DirectX 12 Will Boost Xbox One’s Possibilities, Will Prompt Sony To Boost PS4 – To Leave Dev

"The Ecuador based Freaky Creations are working on To Leave which is about leaving behind our lives, about breaking free from all our prisons and chains, to become that which we've always dreamed to become. The game is currently scheduled to release on the PlayStation 4, PlayStation Vita and PC."

[Hellsvacancy]

Believe it when I see it

[lifeisgamesok]

You will see it this year (confirmed by Microsoft) and even more next year

Directx 12 and by what Nvidia, Intel, and AMD are saying will be one of the biggest tech advances in some time

MS in-house studios are prepping some graphical powerhouses as we speak just imagine what Gears of War 4 and Ryse 2 etc. will look like when Directx 12 is reducing the wait time between the CPU and GPU making graphics faster

The PS4's largest bottleneck is the CPU at around 20-30 gigs a sec but the Xbox One has offloading from the CPU, GPU and Directx 12 frees up even more resources

People didn't believe me when i said the PS4 has limitations on the CPU processing until SuckerPunch revealed it at GDC

Also 4.5 gigs isn't much for a game if the title has to include the audio and motion controls (Things like Delsin's spray painting) out of the game's memory

Xbox One has 9 Co-processors for audio alone

Audio is hog when it comes to taxing the CPU and it's about half as taxing as graphics

[Immorals]

Love all the disagrees you're getting..

Bubble up for a well explained and unbiased explanation

[Whiskeyjacked87]

Ever get tired of being wrong?

[Whitey2k]

Thats where ur wrong if the ps4 cpu is the bottleneck how comes the test proves the cpu on the ps4 is faster then the x1? The audio on the ps4 has its own seperate chip

[GarrusVakarian]

"Also 4.5 gigs isn't much for a game if the title has to include the audio and motion controls (Things like Delsin's spray painting) out of the game's memory "

Huh? Clearly it IS enough for a game.....have you even played Infamous? How can you say 4.5 gigs isn't enough for a game when Infamous is arguably the best looking (and running) next gen game? That makes no sense. You are trying to downplay the PS4 by mentioning it's best looking game.......lol. Next time, use an example that can't be debunked by the subject matters very existence.

On topic: Obviously DX12 will bring improvemnts, otherwise there would be NO point in MS implementing it. But i gotta say, im scratching my head at all the people who are suddenly acting like software is more important than hardware. Granted, the DX12 software will improve how the X1 HARDware acts....but let's not forget that the only way you are going to get *huge* performance gains is by hardware upgrades, ask any PC gamer. There's only so much software can do.

I see a lot of people in these comments that are pinning all their hopes on a software update, while completely forgetting the hardware, the thing that can't be changed, inside their machines. Extremely high hopes for something you know little of is only going to set you up for disappointment.

[hello12]

Sony will have to spend big to duplicate directx12

Directx12 took years to code and RD for. I doubt opengl will have the same features.

[adorie]

Very convincing. But, by how you talk here, you make it like Sony is going to sleep and go with what they got, as is.

That won't be the case. Neither company has the time to expend to be complacent. Sony must fight to stay on top and Microsoft must fight for the top.

[system22]

@WHITEY2K: The ps4 cpu is an 8 core, as is the xbox ones, the ps4 runs at a lower clock speed (1.6 ghz) to the xbox ones 1.75 ghz. not a huge difference but the xbox one is capable of offloading processes from the cpu. This free's up the xbox cpu more with the added bonus of the (slightly) higher clock speed.

DirectX 12 will basically make all of this really efficient which will free up the cpu even more with less instruction. This is why I keep saying that you can't just look at charts, do some linear math and come up with "the ps4 is 50% more powerful". its just simply not true. it is more powerful in regard to ram being a bit faster (ddr3 to ddr5) and it has 2 more CU's but the xbox's CU's even though there are 2 less also run at a higher clock speed - independently. so thats clock speed difference is multiplied by x 6 over ps4 which makes that advantage not quite as big as people seem to think. its been referred to as a "marginal" difference. the biggest thing ps4 has going for it is that huge chunk of ddr5 vs xbox's big chunk of dd3 but with 32 mb of eSRAM kinda squeezed in next to the cpu. its an odd size apparently but is getting dealt with on sdk/tool side.

[ThunderSpark]

Here come the Xbox One fans out of the wood works. You guys went missing when NPD came out and almost had me worried.

I find it ridiculously funny how Lifeisgamesok mentions something that most devs have said the opposite of. 1st party and 3rd party games on the PS4 proves you are wrong and that the bottleneck you speak of has been a non issue thus far. Keep trying tho.

[GameNameFame]

For PC. MS said it was for PC.

Never for X1.

"The PS4's largest bottleneck is the CPU at around 20-30 gigs a sec but the Xbox One has offloading from the CPU, GPU and Directx 12 frees up even more resources "

Wow cant believe desperate fanboys are buying this.

Offloading CPU to GPU? You mean GPGPU?

Freaking Cerny was the one who was pushing for that on PS4.

Stop with this desperate talks man. X1 will improve, but PS4 will improve just as much. So much secret sauces.

I say that because their architecture is same.

Also what do you mean Sony will have to spend alot. All Sony has to do is just port it. Port DX12.

OpenGL will probably port DX12 for PS4 free anyways...

DX12 is not some secret sauce. LOL

[frostypants]

It's not going to make the GPU perform any faster. Sorry. 10 pounds of crap, 5 pound bag and all that. Once again, DX12 is huge for PCs, which tend to have CPUs with far more untapped bandwidth than the One. For the One it will be a marginal gain. No one close to it has explicitly said otherwise...all of the gushing over it has been around PCs.

[madpuppy]

"You will see it this year (confirmed by Microsoft) and even more next year"

That is Microsoft's corporate mantra, it sucks now, but wait a year!

been hearing that for 35 years...

[reko]

@sourgrouch

like you?

[MorePowerOfGreen]

Something tells me they won't believe it when they see it.

@shysun

MSFT said PC gamers and some other folks will be able to download/buy it in 2015. That doesn't mean Some 3rd party and 1st party devs are not using it on XB1 now. DX12 was also announced to release in preview this year(XB1 already has parts of DX12 in it)

I love how people have selective memory/hearing/intelligence when trying to attack or downplay xb1

Always the same PS4 fans reacting to this topic. I'm better some of these people in here are the same person. That Lukas kid has a heart attack over this responding with trolling like flies on poopz

"Believe it when I see it"

*We will care what you think when proven otherwise*

[shysun]

Ms said holiday 2015...were is your info coming from?

[devwan]

@system22 "but the xbox one is capable of offloading processes from the cpu. This free's up the xbox cpu more with the added bonus of the (slightly) higher clock speed. "

What? Offload what to where? It's true to say the Xbox One is CPU-bound and offloading tasks elsewhere if possible (GPGPU?) is healthy, but offer something concrete or we're going to have to imagine something as ethereal as magic clouds...

The ps4 has an ARM processor with it's own 1/4GB of memory dedicated to various non-game tasks. These are things the ps4's CPU doesn't have to be distracted by. You're talking like this isn't possible when it was a design choice from way back into Cerny's plan's inception. ps4 also has AMD TrueAudio technology on board the GPU, so the Xbox One doesn't get a leg up here with SHAPE, either, I'm sorry to say. SHAPE may be advanced audio processing hardware, but a lot of that is in place simply to cater to Kinect, and the less said about Kinect at this point the better, no?

You want to know why DX12 will make an impact on XBO? The main reason is the utterly disastrous implementation of DX11.X that currently cripples the machine (less than it did before and around launch, but it's still quite clearly one of the XBO's biggest internal millstones). Are you aware that the Xbox 360's draw calls were out-performing the Xbox One's around launch time? We're talking about a machine that was stated to be 10x more powerful than it's older brother... and what did they do to remedy this? Put in place a series of back-door side-steps that, gosh, allow for some some much more DX12/Mantle/traditional-consol e-like direct hardware hitting rather than waiting for the number 26 bus with DX11.X. So yes, that approach works, it's better, but it's already in the box to some extent... don't set yourself up for yet more "hrybello" disappoint, even if it is 15 months or more away, it'll still hurt.

You can read a few things here on one website and a few there from another website and put them together to form what you might believe to be an all-encompassing idea of "how things are", but the fact is, if you went into work each day and had to deal with the many foibles of XBO and understood simply how much less hassle it is to achieve things on ps4, and then that it runs better, you'd likely refrain from doing so (in public at least).

@lifeisgamesok I'm not even going to respond to your points, the terminology misused and general grasp of what it is you're patchworking together is, or rather should be, embarrassing... the only guys going to fall for that are those who simply don't have the beginnings of a clue and it's just not fair to mess with them and get their hopes up. smh.

[supercpu]

anyone saying dx12 is not going to do anything for xbone is very insecure or a fan boy , enjoy things like this because it keeps the bar moving .

[OrangePowerz]

The DX12 advantages that nVidia and AMD praise are for PC where games are not optimized and don't utilise multicore CPUs properly. That doesn't apply to consoles where games are optimized for the specific consoles. It will improve some things, but it's not such a huge gain.

As for the audio, the PS4 has also processors for audio.

@supercpu

Ever came to your mind that there might be people who know about tech and don't believe the baseless PR talk from MS?

[AsimLeonheart]

Man, you Xbox fans never give up and continue to pin your hopes on PR talk and unproven concepts. Remember how the power of the cloud was going to make the Xbone 3 times more powerful than the PS4? I am yet to see a game that proves that claim. Similarly, remember the promises of the revolution that will be the Kinect and Kinect 2.0? Remember Milo and Kate the future of gaming that it proposed to us? I am yet to see that too. Remember how Titanfall was going to reinvent the FPS genre, kill COD, sell truckloads of Xbones and smash all sales records? I am yet to see that too. Why dont you guys ever learn and wisen up? How many times do you need to be fooled and disappointed?

[Ju]

@devwan OMG. Bubble up. At least one here with a brain (and knowledge).

[PrimeGrime]

What doesn't make sense about anything you say, if the PS4 CPU was as weak as claim, then why the heck is almost every multiplatform game running better on PS4 and most the time at higher resolutions and frame rates? Not including people have run actual benchmarks proving the PS4's CPU is actually faster. Stress tests do not lie.

