Navigation Controller for Kinect?

Kudo Tsunoda recently stated that Kinect will be able to use a controller in conjunction with Kinect's camera capabilities. We take a look at some ways it would work, and how it might truly make Kinect a must-have peripheral for core and casual gamers alike. We've got plenty of pictures and concepts as well.

Is a controller or navigation controller even needed for Kinect?

[Pedobear Rocks]

for months...by E3 2011 MS will drop the 'you are a controller' mantra and issue remotes...

Your price of play just went to $230 for two players too (Kinect plus 2 40$ wands)

[guru9535]

agreed, but you will probably be able to use the regular xbox controller too.

[Joule]

Sounds like their revolutionary device wont be so revolutionary.

[Hellsvacancy]

Lol

[DatNJDom81]

First Eyetoy, now Move? Next, they will try to copy PS3. m$ sure knows how to innovate.

[FragMnTagM]

Kudo was referring to the 360 controller being used in conjunction with the Kinect, not a wand like the Move.

You guys on here really need to learn how to make sense out of words. What part of YOU ARE THE CONTROLLER don't people get. The games that are aimed at the Wii crowd are going to be controller FREE! The games that are hardcore and may use Kinect in one way or another will be mostly regular controller. Not too hard to figure out. This article just blabbers on and on with nonsensical BS just for some hits.

@jwk94
And why not? If the majority of the games, which are aimed at the Wii crowd are controller free, how is it not controller free? Please enlighten me. They have said from the very beginning that the controller will compliment the Kinect for hardcore gamers. You guys are trying so damn hard to push your thoughts and opinions on everyone else that you just sound like a broken record.

[jwk94]

It's not "you are the controller" if im using a controller with the thing.

[commodore64]

I smell ps3 fanboy bs

[Heartnet]

Even if hardcore games did use kinect it would have to be in some minute way that it is pointless to even use since not every1 has £130 to spend on an accesory that is aimed at a casual audience

[LostDjinn]

"I smell ps3 fanboy bs"

You sure that's not just your breath blowin' back in your face commodore?

[TheBlackSmoke]

.... so its a PS move...?

[Biggest]

No way, dude! The Move is a copy and the Kinect is TOTALLY revolutionary. Didn't you get the memo?

[maxcer]

@ DatNJDom81

yup just like sony copied achievements, netflix, the guide button, and facebook.

whats next out of your mouth? MS stole the concept of multiplayer gaming from the PC? i swear the people here are getting dumber by the day.

[Motorola]

Sony copied Netflix ^^ LOL you serious??? Xbox copied the Mailbox then. and the Home button was on the PSP...nice try though.

[InfectedDK]

El Jugador, yes it will. Justin Bieber says so!

[ChronoJoe]

What? you speak of Kinect games not aimed at the 'Wii crowd', where are they?

[DatNJDom81]

....................you sound butthurt man.............. your alright?

[Cloudberry]

.
I assume it's a combination between XBOX regular controller + Kinect.

Still...

*SHRUG*

[guru9535]

@cloudberry:

obviously you did not even read the full story.....

no offense, and don't take this the wrong way, but people like you should not even bother commenting.

[DeadIIIRed]

Valid point, but some of us do work in offices with firewalls.

[yippiechicken]

GET BACK TO WORK BEFORE I FIRE YOUR LAZY ASS!!!

:)

[Mike134nl]

... It was known from the very beginning/start that Kinect would be compatible with the xbox 360 controller.
Sub-controller is of course possible but considering the kinect price point and microsoft marketing focus on controler free gaming this won't happen unless a third party decides to include a sub controller to the kinect system.

[wat634]

@frag - thanks for clearing it up here.

[FragMnTagM]

Reading headlines and jumping to conclusions is about all that happens around here. We have a few clever people on here but the vast majority are brainless and spout nonsensical fanboy bs.

I don't understand how "it could work with a controller," turned into MICROSOFT IS RELEASING A WAND CONTROLLER!

