1000°

Tech Focus: MLAA heads for 360 and PC

The PS3 may lose one of its graphical advantages over the Xbox 360, with a team working on implementing a version of Sony’s MLAA anti-aliasing technique seen in such games as God of War 3 and Killzone 3 on Microsoft’s console – and they claim that they’ve “raised the quality bar considerably” over other versions.

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gamesindustry.biz
Convas4700d ago

Excellent news! Hopefully, we start hearing about more titles that take advantage of these technique.

I hear that Battlefield 3 for Xbox 360 will be using FXAA. Interesting stuff indeed!

SillySundae4700d ago ShowReplies(12)
NewMonday4700d ago (Edited 4700d ago )

would like to see it, how much resource dose it take on the 360, how much would be left?

gamingdroid4700d ago (Edited 4700d ago )

They indicated a 2.47ms time compared to Sony's 3-4 ms (on five SPUs) which should give you an indication of resources needed, but more specific information would be nice.

I also would like to see why this is an issue. It's a freaken jagged line, that is already smoothed out as is. Can you even tell the difference?

marison4700d ago

They could and should use the Xenon GPU, unless some CPU resources area idle. With the MEMEXPORT feature the GPU could write on RAM and eat that again.

I see this as a very possible and useful bullet point on game engines.

Ju4700d ago (Edited 4700d ago )

This is using the 360's GPU (read the article). Not possible with the 360s CPU. It has been implemented before using ATIs chips on the PC running shaders. This is most likely a newer (better) implementation.

Arksine4700d ago (Edited 4700d ago )

Because it runs on the GPU it needs to be faster. Running MLAA on the CPU allows the GPU to render the next frame in parallel, whereas a GPU implementation must render then postprocess before the next frame can be rendered.

I'm a bit skeptical of some of their claims, because ATI's implementation of MLAA isn't very good. IIRC there was a Star Wars game that used a similar type of AA for the 360, and while it was ok, it wasn't on par with MLAA.

Pixel_Pusher4700d ago (Edited 4700d ago )

Yeah sorry but until I see proof of a game on the 360 that looks the same or better than GOW3 on the PS3 that's the day I'll concede. Until then it's nothing but hype.

SilentNegotiator4700d ago (Edited 4700d ago )

I'll believe it when I see it (on 360, I mean, not PC). Without the integration of CPU with GPU, I don't think the 360 has the power to use MLAA in a significant way, like PS3 with the massive GOW3 and Kz3.

With PC, I suppose it would make sense if you can effectively emulate higher MSAA without sacrificing as much power.

pixelsword4700d ago

Hey, I thought MLAA sucked, so why is this big news or good news?

Because it was on the...?

Brosy4700d ago (Edited 4700d ago )

The 360 can use MLAA as well as a few other lighting tricks that surpass the PS3. Until I see cross game chat and Viva pinata running on a PS3 I wont be impressed by it. PS3 doesnt have enough general purpose processing to run the a.i. on a game like Viva Pinata let along do cross game chat. Atleast the PS3 has enough fans in other countries outside the US to keep it moderately competitive, otherwise folks would take the obviously better built machine the 360.

BTW for all who dont know a.i. cant be run on the Cells SPEs it can only be run by the Cells PPU.

MaxXAttaxX4700d ago (Edited 4700d ago )

'"Until I see cross game chat and Viva pinata running on a PS3 I wont be impressed by it. PS3 doesnt have enough general purpose processing to run the a.i. on a game like Viva Pinata let along do cross game chat."'

You serious? LMFAO! Hahaha :D
Best joke I've seen here on N4G in a while lol

iagainsti1204700d ago

Brosy is an ignorant fool who dosen't know that he is talking about
1- "The 360 can use MLAA as well as a few other lighting tricks that surpass the PS3."
This part about the MLAA is true but if the game does not use the Cell for lighting then yes you are right but if the lighting is done on the cell then you are wrong as lighting is so much better when written for the Cell"

2- "PS3 doesnt have enough general purpose processing to run the a.i. on a game like Viva Pinata let along do cross game chat. Atleast the PS3 has enough fans in other countries outside the US to keep it moderately competitive, otherwise folks would take the obviously better built machine the 360."
Really? AI is up to the developer it runs just fine on 1ppu core the rest of this is just Face Plam.

