760°

Xbox One graphics capabilities, odd SoC architecture, and bus bandwidth confirmed by Microsoft

Here’s the important points, for comparison’s sake. The CPU cache block attaches to the GPU MMU, which drives the entire graphics core and video engine. Of particular interest for our purposes is this bit: “CPU, GPU, special processors, and I/O share memory via host-guest MMUs and synchronized page tables.” If Microsoft is using synchronized page tables, this strongly suggests that the Xbox One supports HSA/hUMA and that we were mistaken in our assertion to the contrary. Mea culpa.

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extremetech.com
thetruthx13910d ago

"The underlying architecture is very similar to a super-charged APU with much higher internal bandwidth than a normal AMD chip"

Hmmm things are getting very interesting

4Sh0w3910d ago (Edited 3910d ago )

Nice deeper look at the specs from extremetech. X1 is customized up the ...! That chip is packing some surprising punch, with stuff like DirectX 11.1+, eSRAM, and the 109-204gb's of improved bandwith has my head exploding, plus no mention of the 8gb flash memory I read on a previous thread or am I confusing myself with something else? Damm its going to be very interesting to see the Digital Foundry bench tests once these 2 monsters release.

thetruthx13910d ago

Yup it'll also have 8 gigs of flash memory. Ms also said they have some things in the Xbox One that they don't want the competitors knowing about

4Sh0w3910d ago

I thought so. Are they purposely keeping some spec info under the radar? I wonder what the hell that 8gb flash memory does?

PrimeGrime3910d ago (Edited 3910d ago )

@4Sh0w

The internal flash is used to store the new Xbox One's massive OS and firmware updates, also to alleviate space on the non removable HDD. Nothing more, if you are hoping it can free up RAM usage that the OS will need. Well we aren't there yet.

That is just impossible to use flash memory to run the entire OS. PC's can't even currently do that.

So to answer your question that is what they are using it for to store the OS, it will still use a certain amount of the systems RAM to operate.

NextGen24Gamer3910d ago (Edited 3910d ago )

Developers have been pleasantly surprised by the extra power the xbox one has due to the custom architecture in the xbox one. 8 gigs of ram, 8 gigs of flash memory, 2 extra custom cores for the hd audio, etc....

Here is a quote from the article:

If the cache really is 1024 bits wide, and the developers can make suitable use of it, then the Xbox One’s performance might surprise us.

This technical unveil confirms much of what we suspected about the chip, but throws us for some curves in other areas. All in all, a great session.

slivery3910d ago

@Elite24Gamer

Those 2 audio chips are for the new Kinect and its audio processes.

PrimeGrime3910d ago (Edited 3910d ago )

Lol I love how many are disagreeing with pure facts. Flash memory cannot be used to run the OS but only to store it.

Why do you think the Xbox One's HDD and internal flash memory are using in conjunction with each other. Simple.

Jesus I am not shitting on the thing.

I am just explaining what the internal flash is used for. What else would be used for then? Since you can't use flash memory like RAM.

Please correct me then don't just disagree.

Lol ever since I got slasher716 or w/e his name is in trouble since then every time I comment. I get one disagree immediately..

Bennibop3910d ago

109 - 204 gb is theoretical bandwidth, this is just Microsoft spin the reality will be around 109 - 150. Sony I am sure could release some theoretical figures too!

kupomogli3910d ago

@Bennibop

Since only the 32MB ESRAM is 204GB/s most of it's going to be 109GB/s. Developers will probably be able to have the 8GB of slower ram not drop the commonly used textures and stuff that's not commonly used might go onto the 32MB first and then drop off the 32MB after it's on the DDR3.

It'll work well if the game is developed well, but the GDDR5 will run at a static speed, so giving developers less of a chance to make a mistake on filtering ram back and forth when there's only one pool to do it.

NewMonday3910d ago

- 8g of Flash is most likely used to store the OS and system resources separately from the HDD, and that is to make it harder to crack.

- HSA/hUMA are not the same, hUMA concerns memory, HSA concerns processing, and the XB1 chip presentation did not state the use of hUMA or HSA or described a process that is similar.

NextGenHorny3910d ago (Edited 3910d ago )

Since the 8GB flash memory matches the RAM size, I guess it will be used for some kind of system suspension.
Instead of saving the RAM memory content to disk, it saves it to the flash memory, which I believe it's faster access than an HDD.

Tw1tch3D3909d ago (Edited 3909d ago )

@ Bennibop

"Theoretical bandwidth" makes no difference in either consoles, whether it be PS4's 176 GB/s or XOne's 204 GB/s ESRAM.

Sony's PS4 will NEVER hold a rate of 176 GB/s, but marking it at that point shows how much developers can work with. Same thing goes for XOne.

So if 109 GB/s is the minimum and 204 is peak and the ESRAM points to the GPU...well, that goes to show how much the developers can work with and not that they'll have difficulty going beyond 109 GB/s.

The question now is what is the ESRAM used for?!

...and the last question is a hint to Kupomogli on what his meaning of the term "commonly used textures" on the CPU, as if the CPU will be heavily used for graphics?! Doubt that!

@ newmonday

"..hUMA concerns memory, HSA concerns processing..."

Whaaa?!

There is no difference between the two, only that hUMA truly facilitates memory coherency. Do you understand what you post before doing it? Probably a twitter habit, right??

Computersaysno3909d ago (Edited 3909d ago )

The architecture is a bit of a mish mash created simply because Microsoft didn't think they could use faster memory in the shape of GDDR5.

In that sense it is overly complicated and patched up to try and help the weakness using DDR3 was going to create for the machine, that is not enough memory bandwidth for serious graphics performance.

We have to remember that is the only reason this complicated memory architecture exists, NOT because it is better than straight up massive chunk of unified memory.

Sony illustrated that they could theoretically have a small chunk of esram with bandwidth on the scale of 1000 gigabytes per second, but this was just not as good as having a large pool of memory with 'only' 176Gb/s.

