890°

Indie Developer Jon Olick Backtracks on Incendiary Tweets About Sony’s IP Policies for the PS4

Recently indie developer Jon Olick kicked up a fuse on Twitter about alleged policies Sony had in their contract agreements regarding any independent games the first party company supports, which according to Olick stated that Sony would gain ownership of IPs published on PS4. Today he has updated his Twitter account with a series tweets that rectifies what he had claimed previously.

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dualshockers.com
XboxFun3936d ago

This is why people in the industry (or in life) need to keep their mouths shut. Tweeting on the spot experiences have gotten so many people in trouble it is not even funny.

iamnsuperman3936d ago (Edited 3936d ago )

I agree but I see it as natural selection. Weaning out those people. The guy just made a fool out of himself

NewMonday3936d ago (Edited 3936d ago )

it is very simple, if Indy devs fund it they own it and the platform is available for them to self publish and set the price, date, patch, advertise, Sony only owns it if they fund the game themselves.

so if an Indy dev wants to keep the rights totally he should fund the game independently, like using Kicksatrer, Project Phoenix just recently did this and will be on almost every platform.

the mix up is about the development tools..

"Originally Posted by famousmortimer

Much ado about nothing..Back in the day id used to license their engine for free or very cheap. Their policy was that you could edit it in any way that you want but whatever improvements you came up with id owned and could use on future versions of the engine. This was in place when half life was made..The wording in this sounds similar. What i read is that if you "invent" something in terms of development on a ps4 dev kit that Sony can then incorporate it into their dev kit. I would be shocked if that wasn't true of Microsoft and nintendo also (or the unreal engine for that matter) . I don't believe this has anything to do with controlling IPs. "

and..

"Originally Posted by GoldenHelmet

Seriously?

We're making GAMES for PS4 and not one has a clause about ownership transferring to SCEA OR SCEE.

This is NOT the case, the only thing that IS owned by Sony, which is the same as Microsoft and Nintendo are the SDK' and the hardware, which is why most companies GIVE it away, so developers aren't paying for something they NEVER own."

JC_Denton3936d ago (Edited 3936d ago )

@newmonday

If only people helped Shadow of the Eternals as much. . . 8 days from ending the Kick Starter and only 34% of the way there.

NewMonday3936d ago (Edited 3936d ago )

@JC_Denton

Kicksatrer is dependent on reputation, for SotE the devs have a very bad one, I loved Eternal Darkness but don't trust DennisD, I would rather they have a publisher with experience pushing them.

DigitalRaptor3936d ago (Edited 3936d ago )

@ newmonday

You don't trust the guy to make a great video game, or you don't trust him for his disgusting choices in pornography?

It's a shame so many people's personal feelings about Dyak are getting in the way of a talented and passionate team to make a sequel to a fantastic game that won't see a successor any other way.

I think you're right though, at this stage it would be more favourable for a publisher to snap this up. Looks great.

ohiostatesman3935d ago

Sony reveals to the world who they really are. A snake in disguise. Don't get fooled guys. Sony is the same company that charges 100 dollars for a 32gb memory card.

TheoreticalParticle3935d ago (Edited 3935d ago )

digitalraptor:

"You don't trust the guy to make a great video game, or you don't trust him for his disgusting choices in pornography?"

100% the first part. I don't even know what you're referring to in the 2nd.

But after him yammering on for years about how Too Human was his dream game, it's like, dude... I don't ever need to support anyone who dreams of making games that are THAT awful.

Then, instead of realizing that his vision was poorly executed he starts whining and trying to sue Epic because their engine is too crappy for him to make good games, a problem that manages to stumble nobody else at any level from indie to AAA.

Get lost, Dyack.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 3935d ago
Abriael3936d ago (Edited 3936d ago )

Or at least get legal advice from decent professionals instead of wannabes.

Edit: lol at the disagree. Someone thinks one should get legal advice from his aunt so that he can properly rage at sony over a misconception.

MWong3936d ago

Agreed seek competent and soundly legal advise. Sucks he had to find out the hard way though.