3- "BTW for all who dont know a.i. cant be run on the Cells SPEs it can only be run by the Cells PPU."
Well where did you hear this the E3? source pls or im wait im just going to Face Palm this too i dont have time for you anymore.

RememberThe3574700d ago

Whether it blows our minds or not, the fact that they're experimenting with it and trying out new ways of AA is good news. The more people try new things the more solutions we find to prevalent issues.

Instead of being skeptical and negative how about being happy that developers are trying new things.

AAACE54700d ago

Console architecture is designed differently than PC's! PC is designed to do many different things and has to be powerful because other things are running while you are doing whatever.

Consoles are designed to focus on specific task without all the extra crap PC's do!

Consoles have custom hardware! So while the components seem similar to what you already recognize, you forget that each console maker got their CPU and GPU custom made to perform a certain way! Otherwise the consoles would have been cheaper because we would be getting the same thing off the shelf as PC gamers.

Judgment will be reserved for a later date!

sobekflakmonkey4700d ago

Brosy needs to GTFO.

@Brosy

Wow...I have never read such a ridiculous comment before...I'm sorry but games like Killzone 2 and 3 have AMAZING A.I., but you probably wouldn't know...would you? you know...being that you most likely haven't even touched a PS3...

+ Show (11) more repliesLast reply 4700d ago
r1sh124700d ago

Ive said it before:

The hardware will be hitting its max output some time soon, the software will need to improve is techniques to get more from it.
This could be one way (If it works), but its probably possible

Hayabusa 1174700d ago

I would like to point out that PS3's MLAA was also done through software. It was possible on PS3 because it has 3 SPUs but MLAA is software, not hardware.

When you see games that look better than it's precedessors or competition it's primary because of the techniques the graphics programmers use. It's not like the developers slowly turn the "awesome graphics" nob up over time :p

Ness-Psi4700d ago

@Hayabusa117

The Awesome graphics knob! it should implemeted in all PC's lol.

Gray-Fox-Type04700d ago (Edited 4700d ago )

this is great news , Xbox has much graphical capabilities and dominates for multiplatform reasons, but this new technique could rise the bar of the Xbox 360 exclusives and perhaps reach PS3 exlusives :D this articles makes it seem it well go beyond we will see how devs use this.

zinkabass4700d ago Show
BrutallyBlunt4700d ago

zinkabass, still standing by everything you say?

I have a Playstation 3 and a XBOX360, does that mean I am a 3-10 year old or does my age fluctuate pending on which system I am currently using?

You would think after 5 or 6 years these trolls would finally just give up.

M-A-R-S-H-A-L-L4700d ago

Someone has been misinformed and haven't done their research at all.

randomwiz4700d ago

Only one problem - you're using the gpu which is probably already pushed to the max when playing the game. If you're going to use the gpu, you're sacrifice pixel pushing power.

firemassacre4700d ago

gray fox

you cant be serious

Redgehammer4700d ago

Zinkabass, my father would have said you must talk out of your butt, because your mouth knows better.
I have 100 friends on my friends list, and the youngest is 10 (my son) and the oldest is 54 (13 years older than me). Your comments just have the distinct ring of bitter generalizations. Why do you even comment in a 360 article?

fr0sty4700d ago

Gray Fox, MLAA isn't the only thing that makes PS3 exclusives look better. Uncharted has never used it, for instance. Also, being that the GPU is what is handling this, it ties it up before it can render the next frame as well, so there is a performance hit vs. on PS3 where the CPU is able to do it while the GPU keeps on chugging along. Typically PS3 games are not CPU bound, so there are SPU's the can be freed up to do things like this with a minimal impact on performance.

strickers4700d ago

You actually believe that AA is the difference between PS3 exclusives and 360 ones?
It's not.

bunfighterii4699d ago

Now all 360 needs is exclusives to utilise the technique...

