Will Xbox One See A Boost From DirectX 12?

How much of a boost will Xbox One receive from DirectX 12? Some claim that Phil Spencer said XBO will not benefit from DX12. But is that statement true?

[lifeisgamesok]

Actually Phil has said the Xbox One will benefit from directx 12 people are flipping Phil's words into saying it won't help

No API before has allowed multiple cores to be used by the gpu at one time

[Hellsvacancy]

Oh dear, within the very first minute of the video it shows a Tweet from Phil Spencer that states

"It will help developers on XBOX One, It's not going to be a massive change but it will unlock more capabilities for devs"

So actually, Phil says aot of things

[XBLSkull]

Anyone who thinks DX12 won't provide any benefits to the X1 is incompetent.

[Infamous298]

@XBLSkull It will provide benefits though not as the legendary benefit that
some fanboys here believe.

[Double Toasted]

What legendary ones are you talking about? Do you know something the rest of us don't?

[DragonKnight]

*sigh* Look, this has been said MANY times before. DX12 will help the Xbox One do what it does SLIGHTLY more efficiently. Phil said himself there will not be some significant benefit, just some small efficiencies being improved, but it can't unlock some magical hidden power hidden within the Xbox One hardware like Guru did for Gohan in Dragonball Z.

You will never see anyone but Xbox fanboys saying that DX12 is going to make the Xbox One more powerful than the PS4, even Microsoft won't say that.

[UltraNova]

@Dragonknight

Not that Goku needed it but imagine if Guru unlocked his laden abilities!! He would easily max SSJ1 destroying Frieza within minutes. But you know Toriyama is the MAN so I wont complain ;-)

OT: Am I the only one who actually wants DX12 to help the xb1 achieve better results? I mean it would obviously help the ps4 as well since the devs will have to raise the bar on both to keep parity.

Plus this DX12-xb1 bashing is getting old, not as old as the Order 1886's bashing, we have ways to go to reach that level of unsupported bashing.

[freshslicepizza]

basically we have xbox fanboys who think it's going to shake the earth and then we have the complete opposite attitude from sony fanboys who say it's going to do very little if anything because they are always waiting on the sidelines ready to comment about anything to do with the xbox platform while acting like they don't care about it.

that's why the truth is always somewhere down the middle when viewing comments from either side. what i find most interesting are those who seem to be opposed to the system getting better tools.

[christocolus]

@lifes

The title screams clickbait.There's no need trying to argue with anyone anymore.most of those downplaying this have an agenda,most of them dont even own or plan to buy an xbox one, anything remotely positive relating to MS, Xbox,dx12 or MS cloud compute is quickly downplayed. Everyone knows DXx12 will help Xbox one.Phil, Mike Ybara and even Aaron Greenberg have all confirmed this..the metro redux devs ,brad wardel and a few other have hinted at this in various articles and interviews too yet people keep talking crap. Fable legends looks awesome (going by the latest trailer). its naive to think DX12 wont help the console. all windows 10 devices will get performance boosts(big or small) even mobiles will benefit from it too.

Phil said we will know more at the build conference. lets all see what happens.

[Foehammer]

Well said TheRedDragon

Great to see all the tweets posted in their entirety and in context.

Spells out EXACTLY what's been said

"Full DX12 is coming to X1"

DX12 will effect X1 game development, unlocking more features and making it easier to reach more of the hardwares potential.

A great video, leaving all the, never to be realized, theoretical figures behind, and laying down the truth.

[gfk342]

We are listening to a guy that less than a year ago said that DX12 will double (100% more) the power of the X1!

http://n4g.com/news/1487593...

We all know now that DX12 will provide - IN THE MOST OPTIMISTIC SCENARIO - a maximum of 50% gain in performance for PC GAMING. So X1 will gain much less than 50%.

People, TheRedDragon is the biggest Xbot troll.