Also because SuckerPunch optimized Infamous well, you are calling it a limitation? What the shit? Sorry it wasn't some poorly optimized game that is way larger than it needs to be. Look at all the trouble people are having on the Xbox One when it comes to optimization, huge patches that do nothing, large space taken up by games that clearly show nothing as to why they need that much space in the first place. Just poor optimization all around on the Xbox One. It shows greatly with third party developers as well.

So now not only does just having 1080p/60fps somehow equal a good game /s, but having a game take up more space also means that it automatically makes it a good game now too? Such dumb logic.

It completely invalidates your argument when there is actual constant proof that literally goes against everything you are saying.

One thing I love about Sony's approach now is that they are letting their system speak for itself, when Microsoft has to do all the talking for the Xbox One instead, because nothing the Xbox One has done has proven otherwise.

Hmmm hardware that speaks for itself or a company that speaks for its hardware.. Who to believe...

"confirmed by Microsoft" Oh man, that made me laugh, Microsoft also said the Xbox One could not be changed and DRM was locked in. You remember that? That was a confirmation that obviously was not true. How quickly you all forget. Not like it was the first time with Microsoft lying out their asses but gullible people will be just that I suppose, gullible.

Ugh and people still going on about the audio processors in the Xbox One as if that is some secret sauce still... Did it ever occur to you that maybe Kinect needs that? You have one bubble for a reason and that is most likely because you rarely if ever know what you are actually talking about.

[madpuppy]

As an addendum to my previous statement, this video is a parody of MS well known hollow promises. If only a top exec at MS had this happen to them when they lied Ms would be making the best software in the world...alas they don't and never will.
https://www.youtube.com/wat...

more typical MS garbage failure software.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[Bigpappy]

I am reading a lot of comments where people are saying DX-12 is not for Xbox. That make me LOL. I am not going to get into how much it will improve X1 and if X1 will out perform PS4 (I have no way of knowing the answers). What I will say, is based on the comments I read from ADM, NVidia and some engineers, it will make a huge difference on PC and X1, With significant gains.

[OrangePowerz]

Also when someone says something negative he/she is a Sony fanboy and scared of the power of the X1 and they make baseless claims that the hardware isn't as good. Yet if MS or someone else makes same baseless promises on how the X1 will be much better it is sound and based on hard facts that are completely true. Ever heard of wishful thinking?

Since the reveal of the console it was always "wait until day X or convention Z". What happened to the Dual GPU, hidden extra ESRAM, stacked chip, the NDA ending and people revealing the true power? If they don't show anything at E3 that would support the claim it will be "they couldn't get it ready in time, just wait for the GamesCon".

Also Sony won't just stop development on improving the system.

[fr0sty]

It would be an excellent explanation if it weren't total bullshit made up off the top of their head. Let's see here...

1. DX12 is indeed a large advance, but mostly in the PC sector. For Xbox One the main advantage will be better CPU threading utilization, which PS4 already enjoys.

2. The PS4 and Xbox One CPUs are roughly the same, though XO's CPU is clocked 150mhz faster as its base clock (PS4's can overclock to over 2ghz by using fewer cores, however.). Benchmarks have shown PS4's CPU to actually outperform XO's ( http://www.cinemablend.com/...

3. Both consoles have gimped CPUs. This has been no secret for a long time now.

4. PS4 and XO have roughly the same amount of available RAM, though PS4's has far more bandwidth.

5. PS4 has 4 extra GPU compute units dedicated to GPGPU tasks (everything from audio, to physics, lighting, to whatever else) and 2 additional compute units for graphics, in addition to the 12 Xbox One has. It also has a high bandwidth bus directly connecting CPU to GPU and 6 more accelerated compute engines to process those compute queues than Xbox One has. It also has audio and video co-processors used for compression and decompression of audio and video on the fly. You don't want to get into trying to compare the innards of these 2 systems, PS4 outclasses Xbox One in every way.

6. Audio is getting more complex as time goes on, but it in no way is anywhere near as taxing as physics, lighting, etc... This is why we've had surround sound in our games since the original Xbox days. Some games have more complex audio design than others, but in general most games don't waste a lot of CPU time on audio.

You do a decent job making yourself sound like you know what you're talking about, but most of what you said is just made up.

[heisenberguk]

Man you sound like a Microsoft spokesman!! Although it's clear from your comment history that you're a rabid fanboy!

[Metfanant]

The problem with your argument is that the PS4 and Xbone use the same CPU with a marginal clock speed advantage for the Xbone...the PS4 is actually better suited for offloading of CPU tasks because it was designed with GPGPU in mind...

There is a reason for the 14+4 suggestion...

It leaves 14 CUs for graphics...and 4 CUs for compute (offloading off rom the CPU)...

The problem is that if you dedicate 4 CUs to compute on the Xbone that leaves only 8 for graphics....that's no good...

DX12 is a low level "console like" API just like Mantle...the biggest improvements by far will be seen by PC gamers...both consoles already have VERY low level APIs (coding "to the metal")...the Xbone will see improvements because it's tools are just not as good as the PS4s...and DX12 will help fix that (further evidence that this console was not ready for a 2013 release)

My question for the Xbox fan reading this however will be this: what difference will it make? Since the start of this generation you have been telling everyone that the differences between PS4 and Xbone games is barely noticeable....1080p vs 900p can't be seen...the Xbone games look just as good...

So will you start bragging if all of a sudden Xbone games start hitting 1080p?...will it all of a sudden start to matter?...

[papashango]

4gb's is enough let alone 4.5gb of ram.

There is no bottleneck with RAM on both consoles. The cpu architecture is however one of the biggest factors in how a game runs.

It's the main reason why a 4/8 core AMD processor always gets destroyed by an Intel quad core. Architecture and API is everything. I believe DX12 will bring with it major advances in gaming. Just how much remains to be seen.

[truefan1]

It's amazing how many ps4 fan computer science and computer engineering professionals frequent this site, always being helpful spreading their wisdom. Always so quick to downplay anything significant XB1 related, when in actuality they have no idea about the possibilities or really any idea what they are talking about.

[Geoff900]

@Lukas_Japonicus

THEY had problems with the CPU, with infamous... and yes infamous looks great, however it's in the next 3-5 years when CPU speeds etc become important, when 4.5 gigs isn't that much.

Software is more important than hardware, if you say otherwise then you have never worked on servers/routers etc, hardware hasn't advanced all that much over the last decade, more cores, more memory, and have become faster, but no actual improvements on architecture, no real changes. Still using x86 instruction sets, which a decades old.

Software is important, it's what enables routers/switches to send data to the correct place, it's what enables you to log-in to your user account on N4G, it's got to a stage now whereby software can decide if your data-centers etc run operations correctly/smoothy.

@whathappened

Everytime someone says something different from 'opinion', you call them fanboys, without even countering what he stated in his post.

[Eonjay]

The "possibilities" are hardware bound by definition not software bound. Everything that it will ever be able to do was determined at the moment the specs were finalized. The same goes for the PS4. If the biggest game of the year "Destiny" isnt 1080p on Xbox One, no ones gonna care about possibilities; Only realities.

[johndoe11211]

@Geoff900

And if you ever worked in the graphics and 3d design field you will realize exactly how much nonsense you are talking.

Gaming consoles have absolutely nothing to do with servers, routing or switching. Gaming consoles have to do with graphics.

This is what makes the ps4 a much more effective gaming console. The whole design of the ps4 spells graphical power. Everything, from the gddr5, the unified memory to the gpu just reeks of a focus on graphics which is what a gaming console is supposed to do.

It is blatant due to the design of the xbox that it's focus was on kinect, app switching and multimedia. Software will never be more important than hardware when it comes to graphics.

[christocolus]

@lifes

Chill bro..no need trying to explain much anymore. Amd,nvidia and devs have spoken yet people want to believe what th3y want..E3 is just around the corner. I think all this bias and hate towards dx12 and xbx one will die down after the show...cant wait

[TitanUp]

Mark Cerny: PS4 Contains a Dedicated Audio Processing Chip

http://www.gamechup.com/mar...

[DigitalRaptor]

Ladies and gents, this is where desperation leads you. Granted, it's not as bad as some of your previous comments, but it's on the way there. But still, I see your friends down there sharing the stage of hopeful delusion. Hope is one thing, but when you pair that with delusion, that's not healthy.

Luckily you've been disarmed by facts and logic far too many times that at this point, I don't even need to waste much time on you. You've just been monumentally owned by the guys above this comment.

Truth is, in 15 months the Xbone will be just about scraping things that PS4 devs have been familiar with for quite some time already, and things are only going to break further apart when ICE team discovers new ways of pushing the tech to the bleeding edge.

[Ch1d0r1]

Take it easy when Phil Spencer and his xbots disappoint you once again.

[miyamoto]

its like telling a dwarf to grow up into a 6 foot man.

You are the very same people who said "specs & power does not matter"; "720p is better than 1080p"

... and now you are flip flopping to herald the Xbox One as "a-soon-to-be graphics powerhouse"? You reputation managers are so desperate, aren't you?

LOL!
How can the masses take you seriously.

Wait until you see the Second generation PS4 games versus the DX12 games on Xbone which are not even in development yet.

[Jumper09]

Both Xbone and PS4 have a dedicated Audio Chip.
The PS4 CPU is still faster than the Xbone CPU.

PS4 has 5GB of Ram available. Developers can choose if they wanna use the extra 500MB or not.

And for the last time, DX12 wont fix the missing GPU Power. People have to get over that.
Accept that the Xbone is weaker.

No Software can magicly add, more ROPs,TMUs, ACEs etc

[CuddlyREDRUM]

Stop writing essays for corporations.

[SilentNegotiator]

It's sad how many fanboys forget that DX12 is to catchup to Mantle/OpenGL. The pioneers here are NOT microsoft and MS will probably fall behind again in a year or two.

"The greatest software company in the world" sure has trouble staying on top of software advancements.

[Soc5]

Yeah! Can't wait to enjoy that!!

In two years....
/S

[Omegasyde]

"...Audio is hog when it comes to taxing the CPU and it's about half as taxing as graphics "

"PlayStation 4 lead architect Mark Cerny is always eager to talk about the hardware inside the PlayStation 4. He recently revealed that the PlayStation 4 has a dedicated audio processing chip, which is used to compress and decompress audio streams and various formats. This frees up some of the CPU power for other tasks. "

Hmm. So Ps4 offloads too.

Both systems have bottlenecks but the biggest is that each system has a bloated back ground OS. Each OS reserving about ~50% of the total RAM pool.

