Xbox 720 detailed: Blu-ray inside, always-on netcon required

Xbox 720 has been fully detailed to some third-parties, VG247 has learned, and has been slotted in for a Christmas 2013 released. And yes: of course it’ll have a Blu-ray drive.

[LX-General-Kaos]

If this is real.. Having to be connected to the internet at all times will make for some interesting conversation on this site. The rumored specs with the AMD 7000 series is amazing news as well if true. With specs like the ones mentioned, the XBOX 720 would surpass my 6850 sporting Cyberpower PC. Which can already max out most games, so this is great news for people planning on purchasing the XBOX 720.. If these rumors are true.

The inclusion of bluray is nice as well. Hopefully that will eliminate disc swapping for larger games.

I guess its safe to say that XBOX fans should start saving the loose change now. This has a fair chance at being an expensive machine.

Anyway I hope this system is made as strong and as complete as possible so I can prepare for the future of HALO. And for the love of god hopefully a Halowars 2. May we all bow our heads and pray for the return of these monsterous games. With specs like mentioned above, this machine will also do wonders for the #1 pro racing sim franchise in the world. The Forza franchise.

Rated E For Everyone

[Aggesan]

People need to chill a bit about the amd 7000. It might be in the low end part of the series just as well as the high end. Your 6850 is way more powerfull than a low end 7000 card.

[SleazyChimp]

Yeah but this is a dual gpu set up. Thats what is exciting. Dual 7000s optimized to the hilt is gonna be a beast. It'll be able to keep pace with pc for the next 5-6yrs just like the 360 did. I also would think this would have to make the new box more than 6x more powerful than the 360 as was reported earlier.

[JsonHenry]

Yeah, you get a lot of bang for your buck out a dual GPU set-up even at the lower end of the Tahiti line-up.

[MAJ0R]

Actually dual GPU's can have more disadvantages than advantages. For one, optimization could be a hard thing for 3rd party games. Even some PC games have a hard time being optimized for two GPU's. Remember, dual GPU's = more heat, more heat = slower clock speeds than a single GPU.

If that's the case and some games can't utilize both GPU's, a game could be running off of an under clocked GPU. It could end up being a similar situation for the next Xbox as the Cell architecture was for the PS3.

[Dante112]

Online all the time? MS think they're slick since you know they're gonna charge for Live again. And what if you have an outage with your internet, can't play single player games? Sucks, guess I won't be buying the next Microsoft console.

[dirthurts]

Dual video cards...eww.
I hope not. Too much heat, scaling issues, compatibility problems, why would MS go through that?
I'm calling BS.
Always on internet? That would be a very poor decision. I know a lot of gamers who don't have their xbox's online.

[Halochampian]

@Dante

Sony is rumored to be doing the same thing. I really don't like the idea.

Hopefully it's not true for either console

[cas85]

Perhaps it's gonna be a single high performance card for games and a single low performance chip for less demanding tasks such as video playback and applications. It would greatly reduce power consumption, heat, expand the lifespan of the console and reduce energy wastage if the high performance chip could be turned off when not needed. But who knows...

[snipes101]

The more I hear about the next generation of consoles (anti used games and now always online), rumor or not, the more I am beginning to think that console manufacturers are making a physical effort to make gaming suck. This is garbage and if it's true I might finally say screw it and go PC.

[ProjectVulcan]

I'll quote myself:

I said for a while Dual GPU would actually be possible, and actually fairly smart to start with and work well in consoles because the developers would be able to code for it.

Why? Well it is a well known fact that two midrange GPUs can edge out a high end, very expensive GPU, while not actually costing any more. One recent example being GTX560 SLI comfortably bests a single GTX580, but actually costs less! This has been going on for some time now and there are prior examples of most generations. 5750 crossfire usually beating or at least matching one GTX285 for considerably less cost.

How is this possible? Simple, midrange or lower mid parts are much much easier and most importantly cheaper to make. They will always have better yields, wider tolerances than big, hot, brand new cutting edge designs.

In short it is far more difficult and often more expensive and ultimately slower to build one big fast chip than it is to just design two smaller slower ones and run them together.

Besides the fact scaling on PC games heavily rely on driver level optimisations to work properly with dual GPUs, console games would have no such hurdles. A developer would design the game to specifically use both GPUs to maximum every time. This is why console hardware is more efficient with its assets anyway, PC does use brute force to beat it.

Designing a good midrange GPU, pairing them together on a hugely fast bandwidth bus and fitting them to a console does actually make more financial and developmental sense than you might imagine.

Saturn had Dual graphics, so it is not a new idea for consoles.

Also, the kind of access developers could have to a pair of GPUs could work very much like Lucid Hydra http://www.pcper.com/review... where you can split scene rendering between the GPUs to get superb scaling rather than brute force dumb alternate frame rendering.

[tokugawa]

how much ram?? has a figure been mentioned??

[iggsta3o5]

Sleazy Chimp graphics cards for computers release twice a year, and processors ounce a year. By the time this console hits the market it would only be 1-2 years before the console becomes obsolete. This timeline is being optimistic at best. The reason consoles will never compare to PC graphics and tech is because they would have to build new consoles every year. It would be to expensive and not in any way profitable.

[Information Minister]

@ vulcanproject:

True, but don't forget that we're talking about a console here, so you have to factor in power consumption, heat output, PCB complexity, form factor and weight. Having 2 GTX560 in SLI, each with their own individual board, heatsink and fan on a PC is completely different from applying that same combination of GPUs on a console with limited space. Even if the 2 chips themselves were cheaper than a more powerful single GPU, the cost of integrating them on the system would be higher. Failure rates would also be higher, as you would have more components that could malfunction.

Also, one of the main reasons why the Saturn was more expensive than the PS1 was because of how complex the thing was to assemble, with its higher number of individual chips, which in turn made it harder to program for.

Personally, I won't give this rumor much credit.

[Rumor]

I'm really excited for this next gen of consoles. It's my college years also so I'm a bit afraid for my future :-0

[ProjectVulcan]

@ Info minister.

I pre empted your thoughts, lower down in the discussion about power consumption, heat, layout etc outlining how it is indeed possible, economically viable in the current situation. Go have a read. They cover virtually everything you raised and explained them in detail. The cost along with power consumption itself is becoming more and more favourable for two smaller chips, as i explained. The fact a better cooling system would cost a few dollars more but a larger chip in the near future economics of the semiconductor industry could costs tens more, for each part.

PC multi GPU is a different proposition from a custom console, but nearly only in positive ways. The fact we have seen dual GPU before in a console was just an example of how this is easily more possible than you and others have made out.

Having seen the way the industry is going, I consider myself in a decent position to explain this to naysayers of such an idea.

Indeed it would be far easier to build a console chipset to accommodate 2 graphics chips and far more compact and controllable in a custom design than any PC. I pointed out about fail rates in the lower post too....

Saturn was a mess because it was not designed carefully enough and the concept was flawed. But then it WAS out long before modern dual GPU technology in PC systems became very commonplace. Since Saturn launched it is obvious that dual GPU technology has matured massively, over the past 8 years.

As i have said in my post right here and the one further below, it is entirely viable at this point in time and indeed if manufacturers have looked into the future as they should even more viable then!

[ChrisW]

I was hoping that MS wouldn't have to resort to Blu-Ray. But then again, if they don't do digital download, their choices are slim.

[Fishy Fingers]

Why? Its established, future proof for the life of the next gen. Cheap, flexible, read/write speeds are much improved.

Introducing a new format would be a pointless expense to the manufacturers, to the production companies (middle men) and most importantly, to us, the consumer.

[Tonester925]

yeah what happened to the "We don't need Blu-Ray"

[ziggurcat]

@ tonester925:

i think that went away as soon as X360 owners saw that they were getting stuck with games on 2 - 3 discs.

also, content on a few games (i believe lost planet 2, and FFXIII) had to get cut due to the lack of space.

[sak500]

@tonester925

You know what happened to "We don't need Blu-Ray", it lasted 7 years Dec 2005 ~ Dec 2013 (new xbox). Ordered in Dec 2k5 i got mine in Jan2k6. Glad I didn't have to pay premium for a trial underutilized storage device which was still not needed at the end of the current generation.

