Microsoft Teases "Big" E3 Announcements for Xbox One System Software; New Patch Launched in Preview

Microsoft announced the features of the June update of the Xbox One system software for preview members yesterday, but the first patch is somewhat smaller, as indicated by the full patch notes released in the private preview forums.

Program Manager Emily Hanson also mentioned something interesting in the private preview forums, teasing something "*BIG*" coming at E3.

[gangsta_red]

Xbox 360 BC through emulation! I'm calling it now!

[mkis007]

I'm guessing it will go right alongside the windows 10 preview.

[darthv72]

I'd like to see them patch in direct playback from the disc as an option like how the 360 has the option for installs.

[MrSec84]

You can't patch in a feature that the architecture is inherently incapable of handling.
How X86 runs code is fundamentally different than how RISC does.

XB1 is X86/CISC in design, 360 is RISC.
Then there are the issues of vendors for the CPU design, IBM designed the PPC Cores of 360, AMD designed the Jaguar Cores in XB1.

There's also the issue of clock speed differences of the CPUs.

The "Something Big" for the system software is probably some other user feature that MS considers a big deal for XB1 owners or potential new gamers.

At this point the only ways that 360 games could run on XB1 is if MS basically patched every single 360 game, with an update to change all of those titles to run on X86 and optimize them all for XB1 or use a system similar to PS Now, which they were testing some time ago.
Other than that maybe some dongle, with a 360 chipset, that would handle the processing locally, but would require extra cost, probably a fraction of the price of a new 360 Slim.

A single software update, with some emulation environment isn't even remotely likely, unless XB1 was always designed with a 360 chipset built in. In which case they've basically been holding back XB1 from having BC all this time, very unlikely and would cause nothing but a hold load of backlash for Microsoft from the media and gaming public.

[BattleAxe]

^^^

It's no different than upgrading from Windows XP to Windows Vista, Windows 7 or Windows 8, changing your CPU, changing your GPU and upgrading your Memory and even upgrading to a new motherboard all together, which has an entirely different architecture.

People do this all the time on PC, and then they update their GPU with the latest firmware, and they're able to play 99.9% of all their old PC games going more than 20 years back.

There's no reason why Microsoft couldn't do this with the Xbox One, especially since the 360 and Xbox One are based on a fairly standard PC architecture. It's a bigger problem for Sony to patch in backwards compatibility since the PS3 has is own unique proprietary architecture with the cell processor.

[WolvesDude]

^^^
@BattleAxe

"There's no reason why Microsoft couldn't do this with the Xbox One, especially since the 360 and Xbox One are based on a fairly standard PC architecture. It's a bigger problem for Sony to patch in backwards compatibility since the PS3 has is own unique proprietary architecture with the cell processor."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

"Microsoft XCPU, codenamed Xenon, is a CPU used in the Xbox 360 game console, to be used with ATI's Xenos graphics chip.

The processor is based on IBM PowerPC instruction set architecture. It consists of three independent processor cores on a single die. These cores are slightly modified versions of the PPE in the Cell processor used on the PlayStation 3."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

The Xbox 360 is not based on "fairly standard PC architecture" at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

[holysmokesbatman]

I don't think so dude! BUT I'd be over the moon if you're right!

[bleedsoe9mm]

that would be bigger than big , emulation would be the earth killing nuke .

[RosweeSon]

Would have been good a year or so ago, now that we're nearly 2 years into this new generation I want new experiences rather than playing old games due to nothing else to play, a few classics are always welcomed but Microsoft need to start making some classics rather than looking backwards most of their stuff is 3rd party anyway.

[gangsta_red]

Yea, I doubt this would be it too. But it would be a megaton if true.

[Eonjay]

Well, its technically not possible for the PS4 or the Xbox One to emulate last gen, but the original Xbox may be possible... upscale of course.

[Dudebro90]

Uh emulation is totally possible...

You can program a computer to emulate pretty much anything.

[Eonjay]

@Dudebro90

Okay its mainly the CPUs that make this an impossible task. Last gen consoles had monster CPUs compared to this gen.

[Bigpappy]

X1 CPU is more than capable of running 360 games. 360 CPU might have had a higher clock, but only had 3 cores. The X1 CUP had 8. With DX12, those 8 core more than make up or any slight reduction in clock speed.