If these small chunks of very fast on die memory were so helpful to graphics architectures, then PC graphics cards would be chock full of it.

The fact is its still a waste of die space for them. Its still much better to just use the space for extra shaders or TMUs and have a medium sized memory bus with high speed GDDR5.

Thats how every high end GPU still does it. Sony gambled choosing GDDR5 and it has paid off mega stylee. Microsoft have a slower architecture packed with more complex buses and a more difficult chip to get yields on.

Its hilarious really, Microsoft provided the best programming environment with the most straight forward machine in X360, and it worked fantastically for them. Sony created this fiddly machine in PS3 to accommodate their CELL processor and separate memory banks that devs grappled with for years.

This new generation is the ultimate role reversal.

Athonline3909d ago

^To some people above:

HSA is part of the Jaguar APUs' architecture. There isn't ANY way the XBox could have a Jaguar-based APU and not HSA. HSA specifications are set by the HSA Foundation: http://hsafoundation.com/st...
which AMD HAS to implement and as a result, both Sony and Microsoft have to.

hUMA is AMD implementation of an HSA-like solution in traditional Von Neumann architectures X86(and X86-64) PCs to allow a shared memory pool to be used. hUMA is NOT part of the HSA specification and NOT the same. It is like an a poor, incomplete implementation of the HSA specifications, as HSA is NOT possible within a PC.
Similar to AMD's hUMA nVidia is launching Maxwell-architecture GPUs to allow shared memory access.

Both PS4 and XBOne got HSA in their APUs and none has nor needs hUMA.

HSA is an actual STANDARD set by a consortium of companies. hUMA is a MARKETING name for an AMD technology.

If you want, you can enjoy reading "brainless journalism", who try for a bit of internet traffic feed people with false info or incomplete statements.

aceitman3909d ago

the 8 gig of flash was rumored for the interactive ads.

+ Show (11) more repliesLast reply 3909d ago
ma1asiah3910d ago (Edited 3910d ago )

You got to love this bit s well

"Of particular interest for our purposes is this bit: “CPU, GPU, special processors, and I/O share memory via host-guest MMUs and synchronized page tables.” If Microsoft is using synchronized page tables, this strongly suggests that the Xbox One supports HSA/hUMA and that we were mistaken in our assertion to the contrary"

I mean it doesn't confirm that they actually do but it is more and more looking highly likely.

As for unrevealed details that only makes logical sense. I mean its not like you want to show all your cards too early it is a war after all.

Man that 8 GB of flash memory if they do the same as they did with the X360 by using that for the OS then we could see even more of the pool of DDR3 RAM freed up for other uses.

Plus the hypervisor which can dial up and down resource allocation to where most needed.

Loving the X1 more and more

NextGen24Gamer3910d ago

It's definitely good stuff. I'm with you. I'm loving the xbox one more and more as well. This is what they meant by saying it's rocket science stuff in the box.

It definitely looks like it. MS knew what they were doing all along. That's why they kept saying it's not only about the raw numbers that Sony was throwing out there.

What is even more interesting is they decided not to talk about specifics under the hood until Sony announced their launch date. Just to make sure they didn't change their tech in an attempt to compete.

kneon3910d ago (Edited 3910d ago )

If they used flash in place if ram not only would it be incredibly slow but it would burn through the read/write cycles of the chip in no time.

The flash is for storing the os or its another form of data cache, basically a mini ssd.

JP13693910d ago (Edited 3910d ago )

Elite-
"What is even more interesting is they decided not to talk about specifics under the hood until Sony announced their launch date. Just to make sure they didn't change their tech in an attempt to compete."

Why would Sony need to change tech when they're already ahead?

50% More shaders
50% more texture units
50% more compute units
Twice the ROPS
Better RAM that is easier to get the most out of.
Also has dedicated audio chip

Sorry, MS themselves confirmed 1.3 TFLOPS, while PS4 is sitting at 1.8. No amount of spin and PR buzzwords will overcome that advantage.

juggulator3910d ago

@JP1369
This is a comment thread for an X1 article. Most people commenting here don't care that PS4s specs prove its 50% more powerful(except maybe you and me). To them those specs are "raw numbers" which begs the question, if Sonys PS4 specs are raw numbers then what is all those specs/numbers mentioned in this article?

JP13693909d ago (Edited 3909d ago )

juggalator-
" To them those specs are "raw numbers" which begs the question, if Sonys PS4 specs are raw numbers then what is all those specs/numbers mentioned in this article?"

Are you dense? You know exactly what those numbers are.
The reason I commented is to clear up the nonsense that people love to spew in articles like these. Saying that Sony needs to change tech to compete is, in fact, nonsense. Sony fanboys can be pretty bad as well, but I haven't seen as many of them willfully ignore the facts and succumb to hearsay, conspiracy theory and full-on delusion in an attempt to justify their purchase. The One will have great games and I'm sure millions of people will enjoy their experience with it. However, it won't be the most powerful console on the market, not by some margin. There's nothing wrong with that and - until recently - you heard many people in the MS camp say that graphics aren't all that important, yet it seems many of them have changed their tune now that official specs have been released. Unfortunately for them, all the specs do is confirm what we already knew. This is what is confusing and sad and pathetic about the situation; that is has remained pretty much the same, but a certain fanbase is acting as if some game changer just occured. Well, it hasn't. Deal with it.

ma1asiah3909d ago

Could Microsoft somehow have managed to have implemented Fusion ioMemory to work with in the architecture of the X1???? possibly maybe?????

The virtual memory subsystem abstracts logical data addresses from their physical location by creating a directory of data locations. In modern OSs, a 64-bit virtual address space is used to organize and partition data used by the applications and users. Below this virtual address space lays the physical RAM, which has a much smaller address space. Operating systems and applications use this virtual interface to RAM (called the page table) to look up the physical location of data using a directory rather than requiring massive quantities of RAM just to satisfy each application's memory address space.