Dual / Triple discs don't matter to PC and 360 owners only handful of games even this late require 2 Discs at the most. I surely would be p#$##d also when the promised uber BD games still ended up being 5~6 hours and graphics at par with the DVD based console.

I never bought BD player as well I got all my HD watching on media tanks and xb360. But if the next gen xbox comes with BD it will be teh right time.

WHat i dont like about this rumored idea of always on net requirement. I doubt ms will go that path.

[_Aarix_]

Blu ray is just a higher storage disc. Nothing magical about it like you guys practically say it is. It doesnt sense that microsoft would deal with patents and crap whenever they easily have the resourses to make their own media format.

It wasnt needed as bad as you think anyway. I mean after seeing all the content gears of war and skyrim had and only used one disc. Though next gen dvd will be suicide.

[PimpDaddy]

What made sak500's comment a fanboy comment? He is correct. Blu-Ray wasn't needed this generation as far as for use in videogames.

95% of all Xbox 360 games run on one disc. The games that use multiple discs did not ruin the gameplay experience whatsoever.

I bought my PS3 to have a Blu-Ray player for movies and to also play a few PS3 exclusives. That's it. The value of Blu-Ray this generation was as an HD movie player. The short single player campaigns and mandatory installs for PS3 games just further proves this point.

[Christopher]

***Blu-Ray wasn't needed this generation as far as for use in videogames. ***

If you didn't have BD this generation, you wouldn't have had it going forward. The fact of the matter is that people grow to fully utilize new technology. If the technology is only put out absolutely when it is needed, you prevent rapid progress.

So, without BD last decade, this decade would be playing catch up.

[Christopher]

***Blu ray is just a higher storage disc. Nothing magical about it like you guys practically say it is.***

So is the DVD, but the DVD was an advancement on read rates and storage.

BD allows for a higher average/constant read/write speed (means you can stream data at higher rates at a constant rate rather than the variable rate of DVDs) and is also more durable.

If that's not enough and you downplay it? You're the same person who thinks that 8 cores is just 8x as many cores as we used to have, so that's not much.

[Hanif-876]

Please clap for the most retarded comment of the day!

[PimpDaddy]

My statement stands. The Xbox 360 and Wii got by this generation without Blu-Ray. So it wasn't needed. Sony could have used DVD this generation too and been just fine.

Edit: Pixelsword. How many games were "gimped"? If you saying that a few games out of hundreds of games required more than one DVD disc is proof of Blu-Ray being needed then I guess CD-ROM wasn't good enough for the PS1 either since I had games that used multiple CD's. Again my statement stands. Blu-Ray was not needed. It was a luxury and not a necessity.

[pixelsword]

@pimp;

If every game could fit on one DVD I'd agree with ya, but since not only were games intentionally gimped because of DVD, but there are a number of instances were two or more discs were needed; so no, although I won't press the disagree, I don't agree.

[sak500]

Well said pimpdaddy +bubbs.

One can see from agrees and disagrees here that Sony fanboys even hate it when people diss bluray as if its a violation against their beliefs.

[Christopher]

@PimpDaddy: Your choice to ignore the progression of technology is perfectly fine. You go right ahead. That doesn't mean that the technology doesn't grow to fit the medium.

What I'm saying that if we were still using DVD and there was no BD disc, what would we have right now? We would have the start of BD discs, which would be very costly, less likely to be supported globally, and would be in competition like it was last gen. By getting that all out of the way, we now have a format that can meet the demands of the next generation, isn't expensive, and has hardware advances that make it equal in cost to the old format. Transition to it will be pretty much seamless as opposed to if it was still new technology.

So, your definition of 'need' might be a bit myopic in the overall scheme of things.

I guess we also don't need alternative power sources until we're sure we've destroyed the planet by your logic.

[glennco]

i don't get the blu-ray comments. if they are going to stay with physical media why wouldn't they go blu-ray... or is this another fanboy BS war rehashing old battles thing. some sort of gloating or something juvenile like that. naturally next gen games will require a lot more storage than any other gen.

putting comments like "yeah what happened to the "We don't need Blu-Ray"" is so n4g. idiotic fanboy comments that offer absolutely zero to the conversation.

so far i have never once had to put in a second disc, never ever.

why am i even bothering debating with children

[sikbeta]

Blu-Ray is needed, XBX3 will benefit from it, everybody wins, why go against it?

[mcstorm]

I agree with you if this is true then the next xbox will be a monster console. I will be picking up the next xbox no matter what anyway just like I will the WiiU and PS4. Im looking forward to seeing what MS do with Kinect next gen too as it will have the device out of the box which means everything will be made around Kinect and xbox live which to me will show off the best of Kinect for core and none core gaems as well as media ect.

I also think 2013 will be a good year to bring out the next 360 as they would have Turn10 working on a Forza 5 as a release game and maybe even a Gears 4 as well as all the content the 360 has now plus more added to it put the next xbox in a good pension to keep the xbox brand as big as it is now.

I hope we get another 12 months out of the 360 and PS3 as they still have some amazing games to offer but 2013 will be the right year for MS to bring out the next xbox.

[asmith2306]

Kinect will never enchance 'core' games as long as it doesn't involve a controller; and then that defeats the purpose of it in the first place. How can you move around in a game world without a controller and remain feasible? When it comes to gaming, Kinect is limited to rails.

[LX-General-Kaos]

@ asmith2306

Have you heard of the phrase "Better with Kinect"

Believe it or not there are a few games out there that are enhanced by kinect. Even if the enhancements are small, they are still part of the experience.

Mass Effect 3, and Forza 4, and Ghost Recon Future are the examples I can remember as of now.

Examples..

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

@ asmith2306
I mentioned in this very same post that there are "a few games" that are enhanced. I never said anything about Kinect having this massive list of games. I already provided proof that there are enhanced games.

I never even said anything about the enhancements being big or even worth anyones time. Just the fact that they exist.

Rated E For Everyone

[asmith2306]

@Kaos
Give me stats on how many people really use these features. My guess is the number would not be high because most gamers who play these kinds of games couldn't care less about these features. Oh and by the way, I meant enhance core gaming as a genre, maybe I should have said advance. I have no problem with the features you put to me but they are nothing more than 'oh wow, look at that' and then forget ten mins later.

@kaos
so a few games are enhanced, big deal. My whole point was that if Kinect can't do anything to really push core games forward in any way bar a few little features then it is stuck in casual land. Thats cool if your a casual gamer and thats your thing; but for me (who had a 360 on day one and have had three since) the name Xbox was and should be synonymous with core gaming. Microsoft are taking it in the opposite direction. And no, they can't co exist in my opinion. If their direction is casual there will be very little room for innovation and risk when it comes to new core ips.

[LX-General-Kaos]

@ asmith2306

Agreed with your post above

I am not a Kinect owner, I am just stating what I have seen. At 1st you said there we no enhanced core games. Then when I showed you a couple it changed to there are not very many.

My gamer tag is provided in my profile. If you glance at my games played you can tell pretty quickly what type of gamer I am in regards of the xbox 360.

Like I said I never said the enhancements were worth anything. Just the simple fact that they exist. Nice debate though. You seem to know what you are talking about. Bubbles have been depleted.

Have a good day and happy gaming.

Rated E For Everyone

[Denethor_II]

"Kinect next gen too as it will have the device out of the box which means everything will be made around Kinect and xbox live"

Whoaaa, hold it there cheese tits. No, I disagree, everything will not be made around Kinect. Games made from the ground up would most likely have to be XBox exclusive, and as we all know these are few and far between.
I think the case will more likely be an all in one console experience for all gamers.

[mcstorm]

LOL loves the hate for Kinect on here. If you don't like it fine go and play on what ever you like to play on.

[asmith2306]

For me it doesn't matter how powerful the console is. If they continue down the casual road then whats the point? Im all about the content, not the specs. Im far more optimistic for Sony's next console given the first party studios they have. The WiiU looks decent as well but I want to see more. I lost faith in Microsoft around the time Gears 2 was released. Their 'vision' has been downhill since then.

