Bigger Is Not Always Better; Why Titanfall’s 6v6 Player Cap Is Actually A Good Thing

Nerdacy: Respawn Entertainment's Microsoft exclusive, Titanfall, has a player cap at 6v6 and that's a good thing! We need to stop playing the numbers game, it gets nowhere.

[NatureOfLogic]

If you guys keep telling me that, I might actually believe it sooner or later. I was going to try it out for PC, but I'll wait for players feedback. All the media damage control have me worried atm.

[Kleptic]

totally agreed...

I've sworn off pre-ordering anything EA related for the time being; BF4 has been such a shat-show beyond anything acceptable that I won't ever be a part of again until they make some MAJOR corporate wide adjustments towards the products they sell...

and this news, for myself and a pretty big group of friends...makes that decision very easy...

no pre-order...not interested in official reviews (never am, anyway)...i'll just wait and see what those who do buy it and play say about it...Its a sad state when my biggest concern...literally...is if the facking title even works when it releases...but the 6vs6 issue hasn't exactly stimulated any interest to any degree...if anything, it made it plummet...

[Gazondaily]

The people that have played it have nothing but great things to say about the game. So I don't know what exactly you're expecting.

Just wait till March. You lot are prematurely throwing your toys out of the pram without actually having a hands-on at the game.

I don't get it; are you saying you lot know better than Respawn about the game they are making? That, when they said that they tested out multiple player counts and 6v6 seemed best, they were lying?

You do realise who these guys are right? They made the best and last great COD game. They made a game that wowed many, not only in the first showing of the game but with loads of early hands-on impressions.

Scarcely anyone, who has played Titanfall, has complained about it.

I'm telling you, you guys are not getting it. This isn't your standard shooter-fare. This is QUALITY over quantity.

The bots are NOT filler or replacements for human players.

There is MORE THAN ENOUGH action on screen (at least from my playthrough).

Let's be level-headed here. Chill...wait till the game is out then make a judgment. It's the smart thing to do.

[BABYLEG]

Cant wait for TF. Max, peggle, Ryse, DR3, 2K14.. Those games have been good to my One and I

[NovasRevenge]

exactly, after the release of bf4 ill also never buy anything from EA day one. i was gonna get this on pc but they know where they can shove it now , 6 v 6 = pathetic.

[XisThatKid]

I know it was last gen and all but both Uncharteds were only 5v5 and in my opinion was/is amazing multiplayer experiences that I just can't get on many if any other games.

That's me though I only play extensive on games that bring something new to the table. Even though I'm not going to get Titanfall (since I'm not buying an X1 for one game) I see nothing wrong with their choice especially if that was what with for design reasons. Its obvious it isn't hardware limitations I'm sure X1 could handle larger player base especially on a dedicated server no disrespect if any to PlayStation, I know they have dedservs too.

[xHeavYx]

I thought there would be AI bots (or whatever you want to call it) making the people on the map count higher. I just wonder why they can add AI but not real players

[NewMonday]

@Septic

you spin very hard damage controlling, did you know 70% of the characters in MP were bots, that 70% of your kills are siting duck AI, that make you feel awesome?

you say you played the game and know how it is, and you have a website or blog don't you, then why don't you take some of the available action footage of the game and explain to us what is the different class AI and how AI Titans work differently without a pilot/ do they engage and kill or not?

[LightofDarkness]

My god NewMonday, how you have so many bubbles is beyond comprehension. I've told you again and again that the AI grunts are not bots, I've explained it in clear English, we've debunked every little argument you make over and over again in other articles and yet you STILL spout the same BS over and over again in every article. You are either completely incapable of learning or you're just a rabid, jealous fanboy. Now which is it?

[fanboybeatdown]

Once again, here we have a story about a game that is not available on the ps4, but the thread is overrun with PS4 fanboys talking trash about the game.

I do prefer to listen to the users on here that have actually played the game - not the fanboy armchair generals. From those that have actually played the game I got the impression that the game is rather fun!