Abriael3936d ago

@MWong: coukd have been worse. He could have started some legal action on the advice from that dude. He just got shamed on the internets. Burns, but it's no big damage.

HammockGames3936d ago (Edited 3936d ago )

^ Agreed fellas

This type of scenario strikes me as a form of professional Darwinism.

Attrition of cretinism through social media.

SchwoererBear3935d ago

When you're in trouble you, "Better call Saul". Idk if you watch Breaking Bad but that just came up in my head...

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ZHZ903936d ago

He shouldn't dare write about this on twitter or he's in big trouble.

die_fiend3935d ago

I know...how do people not yet realise that you shouldn't publish things like this on a social network. You can't just slander people and because it's on your Twitter account, expect to be exempt from the law.

For some-one who must be tech-savvy as a game developer, you really need to engage your brain and think 'Should I publicly slate a private contract I have, to the world'. If he even needs a lawyer to indicate that's not a great idea then he deserves to be panned. And is he moaning about a paralegal giving him bad advice? That's almost slander again

majiebeast3936d ago (Edited 3936d ago )

I think they should have special how not to ruin your carreer on twitter courses for any company employee.

I loved it when other indie devs said he was wrong his reply was, bubububut my Harvard lawyer said.

Abriael3936d ago

Haha i doubt he ruined his career. Mostly his ego

majiebeast3936d ago

Yeah but i mean in general. Also he decided to hand out non existant dirty laundry of a future business partner thats just stupid.

Anon19743936d ago

What's odd to me is how he thought Sony would gain ownership of the IP's in the first place. I've read these contracts. I didn't see anything that would lead me to believe this was the case. In fact, there's a whole section on Acknowledgment of Company’s Ownership Rights that outlines that your company still retains all rights to their products.

So what gave him that idea in the first place, I wonder?

Abriael3936d ago

Even more so, if that was even remotely true how did he not think someone would have raised a storm MUCH before him?

DemiImp3936d ago (Edited 3936d ago )

There was no Acknowledgement of Company's Ownership Rights section.

The contract said:

"All Next Gen Materials, all inventions and developments that utilize or incorporate Next Gen Materials and any derivatives of Next Gen materials are the sole property of SCEA"

Next Gen Materials means the PS4, any software Sony gives him related to the PS4, and any other info Sony give him related to the PS4.

So, unless he doesn't utilize the PS4, any software related to it, or any info about it when making his game...

Kurylo3d3936d ago

Well the problem is next gen could even specify next gen artwork, next gen game engines.. next gen anything... Its all in the eye of the beholder. i dont think sony was clear enough.

Anon19743936d ago

If you develop something using Sony's SDK, they still retain ownership of what they provided to you. Next Gen materials is materials provided to the company from Sony, not the other way around. This doesn't have anything to do with the ownership of your own IP's.

Ownership Rights is in another agreement which they probably would have signed dealing with ownership of IP's. The company still owns all rights to art, source code, music, etc but excludes intellectual property provided to the company by Sony.

Personally, I think a great way to nullify a Confidentiality and Non-disclosure agreement is to go onto twitter and leak details of an agreement that is meant to be confidential.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 3936d ago
yeahokchief3936d ago (Edited 3936d ago )

Sooner or later it'll just bite them in the butt. If they are going to have one, it should be managed by a third party.

I don't have time to listen to what they're thinking about anyways. Too... Many... Games...

3-4-53935d ago

Twitter needs an app where it won't actually post what you've typed for 24 hours. That way you get time to delete what you might not want people to read or what you may not even believe yourself anymore once you've calmed down.

I still think Twitter is stupid, but I see it's purpose.