[Imalwaysright]

Im in the same position. I dont care about kinect, i wont buy a console for multiplatforms and i will definitely not be shelling out € 400 to play 2 or 3 games with the only thing to look forward being the eventual sequels of those 3 games. MS really dropped the ball and unless they start acquiring 1st party developers that make what i consider proper games, not that kinect crappola, then they wont be seeing my money.

[dabri5]

It's funny to me how things change each generation. When the PS1 and PS2 were out, the system was known for the best 3rd party lineup. Now the people who praise the console want to ignore how important 3rd party games are to a console. Even the multiplatform ones are important.
I hope that Sony continues to have great 1st party games, but I hope they don't do anything that causes them to lose 3rd party support. An easier development platform would very much help that and that is what it sounds like they are opting for.

[mcstorm]

Catguykyou well said ive been saying this for a long time. Alot of people saw games like mgs final fantasy crash ect as a playstation exclusive and yes it kind of was because of the sales of the n64 gamecube dreamcast xbox ect but if people look back at games like tomb raider wipeout they were on the Saturn before the psx.

There are only a few exclusive games that are big and only a small number for sony and microsoft. Sony has gt and uc. Microsoft has halo and gears. Nintendo has the most but this is becasue when the n64 was out it was dropped by some big names and it was the same with the gamecube so nintendo got along with just its exclusives and look back through the n64 and gamecube history to see which games sold the most then look through sonys and you will see it was the 3rd party that drove sonys sales but people did not think of them as 3rd party as it was only on the playstation but microsoft changed this last gen and this gen.

[Rainstorm81]

N64? Nintendo have been doing Mario, Zelda, and Metroid since the NES days, they are staples of gaming and have proven that exclusives are key, many third party games were exclusive or at least timed on the ps1 & ps2. Exclusives matter just as much as a great lineup of multplats to define a platform

[DeadlyFire]

I am expecting 6770x2 GPU then. 1300 Gflopsx2 = 2.6 Tflops. Enough power to run that Samaritan demo at 1080p. I can't imagine the 6900 or 7900 series x2 in a console. As it would set it on fire, but I guess its possible.

I expect something in the range towards 2.5-3.0 Tflops. Maybe more if we are lucky. Would help future proof console to have more.

[B00M]

I doubt two 6770's would be able to run that samaritan demo let alone at 1080p. Originally it had to be run with THREE 580's! Now I've read they can run it with one 680. Two 6770's just wouldn't be powerful enough, no way near. The two GPU rumour is probably bs. Too much heat and too power hungry for a console. Would create more problems.

[SleazyChimp]

@BOOM Epic stated earlier that the Samaritan would be running on tablets and phones by 2014. Hell the Wii u will probably be able to run it by then! Also in that same article Epic stated that the real beast is Unreal 4 and that it would make the Samaritan look "Feeble".

[dabri5]

Unreal 4 engine really is leaps and bounds better looking than the Samaritan demo. When it is finally shown to the public, people will truly get an idea of what the next gen has in store.

[dabri5]

@BOOM Epic has done a lot to optimize the latest build of UE3 that was used to show off the Samaritan video. They plan to eventually have it running in flash.
The power you get out of the graphic cards on a computer is less optimized than what you get out of the same hardware on consoles because there a lot less overhead from the OS and generally more direct and often faster routes of transferring data between memory and cpu.
Anyways, you will get better performance out of 6770 on a console than you ever will out of a computer. I'm still hoping they settle on a more recent version of graphics card.

[DeadlyFire]

Originally it was completely unoptimized as well. They are streamlining their engines to run on everything including flash.

Even one 6770 would be able to run this demo by those standards.

Still I prefer higher power, but heat is an issue certainly. More than likely its possible they use part of the Power7 CPU in the next Xbox as a GPU. Kinda of like what was intended with the Cell and what AMD is doing with its APU line-up of chips.

Samaritan demo is most likely the tech demo of what WiiU will be able to do at say 720p.

As for PS4/XB3. I expect much more. In time with optimization possibly WiiU to run as well, but maybe not at first. I expect UE 4.0 and CryEngine 4.0 to make a big splash when they arrive. Epic made a point of saying years ago that UE4 would be built around next generation consoles. So its very likely built to be optimized on all three upcoming consoles.

Either way optimization is key to any game engine being licensed out to developers. Its why CryEngine 2 was revamped so quickly after its launch and rebranded as CryEngine 3. PS3/X360 couldn't handle it without that optimization.

Its all still a guessing game. E3 will make me happy. As its very likely at least two consoles will have all their details fleshed out to the public. If not all three.

[chriski333]

Sony to xbox your welcome

[Hanif-876]

Microsoft can keep their "always on" Xbox Next. I mean if i can't play if my internet goes down then that is reason enough for me not to ever purchase it. Also, if Sony comes up with some bullcrap like that also.. then its the same scenario.

[hotrider12]

Microsoft is not expected to announce anything pertaining to its next machine until next year 2013.

so, NINTENDO an SONY will reign this E3 then?? im sure we'll see some kind of footage of 720 and release date 2013...............
@TITANZ
"ALWAYS ON"
sound to me MICROSOFT will go Digital content only. i agree, i would'nt endorse that feature either.

[ProjectVulcan]

Not sure about the always on. Really wouldn't be pleased with that.

[gaffyh]

looks like its going to be $499.

But what i am worried about is how loud this things going to be to keep it cool, hopefully it isn't louder than the PS3 Slim or the Xbox 360 S

[Young_ART]

now were going to start hearing from critics and xbots about how amazing blu ray is.........smh.

[Gazondaily]

No. Now we're going to start hearing from Sony fanboys about how they assume we are going to hear from MS fanboys about how amazing Blu Ray is. Smh.

[fr0sty]

Dual GPUs isn't a very good idea in a console for many reasons. First of all, heat. They already had the RROD nightmare, and rumors are already coming out of heat issues with the current build of Durango.

Second, power consumption. Also, since performance doesn't scale perfectly when adding another GPU, they'd be better off just putting in a single GPU that was twice as powerful.

It's possible they could go for the GPGPU route and let the other GPU also help the CPU with things like physics or for rendering 3D without a performance hit, but none the less the idea with these consoles is to pack the most power into the fewest components so you can release a reasonably priced product that lasts a long time and isn't the size of a refrigerator. I just don't see putting 2 GPUs into a console as a good idea.

[ProjectVulcan]

I will address this now because i have noted others saying the same things.

Heat depends on the TDP of the chips in question. Potentially is is easier to cool two cooler chips, than a single large very hot one which may be prone to hot spot and failures. That is all about the design of the machine and its cooling system. Greater expense on the cooling solution is possible, but generally it would be cheaper to fit a better cooling system than build a very large chip with poor yields.

What is more, right up to date Nvidia and AMD have shown that the benefits of shrinking very large chips to get cost savings which is THE MAIN DRIVER of console cost reduction has nearly collapsed. Moving to a better process is closing in on being useless for saving money on making a big chip because the yields have been so poor and the wafers so expensive. http://www.extremetech.com/...

They believe as soon as 2015 it could be virtually pointless to shrink your massive chip unless something major changes.

Two smaller chips solve this very near future problem. Smaller chips would work because their yields would be vastly superior. They would be more viable for future cost savings from shrinks unlike a large chip.

Power consumption goes with the TDP. Most people don't seem to care about it a great deal. They didn't when they bought an original PS3 or 360. They don't when they buy 50 inch plasmas.

Also it is generally only high in the first model. After a die shrink power consumption reduces rapidly. With the aforementioned point that shrinking smaller chips is much more viable, they are more likely to get a shrink and save power sooner.

As for the claim that it wouldn't scale perfectly then that is incorrect. On PC then they typically can't because they rely on drivers and developers to actually bother creating their game or engine for dual GPUs and there are thousands of potential configurations of chipset and GPU and driver.

When you make a game for a set piece of hardware and use Lucid Hydra style techniques for splitting the render tasks then you can achieve near perfect scaling.

It is blatantly obvious consoles have had the attention from devs and pretty mad to think a dev would build a game for a dual GPU console and not code for both GPUs. Course they would.