The emulator shouldn't be difficult for 360, but PS3's Cell processor is a whole different beast.

I don't expect an emulator though, maybe just Win10 preview released at E3.

[dcbronco]

@Eonjay

Isn't the Xbox OS a hypervisor running a game OS. Isn't it based on Windows 10 or the Server 2012 or NT kernel. Both of which would run on a RISC processor. And hasn't Microsoft figured out how to make NVIDIA and AMD GPU architectures work together in one machine. Hasn't Microsoft been working on languages that allow completely different kinds of computer systems communicate seamlessly. Doesn't Xbox One have 8gbs of embedded memory for it's OS that hasn't been completely explained. I'm not sure there is any reason Xbox One can't run 360 and original Xbox games.

#sorryaboutthelackofquestionm arks

[darthv72]

It seems logical that both the CPU and the GPU of the 360 can be emulated by the CPU and GPU of the XB1.

[TheCommentator]

360 has 9.6ghz across 3 cores(1 of those was used primarily for audio), while XB1 has 14ghz across 8 cores and a dedicated audio chip. 360 BC might be pssile, but the emulators do have to soak up some of the CPU bandwidth.

PS3 has 22.4ghz across 7 cores, versus 12.8ghz in the 8 cores of the PS4 CPU. It's not possible in this instance to run PS3 BC on PS4.

[Eonjay]

Guys... how in the hell are you going to get the Xbox One's 1.75GHz CPU to emulate the Xbox 360's 3.2GHz?

[TheCommentator]

Here's a hypothesis. DX12 can use the cores in parallel. 2 cores is 3.5ghz so if they can be told to work together at the same task, they may be able to emulate the function of one core from 360. I don't know enough about this subject to be sure if this is even possible.

[rainslacker]

Sigh

OK, to keep it simple. RISC actually has more instructions available to it than CISC processors do. I know it seems counter-intuitive, but the reduced instrcution set in RISC means that RISC actually can achieve more per instruction, thus needed fewer instruction to execute the same ammount of code. However, there is more overhead in a RISC architecture.

What this means, is that when you run it on CISC, time is wasted on CPU, and multiple instructions have to be broken up and run in sequence to derive a result. This ultimately slows down a CISC processor significantly, as it could take 2-4 cycles to complete a RISC instruction before the next RISC instruction can be broken down to run. In addition, some instructions have to be converted to get a proper result from a CISC processor, because some isntructions simply don't exist on the CISC processor.

I know it doesn't seem like much, but when you're talking about chips which can run billions of instructions per second, it adds up to just being slow without a processor which is orders of magnitude faster than the processor it's trying to emulate. Unfortunately, the CPU's in the new systems ARE NOT orders of magnitude faster, and at most they are maybe twice as fast as last gen.

All this splitting up stuff between cores, trying to say that since the cores are faster or because they're more of them, is not how processors work. What this effectively does is makes a non multi-threading instruction set into a multi-threaded instruction set, and that can't be done natively with enough speed, and actually introduces more work for the CPU to handle before it even gets to the instruction set to begin with. Everything that I see suggested or speculated on is just adding more work onto the processor which would already be taxed with the emulation software.

[rainslacker]

@DC

Yes, the Xbox runs on a hypervisor. However the games do not run off the OS. The hypervisor allows for access to the OS from the game, but otherwise, games are built directly to the system. Even DX12 code is built directly into the game, and doesn't require input from the OS to operate. This is why consoles have an advantage, and even PC's will not have this advantage when DX12 releases on Win10.

Windows Server, XP, NT, and all current versions of windows can work on RISC or CISC processors. This does not mean that all the software that is made for windows can. There are different Kernels for the RISC and CISC versions of windows, and if software is compatible between the two architectures it's because it either works on a framework, or there is a emulation algorithm within Windows, not unlike a virtual OS, or the developer has 2 different versions of the program to accomadate it(rare outside server/productivity stuff). However, ones that work off emulation tend to be slow and laggy as they require emulation of the actual OS environment as well.

Games themselves run on their own build, so any game which would work under emulation would require an update to work on the new hardware, and publishers aren't going to bother doing that.