I echoed the sentiments of the article:
http://n4g.com/comments/red...

[Gazondaily]

@new

"you say you played the game and know how it is, and you have a website or blog don't you, then why don't you take some of the available action footage of the game and explain to us what is the different class AI and how AI Titans work differently without a pilot/ do they engage and kill or not?"

Er...I can't share any footage because we weren't allowed to take any. Believe me, we tried..even on the sly. In fact, we did our hands-on report here:

http://www.gameondaily.com/...

The player count was such a non-issue that it didn't even register to us at all. We played it back in September. I do remember when my mate had a Titan follow him, it was really cool but required some coordination. It's not like having a walking super turret following you, auto-killing anything it sees.

"you spin very hard damage controlling"

And you seem to spending a lot of time, jumping from thread to thread berating this game, that you haven't even had a hands-on with? So why should we take your opinion seriously?

Just you wait till March.

[r2oB]

@ Septic

All those players giving the game praise, how long did they play for? Its not out of the realm of possibility that a game be extremely fun in a controlled enviornment where people are only allowed to play a certain amount of games within a designated time frame. Can any of these people that praise the game say they have played long enough to speak to its longevity? How long until playing against bots become repetitive and stale? To me, the whole point of competitive MP is to play against people, because people are less predictable than bots. Its adds a certain element to gameplay. They say matches can consist of up to 50 players, so Id be playing again 6 humans and 19 bots? Whats the purpose of bots if not to fill in for humans?To defend a position while hiding being cover? To bombard players like a horde mode? Or to just do whatever and be unpredictable like a human player would? You've played the game, please enlighten me as to what their role is.

[Bennibop]

@Septic so when you played titanfall you realised that it was only 6v6 then? Or we're you under the impression like many that there was a higher player count! I am not sure how people can form much of an opinion of agame they have not played, I agree with you there. but as trends in gaming have changed in the last 30 years I have been involved toward shared experiences/ multiplayer focus I can understand that people feel that have been mislead by Ea and Respawn. Do not forgot we were told that this game is online only and people have been lead (through pics and vids) to believe it is a larger scale multiplayer, so it's bound to alienate certain parts of the gaming community.

[NewMonday]

@LightofDarkness

AI combat targets/ allies =bots

@Septic

you can use any publicly available footage

simple questions:

- dose the AI titan kill?
- do other AI kill
- dose killing AI give you points?
- did you the number of bots when you played and were you asked not to mention it?

"Just you wait till March"

and get showered by more smoke and mirrors till then, no thank you, information should have been revealed a long time ago, if you don't do you job as a "journalist" the community will do it for you.

[maniacmayhem]

@Septic

No point trying to convince some of these people even though you have ACTUALLY played the game. They are dead set in their thinking that the developers are lying, the AI are bots, MP has been killed, or hardware limitations.

So hilarious that everyone who has come away from this game loved it but now this has turned into PR/Dev smoke and mirrors or journalist hype.

This N4G community is really baffling and it is really hard to not pull the "Sony fanboy" card when you read just how ridiculous some of these comments are when the developers are spoon feeding you the reasons they made the player count the way it is in almost every submitted article that comes to N4G.

No other game has had this much hate or anger towards it. First we had most people here claiming it was coming to PS4, then they cursed MS and EA for going behind Respawn's back for an exclusive deal, then the game was over hyped and not a big deal, then it was decided that PC was the definitive version, then folks were going to wait for part 2 on PS4, now those same people are shocked and outraged the count is 6v6 and it has become damage control from here on out.

SMH, pretty amazing.

[LightofDarkness]

For the last time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Bots are NOT any AI. They simulate and emulate human players in multiplayer games. They take the positions of player slots in multiplayer games. I have been playing with bots since Quake. By your logic, the zombies in L4D are bots, or rather, the enemies in any game are bots.