[jb227]

Seems to me that DX12 & the Azure Cloud is being downplayed because it has yet to be proven. Sure there are fanboys who don't want to hear anything positive about their competition, but it's generalizing to say that's all there is. I'm personally skeptical about anything a company says until it has been proven…show us, don't tell us. DX12 will definitely help the Xbox One, but to expect some mind-blowing difference is setting yourself up for disappointment. Also, we see these kinds of incremental performance increase anyway over time as devs get used to their hardware, so will the boost from DX12 be discernible compared to the jumps that will have been made w/o it? I think many people responding negatively about these things are doing so in response to people who are claiming that these factors will be some kind of special sauce that completely changes the game overnight. I'd expect we will see some fps boosts & maybe more robust offerings on releases due to better time management.

[gfk342]

DX12 may increase the performance of X1 CPU, BUT will not increase its power.

However, even if DX12 achieves the CPU theoretical power, the CPU is so weak that it's irrelevant.

Please look at these numbers:

CPU:
- PS4 102.4 GFLOPS
- X1 112 GFLOPS

GPU:
- PS4 1.84 TFLOPS (which means 1,840 GFLOPS)
- X1 1.31 TFLOPS (which means (1,310 GFLOPS)

The above numbers are theoretical numbers, meaning the maximum value that each console could reach.

Having said that, DX12 WILL NOT increase the theoretical power of X1, but will ONLY help X1 to get close to this theoretical power.

In conclusion, even if X1 achieves (with the help of DX12) its maximum CPU theoretical power, it is negligible compared with the GPU power.

This is the reason why the future of the console games is GPGPU programming; having in mind their power compared with the CPU.

Both consoles are built for GPGPU, namely the CPU task to be taken by the GPU.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

[Bigpappy]

People keep taking about DX12 and power. I has absolutely nothing to do with power. Why a you guys posting all this crap about TFLOPS and PS4 power?

This is about using more core more effectively and efficiently. So its more about new tech ability and what developers can now achieve even on cell phone. Not about power at all.

[gfk342]

@ Bigpappy

Well, when all what we hear is that X1 will have a boost in performance, we have to talk of power because performance is in a direct relationship with the power of the X1.

So, the CPU theoretical power gives us the limit of what X1 can achieve.

The theoretical power of 112 GFLOPS of X1's CPU is computed using ALL the eight cores of the console!

In conclusion, DX12 is just a software that helps X1 to achieve its MAXIMUMUM CPU POWER OF 112 GFLOPS (which practically irrelevant as it is very low power compared with the GPU).

[Lenrulesdaworld]

the point is to be able to combine that with cloud compute, once you offset resource it leaves more on the hardware itself to use toward graphics. With more resources on graphics, physics on cloud and cpu running across all cores, the game theoretically should be amazing.

But as of now for all the difference in hardware the game differences have been minor and that's with xbox one not having up to date sdk's at release. Which it seems is the main reason games performed not as well as the ps4 but compare then to the end of last fall and winter.

Big difference from resolution to frames and in sum instances holding better frames than ps4, even if small says a lot. But again i'm not saying it's more powerful, just the advantage isn't that big, even though on paper it says it is.

[Double Toasted]

First you say,

"DX12 may increase the performance of X1 CPU, BUT will not increase its power"

then you say

"Well, when all that we hear is that X1 will have a boost in performance, we have to talk of power because performance is in a direct relationship with the power of the X1."

Which means you obviously don't know what you're talking about. Just stop, its the blind leading the blind.

[joeorc]

While I get what you are pointing out, what I think many are really saying or implying and this depends on the side of the wall you are on its Pretty much is about DirectX vs OpenGL kinda point. And the fact is both Api's have been updated for years and both work fantastic for the platforms.

Many on the gamer boards want to frame the Argument in a certain way in order to claim an advantage, the point is both Api's will be further advanced and tweaked.

There is many on this forum i see that want to bolster a platforms perception as to be "parity' WITH ANOTHER PLATFORM, while trying to also claim that such power scale of the other platform is no way near as large as its made out to be by another such group, and are using these posted things to try to drive home that point.