Similar to page tables in the host virtual memory subsystem, VSL virtualizes Flash via "block tables." VSL translates block requests to physical ioMemory addresses, also analogous to the virtual memory subsystem. It's important to note that these block tables are stored in host memory. This is a key advantage over other solid-state architectures (e.g. SSDs) that store block tables only in embedded RAM, where block tables are accessible only behind legacy storage protocols.

MarkusMcNugen3909d ago (Edited 3909d ago )

@JP1369
"Sony fanboys can be pretty bad as well, but I haven't seen as many of them willfully ignore the facts and succumb to hearsay, conspiracy theory and full-on delusion in an attempt to justify their purchase."

Sure they have. Kinect spybox comes to mind. That is a conspiracy theory an full-on delusion that PS4 fanboys have been spouting to defend their purchase of a PS4 and convince others to do the same.

And if not to defend their purchase than to try and convince others to participate in the delusion and buy their preferred console.

Trust me, both sides are guilty. Xbox fanboys defend the Xbox One without understanding the specs and how they compare, and PS4 fanboys attack the Xbox One because of specs they dont understand.

juggulator3904d ago (Edited 3904d ago )

@JP1369

First let's get one thing straight. I've been gaming since playing Asteroids and Pole Psotion on an Atari and have a college degree in level design. I work with game engines like UE3 and CRYENGINE on a daily basis. I know exactly what the specs of boths systems are. I comment on here for recreation, you comment here for a living and I will not be disprespected by some incognito delusonal fanboy.

"50% More shaders
50% more texture units
50% more compute units
Twice the ROPS "

Yes but HOW MANY of each cuz you sound like your spitting out raw numbers. Sony has provided the exact specs of what their CPU/GPU. MS is saying "you may get over 200/gbps depending on whether or not the 32MB of ESRAM is properly utilized" and obviously there are devs that are doing that because Ryse and Titanfall exist and they look damn good.

The sad thing is that I was initially agreeing with you but the "blinders" have obviously blurred your vision. And I won't be issuing or accepting any apologies either. I want to remain as respectful as possible as I know this is a comment thread for an X1 article but I've been a PlayStation gamer for over 20 years and that won't be changing because some article comes out claiming there's "new info" about the X1's architecture when in reality it's stuff that I knew before MS's reveal prior to E3.

I may be able to tolerate being called dense on the day that I exchange my Dualshock for something else, until then I don't f**cking think so.

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 3904d ago
PrimeGrime3910d ago

Not trying to rain on your parade but it isn't anything new. I talked about this a couple days ago. Especially if anyone has been reading up on AMD's APU's lately.

Both the PS4 and Xbox APU's are based off of the same high performance technology used in the Kaveri APU planned to be released in early 2014.

The only difference is they are still based off of Jaguar cores and the Kaveri is steamroller cores but its still very new tech none the less.

They are both customized and everyone should be excited if you are Playstation fan or Xbox fan to see what these new APU's bring to the table.

kewlkat0073910d ago (Edited 3910d ago )

Nobody has yet to tell me what the 8GB flash ram is for?

I didn't know Microsoft customize that ship so much...
http://www.reactiongifs.com...

The XboxOne might not have the better GPU but if it were a Race car, it would have a more efficient and very very zippy Pitcrew looking at the architecture.

bromtown3910d ago

People have said above - probably for storing the operating system since the HDD is non replaceable. However it's not for running the OS as some people have been saying, a) it's not quick enough, and b) Flash memory has a finite number of read/write operations before it craps out, so running an operating system from it would kill it super fast.

NextGenHorny3910d ago

I guess it will be used for some kind of system suspension, as it matches the RAM size.

Omegasyde3909d ago (Edited 3909d ago )

@Bromtown.

Finally someone address that. The OS will be written to the HDD (despite not being able to be removed except by MS).

The 8 gig flash is a bit concerning as even the best quality flash drives have a limited read/write limit.

My guess is it used for storing background permanent information (I.e. "Software licenses") and has an advanced form of anti-hacking encryption on it. This leads me to believe that Major Nelson was right in a sense, that DRM can't be just turned off with a "switch".

IMHO, unless it was retooled for another purpose, the Xbox one might not even use the flash memory because of their reversal of policies after the FCC submission. It could possibly still store licences, but if thats true 8 gigs seems like overkill.

MarkusMcNugen3909d ago

@Omegasyde
"The 8 gig flash is a bit concerning as even the best quality flash drives have a limited read/write limit."

True, but it all depends on whether its SLC or MLC for how many read/writes it can take before the end of its life. Id also like to point out that every smart phone has flash storage as well, and most of those have yet to die from read/writes.

Pretty sure my android phone is writing to and reading from the flash memory storage a ton and its alive and well. Hell, my old iPhone 3G is still working fine and I cant tell you the number of times Ive had to reload my 20000 songs to it.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 3909d ago
nosferatuzodd3909d ago (Edited 3909d ago )

when it comes to hardware we all know who's king Samsung GE sharp all get help by Sony on hardware if it was software related then Microsoft would have the advantage but hardware please we are not worried about their theory 204 gbs second its just wishful thinking to trick ppl on their under power console look at the fact no matter how they over clock and es ram they're just making the system more difficult to work with they're going to overclock until every Xbox one catch fire in ppl houses I'm going to laugh at the RRoD that's coming i don't trust Microsoft with a dish washer much less a console

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 3904d ago
stuna13910d ago

And from your comments I'm willing to bet that you think that Microsoft are the only one that have something up their sleeve that they don't want the competition to know about!? After all you are about the truth!

I'm sure both have secret sauce in their architecture.

ThatCanadianGuy5143910d ago

PS4: 1152 Shaders
Xbone: 768 Shaders

PS4: 72 Texture units
Xbone: 48 Texture units

PS4: 32 ROPS
Xbone: 16 ROPS

Doesn't change the cold hard facts.

ThatCanadianGuy5143910d ago

Facts are spam now?
How convenient.

Skips3910d ago (Edited 3910d ago )

DayZ

But some don't like facts... They'd rather cling to "theoretical", "powah of ze ClOuD!!", and rainbows and dreams and whatnot... lol On paper, PS4 is definitely more powerful from what I understand...