They are not. These enemies in Titanfall are not bots. You're making yourself look incredibly foolish by continuing to either ignore me and many others correcting you for the umpteenth time or by simply not having the mental capacity to absorb new information. No one who knows anything about bots would agree with you. Which again leads us to the crux of the matter: YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. Most people are smart enough to know to stop talking when this becomes apparent.

[NewMonday]

@LightofDarkness

"For the last time..Bots are NOT any AI"

from your link:

"In video games, a bot is a type of weak AI expert system software which for each instance of the program controls a player in deathmatch, team deathmatch and/or cooperative human player, most prominently in the first-person shooters (FPSs). Computer-controlled bots may play against other bots and/or human players in unison, either over the Internet, on a LAN or in a local session.[1] Features and intelligence of bots may vary greatly, especially with community created content. Advanced bots feature machine learning for dynamic learning of patterns of the opponent as well as dynamic learning of previously unknown maps"

[LightofDarkness]

@NewMonday: Please, which part of all that is troubling you? It all perfectly agrees with what I said. And completely disagrees with what you said. Quoting it back to me isn't necessary, I'm quite capable of reading comprehension. However, if you are not, then you need more help than I can provide.

Perhaps the most important part is in this line:
"a bot is a type of weak AI expert system software which for each instance of the program controls a player in deathmatch, team deathmatch and/or cooperative human player"

Again:

"controls a player"
"controls a player"
"controls a player"

The Titanfall AI do not control players. They are simple enemy AIs as found is countless other FPS games. Even the Titan itself is put into a simple "Guard" mode when the player has left the cockpit. Any player worth their salt would be able to take it down without much hassle while a human player is not inside. It can't rack up the same points from kills as you can while inside it or outside it.

[fanboybeatdown]

@ all the people arguing with NewMonday.

Wtf is wrong with you guys?
You argue with that fanboy as if you can somehow change his mind, knowing full well he's a Sony fanboy and will troll and spin until the sun goes down.

Save yourself some trouble and don't bother.

All that can be done on n4g is debubble the trolls like him and leave them to wallow in their own filth.

If we feed the trolls they just get louder, crowing for more attention.

[r2oB]

@ light of darkness

A.I., bot, whatever you want to call them... The point is they are not human. That seems to be the gripe people are having. Worst case scenario they are either OP or bullet sponges (both of which are not fair or fun IMO)... Best case scenario they play like human players, which lends itself to the point people a trying to make, why not just make more human players instead (even optional). If they felt 6v6 is the sweet spot, why make almost triple the amount of non human players? Why not make it 6v6 with a possible 6v6 extra Titans only. They feel 6v6 offers the best experience, but have they explained why? Why mix human players, Titans, and AI/bots? Why have extra AI/bots (not Titans) instead of extra human players? Are they just meant to be easy targets so that players can reach their Titanfall quicker?

[Charybdis]

They should do an open beta before releasing the game, would also like to have a demo available.

[DJustinUNCHAIND]

Maybe that's because the media has actually played the game, and can speak to it's quality.

[Dpooly]

wasn't it the media that gave colonial marines high scores before it was released and made alot of people very angry?

[1lawrence]

Yea like gta4 f the media hype

[Fizzgig]

I refuse to believe any media hype these days.

[andrewsqual]

Strange reaction from the same website back then http://www.nerdacy.com/2013...

[Letthewookiewin]

Ya it's been nothing but damage control from Microsoft since the first anouncement and now this.

[TekoIie]

People should probably do some research:

"Those waves of easily slain AI Grunts aren't just for show: as with the Creeps in a Multiplayer Online Battle Arena title, they create a base level of threat that subtly impacts on the player versus player combat. You can convert them to your side by plugging one with a Data Knife, which may be worth doing when the opportunity presents itself, but probably won't turn the tide of battle by itself. You can also concentrate on killing the other side's Grunts to grind XP at relatively low risk (more kills equals faster Titan summons)."

