Is “GPU Acceleration” Xbox One Secret Sauce

A look at the Xbox One's secret weapon

[xHeavYx]

So many "secret" weapons, but nothing real, first the cloud, then dGPU, now this. What's next?

[black0o]

another day with another secret in the xbone (-_-)

off topic: M.Cerny never compared Ps4 too x1 or hinted anything about the other camp nor talked in PR stuns

[Bigpappy]

No one asked him. People are always asking are always asking M$ Exec's about PS4 so they answer. Haven't herd them say a negative thing about PS4 yet.

[sincitysir1]

Xbox is becoming like the.krusty. crab. All kinds of dear ol secret sauces. Just be.upfront already jeez, they r trying to hard to defend their product every few hrs its oozing with desperation

[xHeavYx]

@Bigpappy
People ask MS because they give info that make no sense, like the latest Neogaf fiasco by Penello

[Angeljuice]

I think this is a bit of wishful thinking really. Another hope to be dashed I expect. The author even admits to being a big MS fan so make of that what you will.

[NatureOfLogic]

Xbox One is weaker than PS4, everyone knows that. Now Xbox fanboys are trying to grasp at any and every little thing to close the gap. MS is releasing a weaker console #dealwithit. Xbox One will have inferior multiplat games, so what. Just play the games and be happy. If you want the best specs and superior next gen multiplats get a PS4 for cheaper. It's that simple.

[XB1_PS4]

While something like this would make very interesting news if true, I don't see it happening. Why would Microsoft keep any secrets about potential speed boosts. They sure did hurry that overclock on the CPU out. No matter what software the XWon runs, the GPU in the PS4TW is more powerful.

Also to all the people above me. This has nothing to do with Microsoft. This article is by Rickey Gibson and Tyler Zdenek. Blame them.

Furthermore, The majority of people commenting on this are Sony fans, not Xbox fans "Grasping at Straws".

[BitbyDeath]

Just getting sad now.

http://i.minus.com/ilERlIua...

[NewMonday]

LOL

that gif is a perfect discription

[JokesOnYou]

No Heavy BigBappy is correct the sony cheerleaders over at neogaf continue making false claims like the yeild problems and manufacturing delays, 50% power mis-qoutes of devs and accuse Penello etc of all sorts of stuff and the guy respectfully answers them and said nothing bad about sony. Truth is sonyfanboys have built a record of caring far more about X1 than X1 folks care about ps4. Its apparent in every specs, games, policy, kinect or business related article to microsoft yet you act naive as to why the guy is speaking out.

[denawayne]

Joke - You couldn't be more right. I'm getting an Xbox One so I only concentrate on Xbox One articles. It's getting ridiculous how many Sony fans comment in Xbox related articles. It's almost like they're constantly trying to justify their decision. Sad really.

[xHeavYx]

@Jokes
Nobody said anything about rumors. I was talking about some of Penello's claims that made no sense from a technical standpoint.
Grasping straws much to defend your precious cable box?
@denawayne
You can say the same about Xbox fans coming up with positive rumors that end up being debunked

[ShwankyShpanky]

@JOY: "accuse Penello etc of all sorts of stuff and the guy respectfully answers" with bullshit.

I've read through more than 15 pages of that 20+ page GAF thread, and people are asking very straightforward questions that Penello refuses to answer. Penello claims the Xbone has a faster CPU... but Sony hasn't released their CPU clock, so people asked how he knew Xbone's was faster. No response from Penello.

Penello said that the 6% clock boost on the CUs resulted in more than a 6% performance boost. People asked how, because that doesn't make sense. No answer from Penello.

Penello said that 50% more CUs on the PS4 GPU doesn't equate to a 50% performance gain for the chip, because there is inherent efficiency losses the higher the CU count. But those efficiency losses don't apply to highly parallel calculations, like with graphics calculations. People pointed that out and asked for clarification. No response from Penello.

(well, there was his "I know a wizard" response ... sorry ... "I know a Technical Fellow and they're super smart and he says it's true.")

And then of course there's the good ol' memory bandwidth issue... with Penello adding the DDR3 bandwidth to the eSRAM bandwidth to get a peak of 272Gb/s. Funny thing about that is that apparently when you run with "MS math," the 360 had higher bandwidth than the Xbone!

"Our peak on paper is 272gb/sec."
http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

"Xbox 360 has 278.4 GB/s of memory system bandwidth."
http://majornelson.com/2005...

There are plenty of people on GAF that are familiar with the technical ins and outs of game development and computer science, and they're calling Penello on his spin. Pathetically attempting to label them as "Sony chearleaders" does nothing but heap more sand upon your deeply buried head.

[P0werVR]

^

It's simple.

Sony can't because it's design is final.

Believe me when I tell you that when companies have ANYTHING to claim they'll do so. Since not eve a hint of anything but the specs announced a while back tells you they have nothing else but added features.

Their last conference should hint to you that FACT since it was only Deep Down and PS Vita TV that was announced...

Also, how can you not do YOUR OWN DD and find that they've stated it time and time again that the ESRAM is an upgrade from EDRAM. Two totally different designs and why ESRAM is an integral part of the Xbox One, pointed DIRECTLY at the GPU!

How can anyone debunk anything that hasn't even been proven otherwise?! Consoles hasn't even released, and they've said it'll take overtime for Azure to show it's true potential. Games to look out for are Black Tusk Studio's game, Forza 5 and Sunset Overdrive.