And the games do show it, no doubt...

http://s.pro-gmedia.com/vid...
http://s.pro-gmedia.com/vid...
vs.
http://s.pro-gmedia.com/vid...
http://s.pro-gmedia.com/vid...

I admit, Forza 5 does look incredible...
http://a.pomf.se/3El1.gif

But I could honestly say the SAME thing about DriveClub... lol http://a.pomf.se/5Cj7.gif

^^Courtesy of GribbleGrunger...

EDIT: @badkolo...

Not sure if serious??? :/

Anyways, as good as Titanfall looks. It doesn't even come close... lol

https://www.googledrive.com...
https://www.googledrive.com...
vs.
http://i.minus.com/ibkLh2II...
http://i.minus.com/iSylqprP...

Ritsujun3910d ago

YeH yOu cAn'T beEt tEh pAwaA of za ClouDz.

badkolo3910d ago

skips, your first killzone pic is not gameplay , try harder. when the gameplay starts all that prettyness gets blurred, watch killzone videos again to see the truth

u got owned3910d ago

From "theWB27";

Bugattii- 1000 horsepower 270mph 0-60 2 seconds
Nurburgring- 7:40 mins
Top Gear- 1:16 mins

Nissan GT-R-Stats- 480HP 193mph 0-60 3.2 seconds
Nurburgring- 7:24 mins
Top Gear- 1:17 mins

Game design isn't a straight line."

enough said!

ALLWRONG3910d ago

The people who deny cloud or cloud computing (See OnLive) have the same mind set as those who thought electricity was magic. The same kind of people who tried to discredit Genetics or DNA.

In other words "denial"

JokesOnYou3910d ago (Edited 3910d ago )

ssshhh you're making too much sense. I keep telling them the performance difference is so close its mute, devs and money will determine quality of games. It will however be interesting to see the backtracking when real world bench tests highlight X1 advantages.

GribbleGrunger3910d ago (Edited 3910d ago )

@badkolo: I wasn't going to post anything until I saw your post.

"skips, your first killzone pic is not gameplay , try harder. when the gameplay starts all that prettyness gets blurred, watch killzone videos again to see the truth"

1080p comparison. Keep an eye on the shadows, lighting and reflections as well as the density of action and the near photorealism of textures:

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Fun fact: The KZS footage is 1080p/60fps

Don't get me wrong though, Titanfall will be a fantastic game and well worth the purchase.

Deadpoolio3910d ago

It's amazing how with Xbots facts are suddenly Spam or just someone being a hater....It's weaker get over it, the One80 will never be as powerful, the cloud will never do what you people think it will especially graphically....

But that doesn't mean the One80 is a slouch, it's just weaker....So what games will still look nice on it

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 3910d ago
Arrrriibaa3910d ago (Edited 3910d ago )

More money > less money.

edit: oohh nice pc fanboys disliking a fact, nothing new them PC fanboys haha!.

madpuppy3910d ago

If you are so enamoured by the PC, why are you spamming console threads? wouldn't you just stay where you are with like-minded gamers?

_QQ_3910d ago (Edited 3910d ago )

Then why is he spamming XBOX threads? of course i'm not surprised, the white damage control knights don't come out on this site untill Sony gets criticism. plus why would i dislike someone claiming that i have allot of money?yeah more money,better graphics too,better indie scene, better options,better performance,better online community,More games. Cold hard facts right?

LucasEVille3910d ago

What's wrong with choosing a console and using your pc? Unless your just staying with pc in which case why are you even commenting on console articles?

Narutone663910d ago

@lopez_josue,
Since your beloved XB1 is losing on specs, you have to resort to PC to win an argument.

kneon3910d ago

Why bother? Because the games you want to play are only available on one of the consoles.

That's the only reason you need.

_QQ_3910d ago

@Narutone Yep my beloved X1,I guess being unbiased now days means you are a fanboy. I don't give an ass about the X1.

wtopez3909d ago

I agree with Lopez_Josue. If you're gonna swing your PS4 specs d*ck around an Xbox thread, don't moan when a PC user drops, as DayZ would put it, "cold hard facts".

PS4: 1152 Shaders
GTX 770: 1536 Shaders

PS4: 72 Texture units
GTX 770: 128 Texture units

This is from a Mid/High end GPU that has been out for months. By the time the consoles are out, AMD will have launched it's new line of GPUs and Nvidia will have revised it's GTX 700 series. That is only this year and it happens every year.

Sevir3909d ago

Sooooo are you going to Spend $600 to upgrade so you can PLAY the SAME multiplatform Games which currently have PS3/Xbox 360 as their BASELINE, just so you can GLOSS over Framerates and Resolution? the overall story and gameplay dont matter, EVEN if its just a high res console port!?

LOL keep playing the resolution and framerate game.

But if a game runs steady and looks pretty on one console the overall experience is THE SAME across the board, even with high res assets and higher frame rates!

Just saying.

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 3909d ago
maniacmayhem3910d ago

All of that and the games shown for Xbox One still look excellent.

torchic3910d ago (Edited 3910d ago )

I don't think anybody ever said that they wouldn't look excellent.

they just won't look as good as PS4, (especially 1st party) that's it. that is nothing to be ashamed of though, 360 users enjoyed their 1st party titles even though they didn't look as good as PS3 1st party titles.

Death3910d ago

The same ones talking about PS4's superiority also claimed the PS3 would be "TrueHD" 1080p for everything released. They also said Blu-ray made PS3 games look better.

Here's a nice flashback to 2005 http://www.ign.com/articles...

The PS3 GPU was also rated at 1.8 Tflops by Sony so you will have to excuse me if I don't seem to overly excited by Sony's claims for the PS4.

torchic3909d ago

holy fudgecakes! disagrees! what did I say wrong?

1st party PS3 games looked better than 1st party 360 games.

devs already saying that PS4 versions of multiplats will look a bit better (Rivals, Warframe)

these are indisputable facts people! not trying to trash 360 or Xbox One!