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 4699d ago
4700d ago Replies(9)
Crazyglues4700d ago (Edited 4700d ago )

Actually I'm a PS3 fan, but I think this is good news for Gamers.. Why?

It's good to see Microsoft raising the bar, competition is what makes the game companies try harder... -So if more companies start using this then they will make better games for 360 and PS3.. instead of ugly ports..

-and it means better games which is always good no matter what you play on.. We all want, just really good games..

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digoutyoursoul84700d ago

well said young man, well said.

sobekflakmonkey4700d ago (Edited 4700d ago )

Agreed.

Competition pushes the industry, it's an extremely important part of the gaming industry itself.

xAlmostPro4700d ago

This is awesome news.. but and im not trolling when i say this it doesn't fix the disc space issue -_-

you can make it look as pretty as you want but without the storage it's gonna be either really short or on multiple discs.. MD' isn't that much of an issue but it can be annoying..

anyways im excited to see what they do with this :)

bozebo4700d ago (Edited 4700d ago )

True.
MD is an issue if the game needs to be open world though.

JsonHenry4700d ago

My HD5870 already did this I thought?

Liquid_Ocelot4700d ago

Great news!!
Can't hate on this, it's always great to see that we keep moving forward. Great news for our Xbox brothers indeed. Rejoice!

Brosy4700d ago

NathanExplosion I cant help your ignorance as well as any of the other sony fanboys on this site, all I can do is try to educate you. And I think thats a useless endeavor.

+ Show (8) more repliesLast reply 4699d ago
THC CELL4700d ago

U mean exclusives will look better on xbox that ps3, hm.............. Lol yea sure they will, sony will laugh there ass off at that one.. I garantee bf3 will be the worst in the consoles.

The Meerkat4700d ago

Can we all quote you on that one?

UltimateIdiot9114700d ago

I'll believe it when I see it until then it's just all mumble jumbo words.

WhiteLightning4700d ago (Edited 4700d ago )

Agreed...

We've been lied to before by Microsoft, I'm not falling for it again....."Theres hardcore games coming to Kinect", "Core gamers LOVE Kinect", "Core gamers are our main focus". Over and over again they say the same things and now they expect us to believe that they have done this for core gamers after yesterday in that article they said casual gamers were their main focus.

Not being fooled again

As you said....I'll beleive it when I see it.

kneon4700d ago

This isn't coming from Microsoft, it's from some graphics researchers. Microsoft had some involvement but they don't own it. The code is available under a BSD license which means anyone can use it.

So while it will benefit the XBox it may equally benefit PC, Wii U and even the PS3 as it's a more efficient way to implement MLAA.

UltimateIdiot9114700d ago

I do understand that it's coming from graphic researchers but again, there have been many researchers who claim many things but fail to come up with substantial results.

I don't doubt they are working on something of this sort but I don't know if it's as great as they say. It's dealing with graphics here and that requires us to look at it first. So while it may look good in their eyes, in reality, it could look meh.

MOTY4700d ago (Edited 4700d ago )

@ WhiteLightning

"Theres hardcore games coming to Kinect"

- Ryse - CORE
- Fable - CORE
- Child of Eden - CORE
- Haunt - CORE
- Star Wars - CORE
- Rise of Nightmares - CORE

Kinect implemented games

- Mass Effect 3
- Ghost Recon
- Halo CE Anniversary
- EA 2012 Sports Titles
- Forza 4

Doesn't look like MS lied.

"Core gamers LOVE Kinect"

I'm a core gamer and I love Kinect. Can't wait to play some of those listed core games as well as use my Kinect for games like ME3, Forza 4 and Ghost Recon.