I mean this is of course only a cple of lead programmer's saying this and its of course their opinion on the matter, but their experience with directX is noted, so its not like they have not been using such APi's before.

"
Low-level access to the GPU really makes you understand why using DirectX is slow and why it is really just in your way.

Being able to unmap/remap memory pages from its virtual address space while maintaining its contents is absolutely amazingly useful."

Further going into detail:

"I was in that room : ) That session was pure marketing hyperbole. Later DX12 sessions at GDC were more realistic/interesting IMHO."

http://gearnuke.com/naughty...

The thing is you have to take into account is that this is what Api "Microsoft" is pushing!

Remember the Api Sony and say Nintendo or other firms may be using are or may not be DirectX

Example

Naughty Dog Programmers Talk About DirectX API And Optimization For PS4

Naughty Dog have proved their talent in the gaming industry with the work they have done. Their game engines are usually state-of-the-art and most of their games are usually “coded to the metal”. Recently, a couple of Naughty Dog developers had something new to share regarding optimization techniques on the PS4 and DirectX API.

Christian Gyrling, who is the lead programmer at Naughty Dog, talked about optimizing for PS4 API and how low level access to the hardware is better.

Low-level access to the GPU really makes you understand why using DirectX is slow and why it is really just in your way.

Being able to unmap/remap memory pages from its virtual address space while maintaining its contents is absolutely amazingly useful.

Cort Stratton, Sony’s ICE Team member and programmer at Naughty Dog, was also asked to comment on the recent DirectX 12

I was in that room : ) That session was pure marketing hyperbole. Later DX12 sessions at GDC were more realistic/interesting IMHO.

while:

Microsoft is trying their best to push DirectX 12 as increasing the performance for software development on the Xbox One. According to Slightly Mad Studios’ Ian Bell, who are currently developing Project CARS for Xbox One and PC, the move to DirectX 12 can result in a possible 30% performance boost under certain circumstances.

The point being is we have quite a long way to go before this generation ends and we are really just getting started.

[Double Toasted]

Naughty Dog doesn't make games using DX12 so anything they say is null and void. The only thing they'll be able to use, if anything, is bits and pieces of it that are freebies MS throw to the opengl community and that's if it happens.

[gamertk421]

Power does not equal performance. In cars, power without handling is irrelevant. The world's strongest man probably is not the best at watchmaking. The most powerful pelvis doesn't ensure great sex. Think before you type...

[JasonKCK]

It's amazing to me how people post lies and make believe stats and try and pass it off as fact. It's FOX news tactics.

[Raiden]

i'm going to get flamed for saying this.

1. Naughty Dog are talented programmers yes but how much optimization do they do for each game, the long a game takes to be release once mention the more time can be spent optimizing the kit. Plus point that SONY has is that they have alot of in house/first party departments who will push the hardware further, MS may have some of the best coders in the world, but not all of them are coding for the games environment that is down to the studios like 343 and Turn10.

@GFK and bigpappy

What is power, if you have a device that uses 100% that means it maxed out. But what happens when you introduce something that allows the device to perform at the same level but at 50% of what it was using, DX12 will not change GPU but it will effect the CPU. Percentage wise the less power used to produce something that was already done at 100% the better it is in the long run, who really knows the true power of both consoles, I for one will not look at the power but instead at what is produced, show me proof. don't tell about it, I was to see it, not from in house but from 3rd parties.

[St0rmbr1nger1111]

Translation:

Phil says: It will provide a benefit, then tempers expectations by saying the benefits won't be massive.

Fan boys: Want the benefits to be massive (or none at all depending on your bias), so they try to insert meaning in what Phil says. This is the ugly side of confirmation bias, and the hallmark of a true fan boy.

[MasterCornholio]

Thats pretty much what's going on. The only one who is claiming that the Xbox 1s power will be increased by a ton due to direct x 12 or those claiming that its a game changer is Mr. X and his followers.