@death

if that's somewhat directed at me, just note that I was 12 in 2005, blissfully unaware of such topics.

nightfallfilms3910d ago

No its SPAM when you post it in every single article. I could probably go onto a non gaming website and find you posting this crap.

CPTN MITCHELL3910d ago

What about xbone fans with the no game spam

MarkusMcNugen3909d ago

@CPTIN MITCHELL

They are both stupid. Fanboys are stupid, thats all there really is to it. Not stupid as in unintelligent, stupid as in blind to anyone elses interests other than their own.

tuglu_pati3910d ago

@DayZ

Spam much...

i don't see any mention or comparison with the PS4 in the article. So its obvious that you are trolling.

corvusmd3910d ago (Edited 3910d ago )

@ Day Z Well this is based on old SUSPECTED figures..not to mention it's just a SMALL slice of the over all picture, you keep focusing on the paper specs you like....you'll get left in the dust...you've been warned.

PS3 did this SAME thing last gen...and it's still getting whooped at the end of the gen in graphics and playability. Open your mind a little, and stop focusing on paper specs that are outdated and mean little to nothing

cell9893910d ago

Um... Show me something on the 360 that looks and plays better than The Last Of Us, Uncharted 3, God of War Acension, or Two souls. Exactly stfu and try harder

ziggurcat3910d ago

Suspected specs that are confirmed.

How is PS3 being whooped? Because it's widely known that graphics in 1st party titles have far surpassed that of the X360. 3rd party titles have also reached parity in terms of graphical fideltiy, and are increasingly surpassing the X360. And where are you getting that nonsense about playability from?

MysticStrummer3910d ago

"PS3 did this SAME thing last gen...and it's still getting whooped at the end of the gen in graphics and playability."

There goes any hope of credibility.

fooltheman3910d ago

I once had a guy over who only had a 360 and had played halo 4...
and even him had to confess Killzone looked a lot better... He was even impressed by all the first party games...

3910d ago
StrangerX3909d ago

@cell 989

well if you insist!then:
Crysis 2&3,
Halo 4
Alan Wake
Gears of War 3
Forza 3&4

Sevir3909d ago

StrangerX....

OK well lets compare.

Crysis 2 and 3 on Xbox 360 to Killzone 2 and 3 on PS3... it isn't Crysis

Again Halo 4 compared to Killzone 3 still falls flat.

You said Alan WAKE? let me say it like the form MS exec Don Mattrick... "HAVE YOU SEEN..." BEYOND: 2 Souls?

Gears of War 3... OK! UNCHARTED 2 or Uncharted 3 or better yet THE LAST OF US! Which ever do you pick the out come remains.

Forza 3/4? GT6 lets not play blind here! Visually PS3 exclusives hold the crown and always will!

but can we just stay on Topic here, this isn't about teh PS4's superior specs or the PS3s first party game comparisons to the xbox 360... Its about MS confirming what we all already knew about the XBO's internals with some interesting additions.

As it stands Now the XBOX is exactly the machine that it was predicted to be even when MS was being ambiguous and left tech junkies to scrounge for facts while they through out 5 billion transistor GPU and cloud powered.

Its a marked step up over the xbox 360... IT'll have some great games, Hello Titan Fall! but thats it. Acting as if the detailed info on the MS finally revealed makes the console magically more stronger than it already is silly. It is a POUND for POUND exact confirmation on the performance of the machine that many tech sites have deduced months prior MS just made it official. Lets get back to waiting for the great games coming out at launch for these 2 devices!

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 3909d ago
badkolo3910d ago

then this will be the first time you see a lower powered system trounce a 40% more powerful system, cause no one is even denying the facts,, the games look better on the x1

ziggurcat3910d ago

"the games look better on the x1"

Subjective opinion, not fact.

JamieL3910d ago

@ ziggurcat
Yep, sure is, just like every PS4 zealot on here talking about how much better the PS4 is, before the damn thing has even come out. Why is his opinion any different that the folks talking about how much they love the PS4? One more thing, why didn't you start your crusade way up there where this opinion BS started? I saw at least 5 PS fanboy opinions you could have targeted before this one from badkolo.

Funantic13910d ago

Your "facts" haven't been proven because no one but Microsoft understands their architecture. The more we learn about the X1 the more we find out that it's more powerful than what we originally thought. So your spec spam is just a spoof.

Quicktopick3910d ago (Edited 3910d ago )

maybe ur ryt... then maybe u arent. well c in a couple of months

PFFT3910d ago (Edited 3910d ago )

And this is a fact as well!

From "theWB27";

Bugattii- 1000 horsepower 270mph 0-60 2 seconds
Nurburgring- 7:40 mins
Top Gear- 1:16 mins

Nissan GT-R-Stats- 480HP 193mph 0-60 3.2 seconds
Nurburgring- 7:24 mins
Top Gear- 1:17 mins

Game design isn't a straight line."

I couldnt have said it better myself.
Thank you theWB27 and thanks to u got owned for re posting this awesome quote!

JackOfAllBlades3910d ago

And the GT-R is Japanese, the PS4 is Japanese, the PS4 is more powerful, the Veyron is more powerful. The best of both worlds, so the PS4 is far superior, I understand what you are getting at now.

:D

3910d ago
Narutone663910d ago

Lol at the comparison between the cars and game designs. Just like the power of the clouds, not everybody's internet is fiber optic, right? So based on that comparison, the power of the clouds is just wishful thinking.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 3910d ago
TheHierarchy3910d ago (Edited 3910d ago )

@DayZ

you know, I wonder in 6 years from now when things change again what you'll be saying then.

to me this tech comparison won't matter. we'll all be getting remasters of this upcoming gen's games in the future for the next consoles.

Bundles will be made and we'll all be buying the same sh3t because the gen after won't be backwards compatible with APUs and whatnot.

B-radical3910d ago

You are so annoying no one is denying that? Geeeee

starchild3910d ago

You're trolling because, while those are facts, they aren't all the facts.