Did they not transition to multicore CPUs this generation and not bother wringing out performance from every core? Whats the difference? Devs will use whatever is given them as best they can, especially on console.

[TheXgamerLive]

Both sonyand MX dont want you knowing whats coming until next year so they'll continue to throw some meaty rumors your way,
just dont drink it up liks it real.
Also, doesnt matter if BR is included next gen BR will be like this gen's DVD, bhind the times.
Games will be 10x larger just based on the engines and audio used so BR wont be able to support that.

If sony strictly went BR, then they'd be the ones behind the times, behind on the need required. 50 gigs wont be enough space after the first year of development, not even close, much less the standard 25gig.

Dual gpu's, no, however you will see dedicated cores for both built in kinect and the O.S. with additional floating cores that could be either kinect used for specific functions or games based.

The 4 to 6 cores is also "not" true. In 2010 MS was experimenting with variations based on the phenom w/12 to 16 cores. IBM as well has 2 propossed processors for the next X and I'm sure they werent 4 to 6 cores. haha.

It's great to guess and play with the possibilities but it will be later this fall even before Epic and others will know the exact specs on whats to come and that could even be tweaked last minute.

Games are being developed for both systems though and probably have been for a year but they've been on a highend pc with the knowledge that it will go to next gen. kits when they are available.

2013 christmas release? Yes, for both sony and MS. MS likes a fall september release.

[Malice-Flare]

heh, the anti-used game rumors seem to be consistent for both PS4 and nextBox that each has an implementation of not-ideal DRM. time to invest on the Wii-U and an upgraded PC...

[mugoldeneagle03]

Is this whole Kinect-built in thing. I mean, there's no way (I guess maybe there is ) they'll be able to fit a big enough camera into the system, capable of zooming in or capturing movements from a distance

And unless they go pretty different in terms of design of the 360, how else can you really have it built in?

I for one have all of my consoles sitting in an entertainment system next to my DVR, Blu Ray player etc...

Can someone explain how this might work?

[Angels3785]

I agreed with EVERY SINGLE SCENTENCE......until I read the end and realized you were a complete and total fanboy. FORZA??????? Number on franchise in pro racing Sims? Lolololololololol. That game is the farthest thing from real as they come, granted its fun and in my opinion more fun than gt5, but it sells like crap in comparison and in realism. In terms of the look and feel of the car its gt5 all the way. For example I drive a Mazda rx8, and I have personally taken it to its top speed of 155mph, in Forza apparently it can reach 185mph and still corner like pacman. And its not just this car, like the Nissan gtr has a top speed of 195 and in forza it reaches nearly 230.....that's obsurd. Plus forzas tracks are wider than the real ones and the cars handle like they are remote controlled. Its quite good fun, but not in any way realistic. Forza also hails in comparison to how well the gt series displays cars, forza does it magically, but gt.....its almost poetic. Plus gt has assosiations with REAL Car companies and the Dev team even helped design REAL cars that made it to production, like the citrogen gt, and even the Nissan GTR speed interface was made by the gt Dev team......plus the x1 concept car which has real world physics applied with real race drivers at red bull technologies putting input and pushing its production. Forza has nothing to show for any of this, its just a super fun addicting racer, but not a better simulator. Unfortunately thats why forza is better as a GAMING racer....its fun. GT is not for every one if you aren't willing to invest a good two hours on a single race that you probably wont win, its not the game for you. Thats one of the reasons it got marked down (aside from no real damage until you completely max out the games leveling system) its too hard and not as fun as a game should be. Sure damage may not make it a realistic, but I'm pretty sure most drivers dont get into accidents every five seconds in real life and drift at the turn of a joystick like in forza. Driving is all about the looks and feel of the Car and That is something that Forza hasn't been able to touch in GT (aside from the standard cars)......here are some links for proof......
http://www.youtube.com/watc... go to 5:29 to hear about how the gt dev helped on this amazing nissan GTR
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... Here is the Citrogen GT made exclusively for GT5 and now a real production car
http://www.youtube.com/watc... here is Sebastion Vettel playing the game and explaining that it is the most realistic thing he's played. Many drivers use GT as a test simulator.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

.

I felt the same way. I agreed with everything LX said until the last two sentences...

GT hands down is the #1 and best racing sim franchise period.

[Angels3785]

LOL thats what Im trying to prove and identify; the difference of a SIMULATOR and a Racing game. That is probably the sole reason he has so many disagrees, it was a stupid ignorant statement. Plus just the way GT portrays itself is a borderline religious effort I mean look at this http://www.youtube.com/watc...
The way they do this is astounding and poetic. I never though I could be in more love with cars after that. Hell GT even made me change my major from computer engineering to automotive engineering! The sound track is also very catchy:)
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[Gazondaily]

Paragraphs. Where art thou??!!!

[Legion]

"Xbox 720 will require an always-on internet connection as an anti-piracy measure." I call bull on this statement. This immediately alienates those that players that don't play online and thus greatly reduces their sales possibilities. This change alone would ensure that if PS3 allows games to be played without internet connection it will own MS on consoles sold from day one almost. Way too many gamers that don't connect to the internet for this to be viable.

[Titanz]

"Always on" is a feature I wouldn't endorse.

@Perjoss

Nintendo has an, "always on" feature for the Wii, though it isn't "mandatory" (Its called "Wiiconnect 24" - which allows the player to receive updates, friends message, etc. <just as long as the yellow light in on>).

Maybe it'll workout for Microsoft, so here's hoping for the best.

[Perjoss]

its 2012, people have internet now.

[thereapersson]

Maybe some people like to play their consoles, even if they don't have internet? I know a few people who would still keep their consoles, even if they couldn't get internet at their residence (for whatever reason).

[Hayabusa 117]

It's 2012, not everyone has the internet.

[ironwolf]

"It's 2012, not everyone has the internet."

Tough. Can't let life's losers hold back progress.

[torchic]

I'm sorry but that is a very horrible perception.

maybe in America, yes everybody has internet (which I'm not even sure is the case).

believe it or not Microsoft sell a crap load of consoles in developing countries, and in developing countries high-speed home internet (ADSL) is not as highly adopted as it is in America. rather, people in these countries use their mobile phones to connect to their favourite sites. so for a console that requires to be always connected to the internet is a good idea, if your goal is not to sell consoles.

but then again America is Microsoft's biggest consumer base. so go ahead Microsoft.

[neoandrew]

OK, but what if my isp has some problems and i don't have connection now?

What if i have only mobile internet and i don't want to use it for console?

What if i need to resign from my isp?

What if i would like to play with friends on vacation when there are no internet?

What is the answer to all those "what if", is the answer any good for customers, for me, i don't think so...

[SilentNegotiator]

They would be complete morons to do a required connection system.

Not everyone PLAYS online, not everyone HAS internet, and not everyone wants to be TIED to the internet.

Lowest common denominator is important to achieve if you want the maximum amount of people to buy. Forced internet connection....that's setting the bar of entry several steps higher.

Hey, publishers! Who would you blame when sales are lower next gen with internet required consoles that you pressured into existence?

[arnyftw]

I have problems all the time with my connection, does that mean I shouldnt be able to game?

[iamgoatman]

I'm in the UK and still can't get broadband, so it's not just lesser developed countries either. There are still a lot of "not spots" in the UK, live in any rural area and your speeds quickly plummet or ADSL isn't available at all. A lot of people also have to rely on mobile internet, and the reliability can be really shoddy.

But I guess we should just up sticks and move somewhere else just to use a games console? I think not. If the next Xbox does require a constant connection, I won't be getting one.

[kza]

IDIOT!!!

[Hayabusa 117]

"It's 2012, not everyone has the internet."

"Tough. Can't let life's losers hold back progress."

Erm, you do realise that over 50% of console owners do not have the internet? That might mean nothing to you, but means a hell of a lot to companies like Microsoft and Sony, because they're going to make more money from casual, non-internet customers. You're greatly out numbered by life's loosers you see, and the only thing a mega corporation bows to is numbers.

It's also NOT progress if you can't play a game because your internet provider has a fault :/

[AzaziL]

For all you supporters, just wait till your internet goes out during a storm and your waiting the whole day for it to come back, have fun with your brick.