We all know that the Xbox One will benefit from Direct X just like the PS4 benefits from updates to its API. What's true about both is that the updates can't increase the maximum output of the system it can only aid it by making said system more efficient.

[AngelicIceDiamond]

So allot people are still goin by what Phil said 3 months ago.

Its obvious Phil and his team are still working on DX12 unlocks on X1. Things change and progress happens.

So people can't automatically revert to Phils statement like what he says is permanent and any statement made by an MS exec after that is irrelevant, because its not.

So look at this: http://www.gamepur.com/news...

But devs HAVE to make use of it. It isn't automatically processed by devs they have to code for it. Making DX12 from what it sounds like so far will benefit mainly 1st party.

Though DX12 is mainly PC thing X1 still very much has DX12 capabilities. How much exactly still remains to be seen.

Point is, is it so hard to understand that Dx12 is still a work in progress for X1?

[rainslacker]

It will benefit multiplats as well. Eventually all devs will have to convert their code to DX12 if they are using OpenGL/PSSL, or vice versa. It's just the way it is in console development. It's not really as big a deal as it would seem, as they have mostly the same functionality, and many times, the engine will take care of it for the dev.

On the console side of things, they already code in a similar fashion to the way that both Mantle and DX12 will require the dev to do, so it becomes even less of an issue. The biggest benefit to the dev is that converting code from console to PC will now be much quicker, as the routines will likely be the same between the PC and the console.

The only real difference between console and PC coding in this regard is that on PC, devs will code their low level code to DX12/Mantle, whereas on console, they will code using the low level API's which may be much closer to the metal because it doesn't have to account for differences in hardware.

In the X1, the biggest benefit that DX12 will bring is from it's memory handling and processing pipeline utilization, which honestly should have been there from day one on the X1, and is actually already available should the developer decide to implement it themselves.

Without getting too technical, I'll just say that's a good thing, and X1 users should be happy about it, and because of that, they don't need to speculate on how much it will improve the games. The improved pipeline management is pretty significant, but it doesn't add up to a major boost in performance. 50% under ideal conditions, but probably not constant or sustained 50% increase.

[voodoogts]

Yes it will.

Does PS4 support DNLA yet?

[MasterCornholio]

No but the PS4 managed to receive an update that enabled shareplay which is more important for gaming than DLNA.

What was your point?

[THC CELL]

Yes ps4 is a gaming machine my smart tv dose all my movie streaming what saves me energy bills and no blocks from chavina

[jrshankill]

That shareplay thing that developers are hesitant to support?

I lol'd at the freeloading COD crybabies on release day.

[MasterCornholio]

@JR

"That shareplay thing that developers are hesitant to support?"

You mean that only a few developers won't support.

95% of games support shareplay.

#dealwithit

[Majin-vegeta]

No one is denying DX12 wont help the X1.What people are denying is that some people think that DX 12 will automatically make the X1 stronger than the PS4.Which is impossible due to the hardware.

[marlinfan10]

The vast majority of people just say it'll help. I've hardly seen anyone say it'll be more powerful than the ps4. Please show me some articles or comment sections where there's more than maybe one or two people saying that.

I've seen a lot more sony fans saying it won't do anything than I have xbox fans saying it'll be more powerful than ps4

Or they just troll and post comments like the one right below me

Look at this article for instance, 16 comments so far, not a single person saying it'll be more powerful than ps4, yet 4 comments trolling/downplaying. This is how it is in nearly every dx12 article

[ainTgoTTime2bleed]

You sir are wrong!, Phil is dah Messiahsz and he said that dah cloudssz, DX12SSZ and dah Holololennsz will melt the PS4 and I will followsz Phil to the end of timessz...

[snoopgg]

Yap Yap Yap, now go bleed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dazzrazz]

Bla bla bla with dx12 it will do power of the cloud and be like 300 xboxes .....