MS didn't Lie again.

"Core gamers are our main focus"

XBOX 360 has a CORE library that far surpasses the Casual library. There are more games coming out each year on the XBOX360 that are core games than casual. If 3rd party support for Kinect games count as MS focusing on Casual, then 3rd party support for Core games also means that MS is focusing on Core as well.

Gears 3
Forza 4
The Whitcher 2
Halo CE Anniversary
CoD Timed exclusive DLC
The largest library of Indie and Arcade games

Seems to be a rather large focus. 1st and 3rd party support.

MS didn't lie again.

I fail to see where MS were lying.

I don't agree with you.

callahan094700d ago

@MOTY:
"- Ryse - CORE
- Fable - CORE
- Child of Eden - CORE
- Haunt - CORE
- Star Wars - CORE
- Rise of Nightmares - CORE "

So I take it that "CORE" to you is based entirely on theme?

fr0sty4700d ago (Edited 4700d ago )

um, half of those games are either on rails or only use kinect for non-gameplay purposes (forza 4's car view mode, ghost recon's weapon mod mode, neither are used while actually playing the game). then there's others that use nothing other than kinect's mic, which is a feature that is far from exclusive to kinect. all modern systems have a mic and can do voice recognition. hell, the n64 was doing voice recognition back in the day, so did dreamcast with seaman.

The only compelling use of kinect so far IN GAME that isn't another arcade on rails experience is forza's head tracking, but even GT5 had that.

4700d ago
bozebo4700d ago (Edited 4700d ago )

"there's massive lag"

^ this, is why there can be no core kinect games.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 4700d ago
TimeSkipLuffy4700d ago

I don't care! Just wanna play good games. There is not that much difference between those two consoles anyway. It's not like MS has NES and PS has GameCube graphics.

Anon19744700d ago ShowReplies(1)
falout4700d ago

I agree..

This place with ppl like darkride always leave me scratching my head wonder if I got a ps3 knock off or something. They always make it seem as if the ps3 is leaps and abounds ahead of 360 graphics like if the ps3 is some super pc rig and the 360 is the original xbox.

Darkride cry all you want but every game you mentioned looks great be a gamer and stop with all this ms hat you spew on every 360 article. My goodness! You act as if ms raped your mom had you and never paid child support.

gamingdroid4700d ago (Edited 4700d ago )

I kind of agree with this. It's not like the PS3 is some graphical leap above anything else out there. In fact, the graphics is so similar to the Xbox 360 it is plain ridiculous. You want great looking games, go to PC and you will get full 1080p in all it's glory.

If you just want to game, then even the Wii will do!

pixelsword4700d ago

@ falout Darkride didn't say that any PS3 game looked like a high end PC rig...

A few other guys said it though, and I think I can trust the source...

http://www.gamespot.com/for...

starchild4700d ago

I completely agree with this.

I play on PC, PS3, and 360, and it's crazy how close the graphics are on PS3 and 360.

I have been playing the Uncharted 3 beta and I honestly think the Gears of War 3 beta looked a bit better. Overall, though, the best looking games on both consoles are at a similar level of graphics.

If you want a decent leap above that, you have to get a gaming PC.

falout4700d ago (Edited 4700d ago )

@pixlesword

He didn't say it out right in here but he sure as he'll acts like it is a high end pc rig in 99.9% of his posts.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 4700d ago
MASTER_RAIDEN4700d ago

AGREE! i first clicked on the article because i was wondering just what the hell MLAA was..then i see that it has a thing or two to do with graphics, and 160 comments from about 100 sweaty fanboys trying to downplay this achievement. get real guys..ps3s graphics are better than 360s. NOT by leaps n bounds, but its visuals are Superior in most ways. whatever upgrades the 360s visuals get due to MLAA will probably be very slight and more of the same. no need to get all defensive.

kudakadere4700d ago

If only they still put more investment into hardcore games as they used to.