The language you're talking about is a framework. Frameworks have been around for quite some time, and MS even has a very robust one in .NET. Java is another framework. However, games are not built on frameworks, because frameworks add a level of abstraction to the coding process which removes the hardware from the equation for the developer. This isn't suitable for games because it's just too slow, and it's not an answer for emulating software.

The 8GB of memory you're talking about is a static RAM, kind of like the memory in a smart phone. It is not high speed system memory. It is believed to exist for the purpose of page swapping and suspending games to quickly resume them. It may be used as a virtual memory, but it isn't suitable for running a game, or even an app.

I think it'd be awesome for Xbox to offer 360 BC, but for all the spectulation I see in these responses, none of it actually holds up to how computers work. It's wishful thinking.

OG Xbox may be possible, as the original was a x86 processor.

Think of it this way. The PS brand, up to the PS3(original launch versions) had full BC. They achieved this through the inclusion of prior gen hardware in the consoles. If software emulation were possible, they wouldn't have needed to do this. The CPU in the PS1, PS2, and PS3 were all RISC processors, yet they couldn't emulate the prior gens software. PS3 could do PS1 through emulation, but it was orders of magnitude faster than the PS1, and the GPU was substantially faster. That's just not the case from last gen to this gen

[XanderZane]

Kind of amazing how all 4 Halo games ended up on the XB1 though. Gears of War is coming as well. E3 is going to be fun though.

[LackTrue4K]

More like a "PlayStation NOW" type of XboxOne service....

[magiciandude]

I really hope not, but that is more likely.

[TheCommentator]

XBL Platinum: $5 extra per month to play any Xbox or 360 game you own, processed and streamed from the cloud as long as the disc is in the machine.

Plus, streaming game rentals to play games you don't own from any generation could be implemented at that point too.

[Dario_DC]

Don't know why people hate playstation now so much?!?! Seriously, if you have kids this is awesome! Hundreds of games for a few bucks a month! The kids can play tons of games anytime they want.
Xbox should do the same.

[meche334]

i bet it's gonna be cheaper too psnow is expensive af

[andibandit]

@dario_dc

"if you have kids..."

You kinda of answered your own question, I get your point, but I believe most people on this site dont have kids yet.

[Wikkid666]

Going to Xbox 360 streaming... not emulation. Why do you think out of the blue they added extra hdd support.

[Rookie_Monster]

Wrong...streaming don't require extra space as the data is just streaming from servers. On the other hand, if XBOX 360 games were indeed BC on XB1, the data from X360 disc will be downloaded and store on the external HDD. It makes perfect sense.

[Wikkid666]

@Rookie

You totally would need extra storage. Games would have to be installed on the Xbox 360 hdd to stream. Just like the XBO streaming coming.

[TheCommentator]

Streaming does not require storage. If you had to store the data it would be called downloading. Also, you don't stream from your hard drive. You remotely access the information from another source.

[Wikkid666]

@TheCommentator

It does require storage. Storage isn't on the pc or XBO. It is required on the X360 since it will be the source and you will need to have the game on the hhd.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

I would love to see if nothing else your old digital library be emulated.

[gangsta_red]

I have been saying this for the longest time. I would love for the "cloud" to take your 360 digital library and upload it so you could play it from your Xbox One.

I have a lot of digital games and with 360 Games with Gold it's only getting bigger.

[rainslacker]

Streaming would be the more likely scenario for BC. There isn't a lot of monetary incentive for console makers to provide this for free, and it may actually be quite costly to provide the service. In addition, publishers would have to agree to it, since MS would be running the software, and not the actual user.

Hardware BC in other systems got around this by simply including the hardware, or emulation software required, and I doubt publishers cared that much since they weren't really interested in making money off those anymore.

But the landscape has changed, and now there is money to be had in streaming content. PSNow allows publishers to make money off of their old content in some way, so it's a no-brainer for them. But they wouldn't make anything off streaming an old purchased game, and they may be more interested in re-selling the game.

If it becomes available where you can buy 360 games and play them on the X1, and MS provides a store-front for those games, then BC may come with it, because publishers may just be willing to keep some good will among their consumers.

Not sure if Sony allows for streaming already purchased content from their PS3 store, I believe they do, so it's possible that MS could offer it as well. OTOH, I'm not too familiar with PSNow to know what features it offers in this regard.

[diehardmetallicafans]

you'll still have crappy looking games to play, and they wont do it when a gears remaster is on the way.