This bottleneck will disappear once Sony/MS reserve less ram. However Sony and MS are keep these pools smaller due to the possibility of implementing new features in the future. Dx12 will not make GPU any better, it will only make it work more efficiently.

[gigoran]

@lifeisgamesok
Sorry... I read everything you wrote but I couldn't understand it. I guess it's because I don't speak "delusional".

[Mozef]

Check this link.

http://n4g.com/news/1495153...

[Sy_Wolf]

Your level of comprehension is nowhere near what you think it is. I could write a 20 page essay on why you're wrong.

[TheSaint]

After reading your comment history I'm inclined to not believe a word you say.

[GarrusVakarian]

Oh look, we have MorePowerOfGreen and Truefan accusing "TEH PS4 FANZ" of "trolling" and "downplaying" DX12. They like to make those accusations to anyone who doesn't blindly praise DX12....anyone who doubts, questions or is uncertain about DX12 is a troll and a downplayer. Even when people, such as myself, say they own X1's and would only benefit from DX12 making big performance changes. Empty accusations from insecure Xbox fanboys who think software is more important than hardware and don't want to see anyone say otherwise. Sad.

Next time folks, to avoid such accusations, just blindly nod your head and say something along the lines of "can't wait to see Ryse 2 with DX12 50% more power!", or "DX12 will make the X1 jump four generations ahead!".

Oh and talking about trolling, here is an alternate account of MorePowerOfGreen where he pretends to be a PS3 fan in order to TROLL the entire PS fanbase-

http://n4g.com/user/comment...

How do i know that is MPOG? He gave out his PSN ID to me a few weeks back and it matches the PSN ID given by the 'PS3 slim' account (3rd comment down). Busted.

[Geoff900]

@johndoe11211

I think you have missed the point somewhere down the line, consoles hardware remain static however both Sony and MS will be able to boast performance via updating their OS, their firmware etc like they did with the prior consoles.

Servers, routers etc are modified, via the same method(s), and since both consoles, and networking equipment shift data around the comparison can be made.

I have designed mp for games before, hardware isn't as important as the software anymore hasn't been that way since the advent of multi-core CPU's.

DX12 will offload it's processes, onto the multi-cores, hence the performance gains, will the Xbox One be more powerful than the PS4? No.

What it will do is increase it's performance, enable developers to do more with the console, get the higher resolution people want.

[mewhy32]

Sony will now have to update their API too. This is good for the industry. Competition is always good.

[hazeblaze]

Number one, DirectX 12 won't even be available to developers until 2015... We won't be seeing anything anytime soon.

Number two, Xbox One already asked developers to code pretty close to the chip... So all of the benefits if directx on PC will not translate to Xbox b/c they are already being incorporated. There may be some boost, but it likely won't be that significant.

[jhhood]

OpenGL > Direct3D

DirectX is just an API to a library of tools. The biggest advancement its seen since DirectX 9.0c to DirectX 11 is tessellation. ALL of which is still and always was capable from previous versions, you just had to do everything manually. These may be optimized now, but just remember, the more libraries you use, the more bloated the software becomes with overhead.

[DarXyde]

"Directx 12 and by what Nvidia, Intel, and AMD are saying will be one of the biggest tech advances in some time "

You won't see an enormous leap with XBOX One though. You won't see it with PS4 either. Both are very much to the metal already. Advances with DX12 will be significant for PCs...but not for XBOX One. Both consoles will gain some benefits, but nothing crazy.

"People didn't believe me when i said the PS4 has limitations on the CPU processing until SuckerPunch revealed it at GDC "

Can you blame them? Honestly, who are you? Who am I? Makes more sense to hear it from someone with experience authority, don't you think? Additionally, let's wait and see how optimization goes. It's Sucker Punch's first PS4 game.

"Also 4.5 gigs isn't much for a game if the title has to include the audio and motion controls (Things like Delsin's spray painting) out of the game's memory "

http://www.gamechup.com/mar...

[reko]

@truefan

It's amazing how many xbox fan computer science and computer engineering professionals frequent this site, always being helpful spreading their wisdom. Always so quick to downplay anything significant ps4 related, when in actuality they have no idea about the possibilities or really any idea what they are talking about.

why so mad?

[Blaze929]

@Hellsvacancy let's be real - you'll see it and still, not, believe it.

[DoubleM70]

Yup! You know that what's going to happen. They will see and still want believe.

[Hicken]

You mean like how suddenly no Xbox fan can see the difference between 720/900p and 1080p?

What people are saying- and what Xbox fanboys are intentionally misunderstanding- is that it won't be the massive difference you think, because that's for PC.

For some unknown reason, every time that's made clear, Xbox fans try to muddle it up by saying detractors claim it won't do ANYTHING. Frankly, it both amazes and depresses me how you all can read the same thing over and over in different but still easy to grasp ways, and yet consistently assign your own screwed up definition to what you've read and/or heard.

[nycgamer4ever]

See what exactly? I hear all of the MS crowd talk about seeing "it". Are you talking about 1080p? solid framerates? You mean all the stuff already a given on the "other" console. I wouldn't be bragging too much if I were you guys. Taking almost 2 years to achieve what the competition has been doing pretty much day 1 with every game, except 1 (BF4) is not really something to brag about.

If you are talking about better looking and running games than the Ps4, then I would say you are in for a rude awakening. Direct x12 will have improvements in technology but it isn't a magic pill. Optimization will help BOTH consoles, but no amount will change the hardware.

In any case E3 is less than 2 months away. Time to put up or shut up. No more talk. Time to show. Won't be long now.

[Why o why]

All of this rhetoric for parity.

Lets let the games do the talking. The ps guys have nothing to prove as they have real life tangible proof. Where's the xbox proof..... thats right...theory. Its a given that both the x1 and ps4 will improve but you can only do so much improvement. It seems some are implying that the x1 will improve at a faster rate......well it had better with such a large disparity between the outputs.

I shouldn't see any of you guys in the next 'resolution doesn't matter' article. Because it obviously matters, you were just too cowardly to admit it when the proof was stacked against ya.

[randomass171]

The thing is Microsoft claims they have somethng up their sleeve. They have yet to really utilize it. I'm curious to see how Direct X12 will change things in action, but we should save the fanfare for AFTER we see it work.

[HugoDrax]

"WILL PROMPT SONY TO BOOST PS4"

Sounds like it's already occurring, I guess DX12 is being recognized?

http://www.dualshockers.com...

[hello12]

Job listing hardly means Sony is bringing directx12 features to PS4

The fact nivida stood with Amd on the same stage at the Microsoft build conference likely means this is the real deal

Software is more important than hardware. What would Battlefield 4 look like for it not for the Frostbite engine? This is software tech. Hardware can be way better with better drivers.

[GarrusVakarian]

@KNWS

"Software is more important than hardware"

Wow.........i can't believe you actually just said that. Please tell me you were joking? Now i really have heard it all. I wonder if you would be saying that if the X1 had the superior hardware?

Unbelievable.

[rdgneoz3]

"Software is more important than hardware. "

What would battlefield 4 look like on a 10 year old system using frostbite?

Software can always be improved. With consoles, hardware will never change. There's a big gap between ps4 and xbone hardware. Just look at the current game resolutions / quality. Also, people are talking like Sony will be sitting on their hands for the next year and a half+ till dx12 releases.

Competition is always good, it makes a better product. Xbone owners have that to thank for no 24 hour check ins and used games.

[johndoe11211]

@KNWS

"Software is more important than hardware" I cannot, CANNOT believe you said that. THIS. This right here is exactly what I was describing when I gave the description of a fanboy a few posts back.

The utter nonsense that some of you write is mind numbing. I would never have thought that anyone had the scrotum to make such an inconceivably erroneous and idiotic statement.

In which lifetime, planet, universe or dimension is software more than hardware? If that is the case why develop new hardware? Why are companies like asus, msi, gigabyte, amd, nvidia, biostar etc. spending billions of dollars to bring out new hardware every six months? Why don't they just develop better software drivers and charge us for it because it would cost them a hell of a lot less than having to manufacture physical parts.

Please feel free to not respond to this as I don't think that anything you say from here on out would make a lick of sense anyway.

[Why o why]

'Software is more important than hardware'

Quote of the day........ desperate edition

Why not just use that super software to upgrade the 360 and ps3. The amount of fallacies coming out of some of your mouths is phenomenal. You guys change your beliefs to counter the situation daily.

[NextGenHorny]

@KNWS
Congrats to you, for being able to use Windows 8 in your fantastic Amstrad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

[randomass171]

Direct X12 is the next big step it seems. I'd be surprised if Sony did not capitalize on it in some way.

[SephirothX21]

DX12 fully utilises all the cores on the cpu and makes communication between the cpu and gpu a lot more efficient. Therefore it will lead to significant performance gains. Hardware isn't the only thing that determines performance. The efficiency of the rendering engine and graphics api is absolutely vital. Try disabling occlusion culling, back-face culling, camera culling, instancing, pixel clipping and multi-threading in any current game and you'll see just how important software is.

[bluzone]

YOu are forgetting about OpenGL, that it will soon offer the same advantages that DX12 will offer.
From PCProspective:
http://www.pcper.com/review...
"Things do not always go as planned. The Xbox One has some performance issues as compared to the PS4. Promises that Microsoft made to developers about the capabilities of the XBOne seem to have been far too optimistic for what was actually delivered. It was likely during final development, with working silicon and the basic OS installed, that Microsoft realized they had some serious issues on their hands. The APU being used for that console contains eight cores running at lower speeds than even what a modern, low-end PC exhibits. With the single core/thread bias that DX11 exhibits, performance for the XBOne is not going to blow the doors off the competition. While MS and AMD have done quite a bit of optimizing at the OS level for the XBOne, there are still many improvements to be made. Consoles typically can be programmed for much closer to the metal than a PC, due to the hardware for that console being locked down and identical to every other XBOne out there. It is still a DirectX development platform though, and that means DX11 is the basis for what we see".
and for the PS4:
"The PS4 is in a slightly different scenario with its reliance on PSGL. PSGL is nearly identical to OpenGL, but custom tailored by Sony for the Playstation. Sony has been able to move a bit closer to the metal than what Microsoft has, because Sony is not constrained by a more general programming environment that Microsoft is with DirectX 11. We really can only make some general guesses as to what actual performance is on the PS4 vs. the XBOne, but the PS4 does have a far more robust implementation in terms of hardware than what Microsoft does. It will be interesting to see more concrete performance figures from these consoles once more cross-platform titles become common".
Enough said.