NOTHING HAS BEEN DEBUNKED!

Can anyone prove me their arguments?! This a so called "discussion" board isn't it??

EDIT:

You should leave GAF...and go to beyond3d if you your fuzzy lil' head can handle the technical part.

[whoyouwit04]

but jack trentin did it plenty, So don't act like Mirosoft is the only one that is bringing up the competitor.

[JokesOnYou]

@Shwanky
"I've read through more than 15 pages of that 20+ page GAF thread, and people are asking very straightforward questions"

-Some yes but there is a lot of this too:
"Penello just keeps digging his hole ..STHAP"
"Shut up with all this PR nonsense"
"Forty f**king percent! Where's my whiskey bottle?"

"Penello claims the Xbone has a faster CPU... but Sony hasn't released their CPU clock, so people asked how he knew Xbone's was faster. No response from Penello."
-Well its simple here the normal clockspeed for AMD's Jaguar is 1.6 http://www.anandtech.com/sh... sure sony could have upclocked too but they aren't on record stating such with hundreds of sites coming to this conclusion they have never denied it while micro did state an upgraded CPU clockspeed.

"Penello said that the 6% clock boost on the CUs resulted in more than a 6% performance boost. People asked how, because that doesn't make sense. No answer from Penello."
-Wrong he did answer its right in his statement: "Adding to that, each of our CU's is running 6% faster. It's not simply a 6% clock speed increase overall." -Its not his fault if fanboys just say no, no, no you're wrong...prove it.

"Penello said that 50% more CUs on the PS4 GPU doesn't equate to a 50% performance gain for the chip, because there is inherent efficiency losses the higher the CU count."
-Wrong he said "18 CU's vs. 12 CU's =/= 50% more performance. Multi-core processors have inherent inefficiency with more CU's, so it's simply incorrect to say 50% more GPU."= True

"And then of course there's the good ol' memory bandwidth issue"

Not the same comparison years apart and Major is calculating total bandwidth of both I believe which extreme tech outlined years ago with this: "The Xbox 360 has an extensive amount of bandwidth in comparison to its competition; however, this statistic includes the eDRAM logic to memory bandwidth, and not internal CPU bandwidths. The eDRAM internal logic to its internal memory bandwidth is 256 GB/s. The high bandwidth is used primarily for z-buffering, alpha blending, and antialiasing; it saves time and space on the GPU die. Between the eDRAM die and the GPU, data is transferred at 32 GB/s. The memory interface bus has a bandwidth of 22.40 GB/s and the Southbridge a bandwidth of 500 MB/s."
http://www.extremetech.com/...

-Again I think Alberts mistake is engaging with neogaf at all,(I said this a couple weeks ago) they will twist everything he says or just call it PR. I don't think most people there are interested in the actual differences they only just want to hear that the ps4 is a super computer capable of cooking you breakfast.

[IRetrouk]

I keep hearing stuff about the xbox having customised chips and sony having off the shelf parts, didnt mark cerny state that both the cpu and gpu in the ps4 were modified? Look back at the first video of mark explaining the ins and outs of the ps4 for the answer

[DoubleM70]

You right it's these Ponies that are saying this %30 to %50 percent. Do you expect that big a difference on $500 hundred dollar machines. The specs and Arch are identical.

[theWB27]

Specs aside....the games do the talking. I won't refute the difference on paper...IDK.

The comparisons I see and the news put together....it won't be that big of a difference.

PC elitists laugh at people who think the PS4 is a high end PC.

Kinda makes you think then the X1 is so weak it's a WiiU.

Strictly games...it's running every third party game the PS4 is running and devs say there won't be much of a difference.

If only a handful of Sony devs..mainly SSM and ND...really show the difference in power would it be something to keep boasting about?

If a few years down the road the PS4 gets a few extra bumps in detail..yet the X1 gets the core game intact is there anything gamers are missing out on?

Everyone knows the paper specs are great...but actions speak louder than words and the X1 isn't lagging behind. Gamers are getting powerful systems on both sides...even if there is no secret sauce.

@black0o
I could link to IGN saying the PS4 demo was sorely lacking in visuals and was only running 16 players. We could go back and forth about who said what.

I could say the X1 supports DirectX and we know DICE is supporting it on PC....it wouldn't solve or prove anything at this point especially since DICE is adamant about not showing BF running on consoles.

All in all...it's still getting the core game.

[black0o]

example
BF4 on ps4 runs at higher thn 720p
http://www.craveonline.com/...

http://abload.de/img/jackbf...

while x1 runs at 720p

guess what's gonna happen after a year or 18 months

[Bigpappy]

I never get too evolved in the spec's wars. These games are optimized for the hardware they run on. Not everyone has the same power PC yet they all go on 'steam', download what they want and play it. Same will happen here and the results will be even closer.

No if some one was to ask me what I think is X1 biggest feature over PS4, I would have to say Kinect. Kinect is the secret sauce. It is going to sell more X1's for M$ than any single game or feature.

Matching power and graphics only here with fanboy wars. But unique features truly work as a selling tool.

[mcstorm]

@Bigpappy good to here someone not being a fancy boy on here. Im sure people on this site who keep talking about power have only been gaming for ps3 generation. Power has never been the reason why people buy a games console.

Example, Wii, ps2, psx over the last 3 gens had the lest power out of the other consoles in the same generation but they had the games people wanted.

