PS4 holds a spec advantage over the Xbox One. The system has better RAM but the CPU is quite similar. So what about the GPU?
I think Jonathan Blow said it best regarding the PS4's advantage in hardware power. (I'm paraphrasing his comments from Twitter) "The difference in power is going to be more significant than people think. We're talking about one console running a game at 30 fps and the other console running the game at 60 fps". And before anyone spouts the "it won't matter because devs will program for the lowest common denominator", that is 100% false. PS3 had a weaker GPU and a split pool of RAM, and guess what happened? A lot of multiplats looked better on 360! You can say "Devs were being lazy" all you want. It doesn't matter because even if that's true, do you think those "lazy" devs are suddenly going to be "not lazy" now? No. They'll utilize the PS4's hardware advantage because 3rd parties don't give a crap about console wars. They care about their game selling more than the OTHER 3rd party devs, so they're not going to compromise the fidelity of their game for some silly "lowest common denominator" nonsense.
Yeah, the huge difference in GPU power combined with Xbox One only having 5GB memory available for games compared to the PS4 having 7GB available is going to result in some major differences in multiplatform games, that will only become increasingly pronounced throughout the next console generation. Sony designed a console for gaming whereas Microsoft designed a console for watching TV.
That'ts a little disengineous. I could if I Was stupid say that Sony made the PS3 for watching movies but that would only be looking at it from one side. And only choosing to see that. They both play games and they both will do multimedia and social functions. Microsoft is hitting more home with it only does everything but if E3 was any indication of The years to come it seems MSFT could pull off gaming and TV.
@JBSleek - Did the capability of watching a movie on PS3 detract from game playing in any way, even a little? The type of RAM One uses and 3GB of it taken up by the OS do. Those things show that One's primary focus is not gaming, but multimedia and multitasking.
"Microsoft is hitting more home with it only does everything" "It only doesn't everything" was a PS3 marketing slogan. Microsoft missed the mark badly with the Xbone. At E3 they had worse specs, a smaller first and second party game-making infrastucture, DRM, and a higher price. They have reversed the DRM with a software patch at least. (BTW, they will have to package in the box.) But they are still charging $100 more for worse specs. They still have a much smaller first and second-party game-making infrastructure.
8GB 5GB - Gaming 3GB - Operating Systems The type of Ram leans toward graphical performance. Absolutely. I wont argue with you there... but when did 3GB become larger than 5GB? The component focus is on gaming,
The ps4 design does have some draw backs the GDDR5 has has latency issues and GG has stated that the 176mb per sec not all of it is accessible to devs. the xbox one GPU has two independant bus's, one to DDR3, one to the ESRAM. BY contrast, the PS4 has a 2 very small bus's between the CPU and GPU, and one main memory bus. On PS4 it is onion and garlic and it is used since 2011 if i am correct ,amd APU liano even the name is the same
No. Get your info straight before you repost some amateur articles. Xbox one uses hypervisor which let's devs take all 7 GB of ram for gaming if needed. Not only that but also Xbox One was built from ground up with dx 11.2 in mind. That's why fast eSRAM and modified DDR3 (it's faster than GDDR5) were used. Check out MS demo of them showing tilling, where scenes that would use 3GB of RAM, use only 16 MB of ram with that technology. Graphic quality is not just about GPU power and you people should learn already. To remind you ps3 had less raw graphic power than 360(YES, LOOK IT UP) but still pulled off games with graphics that you won't see on 360. There is much more to it! http://www.examiner.com/ima...
To Ballseye. Best post I have read. Thank you and some one know whats he its talk about. Thats correct XONE will use 7GB of ram. And with the help of the cloud will be stronger than PS4. And kinect its worth $100 more.
@frigiddarkness No the GDDR5 in the ps4 will have about the same latency as the DDR3 and esram in the X1. A bunch of people have debunked that. And you are correct that dev won't have access to all 176GB/s but they will be able to get closer to that because it's unified and will be easier to handle. Also they are probably gonna reserve 1GB for the OS so that should take away from the 176GB/s. Unless I'm wrong about that.
mystic correct me if i am wrong, but isn't 5 more than 3? and if 5 are for games, then how can the main focus be something else?? please enlighten me
I don't even know what you guys are talking about. I'll just sit in the corner and play some games.
Are you that delusional?The first Xbox had a much higher gap than the one this article cites and it still didn't have a single multi platform game looking much better.And also please shut your mouth.I have went to a graphics card shop and all of the things ps4 is said to do better wasn't even mentioned in the descriptions of the cards.Why should we care about teraflops and rops when not even pc gamers don't care about those.If they were so important why didn;t they mentioned them all those years for graphics cards.And why do you keep taking things someone said as facts when there's a ton of developers who said that performance difference could be non existent.