[tinybigman]

this would defeat the purpose of that line you've been shoving down our throats. if sony did this and realized it didnt work out you should have known this from the beginning too.

if we're suppose to be the controls NOTHING should be used in conjunction with kinect.

[tinybigman]

disagree all you want, but when the company is pushing that you're suppose to be the controller NO other controller should be used in conjunction with kinect. if you believe otherwise your a hypocrite.

looks like i hurt some peoples feelings with the truth. shame people are so easily fooled this generation.

[shadyiswin]

Are you people really serious? I can understand the confusion at first....actually no I can't. He (Kudo) was simply stating he didn't understand the whole you need buttons push from sony when the kinect can work in conjunction with a standard xbox controller. Very simple, a few people with common sense have stated this and yet 90% of the tards here are bitching about microsoft going back on it's word, the same people who don't plan on getting a Kinect in the first place lol. I can't wait for microsoft to destroy sony this holiday it will be epic. Also lol'ing at the agrees and disagrees, you sony fanboys are damn afraid lol and you should be.

[raztad]

"Kudo was referring to the 360 controller being used in conjunction with the Kinect"

I dont understand this. Ca you elaborate how is different to using MOVE with EyeToy? Isnt it for gaming? only multimedia? I really dont get it.

[Bigpappy]

M$ as always said that developer can use Kinect to enhance controller based games-- where Kinect could be used as an option along with the controller. Kinect based games will be made from the ground up to use kinect but developers could do what ever they want with their games.

[Biggest]

And here I was thinking that "You Are the Controller!" meant that you are the controller. What they really meant was "Followers, please LOL at the Move and call it a Wii-clone, but when we release our EyeToy/Wii/Move clone we would like for you to "knew it all along!"

[ico92]

this really contradicts the concept of Kinect, Controller free gaming my a$$

[Moonboots]

"You guys on here really need to learn how to make sense out of words."

LMAO! Soooo funny and sooo true.. A site makes something up and suddenly it's a directive from Microsoft. I can only guess people choose to turn their brain off just so they can yet again troll.

[PS360fanboy]

@DatNJDom81

Copying the Move? I hope you're being ironic and not just plain dumb.

[xYLeinen]

So in the VERY end there will probably be a controller specific for Kinect. Microsoft you fu**** hypocrites!!!

[MorganX]

What's the hypocrisy? It doesn't need a controller, why not add the option for when it's appropriate.

I'm not getting a Kinect but I am interested in navigation without controllers. If you're going to use a controller to navigate with motion, just use the controller.

But, if it can also use a controller for gun peripherals or something, why not?

Casuals go nuts over jumping around handsfree, hardcore gamers may want some buttons. Give them all what they want. What's the problem?

[xYLeinen]

Yea sure, but that is not the point.

Microsoft has STRESSED that Kinect is a controller free hardware, and it's something brand new that the industry haven't seen before. Making a controller with this doesn't make Kinect different from the Eye Toy or w/e the ps3 got.

Basically they are saying, yea we are releasing a controller as well to support Kinect because all games CAN'T be played with only using Kinect.

[MorganX]

Did they ever say that "all games" CAN be played only using Kinect?

[The Wood]

without a controller.

ef all this 'you are the controller crap'. Anybody with half a brain could see Natal needed a dedicated controller to open up more game genre's as without one its limited. If it doesn't then say bye bye to 90% of the wii games made by 3rd party studios that will now probably be making their way to the ps Move. Anybody who says, 'it doesnt need it' then laud it when they do eventually release it is a bloody hypocrite and im calling em out from now because its inevitable. Just like rumble on the dual shock just like hdmi, 1080p, whatever

[raztad]

MS is aware controller-less Kinect is a technical failure. I think they plan to sell as many of them as they can (thats why the incredible marketing) and then release a controller to "enhance" the controller-less experience.