Show all comments (222)
200°

More Job Losses At Xbox, “There’s More To Come”: Paul Thurrott

Paul Thurrott in a recent episode commented on the on-going Microsoft fiasco hinting at more job losses and that "there's more to come".

Read Full Story >>
spieltimes.com
Sonic18817h ago(Edited 6h ago)

There won't be no more acquiring game publishers from Microsoft in the future . Xbox has to pay Microsoft back. It might take two decades to do that.

sagapo3h ago(Edited 3h ago)

I don’t understand what you’re saying. Xbox IS microsoft so there’s no “paying back “.
And MS gross profit in 2023 was over 140 billion dollars so forget your 2 decades.

Unless you mean the money MS invested in Xbox (acquisitions included) and the time it will take for xbox as a brand to gain that money back on it’s own, then yeah, that could take a while.

SonyStyled3h ago

“There won't be no more acquiring game publishers from Microsoft in the future”

No bro, there do be is for Microsoft not acquiring for what is now if not what it be is 😂

Ms3tjt1h ago

“ Xbox has to pay Microsoft back. ”

Aka

“I don’t know how business works”

jwillj2k46h ago

There really needs to be a class action lawsuit here. You buy these companies just to put people out of jobs. And it’s not like something happened to derail their plans this WAS the plan. Microsoft has no business in this space at all.

franwex6h ago(Edited 6h ago)

Microsoft has been doing this for years. They simply want the IPs. Look at Nokia. Look at Skype. This time it simply expanded to games. Gaming is not as important to Microsoft’s executives as it was to the founders too. Bill Gates was willing to sell the og Xbox at a loss. Steve Balmer approved the red ring of death fiasco. This CEO isn’t really a gamer.

-Foxtrot5h ago

Maybe it's time though to put a stop to it and use a big giant like Microsoft as a huge example to the rest of these big companies.

There has to be a line drawn somewhere.

People like the FTC and the like went against Microsoft yet their Actvision deal was still allowed to go through yet look what's happened...it's not even Acitivisions studios aswell, it's Bethesdas.

RNTody5h ago

Ninja Theory, Perfect Dark, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Wolfenstein 3, Dishonored, Prey, Doom, Quake... something tells me that bad things are going to happen to these entities under Microsoft.

anast5h ago

Good thing the bosses of all those small studios made their money.

glenn19794h ago

they cant do it right now they will get burned

Show all comments (16)
90°

Microsoft Opening Xbox Mobile Game Store in July

The Xbox brand is expanding, as an Xbox mobile game store is opening this coming July where Microsoft will brings its "first-party portfolio."

Jin_Sakai1d 20h ago (Edited 1d 20h ago )

“Bond adds that they will start on the web”

This will go nowhere.

Nice knowing you Xbox. This is what happens when the house never gets cleaned.

MrDead1d 20h ago

The only this MS is expanding is the amount of feculence it sprays on everyone who just want to enjoy gaming and make games.

The best thing MS can do for the gaming industry is leave and never return.

XiNatsuDragnel1d 18h ago

Good luck with this even it might not succeed.

Show all comments (7)
210°

Microsoft once tried to nab LittleBigPlanet from Sony after a few drinks

It turns out that many moons ago, Microsoft once had its eye on the Sony published LittleBigPlanet series.

Read Full Story >>
eurogamer.net
XiNatsuDragnel2d ago

Microsoft had a good idea but fumbled it again.

Cacabunga1d 7h ago (Edited 1d 7h ago )

Project Spark idea was decent but they quickly gave up ..
LBP was wonderful

ApocalypseShadow2d ago

Microsoft in a nutshell. Always tried to poach Sony employees, games, 3rd party games and devices like the depth camera that was turned into Kinect but was running on PS2 before Xbox 360. Wouldn't be surprised they wanted LBP. Just like they worked behind the scenes pushing the MLB to bring Sony's baseball game to Xbox instead of making their own.
https://www.playstationlife...