[Xavior_Reigns]

It likely will but it won't be anywhere as grand as some people are imagining. DX12 will definitely be showing off on PCs though. If I'm wrong though, cool (MS prove again they're wizards) but man will it be an annoying couple of days here with trolls bragging and bashing. If only MS wouldn't have gone the anti-consumer route at first and actually made a powerful $500 console without focusing on Kinect. Hololens looks much better.

[lemoncake]

Efficiency improvement is what keeps consoles relevant even after their tech has become less powerful than a toaster. Dx12 will boost the Xone efficiency just like how whatever sonys team is up to is going to boosts its efficiency. Launch titles always look like crap compared to end gen games like TLOU and GTA5, mass effect 1 looks like a turd compared to the the third one. Anyone who says this won't boost performance are neglecting decades of examples of where efficiency is shown to boost performance.

[raymantalk1]

dx12 will help game development but not increase hardware power.

[mhunterjr]

I'm not sure why people keep devolving the discussion into a search for quantifiable gains.

The best thing about having dx12 on xb1 is that developers will actually use it. There are already dx12-like features available in the current xdk, but due to time constraints, 3rd party developers haven't bothered with using them. Now, if they are porting from the PC to XBox, they're more likely to be developing close the the xbox's metal.

When developers lives are easier, the end product is better.

[THC CELL]

Christian Gyrling @cgyrling

Low-level access to the GPU really makes you understand why using DirectX is slow and why it is really just in your way. #ps4 #performance

[marlinfan10]

Yeah I'm sure a ps4 dev has had loads of hands on time with dx12

/s

[rainslacker]

DX12 offers a way to code which is exactly like how devs have been coding on consoles since the first console was made. This is the exact reason why DX12 won't show the same significant leap in improvement as PC's will, which has been said over and over again since DX12 became the next big thing to call the X1's savior.

DX12 is just a implementation, not a programming principal. I can guarantee you that console engineers worth their salt understand how DX12 works better than a PC only dev, and even a PC dev worth their salt understands this stuff just fine.

Unless you are under the impression that DX12's low level access is something completely new.

By your reasoning, that means that no dev out there really understands DX12, because no one has worked on it before, thus we should just ignore all developer comments on it.

Also by your reasoning, that means you have no reason to be speaking on the merits of DX12, since to my knowledge you have absolutely no experience with DX12 programming either.

[hello12]

You'll have been people downplaying it but Phil and other people have already said its coming for x box 1 and it will benefit the console (end of story on that!)

The performance boost (gain) i agree is hard to know at this time, but realistically the 8 core CPU that the x box 1 has performs exactly like any PC (core) CPU. The gains and losses are the same due to the directx11 graphic driver been used to run high end games.

In terms of graphics i don't see a massive change going from directx11 to directx12 at this time and to be honest i believe this is what Phil was referring to in his twitter comments. The leap in visual quality is never huge you'll see a change alright but its not going to be substantial. Of course there is brand new features coming with directx12 so its hard to know how much it will improve the graphics? Phil can't know either or be fully sure (maybe he has changed his mind after seeing more dx12 demos? There isn't a game out yet entirely build with directx12 code. Anyway i don't expect avatar graphics for me that's unrealistic considering the hardware the x box 1 has.

The benefit for devs if better frames is a consequence of using directx12

Well they don't have to worry so much about resolution. If you can take care of performance- theresolution issues become far less of an issue. Currently devs have to sacrifice frame rate for resolution or vice versa more so on x box 1 console.

Finally
Phil tweets are curious though and hopefully we can get clarification soon. He seems to be saying x box 1 will be getting full directx12? Well that that literally means then the x box 1 is getting features that know graphic card to date has and that can only mean one thing the GPU in the x box 1 is the first directx12 card ever made (the card would still have limitations what it could do and not do though)

Anyway for x box fans exciting times least we getting more information and soon enough we will know more about it and what the realistic benefits are for x box 1.