[Veneno]

"Always On" would kill the competitive gaming scene as they use thousands of consoles that don't connect online. I'm scared of this. Everything next gen will be waaaay more expensive and we're getting even less than ever before.

[baodeus]

@neoandrew

"What if i would like to play with friends on vacation when there are no internet?"

so if you don't have internet now on x360 or ps3, how can you play with friend anyways?

You mean you always bring friend along on vacation?

[Droid Control]

Hope this is true.

[tigertron]

Sounds accurate. I hope Microsoft adopts Blu-ray because it will be needed for next-gen systems. The PS3 has already benefited from it, as have the customers.

Who'd have thought we had a 3D Blu-ray player back in 2006?

Anyway, both system specs sound very promising and I hope to god they'll unveil them at this year's E3 for a 2013 launch.

[Mikhail]

They will probably show some teaser video. I think MS has a higher probability to show something in E3. Sony has TGS as an another option.

[DiRtY]

It will have a 6 core CPU and dual GPU?!
Sounds too powerful for a mass market product. We would face a $600 pricetag yet again.

[1nsomniac]

The 'always online' statement is all you need to read to know that this is fake!

How can you possibly believe that Microsoft would be willing to instantly cut off a HUGE majority portion of there market!?

** lol at the disagrees how stupid can you be. Do you really believe an always on policy is viable? lol

[Fishy Fingers]

Its unlikely yes, but when companies like Ubisoft are using these exact DRM solutions on PC it's a possibility none the less.

[Fez]

That's probably why tonnes of folk pirate ubisoft games on pc.

It's not too bad for consoles and desktops since they are stationary and most people have internet connections but for laptop gaming, always-on is an awful solution to piracy.

[thesummerofgeorge]

I agree 1nsomniac; while anything's possible, I can't imagine MS so severely limiting their market.

[Veneno]

It's true. Imagine if the Wii had this put in. It would not be nearly as successful because I could almost garauntee that 85% of Wii's are not online.

[aquamala]

Is there really a huge market? You thInk a lot of console gamers never play online, get dlc's or patches?

[Persistantthug]

You've got to remember....
Microsoft doesn't sell regionally.....they sell WORLDWIDE.

Same with Sony.

[Jazz4108]

I imagine the always online thing will be a option just like on wiu for people who have internet and would like to have their updates done and over with when they game.

[Philoctetes]

Agree. There is no way the next generation requires an internet connection to function. Way too many people either don't have high speed internet or have a poor connection.

[TENTONGUN]

its all rumours, but i kinda believe the one about no preowned game sales so this has me wondering. how would that work? would you need a internet connection to register the software to only your console? no preowned games would ruin lets say gamestop. maybe force them to finally give money to the developers and ms(like theyve been begging for years) for preowned sales. that is if they want to keep their gamestops and shit goin. always online is bad news for gamers though

[KeiserSosay4788]

I hope Microsoft has an option to install discs to the hdd. I mean what's wrong with keeping DVDs, forcing an install, and having a 1 tb HDD to avoid paying their competition for blu-ray. I dont see the point except for blu ray movies. Never had an issue with my PC not having a blu ray drive.

[Fishy Fingers]

How much does MS have to pay to support BD exactly? I assume you have an idea right, and why would that be any different to using one of the other established formats they didnt invent, CD, DVD, Flash etc?

Do you really think MS still hold a grudge over or care about BD becoming the standard?

[WitWolfy]

No doubt, like we ALL know MS they'll act like they discovered the format next gen.

They always do!

[AP]

They've had the install option on 360, so I'm sure DVD or BR they will keep it. Why remove features? Plus, BR has a slower read rate.

[Eu]

When the PS3 was launched, with 2x drives, yes, BR had low speed rates in comparison with DVDs WHEN the DVD drive was at full 12x. But since that doesnt happens ALL the times, it was a fair trade, for BD drives read ALWAYS at the same, CONSTANT, speed.

Nowadays there are up to 12x BD drives....thats so much more read info speed than DVDs it hurts....

[arnyftw]

Even if the speeds are high, the disc drive produces heat and noise (on xbox), and installing takes all this away. Thats why we need it for next gen, I hope they keep the install option.

[PimpDaddy]

Sony is only "one" of several companies that would benefit from the Blu-Ray royalties. Even as much as I prefer my 360 to my PS3 and don't think that Blu-Ray was needed this generation. I can still see the logic in using Blu-Ray next generation for the increased capacity and for the physical media for games.

Please don't make 360 owners look bad ever again...

[KeiserSosay4788]

How did I make 360 owners look bad? I don't even own a 360. I'm just saying that the PC platform hasn't even found a justification for blu-ray games, so how have consoles (other than blu-ray movies?)

[jukins]

you do realize that the bluray license holders arent sony alone right? Everyone company thats part of that group has no problem paying license fees for windows and i doubt microsoft doesnt have a problem paying the, relatively, small fees to have bluray.

[Mikhail]

Hmm, two gpu's? I wonder what kind of design it is if this rumor is true. The heat it will generate would be @@. Let us say I don't want a RROD fiasco again.

Edit: The rumors about this and the Orbis are coming from devkits (assuming they are true). Dev kits have different specs and may have restrictions put into place so the final product would be vastly different in terms of what kind of cpu, gpu and amount of ram. The basic functions such as the blu ray and the kinect built-in may be final.

[Captain Tuttle]

I thought the same thing about dev kits. I think the eraly 360 dev kits had tow gpu's as well as placeholders until the final gpu design was decided upon.

[SephirothX21]

My i7, GTX 580 and 8 gigs of ram still rape this console but if this rumour is true, it is better than I expected. Though let's remember that this is probably releasing in over a year and half which means hardware costs will have been reduced. Though also think about how powerful new Nvidia and AMD graphics cards will be then.

[TheGrimReaper]

Yes, you are sooo right!
And you will be playing all the console exclusive games with higher resolution, additional effects and higher fps. IF these games would ever appear on PC!
I think some PC enthusiasts just don't get it:
We like playing these games! Yes we love it if these games look pretty! But do we care how they would look on a PC? No because they are not released on a PC!
(Written on a gaming rig by a console owner)

[andibandit]

@Sephiroth

dosnt matter, cause what the consoles lack in power, they receive in graphicEngine optimization.

So in a little less than 2 years, you'll be scratching your head over why games on your GAZILLION GHz, CrossFire,SLI, GPU accompanied by your 8 HypnoHertz 1000 core CPU, only looks "A little better".

[FrigidDARKNESS]

I'm glad they will be using dual AMD 7000 series gfx chip instead of the 6600 series and hope all games will be running in dx11/12. the Blu ray drive will be a lot faster than the first generation drive and won't require installs.
@sephirothx21 the gfx chips in the new consoles will be highly optimized to get the best performance to compete with next gen PC gfx cards.

[supremacy]

Umm I dont mean to start a war here, but based on these http://www.vg247.com/2012/0... vs http://www.vg247.com/2012/0... rumors which platform will you guys say is turning out to be more powerful?

Just asking.

[Mikhail]

Its inconclusive. The two gpus are not in a crossfire setup. (i.e. Two Gpu's work in the same application such as video games) From what I can deduce from the rumors, the two GPU's powers different functions of the console.

The Orbis rumor does not specify which Southern Island GPU they are going with. It could be the 7970(high end), 7870 or the 7770 (low end). The same goes for Durango.

In the end there two scenarios MS console would cost more because of the Kinect 2.0. Sony can counter this by either having a higher GPU at the same price point or the same GPU at a lower price point. Logically speaking of course.

However, they are basing rumors mostly out of dev kits which only emulates the final product. MS and Sony might add same RAM or Vram or upgrade the CPU/GPU during manufacturing process. Proof of this is how games such as Gears and Uncharted look better as time goes by.

Also, don't believe in rumors, we can speculate but don't believe entirely on it.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

It's really hard to say at this point especially given its all rumor and speculation. Plus once we do get the final hardware a big peice is the support tools for the devs. You can easily say the PS3 is the more powerful machine over the 360 but the excellent & easy to use tool sets for the 360 have helped keep the 360 on a level playing field with the PS3 for most of this generation. We really will need the full picture before anyone can definitively say one is better than the other...and even then..you may not be able to get a clear answer.