It's also shown in the announcement trailer from E3: http://youtu.be/goe6IB1DLZU...

I actually think this is an interesting mechanic to play around with in the game :)

[mochachino]

I totally agree that it's all about the optimal number of player for the map size but often (not always but most of the time) if the maps are smaller they did so to have better looking graphics, like Gears.

So the count is probably low so the graphics can attempt to impress, or not disappoint.

[Kleptic]

i've seen this argument left and right...but, clearly, this isn't the case...at least imo...

BF4 has 64 players, with options for 2 commanders and 4 spectators for any given server...that is 70 clients actively connected to any given server...

and, don't get me wrong, BF4 is still a mess as far as stability, consistency, and networking in general...but one thing it does right...is blows away EVERY other multiplayer game visually...BF4 so far looks blatantly more impressive on a technical level than what i've seen of TF...and even if TF gets some major updates before release, i simply can't see how its going to be so much better than bf4 by a margin as big as 12 vs. 64 players...

[snookiegamer]

Careful, you don't want to upset the Titan Fall fans by making sensible comments like that. I get the impression because it's one of the few X1 games of interest this year, some ppl are willing to die for it....

Yeh small minded dorks will put this down to Sony fanboyism...like they had control over 6 v 6.

Pathetic, now grow up zealots!

[Charybdis]

I do understand its finally a new interesting shooter ip. But in my opinion with only 6vs6 players just feels cheap and rushed. Certainly a larger player count could be done and would still be fun if they used larger scale maps.
That said I wouldn't be surprised if after a few months EA would come up with an expansion map pack allowing for more players for a certain amount of $. If they don't have enough resources certainly a high profile game such as this would allow for additional investment in resources.

[LightofDarkness]

Sensible? You're comparing two VERY different games. Do you think it makes sense to compare Uncharted's MP to Battlefield's? Do you think LOL and DOTA 2 suffer from lower player counts and AI grunts?

The number of players doesn't make the game better. If it did, MAG must've been the most impressive and amazing multiplayer experience of all time. Surely, even Battlefield doesn't compare to the majesty of MAG, right? Or even Planetside 2, heck, PS2 must bring tears to the eyes of the mere mortals lucky enough to have experienced it.

Oh, it doesn't? I wonder why that is? Surely, the gameplay doesn't matter, it's the number of people who can play it at once that matters, right?

[Kleptic]

Obviously my comparison was related to visual fidelity...having nothing to do with either title's gameplay...

Tiftanfall does not have the same technical prowess of BF4...its not a debate...its not even close...BF4 has 5x the player count...the post i responded to stated that the player count of titanfall was kept 'low so graphics can impress'...I was merely stating...wrong...

[Bigpappy]

I don't see why this is even controversial. The developers of the game should always decide, as it is their vision. If you don't like their game or trust their judgment, you have Battlefield and COD on all major formats.

[green]

"I don't see why this is even controversial". Really????

If Xbox One FCC certification can be a big thing, then why can't this? If not 6 vs 6 it will be something else. There must always be something else for them to complain about.

The game is just 2 months away. I will wait for reviews and player feedback and if good, Titanfall will accompany my purchase of an X1.

[VENOMACR1227]

Funny, there are hundreds of comments about on arguments negative against 6v6, but one positive comes out and no one says anything. N4G is filled with Sony fanboys and they would love nothing more then to see Titanfall fail all because they cant have it.

Guess what? The game is still going to sell incredibly well and will be right up there for game of the year. Since when is 64 players or 32 players the standard? Why is more better? I'd rather run around with 5 of my friends then 12 morons who are hiding or not playing the objective.

Titanfall will do just fine.

[Mr-Dude]

How much I love gaming on my PS4, i don't want games to fail... I think no one actually. Games cost a fortune to make, and less money for the next project means crappy games. And on a side note, this game is being hyped to much... just like Killzone: SF was, and that was an okay game, gameplay wise.