You are only drawing attention to facts that support your bias.

BallsEye3910d ago

Here we go again.
RAW specs RAW specs.
By saying that XO is not on par even with ps4, you automaticly admit that ps3 is like a SNES compared to xbox 360. Why? Because X360 got WAY more raw power.

Funny how amazing looking games still came out on ps3. It must be magic or your facts don't mean sh!t.

http://www.examiner.com/ima...

Here you go. Now go do something useful.

Kingnichendrix3910d ago

let me just copy and paste something i pointed out to someone further down. "Ps3 is not 5x less capable in raw power are you out of your mind let me summarise just for you.
Cpu: Xbox 360 3.2-GHz PowerPC Tri-Core Xenon vs Ps3's 3.2 GHz Cell Broadband Engine x8 spes which work like cores one was reserved for os.
Gpu: Xbox 360 500 MHz ATI Xenos, Up to 512 MB GDDR3 RAM (shared w/ system RAM) and 10 MB eDRAM 21.6 GBps bandwidth (256 GBps via eDRAM) vs Ps3's RSX “Reality Synthesizer” @ 550MHz, 256 MB GDDR 3RAM (additional 224 MB can be shared w/ system RAM) and 22.4 GBps bandwidth
Total T-Flop performance: Xbox 360 1052 Gflops vs Ps3 1.8 Tflop's
Ram: Xbox 360 512 MB GDDR3 RAM (shared with GPU), 700 MHz speed and 22.4 Gbps bandwidth vs Ps3's 256 MB XDR RAM, 3.2 GHz speed and 25.6 Gbps bandwidth"

FrigidDARKNESS3910d ago

Lmao you people still klinging to those old specs from vgleaks.

JP13693909d ago

Oh, you mean the leak that these new specs confirm? The boost in performance is from increased GPU clock speeds, which means the numbers are still in line with what VGleaks reported. Good argument though...

Also, it's clinging. This isn't Mortal Kombat, learn to spell.

Belking3910d ago

lol..You can't measure performance with ROPS and FLOPS.

while the raw numbers would favor Sony, the real trick here is to try and output only what is required. MS custom design and the way they cached the heck out of this thing will easily match ps4 performance. The power gap that people thought was there just isn't, now that we have all the information from MS.

The real proof is in the games. xb1 games look just as good or even better than PS4....and they are running at better framerates.

JP13693909d ago

Killzone: Shadow Fall MP runs 1080P60. The only XBONE equivalents are Forza (baked lighting, racing game) and KI (fighting game). Your examples are poor.

"You can't measure performance with ROPS and FLOPS."

Actually, you can measure performance is ROPS and FLOPS, which is why these measurements even exist. The caching is done to overcome the slow DDR3, which may bring it on par with the PS4's GDDR5 (reports say the theoretical numbers for XBOne bandwidth is actually in the 150gb/s range). Still, that requires extra time and effort just to maybe get the memory on the One working as well as its competition. You're also ignoring the PS4's ability to bypass cache altogether and use multiple pipelines to ensure communication between CPU and CPU.
Still, that's only the memory. The One doesn't have the grunt to compete with PS4. Launch games are always a mixed bag, with devs constantly aiming at a moving target. I don't doubt the One will compare favorably this November, but things will change once the second wave comes out. It will only get worse from there, as people start to use compute functions on the PS4 that the One doesn't have.

To reiterate:
No amount of memory management will help the One develop more compute units, texture units, shaders or ROPS. These are physical limitations on the console and it's in this area that the One is completely outclassed. Enjoy your launch games, as they are the first and last generation on Xbone software that will be able to compete with PS4 graphically.

XabiDaChosenOne3909d ago

@JP1369
"Enjoy your launch games, as they are the first and last generation on Xbone software that will be able to compete with PS4 graphically."
Pretty much.

Badassbab3909d ago

@ Skips

Unfair screenshot comparisons. Let me explain why.

Titanfall is being developed on a heavily modified 'Source' game engine which was originally developed by Vale for Counterstrike and Half Life 2 way back in 2004. It's also 60FPS so only has 16.66ms to render an entire frame. In no way does Titanfall take full advantage of the Xbox One.

Killzone SF is on a game engine developed by first party developer Guerilla Games specifically for the PS4 from ground up. It's also a 30FPS SP so has twice as long to render a frame making for nicer looking graphics.

FM5 is like Titanfall a 60FPS game so 30 FPS Driveclub has twice as much time to render a frame which should mean it has a better chance of turning out to be the prettier game but in this instance it's not because Turn 10 are just better developers when it comes to extracting the most out of a console.

It really is down to the developer and the game engine used. If Killzone SF was 60FPS those screenshots would not have looked as good. In my opinion Titanfall looks like to have the better gameplay which is what matters in the end.

JP13693909d ago

Killzone multiplayer runs at 60 frames, just like Titanfall and it looks leagues ahead graphically. No other console game matches what is does and it does it at 1080P60.
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Also, if you knew anything about Respawn, they've modified - and in some cases completely rewritten - the Source code to take advantage of new tech. What they've been saying is that the Xbone version may not run at 1080P60.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

Forza 5 does look good, but it's using the same baked lighting tech Forza 3 used. Driveclub, on the other hand, is using full dynamic lighting with trackside detail and density that Forza can't match. The team have also stated, on multiple occasions, that they are aiming for 60 fps at launch.

Badassbab3908d ago

JP1369

Titanfall target frame rate is 60 for both SP and MP and as far as I can tell TF looks like the smoother game with more freedom of movement and with a lot more going on, Warzone looks to be the corridor MP experience from the video seen thus far and I can bet my bottom dollar it will be a perceptual 60fps while Titanfall will be more rock solid. As I said earlier Source has been heavily modified for TF but it's still not a ground up Xbone game engine like Killzone SF is on PS4 so it's still not a fair comparison. You can see the Source heritage right off the bat. Plus GG are masters of pushing hardware to the limit. Forgot to mention latency will most likely be superior on TF too.