3-4-53935d ago

Moral of the Story:

Think before you talk/type ?

joefrost003935d ago

Didnt sound like he was wrong
Sound more like he didnt know what he was getting into
I can believe that
But anything even implying sony might be a tad bit greedy or unfair is just
Blasphemy on this site

CEOSteveBallmer3933d ago

coming from a pro xbox dude. just saw the comment you made when im reading the other articles and now i saw you again here. heres a quote "Ryse looks better than what the PS4 can offer" a bold statement bro. maybe you didn't look closely at infamous and killzone's environment. and if we are talking about graphics only. The dark sorcerer is the best in visuals. yes its not a game but its running in real time on PS4. and not to mention the order 1888. naughty dog and santa monica haven't even shown what their games are. MS showing "almost" all their big guns already

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 3933d ago
fOrlOnhOpe573936d ago

The worlds gone 180 batsh*t crazy !

yewles13936d ago

Well that idiot screwing over Mr. Olick just gave para legals a bad name...

Kenshin_BATT0USAI3936d ago

Because society knows and respects Olick's opinion?

Trust me, this changes nothing for para legals. LOL

JunioRS1013936d ago

Idk what Olick was trying to say, but I seriously doubt Sony just takes ownership of every game on its platform lol

Clearly he misunderstood part of the contract.

DemiImp3936d ago (Edited 3936d ago )

No, that's what the contract said. It's quite clear when you look at it.

"All Next Gen Materials, all inventions and developments that utilize or incorporate Next Gen Materials and any derivatives of Next Gen materials are the sole property of SCEA"

Next Gen Materials means the PS4, any software Sony gives him related to the PS4, and any other info Sony give him related to the PS4.

So, unless he doesn't utilize the PS4, any software related to it, or any info about it when making his game...

porkChop3936d ago

It just has to do with Sony's SDK and development tools. If you update/modify the tools Sony has the right to use those modifications in the future as the tools belong to them. This has nothing to do with games or IP at all. The guy completely misunderstood what it was saying and made an ass out of himself.

corvusmd3936d ago

Uh, so if you don't utilize or incorporate PS materials...how exactly do you get it on the system? Assuming you can publish it without using any PS Material....do you just throw it out there and hope that it works bug free? Sony is anything but indie friendly, but it's amazing how many fanboys are fighting tooth and nail for PS...if this was MS they'd be on the other side just as aggressively....the favoritism is more ridiculous than ever.

Silly gameAr3936d ago

@corvusmd

I really wish people would give that "poor MS gets ripped unfairly on N4G" crap a rest. Some people actually do give them credit when it's due. This is about an indy dev ranting about something he misunderstood on Twitter anyway. This has nothing to do with poor ol' Microsoft.

dennett3163935d ago

@corvusmd, what on Earth are you talking about? Why are you still talking about something you don't understand, and using that inaccuracy as a basis to stir up a console war conversation?
How can you say that Sony are not indie friendly considering their free rental of dev kits to small indie game makers in an effort to help them get projects off the ground? How can you claim they're not indie friendly when they were allowing self publishing on their network at a time when Microsoft were not? And indeed, it still took a fair amount of negative coverage before MS reversed that dumb policy.
How can you say they're not indie friendly when they prominently featured several indie devs (and their games) on stage at E3?

The guy who made these posts was wrong, as were the idiots giving him advice. It's been clearly set out numerous times on various comments here exactly why he now acknowledges he was wrong....and yet you're still trying to argue a nonsensical position? Why?

rainslacker3935d ago

I think you, as well as some others, are looking at materials in too narrow a way. Materials, in reference to Sony's SDK, which this clause is applicable too, could be anything provided by Sony in their dev kit in order for someone to make their game. Typically software API's, source code, general default features, etc.

So, knowing this lets take an example of something that someone could put in there, that would now belong to Sony.

Sony, in it's dev kit has a set of API's that function to display/interface the save game features for a game. If a developer decides they want their own custom save game screen functionality, they go in, using the original save game API's as a basis(would likely have to for system access), and customizes it to make it more efficient, or to perform additional tasks...like say create a special database entry, or upload that save automatically, contact leader boards, or whatever.

Under this clause, that new custom save interface implementation is now the property of Sony since it was built on top of Sony's original API. They have rights to redistribute it on a future release.