[TheBlackSmoke]

This is pretty much what everybody who's not drinking the jesus juice has been saying from the start. Even if kinect could track 1:1 it still would not be any use unless you could do multiple actions at once, which just isn't possible hence why nintendo and sony passed on this tech.

[Bigpappy]

M$ has taken Kinect to the masses like no other product has done before. They had them setup in malls and non-gaming stores, even toured city to city. Is it a technical failure becuase they didn't tac it on to "Halo: Reach"? You sound very bitter about a successful add-on. Just because Sony did know how to make it work doesn't mean no one else can. Whatch and weep some more as M$ sell Millions of these things for years to come.

You don't normally troll this hard "raztad". Whats the matter man?

[raztad]

@BigPapy

I'm not trying to. Kinect and EyeToy share the same concepts, and are suitable for the same type of games. The difference is Kinect has a 500m marketing behind it and so far it hasnt proven to be functional and reliable. Its actually lame you are supporting that device just because MS will sell Millions.

If a controller to "enhance" Kinect control-less is added at some point, this Kinect thing will prove to be the a massive scam.

[Bigpappy]

They will fine themselfs in the same boat as Sony is in with the Move. The casuals will stay with the wii. M$ is going after casuals and people who nomally would not play Video Game. I have family and friends that will sit and watch me play for a good few hours, but there is no way they would touch a controller. My sister is a mom with kids, who is into fitness and likes to dance. She is about to buy a 360 with Kinect after complaining that her son spends too much time on his.

M$ is making this thing work. You guy are making these remarks based on what you preceive Kinect to be based on Eyetoy. There is quite a bit of evedence that there are 2 different animals. Eyetoy is a 2D web cam with cam with some software. Kinect is a 3D web cam with a IR projector, and a cmos IR camera for sensing depth base on the IR feed back. The main chip in Kinect is that developed by Primesense (so you can look it up).
That is just the hardware. The bigest difference in how kinect works is the software. Developer have said that M$ is constanly updating the software to eliminate flaws and complaints they fine to keep refining Kinect. It has the same voice software tech found in M$ sync system and in Bing only with added noise elimination features.

How is that a technical failure.

[The Wood]

wake me up when you can show me games that havent been done on the eyetoy. Im not gunna call anything a failure but ive seen nothing other than rail or dance/fitness games. If that's good for you then fine but I don't have to BS myself to think that the rails games Ive seen appeal to me. I couldn't give a crap what it sells if the games are crap either.

Without an input device NOT the hyped 'scan anything' natal concept Kinect will be limited to a very casual level of games. How anybody can feel that having something that adds to the overall performance results in a minus is just beyond dumb. Ill see the 'you are the controller' thing for what it is and thats pr hype. You think ill be annoyed if MS do a u turn if the experience is better in the long run with something they said they didint??? Yes they'll get stick just like sony did with the rumble but the gamers won even though many had to fork out more money on the DS3's the gaming experience was improved. Some people have blind faith even when they've seen nothing to justify that said faith. Even the casual games look glitchy at the moment so how much improvement are people really expecting. MS themselves had to fake shows, distract with elephants and use teen idols to push kinect like narcotics.

[Imperator]

My god are you blind Big Pappy? He's not saying it's a commercial failure, he's saying it's a TECHNICAL failure. The damn thing doesn't even work right! The tech does not function. You get that now?

And why does it selling make YOU happy? Unless you're a stock holder, it's the last thing you should think about.

[ULTIMATE_REVENGE]

Anyone who's bashing Kinect's price is just a deluded ignorant idiot, you might want to check Kinect's spec sheets before you bash it. The PS-Eye is incredibly limited and if MS do announce this then it's going to cause a whole lot of trouble for Sony and the PS-Move.

I'm a PS3 fan and not a 360 fanboy, but I'm also not an ignorant deluded blind fanboy like the Sony loyalists that run this site. The technology used in Kinect has lots of potential if it's used properly.