I would hope Driveclub ends up looking better than F5 (not seen any evidence yet) since it's running at half the frame rate! The trackside detail and lighting you speak of, I don't see anything amazing over FM5. Also I would be surprised if DC turns up as a solid 60fps game. It may like GT5 be perceptual which I guess is ok for some.

Nocando3909d ago (Edited 3909d ago )

PS4: 1152 Shaders
Xbone: 768 Shaders

PS4: 72 Texture units
Xbone: 48 Texture units

PS4: 32 ROPS
Xbone: 16 ROPS

All of which amount to what? A few more FPS? A better texture here and there? Those are the cold hard facts, my friend.
However, if you want to talk specs, here is a great analogy: I have seen 4 cylinder cars beat 8 cylinder muscle cars in the quarter mile at a local track. It's not the horsepower, its what you do with it.

3909d ago
JP13693909d ago

Actually, it's torque, which is the baseline measurement for horsepower, that does it. I've also seen 4 cylinders that have more power than an 8. As has already been mentioned, your analogy is inaccurate and serves only to display your ignorance of cars, physics and tech.

Nocando3909d ago

Hey everybody, look at how much of an ahole DayZ is, he just PMed me this little gem:

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, so i'll forgive your ignorance.However, that analogy was just plain autistic.

You should be embarrassed, honestly.

3909d ago Replies(2)
DonFreezer3909d ago

Name one graphics card retailer that mentions those specs or shut your fucking mouth.The Sony pr bullcrap should stop. Just one retailer that has information on the rops and texture units of a graphics card.

+ Show (17) more repliesLast reply 3908d ago
MASTER_RAIDEN3910d ago

not sure what any of this means, but idc. just give me a next gen gta 5.

NOW PILE ON THE DISAGREES!

SchwoererBear3910d ago

Your comment makes more sense to me than anything on this thread. processor this and core that, IDK what da faque these people are talking about! show me the games! show me the games! I will pick a system and I will play games

KwietStorm_BLM3910d ago

Where is that article asking when did gamers stop caring about games?

Kingnichendrix3910d ago

if you are talking about graphics it is pretty nice to have a game thats also nice to look at you know. Imagine zelda ocarina of time with xbox one or ps4 graphics that would be the best or even imagine playing the ocarina through the kinect haha that would be funny

titletownrelo3909d ago

when they started caring more about pointless bragging rights, rather than having fun.

I've been coming to this site and others for months, and the people on here are really starting to disgust me.

Who gives a flying f*ck on what product some RANDOM person on the internet is getting!?

And then to try to make whatever console you're getting sound more superior than the other...to make yourself feel better is incredibly CHILDISH!

-Mine has more RAM!
-Well, mine has a better launch line-up!(even though I'll probably only buy one of the games)
-Oh yeah, well, the graphics of games on mine look better than yours!

This is all so...pointless

Show all comments (236)
250°

More Job Losses At Xbox, “There’s More To Come”: Paul Thurrott

Paul Thurrott in a recent episode commented on the on-going Microsoft fiasco hinting at more job losses and that "there's more to come".

Read Full Story >>
spieltimes.com
Sonic188113h ago(Edited 13h ago)

There won't be no more acquiring game publishers from Microsoft in the future . Xbox has to pay Microsoft back. It might take two decades to do that.

sagapo10h ago(Edited 10h ago)

I don’t understand what you’re saying. Xbox IS microsoft so there’s no “paying back “.
And MS gross profit in 2023 was over 140 billion dollars so forget your 2 decades.

Unless you mean the money MS invested in Xbox (acquisitions included) and the time it will take for xbox as a brand to gain that money back on it’s own, then yeah, that could take a while.

romulus234h ago

The better term to use might be return on investment, xbox is simply a division of Microsoft one that MS can easily do away with if profit margins are not met. So in that regard he's right, if xbox isn't showing the expected return on investment the higher ups are expecting than it's unlikely Microsoft will acquire any other studios any time soon, especially if they are spending billions buying developers just to shut them down in the end.

SonyStyled9h ago

“There won't be no more acquiring game publishers from Microsoft in the future”

No bro, there do be is for Microsoft not acquiring for what is now if not what it be is 😂

Ms3tjt7h ago

“ Xbox has to pay Microsoft back. ”

Aka

“I don’t know how business works”

Domkakop6h ago

You might need to take a good hard look in the mirror

Ms3tjt6h ago

Yeah I forgot Xbox is separate from Microsoft and Xbox borrowed the 69bn from Microsoft, and Microsoft didn’t get COD, Candy crush etc in return 😂😂👏

jwillj2k413h ago

There really needs to be a class action lawsuit here. You buy these companies just to put people out of jobs. And it’s not like something happened to derail their plans this WAS the plan. Microsoft has no business in this space at all.

franwex12h ago(Edited 12h ago)

Microsoft has been doing this for years. They simply want the IPs. Look at Nokia. Look at Skype. This time it simply expanded to games. Gaming is not as important to Microsoft’s executives as it was to the founders too. Bill Gates was willing to sell the og Xbox at a loss. Steve Balmer approved the red ring of death fiasco. This CEO isn’t really a gamer.

-Foxtrot12h ago

Maybe it's time though to put a stop to it and use a big giant like Microsoft as a huge example to the rest of these big companies.

There has to be a line drawn somewhere.

People like the FTC and the like went against Microsoft yet their Actvision deal was still allowed to go through yet look what's happened...it's not even Acitivisions studios aswell, it's Bethesdas.

RNTody12h ago

Ninja Theory, Perfect Dark, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Wolfenstein 3, Dishonored, Prey, Doom, Quake... something tells me that bad things are going to happen to these entities under Microsoft.

MrDead2h ago

ID software, the makers of Doom and Wolfenstein that have been with us since 1991 could be gone and MS will keep the IPs.