Another example the 360 was the go to console for games at the start of this generation and that a why it sold well but as the generation went on Sony brought out more ips and the ps3 sales picked up.

The start of a new generation is not about power or 3rd party games it about the exclusive games as the cod and bf fans will not be buying a new console for the same game they can gent on there current gen console and the ps3 and 360 still have games like gta 5 and gt6 which are not on the new gen consoles.

Another example is the psv. It is far better than the 3ds in terms of specs but it is lacking the games and this is the reason why its not selling as well as the 3ds.

The next gen is going to be interesting as the ps4, Wiiu and Xbox one all have must own games as of the end of this year but it will be between Christmas this year and next we will are which console the main stream and core gamers want.

[itBourne]

I think this whole power debate is nonsense as well. I mean a high end pc wins out. If you want the best experience get it on pc, end of debate.

The reason to own a console is for the exclusive games, among a few other reasons. 28 of my 37 games on ps3 are ONLY on ps3. I have a few multiplatform games for playing with friends, and the rest are on my pc.

[IRetrouk]

@bigpappy, i disagree, kinect has only sold to a fraction of the 360 install base, i think you are giving it more credit as a system seller than it deserves, i dont think kinect is as popular as you think, i dont think kinect 2.0 would sell any better than the first and thats why its coming in with the system, either way this next gen is gonna be close, i cant wait for all the new games :-)

[2cents]

To be fair, the only one of those that you list has been actually proclaimed by microsoft is the cloud.

It's all speculation created by people, that gets latched onto and everyone starts discussing it to hell. Then MS will say no its a false rumor.
And then the process starts again.

Its become like a gameshow, a bad gameshow. "And todays rumour will beeeeee....... drum roll.... (insert rumour here).

[Elit3Nick]

What do you mean "first the cloud"? You have to be in total denial if you think that the cloud doesn't exist/work. We already have many examples of the cloud in action, Azure itself is used to provide more processing power to computers, we had onlive which processed complete games all from the cloud, and even Gaikai to some degree.

[xHeavYx]

The funny thing is that you say it's me the one in total denial

[Nekroo91]

the problem with the cloud its limited by bandwith , so what xbox fans were thinking its not possible. image countries with low internet speeds they would have breaks on single player games. is that a way to get supporters? No.

hell most part of the world doesent even support internet speeds for that to happen

[Regis]

@Nekroo91 Recently AT&T bought more Speed access from Verizon for 1.9 billion so I will receive in increase in bandwith so I will have better connectivity to said clouds and severs. But sad for Europe who won't receive very good bandwith from both Gaikai and Azure.

[testerg35]

Nekroo91, so how does Gaika work? The slower the internet speed, the closer I get to only playing pong?

[kneon]

@Regis

It doesn't really matter how fast your internet might be when most other people still have limited bandwidth.

Dvs are going to limit what the do with the cloud because most people won't have sufficient bandwidth to do too much.

Because there is no guarantee regarding the bandwidth and latency they will mainly use the cloud for non-critical features. It would be silly to expend a lot of effort on something that few users can really use.

[ATi_Elite]

The next Xbox One secret..........

"There is really a PS4 inside there" LMAO

[modesign]

how about a original title.

[Forza]

Original Xbox was much more powerful than PS2 with its Nvidia GPU and Intel processor and yet most games looked the same and most people couldn't tell a difference.

PS3 was supposedly 2x more powerful than Xbox 360 and yet we didn't see even 00.1x the difference in power. Pretty much no difference at all. If any, Xbox 360 actually ran some multiplatform games better.

I bet millions we don't see any differences between Xbox One and PS4 in graphical capability. They both are gonna look the same even if Xbox One launch games looked better over all. Spec sheets mean nothing in real-time performance. U can look at the differences between latest dual core iPhones vs quad core Androids running at a higher clock speed, real-time performance is what matters. Both consoles use similar APU tech and capable of running games at 1080p max.

PS4 fanboyz need to know about the law of diminishing returns. PS4 spec just doesn't go far enough for an average gamer to see any difference in graphics and overall performance. If people's sole reason is "Graphics" then they will be very disappointed cause PS4 & Xbox One games will look identical. If graphic's is your main concern which in N4G, it seems it is...Just get a f****** high end PC and ur sorted cause PS4 VS Xbox One, u just will not see the huge graphical difference.

Go ahead Sony fanboyz, press the negative button. N4G is filled with Sonyfanboyz. It'll only prove i am right.

[xReDeMpTiOnx]

Not one 360 game technically and graphically outshines last of us. Hell or even gow3 or uc2

[Forza]

@xReDeMpTiOnx

That's ur opinion. I though Gears of War 3 & Halo 4 matched Uncharted 3 & Last of Us in graphics but ultimately the best looking game on console is a multiplatform game...Crysis 3. Simply the best looking game i have seen this generation on consoles and the best looking game ever via PC. GTA5 is also looking like a solid contender for the best console graphics.

I own a PS3 & Xbox 360. I enjoy both consoles, i'm just stating my opinion how i see it.

[M-M]

"Original Xbox was much more powerful than PS2 with its Nvidia GPU and Intel processor and yet most games looked the same and most people couldn't tell a difference."

That's actually pretty false, most Xbox games looked better than PS2 games because it was more powerful.

"PS3 was supposedly 2x more powerful than Xbox 360 and yet we didn't see even 00.1x the difference in power. Pretty much no difference at all. If any, Xbox 360 actually ran some multiplatform games better."