[Tai_Kaliso]

Well again this is all just rumor, Microsoft knows that not everyone has their current Xbox 360's hooked up to the internet and a lot of the casual crowd that they've captured with Kinect don't go online as all either, so I am calling that part of this bogus.

The Blu Ray I expected, I mean Microsoft put the DVD drive in the Xbox and the Xbox 360 and Sony owns patents on those. Blu Ray is cheap enough now to not drive up the cost. I just hope they go with a faster drive so we don't get mandatory installs or anything like that. Honestly, this generation I've hated the mandatory installs more than swapping disks.

You can usually weed out some of the truth from the non truth, maybe the mandatory online thing is with the Xbox Lite, which is rumored to be a disk drive-less Xbox 360 that plays arcade and digital games? That would make sense to have to be online all the time.

Rumors can be fun, but I think some of us overreact a bit.

[PimpDaddy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Sony does not own a patent on Blu-Ray. They are one of several companies that get royalties but they do not won Blu-Ray outright.

If Sony did own Blu-Ray outright then Blu-Ray would have failed. No way all the other Blu-Ray manufacturers would let one company control it.

[ipe]

2x gpus, 6 core cpu, 4GB ram, blu ray, kinect out of box??

600$ without doubt+ live.
Maybe 500 depending how big loses ll ey take.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

One thing we do know...MS likes the $399 price point so you need to factor that into this. Maybe they do two skus one at $499 and one at $399 but I am 99% sure we will see a launch day sku priced at $399.

[dcbronco]

The AMD APUs for this will be less than $200 for two by the time the next Xbox releases. RAM is cheap and there will be no Blu-ray player. Kinect was $60 at launch and the cost to MS has dropped since then. Kinect 2.0 will still be less than $100 to produce.

There is no reason for the new machine to cost more than the last one. Instead of two GPUs and two CPUs making four chips at 90nm, it's two GPUs and two CPU on two dies at 28nm. So it's really the same number of parts as the 360 at launch, but made much cheaper because you get a lot more chips per wafer at 28nm.

[Clarence]

Hilarious. Sony leads the way. M$ still playing catch up. No more switching disc, or scratches.

[MoFo1111]

Sony leading the way from last place
World domination

[OMEGAZONE]

April Fools is over. Enough with this shit.

[MoFo1111]

Its not an April fools
Just a rumour

[arnyftw]

If this was a April Fools joke it would be like this.
"Next gen xbox to have 2-Gtx 590's, 8 core gpu, 32 Gb RAM, and 2 TB HDD at $399"

[BattleTorn]

I don't care about next-gen pricing. Let it be $700+ for all I care.

I just spent $1200 on a new PC and I don't even use it!

mainly due to lack of friends (I've got a nice community of friends on XBL)

So I'll even be willing to pay PC-hardware prices.

[enfestid]

This article is full of crap.

An always-on Internet connection? Sorry, but even today (or when it's released) that would eliminate a massive amount of potential customers, and it would also make it difficult to sell in foreign markets like India, for instance.

Having the GPUs separately draw graphics would also be a disadvantage, as it would make games more difficult to port (in either direction). That would remove one of the advantages Microsoft has actually had since the original Xbox -- being easy to program for.

Basically, this is all FUD.

[Rageanitus]

all of a sudden were gonna see the xbox fanboys praising blu-ray

[honkyjesus]

I don't praise Bluray, I praise Bluray rips.

[ziggurcat]

funny how the anti-used game "feature" has been omitted this time around...

[MrBeatdown]

Well, there's the always-on connection for "piracy". If this was true, there's nothing really stopping them from blocking used game sales too.

But at least things are getting better. The last rumor said the next Xbox was digital download only. Now we got discs. Progress!

[cheetorb]

Kinect built in? I don't like the idea of paying for something I'm not going to use. Hopefully they will offer a "stripped down" model that is Kinect free with the option to buy separately.

The more choices I have, the more inclined I am to purchase. Doesn't matter what console it is.

[giovonni]

How do you know you aren't going to use it? Kinect makes certain features better. for example, I was playing mass effect 3 and in the heat of the battle I didn't have to press the left bumper to switch weapons cast spells or to get my crew to cover me in a fire fight. It is a wonderful addition because it puts you in the heart of battle, and I can't wait to see how they use it in sports with hand gestures to indicate a play or use it in mini games with in a game like defusing a bomb.

To say you aren't going to use it is a little premature because you may find yourself enjoying certain small features in games you love. and besides Kinect has sold so well, you may find other companies jumping on the band wagon. What happens if this becomes the indie standard ?

[PopRocks359]

I'm a big time gamer, and when I got my third 360, I was given a Kinect for free. I haven't touched it since I first synced the thing. The only use it's seen since was when a couple friends asked if they could play Dance Central. That was a year ago.

Kinect has some small features yes. But for any gamer with even a little concern for what they spend their money on, $100 for a Kinect just isn't worth it.

[giovonni]

I understand where you are coming from. and Respect what you are saying because it is true. I've gone a few months not playing the kinect because there was nothing that appealed to me but once I saw features that were added more hands free options to navigate mini options in mass effect and the addition of sports like PGA13 it has been a blast.
Kinect is good for what it is. it's not the be all, but great for parties, netflicks and squad play.

[honkyjesus]

At this point you are seeing different directions you are pointed in every week. Last week it was all about an Xbox light in 2013 and next Xbox in two or three years. This week it is all about a 2013 release?

I expect something at E3 this year, MS is having some pretty shit E3's recently... and consumers have overridden fanboys as far as Halo and Gears, as these games aren't the huge franchises MS likes you to think they are. If you look at this E3 the big thing is Halo 4. And more Kinect bullshit. This is more or less what they have done the past few years, insert whatever underwhelming IP they line up.

I imagine it gets a bit embarrassing. You can tell things are off when they start amping up Steel Battalion recently. Along with a Star Wars/Kinect console and game.

[gypsygib]

I don' like the requirement of being online constantly at all.

[Mister_G]

Yeah, big brother is watching ;)

[Mister_G]

LoL @ all these rumors for the next gen...... it's gonna be like this for months.

X720 will have this, PS4 will have that, X720 will release first, PS4 will release first, etc. etc.

Lol! :D

[urwifeminder]

All rumor on a lighter note it was great to see the CSIRO in australia finally get paid for inventing wifi so many people use it in the world big cash, they also invented plastic money and flu vaccine they are currently using old tv transmitters to send and recieve the internet aussies invent lots of things.

[TABSF]

I can believe the CPU part but the GPU nah

HD 7770 is 80Watt if two chips 160Watt TDP
AMD Bulldozer 6 Core is 95Watt TDP
You telling me that the Next Xbox will be using over 250Watt

BTW HD 7870/ GTX 570 is quicker than HD 7770 in CFX never mind 7950 or 7970 GTX 580 or GTX 680

Also
HD 7850 is 130Watt if two chips 260Watt TDP
AMD Bulldozer 6 Core is 95Watt TDP
Its just crazy to think its a high end HD 7000

Also you got to look at a late 2013 or early 2014 before Next Xbox is released, the GPUs will have be out for almost 2 years with newer parts already out.

[Kidmyst]

Like 2 PC's taped together? Man the 360 can give off heat, what's this heat on the 720 gonna be like? A bit concerned on the always on part. I have that but not everyone does and that will be interesting if all this is true how it'll play out to the vast consumer base.

[ZeroWil]

I can see it utilizing blu-rays, though I hope the constant Internet connection stays as a rumor. Though I don't necessarily have a problem with that, it's gonna suck when your Internet connection is down because your ISP is always doing maintenance or something.

[gypsygib]

Next MS will make you need a Kinect that is always on

[THC CELL]

All that power and still will it offer exclusive games no oh yea halo six pff

[BitbyDeath]

A lot can change by then

[Bob570]

Always online? Yeah ok. You keep telling yourself that.

[Relientk77]

I am so excitied about the next gen consoles, I cant wait to hear and see wat the Xbox 720 and PS4 can do; I am intrigued.

[Kos-Mos]

I like gameplay and games before graphics. Punhout!!! for NES is still great fun.