Me personally couldn't give a crap if TF comes to PS4 or not, it's not my type of game. I take a singleplayer game anyday over a multiplayer only. Sure, there are some Sony fanboys who troll the sh*t out of this game, but Xbox fans are no different

[kneon]

Anyone can have it, it's not an xb1 exclusive, it's also on pc.

[snookiegamer]

The amount of ppl that are trashing/defending a game that isn't even out yet....what a load of planks.

[CrossingEden]

I wonder if any of the people who're saying that 6v6 is a bad thing even own a xb1.

[skoorydook]

Don't need an X1 to play it matey

[KingDadXVI]

You are correct but you can't play it on a PS4 and that has many pissed off hence the continual backlash. Any hate this game is getting is "hate by association". It is exclusive to the evil MS and the fan boys will continually hate it.

What pisses the fan boys off even more than it not being on their console of choice is the fact that it could have been on their console but Sony chose not to support the game. That is a double whammy to the faithful who believe Sony is all about games and can do no wrong.

Don't believe me? Read the attached article as it explains the reason PS4 was not included as a launch platform:

http://www.respawn.com/news...

[skoorydook]

@Kingdad,

Never said I didn't believe anything.

So only hating fanboys say they don't want or don't think this game looks amazing, so that means it will have a 100 percent attachement rate right ?

And I have aleady said I look forward to trying the game out.

[Neonridr]

While 6v6 seems a little low in my head, I can't acurately determine if this setup will or won't work because I haven't played the game yet.

I will reserve my judgement until I get a chance to try a demo or open beta.

Who am I to pretend I know better than the developers of the actual game?

[Dpooly]

that would make you the one who is going to buy it. so if you and i and many others think 6v6 is far to little people do you not think the developers should add the choice for a higher player count match / game mode, you know to make the people going to potentially buy it happy.

[Neonridr]

Well I could think it's a low count now, but when I play it I could end up changing my mind and saying it's perfect for the size of map, etc.. who knows.

Point is, I think we should at least wait to see some more footage of the game in action or try it ourselves with a demo/beta before we automatically label this game as a fail.

[maniacmayhem]

@Dpooly

That makes no sense, the developers have already stated that a higher player count took away from the experience they are intending for Titanfall.

They played the game with a higher player count and found it frustrating, unplayable, a mess and lacking for what they wanted players to accomplish with objectives. They played it, and determined this and adjusted the gameplay accordingly.

So what if they bowed down to the internet fanboy demands which has NEVER played the game, and decided to up the player count, then release the game and reviews come back with the same negativity they experienced, then what?

Who's happy now? Everyone lost because now a game was dictated by a bunch of fanboys who never played the game and thought it was best the game be like every other FPS on the market.

[CELLA]

i did not buy xbox one just for titanfall i buy it for star wars games,warhammer 40,000 Eternal Crusade,Strider,Killer Instinct,Destiny and the new game evolve why do people buy console for one game i do not no

[snookiegamer]

Maybe because it's their money to do as they please, and maybe it's none of your business what people spend their own money on?

Just saying ;/

[NovasRevenge]

a

[hello12]

BF 32VS 32 conquest is not that good. I get shot more in the back because of the terrible spawning on that game. For me bigger numbers doesn't mean better.

Gears of war had 4v4 and it was the most fun i ever had on a shooter. They went with 5vs5 with judgement, i thought it was too much, but still playable.

And to be honest nobody really has tried out Titanfall at 6vs6 so complaining is stupid, play the game, and then have an opinion.

[AKissFromDaddy]

You're right about Gears of War 2 multiplayer. However Gears 2 was overall broken, glitchy, and lower in quality in comparison to Gears 1. Additionally, Gears 2's map size is significantly too big by design for having 5 vs. 5, in my opinion.

Recall Glitches of War 2 video on YouTube for how bad it was overall
https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Nevertheless, other game modes in Battlefield 4 are excellent with lower, but not too low, player counts.