[PirateThom]

Have you actually used Kinect?

Let me tell you straight off, you're paying a premium to pay Eye Toy games.

[maxcer]

and your paying a premium to play wii games what the difference?

[TheBlackSmoke]

The difference is that even the most budget, pos, shovelware, liscenced BS game on wii has deeper control and gameplay than anything on kinect. If you strip away all the shovelware on wii there still is an big catalogue of highly impressive and fullfilling hardcore centric games.

What you should be really focusing on is that M$ sold you the lie that this was the next step in video games, "controller less gaming is the future", "be the controller", "almost like a new console release".

Fast forward and now we know Milo was nothing more than BS, there are no core experiences and instead we have been given an premium eyetoy in its place.

[shadyiswin]

It's no different than my webcam at home using many cam, I can wave and it will recognize it, but it's not tracking movements in 3d. It can do facial recognition but limited to telling you where your eyes are. Kinect can judge you by your actual face, hair length, body width and so on. There's a reason it didn't sell, sony knew it was limited, they never even pushed it lol. Kinect is a webcam, thats the only similarities, even if kinect was an eye toy, with this support the eye toy could of been a must buy....obviously it wasn't.

[N4Great]

Poor delusional fanboy shadysim (and some others), first eye toy sold very well on ps2, and now with move, you can do all kienct can do, and muche more, with accuracy, and real games !

so please, go back to your cave with vgchartz and npd "books"(only the few the good months), you are not a gamer.

[jneul]

you do realise kinect only runs at 30fps, even if it gets a controller similar to move it still will be nowhere near as good as move due to the fps it runs at, it has nothing to do with being able to track in true 3-d

[gamingdroid]

I've used it and had a lot of fun. Every technology has some limitation, and it is more matter of using it's strength than it's weakness.

Have you guys used Kinect? You know, especially since you are all criticizing it before release?

[PirateThom]

I played Kinect for a good 20 minutes on Saturday, in a store, with a Microsoft rep.

Here's my full "hands on" with Kinect Adventure:

Finally managed to play Kinect earlier, Kinect Adventure to be precise (and I got a Gold for the level I played, before anyone says I wasn't putting effort in).

Firstly, the tracking is accurate, but definitely has noticable lag. It's not major, but it is distracting when you're trying to do certain things. It was impressed when I was moving my arms in... let's say, less than natural ways and it could keep up and the ability to go two player just by standing beside the other player and the screen spliting depending on the side you stand on is impressive.

You need a HELL of a lot of room to actually play the game properly though.

The bad news is the game was little more than, as I predicted, a gloried Eye Toy game. Move your arms, move around, jump. It has been done before.

Overall, it does sort of work with the software, but the software all seems to be too focused on mini-games and casual games. I would definitely like to see someone give a proper try at a Core title using SOLELY Kinect controls to really test the thing.

[TheBlackSmoke]

Interesting review.

So its as I suspected, does enough to best an eyetoy but in the end it cannot surpass even wii level's casual controls....so what's the point then?

eidit: there's just no way it could do a core title, even if it tracked perfectly how are going to implement multiple commands within split seconds of eachother when your body cant even move fast enough?

I think in terms of Hardcore games all we will see are kinect versions of hardcore franchises with gameplay stripped back to such a primitive state (on-rails shooters forever) that there is no enjoyment unless you are casual..which defeats the whole purpose.

[gamingdroid]

Thanks for the review.

I did experience some lag when I tried it myself. There were also perceived lag in the sprint game on Sports Champion. If you start off running fast, the avatar slowly gains speed. This isn't lag per se because of the Kinect, but rather software implementation which also suggest you can design software that has lag, but isn't perceived as lag.

However, Kinect definitely had lag. Then again I did feel lag in PS Move as well which is as good as its going to get with motion control in the foreseeable future.