Somewhat false again, not a single Xbox game looks as good as The Last Of Us, Uncharted 2-3, or the upcoming Beyond: Two Souls. 360 ran most mutiplatform games better because the architecture was much easier than that of a PS3.

"I bet millions we don't see any differences between Xbox One and PS4 in graphical capability. They both are gonna look the same even if Xbox One launch games looked better over all. Spec sheets mean nothing in real-time performance. U can look at the differences between latest dual core iPhones vs quad core Androids running at a higher clock speed, real-time performance is what matters. Both consoles use similar APU tech and capable of running games at 1080p max."

PS4 games such as KZ:SF and Driveclub look better than Xbox One launch exclusives, although games like Ryse and Forza 5 look great. There will be differences, people will be able to tell the differences as the PS4 will perform better, but it won't be astronomically huge. Games on both systems will be able to run games(not graphic heavy games) in the middle or end of their life cycles, it's pretty much a given.

"PS4 fanboyz need to know about the law of diminishing returns. PS4 spec just doesn't go far enough for an average gamer to see any difference in graphics and overall performance. If people's sole reason is "Graphics" then they will be very disappointed cause PS4 & Xbox One games will look identical. If graphic's is your main concern which in N4G, it seems it is...Just get a f****** high end PC and ur sorted cause PS4 VS Xbox One, u just will not see the huge graphical difference.

Go ahead Sony fanboyz, press the negative button. N4G is filled with Sonyfanboyz. It'll only prove i am right."

True colors shown, N4G username is Forza.

[Lykon]

Well I'm a Sony fan (sort of) and I agree with you. To some extent anyway. It's true about the law of diminishing returns. i.e. ...it takes a large jump in hardware power for a significant increase in graphics and frame rate. I'm sure there will be 1st party studios who eke out the most from each system. The competition is good for all of us.

[Jazz4108]

Cant people wait till the darn thing is released instead of looking for articles 24 hours aday to bash it and high five one another. This gets really old for people who want to read real unbiased news. Sorry but this is my opinion.

[Patm82]

don't forget the 12gig ram lol :)

[Trekster_Gamer]

The games are real you blind PS troll. Look at the frackin games we have seen...

[TheXgamerLive]

Open your eyes little man. Xbox One games look and play better so hmmmm somerhing must be true.

[otherZinc]

@xHeavYx #1

What's real is; Forza 5 running 1080p "native" @ 60fps.

See, that's all talk aside! Meanwhile, other devs say "we're running our game well over 30fps": what does that mean?

Talk is cheap, Forza 5 is displaying power on screen for us to see for ourselves!

[xHeavYx]

Read this comment and cry
http://n4g.com/news/1351788...

[XboxFun]

Excellent article.

A lot of people just copy and paste what they see but don't understand.

Both systems have absolute gorgeous graphics. But we have some on here who just keep spouting DDR Remix!

We will definitely see Xbox One come into it's own further down the line and then this will go the way of RAM, hUMA and the FCC report (Oh, and MS selling off Xbox).

Edit:
So many "tears" from the other camp, what's next?

[gaelic_laoch]

M$'s secret sauce is 99% BS and 1% Methane

[BattleTorn]

And some blue food coloring to appear like Heisenbergs

[Elit3Nick]

I'm sorry I didn't realize that you own an Xb1, seriously hold your fanboy comments until the consoles actually come out, the fact you say these things is because you're hoping it's not true.

[ShwankyShpanky]

>>So many "tears" from the other camp

From laughing, perhaps.

[Ksar]

Haters gonna hate.

[HeyImBen11]

Makes no sense.

[Angeljuice]

Dummies gonna post

[GoodnessGreatness]

Idiot's gonna post.

[ZHZ90]

Copying the same thing over and over, oh poor troll.

[HeyImBen11]

What's the next "secret weapon"? Kinect acts like another GPU?

[spongeboob]

Funny you say that, yesterday on GAF someone was joking that a third GPU was in the power brick. LOL

[Godz Kastro]

Its funny how people are going back and forth over this. Waste of time IMO. I say it now and said it all along...look at the games. Both sytems are on par. John Carmack said the same, Ill take his owrd over N4G any day.

These same people will be posting on the day they get their systems. Not enjoying games but rather argue about them. Womp womp...

I cant wait for x1 so I can stop visiting this site for news.

[GodGinrai]

Im with you on that one Godz Kastro. The vibe around here is pretty negative to say the least.Thinking of just reading the news on IGN/eurogamer etc. and staying way the hell away from N4g.

Im getting bored of seeing these articles . We already know the specs of X1..next subject plese. you already know what type of people make up most of the 300+ post on this thread. Not gonna say anything more than that. So dont pay it no mind. I just gloss over the BS comments and I dont give em a second thought.

[Elit3Nick]

I've thought so many times of just leaving this site and the fanboys to bicker among themselves but unfortunately there is no other site that organizes all gaming news in one place :/

[n4rc]

Its why I keep coming back... I'm at work in my phone... Having everything in one place makes life easier.. Even if I have to search thru all the bs to get to facts

[NatureOfLogic]

teh cloudz, teh dedicated serverz, teh dGPU, teh Rise graphics, teh mega ultimate Titan Fall and now teh GPU acceleration super secret sauce. What a joke.

[n4rc]

Seriously dude.. Are you over 14?