[Krakn3Dfx]

If new consoles eliminate the ability to buy used games, this 360/PS3 consoles will be the last consoles I buy. I'm already moving more towards less gaming as I get older, and I have a huge backlog of 360/PS3 titles to play. There is nothing wrong with having a used game market, if anything used game trade-ins drive new game sales in a lot of cases.

Console makers need to stop kowtowing to publishers and consider what makes good business sense long term.

[PopRocks359]

As far as we know, Wii U won't do anything like that. Go figure.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

From a hardware only point of view... I would certainly welcome something along these lines but I am inclined to think this rumor is probably just that. I love the dual GPU concept but that coupled with the CPU would have that machine running way hot. I say this rumor probably has some element of truth to it but how much of it and what exactly is true is too hard to tell. Heck...the only truthful part may be that AMD is making the GPU.

[GraveLord]

Blu-Ray!? OMFG! Microsoft is SO innovative. Future-proof confirmed!

[busytoad]

lol they gotta pay sony for the blu-ray tech hahahaha. Go sony!!

[Neko_Mega]

I like how people say Bluray isn't needed in the new Xbox, Epic has even said Microsoft needs to update their disc format badly and Gears 3 wasn't that great as it could have been if they had more room to work with.

Skyrim was needed to be install to the 360 for the high grax, PS3 didn't even need it to be install. Plus the lazy developers of Skyrim finally fix the lagging problem.

In the end, Bluray or digital is the only things they could do and at least with Bluray they can keep support bc of their old Xbox games without rebuying games.

[dcbronco]

I wouldn't be surprised about the dual GPUs. It's something I believed would happen for sometime. Using APUs, it would still be cheap to build and the heat shouldn't be an issue. At 28nm they should be cooler than the 90nm CPU and GPU machines of the past even with two APUs. The idea of two basically separate machines kinda makes sense too. It wouldn't surprise me if the APUs are HSA chips. One chip could pump AI and physics while the other handled graphics, OS, sound and Kinect. It would make for a pretty picture and unbelievable destruction.

And Blu-ray still makes no sense. There is no reason MS couldn't use something different and more cheaply than the high royalties of Blu-ray. And the high drive cost. They could even stick with DVD, drop the additional disc fees and have a big enough HD to load the games and have them run off of the main disc without the need to change disc.

[Unexpecta]

"Xbox 720 will require an always-on internet connection as an anti-piracy measure."

The PS4 and Wii U have already won.

[Nodoze]

April fools!! There is no way MS will put in a Bluray drive. That alone negates this whole article and the timing makes this a prime April Fools candidate.

[BitbyDeath]

Why would they not?
If they want the next Xbox to be a true entertainment hub they will need to include it.

[cyclindk]

Whatever the specs... they shouldn't even be considered using current, or soon-to-be current gen PC equivalents. I mean, at best, that'l put next gen CONSOLES even with the best single card PC. Which would mean, in terms of shear visuals, consoles are gonna be left in the dust VERY quickly as opposed to the last round.

But, though I'm not gonna go into it to much, this might not be a problem AT ALL. I have a theory that there is a threshold were people become, 'happy,' with the graphical detail and willing to accept fewer improvements in that regard in as short a time as in previous generations. I think we will be reaching that point soon. Once Crysis-like visuals (modded awesome version) becomes standard, I think I'd be satisfied for decades...

[dcbronco]

I think a machine with dual GPUs will be better than the tech in the average gaming PC. Consoles are closed systems so the software is optimized for the machine. PC games have to work on a bunch of different configurations.

I do agree that we are quickly approaching the point where the graphics will become a non-factor. There is only so far they can go with the hardcore games before the censors start to push back. The next move for gaming will be physics, AI and VR. Even graphics whores have to come in off the corner eventually.

[cyclindk]

I did mention the "best" of current gen PC setups, not the average. Nobody goes to buy the latest console and says to themselves, "god I hope the graphics are average, not amazing, but just plain, good ol' average suits me fine."

And even taking into account that Sony and Micro are considering the longevity of any future console they make, screen resolution, frame rate bump (to 60 as standard hopefully) and 3D and/or other unforeseeable "power" gobblers are going to really push the capabilities of anything they choose to cram into the next round of consoles short of some crazy quad card, eight gigs of ram behemoth, which will never happen. Personally, I want, no, DEMAND better AI in games. The current state of computer controlled opponents is atrocious.

[TheLastGuardian]

Green-ray

[Dorwrath]

Always on, I doubt it. Built in Kinect would be more trouble than its worth. The console would have to be at a certain height, maybe even central to the TV, I just see too many issues arising from a built in unit. Makes sense to have it in the bundle when you buy the console, but as a separate unit.

Blu-ray a maybe, but whats the odds MS resurrects the defunct HD DVD for the consoles games.

[dcbronco]

I believe HD DVD will be an option before Blu-ray. Contrary to what most believe, HD DVD didn't die completely. It became CBHD and is outselling Blu-ray in China. It would be much cheaper for MS to bring it back than to use Blu-ray. It was always a much cheaper format since it was just a DVD with smaller information pits. There are tons of replication companies that still have the equipment to produce the disc or it would be cheap to get them back online. Plus I'm sure Toshiba would love to get it going again worldwide.

[Squadron40Dive]

fuck these assholes, these guys know what their talking about.

http://theparanoidgamer.com...

[MultiConsoleGamer]

False.

The line that says "it's two PC's taped together" is a joke on the old "it's two GameCube's taped together" line that was a popular troll line concerning the power of the Wii. (You heard people say this a lot on NeoGAF.)

Next Box uses high capacity DVDs just like Nintendo Wii-U. Or are some of you dumb enough to believe that MS wants to pay Sony a royalty every time they sell a game?

Why is everyone so averse to common sense?

[Fat Onion]

The Royalty Fee Per Disc is less than 8 cents

http://www.one-blue.com/roy...

[MultiConsoleGamer]

There're still not going to do it. That money will add up to a lot of cash on a million selling title.

And it's a principle thing...

They're not going to help a company they are trying to destroy. Not even a little.

[BitbyDeath]

Good specs, i don't think they'd do the lock down to online only thing but the rest sounds pretty awesome.

Can't wait for E3.

[Omega Zues]

uuug, more rumors...

[Kahvipannu]

Hmmm, rumors.. Actually I'm believing the online thing totally, or atleast something similar.. Sony, MS, etc have been looking a way to deflect piracy, and publishers retail sales, a system that has for example online keys to activate the games, and you would have to activate the game via your account when you start playing it sounds something they would add...

Or something similar, some games even now need you to be online to launch the game, even if it is sp.

I'm not saying I'm liking it, I don't, but I'm pretty sure something like this will be in both MS and Sony consoles next gen. Who can blame them tought? Piracy is a real thing, but it's us rest of the gamers that take the hit..

[dcbronco]

I don't believe the online thing. I can believe a registration verification. But I would not buy any games in the store if that was a feature. I bought Ultimate Team for FIFA the first time. After it wouldn't work whenever the EA network was down(and that seems to happen often when a game is new), I never bought it again. Live is more reliable than EA, but Comcast has issues of their own and there are too many potential problems with that.

[Kahvipannu]

Yeah, it would work like modern day registration key, and you would add it to your account. Each time you start the game you would have to be logged in. You wouldn't have to buy games online, just launch them. I really don't see this impossible, or some other similar feature..

Similar system's are in use elsewhere already, problems or not, they will try to deal with piracy better this time, I do agree, it sounds bad, but what you can do? And it's still couple years since new consoles come out, tehy can well pull it out. Hopefully I'm wrong tought.

I propably will skip next gen, I have been latelly been playing 90% with PC, I really can't see anything consoles would do that PC doesn't. Specially if the next systems will be using something similar that I just explained. Plus console gaming is freaking expensive, I'm tired of reselling old games back to you, overpriced content, and no free content...

[opinska]

comon people, this is bs... NOT TRUE (April's fool article actually fooling people!)

[kevnb]

Ill definately wait on that. Its not worth getting a console until its out about 3 years, thats when they finally optimize games half way decently and the things dont cost an arm and a leg. By then I imagine pc will be attractive, so unless there is some game I have to have forget about it.