The software so far of what I have seen is very similar to Wii, but functions very differently. For instance, in the sprint game in Sports Champion you can't just waggle your controller and have your avatar run. You have to physically move. In my opinion it is much more immersive than the Wii.

"The bad news is the game was little more than, as I predicted, a gloried Eye Toy game. Move your arms, move around, jump. It has been done before."

I think that is a little unfair to say, because I could say the same about any controller scheme out there today:

- Move the stick/d-pad in a few directions and push a few buttons i.e. regular controller in every game.
- Move the PS Move wand around/Wii Mote around and push a few buttons i.e. motion gaming today.
- Move your body and jump i.e. Kinect.

Note the common link, the two top are more similar than the bottom one!

[N4Great]

"Then again I did feel lag in PS Move as well which is as good as its going to get with motion control in the foreseeable future. "

only in your fanboy's dream, or because of a bad tv set !

1:1 and no lag, it's a fact (and you have hundred of good reviews to prove that)

[gamingdroid]

It definitely had lag, especially noticeable in Ruse.

Either you didn't try a game that had lag or your a freaken liar!

[yewles1]

Have YOU checked the specs of Kinect? It's inferior in almost every single way to the PSEye.

[Crapple]

Haha, are you kidding? Is this really how ignorant people are of Kinect? The device with a 3D Depth sensor and bundled full body tracking is inferior in every way to a standard RGB webcam? Let's make one thing clear -- PSEye as a RGB camera is superior to Kinect's RGB camera. Same resolution, but better framerate. But Kinect only uses it's RGB camera currently for taking pictures and video, and for overlaying your body image over the raw depth data if necessary. The PSEye as technology, is a simple side dish on Kinect. Kinects core technology is an IR projector coupled with a 3D depth sensor, and it is indisputably 100% superior to the PSEye in just about every way for tracking the human body to an accurate degree in 3D. If you disagree, you're only lying to yourself.

[MorganX]

Then you and Sony have nothing to worry about.

[Time_Is_On_My_Side]

Most people that I know say it's the same because of the lack of the controller, whether it's 3D, 6D, or 20D you're still limited to what you can do unless they overcome the limitations of a controller free design?

For example driving, I know they have shown this, but how do you accelerate, shift gears, look around especially the rear. If they even do find a way, it won’t be as precise or accurate as a controller with buttons on it. Some games incorporate flying like Halo Reach, how can that be represented while still maintaining communication with your online teammates by not shouting out commands?

[TheBlackSmoke]

Yes kinect is better tech than eyetoy, the problem is, that it has not shown us anything the eyetoy can't already do. Even if it tracks better it will never be anywhere near as playable as even a wii so in essence it is just a better eye toy, hence the scepticism.

[ULTIMATE_REVENGE]

Then that isn't Kinects fault is it? it's the developers who aren't really doing much with it. I personally think that MS have to make a controller that works with Kinect for more precise input.

Who gives a crap about their "you are the controller" slogan BS, just make a god dam kinect controller MS!

[divideby0]

you knew this was coming and when the games come out and this works.... my interest is more now

[plb]

Kinect still requires a good deal of processing power from the Xbox since MS cut costs on the original design so don't expect any titles with great graphics. Hence all Kinect games looking somewhat Wiish.

[FragMnTagM]

The games I have seen look really good. I have a Wii and nothing on it even comes close to the graphics I have seen on the Kinect games. Good try, but your trolling fails.

[Heartnet]

you really are a trollin fanboy lol.. Kinect games use crappy cartoony avatars graphics which are very similar to the Nintendo Wii's Graphics.

And no the games u have seen do not look realling good.. Take Deca Sports and Kinect Adventures for instance.

[Crapple]

A "good deal"? Care to back that up with any kind of evidence? Developers have actually said that it doesn't take that much. Kinect support was easily added to Forza, and games like Kinectimals look great. Even something as simple as Kinect Adventures looks far superior to any Wii game. It's in HD for a start. Don't mistake a cartoony art style for a technically limited graphics engine.