[randomass171]

Interesting stuff. As long as it makes development easier and more efficient, I'm all for it. I think that's what should matter most, otherwise the games being made will be more costly and financially hazardous.

[SephirothX21]

Of course OpenGl will offer the same advantages. The problem with OpenGl is there are different implementations based on the vendor. Though the PS4 does not use OpenGL. It uses GNM, a graphics api built from the ground up by Sony. The syntax looks very similar to DirectX 11 and it has the same features. Sony might be able to upgrade the api to match DX12 but MS are probably not going to release the ingredients of the api.

[Mkai28]

Crazy thing is a lot of ppl think it's some "hardware" you put in, the power you need is already there. DirectX12 will improve the hardware through software as you stated with the CPU.. It will also add tiled resources, and as stated by Frank Savage 1080p 60fps is achievable. I am assuming without DX12, problem for developers is they have to have a "straight and narrow path" to access 1080p.

"ESRAM is dedicated RAM, it’s 32 megabytes, it sits right next to the GPU, in fact it’s on the other side of the GPU from the buses that talk to the rest of the system, so the GPU is the only thing that can see this memory.
And what it does is that it gives you very very high bandwidth output, and read capability from the GPU as well. This is useful because in a lot of cases, especially when we have as large content as we have today and five gigabytes that could potentially be touched to render something, anything that we can move to memory that has a bandwidth that’s on the order of 2 to 10 x faster than the regular system memory is gonna be a huge win.

So this is where you put things that you gonna read a lot like a shadow map, put things that you draw to a lot, like your back buffer… We have resource creation settings that allow you to put things into there, and don’t have to all reside in the ESRAM, there can be pieces of it that can reside in regular memory as well. So for example if I’m a racing game, and I know that the top third of my screen is usually sky and that sky doesn’t get touched very much, great, let’s leave that in regular memory, but with the fast memory down here we’re gonna draw the cars. This works practically for any D3D resource there is, buffers, textures of any flavors… There’s no CPU access here, because the CPU can’t see it, and it’s gotta get through the GPU to get to it, and we didn’t enable that.

So the last thing you have to do to get it all composited up is to get it copied over to main memory. That copy over to main memory is really fatst, and it doesn’t use any CPU or GPU time either, because we have DMA engines (Data Move Engines) that actually do that for you in the console. This is how you get to 1080p, this is how you run at 60 frames per second… period, if you’re bottlenecked by graphics.”

http://wccftech.com/microso...

[ShwankyShpanky]

@system22: The PS4 CPU clock has never been officially confirmed, only assumed, and as stated above, actually outperformed the X1 CPU on a per-core benchmark.

[scotmacb]

You will this year i think

[2cents]

Again, another DX12 claim not from Microsoft.

no substance yet again, just another 'I think that...'

Personally I hope that MS will have some specific details at E3.

[Ausbo]

Fanboys on both sides are wrong. Yes this update will boost Xbox one performance, but it will never be more powerful than the ps4. Fact.

on the other hand. The resolution crap will go away to. I expect it to be like last Gen. Slightly better looking games on ps4 but same resolution and frame rate. And superior ps4 exclusives. It all comes down to how much MS first party push their console.

[marlinfan10]

its hard to say its a fact when no one actually knows yet

[Jumper09]

The difference wont be slightly when the generation goes on.
Xbone already struggles with games like Titanfall and Trials Fusion.
No constant 60fps, tearing...

[Prime157]

I really feel the title was taken out of context of what this developer was saying. There was no negative connotation to Sony. In fact, I would point out that their game was said to be coming out on PlayStation systems and no others were mentioned.

If people could only read the full article before commenting we could have great convos.

I'm confused, flame bait?

[Gamer1982]

I'm sorry but indie devs know practically nothing about this tech and really dont need to. With statements like this it proves they know nothing too. If it was a real dev then people may listen but the big devs who know what they are talking about have come out and said they wonder if it will make a little bit of real world difference on consoles at least. So who to believe? A dev who has made his living knowing the latest techs and keeping up with them or a dev who probably makes games in his bedroom? (as you can be a dev and work in your bedroom these days in fact a lot of indie devs do work from home).

[JasonKCK]

DX on PC has been pushing some of the most beautiful games ever made, for many years now, and people here still say "I need to see it to believe it" LOL

[Hellsvacancy]

"DX on PC has been pushing some of the most beautiful games ever made"....... on PC yeah

As for the XB1, yes "I need to see it to believe it"

[JasonKCK]

DX works great on PC, all different kinds of PC's. Consoles are PC's, so it should work just fine.

[FrigidDARKNESS]

Xbox onE is the hardware of the future for devs they are excited about DX-12 as wel as Nvidia, Intel and AMD. Can't wait to see games built from the ground up with DX-12 on Xbox One and PC going to be amazing.

[bicfitness]

Where to even start? One GPU is simply more powerful, and consoles already code pretty close to metal. Plus, Sony has more mature tools.

There is no scenario - in reality - where MS catches up to Sony's box on a technical level. Ever. The end.

I'm going to assume that you're stealth trolling, because anything else is just sad.

[FrigidDARKNESS]

I hope you realize the xb1 gpu is fully custom with graphic accelerators vs. An off the shelf gpu.

[Foraoise]

Frigid, you're not smart, hahaha

[captain_slow82]

theres delusional fanboys and some of them can see there selfs so some have turned into trolls but there still delusional lol

the gpu will always be better in ps4 than the gpu in the x1 no amount of software will change that.

but but but dx12 will make the hardware better its not going to happen simples accepted it

ps4 gpu>>>>>x1 gpu :D

[GarrusVakarian]

@Frigid

You lose all credibility when you say things like the PS4 is using "An off the shelf gpu".

I mean......what? There's no way you actually believe it's an off the shelf part with no customization whatsoever. You are downplaying superior hardware by making completely false statements......try harder.

[MasterCornholio]

I hope you realize the PS4s gpu is more powerful with more cores vs a weaker GPU un the Xbox One.

[adorie]

"I hope you realize the xb1 gpu is fully custom with graphic accelerators vs. An off the shelf gpu."

LOL. They're both custom. You're reaching.

[frostypants]

Stop lumping the One in with PC. The latter has far more potential for added efficiencies than the former.

[Majin-vegeta]

Do you and Lifesis ever get tired of being wrong and just writing comments full of fud?

[Metfanant]

Hahahaha!! I missed you Frigid with your MisterX fueled drivel...

[-Foxtrot]

Isn't the whole point of this "boost" by DirectX 12 so they can close the gap with the PS4. If thats the case then I think Sony are good for now.

If they did boost the PS4 then there would most likely be another gap.

[scotmacb]

Yes but the big news about dx12 is 80-90% of game makers use it if sony come out with their version it will not be used by most thats why they are so excited

[rainslacker]

By the looks of it, at least if you go by what people are saying here, X1 will get a rather large boost sometime later this year, or next year. That will make it "catch up" to what the PS4 offers now, or surpass it if you want to believe some of the comments. I personally won't debate it now.

What we'll see though is that Sony's tools and API's will see a steadier increase in abilities over time with the occasional bigger jump. That's pretty much how OpenGL has progressed over it's lifetime.

After DX12 releases the X1 will likely continue on a similar path. Just sort of a steady increase over time. I find it highly unlikely that we'll see a DX13 in the X1's lifetime, and if we do, looking at historical releases of DX, it will be worthless anyways.

Eventually what the two offer will be rather similar, so it will come down to raw power of the systems themselves. As MS and Sony unlock different parts of the system that are no longer reserved for whatever OS purposes they serve, developers will just be able to use more of the system for their needs.

[THC CELL]

people forget the ps4 has not been tweaked as yet and dont think it will need to be for a good year, i could not care naughty dog and others will show the xbox up like they did with ps3 with uncharted and god of war and last of us.. when the ps4 gets to a stage where it needs to be optimized then xbox will of wasted it time with this update catching the ps4

[christocolus]

Games made ground up with dx12 are to be released holiday 2k15 but im hoping Remedy,platinum games,rare, insomniacs and 343i use this for their upcoming games.. halo5 ,a new Banjoe or even gears running on dx12 will be a sight to behold.

E3 cant come soon enough.

[Jumper09]

Be ready for dissapointment. Neither of this games will 1080p.

Sunset Overdrive? 900p, mabye even 720p.

[christocolus]

I really dont care dude..i would play those games at any resolution 720,900 or 1080p. Ryse isnt even 1080p and yet its graphics look incredible for a launch title.

1080p or not im looking forward to what these great devs will be able to achieve with the hardware and dx12.

[imt558]

Love to read DX12 boost Xbone perfomance fairy tale.

[Gr1mmyshadows]

sure there is no hard evidence yet of what Dx12 can do for the XB1 but when Intel AMD and Nvidia are excited about something then i think it's safe to say that Dx12 shouldnt be taken lightly

[AD705]

Every version of directx gets the same amount of hype and promises and it never really delivers on it. Sure it will improve things but not like how everyone thinks it will.

[LordHiggens]

It does have the potential to make improvements, but the hardware difference will always be there! You can put a nice spoiler some great tires and adjust suspension on a car...that will improve performance but unless you seriously change what's under the hood you wont see significant gains.

The same correlation can be drawn with the PS4 and Xbox One

The PS4 is simply more powerful.

[6DEAD6END6]

That's what they fail to realize.

[incendy35]

Depends on how you look at it. The one major new thing about DX12 is you can flag operations to run parallel across all the CPU cores. In the case of the X1 that means you are telling it to use the extra 8 cpu cores on top of the gpu Cores for graphic related operations. X1 has a very unique architecture, they are using a 30GB/s system bus which makes parallel operations make so much sense. On the PS4 this bus is 10GB/s.

In theory the X1 could see a performance advantage when you look at the system as a whole if the developers take advantage of parallel tasks. The issue is running code parallel on PC's is almost impossible due to PC's having separate memory channels. The hope is DX12 will take this complexity away by using flags to check the capabilities and then offering a simple way to tell the system to take advantage if it can.

[HugoDrax]

Mentioned over on another dual shockers article I'll find the link in a bit. This isn't my explanation, but I found it interesting as I don't understand the approach to the XB1 and PS4 architecture.