This is in no way connected to any additional material used to actually create the save game screen. Any artwork, or possibly UI interface that is completely designed or made to make this screen without using the Sony SDK is still the property of the developer.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 3935d ago
BABY-JEDI3936d ago

It's the curse of the tweet!
Beware you tweeters out there!

T23936d ago

Im not sure whats more sad - that people feel the need to tweet whenever they take a piss or that people actually care and read it

iceman063936d ago

I'm gonna say...umm...YES!

BABY-JEDI3936d ago

Some people REALLY need to let the world know LoL

Abriael3936d ago

You seem to have cared enough to read AND comment :D

Show all comments (71)
150°

Sony CEO says although AI "has been used for creation," it's "not a substitute for human creativity"

"AI is not a substitute for human creativity. We position it as a technology that supports creativity. Creativity resides in people. We will continue to contribute to people's creativity through technology," the CEO said.

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gamesradar.com
1nsomniac2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

...not yet but 100% within the next 10 years!

..Then Sony will use it like the drop of a hat. They're no different to the others.

isarai1d 22h ago (Edited 1d 22h ago )

They used to be 😞 sure it was always a business, and money's always the priority, but they used to have a very strong stance on supporting artists and creativity. "Dont f#@k with the artist" was a phrase they touted a few times back in the ps1-ps3 era, a philosophy carried over from their music branch PlayStation was created from. It's not COMPLETELY gone, but it's barely there compared to what it was back then, i just want them to return to that.

Eonjay1d 3h ago (Edited 1d 3h ago )

I am highly encouraged by their statement about human creativity. "Dont f#@k with the artist" is exactly what they are saying. But at the same time, I don't think people understand that Sony is a corporation. If they don't realize growth, they don't get to exist. When you say 'Sony', you are talking about a bunch of investors. To speak about them any other way is a illogical and incorrect. They haven't changed. They have been a group of investors since they became a public business.

isarai1d 15h ago

Ugh, i really wish people would stop gambling people's livelihoods by turning a project/game into their political soapbox. Im all for statements and having your own opinion, but there's more people working on this than just druckman, ham fisting your political beliefs onto just seems inconsiderate for everyone elses job security when it can result in a failure due to people avoiding it for that reason.

I play games for escape, im so tired of nearly every AAA game blatantly dragging real world issues to shove in my face when I'm trying to take a break from it all. They don't even bother to be subtle about it, quite the opposite, it's blasted and force fed to you and it's just getting exhausting

Einhander19721d 5h ago

People are taking a whole interview and cutting it down to clips that make him look bad and take what he actually was saying out of context. For example he also said things like this AI has "ethical issues we need to address"

-Foxtrot1d 5h ago

@Einhander

Why defend him at this point?

It’s not taking things out of context, he said what he said.

Old ND would never talk about soulless AI taking over so many creative things they are well known for. The whole “ethical issues” is just a good PR spin people who push this crap fall back on to make their statements not seem as bad. So many AI lovers do this.

AI has no place is so many creative based things.

Einhander19721d 6h ago

Well yeah, because everyone else is using it so they need to stay competitive. It's the same as paid online, they didn't want to go that route but their competition was making so much money they needed to add paid online just to keep up.

RaiderNation1d 3h ago (Edited 1d 3h ago )

AI will never replace humans in game development in terms of conceptualizing new games. Humans still need to come up with the ideas and what they want to implement. However much of the day to day menial coding could be AI driven to reduce production time and team size. I could also see AI being used for bug testing/optimization that could lead to better quality games at launch. I'm actually very optimistic about how AI can positively impact game development.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1d 3h ago
XiNatsuDragnel1d 23h ago

Good statement but hopefully this holds up

NotoriousWhiz1d 4h ago

People that aren't software developers just don't understand the benefits of AI. People who's only exposure to A.I is the Terminator movie and other related sci fi films won't understand the benefits it provides.

It's not about replacing human labor. It's about making human labor easier.

Many years ago, I had laser eye surgery done. It was performed by a robot. The doctor took my measurements and calibrated the machine to make sure it would do what needed be done. And then the robot corrected my vision in 10 seconds.