[BattleTorn]

Nurture*OfLogic

[lifeisgamesok]

LOL

[nick309]

Your nickname does not match your words,Where is the nature of the logic here?

[starchild]

Oh jeez, you're such a fanboy.

[Foxgod]

People can cling on to specs all they want, its the games that make the difference, and the X1 games are making the difference.

[FrigidDARKNESS]

Very true, specs don't mean a damn thing if the engineering and architecture design isn't great. The x1 is an engineering marvel.

the specialised chips have not been all revealed or gone in to depth. Especially the processors to help out physics. I want to know more about that because if thats powerful, then you don't need the gpu to help.

[DoesUs]

"The x1 is an engineering marvel."

It really isn't. Still not listening to me huh? Oh weell, see you in November.

[Foxgod]

Yeah, its going to be deja vu, n4g viewers will be mass complaining about reviewers giving higher scores to x1 games.

[FrigidDARKNESS]

@Doesus lol dude i would rather have a fully customizedd system designed from the ground up than a system that uses low cost off the shelf PC parts as stated by Sony CFO.

[Brix90]

Let's not get carried away now the X1 will be as good as 360 but "The X1 is an engineering marvel" is crazy when it's big, drags along a power brick and the controllers uses batteries. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to list them as negatives but rather can be seen as poor choices of engineering. As for GPU and graphics, etc I will just have to wait and see after launch whether I get one.

[Elit3Nick]

What they have revealed so far at the hotchips event was unlike anything else on the market, just the bizarre 4x8mb ESRAM is baffling techies, no one knows why they would divide it into four parts, but I'm expecting something interesting in the future.

[n4rc]

Its big to improve cooling...

It has a power brick for the same reason..

And I'll take removable batteries any day over non replaceable.

[blanket14]

You act like sony first party doesn't understand hardware and software where were you this gen when sony proved they can work with pretty much an impossible architecture and make greatness any ps3 exclusive out shines 360 exclusives. ... people seem to forget about ms doesn't deliver after the first 3 or 4 years down the road come one people wake up.

[Magicite]

yeah, they suck

[iamnsuperman]

Can we drop this. This is just getting stupid because the same counter arguments can be made against every new "secret sauce" or "hidden feature that no-one is allowed to know about yet rubbish". Look be happy with the system you want to buy without trying to justify it with specs related stuff. It may not be the most powerful system but the games make the system (something Microsoft has said since the E3 reveal which really is one of the big counter argument). This has to stop

[Volkama]

The writer of this article is grasping at straws.

[GodGinrai]

@Volkama

No..the writer of this article is grasping at hits! lol

[JohnRecon]

Agree, is not that the HW req for 1080p@60fps is uber new.
If they want the consoles to last at least 5 years, 1080p&60 should be a minimum.

[Holeran]

60% of the time the secret sauce works all the time.

[alb1899]

Lets play to wait and see, we have to wait just days to see what we want, so lets wait.

[jjb1981]

So many secrets this console has... I think we need to send XBOX One on Jerry Springer or Maury Povich..... XBOX One.... You are......................... Not the father!!!!

[Brix90]

Didn't all they do is increase the speed of the GPU and can't Sony do the same if it makes such a difference.

[1nsomniac]

*edit* Delete this, read it wrong...

[Funantic1]

If MS won an award for their accelerator in 2010 then that obviously is it. Why wouldn't they use it?

[ShwankyShpanky]

Fair enough. But it's accelerated GPU encoding, meaning it uses GPU resources. How does that compare to the PS4's dedicated encoding hardware?

[SliceOfTruth888]

Wait this article is not bashing Microsoft? DISAGREE!!! I will be lucky enough to own both consoles because well iam not 17 years old, which seems to be the avg age around this site. Even if i couldnt afford both consoles i wouldnt be acting so childish. The way the sony fanbase has acted has been so embarrassing its made me question if i even want to be a part of the culture anymore. From someone who just loves video games when i look at the PS4 i see a console with a ton to prove and they have done a good job. Their first party support is unmatched and out of the top 5 games i have played in the current generation i played them on PS3. I am very excited for what Sony has up their Sleeve.

The XBOX has online gaming cornered. Everyone can moan and groan about XBOX live but its a beast. And now that every single game will feature dedicated servers on Xbox one the service is unmatched. Sony can not compete with this right now which is why you are now going to be charged for online gameplay, because they know how behind they are. The only reason TitanFall is not on PS4 is because Microsoft can foot the bill for what they need online. And that is the Key to what next gen is for me. The Internet is what both of these companies are fighting for. You can sit there and say Sony has this and that, but how fast your online experience is going to be the deciding factor. The money these companies want lie on online and whoever can make you the most money post purchase is where development will follow, not whoever can produce the best graphics. In the end it doesnt matter for me because i will own both, but the fact sony fanboys are so blind and not worried is kind of sad

[JamieL]

Dude you can buy both. Can you?

[Regis]

I can buy both and I live with my mom in the basement and I'm a 40 year old virgin. I'm joking I'm 20 making $104 dollars a day. P.S I'm a pharmacy technician.

[JamieL]

LOL, I meant that as /s as I possibly could, it's just from the comments on this site you would think it was impossible to like both.

[Brix90]

Glad your buying both but Sony isn't charging for online because its trying to catchup in online service with Xbox. It's charging for online because the amount of money they spent on buying Gakai cloud service and are using the money they receive from online subscriptions to fund it. Xbox has been ahead in providing consumers with ways to connect socially then Sony but if you look at this gen a lot if not all Sony exclusives has dedicated servers. MS has been charging for XBL an its now getting dedicated servers after how many years don't get me wrong dedicated servers for online games is great. The fact that PS4 has added all these social features will make the community better make those who are switching platforms feel comfortable.