[JasonKCK]

If MS were to include BC, then it would explain why Phil Spencer wants to distance Xbox from remasters.

[rainslacker]

Not really. Publishers don't make money off BC. They make money off remasters. I think Phil wants to distance the Xbox brand from it because there are some negative perceptions to the concept of remasters floating around.

I also think that maybe his quote was taken a bit out of context. I think he wasn't opposed to remasters, just that he wanted to stress that he was more interested in new content than trying to remake every game some people claim to want a remaster for. That makes sense to me because not all remasters are financially viable.

[GrmpyolGamer]

Sorry mate. Wont happen

[RobLoPR]

Im hoping for that also... Games with Gold is gonna be awesome!!

[Eonjay]

My guess would be a first look at Windows 10 on Xbox One.

[MasterBaker]

Phil spencer already said that it will be post summer, so I doubt it. But I do think it's a big update that will add many new and old features that we've been asking for.

[bleedsoe9mm]

that would make allot of sense to preview it on xb1 and win10 and more on the interaction , good way to sneak in some win10 news without making the games games games crowd mad .

[kreate]

Hope not ....

[Eonjay]

Why not? Im just interested to see the interface. You know, in comparison to the Live Tile interface.

[kreate]

I really really dont want another windows. Give us a few more years or something.

I dont want to risk it just for a look at the interface.

Thats just me though.

[MasterCornholio]

That seems probable to me.

But it could also be Tomb Raider becoming a permanent exclusive if the rumors are correct.

I'm expecting something big from all three of them.

[Moldiver]

I dunno what it is. But my xbox is ready!

[_LarZen_]

X360 backward compatibility would be a game changer. And the option to not only stream XBO games to Windows 10. But also the other way would be really cool.

These two things would put some serious heat on the competition.

[Moldiver]

"X360 backward compatibility would be a game changer. And the option to not only stream XBO games to Windows 10. But also the other way would be really cool."

This would be amazing. I would love to able to play all my x360 arcade games on X1. Then I wouldnt have to turn the X360 on anymore. And game streaming from PC to xbox would be awesome.

Does anybody know if W10 and Xbox gamerscores are unified? that would be killer.

@JJShredder

"Partnership with Steam and native support on an Xbox one?

That would be a killer feature to let people play an entire PC library on the console. "

This needs to happen too! The xbox would be a steam machine as well as an xbox. sort of...

[rpgenius420]

Yea your gamerscore is unified between windows phone Xbox and windows8/10. Some games like halo Spartan assault can be played and your progress is saved across all platforms.

[oSHINSAo]

So, pretty much the Steam App ?? imagine that, they already working together with Valve to add Features of the Xbox app on Steam like Recording for example.

[JJShredder]

Partnership with Steam and native support on an Xbox one?

That would be a killer feature to let people play an entire PC library on the console.

I already have a GTX980-based rig but that would be right nice for those who don't want to build one.

[Dudebro90]

Phil said Family Sharing was always still going to be in the road map. Maybe that's it.

[MasterCornholio]

Didn't they say it couldn't be done without DRM?

Which is why I believe it maybe a feature similar to shareplay. Which would be a pretty big announcement for the XB1.

[4Sh0w]

Im already family sharing, of course it requires me to allow my nephew to have access to my account/password but essentially its family sharing because while I live on the west coast and he lives on the east coast I buy all my games digitally and he can play them on his X1. Do you know how much money Ive saved?...I love this gen.

[rpgenius420]

@4show you could do that last Gen too. You just need to make your nephews 360 your main one on Xbox.com then it works the same way. PS3 you could activate 3-5 devices to share your games on.

[4Sh0w]

Well I guess I should have mentioned he can now get the achivements under his gamertag and its less cumbersome.

[christocolus]

This E3 is getting more and more interesting.

[HaydenJameSmith]

Yeah it's making the wait feel less and less bearable :P

About 3 weeks to go...

[christocolus]

3 weeks of torture.