[3GenGames]

Sony going to give Microsoft blu-ray to use? Lolno. Microsoft going to use a sony product, pay royalties, then produce more expensive disks over using their servers users already pay for with xbox live for FREE? Don't be retarded, the nextbox won't have blueray. You're stupid to believe it.

[BitbyDeath]

Sony gets a share in royalties from DVD as well so changing it to blu-ray is not such a big deal.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/W...

[portugamer]

There are a few things people don't understand.
Have you ever connected a laptop to a domain, [email protected], for example?

When you are offline, you can still logon and have your desktop and profile. The domain gives you a token, and x grace logins. You can go abroad, and still logon locally. The x720 would still work, without an internet connection.once your isp works again, your x720 will talk to ms servers, and will say''this user played x,y,z games, 5 times, connected a usb pen 2 times, watched 3 movies and the console freezer 5 times.(ok, I'm trolling here, it only freezes 3 times).
So, even without an internet connection, it will work, for, like, a few days, 1-2 weeks,etc. I guess ms will want to prevent a console from being disconnected too long, which would maybe mean 'firmware changed'. Sure, even if the guy changes the firmware, next game will update it...

Now, about bluray.
Ms can put a bluray drive on the x720, but it doesn't mean 100% that games will come on that format. Maybe the console will have a 1tb hd, and all the games will have to be installed. Locally. The bluray player would only read bluray movies, and games could still be done using DVDs 9. Maybe ms don't need blurays to make games, but customers do need a bluray player to watch blurays. Now that the format is known by everybody, and in this media world, with YouTube, facebook, everything accessible from the tv/console, it would be a stupid step to not give customers the possibility to playback bluray movies.

So, bluray on x720, possible, but only for movies, and not games? For me, possible.
Maybe royalties for games would cost big big money, while just using a bluray player, for movies, its 1/10 the price.

About CPU and gpu, I remember talking about multi chips being cheaper than highend chips. Going dual gpu is certainly much cheaper than using a 500$ chip, that will require a big heat dissipation system.they could save money, and they could make it quieter. But who says dual chip, says 2 times more possible hardware faults. Hope they won't repeat the rrod story again.

As for the CPU,if its a 6 core, I'm not trolling, but one core for Kinect and another one for the system, it just leaves 4 cores for the hard duties. It's barely more than the x360. Sure, the new dual gpu are there, along with more ram, but... For a system that will be released in 2 years, it looks quite underpowered. Like Wii u using 2010 hardware.

*********continue

[portugamer]

**********continue here

I don't know, but one thing is sure: ms only thinks about money. If they can milk people, give them Kinect stuff for the breakfast, and just release a couple of fps, to keep hardcore guys interested, they will do it. They know hardcore people will be happy with a gears, halo, forza games, while all the others, they will eat some kinect.

One thing is sure, they will make you pay for live, ohhh yes, its not going to change.
Even if you only play against people, you will still need a gold shit. Easy money.easy.

Sure, their Microsoft points will continue, the only change will be :
1$= 78,36452 microsoft points.
When you buy a game, the game will cost you 743,45235 points, and you still have 2945.58245 ms points to buy stuff.

The more the pigeons forget about real money and real prices, the easier the cash goes into ms wallet.

I'm a bit disappointed. A big huge bit.after my first rrod, I bought a ps3, and all these years it was like a dream: flawless happy gaming.
I wished Microsoft would release a 16 core CPU, with a big big gpu system, even if a bit expensive, we buy consoles once every 5 years, I'm ok to save 100 or 200 $, and have a future proof system,like the cell and bluray, on the ps3.

I now realize Microsoft wants simply to reach the most casual people as possible, with Kinect features all over, with big head avatars and big red balls, and at the same time, will give hardcore gamers what they need: a new halo, a new gears, a new forza. and thats all folks. No need to buy 1st studios, they will simply pay 50 millions here, 100 millions there, and secure some great exclusive,like a new GTA5, a modern warfare 4,etc. Securing these 2 games would make at least , move 10-15 million ps3 users, and force them to buy a x720.
Why bothering buying new studios, Indies, creating great new franchises, when a you need is paying 100 millions to
-mass effect 4
- GTA5
- call of duty next gen

No need to have uncharteds, killzones,etc. Just buy those exclusives, and its ok.

Well, Microsoft, I think, once again, you won't be respecting me as a gamer, even less as a customer... If you think you can make me play 3 hours, standing in front of my tv, because you decided Kinect will be on every game...
I'm not sure if I will give you my cash. Let's wait and see.

As for Sony... Sony... Please surprise me... And make a phoking great console. Use some triple sli cheap graphic cheaps, a lot of ram, huge CPUs, keep your 1st and 3rd party producing great variety and quality, and, once again, here is my money, my trust, my support. Make me dream, give me 4k blurays playback, and a great and free psn, or an incredibly cheap psn+, with the tones of great free stuff we get, every month.

[madcow60]

Best comment, +++bubbles to you.

[Ulf]

Two GPUs could be used for tiled rendering, as opposed to scan-line interleave. They could also be assigned to work on separate framebuffers, or one GPU could be devoted to doing CUDA-style work, while the other renders.

If this is true, it's very likely that the GPUs are cheap, independently, because together they'd be a match for most anything else an affordable console could put together.

The "performs like a 6670" rumor we heard a while back is likely true -- for one GPU, which is inspirational, because two 6670s would perform on par with a 6850, or thereabouts. The thing that perplexes me is that dual 6670s would probably be more expensive than a single 6850... so why would MS go that route?

The hex-core CPU I also have my doubts about. It's more likely a quad-core, I think. Heat, you know. You can't make a livingroom unit that hot, and not pay out a billion $USD in a replacement program -- which I'm sure they DON'T want to do again.

The worst part about this, if its true, is that such a design will make the Durango an oddball, architecturally. Haven't we already seen the damage that can do, via the PS3? The PS3 is a great design, ahead of its time, for sure (if only the Cell had been paired with an 8600 GT or better... oh well), but... devs hated it before they appreciated it, and that hurt Sony in the beginning.

[Yomaster]

IMHO, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw something similar to dual 6870's and an AMD quad-core akin to the Intel i5-2500K Sandy Bridge in the next Xbox. However, I'm assuming that this console is going to be in the $450-$550 price range. In a year and a half or so, components like these are going to be much cheaper.

Good speculation, though. Makes a lot of sense.

[Yomaster]

Ehh, I'm doubting the need for a constant internet connection, as anti-piracy measures are already built into consoles, but everything else in here makes a lot of sense.

[iliimaster]

an always connected console yeah right that would be suicide

[Chucky2003]

So,its simple for me,i won't buy it

[madcow60]

You can start bookmarking your web based mini flash games ;)

Or buy a Wii. Nintendo actually likes being hacked. While they will make like 50$ cash, on games, for every customer, they will make like 150$ on every Wii u sold. Hacking will help Wii u sales, 10 million hacked Wii U will make 1.5 billion cash. Sell another 100$ on nunchuk , gamepad and cable/adapters, to those 10 million hacked consoles= 1 extra billion. 10 million hacked wiis, Nintendo will make 2.5 easy billion$. Who needs to sell games?

[busytoad]

HaHa they finally gave in,which means they have to pay sony for the blu-ray technology wooot woot. GOOOOO SONY

[PopRocks359]

So when an article saying the Wii U is weaker than the 360/PS3 comes out it's fact but when an article saying the 360 will require an online connection at all times it's an April Fool's prank...

[jacksheen0000]

Personally,

I don't think Xbox 720 will require an always-on internet connection as an anti-piracy measure considering how many people don't have internet.

Instead, I think MS would add WiFi feature build in to xbox720,that connect to a WiFi connection(it has already connected to before) automatically and update by itself.

That, to me would make more sense as an anti-piracy measure in my opinion.

[TeaDouble_E]

Cant wait for e3

[gamer7804]

This is the oppossite of the last rumor, so it has to be true! >.>

First no drive, now a blu ray drive.

I'm sure this is right on the money, why not leave out good portions of consumers who don't have a stable or always on internet connection.