Top
680°

Microsoft Teases "Big" E3 Announcements for Xbox One System Software; New Patch Launched in Preview

Microsoft announced the features of the June update of the Xbox One system software for preview members yesterday, but the first patch is somewhat smaller, as indicated by the full patch notes released in the private preview forums.

Program Manager Emily Hanson also mentioned something interesting in the private preview forums, teasing something "*BIG*" coming at E3.

Read Full Story >>
dualshockers.com
The story is too old to be commented.
gangsta_red936d ago

Xbox 360 BC through emulation! I'm calling it now!

mkis007936d ago

I'm guessing it will go right alongside the windows 10 preview.

darthv72936d ago

I'd like to see them patch in direct playback from the disc as an option like how the 360 has the option for installs.

MrSec84936d ago (Edited 936d ago )

You can't patch in a feature that the architecture is inherently incapable of handling.
How X86 runs code is fundamentally different than how RISC does.

XB1 is X86/CISC in design, 360 is RISC.
Then there are the issues of vendors for the CPU design, IBM designed the PPC Cores of 360, AMD designed the Jaguar Cores in XB1.

There's also the issue of clock speed differences of the CPUs.

The "Something Big" for the system software is probably some other user feature that MS considers a big deal for XB1 owners or potential new gamers.

At this point the only ways that 360 games could run on XB1 is if MS basically patched every single 360 game, with an update to change all of those titles to run on X86 and optimize them all for XB1 or use a system similar to PS Now, which they were testing some time ago.
Other than that maybe some dongle, with a 360 chipset, that would handle the processing locally, but would require extra cost, probably a fraction of the price of a new 360 Slim.

A single software update, with some emulation environment isn't even remotely likely, unless XB1 was always designed with a 360 chipset built in. In which case they've basically been holding back XB1 from having BC all this time, very unlikely and would cause nothing but a hold load of backlash for Microsoft from the media and gaming public.

BattleAxe936d ago (Edited 936d ago )

^^^

It's no different than upgrading from Windows XP to Windows Vista, Windows 7 or Windows 8, changing your CPU, changing your GPU and upgrading your Memory and even upgrading to a new motherboard all together, which has an entirely different architecture.

People do this all the time on PC, and then they update their GPU with the latest firmware, and they're able to play 99.9% of all their old PC games going more than 20 years back.

There's no reason why Microsoft couldn't do this with the Xbox One, especially since the 360 and Xbox One are based on a fairly standard PC architecture. It's a bigger problem for Sony to patch in backwards compatibility since the PS3 has is own unique proprietary architecture with the cell processor.

WolvesDude935d ago

^^^
@BattleAxe

"There's no reason why Microsoft couldn't do this with the Xbox One, especially since the 360 and Xbox One are based on a fairly standard PC architecture. It's a bigger problem for Sony to patch in backwards compatibility since the PS3 has is own unique proprietary architecture with the cell processor."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

"Microsoft XCPU, codenamed Xenon, is a CPU used in the Xbox 360 game console, to be used with ATI's Xenos graphics chip.

The processor is based on IBM PowerPC instruction set architecture. It consists of three independent processor cores on a single die. These cores are slightly modified versions of the PPE in the Cell processor used on the PlayStation 3."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

The Xbox 360 is not based on "fairly standard PC architecture" at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 935d ago
holysmokesbatman936d ago

I don't think so dude! BUT I'd be over the moon if you're right!

bleedsoe9mm936d ago

that would be bigger than big , emulation would be the earth killing nuke .

RosweeSon936d ago

Would have been good a year or so ago, now that we're nearly 2 years into this new generation I want new experiences rather than playing old games due to nothing else to play, a few classics are always welcomed but Microsoft need to start making some classics rather than looking backwards most of their stuff is 3rd party anyway.

gangsta_red936d ago

Yea, I doubt this would be it too. But it would be a megaton if true.

Eonjay936d ago

Well, its technically not possible for the PS4 or the Xbox One to emulate last gen, but the original Xbox may be possible... upscale of course.

Dudebro90936d ago

Uh emulation is totally possible...

You can program a computer to emulate pretty much anything.