Edit just to add even if turns out to be directx12 card and there is nothing yet confirming that? The GPU is still going to be a low/end medium range card. PC high end cards will perform better with directx12 they have features the x box 1 GPU simply will never have even if using full directx12.

[RiseofScorpio]

Its hopeless they'll just quote an old ass tweet from Phil Spencer to downplay any DX12 Xbox one articles.

[bleedsoe9mm]

i'm no expert but it seems to me
xb1 was built to take full advantage of DX12 features = great for xb1 games .
pc and xb1 being brought closer together = easier for devs to port to xb1 .

[rainslacker]

DX12 has two big features which are pretty significant.

One is the low level access to hardware, which allows the code to be more optimized, thus run quicker. This is great stuff for PC, but will have a minimal effect on consoles, since this is already how it's done on consoles.

The second is new pipeline management for the CPU/Memory/GPU which offers greater access to more channels for data to move through, and in some cases, more efficient routines to process that data.

This second part is where it will help the X1, as MS current implementation isn't doing this very well, or at least not as well as it should. The reasons for this are another debate, and would be mostly speculation at this point.

In a lot of this, I see people focusing on the wrong thing to analyze what will improve what on the X1, but when it comes down to it, people understand, at least on a base level, faster GPU performance. But from what I see they don't understand why the performance will be better. Understanding threading and pipeline management and memory management is a rather complex and specialized subject, so it's hard to look like you understand it unless you actually do. I actually do that for a living now, and I have to say it's been a crash course for me, but highly interesting, and it's quite amazing what can be done when you bypass software or an OS to make your program run through low level code.:)

[greenlantern2814]

Phil has basically been saying the same thing about dx12 for awhile now. And that is yes the XB1 will benefit from dx12 but not as much as some people think. And the argument is dumb because in time we will all be able to see for ourselves.
Some people on here think it is going to make XB1 way better, some think it won't help at all. The truth is probably in the middle of these statements.
Just like some people think Sony isn't working on ways to improve the PS4 but that's not true either, of course they are.

[Dannylew]

definitely "no".

[Killzoner99]

Nope. They can't just flip a switch and then the Xbone is magically more powerful than the PS4. Wishful thinking really.

[dreadz74]

ummmm win10 is the switch dx12 will unlock more capabilities on XB1 that PS4 does not have like cloud compute and bundles not to mention utilizing all cores instead of one doing all the heavy lifting..So you guys think win10 and dx12 is just a pretty name and no changes will come seriously?hey we are gunna put Dx12 and windows 10 on XB1 just for it to do absolutely nothing cmo you seriously believe that?How much impact we don't know yet but to say none is being very disingenuous...It's ok this will all be put to rest @ GDC where we will see DX12 in action and Phill said XB1 dx12 info will be given @ gdc 5 weeks away people

[SCW1982]

Yes it will see a boost. No it will not be a huge change.

[S2Killinit]

I dont think anybody is saying DX12 wont do anything for xbone. The issue here is that when Microsoft announced the DX12, they touted it as a game changer in relation with xbox one. That, is why people are confused. This was, of course, done deliberately. Otherwise we wouldnt be sitting here after all this time discussing just another update (which is in reality what DX12 really is). So the video's premise is a bit off. The real question is, why did MS show off the DX12 out of context, and made it seem like it was going to blow everyones socks off on the xbox, when really the majority of the benefits were on PC.

[dreadz74]

well we all will see what it brings in 5 weeks with GDC.Games that are built from the ground up using dx12 will look better that what we are seeing today..We have only seen one DX12 game to date which is fable legends it looks like a pixar movie!!!Ms said over 100 devs have dx12 now and are programing for it so wait till you see dx12 games b4 u wash it off as hog wash..

[stiggs]

"I dont think anybody is saying DX12 wont do anything for xbone."

You have to be joking. There are plenty of people saying that very thing in this comment section.