@ovnipc With the "help of the cloud" ya... http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...
@BallsEye Yeah I know what you mean; Tilled Resources. MS showed it at the Developer's conference as a feature made possible with DirectX 11.2, which is exclusive to Windows 8.1 and Xbox One. I liked that demo. Though I wouldn't use it as defense for the Xbox One since I've seen that method being used in plenty of ways in the PS3 (the lowering of unused, unseen textures and elimination of objects to lower memory consumption). So maybe the PS4 still has more memory, even with Tilled Resources in XB1. Actually, (I may be wrong) I think that DirectX took that idea from OpenGL (PS3 and PS4 use it).
@GuyThatMakesSense That's a completely different thing. Things like LOD and other tilling in openGL gives you VERY visible downgrade in visual quality and still consumes whole lot of RAM. Tiled Resources gives no visual downgrade at all and uses almost 200 TIMES less RAM. If it wouldn't be something new, Industry wouldn't be so excited about it.
@BallsEye Are you sure any of those numbers (200 times less ram) and noticeably worse OpenGL tiling is true? The "industry" (which very well can just be general informed public) can be easy excited for anything, even lies (LOOK AT NUMBER 3 INSIDE LINK): http://blog.wolfire.com/201... Misleading marketing campaign that makes you think games will look noticeably better "if you use the latest version" of said thing, or "it can only be done by our product" lines. I wouldn't fall for it too quickly, and neither should you. Let's see what MS has to offer instead of being convince by their sweet talk. Let us also see if Sony can do any better, as well.
@GuyThatMakesSense From 3000 MB to 16 MB is almost 200 times less, check out the presentation. About the excitement... if all the experts are excited, it means something for sure!
Also: PS4 GPU is based on GCN 2: having 8 ACE's (AMD’s new Asynchronous Compute Engines), each capable of running 8 CL's each. Tahiti and 7970/7870 have two ACEs, 2 CL's per ACUs. Surely Xbox One GPU has the same as the latter if not less. If I make that simple the ACUs are like the SPUs in the CELL which are efficient in heavy calculations operations and Cerny confirmed that they can mimic the behaviour of the SPUs with them which gives us 64 operations compared to 4 in a ATI 7970. That's the power of a GPGPU. It is a greta idea for Sony from shifting the CELL a processor doing graphical stuff to a GPU doing CPU stuff.
its called "partialy resident texture" http://www.anandtech.com/sh... It has been already done. Another xbox fanboy secret sauce. It really is pathetic. How many secret sauce, wizard jizz must we go through? MS changes already existing Partially Resident Texture and market it as different name. Xbox fanboys go banana
@BallsEye Do you even know what a Hypervisor is? It is a virtual machine environment, this allows a machine to run a number of OS or apps with in a virtual environment while not directly affecting the main OS. MS are running there 3 ALWAYS running OS's this way. It has nothing, as you say to do with how devs allocate ram. MS have already stated the the X1 will use 3gb for OS & 5 for games. http://n4g.com/news/1262357... It is you, who needs to get his/her info straight before spouting crap in these forums.
@Ballseyes You have balls in your eyes and they look like this
Yeah, the power difference is pretty big and you WILL see it in multiplatform games. But it's very unlikely that we would see 60fps on PS4 and 30fps on Xbox One. The PS4 has 50% more gpu performance, but to render twice the amount of frames literally takes twice the amount of gpu power so the PS4 would need to be 100% more powerful in order to run the same game that's 30fps on Xbox One at 60fps on PS4. Unless you want the PS4 version to look worse. Instead, expect more solid framerates (closer adherence to 30fps), better anti-aliasing, a few higher precision effects, etc. It will be a noticeable difference, believe me. But a 30fps difference is very unlikely.
What are the best looking games on either console thus far and compare those two in terms of scale, amount of effects per character, and other next-genny factors and you'll have an early winner.