"DMA engines, Direct Memory Access, special registers that pull push data around with their own que system separate of the CPU. ie: MS's custom "MOVE ENGINES" on the X1 SoC are what is being referred to here.

They are saying they omitted the ability for the CPU to access the ESRAM because they have (four iirc) move engines that can do this concurrently without the CPU being bothered. This is a massive advantage in real world bandwidth and real world latency numbers for the system's combine ESRAM and DDR3.

Basically, the difference being the PS4 has two direct channels to memory (CPU+GPU) that can write concurrently but both require the commands to be cached, the Xbox has far more options (CPU to DD3, GPU to DD3, GPU to ESRAM, Move engines to ESRAM, Move engines to DDR3) of which some can read/write/copy concurrently.

This is only a big deal if an engine is designed to access them. On the PS4, nothing needs to be done to get full speed, but that also means there is the less potential for optimization, the result is an immediate benefit for PS4, and a delayed on for X1. Expect big gains in new engines and poorer performance in old engines that do not utilize the concurrent read/write/move. Exactly what we are seeing with launch multiplats on old engines, and much better performance on games designed specifically for X1 (Ryse and Forza)."

@incendy35 What do you think? You seem to have some understanding of these consoles.

[purp13m0nk3y]

Is it interesting tech no doubt. But the CPU component in the current consoles (PS4 included) is incredibly weak compared to the GPU component.

The CPU part of the APU's that power the PS4 and the Xbox1 manage about 130 Gflops (that is through all 8 cores) both the Xbox1 and PS4 have several cores put aside for OS and background tasks. So significantly less raw performance is available to developers.

It makes far more sense to off load as much load as possible to the GPU cores, as the GPU's inside both consoles (though very different performance wise) are still orders of magnitude more powerful than the CPU. Approximately 1800 Gflops PS4 and 1300 Gflops for the Xbox1.

The way you're talking, you want to place addition load on what is already a weak and over loaded component.

While I think DX12 will offer some nice CPU performance gains for the Xbox1. I also think in terms of an "overall" performance gain, it will mean very little for the system as a whole.

The Xbox1 will still have a very weak GPU compared to the PS4. DX12 will do very little for GPU performance.

[incendy35]

@HugoDrax: as for the move engines I can only comment on what I have read, but it seems they are very specialized engines for offloading tiling and compression tasks for both the CPU and the GPU. And that is very important because those are very common and expensive tasks. I can't say what actual performance advantages they actually have though sorry. I am interested to see more on them though. I am accepted in the id@xbox program but I haven't gotten the SDK yet.

@Purp13Monk3y: You have to remember that GPU and CPU cores are completely different beasts. GPU's are extremely fast, mostly because they are extremely simple and for lack of a better word, stupid. GPU's are meant for doing procedural tasks. The best way to get performance is to get the CPU and the GPU to work together. Anything logically based on the CPU and anything procedural like looping through arrays on the GPU. This is already happening on Computers but it is limited because we are literally passing the memory back and forth. Create Array on CPU, move Array to GPU, process array, send back to CPU, and on and on. With unified memory this becomes so much more powerful because now you are snooping the same memory and can work in parallel with each other. AMD says the performance gains of using parallel operations is 2.4 times faster.

[rainslacker]

@Hugo

Good explanation of what's going on in the X1. Kudos.

More options are there on the X1 for optimization. That's not a bad thing really. However, look at the PS3. It had lots of options for increasing game/graphic performance. Sony banked heavily on SPU offload to boost the PS4's performance to unseen levels. It really had a lot of potential. I was excited for it because of that potential. But how many games really used those options? Mostly just Sony 1st party studios, and their games showed the power of such optimizations.

Based on my own experience with being excited for convoluted technologies that SHOULD make things better, I just now find it funny how some people are now praising such technologies when they criticized them heavily in the past. In MS defense though, the Move engines are less convoluted than the SPU Cell architecture.

Development costs nowadays don't allow for that much optimization, particularly on a multi-plat title. The PS4 doesn't need as much optimization, and that's a key part on why it's so powerful. It was designed that way at developer's request. Just straight access to the hardware with a unified memory pool to make making games easier and quicker without as much need for optimizing to specific hardware intricacies.

Many people claim that X1 has more chance for optimization, which is true, but neglect the fact that those optimizations aren't needed as much on the PS4.

New engines will certainly help streamline the process, but in some cases what you're talking about is going to be a completely different set of rules for the X1 release of a game, and more time spent optimizing what just works out of the box on the PS4.

[HugoDrax]

@incendy35

" I am accepted in the id@xbox program but I haven't gotten the SDK yet."

Congrats! and good luck with your projects :-) Thanks for the in depth response as well.

@rainslacker

"and more time spent optimizing what just works out of the box on the PS4."

That's a good point! it will be interesting to see where these consoles are in 2 years. Especially, after they mature a bit more and developers become more comfortable with the architecture.

[cfc78]

As a boost for xb1 i hope dx12 works well but im not reading anymore into it than that,happy to wait and see how it works out.

[kevnb]

Sounds like pr garbage statements.

[ShowGun901]

eh, all he really said is its good for the industry, cause if the x1 advances, itll force the ps4 to advance as well

a rising tide lifts all boats

competition is a good thing, the click-bait article heading is another story however.

[ShowGun901]

to be fair, the "x1 is doomed!" articles are just as annoying as the "secret sauce" articles.

[TheTowelBoy]

For real.

[randomass171]

Agreed. A lot of hoohah gets flung around. Lots of theories and rumors get treated as facts... it happens a lot on the net it seems.

[FrigidDARKNESS]

Hey guys isn't this wonderful the xbox one is native DX-12 with full support. Awesome stuff here.

[DoesUs]

Frigid, it's wonderful! I'm so happy right now, looking at these 2 devkits infront of me...knowing what I do, and now seeing you ...back to your blind love for a piece of plastic, hoping its some alien technology! You, my good man...are in for a VERY long generation 8)

[DigitalRaptor]

I know man. Blind delusional hope based on nothing but bias, is one of the more thrilling things in life.

[Dark_matter]

You just know articles like this are gonna heat up with ps fanboys and the xbox fanboys are just rileing it up. This is gonna be good

[Kavorklestein]

Honestly, Xbox fans aren't really doing a damn thing in these (and all DX12 comments sections) besides saying,
"Who Knows?"
"I Hope So"
"That would be sweet"
"We'll see IF and how Much it helps"
"I think this could really be possible"
"AMD and Nvidia seem to feel the tech is going a real, existing benefit, whether on the PC side, or MORE, it's neat to consider the possibilities, given how un-optimized the X1 is, and that leaves me optimistic, or hopeful, and kinda excited"
"Time will Tell"
Etc..

And several other variations of similar un-hatred filled, relevant, respectful, and excited comments from the Xbox Crowd.

It's the Sony Fans, and Pretty much ONLY the Sony fans who are doing ANY mud-slinging, or perpetuating malice, hatred, disrespect, arrogance, or bigotry.

It's the Sony fans who want nothing else but to see competition fail. It's the Sony fans who down-vote any and all posts/comments with even a GLIMPSE of words the make the Xbox One have a single positive Pro Vs. Cons list, that act as if they have some magical power to somehow "KNOW" things from the future, or with any kind of debate about the excitement it brings to xbox fans, have to resort to insults and foolishness to approach a topic that not only doesn't really concern them, but also makes them look more like they are WORRIED that such a thing COULD be true.

I am tired of the Hypocrisy, and the shallow minded responses from Sony fans.

I don't wanna hear the phrases about how it's never been done before, that hasn't stopped innovation from springing up from un-expected places, and unprecedented things happening with little to no explanation as to how such advancements were overlooked before the new "thing's" inception.
If nothing else, remember the simple fact that in the technological field, advancements are made every single day...

I am NOT saying any of this is somehow guaranteed, or that MS's promises are gonna come to be in the way that people are hoping, or that it's gonna happen, or that it's gonna revolutionize everything.

But.. ALL YOU NAYSAYERS are doing NOTHING BUT
Nay-saying.
It's not anything more than opinion from ANY of us on here on this topic.. Opinion.. That is all.

We can't just take facts that apply in the PAST and explicitly apply them to the future..
Change and advancement is always possible, from any of these consoles, we never really know what is around the next corner.

I choose to stay excited, Until I get disappointed.
Optimistic, but reluctant.

We should ALL take ALL things Tech-
with a grain of salt.

[Blackleg-sanji]

while i do think dx12 will help the xb1 a little, people are fools if they think the ps4 wont get better as well so the gap will remain

[bornsinner]

ok i'll believe it when i see multiplats having the same resolution

[corvusmd]

"Ever since Microsoft unveiled DirectX 12, there’s been some mixed reactions to the API’s capabilities for increasing the performance of the Xbox One" Uh...what mixed reviews? You mean fanboys that don't WANT it to work? Because when anyone that has actually had experience with DX12 has nothing but good things to say about it, and when they are all 3rd parties (and even direct competition in Sony Devs and AMD) saying nothing but good things about it...maybe believe praise a little bit. They have no reason to stick their necks out, but do. The ONLY people I've heard say ANYTHING bad about it are people that have no experience with it and WANT it to fail.

AMD created mantle, but had been working with MS on this tech for 3-4 years before releasing mantle, and THEY are excited about it. When companies like Intel, AMD, NVidia, etc say it's a game changer and "four generations ahead"...let's stop pretending that some fanboy at home with access to internet knows better. How about you let it come out first before you try to trash talk it...doing otherwise is kinda showing your hand a little too early.

As far as Sony getting better, of course they will, but Sony doesn't have the software developing power that MS does, so it's a bit different for them, they will have to rely on 3rd parties to do this for them. Like AMD with Mantle (and if Mantle creators are singing DX12 praises...) . It's also worth noting that since MS is the first party to this type of software, they can continually tinker with it and fine tune it as much as necessary to continually boost performance...whereas Sony will most likely have to outsource that kind of thing every time they want a change. No doubt both companies will improve, but the advantage for this type of improvement is in MS's court...and both companies better. However, truth be told, as long as DX12 makes major steps in helping XB1 reach 1080p/60fps consistently...it's all really a mute point after that.