They didn't spend years trying to develop their own baseball game. They wanted Sony's game.

They're scum.

Zachmo1821d 6h ago

Microsoft didn't force MLB on Xbox. MLB gave Sony 2 options either go multiplat or risk losing the license.

Rynxie21h ago

And why do you think MLB said that? I believe Ms approached MLB.

ApocalypseShadow20h ago(Edited 20h ago)

Totally ridiculous comment.

The only exclusivity Sony had was to their own creation of The Show. Microsoft could have paid the MLB for the license just like Sony did and made their own baseball game.

Microsoft instead, groomed MLB for years in trying to poach Sony's game and bring it to Xbox. They're worth 3 TRILLION dollars. You think that's not enough money to make their own baseball game? Don't be delusional.

Microsoft spun it like they always do and told the media that they had to trust Sony with their hardware. After they put Sony in that position of not having a choice. Either go multiplatform or stop making one of their successful games. That's a no win scenario.

And what did Microsoft do? They didn't try to sell the game to the Xbox community. They put it on game pass to hurt Sony. Pushing the idea of why buy games that are $70 when you can play them in their cheap service for $10. It was a dirty tactic.

You fell for the Kool aid drink Microsoft served you instead of spitting it out. Hope it tasted good because you were fooled by Phil and the gang.

15h ago
Hereandthere11h ago

Xbox executive Sara Bond has told Axios that Microsoft spent a number of years trying to get MLB The Show onto Xbox consoles. And when it finally succeeded in breaking off PlayStation’s long-held exclusivity, the company had to “trust” Sony with pre-release Xbox Series X/S consoles.

Bond revealed that MLB The Show “always came up” in conversations between Microsoft and the Major League Baseball organization. “We always said, ‘We love this game. It would be a huge opportunity to bring it to Xbox.'” she recalled. However, when Microsoft’s efforts materialized, it put the company in an awkward situation where it had to send in pre-release consoles to a rival company.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 11h ago
Notellin17h ago

"Microsoft instead, groomed MLB for years in trying to poach Sony's game and bring it to Xbox."

Take a nap, conspiracies are rotting your brain.

15h ago
Hereandthere11h ago

Xbox executive Sara Bond has told Axios that Microsoft spent a number of years trying to get MLB The Show onto Xbox consoles. And when it finally succeeded in breaking off PlayStation’s long-held exclusivity, the company had to “trust” Sony with pre-release Xbox Series X/S consoles.

Hereandthere11h ago

They were too cheap/inept/lazy to develop their own mlb game, so they port begged for years and bribed the mlb to make the show multiplatform. Like i said many times, xbox brought nothing to the table their 24 years, ZERO.

OtterX1d 9h ago

"However, Healey said Media Molecule wouldn't have felt right doing that, adding it would have been "morally corrupt"."

Major kudos to Media Molecule for being an upright studio with principles.

RNTody1d 9h ago (Edited 1d 9h ago )

Great, more stories like this please. Show the last of the zombies holding the line what we've been saying for years: Microsoft is anti competition, anti industry and has no interest in making games at all.

But hey, at least there's an Xbox Games Showcase to look forward to, right?

Inverno1d 8h ago

Well considering SONY just killed the series, LBP would've been dead by now either way. Though MM probably wouldn't exist by now either, so I'm glad they stayed with SONY, hopefully they don't get shut down any time soon or ever honestly.

Sheppard7t31d 6h ago

How did Sony kill the series?

Inverno1d 6h ago

They shut down the servers, that's millions of user created levels gone. That and dead are pretty much the same, it's also been years since 3 and they cancelled HUB soooo.

15h ago
fsfsxii17h ago

They shutdown the servers because no one was playing, no one in the community cared about the user created levels so why keep them up? Wtf you guys would never succeed in running a business.

Inverno15h ago

Yea dood no one was playing so they shut off the servers. Cause people with enough common sense can't just Google why they were actually shut of, right?

Show all comments (26)