Cloud technology is something big this generation and MS has the most cloud servers out of any of it competitors but before you count PS4 out of the race in this base know that Sony has made a deal with Rackspace to help them with there cloud and I you don't know Rackspace is one of MS competitors in cloud technology. Anyway sorry guys didn't mean to ramble but I was just trying to a somewhat neutral oppinion.

@SliceofTruth888
This whole comment isnt directed at everything you said but to somewhat add to it from another perspective. Anyway hope you enjoy your purchases.

[mp1289]

You made good points.You make a good case for the importance of the internet, but it is not everything. Microsoft had this mentality before doing the 180.
The price, exclusives, and even graphics will always play a decisive roll in addition to the online support.

The pricepoint of the xbox one is more worrisome imo, $500 is a high starting price and could lead to a low install base which would then lead to low software sales which could then lead to less developer support. Kinect could be great, but its a gamble that prevented a $400 xbox one.

[PositiveEmotions]

"Microsoft has said that the power gap between the PS4 and the Xbox One isn’t noticeable"

Really? Because i noticed it right away.

[BattleTorn]

In comparing which game running on both consoles?

[PositiveEmotions]

They both look great but the ps4 has more details in graphics.

[extermin8or]

Deep Downs gameplay trailer and the footage yesterday at tgs is better than any game on the xbox one atm and deep down it seems is at least 10 months if not a year from seeing release... so....

[lifeisgamesok]

I think it'll be a combination of new AMD tech since the gpu will be custom along with processing units. The main Soc is nicknamed Oban

[Jeedai Infidel]

I'm older than fourteen, am I allowed to be on this site?

[GodGinrai]

LMAO! my fave post. ;)

[Regis]

Yes, yes you are able to be on this site. For being here we will elevate your status to Noob.

[Elit3Nick]

you win the internet ^^

[1nsomniac]

I thought Microsoft own guy came out earlier today or yesterday & debunked this himself?

[sync90]

PS4 is more powerful, but not in a huge way. the differences in multiplats will be minimal. its the exclusives where you'll really see ps4 shine.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

I honestly don't care at this point if the PS4 is "more" powerful.... good for Sony for making a good kit. I absolutely like what I see from the Xbox One and am perfectly fine with what its offering, secret sauce or not.

[ATi_Elite]

The HD7850 is SLIGHTLY more powerful than a HD7790 . Both are good GPU's and the difference is usually 5 to 15 fps difference (depending on the game).

The HD7790 does run cooler and uses less juice.

anyway The XB1 GPU accelerated ENCODING has NOTHING to do with Video Game Rendering.

Encoding is when your turning one video format into another like taking H.264 and encoding to DVD format or taking a broadband signal and encoding it to play on your TV like when a Digital Cable Box encodes a broadband signal to play on your Tv which the XB1 will do.

Yes having the GPU do it is really fast but most likely the CPU will be offloading this work tot he "Move engines" and NOT the GPU.

The GPU will be strictly for Games unless MS has a video editing program to offer then yeh Gpgpu encoding will happen.

[Volkama]

Indeed. It is quite possible MS have this tech in the box, but it's more likely to feature in the multimedia side of the console that everyone loves to hate. It isn't graphics secret sauce...

[windblowsagain]

xboxone does not have a 7790.lol.

It's has less tmu's and less compute units and no GDDR5.

[jjb1981]

The exclusives will show what each system can do. The developers have better sdks when they develop games that are exclusive. It showed this gen and will next gen... Wait a minute... GTA V is coming out in 6 days 8 hours and 55 mins... Who cares?!??!?!??!!!!

[porkChop]

Yes... because hardware acceleration is somehow a new concept/technology. It's not new and it's been around for years. It's not some secret weapon for the Xbox One.

"Power doesn’t always translate to performance. Let’s consider a race between high performance cars: say you have a car with 700 horsepower under the hood but the weight distribution causes the tires to lose traction and spin, a larger engine wouldn’t hold a candle to a car with 400 horsepower that’s been built with balance in mind."

Yeah that analogy works until you realize that computer hardware doesn't work the way cars do. Both consoles are based on the exact same architecture. The only different is that one console (the PS4) has between 30% to 50% more raw power. If the 2 consoles were based on different architectures, that raw power might not mean much.

But with them being based on the same architecture it means that the PS4 will run faster every single time. That's just how computer hardware works. The development tools/software can make a big difference, sure, but so far multiple developers have stated that Sony's tools are currently far superior to Microsoft's.

[tigertom53]

We should all know that story between AMD and Intel in Ghz. someways they are the same and someways they are quite different because of the in house customization of the CPU and GPU especially Microsoft. In a year i think will all have the answers, i really don't think their going to be much of a difference between the two graphically..

[worldwidegaming]

Indeed we shall see.
This is going to be one fun season.
Id wish people put some real cash and invest in these companies.
People,put up your savings if you think its a sure bet!

[Vip3r]

The 400hp Porsche is still gonna beat the 700hp chevy guys.

This just means an overclock or turbo mode of such which will kick up a lot of fan noise and make a lot of heat.

PS4 is still my choice.