[HaydenJameSmith]

@christocolus

I know, I just can't wait :]

[Sora_1994]

A lil off topic but anybody else getting hyped for e3 like crazy for the other two? Sony and Nintendo are quiet as hell so they must have something cooking and Microsoft have been talking about their conference and hyping it for months now so they have no choice but to bring it..I'm excited for all even tho I only have a ps4 right now(poor)

[MasterCornholio]

Yeah I'm pretty excited for Sony and Nintendo as well. As for being quiet I think that's typical of them and shouldn't be seen as a bad thing. Just because your not bragging about it doesn't mean you dont have anything to show.

[djrajx]

Surprised no one mentioned it yet. Joe Montana Football 16? The rumor is Damon Grow and company will be there to present the product at E3. It's going to be an Xbox One and Windows 10 exclusive. The game is being published by Microsoft. The game us real. Anyone following the community on twitter won't deny that.

But what could infinitely make this the "big" announcement is that JMF16 might have the NFL license, the same way MLB The Show has the MLB license on the PS4, because it's an exclusive. If true, that would inherently bring in a new and real challenger to Madden's football gaming dominance since NFL 2K5. It's just my theory. I know Angry Joe and many others are tweeting about it, and trying to snatch up as many clues and teasers that are being thrown at us by Damon Grow and the rest of his crew that are working on the JMF title.

And if it's not only JMF16, then I'm still excited to find out what else the big surprise is. This is going to be a fun E3.

[gangsta_red]

That would be HUGE news if true but I doubt it has anything to do with this article's talk of a system software patch.

I would love for JMF to be real especially being huge football fan. I'm thinking this may be true especially with the deal MS made with the NFL revealed at the reveal. This could go along right with the fantasy app they said they would have.

For JMF to even be close to a success they need to have real NFL players. No way would I buy a game with fake teams and fake players.

[djrajx]

Before I reply, in my original comment I made a couple errors I can't go back and edit: I meant to say, "...The game is *rumored to be* published by Microsoft. The game *is* real. Anyone following the community on twitter won't deny that..."

I also should have clarified in my original comment, that JMF16 might have something connected with the upcoming Windows 10 cross play with Xbox Live, which would involve some sort of software update I assume. I forgot to tie in my thoughts/opinion on the rumored JMF16 game and the article's XBL software patch topic together properly in my previous post. My apologies. Thank you for pointing that disconnect out. That's what I get for typing too quickly lol.

Yes, I'm a big football fan as well. I'm really looking forward to seeing if JMF16 and all the rumors surrounding the game's features and specs are true.

You hit the nail on the head with the MS/NFL deal. I completely forgot about that! Is the fantasy app possibly connected with Damon Grow's iMFL app?

[BillytheBarbarian]

Yeah finally, I'm not the only one waiting for news on Montana football 16! Can't wait! I'm following Damon grow on Twitter too

I'll get it. With or without NFL license...I'd take apf2k8 with a franchise mode and complete creative control

[djrajx]

I feel the same way.

I mean, it would be super awesome if it had the NFL license. But if it doesn't, I would still buy it and support. All it needs is a great/realistic gameplay mechanic and a ton of customizable options. If there is no license, then the football community will come through with downloadable user created NFL teams and roster like they did for other games (e.g., Backbreaker, etc.).

But I'm not going to lie, if MS announces JMF16 and slaps an NFL logo on the screen during the presentation, I would lose my mind.

[poor_cus_of_games]

What!?! A game show announcing games!?! Mind blown.

[christocolus]

Do well to read the title and article properly next time. This isn't even about games to be shown at the show. lmao.

[RobLoPR]

Smh

[cyphertech]

I wonder what will be timed exclusive this year?

[Flames76]

Cant wait for the XOne E3 press conference this is hands down gonna be the biggest E3 microsoft has ever had.Everything has turned around for them Xbox division still doing profit even after price cut back to outselling the PS4 and the biggest games they have had yet to be announced

[playstation4epic]

Outselling ps4 my ass

[RobLoPR]

Give it time...

[ilikepizza]

the patch is obviously windows 10 related. Who the hell cares about xbox 360 emulation. They are trying to get people off the xbox 360 and onto the xbox one. Developers are already having a hard time saying no to 80 million consoles versus 10. let's not give anyone a reason to keep the last gen alive any longer than it has. I still have my 360 and im actually going to hook it up and play through gears 1-3 and whatever gamse for gold ive accumulated since i can now hook up a hard drive (ive been purchasing the games for gold online just so its saved to my account). If you want to play 360 games that bad,just get a 360.