[S2Killinit]

@dreadz74
I'm not washing it off as if its no good, I'm saying that DX12 is an update like many others that have come before it, and will come after it. But to say that we should wait until GDC and then attribute the graphical goodness to DX12 is also very subjective. I'm sure DX12 or not, the next gameshow will have better graphics than the last, but that's just how it is. We can't attribute it solely on the update.

@stiggs
I think the people who are saying "it won't do anything" are doing so incorrectly to compensate for people who are acting like DX12 is anything but an update, and that it will be something we have never seen before. So you have to take things in context not in the abstract.

[rainslacker]

I find it rather disturbing that I see more hype for a API update than I do for the games on the system.

I really never saw this kind of thing before this gen started. API updates were mostly back end stuff that may get talked about in relation to a game, like people first heard of Sony's ICE team when UC2 was shown off. 99% of gamers didn't know what they did, or what they were talking about, but damn, did they do it well.

Right now what I see is people praising an API with no real world application or demo being shown as to what the end user can actually expect(and yes I know demo's exist, but have you seen a single X1 owner post a link to one? And has anyone seen a X1 DX12 demo yet?).

Don't get me wrong, I think DX12 is a remarkable achievement, and very long overdue, but for a console who really cares? Show the games, let them speak for the technology.

[parentsbasement]

How is something getting better (no matter how small the improvement) a bad or trollable (not a word ) thing ?......

[mochachino]

It's not going to improve the resolution problem but games that drop down to 20something frames in places will drop down a few frames less, or maintain 30FPS more.

So yeah, an improvement but no major improvement in graphics.

[Moldiver]

Dx12 wont be a MASSIVE improvement. But it will have more gains than the few FPS, you are talking. A few FPS is not an improvement , in any devs mind..much less a gamers. So you are misinformed if you think that is all it will bring. I suggest you do some research on tiled resources. do you know how many gigs of texture data they can store in that tiny bit of ESRAM, in the XB1? go look it up. And if crackdown delivers on its promise, then future XB1 games will have some VERY impressive, truly next gen assets going on its games. You dont do all this for a few extra frames.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

http://www.onlysp.com/cloud...

5 weeks till GDC.

[Kavorklestein]

Well said. +1 bubbz
I agree with you that there's no way that they would still be trying to reach these goals if they didn't see real potential.
Otherwise, what's the point in putting forth all this effort?
Nobody works for free, and technology always has been and always will be expensive... so What's the point in spending all this money if it's not a realistic option?

If some people around here actually think the entire corporation is going to just lie about what they're working on, then they have another thing coming. (Hopefully an education.)
But seriously, I don't see why Phil- or Microsoft or anyone on the Xbox team would be trying to lie at this point. Even when MS was straightforward and honest about their ideas with DRM, there were people making up stuff about what their DRM policies were going to be like and it hurt MS's image... Some of these idiots who use Steam (Pc Master Race DRM) were attacking even though nobody really truly knew anything about anything...

So after being in a tough situation just because of MS haters concocting baseless speculations and Steam users having hypocritical double standards- why would Microsoft be lying now?

There is no way that Phil would let all of his reputation dangle from a thread by lying, let alone the reputation of the Xbox brand he has known and loved for years.

The fact that hololens came out of nowhere completely un-announced, proves MS has tricks up their sleeves and that they are serious about everything they are working on.

I personally think that MS might have even MORE in store for us than previously expected. Otherwise, why not save hololens for a later reveal?

[thexmanone]

One thing for sure is any games made for DX12 will look a lot better then anything the PS4 came ever put out. Even if it is being this so called less powerful console.

[joeorc]

@Double Toasted + 12m ago
Naughty Dog doesn't make games using DX12 so anything they say is null and void. The only thing they'll be able to use, if anything, is bits and pieces of it that are freebies MS throw to the opengl community and that's if it happens.

And How does that exclude, their experience with such Api's?
It does'nt..thats because , they can learn and fool around with the APi, it does not mean they do not have anyway to know how good it would be outright, because they do not make games with a certain Api!

And again this was exactly the point i was making...