Also, in gamer dream world, if XB1 is able to use DX12 to make more efficient CPU/GPU AND utilize the same tiled resources in DX11.2 AND Cloud computing turns out to be even a fraction of what it was demo'd to be...this can become a VERY different Gen real quick. The Xb1 will be able to start moving 6gbs of textures at a moments notice using only 32mbs while keeping speed and efficiency at a premium (while having essentially a second virtual GPU for less immediate needs)...at that point games will really be limited only by Dev resources and imagination. HOWEVER, this is an IF at this point, it'd have to all work of course. At this point, based on the demos and testimonials we have to go on, it looks like at least most of this will work out...probably not as good as Xbox Fanboys would like, and not as Bad as Sony Fanboys would hope.

[GarrusVakarian]

"but Sony doesn't have the software developing power that MS does"

See, this is what i was talking about above....people just completely forgetting about hardware and acting like software is more important. Sure, every gamer worth his salt knows MS is superior in the software field....but Sony have HARDWARE in the PS4 right now, that is superior. Why why why are people suddenly so keen to forget hardware....the most important aspect of our consoles BY FAR?

So, in response to your quote above, i could modify it and say - but MS doesn't have the hardware developing power that Sony does.

"probably not as good as Xbox Fanboys would like, and not as Bad as Sony Fanboys would hope."

That is one of the smartest things ive ever read from you.

[mixelon]

Of COURSE GPU makers sing the praises of new DX builds. In the past they've been a massive consideration causing people to upgrade their graphics cards.

Nvidia and AMD constantly overhype new features that either barely get used or weren't that big a deal in the first place. They depend on people demanding the newest and shiniest. They'll rally behind MS to hype this because they stand to make a ton of money.

[Kavorklestein]

Actually, you are SO worng. So so wrong it's not even funny. While I will agree that Nvidia and AMD wanna make as much money as possible, DX12 stands as presented to actually INCREASE people's performance WITHOUT upgrading. That's the whole point of this feature being mentioned, is that it will IMPROVE people's existing set up by enabling all the cores that were previously INACTIVE, or were relying on ONE CORE to do most of the work.

Looks like YOU and the 8 people who agreed with you missed the whole point of all of the DX12 talk, and if THAT'S possible, even though the writing is clearly on the wall, then how many others in this thread misunderstood DX12 and the DX12 tech demo in GENERAL?

P.S. Epic Fail

[mixelon]

@kavorklestein You're telling me they aren't going to make massive sales pushes on cards that are "DX12 ready" ? You're insane if so.

People are going to upgrade their cards for DX12, regardless of how many of the features work on old cards. Massive api updates like this sell cards, and nvidia and AMD are banking on them doing so.

[ShwankyShpanky]

" (while having essentially a second virtual GPU for less immediate needs)"

Ah, so this was our mistake all along... We didn't realize the 2nd hidden dGPU was "virtual."

[purp13m0nk3y]

Lols at the Xbots grasping at straws.

On paper the PS4 GPU is infact more advanced and more heavily customized than the Xbox1's. Not to mention about 50% more powerful.

The PS4's apparent CPU "bottle neck" Lol! What a joke. Not only have benchmarks shown that even in single threaded tests the PS4's out performs the Xbox1 (so negating any multi threaded advantage the Xbox1 may or may not receive with DX12)

Plus the PS4's vastly superior GPGPU Compute capabilities mean devs can free up even more CPU processing by offloading many tasks to the GPU. And since many of those tasks can be done asynchronously, it doesn't negatively effect GPU performance at all. Devs basically get these asynchronous compute tasks done "for free" performance wise, because they are done on free CU cycles that would otherwise be wasted.

I always have a good giggle reading the xbots trying to sound like they know what their talking about. When in reality their comments are basically gibberish lol.

[Jumper09]

Its not only on paper... you already got to see the differences between both consoles.

[Blackleg-sanji]

wow the fact that i said dx12 would help the x1 but still got disagrees because i said the gap will remain proves xbox fanboys(not fans theres a difference) think dx12 will push x1 above the ps4

[Naga]

... or people interpreted your statement as saying that the gap will remain the same as it is and they merely think it will become much smaller.

... or people think that the gap will be completely closed and there will be an level playing field after DX12 implementation.

... or people disagree with your characterization of detractors as "fools" for not thinking the PS4 will see an equal boost in performance.

... or some fanboys from the other side of the argument don't think the Xbox One will see ANY improvement, and therefore disagree with the first part of your comment.

... or some grammar nazis disagree with your complete lack of capitalization or punctuation.

... or people like to disagree with black & white statements on gray issues.

... or some people just like to disagree because it irritates people like you.

As you can see, there are a lot of reasons why someone might click disagree with that comment. You can't justifiably jump to your narrow conclusion with so little information. And if stealth disagrees bother you so much, you might want to re-evaluate your outlook. It is the internet, after all.

[Blackleg-sanji]

u typed all that -_- y? your right this is the internet, logic goes out the window with some ppl

[Naga]

@ Blackleg-sanji

I type quickly, so it wasn't much trouble.

[BG11579]

To think that DX12 only exists because of AMD's mantle.
And that mantle was just was supposed to bring a low level API to PC in the same way they exist in consoles.
Consoles that in such don't use DX, but API or a low level custom DX...

So what does DX12 bring to the bone already?

[Software_Lover]

I play good games that look interesting to me. Nothing more nothing less. DX12, OpenGL 36....... Whatever doesn't mean a thing to me.

I will still play Halo with the current toolset if its good. I will still play the next uncharted if the PS4 isn't updated.

Its funny how spec articles get the most responses on this site.

[Why o why]

Well then you win.......

Consoles power has always been contested. Its not new or exclusive to xbox vs ps. No harm is done just apart from the pain to fan/fanboy pride. From resolution doesnt matter to championing secret sauce......the fickleness is rife

[JediDiah]

I hope
....only time will tell.

[lemoncake]

DX 12 will obviously make a difference for xbox 1 when its released, how much though is up in the air until we actually get some DX 12 games.

[jXales]

isn't openGL open source?
That means any and everybody interested in such API's can and eventually will upgrade and improve openGL in due time?

This whole DX 12 hype is really ridiculous. Too much talk so far with not much proof and people are connecting dots where there aren't any dots to connect to trying to make sense out of something that has no basis yet.

Everyone needs a big cup of stfu and wait for E3 before we start pretending to know anything about dx12 and its benefits

[D3ATH_DRIV3R_777]

It's just like i said, as XBOX advances , PS4 advances, but better. When will XBOX fans understand that the gap will never close between these systems, so give it a rest already. I'm trying to show my respect to them, but things like this make me wonder, why am i doing this?

[Elit3Nick]

You assume that Sony can match MS, a software company, in software updates. No matter what, the gap will shorten, the amount of which is still to be determined, but Sony simply can't match software leaps and optimizations that MS can put out.

[Bytor]

Seems to me Sony is already ahead and they have been optimizing 8 cores for a lot longer than Microsoft and Mark Cerney said it's designed so the full power won't be released for2 or 3 years down the road and how great can Microsoft be when their windows is till shit after 30 years.

[Elit3Nick]

Wow where to start...

1)How the hell would you consider Sony to be ahead in software?!? MS has been updating the X1 with new features every month, not to mention the multitasking capabilities of its OS and the use of tiled resources in BF4 and NFS.

2)What?, the PS4 is Sony's first console with an 8 core processor, where MS has had years of having Windows running on 8 core computers.

3)Both consoles already use most of their power already, with the PS4 using most already because of its less complicated architecture than the X1. It's optimizations that will allow the consoles to make more efficient use of their hardware, and DX12 will allow almost perfectly balanced multi-threading for the X1.

[stormplyr]

Looks like MisterX's minions are here

[Elit3Nick]

Why shouldn't xbox fans be here? This article is directed towards them, yet you seem to act like everything belongs to the sony fanboys.

[stormplyr]

When did I say Xbox fans couldn't be here? Clearly by saying MisterX's minions was referring to those that lap up his bs like gospel. Anybody with a basic understanding of the hardware in the systems knows the software won't make up for hardware differences. And btw the article showed up in the PS4 section.

[XStation]

My first comment; Hello everyone! I like both the PS4 and Xbox One...

[Blackleg-sanji]

apparently u aren't allowed to like both on here so run!! run for the hills

[ShiftyLookingCow]

Often when I see overblown headlines on N4G, its from this site.

[Predaking77]

And here we go again with the magic beans and secret sauces. Even developers has spoken officially saying that dx12 will not make the x1 more powerful than PS4. Even logic tells you that hardware cannot be upgraded with software. You can optimize within current hardware limitations.

Oh well, let them flight in false hopes, they will crash very hard when reality strikes once again. Like if the lies of the power of the cloud weren't enough.

[Elit3Nick]

Cite me the devs that deny that it'll work, because all I see is the major devs and Nvidia and AMD praising the capabilities of DX12. Who said that it'll "upgrade" the hardware? Of course hardware can't be changed by software, but assuming that optimizations have a negligible performance increase is pure ignorance. If it wasn't for these types of optimizations, the 360 and PS3 wouldn't have been able to have games that look as good as Crysis 3 and GTA5. And DX12 is a huge step up in optimizing hardware's limitations, since multi-threading allows the given cores to push out much more performance since all cores will have more balanced resource management, rather than a single core doing most of the work.

[Omegasyde]

You do realize that not all graphics cards are backward compatible?

So if a new game has all these features and a PC gamer, can't play due to now not meeting minimum requirement, what do you think PC gamer will do?

They will go purchase a new graphics card. This same cycle happens every 2-3 years.

[RosettaStoned]

so many feels in here

[neoandrew]

You xone fanboys don't get it, do you?

Whatever m$ with the help of nv and/or amd will do, they CAN'T and WILL NEVER make xone faster than ps4, you CAN'T make one hardware faster by another more powerful by just updating software, even if it is the best software in the world, period.

[lemoncake]

It is not about making machines physically faster, it is about making it more efficient.

If you deny that a system can be made to do more things by improving efficiency then i point you in the direction of the last gen as a starting point.

Seems you dont get it, or want to deny it for some crazy fanboy reason.

[GodGinrai]

@neoandrew

No. You dont get it. Nobody..and i repaet..NOBODY( did it sink in that time?) Is saying it will be more powerful than PS4. What MS and devs (you know like the guy being quoted in this very article) are saying is that X1 performance will improve. please. let that sink in...I will say it ONE.MORE.TIME..Nobody is saying it will be more powerful...It WILL improve the X1s performance...I cant say that any simpler.

[neoandrew]

Nobody is saying, but thats what xone fanboys think (if you are not a xone fanboy then it was not to you), that xone will be as fast as p4 or even better, well, it never will be.