[tigertom53]

I agree with the Porsche and Chevy, but disagree with the heat, all testers said X1 is the most quite console on the market and runs very cool..

[nosferatuzodd]

oh Microsoft i can tell youre a guy with no dignity you rather go kicking and screaming

[90Supra]

another one? smh...

just let the consoles drop and then compare the retail units side by side...

[Mithan]

You guys all sound like a bunch of fucking retards for the most part.

[Max-Zorin]

I see these Drakes are still arguing about specs.

[abusador]

Lol do the fanatics ever give up? This is getting embarrassing.

[Clarence]

When will this stop.

Notice the author says the PS3 had frame rate issues with cross platform games, not exclusive games.

[Belking]

We will find out on the 29 when the NDA expires.

[sAVAge_bEaST]

and that date can't come soon enough, so this nonsense can "officially" stop. I'm starting to feel sorry for you guys.

[MRMagoo123]

I think the fact that panello guy came out and said there was no dgpu would be enough but the MS fanatics dont even believe him lol they are really crazy ppl i tell you. The 29th will come and go and nothing will be different, except for one thing and that is another rumor will start saying they have some other secret that cant be discussed until launch then thats all we will hear till the release and nothing will come of that either.

[ziggurcat]

there is no NDA.

and MS wouldn't place a gag order on themselves - it's *their* hardware.

[isarai]

Another invisible force that supposed to magically improve the XB1 power that has yet to be seen or proven. I'll believe it when i see it, until then it's pure BS in my book

[jhoward585]

I want to know more about xbox one's move engine. How does it work?

The secret sauce BS is getting old.

[quenomamen]

For those keeping track:
XBONE

1. Cloud Power
2. DDR3 RAM actually better than DDR5 RAM
3. Possible Upgrade to 12 Gigs of RAM
4. You can just piggyback ESRAM to Main RAM and get PS4 destroying clock speed numbers
5. Secret 2nd GPU
7. CPU & GPU custom made ( PS4s are from parts bin )
8. Descret GPU acceleration
9. Turns out Xbone actually more powerfull than PS4 (on paper)

PS4:

1. These are out specs, deal with it
2. We also have a cloud based service
2. Our camera also has voice recognition

[kakashi81]

no hidden dGPU and PS4 can up 278GB while Xbone 68GB+ 204GB.

[ziggurcat]

1. cloud has been proven to just be dedicated servers, that do nothing to improve game performance
2. it's GDDR5, and it's better than DDR3 RAM
3. 12GB has long since been debunked. time to move on from that one
4. nope. main people have pointed out that you can't just add those two things together. and PS4 CPU clock speed hasn't been published yet
5. there is no 2nd GPU. penello killed that rumour yesterday
6. PS4 is not off-the-shelf parts, it is heavily customized.
7. again, no.
8. no, PS4 is still more powerful on paper.

[MyNameIsNotRick]

Just wait. This is what happened last gen. The sony only crowd got themselves whipped up over "the power of the cell" and when the games started coming out and there was little difference between the two versions it was everybody else's fault (lazy developers, MS paid everybody off etc).

also...If MS's "secret" bs is getting old, what about the PS. They haven't even given a final processor speed. It may be faster or slower that ms. I find it odd that they haven't released a final processor speed. At least MS has done that.

[xKugo]

Yay!! You have a clock speed at 1.75 ghz compared to 1.6. Do you even know how that benefits the console or are you just talking out of your ass? Despite what you might think, a 9% increase in CPU power will not make up for a 50% difference in CU count or a 50% difference in render output pipelines that the PS4 has over the Xbone. Add that to the fact, that Xbox One is filled with bottlenecks such as the move engines, 15 core processors, it's main ram (DDR3) only moving data through less pipelines at 68 gb/s and most of it's bandwidth is attained from 32 mb STATIC RAM!! I'm going to even explain to you how much of a bottleneck that is in itself, because I already know you wouldn't comprehend it. I don't care how hard you Xbox fans scream, you are not going to attain some kind of magic sauce that makes you console the best shit ever. You have the weaker console, dude. #Dealwithit

[thexmanone]

But better games

[2paclives]

Ps4: no need for secret sauce, hidden chips, powerful cloudz....just straight up badass gaming console! Can't wait for 12:00am nov 15th!,

[Loki86]

NDA expires on the 29th, nobody knows anything until then including the supposed "engineers" at neogaf. Embarrassing that everyone on the Internet acts like they know everything, but somebody like Panello asks a designer and engineer who worked on the console and they just call him a liar and trying to build positive PR. Gaf at times is completely clueless and that gang of Sony suckers really just needs to stay unbiased till they have the facts, it is truly embarrassing the downward turn that community has taken.

[xKugo]

Can you please show me proof of an NDA agreement involving AMD and Microsoft. I hear a lot about this NDA but I have never seen proof that it actually even exist. Could you provide that link please?

[JunioRS101]

Hello, information tech here.

"GPU acceleration" doesn't exist.

1) It would make the console hotter
2) It would make the console louder
3) Both consoles are designed for a specific temperature and power consumption. They will not 'boost', they might 'fluctuate' between rested and strained, but they will not surpass their intended outputs
4) They run the GPU at it's highest acceptable output at all times to maximize performance (obviously)

There is no way to magically boost your GPU like nitrous in an automobile.

[Loki86]

Multiplane overlay and tile resources both improve performance while reducing load and it was recently announced as a key feature of Direct X 11.2.

So information tech, I don't think so.