I hope some of these studios can buy their freedom from MS otherwise this is going to be even more devastating for the industry and gamers.

anast12h ago

Good thing the bosses of all those small studios made their money.

glenn197911h ago

they cant do it right now they will get burned

Show all comments (36)
90°

Microsoft Opening Xbox Mobile Game Store in July

The Xbox brand is expanding, as an Xbox mobile game store is opening this coming July where Microsoft will brings its "first-party portfolio."

Jin_Sakai2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

“Bond adds that they will start on the web”

This will go nowhere.

Nice knowing you Xbox. This is what happens when the house never gets cleaned.

MrDead2d ago

The only this MS is expanding is the amount of feculence it sprays on everyone who just want to enjoy gaming and make games.

The best thing MS can do for the gaming industry is leave and never return.

XiNatsuDragnel2d ago

Good luck with this even it might not succeed.

Show all comments (7)
210°

Microsoft once tried to nab LittleBigPlanet from Sony after a few drinks

It turns out that many moons ago, Microsoft once had its eye on the Sony published LittleBigPlanet series.

Read Full Story >>
eurogamer.net
XiNatsuDragnel2d ago

Microsoft had a good idea but fumbled it again.

Cacabunga1d 14h ago (Edited 1d 14h ago )

Project Spark idea was decent but they quickly gave up ..
LBP was wonderful

ApocalypseShadow2d ago

Microsoft in a nutshell. Always tried to poach Sony employees, games, 3rd party games and devices like the depth camera that was turned into Kinect but was running on PS2 before Xbox 360. Wouldn't be surprised they wanted LBP. Just like they worked behind the scenes pushing the MLB to bring Sony's baseball game to Xbox instead of making their own.
https://www.playstationlife...

They didn't spend years trying to develop their own baseball game. They wanted Sony's game.

They're scum.

Zachmo1821d 13h ago

Microsoft didn't force MLB on Xbox. MLB gave Sony 2 options either go multiplat or risk losing the license.

Rynxie1d 3h ago

And why do you think MLB said that? I believe Ms approached MLB.

ApocalypseShadow1d 2h ago (Edited 1d 2h ago )

Totally ridiculous comment.

The only exclusivity Sony had was to their own creation of The Show. Microsoft could have paid the MLB for the license just like Sony did and made their own baseball game.

Microsoft instead, groomed MLB for years in trying to poach Sony's game and bring it to Xbox. They're worth 3 TRILLION dollars. You think that's not enough money to make their own baseball game? Don't be delusional.

Microsoft spun it like they always do and told the media that they had to trust Sony with their hardware. After they put Sony in that position of not having a choice. Either go multiplatform or stop making one of their successful games. That's a no win scenario.

And what did Microsoft do? They didn't try to sell the game to the Xbox community. They put it on game pass to hurt Sony. Pushing the idea of why buy games that are $70 when you can play them in their cheap service for $10. It was a dirty tactic.

You fell for the Kool aid drink Microsoft served you instead of spitting it out. Hope it tasted good because you were fooled by Phil and the gang.

22h ago
Hereandthere18h ago

Xbox executive Sara Bond has told Axios that Microsoft spent a number of years trying to get MLB The Show onto Xbox consoles. And when it finally succeeded in breaking off PlayStation’s long-held exclusivity, the company had to “trust” Sony with pre-release Xbox Series X/S consoles.

Bond revealed that MLB The Show “always came up” in conversations between Microsoft and the Major League Baseball organization. “We always said, ‘We love this game. It would be a huge opportunity to bring it to Xbox.'” she recalled. However, when Microsoft’s efforts materialized, it put the company in an awkward situation where it had to send in pre-release consoles to a rival company.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 18h ago
Notellin1d ago

"Microsoft instead, groomed MLB for years in trying to poach Sony's game and bring it to Xbox."

Take a nap, conspiracies are rotting your brain.

22h ago
Hereandthere18h ago

Xbox executive Sara Bond has told Axios that Microsoft spent a number of years trying to get MLB The Show onto Xbox consoles. And when it finally succeeded in breaking off PlayStation’s long-held exclusivity, the company had to “trust” Sony with pre-release Xbox Series X/S consoles.

ApocalypseShadow4h ago

Lying to yourself is unbecoming.

Article link tells you all you need to know in Sarah Bond's own words.

Hereandthere18h ago

They were too cheap/inept/lazy to develop their own mlb game, so they port begged for years and bribed the mlb to make the show multiplatform. Like i said many times, xbox brought nothing to the table their 24 years, ZERO.

ApocalypseShadow4h ago

At least you and others get it. Note drank the Kool aid and asked for seconds thinking it was refreshing.

Most don't even know how it all played out but it's there in black and white for all to see. Microsoft brought it up for years until the MLB forced Sony's hand. It was a win win for Microsoft. Kill one reason to buy a PlayStation or kill the game by dropping it in a cheap service to kill Sony's sales numbers on PlayStation.

OtterX1d 16h ago

"However, Healey said Media Molecule wouldn't have felt right doing that, adding it would have been "morally corrupt"."

Major kudos to Media Molecule for being an upright studio with principles.

RNTody1d 16h ago (Edited 1d 16h ago )

Great, more stories like this please. Show the last of the zombies holding the line what we've been saying for years: Microsoft is anti competition, anti industry and has no interest in making games at all.

But hey, at least there's an Xbox Games Showcase to look forward to, right?

Inverno1d 15h ago

Well considering SONY just killed the series, LBP would've been dead by now either way. Though MM probably wouldn't exist by now either, so I'm glad they stayed with SONY, hopefully they don't get shut down any time soon or ever honestly.

Sheppard7t31d 13h ago

How did Sony kill the series?

Inverno1d 13h ago

They shut down the servers, that's millions of user created levels gone. That and dead are pretty much the same, it's also been years since 3 and they cancelled HUB soooo.

22h ago
fsfsxii23h ago

They shutdown the servers because no one was playing, no one in the community cared about the user created levels so why keep them up? Wtf you guys would never succeed in running a business.

Inverno22h ago

Yea dood no one was playing so they shut off the servers. Cause people with enough common sense can't just Google why they were actually shut of, right?

Show all comments (28)