Example:
"The only thing they'll be able to use, if anything, is bits and pieces of it that are freebies MS throw to the opengl community and that's if it happens."

Its This Arrogance about DirectX being that many such as yourself act as if only because of Microsoft's pity and throws other options for an Api and because of Microsoft's good graces that it throws what ever scraps at Open GL...

Is it any wonder why many are gathering flack over the Hype of DirectX 12 vs other APi's?

[joeorc]

http://n4g.com/news/1660139...

@Bigpappy

": if Sony has a solution that no one knew about. If they do I will be extremely impressed. Because its been said that OpenGL, can not be modified to match this. I would need to be completely recoded."

Open GL cannot do anything to match it? really?

Has to be recoded?

See this is exactly why, the "parity" and "it will match" or the "gap is not that large" talk is getting so much freaking Flack.

and People talk about Playstation Fans are the worst? Really?

[rainslacker]

I learned OpenGL low level coding in my studies and personal efforts since I built my programs for that. Recently I've been getting to know DX12, and I can say that they are so much alike it's not even funny. DX12 is a nice implementation of low level, and it's pretty clean code for a MS product which tend to get bloated at times.

What I find ironic though is that people who say what Double toasted did is that they themselves have no experience with any kind of graphics/programming API, yet will talk about it with authority.

Truth is, in programming, when you understand the basic principals, all you have to learn is the implementation.

Programmers can move from one programming language to the next without much trouble, it's just learning syntax and then maybe a few nuances here or there.

All DX12 would change for ND's ICE team is implementation, not principal, at least on the graphics front. ICE is specifically chosen to be the cream of the crop, it's in the ICE mandate in fact, which is much bigger than ND's PS team. These are the people that helped create these principals that DX12 is finally getting around to using, so to assume they don't understand it is the extremely condescending.

[joeorc]

@rain slacker
you have it down 100%, the key note of DirectX12 was just that to inform the development community's group's to see what changes there were. As you stated the fact is Open GL and DirectX12 are very close aligned, when the fact that both APi's have grown and elvolved so much in what the developer has access to on these advanced chips they are making today, vs what you were limited to only 10 years ago vs what you have today its really fantastic.

I mean Nvidia just showed off a mobile chip that SOC has the performance to attain that of a Total of 1 TFlop! In a freaking Mobile chipset..LMAO thats just too funny and in a amusing and fantastic way, it just shows how far our computing level on SOC's have come in such a very short time, and Graphic GPU's have quite a bit influence along with gaming that has pushed such advancement forward. The fact without GPU's being looked at to do GPGPU and Hybrid Core processing, and applying Grid Computing enviroments on such a SOC and other computing Designs, the development may not have accelerated this fast, and that in my opinion is due to Gaming pushing the development engineers of such chips to look in designing and focus on such strength.

[Pogmathoin]

No, yes, no, no, yes, no,yes,yes, no, yes. Maybe not in that order, but on N4G, its how it will play out.

[MidnightMay0r]

I agree with direct x 12 being a performance boost for the Xbox one. It might not be huge but the boost will hopefully have the system regularly display 1080p 60fps finally on all Games. However anybody who thinks Sony is sitting around not doing anything are dumb. The problem with the xbox one is no matter how many updates it gets the hardware will always be weaker and no amount of updates or "cloud" power will help it pass the ps4 this gen. I own all 3 systems btw.

[MidnightMay0r]

Still great news for xbox one owners the system has gotten 100 times better since launch speaking from a interface/feature standpoint.

[pompous]

Yes it will. We don't know how much because DX12 hasn't been released yet. Phil said it wouldn't be a huge boost meaning we will see a boost just nobody knows how much until it gets released and real world testing is done.

[MidnightMay0r]

Once again the performance boost won't be massive. We already know it won't be big. Its okay for the xbox one to be weaker as long as the exclusives are dope it should be fine. You guys gotta stop reaching for something that's not there. PS4 will always be the most powerful console this gen might as well accept it unless Microsoft does a hardware revision.