Eonjay936d ago

@Dudebro90

Okay its mainly the CPUs that make this an impossible task. Last gen consoles had monster CPUs compared to this gen.

Bigpappy936d ago (Edited 936d ago )

X1 CPU is more than capable of running 360 games. 360 CPU might have had a higher clock, but only had 3 cores. The X1 CUP had 8. With DX12, those 8 core more than make up or any slight reduction in clock speed.

The emulator shouldn't be difficult for 360, but PS3's Cell processor is a whole different beast.

I don't expect an emulator though, maybe just Win10 preview released at E3.

dcbronco936d ago

@Eonjay

Isn't the Xbox OS a hypervisor running a game OS. Isn't it based on Windows 10 or the Server 2012 or NT kernel. Both of which would run on a RISC processor. And hasn't Microsoft figured out how to make NVIDIA and AMD GPU architectures work together in one machine. Hasn't Microsoft been working on languages that allow completely different kinds of computer systems communicate seamlessly. Doesn't Xbox One have 8gbs of embedded memory for it's OS that hasn't been completely explained. I'm not sure there is any reason Xbox One can't run 360 and original Xbox games.

#sorryaboutthelackofquestionm arks

darthv72936d ago

It seems logical that both the CPU and the GPU of the 360 can be emulated by the CPU and GPU of the XB1.

TheCommentator936d ago (Edited 936d ago )

360 has 9.6ghz across 3 cores(1 of those was used primarily for audio), while XB1 has 14ghz across 8 cores and a dedicated audio chip. 360 BC might be pssile, but the emulators do have to soak up some of the CPU bandwidth.

PS3 has 22.4ghz across 7 cores, versus 12.8ghz in the 8 cores of the PS4 CPU. It's not possible in this instance to run PS3 BC on PS4.

Eonjay936d ago (Edited 936d ago )

Guys... how in the hell are you going to get the Xbox One's 1.75GHz CPU to emulate the Xbox 360's 3.2GHz?

TheCommentator936d ago

Here's a hypothesis. DX12 can use the cores in parallel. 2 cores is 3.5ghz so if they can be told to work together at the same task, they may be able to emulate the function of one core from 360. I don't know enough about this subject to be sure if this is even possible.

rainslacker936d ago (Edited 936d ago )

Sigh

OK, to keep it simple. RISC actually has more instructions available to it than CISC processors do. I know it seems counter-intuitive, but the reduced instrcution set in RISC means that RISC actually can achieve more per instruction, thus needed fewer instruction to execute the same ammount of code. However, there is more overhead in a RISC architecture.

What this means, is that when you run it on CISC, time is wasted on CPU, and multiple instructions have to be broken up and run in sequence to derive a result. This ultimately slows down a CISC processor significantly, as it could take 2-4 cycles to complete a RISC instruction before the next RISC instruction can be broken down to run. In addition, some instructions have to be converted to get a proper result from a CISC processor, because some isntructions simply don't exist on the CISC processor.

I know it doesn't seem like much, but when you're talking about chips which can run billions of instructions per second, it adds up to just being slow without a processor which is orders of magnitude faster than the processor it's trying to emulate. Unfortunately, the CPU's in the new systems ARE NOT orders of magnitude faster, and at most they are maybe twice as fast as last gen.

All this splitting up stuff between cores, trying to say that since the cores are faster or because they're more of them, is not how processors work. What this effectively does is makes a non multi-threading instruction set into a multi-threaded instruction set, and that can't be done natively with enough speed, and actually introduces more work for the CPU to handle before it even gets to the instruction set to begin with. Everything that I see suggested or speculated on is just adding more work onto the processor which would already be taxed with the emulation software.

rainslacker936d ago

@DC

Yes, the Xbox runs on a hypervisor. However the games do not run off the OS. The hypervisor allows for access to the OS from the game, but otherwise, games are built directly to the system. Even DX12 code is built directly into the game, and doesn't require input from the OS to operate. This is why consoles have an advantage, and even PC's will not have this advantage when DX12 releases on Win10.