15 years later and I still have 20/20 vision.

Eonjay1d 3h ago

AI in and of itself is not a 'bad'. Money is bad. Money is evil, and corporations will do whatever they can to get more of it. They will find ways to implement AI to replace as may jobs as possible. This isn't even up for debate. It is the charge of the corporation to maximize returns for the investors. They have no choice. I'm a developer and I know that my job will absolutely be replaced. Therefore, I have decided to become an AI dev. AI has a lot of potential to help us solve problem on a scale most can't even imagine. The issue, as ever is that our monetary system only ever allows us to focus on greed and fiscal growth.

But I am a pragmatist. Perhaps an AI model can be built to help protect us from our most dangerous instincts and habits. And perhaps Congress can pass laws to protect us from people who would use AI to manipulate and control us (spoiler: they wont).

RaiderNation14h ago(Edited 14h ago)

Progress is inevitable. Nobody driving cars today is complaining that the horse and buggy is no longer around. Yes, some jobs will be lost but guess what? With innovation comes new job opportunities. It's how the cycle of the job market works.

150°

Sony Patents To Prevent You From In-Game Harassment By Reading Your Emotions

A new patent recently published by Sony wants to gather biometric data of gamers to track whether one is being harassed using AI tools.

Profchaos30d ago (Edited 30d ago )

I hope this is one of those patents that never comes to fruition.

I already dislike the fact you can pay a significant amount for a online service buy associated games and content on said service and get banned from that service over potentially a misunderstanding the bans are already handed out for flimsy reasons

I'd rather see money invested in a ban that simply removes the offensive players ability to communicate with unknown players allow them to continue party chats with friends but not with Joe blow on cod.

exputers30d ago

Agreed. Blizzard recently banned a college Overwatch 2 player who's dependent for saying "shit." Pretty harsh.

Profchaos29d ago (Edited 29d ago )

How rediculas really. You can't say a word that's allowed in most PG films and prime time TV but the game is based around killing the enemy team using guns, explosives etc.

It's just backwards.

just_looken29d ago

What your talking about is called block list

In 2006 a spaceship dropped of the playstation 3/xbox 360 i say that that generation was the last great gen with game functions/tech that has yet to comeback

Anyhow the playstation 3 if you block listed a id they could not talk to you in chatroom with either text or voice. But that was pre mind fucked 2018 when people were more human than sheep.

But hey gta 6 is coming out billion dollar budget without a single player custom character creator and without singeplayer coop off/online something saints row 1-3 had on the xbox 360.

z2g30d ago

Take my social security and bank account numbers too! Here’s a picture of my wife and our address.

phoenixwing30d ago

Cmon where's the pictures of your children. Don't hold out on them.

H930d ago

At this rate I feel Sony will eventually sell a room to play games in it where they can monitor your every breath

jambola29d ago

I genuinely get a bit worried sometimes when a friend says something that could be offensive In a party
Because I have no trouble believing some bans would happen when in a private party for saying something wrong

SegaSaturn66930d ago

I want them to censor erotic content by measuring my groin temperature so i dont get too distracted while playing black ops 2.

Popsicle30d ago

Terrible idea. Not only do I not consent to providing my biometric data, the potential for mishandling biometric data is almost a certainty. Positive stress and negative stress can produce similar changes in biometrics. Interpreting the precise emotion a person is feeling is not only invasive but could be easily misconstrued. I hope this never comes to fruition.

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130°

Sony Could Increase Your Game's Difficulty If It Sees You Complain About It

Sony has recently published a new patent that wants to dynamically handle the games' difficulty and gameplay based on the player's emotions.

jznrpg30d ago

This is something I might use. Sometimes I play some good games but they don’t have difficulty option and are a little too easy.

Profchaos30d ago

Souls games will be like that players struggling make it harder

PassNextquestion30d ago (Edited 30d ago )

I think if used correctly it could work well

jambola30d ago

cool idea
cool idea for horror games especially
the way it's explained here sounds like it could never be forced hopefully, so that's ok with me

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