[DJustinUNCHAIND]

I love my Xbox One and welcome all improvements, both minor and significant.

[ack591]

I am not sure how is everyone, but I am a bit tired of their pr. Please show us the games that do the tricks and stop all the spinning.

[HappyWithOneBubble]

All this hype and I guarantee this will be a disappointment to millions of XB1 fans. Open your eyes MS playing yall like a fiddle. When yall gonna stop and say no for once to the lies.

[Lawboy2]

I like how ppl totally missed the fact that yet again this is a dev who has never seen or touched dx 12 and is just talking about what thapey think...this isn't Microsoft but they get blamed for pr...this is a playstation dev talking about dx 12 and doing or for sony saying sony will dev something to boost the ps4...wow how ppl don't read

[Mr_Luke]

Good, finally the Xbone will match (almost) the PS4. Too bad the PS4 software/devkit/whatever will improve too, so.... neverending story.

[KingMig]

All the crap aside, looking forward to getting Directx 12, Directx 11 as far as I am aware as ran for the last 5-6 years, obviously some updates have been done, but hardware as come along way in all them years and its about time that the software gets updated. PCs will see massive performance boosts due to the lack efficiency of the software, PCs have overcome this problem by using higher and higher powered hardware (Its like smashing a drawing pin in with a sledge hammer), once the software is perfected to match current hardware standards, people using current hardware may find that's more than capable of running any software thrown at it.
One other thing people said that using the cloud was all Microsoft hype, here is a look how it is being used http://www.youtube.com/watc... don't know the connection speed that would be needed to do that, but just goes to show Microsoft are not all talk and no action.

[jhoward585]

All I have to say, "DEMO PLEASE"

with out it..it just another secret sauce rant.

[bligmerk]

Is this like the secret second GPU or stacked GPU that was going to double the XBO performance?

The delusional devotion that xbox fanbois have will be a future psychology study. If we took all the things they have been hurling for the past six months, the XBO would appear to be about 6 to 10 times more powerful than the PS4. And yet, all the devs are struggling to keep XBO games above 720p.

After all this time, people should know these graphics API improvementsa are first demonstrated at SIGGRAPH, then the code taken back to develop. DirectX improvements are followed by OpenGL not long afterwards. Tesselation is a recent example. Right now, the PS4 is doing a lot more particles, polygons and volumetric lighting effects than the XBO, usually at higher resolution. Sony studios develop their own custom API, so let's see what Naughty Dog has to say at E3.

[quenomamen]

You know im sick and tired of you Sony boyz spreading false information, nobody ever said 6-10X as powerful, not once. Teh Cloud only makes it 4X as powerful, 4X ! Get it through your thick heads !!!!

[bligmerk]

I stand corrected, sir.

[lesrima88]

lmao talk about wishful thinking

[TKCMuzzer]

Both consoles will improve over time but there will always be a gap, hardware dictates this.

[loggedurip]

The person who wrote this article has no idea how software updates and hardware updates work. Even if it does boost the xbox one it cannot make up the difference for the 40% less shaders the gpu has compared to the ps4.

[thexmanone]

You know what's funny. Every time there is a article with the words. Xbox one and improving in it. The Sony Ponies go on damage control. Why are they so worried that the Xbox one will improve? Why not just worry about the system you own and just enjoy the games it has to offer.

[XStation]

The only thing people argue over this generation so far is power. Why is no one arguing over games??? This whole resolution thing has went into people heads and are taking control of them. As a xbox fan, i'll admit the PS4 is stronger than the xbox one and is not a bad system. Now i got the one because of the GAMES, i want games that i like on a system i want...< See that? That's a period and that's all that should matter...And honestly i feel like this is Sony's last console, so they saved the best for last.

[quenomamen]

Yea, X1 has cool games like KI. Wish PS4 had a rehash from 1992, wheres Mortal Kombat Sony wtf ????

[jairusmonillas]

You mean just like how MS supported 360's 2nd half of its lifetime? With all of those Kinect games? haha funny xbox fans are saying games matter when xbox is the one who had no games for almost the last 4 years with 360.

[XStation]

Dumb asl and i'm not even gonna name all the games that came out in its 2nd half. You're a ignorant fanboy you no lining, cookie monster, looking fool.

[quenomamen]

Keep talking about they gonna fix things, MS all hat no cattle.

[corroios]

OMG, more 15 months of this DX12 dream. Every single week. Over and over, and over...

The DX12 will save the Xbox one...

[Illusive_Man]

Multithreading will help PS4 and not Xbox One. Great fanboy logic.

[SpinalRemains138]

You broke a thermometer in my hand.

[Ch1d0r1]

More broken hearts for xboner trolls. If it ain't the secret sauce running under the hood it will fantasy development tools they promise to release.

And keep on trolling because you guys make us laugh each day, all of the ridiculous comments you guys post are great. It's funny to read how far some people have their head up MS ass.

[GodGinrai]

LOL! you mad bro?

"And keep on trolling"...Oh, the irony...you are in an Xbox thread...badmouthing the xbox...and YOU have the nerve to call people trolls?

[player002]

Mark my words u all will be eating crow @E3 when Ms shows the cards they are holding when did gamers become such morons..Xb1 will improve it was designed for DX12 what is so hard to understand about that yes PS4 on paper is more pwerful bbut if it does not take advantage of it hardware what's the point?This is where u guys dont understand that esram will tile 6 gigs of data that alone will make up the difference also all cores will go online instaed of one ...XB1 is only using one core the rest are barely being touched same with Ps4 the reason is that programing for cpu's has not caught up with gpu's this is a fact AMD ,Inntel and Nvidia all say that cpu optimization has not been good on all multi core cpu's these are the people that there biz is graphics so how the hell do u all know better than them SMH..DX12 is coming this year freakin read ppl MS said early access this year and that all studios now have new SDK in simple terms it means some games will use it this year with the rest coming in 2015 remember it takes about 1 1/2 -2 years to develop a game.Did you all not see GDC obviously not cause u spew same BS they showed that it took them one month to port Forza 5 to dx12 meaning current engines will have no problem using it studios right now are switching over.For devs it makes their jobs easier it uses Esram they way it was designed.To all you arm chair devs tell me how PS4 will stream 6 gigs of data with no Esram?Old engines will look better on PS4 and new engines with parellel programing will look better on XB1

[Jumper09]

You will eat a crow when Uncharted 4 was shown...

[blackout]

Was shown or is shown. Ps4 fans lol. OLD engine.

[Chevalier]

Right because software can't be tailored to a specific system like PS4 that's just crazy talk. Only Xbox One will see improvement by 2015 when DX12 comes out and Sony just won't do anything till then.

So it's basically:

Wait for March NPD --> Failed
Wait for Titanfall because Xbone will move 1-2 million units --> Failed

Wait for E3
Wait for Halo
Wait for Gears
Wait for Fable
Wait for DX12
Wait for Cloud
Wait for secret sauce
Wait for.....
Wait for.....
Wait for.....

[ironmonkey]

Keep hyping the trash id rather wait to see this so called huge jump. My question is what happens when the next big titles end up being a lower resolution on xboxone even after this so called dx12?. Most of the dx12 resource will already be used to create 1080p games and on top of that the cpu has already been overclcocked by ms so its gonna be tight. The ps4 is at stocked clock and 1080p already nothing has been changed keep that in mind.

[marlinfan10]

its amazing how people get attacked for talking about the xbox in a xbox article. more ps fanboys than xbox owners in here

[GodGinrai]

Yup...ALWAYS....I feel like I have to constantly reassure them that when I think an Xbox exclusive is good ( heaven forbid I call it a great game on here! lol), Its just my opinion...I get a sense of insecurity from them. Which is weird considering how well the PS4 is doing.

[blackout]

AMAZING right.

[Skate-AK]

I hope it does. Until then I will be reading through these crazy comments for another 15 months.

[urwifeminder]

I am loving the new box atm if these things are true is great , going by past direct x reveals none have had industry backers quite like this before.

[finito82]

i just care about GAMES quality GAMES on ym next gen console, stop trying to make it complicated.

[g4n]

So M$ is going to release the magical patch AFTER the fact to make the XBONE better then the ps4??? These rumors are getting old; the BONE has more computation with the Wii U now...

[LightDiego]

With the Cloud and DirectX 12, Xbox One is the most powerful device.

[jairusmonillas]

DX12 is good but the only thing it can do to a 40% weaker xbox one is a mere 5% upgrade. You can't download hardware. You can't make a silly weak GPU into a GTX Titan lol.

[GodGinrai]

"DX12 is good but the only thing it can do to a 40% weaker xbox one is a mere 5% upgrade."

Dude....quit pulling numbers out of your ass.

"You can't make a silly weak GPU into a GTX Titan lol"

Lol...who said it would?

Im going to sum this and every other thread like it up in a few sentences:

DEV: DX12 will improve X1 performance.*proceeds to give detailed explanation how it works..never mentioning PS4, during that explanation*

N4g nutjob: "ZOMG!!! here we go! they are now saying its as powerful as hal one(even though they didnt)! You Xbots will believe anything....Secret sauce blah blah blah....conspiracy blah blah blah* Xbox fans say this...xbox fans say that blah blah blah...we got more indies than you blah blah blah your head is in teh clouds blah blah blah"

The words "misinformed" "exaggerate" "conjecture" "insecure"and "childish" spring to mind...Some of you should read back what you type...it like you are responding to comments that are not even made...has this "console war" fucked your heads up THAT much, that you cant even have normal conversation anymore?*yawns*

[Mrveryodd]

Love my xbox as I will love my Ps4 when I buy myself one for Christmas , they will both improve over time. Just look at last gen. All the proof you need.

[combolock]

why is N4G dominated by Sony asskissers? Every good article for the Xbox people say, "I believe it when I see"...but then when Sony hypes up something everybody is like, "AWESOMESAUCE! CANT FUCKING WAIT".

There is a major double standard from people on this site.

[CertifiedGamer]

PS4 is 40% more powerful than the X1 even though I think it's far more than that, even if Direct X12 helps the X1 it would be about a 5-7% power boost to the power which still won't be able to match Sony.

[tuglu_pati]

"rect X12 helps the X1 it would be about a 5-7%"

and you now this for sure because?...

[CertifiedGamer]

I never said it will, if and will are two different things. The point I made was that direct x12 will not give the Xbone any advantage over the PS4 because PS4 will still remain more powerful.