[jhoward585]

Good call. It's possible to emulation xbox 360 on x1 because MS recent OS has backward-compatibility(from 64bit to 32bit) in bedded in their software.

That said, its very likely the next OS update on x1 might have backward-compatibility support like the PC OS.

[rainslacker]

x32 and x64 don't require BC. The 32 and 64 bit simply refers to the resister size and is an indication of how much memory the OS/program can recognize and address. 64 bit code can not usually run on 32 bit processors due to the size of the registers, but 32 bit code can run on 64 bit registers since they are significantly smaller. There is actually no difference in the instruction set otherwise. The problems with execution come from the fact that the program is expecting a 64 bit register size but is only allocated a 32 bit allocation. running 32 bit on 64 bit though, there is a abstraction layer which handles such things(emulation).

I have a detailed reason up in the first comment why BC from last gen is not going to be provided through emulation if you want to read it. OG Xbox is possible, but streaming BC is a much more likely scenario.

In a game, if a game is built for 64 bit(not sure if this is the case as they should all be 32 bit from last gen to this one), then most of it's code would take that into account, as it can allow for faster execution by reducing memory page swaps. Most games, even for PC, are built for 32 bit. 64 bit code is mostly advantageous for general OS routines and server operations, outside of some specific productivity software which can greatly benefit from it.

Would love to be wrong, because if MS offers full BC, then maybe Sony will get their act into gear and at least provide PS1/2 BC which should be more than possible.

Edit:

For anyone interested in the differences between 32 and 64 bit, here is a pretty thorough rundown. It's pretty technical but does expand on my first couple paragraphs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

[jhoward585]

Good break down between 64bit vs 32bit BTW.

Well, One thing I'd like to say here, You're one of the ones I've recognized on n4g that seems to know what you're talking about when it comes to tech stuff. I know a lot myself but I will admit I don't always know everything.

Well, anyways, I don't know how credible this site is on this matter, however, I think it worth looking at it because I recall reading about why it would be easy to bring 360 games to the x1 hardware on several sites. Sorry, can't seem to find those sites.

Please note: this is not the original site I read about x1 backward-compatibility a few months ago...

http://www.inquisitr.com/14...

[rainslacker]

The article you linked seems to be talking about the original Xbox, not the 360. I would say that the original Xbox could be emulated for the most part on the X1. There wasn't a lot of specialized hardware in the OG Xbox, and it used a custom 3 core Pentium III processor, which should be easily emulated as it's several generations removed from current processors. In comparable PC specs it's about equivalent to the difference between a Pentium III and a i3.

I don't mean to imply that 360 emulation can't happen, just that there are some serious obstacles to software emulation, and from what little I know about the Jaguar processors it isn't fast enough to handle the conversion and differences in instruction sets. Some games may work OK, but games that run using specialized PowerPC instructions could cause huge slow downs, or even crashes depending on how robust the emulator is.

Keep in mind that 360 emulation at acceptable speeds hasn't really happened on PC's with i5's, and the only things that work so far are some very basic games, or booting up to the title screen. I'm not aware of any AAA level game that runs beyond a frame or two per second. The Xbox is considerably slower than the current i5's.

[chaosx]

Xbox 360 mini ...... can't beat hardware. Small box plugged in to USB3 .

[WilDRangeRfc]

I hope it is not emulation,if you want to play 360 games keep your 360 simple,I want something new and exciting not last gen games.
MS need to concentrate on new gen experiences that will take the gaming industry forward,concentrating on last gen games is not the answer,I understand people dont want to let go of good memories but if thats the case stay on 360 and let the new gen concentrate on being the new gen

[brewin]

Im betting on the ability to stream xb1 content to tablets and smartphones. 360 bc would also be nice, but then they wouldnt be able to sell us definitve versions of last gen titles like they do now.

[Fezza]

Forget backwards compatibility, I'd much rather have the ability to play music in the background.

[icebone23]

you people are all crazy, why would Microsoft enable us to play 360 titles when they can make HD remakes and sell it back to us.

[icebone23]

you people are all crazy, why would Microsoft enable us to play 360 titles when they can make HD remakes and sell it back to us

[mikey201]

How about it could be remote play from anywhere in the world with windows 10 and xbox. Like ps4 and vita does