Windows Server, XP, NT, and all current versions of windows can work on RISC or CISC processors. This does not mean that all the software that is made for windows can. There are different Kernels for the RISC and CISC versions of windows, and if software is compatible between the two architectures it's because it either works on a framework, or there is a emulation algorithm within Windows, not unlike a virtual OS, or the developer has 2 different versions of the program to accomadate it(rare outside server/productivity stuff). However, ones that work off emulation tend to be slow and laggy as they require emulation of the actual OS environment as well.

Games themselves run on their own build, so any game which would work under emulation would require an update to work on the new hardware, and publishers aren't going to bother doing that.

The language you're talking about is a framework. Frameworks have been around for quite some time, and MS even has a very robust one in .NET. Java is another framework. However, games are not built on frameworks, because frameworks add a level of abstraction to the coding process which removes the hardware from the equation for the developer. This isn't suitable for games because it's just too slow, and it's not an answer for emulating software.

The 8GB of memory you're talking about is a static RAM, kind of like the memory in a smart phone. It is not high speed system memory. It is believed to exist for the purpose of page swapping and suspending games to quickly resume them. It may be used as a virtual memory, but it isn't suitable for running a game, or even an app.

I think it'd be awesome for Xbox to offer 360 BC, but for all the spectulation I see in these responses, none of it actually holds up to how computers work. It's wishful thinking.

OG Xbox may be possible, as the original was a x86 processor.

Think of it this way. The PS brand, up to the PS3(original launch versions) had full BC. They achieved this through the inclusion of prior gen hardware in the consoles. If software emulation were possible, they wouldn't have needed to do this. The CPU in the PS1, PS2, and PS3 were all RISC processors, yet they couldn't emulate the prior gens software. PS3 could do PS1 through emulation, but it was orders of magnitude faster than the PS1, and the GPU was substantially faster. That's just not the case from last gen to this gen

XanderZane936d ago

Kind of amazing how all 4 Halo games ended up on the XB1 though. Gears of War is coming as well. E3 is going to be fun though.

+ Show (8) more repliesLast reply 936d ago
LackTrue4K936d ago

More like a "PlayStation NOW" type of XboxOne service....

magiciandude936d ago

I really hope not, but that is more likely.

936d ago
TheCommentator936d ago

XBL Platinum: $5 extra per month to play any Xbox or 360 game you own, processed and streamed from the cloud as long as the disc is in the machine.

Plus, streaming game rentals to play games you don't own from any generation could be implemented at that point too.

Dario_DC936d ago

Don't know why people hate playstation now so much?!?! Seriously, if you have kids this is awesome! Hundreds of games for a few bucks a month! The kids can play tons of games anytime they want.
Xbox should do the same.

meche334936d ago

i bet it's gonna be cheaper too psnow is expensive af

andibandit935d ago

@dario_dc

"if you have kids..."

You kinda of answered your own question, I get your point, but I believe most people on this site dont have kids yet.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 935d ago
Wikkid666936d ago

Going to Xbox 360 streaming... not emulation. Why do you think out of the blue they added extra hdd support.

Rookie_Monster936d ago

Wrong...streaming don't require extra space as the data is just streaming from servers. On the other hand, if XBOX 360 games were indeed BC on XB1, the data from X360 disc will be downloaded and store on the external HDD. It makes perfect sense.

Wikkid666936d ago

@Rookie

You totally would need extra storage. Games would have to be installed on the Xbox 360 hdd to stream. Just like the XBO streaming coming.

TheCommentator936d ago

Streaming does not require storage. If you had to store the data it would be called downloading. Also, you don't stream from your hard drive. You remotely access the information from another source.

Wikkid666932d ago

@TheCommentator

It does require storage. Storage isn't on the pc or XBO. It is required on the X360 since it will be the source and you will need to have the game on the hhd.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 932d ago
Dlacy13g936d ago

I would love to see if nothing else your old digital library be emulated.

gangsta_red936d ago

I have been saying this for the longest time. I would love for the "cloud" to take your 360 digital library and upload it so you could play it from your Xbox One.