god, another blind fanboy that doesnt understand how technology works. first party will look better maybe on ps4, multis will look the same, do you really think the xbox one is that much weaker than ps4? you didnt watch the conference a few days ago about dx11.2 and the new tech they are using which will be in xbox one? that new tech competes with the gddr5 on ps4. Maybe you should go watch it before making such bling assumptions and being such a fanboy
@Ballseye Stop sending me messages just because you are out of Bubbles, babyboy! Stop talking crap then maybe you can get more bubbles. Ask mommy to teach you Idiots will always be idiots
Well being a PC gamer id say MS and Sony have both been pretty hush about the GPUs. Getting any sort of technical knowledge has been almost impossible. While one has been promoting the Cloud the other has been high on crack talking up a RAM spec thats outdated few months into the consoles life lol. We will get to see the real differences once some PC tech site gets their hands on these consoles, rips them apart and does a real analysis on whats in these boxes, just like what happened with the Wii U. Let me remind you guys what happened with the Wii U: http://www.anandtech.com/sh... In the end it was figured out the Wii U was no where as powerful as Nintendo wanted us to believe. @below not arguing PS4 will be ahead, just saying overall we probably will be in for a surprise once someone actually opens a real box. Come to think of it both of them are using Tablet / net book CPUs. Ever equipped a PC with a mid range GPU then backed that up with a Low end CPU? Overall the system becomes CPU limited, MS might have done the smart thing by balancing the tablet CPU with a equivalent GPU. Who knows, Sony just might find themselves in a situation where they cant take advantage of the GPU due to a weak CPU.
We've had extensive analysis' on these devices already, plenty, Digital Foundry included. The conclusion is always the same. The PS4 is ahead. No way to spin it at this point. Edit: Disagree with fact all you want. The bottom line will not alter. ^^ The CPUs are very similar (in fact, practically the same). Not sure why you're even bringing that up.
What "surprise" would there be? Nothing is going to change suddenly. The main specs are known.
Decrypt, how much would a PC that can play Planetside 2 Max settings cost?
@CGI-Quality XB1 and PS4 all have 8 core CPUs, but in the XB1 only 6 are available for developers.
@newmonday: Five. The XB1 can only use five of its eight GB of RAM because the three OS its uses take up 1GB each.
Hammad just owned it.
@HammadTheBeast "Decrypt, how much would a PC that can play Planetside 2 Max settings cost?" Why do you ask? its not like any of the next consoles are confirmed to run Planetside 2 at max settings. Compare apples to apples, no point comparing a ferrari to a ford focus then complaining about price lol. There are very reasonably priced configurations that can run Planetside 2 at very good settings.
"Being a PC gamer", why are you chipping in on a console discussion?
@Decrypt http://www.thegamersdrop.co... Apples to apples
So does the XB1 use 9GB of RAM with it's OS using up 3GB, has something changed about it three OSs that I don't know about, or is the Xbox camp just that bad at math? Cause last time I checked both the PS3 and XB1 use 8GB of RAM, and 8 - 3 = 5. Not 6.
@decrypt Funny, the devs themselves said it would run on max settings on PS4. Search the playstation youtube channel for the E3 Planetside 2 interview. Ouch.
The Xb1 will be able to use whatever RAM that the hypervisor doesn't take, example if the hypervisor takes 0.5 gigs then it can allocate as much as 7.5 gigs for games if the game needs that much, or 7 gigs if the hypervisor uses 1 gig
@Elit Hypervisor doesn't really work like that. It can free up resources by suspending services, but for what MS is showing it looks like most of those services are on demand. This means that quickly switching between apps/games/whatever wouldn't be near instantaneous as they are promoting. The best analogy I can come up with is for those that are familiar with the XMB on the PS3, and yes the PS3 does use a couple hypervisors, one for it's OS, and one as a critical part of it's copy protection. When you press the PS button the game usually pauses, and then the XMB loads somewhat slowly due to many of the services needed for it to be run being suspended while in a game play state. It's also why many features aren't available while a game is running because they can't restart enough of them because a game's services can't be suspended unless each developer programmed that into their code, which they aren't likely to do. Vita's OS also works on a hypervisor. It has almost near instantaneous switching on apps/games/whatever. However, memory available to games is constant. Memory is not freed up for game play use to such a degree, if at all. The hypervisor allows them to free up resources being used by a game however to run those other apps. This works on a mobile system because you really can't run most apps simultaneously. The ones you can, can't be suspended, which seems the case for most of the features of the X1(Browse web, watch TV, play game, Skype, etc all while playing a game). I'm not doubting that hypervisor will be able to free up some memory for games, but this thought that it can free up another 2/3's or more of an OS's memory footprint is absurd. Particularly if you want to be able to do all these multi-tasking things that MS is making such a big deal about.
Only one ps4 game is running at 30fps hahaha soo much power right?
Reading comprehension can be a useful skill in today's job market. He didn't say every game would be 60fps.