[JunioRS101]

That's only relevant to 3D rendering, requires very high bandwidth video memory (much higher than the X1's memory bandwidth, such as 2GB GDDR5 high end pc cards), and has nothing to do with accelerating the GPU.

That has to do with software not hardware. I'm not saying there aren't tricks to optimize game code, I'm saying there is no secret trick akin to "accelerating a gpu".

That was a damn good try though.

[Loki86]

Wrong, tile resources actually shares throughput from the system RAM to help lower level GPUs perform at a quicker level. This was originally designed for tablets and smartphones, but can also be supplied to newer GPUs to increase performance as long as it is using a SoC or unified memory.

[xKugo]

I really don't know what to say here. I mean this could be true, but I mean if it was a possibility then why is it just now being mentioned now that the dGPU rumor has been debunked? Seems incredibly convenient, doesn't it? Where was this information beforehand? I'm not disparaging the rumor, because out of all of them this is the most plausible. Yet, I can't help but see this as yet another attempt by Xbox fanatics to make the Xbox One more powerful than it is. Is it not possible that the PS4 is simply more powerful and that's all there is to it? No Sony fans were complaining when it was revealed that the PS3 had a much weaker GPU than the Xbox 360. We accepted it and moved on, we didn't create rumors or magic "secret sauce". We took the facts as they were and left it as that. I know I certainly did and it never stopped from enjoying the heck out of my PS3.

If this is true then fine, great for Xbox fans but if it's not can we please just let the system be? I'm tired of debating this random bullshit every other week. This type of information only serves to create ill advised hope in Xbox fans. I said the same thing with the dGPU rumor and I'll say it here, yet again. If you get your hopes for this rumor, you are only setting yourself up for disappointment. The fall back to earth is going to be rough.

[redaxis]

"After all, the PS3 showed higher performance numbers in the GPU but managed a worse frame rate on a number of cross-platform titles."

This alone shows how much the writer knows about facts.

CPU gone, ram lost, now they can only put the hopes on GPU? They will say XB1's secret weapon lays in the power brick and PS4 doesn't have one.

[Izzy408]

Like you know anymore about the X1 hardware than the writer does... please.

[redaxis]

stating PS3's GPU shows higher performance than the X360 yet still having inferior multiplats is plain wrong. the X360 has more capable GPU with 48 pipelines unified shaders and the eDRAM that's why multiplats are often better on the 360. If it wasn't the cell helping out the RSX in graphics department PS3 would have hard time matching X360's graphics.

concluding the article with a wrong fact put its credibility in question.

[Izzy408]

I said "X1 HARDWARE" not xbox 360 hardware.

[Izzy408]

At least MS has the balls to come out and shut down rumors unlike the Sony. They let their fanboys believe the PS4 had at least 7gb RAM for gaming. And til this day they haven't come out to clear everything about their hardware. But it's ONLY MS who we can't trust, right?

[AceofStaves]

These threads crack me up. There's no point in arguing about specs. For casual gaming consumers, price is a far more influential factor. People who just play one or two games a year can get a bad case of 'sticker shock' if consoles carry a high price tag. It happened with PS3 at the beginning of this gen. It didn't matter that it sported the Cell processor. It didn't matter that it came with a Blu-Rat drive at a time when standalone Blu-Ray players were around $1,000. It was $599, and for many people, it was hard to justify spending close to $600 for a video game machine.

XB1 finds itself in a similar predicament this time around. Anyone who thinks that gamers are going to flock en masse to pick up a console at $499, when a cheaper option that will play the big multiplats like CoD exists, is fooling themselves. Brand loyalty is much stronger amongst the hardcore gamers than our more casual counterparts. They tend to just want something to play games on that's isn't too expensive and their kids will enjoy. The Wii's phenomenal success is a great example of that.

Do I think XB1 will bomb? No, especially in the U.S. But times have clearly changed. This isn't the same situation as last gen. PS4 has the price advantage, and it lacks the PS3's esoteric architecture that made programming for it such a challenge for third-party devs. Sony is clearly going into the start of this gen in the much stronger position.

[TABSF]

Sorry you cant say a HD 7850 is equal to a HD 7700

[OldGirl]

Is this a joke.. Again with this secret weapon crap, not even day after the other rumor was shot down, now another wild rumor appears..

This is just pathetic. If Microsoft's system was more powerful, they would have straight up said so by now but they haven't. You know why, because even they know they can't make such a claim when it isn't true.

Technically if someone wanted to sue them for saying their system is more powerful when it turns out not to be, they could. Sony has straight up said theirs is, as if the hardware doesn't speak for itself but that doesn't stop anyone.

If Microsoft had a more powerful system, they would have no problem just simply saying that but instead all we get are these secret rumors that never end up being true and not once have you actually heard Microsoft say there system is the more powerful one.

[sAVAge_bEaST]

"Mark Cerny, the lead system architect for the PlayStation 4 has pointed out what he believes to be an under-appreciated aspect of Sony’s new console. That it is “the world’s most powerful games console.”

[boneso82]

Even Microsoft are saying that the PS4 is more powerful, just not much more, why are people still arguing about this? Better GPU, Higher Bandwidth, GDDR5 etc etc, it doesn't matter, none of it does!

The only thing that matters that will make the big difference between the two consoles, that everyone all of a sudden has forgotten about, that will win the next-gen console war is "THE UNLIMITED POWER OF THE CL... Oh, wait...