 with updates. These ideas are both ridiculous. For one, launch titles were programmed using DX9. For the other, PS4 launched with an api it was designed to use; one that already optimizes power in a similar way to that of DX12. PS4 will optimize further but not nearly as much as MS has opportunity to because XB1 launched prematurely.

[rainslacker]

X1 was launched with DX11.X(a subset of 11.2). Not even the full 11.2, just it's derivative for the console.

the 360 used DX9, but had some updates which allowed for some features of later versions of DX to be implemented.

Sony has a whole team devoted to making improvements to it's API called ICE team. It's entire purpose is to make tools to make their platform better. We saw these improvements with the PS3, and to think we wouldn't see the same kind of improvement in the PS4 is just blind MS fanboyism.

How do you measure the weight of an API? It's easy. You look at performance data to see how much of a process it can allow a specific amount of hardware to do. Here's a fact, if DX12 worked on the PS4, it would run faster that it would run on the Xbox One. OpenGL isn't behind the times, that's a fallacy that just needs to end. OGL updates much faster than DX ever has, and while it's not perfect, it is much more flexible.

As to all your "reasons" about memory, I'll dismiss them because you don't understand the differences between them, and because of that you obviously have no clue what DX12 will do for X1's memory architecture. I've given up trying to explain what happens there because despite it being what I do for a living, some people just want to believe what Mr. X wants them to believe.

As far as comparisons, I compare games at launch and recently released on the PS4 to...well I'm not sure what, because we haven't really seen much from MS. All I really hear about is DX12, and I hear more hype from fan boys about it than I hear from MS itself. After all the let downs so far this gen, a little reservation on expectations may be in order.

If you want to let the games do the talking then so be it. I welcome that, but you would still not come out ahead in the argument due to the PS4 showing more power in it's launch titles compared to the games that MS has in development today.

[TheCommentator]

I'm not a fanboy, I like new technology. I think Mr. X is full of himself too.

While I do appreciate a good debate, your anti MS rhetoric is pervasive and ignores the reasons I gave as to why games looked so bad on XB1. I didn't say PS4 wouldn't improve as you made it sound. Furthermore, I never said DX12 would improve XB1's DDR3. Then you want to preach about comparing games made with an api XB1 was never designed to run. Finally, praising the PS4's ability to get better while bashing me for saying XB1 will improve more when it gets the api it was made for? Should I call you Mr. P? You're as preachy as he is.

Look, I've read numerous articles about how many launch titles and multiplatform titles used DX9. DX11, although optimized since launch, still only allows for one core to communicate with the GPU. On the PS4 side, my understanding is that their api already allows all cores to talk to th GPU and that GDDR5 has latency issues, suffering from some data loss when processing CPU data. If it's not an issue, why is this faster memory not used in a computer's CPU ram slots? Why is it called "G" DDR5? All of this serves to prove my point. XB1 can improve MORE than PS4 because it launched early. I never said it would outperform PS4 which seems to be what you think I said by how angry you sound.

Here's a fact: DX12 can't run on PS4 so it doesn't matter "how it would run" on it, but since you brought it up, it would run better on the console made to run it.

Here's another fact: DX12 not only unlocks true multithreading for the CPU, but boosts eSRAM performance by 15%. Information is coming out, and it shows that DX12 will make the system more capable in addition to just new programming language.

Then there's the unknown variables: We know MS made the system specifically to run full DX12. There are also slides straight from MS presentations which clearly show a direct link between CPU/GPU and a split GPU architecture. Neither part of the system has been talked about. Not even anandtech or extremetech have speculated as to their function, but you obviously know everything about XB1's architecture already, right? To speculate, it stands to reason that their inclusion has some purpose yet to be unlocked. If this is not the case, why would these unique features be in the console but left a secret?

[Ryan741]

Ps4 does seem more difficult to make games for, look at their recent 1st party games, Drive Club and The Order, both massive disappointments and Drive Club was delayed a year. Uncharted has also been delayed. If it was so easy to develop for why can't they hit a release window? Definitely food for thought.

[rainslacker]

Hmmm...The order had no technical problems that would come down to programming, just design decisions which it seems many people didn't enjoy. The game was flawless in actual execution though, and looked amazing graphically, so how is it an indication that the PS4 is harder to program for?

Drive Club worked as well. the only thing that didn't work was the server code, which is handled on the server. Other than that, it was also pretty flawless in execution of actual non-online game mechanics.