[ITZz-FAN_BOY]

What about cloud ><

[ironmonkey]

even software on a pc fails when you try to hard.

[Gamerita]

they make crappy hardware then try to patch the crap hardware with cheap talk or lets say software. LOL

i will never buy xbone for this very reason,i do not want to be treated as if i'm a FOOL or under age swearing xbox kid. i demand respect.

[josephayal]

me too, i demand respect

[horndog]

Yes there aren't any underage swearing racist kids on the psn. Nope, non at all. Grow the phuck up junior.

[dja1nhb]

Without the software you don't have the hardware

[ChristopherJack]

Wrong way around. Hardware will still exist but will remain redundant. Without the hardware there's no way to utilize the software.

[dja1nhb]

you know what i mean if the correct software is not there the hardware will not function to its best ability dx12 might not be or wont be the answer to make the x1 more powerful than the ps4 but any improvement is a good thing for the x1

[tsn]

With all things to do with MS, ill believe it when I see it.

[ChristopherJack]

Does anyone that comments about how great DX12 really understand that it's just trying to replicate the way consoles function? DX12 will be a minor improvement for XB1, it won't improve the hardware.

[fabiani]

in the end its up to the artists skills.
I did this in 3 days
https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.f...

[Artemidorus]

So many ill educated Sony clowns on this website it's not even funny anymore. Starting to almost believe they want to own an Xbox One coming in here and got to say something stupid.

It's well known Direct X in history offers improvements. It's not going to blow anyones mind but for sure people will understand the difference and see what is and what isn't. The improvements will be more programming realated but will offer more to do with the same hardware.

Microsoft are miles better than Sony in the software department and if Sony wants to be miles ahead then they need to improve the software over time also otherwise Xbox will be on par with it.

No good having slighty better hardware if you haven't got the best software for it to provide what people demand.

[DarkLord1003]

Is it even possible for sony to boost the ps4. Would they need a new Engine like the xbone

[Stoppokingme]

DX12 will obviously close the gap, but not as much as everyone thinks. It will be the games that evens the odds, if the games come.

Power is important but it's not everything, a lot of people seem to forget that the Wii outsold both the PS3 and 360 by a considerable margin, which is not bad for a so called 'casual' console.

[cyber_daemonx]

Here we go again with that DX12 secret sauce bullcrap. Desperate xbots will believe anything lol.

Anyhow it wont make a bean of difference to the gap that really matters, the sales gap. No amount of secret sauce is gonna close that one, period.

[Chucky2003]

Don't believe this crap,DX12 is just another advertising shit made by M$ and enforced by Nvidia and others,OpenGL is where everything should be,if they all worked on OpenGL we wouldn't have to change the damn graphic card every one or two years

[TL24]

Fan boys aside, this is great for both the One and PS4, it'll make the Devs strive to get the best out of each platform and that's a big plus for all us gamers. People need to understand that without competition one does not strive to be the best, competition makes all of us better and the same can be said about this console generation/war.

Can't wait to see what's in store for both platforms!

[blackout]

What i don't understand is that while tech is moving forward that hate continues to expand. Technology is what moves this world forward, embrace whats coming. Sounds like Sony fan want everything to be at a stand still. Well things don't work like that.

[ATi_Elite]

Teh Cloudzzzz = A.I. and some rendering will be it's best use.

ESRAM = needed to speed up slow XB1 ram

Directx 12 = I don't see Devs using this as most games are multiplats and Devs try to stay even on both consoles.

all these things are supposedly going to BOOST the XB1 performance.

Sure but only slightly, the XB1 GPU still sucks and nothing short than a new GPU is gonna fix that.

So all these "things" while nice will not put the XB1 on par with the PS4 as far as performance.

The best bet is to make great use of TEH CLoudzzz for A.I. and rendering.

So specs aside; bring on the games.

[ChiblackHwks]

wow, amazing M$!

[JOEgolferG]

lmao at the people who think a software update will make the Xbone catch up to the PS4's power. Jesus it's the hardware that count's, Xbox will be behind performance wise for the rest of this generation and that is fact!

[player002]

it's guys like you that irk me software is almost as important as hardware ..Iphone 5 does not have the same hardware as a lot of android phones but their software is so clean that it out performs lots of android phones that have better hardware.The PS4 in essence is a mid level gaming PC it was built with current standards in mind now XB1 is built with the future in mind controlling my tv,sound system and cable box.I walk in say XBOX on turns everything on then XBOX watch tv im watching my shows XBOX watch NBC bam im watching NBC if a commercial on and I want to go to N4g XBOX browse to N4G.com sorry but thats next gen.My surround system has all my hdmi inputs plugged in if im playing my PS4 and the volume is to low XBOX volume up surround sound goes up this is awesome and if PS4 users had it for their systems would say the same.Now XB1 was designed for DX12 which is future tech and it has full DX12 which includes tilled resources wwhich is why Esram was put in there yup 6gigs of data streamed on 32megs of Esram tell me that wont make a difference.Tiled resources is no BS although PS4 can do a form of this how are they gunna get extra 6gigs of data with no Esram?The number one argument I hear is XB1 is already to the metal it wont help so wrong ppl yes it is close to the metal but Dx12 brings it closer also all multi core cpu's not just PC have not keep up with changes in tech GPu's have left them behind no matter what system PC or XB1 have not been optimized to use multi cores basically one core does all the work DX12 corrects this using all cores efficiently increasing the performance this is where the 8 core cpu in XB1 will see the biggest boast so although close to the metal it's using one core now use all 8 more power duh .Ps4 can't do this now they just put a job listing for this 3 weeks ago so they just starting now MS took 4 years to make DX12 with Nvidia and AMD's help the number one software company so trust me it will take sony quite a bit of time to do it talking years here also XB1 was heavily modified for Dx12 so software will make it have more power now lets see if in a few years Sony can negate that but to dismiss it all as hog wash is ridiculous and don't call yourself a gamer call yourself a brand loyalist

[player002]

The new generation of gamers are a joke.Nothing wrong with preferring one system over the other but when you start to ignore the competitions improvements it starts to get retarded.All haters keep saying is ya right more PR from MS or why do they keep talking about it.They talk about it cause it is a new programming APi tool which is a big thing yet sony put out a ad 3 weeks ago to fill the lead postion for them to start their own closer to the metal parallel programming yet everyone on this site said yes more power PS4 is awesome SMH.I have all systems XB1,PS4 and a high end pc why cause im a gamer and want all games.DX12 will be good for all gamers yes XB1 and PC benefit but these advancements force sony to improve their own system too .The PS4 adds nothing new it has over the counter gpu the dashboard looks pretty much the same as PS3 most gamers don't like the plain PS4 dash this will force sony to change it for the better aalso XB1 has been improving the system since launch which will also force sony to be more proactive.DX12 is good for gaming why would a true gamer not want tech to move forward ?The fact that big companies like AMD,Intel and Nvidia are all excited and say 2x performance increase yet you all say no shows the maturity of gamers here .When the new engines are revealed and all the nay sayers see it remember we told you so .unbelievable that fanboys think they know more than these companies furthermore why are you guys in here bashing in the first place to you own a XB1 if it's all BS then let us who have the system be hyped by the BS then why come in here when you don't have the system you have a PS4 with the most Powaaaah so why do you care?

[killaarmy]

Sony ponies are on another xbone thread why are you weirdos so but hurt about xbone news go play knack smdh

[larrysdirtydrawss]

system22 + 21h ago

@WHITEY2K: The ps4 cpu is an 8 core, as is the xbox ones, the ps4 runs at a lower clock speed (1.6 ghz) to the xbox ones 1.75 ghz. not a huge difference but the xbox one is capable of offloading processes from the cpu. This free's up the xbox cpu more with the added bonus of the (slightly) higher clock speed.

DirectX 12 will basically make all of this really efficient which will free up the cpu even more with less instruction. This is why I keep saying that you can't just look at charts, do some linear math and come up with "the ps4 is 50% more powerful". its just simply not true. it is more powerful in regard to ram being a bit faster (ddr3 to ddr5) and it has 2 more CU's but the xbox's CU's even though there are 2 less also run at a higher clock speed - independently. so thats clock speed difference is multiplied by x 6 over ps4 which makes that advantage not quite as big as people seem to think. its been referred to as a "marginal" difference. the biggest thing ps4 has going for it is that huge chunk of ddr5 vs xbox's big chunk of dd3 but with 32 mb of eSRAM kinda squeezed in next to the cpu. its an odd size apparently but is getting dealt with on sdk/tool side.

ps4 has a 400% bigger gpgpu,that was heavily utilized by sucker punch.. they can do compute work without effecting graphics one bit,including the 4 specialized cu's. the 4 specialized cu's can do graphics just as good as the other 14 cu's,but also do compute work while doing gpu work at the same time(cerny),you think imfamous would have looked as incredible as it did if those 4 specialized cu's couldnt do graphics the same time as it was doing compute work in a open world game?..ppl,ps4 also has its own audio processor...... imagine what sonys tool wizards have been working on and will have added in the next 2 years to get even more out of the ps4.

[TheKingslayer]

XB1 1080P Games

Dying Light 1080p 60fps (on both consoles)

Madden 25 1080 60fps (on both consoles)

Tomb Raider 1080p 30fps (60 on ps4)

Fifa 14 1080 60fps (on both consoles)

NBA 2K14 1080p 60fps (on both consoles)

NBA LIVE 14 1080p 60fps (on both consoles)

Forza Motorsport 5 1080p 60fps

EA sports UFC game 1080p 30fps (on both consoles)

NFS RIVALS 1080p 30fps(on both consoles)

Wolfenstein 1080p 60fps (on both consoles)

Murdered Souls Suspect 1080p 60fps (on both consoles)

Sniper Elite 3 1080p 60fps (on both consoles)

[purp13m0nk3y]

Now list all the games that run better on the Xbox1 than the PS4. Oh wait........ They don't exist.

Or

List the games that run at sub 1080p on the PS4. Ummm BF4. Thats it. Everything else is at least 1080p 30fps. Often better.

It is easier to list the games that DO run at 1080p on the Xbox1. Because the list of ones that DON'T is as long as my arm.

Every single multi plat released to date performs better on PS4. This will always be the case. Software will never change this. NEVER!

PS4 hardware >>>>>> Xbox1 hardware. But somehow a software update will negate the difference!?? What a fk'n joke.

Parity between consoles this gen WILL NEVER EXIST. Ffs people, move on.