Lol this site is a joke 95 percent of the game that they shown for xbone was running at 60fps.....but yet all I here is xbone is weaker but as it stands today the games on xbone performance are better then ps4 hahahahahahahaha call me a troll or whatever the truth hurts u sony fanboy @mysticstrummer you better be a Harvard graduate or something lol
@Epic-Twat ALOT of xbone games will be 30fps you can take that to the bank.
those games shown weren't even running on a xbone dev kit
Sooo he's got mad and call me epic twat lmfao @nnodley how do you know Forza sacrifice anything????? Have u played it???? What proof do u have??? The game looks must better then drive club......like I said before u can say the ps4 is the most powerful console all u want....but tell me this why cant they get their game's running at 60 frames per second huh?????
The epic_troy's been mad since the Xbone180 reveal and E3 conference. Another b0t don'd by Pon Patrick.
@ Troy: The xbone didn't run any game; it was all on kits or something, so that's not an indicator at all; the other thing is that people were saying that the xbone's GPU was having problems even being created, so it's existence is even in question until those things are hammered out.
All Xbox One games at E3 were running on high end PCs, and not the actual hardware. (PS4 did this also, but I believe some were running on dev kits) It just means pretty much any X1 visuals of games seen are not accurate, and probably will change. Just because a high end PC can run it at 60fps, doesn't mean the X1 will
lol, people actually think PS4 games are going to automatically look better because of the similar architecture. I'm just gonna' wait for the NEW excuses devs come up with in the 8th gen... XD http://m.neogaf.com/showthr...
They don't look similar to me.
you better wait for naugty new IP...you will see, NEW best looking game
And you're linking The Order: 1886 why?
Exactly my point these sony fanboys talk specs spec's spec's like their a developer or something just enjoy the game's both systems has too offer just buy both......and just forget about Nintendo they suck now lol
I saw this thread, first of all, this is a trailer, not gameplay. So there is no indication that gameplay will be letterboxed. Hysteria.
It was a cinematic trailer.
Epic, funny how you all of a sudden you wanna take a diplomatic stance after getting your ass handed to you. Also, quit laughing at your own trolling, it doesnt make the bs you spew more believable, just more pathetic. Thirdly i would buy a wii u as a 2nd console waaaaay before that shitbox. Atleast nintendo has unique ips and features. Microsoft is a greedy, bloodsucking corporation.
jonathan blow is now some sort of god on n4g. yet any dev that says anything positive has their credibility called into question.. bu bu but i thought that devs had to downgrade their games on ps3 to make them equal to the 360?? now i am confused. so was they downgrading? were they lazy? or is now the ps3 not as capable as the 360???????? make your mind up. ffs i have never seen someone troll as much as you lets wait and see the confirmed specs, then the games before we start the circle jerk ey.. and no i aint mad, my ps4 is already on pre-order with killzone. i see that all your effort and life spent on n4g writing the same stuff over and over has paid off in the bubbles department... you certainly are dedicated.
Me and you and a handful of other people on here are traitors to the causes buying both systems at launch huh?
I never heard anything about downgrading a game on PS3 to make the counterpart equal. But to this day, people who have not a clue about development say that developers were lazy on the triple. Fact is, PS3 was difficult as hell to develop on, unnecessarily difficult, and people don't want to understand that third party devs have no obligation to go above and beyond for either Sony OR Microsoft, especially when they have time constraints for their projects and a bottom line for their own company. The difference now is PS4 is a developer paradise, and it still retains the hardware power advantage. That is going to be key.
@KwietStorm Final Fantasy 13 downgraded once it became multi-plat. There were all sorts of comparison write ups over that. The $100 cheaper price is also going to be key.
@warewolf Same way i feel at times when i come on. I game on both PS and Xbox and when i comment on something im a troll or my opinion is shit. Im cool with it tho, let em keep hitting disagrees all day. meanwhile im gonna get back to this blunt and work.
absolutely warewolf. if you aint a hardcore sony warrior on here, you are not welcome kwietstorm, you have never seen people write that games are being downgraded or held back so that they are equal?? seriously
It is in every developers contract with M$ that the xbox copy of all 3rd party game must be comparably equal with no noticeable differences compared to other platforms. Breaking this agreement can result in M$ not allowing the game to be on xbox. And only big studios dare stand up to M$ BC M$ wants the AAA games. therefore, M$ IS holding the industry back by not allowing 3rd party games to shine on playstation the way playstation first/second party games outshine all others.
You're really taking something Johnatan blow said as fact? Also we still don't know the official specs of the GPU. This article adds nothing. Its just beating a dead horse, how did this get approved?
Sony fanboys. All they had to read was "PS4 holds a spec advantage over the Xbox One. The system has better RAM but the CPU is quite similar." AND BOOM, article approved. EVEN if the official specs havent been released.
Pfft @ pfft.
How does Blow even know. Im asking seriously because as I know it, he isn't even developing for the XBone is he?
yes. the witness is a timed exclusive so i guess its eventually coming to xb1