But lets look at it from your perspective. Lets look at MCC which took how long to get working? Wasn't it just a couple of weeks ago they released a patch to make everything work right?

As far as the delays? I dunno. DC was probably not ready to release in time for launch. It's a highly detailed racer, and it took months to design the cars. UC4? Can't say, but since ND is willing to delay a game to make it the best it can be, I'd say it comes down to that since ND is made up of the people who actually design the PS4's API's so I doubt programming is their problem. Food for thought.

[VP37]

"Seems more powerful" lol...exactly...nailed it :) Ain't seen a game yet that's 40-50% better on PS4. Ps4 still doesn't have an exclusive title that runs at native 1080p at a locked 60fps, XB1 had it at launch with Forza-5.

Oh, and what has been the trend with 3rd party games lately? Better frame-rate and better textures on XB1, wow, go figure that, oh that's right, you can't figure out why, so you keep talking about generic specs and screaming 50% more powah!

Here's a fact for you; Nobody but MS & AMD actually knows what GPU is in the XB1. People claim to know, but they don't, it's custom made, they're guessing.

Anyway, keep scratching your heads. Better get some special medicated shampoo, cause the head scratching is only gonna get worse.

[rainslacker]

Could you elaborate on that trend of better frame rate and textures on XB1 for 3rd party games? I must have missed it while AC:U was the only 3rd party game which performed better on X1. Didn't realize one game made a trend. Consider your answer carefully, because I can make lists as well.

Also, yeah, they know what GPU is in the X1, they just don't know what modifications were made. Here's a fact for you though. GPU's don't change, only how they may be accessed and how their memory channels may be set up, and maybe their clock speed. The GPU in the X1 is the exact same one in a standard PC with the same core, otherwise it wouldn't actually be the same GPU. The only difference I can say for sure is that it has it's own ESRAM cache, and has DMA access to slower memory than you'd find in the same GPU in a common PC.

[xxmagicmanx]

This is not just put powerful parts together, you need to know how and the Xbox 360 shows MS know how to do that I will not be surprised if the X1 will have better performance and better looking games after Dev start using from the scratch directx12, implement tiled resources and the cloud on the X1.

[Psygnosis333]

Its time for you to wakeup.

[Sensiblesteve]

No one has a clue what they are talking about

[ManiacMansion]

PS4 is more powerful in raw power

PS4 is also more powerful in terms of reviews and blockbusters /s

[andrarfc]

Absolute rubbish, it has tons of great exclusive games "NOT"

[wonderfulmonkeyman]

All this arguing over the potential of the two machines...

Instead of arguing over this, why are we not joining together to push developers to actually TAKE PROPER ADVANTAGE of all that power?

I mean, seriously, how many games recently haven't even lived up to their own potential, because devs focus too much on resolution and commercial over-hyping, and not enough on game-play and extra content that encourages higher replay value?

[WizzroSupreme]

Why do I have the feeling that if anyone really did make a lengthy, technical report on the two consoles' true power, no one would listen anyway?

[rainslacker]

Somebody would listen. They just wouldn't cite it as factual if it doesn't meet their pre-determined opinion on the matter. And that's the key word here, opinion...not fact. Facts say that the PS4 is more powerful. Countless articles with no reason to be bias say so. Developers say so. People with technical knowledge say so. Actual technical specs as released by the companies say so. Opinion of some is that the X1 will have games that seem more powerful because of....well whatever the sauce dujour happens to be.

In the end, the games do the talking. For the entire generation we'll either see games on either console one upping each other every 6 months or so, or one will take a runaway lead and prove itself time and again, or they'll both be pretty even. At the end of the gen, each side will claim it had the best looking and most awesome games, then we'll start all over with a new generation.

[ScaryMonkey]

Oh no this will upset some xbox fan kiddies for sure.

[Wickerman1972]

Seems more powerful? Well yeah, 6 more GPU compute units will do that.

[hkgamer]

so basically some devs find it easier to program on ps4 and some prefer xbone.

im guessing xbone sdk and directX makes it slightly easier for some devs. been a few articles about some multiplat games are missing AF on the ps4 version.

anyway, whichever sdk that will optimise as close to baremetal as possible will be the easier to develop for.

[Locknuts]

No surprises there. Microsoft are always going to be ahead on the software side. So much so that they can give devs inferior hardware and get similar results a lot of the time. Pretty impressive really.