I have a lot of digital games and with 360 Games with Gold it's only getting bigger.

rainslacker936d ago

Streaming would be the more likely scenario for BC. There isn't a lot of monetary incentive for console makers to provide this for free, and it may actually be quite costly to provide the service. In addition, publishers would have to agree to it, since MS would be running the software, and not the actual user.

Hardware BC in other systems got around this by simply including the hardware, or emulation software required, and I doubt publishers cared that much since they weren't really interested in making money off those anymore.

But the landscape has changed, and now there is money to be had in streaming content. PSNow allows publishers to make money off of their old content in some way, so it's a no-brainer for them. But they wouldn't make anything off streaming an old purchased game, and they may be more interested in re-selling the game.

If it becomes available where you can buy 360 games and play them on the X1, and MS provides a store-front for those games, then BC may come with it, because publishers may just be willing to keep some good will among their consumers.

Not sure if Sony allows for streaming already purchased content from their PS3 store, I believe they do, so it's possible that MS could offer it as well. OTOH, I'm not too familiar with PSNow to know what features it offers in this regard.

diehardmetallicafans936d ago

you'll still have crappy looking games to play, and they wont do it when a gears remaster is on the way.

936d ago
JasonKCK936d ago

If MS were to include BC, then it would explain why Phil Spencer wants to distance Xbox from remasters.

rainslacker936d ago

Not really. Publishers don't make money off BC. They make money off remasters. I think Phil wants to distance the Xbox brand from it because there are some negative perceptions to the concept of remasters floating around.

I also think that maybe his quote was taken a bit out of context. I think he wasn't opposed to remasters, just that he wanted to stress that he was more interested in new content than trying to remake every game some people claim to want a remaster for. That makes sense to me because not all remasters are financially viable.

RobLoPR935d ago

Im hoping for that also... Games with Gold is gonna be awesome!!

+ Show (10) more repliesLast reply 932d ago
Eonjay936d ago

My guess would be a first look at Windows 10 on Xbox One.

MasterBaker936d ago

Phil spencer already said that it will be post summer, so I doubt it. But I do think it's a big update that will add many new and old features that we've been asking for.

bleedsoe9mm936d ago

that would make allot of sense to preview it on xb1 and win10 and more on the interaction , good way to sneak in some win10 news without making the games games games crowd mad .

Eonjay936d ago

Why not? Im just interested to see the interface. You know, in comparison to the Live Tile interface.

kreate936d ago

I really really dont want another windows. Give us a few more years or something.

I dont want to risk it just for a look at the interface.

Thats just me though.

MasterCornholio936d ago (Edited 936d ago )

That seems probable to me.

But it could also be Tomb Raider becoming a permanent exclusive if the rumors are correct.

I'm expecting something big from all three of them.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 936d ago
Moldiver936d ago

I dunno what it is. But my xbox is ready!

_LarZen_936d ago

X360 backward compatibility would be a game changer. And the option to not only stream XBO games to Windows 10. But also the other way would be really cool.

These two things would put some serious heat on the competition.

Moldiver936d ago (Edited 936d ago )

"X360 backward compatibility would be a game changer. And the option to not only stream XBO games to Windows 10. But also the other way would be really cool."

This would be amazing. I would love to able to play all my x360 arcade games on X1. Then I wouldnt have to turn the X360 on anymore. And game streaming from PC to xbox would be awesome.

Does anybody know if W10 and Xbox gamerscores are unified? that would be killer.

@JJShredder

"Partnership with Steam and native support on an Xbox one?

That would be a killer feature to let people play an entire PC library on the console. "

This needs to happen too! The xbox would be a steam machine as well as an xbox. sort of...

rpgenius420936d ago

Yea your gamerscore is unified between windows phone Xbox and windows8/10. Some games like halo Spartan assault can be played and your progress is saved across all platforms.

oSHINSAo936d ago

So, pretty much the Steam App ?? imagine that, they already working together with Valve to add Features of the Xbox app on Steam like Recording for example.

936d ago
JJShredder936d ago

Partnership with Steam and native support on an Xbox one?

That would be a killer feature to let people play an entire PC library on the console.

I already have a GTX980-based rig but that would be right nice for those who don't want to build one.

936d ago