BF4 Squad Deathmatch features up to 4 squads of 5 players each, where the objective is the same as in Team Deathmatch: reach the kill limit before the other team.

BF4 Team Deathmatch features 2 teams of 10 players each, where the objective is to reach the kill limit before the other team.

BF4 Rush & Obliteration features 2 teams of 16 players.

BF4 Defuse features 2 teams of 5 players.

Source: http://blogs.battlefield.co...

Battlefield may be unstable because it was rushed, but DICE offered options to player count in other modes.

[megatron_78]

i hope it turns out good probably will at a certain level, but the real question is ,dont know if anyone asked them but y not replace the AI/bots with humans y would u want an AI thats so advanced that it simulates real humans over....real humans i don't get it .im sure it will play great and more isn't better but the fact that bots are replacing real people is a little strange.still getting it though, also having a preference over small or large player count isn't really the point.maybe some hate being shot in the back cause of bad spawning but imagine u get shot in the back cause spawning anyways but its a bot, the comparison between this and other games like gears really doesn't make sense unless gears had bots playing along in the multiplayer at the same time ,don,t u think ?i dont think any answer can realy justify replacing humans with bots,unless they say it was system constraints ..but then again there's a pc version.......

[Summons75]

The only reason why I see this being a problem is last gen I remember a bunch of devs complaining they were restricted due to servers and the machines the games were made for. All the games that had 64 or more had private servers and games that got big numbers without were laggy and nobody played those game types. The titanfall devs were raving about how the were going to be able to use private servers and cloud to make the game bigger and with the look of the game it would seem to to be 12v12 or more but these devs are the people who created call of duty. Half this game look and play like call of duty adding in robots to change things up. It seems more like these devs are being lazy with the advantages they have and people are starting to realize that and speak up which is making the devs get overly defensive (which typically means they're hiding something).

Comments complaining about people giving criticisms are ridiculous. "Oh you don't agree with these guys you're a fanboy", that honestly has to be the worst thing I've heard. Sure THIS game maybe exclusive to PC and Xbone but that is going to hurt sales since not a lot of people have an xbone and after call of duty and killzone came out on the next gen systems it seems like people prefer the PS4 for shooters this gen but the Titanfall devs have already said that TF2 would most likely be on every system.

Either way the devs are getting overly defensive about this and I wanna know why, they live in an industry built on critism...these comments from bosses, reviewers, FANS, are only meant to help make the game better and if you get offended when your entire fanbase is upset you should probably stop crying about it and actually look at what they are saying. Look at Ninja Theory, they NEVER listen to critisms and just insult the people they expect to buy their games... when the games sell poorly (like ALL of their games) they only throw a fit and blame the people who they already insulted and refuse to make a sequel when they could just grow up, look at their mistakes, listen to comments and reactions to fix the problems they keep having (buggy games, stiff simple and broken gameplay, poor stories). These devs have a chance to improve their game before it releases and they are 'getting insulted' because the majority find what they promise and their player count to be two different things.

[AKissFromDaddy]

You're right, in my opinion. However, the turning point where you dominate your argument is your point with Ninja Theory. That's great. Nevertheless, if Respawn simply gave the option to not play with A.I. bots, then these articles wouldn't exist.

Additionally, if A.I. bots are much better to play with according to Respawn, let gamers decide whether they'll fill up servers with or without A.I. bots, in my opinion.

What do you think?

[jimbobbeers]

Its simply remarkable how much debate this player count thing is bringing up, no other game has ever had this much hate and concern over player count, so its hard not to believe people have an agenda.

[DJustinUNCHAIND]

Let me be perfectly clear.

The ONLY reason this is such a big "issue" is because it's the biggest game of the year, and it's exclusive to Microsoft.

The haters are only helping Titanfall by bringing it even more attention than it had already.

[lonewolfjedi]

Only reason this is still a problem is that the bots outnumber humans players by more than double. Each side has 12 bots to begin with and there are no options to raise the player cap or lower the bot cap