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Cliff Bleszinski On Always-Online: "Deal With It"

Veteran games developer Cliff Bleszinski reacts to the recent firing of Microsoft employee Adam Orth over comments he made concerning the next Xbox being always connected.

According to Bleszinski, the future is inevitable, and we should simply, "deal with it".

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Snookies124041d ago

Why is it that every time that guy talks, I get annoyed? I used to love the dude back in the day, even played him in UT2K4 once. Now he just comes off as full of himself. :\

Gazondaily4041d ago

You played him in UT2k4 once? Do tell!

I don't know, I like the guy. He's always frank about what he thinks and I respect him for his achievements. But most of all, I agree with a lot of what he says.

I disagree with the fervour in which he supports always-online however but agree regarding his points about early adopters most likely being always online anyway.

He's a nice chap. Its just the internet that makes him come off as obnoxious to some (or many, I don't know).

Snookies124041d ago (Edited 4041d ago )

Yeah, I versed him a LONG time ago, so honestly I don't remember a whole lot of details on it other than the fact that we were playing on the Facing Worlds map. He was really freaking good though. I mean, I played that game religiously, and I got owned lol. (Got a few kills in though, which made me happy.)

Anyway, I do suppose the internet plays a part in making him sound bad, and I know he's not a bad dude in general. I just think he should tone it down a little in some cases. Don't want him being one of those guys that are always referred to in a negative light, (Pachter, Molyneux, etc.) types. (No offense to them either, just pointing out that they're usually perceived in a bad light.)

Gazondaily4041d ago

@Snookies12

Ha that's crazy. You lucky guy. I once played the former Quake 3 world champion in his peak; man it was brutal. His skills were crazy but he did play 10x more than me and did say that I should go pro. I will always remember that :D (I did a crazy rocket jump+railgun combo and his jaw dropped haha).

Yeah I agree that he might have to tone it down, especially in this case. Always on is a very controlversial topic and he does seem to railroad the issue with his opinion. Unlike Patcher and to a lesser extent, Molyneux, he does have legs to stand on I guess.

Also, its nice to meet someone who has played a PROPER hardcore MP FPS :D

sam1mur4041d ago

You can really notice the derogation of this site with the fact that your completely reasonable comment has 16 disagrees...

You agree with the reality of DRM. Which is the truth. If anyone is shelling out $600 for a console on launch day, they are going to play it online. People aren't discontinuing their internet connection to afford a brand new system, and people who do not have internet are not going to buy a brand new console on launch day.

Also, a true but harsh reality is, people really don't care about single player games anymore. People barely even play the campaigns for most games. Those who actually enjoy the single player experience, myself included, are in the minority. Most of Microsoft's clientele is already always online whenever they use their console. It's s rational conclusion for Microsoft to allow DRM, losing a few customers, yet avoiding pirated games.

In the end of the day those who actually care about single player are slim, and those who actually care about drm are in the few. A majority of people who buy video games are not the fanatics and fanboys on gamer websites. A majority of people buying systems are the general public. And most of the general public don't know about DRM, or really don't care. Xbox fans are still going to get the '720'.

Finally, people need to recognize that these are BUSINESSES we are talking about. Microsoft nor Sony have any concern for their clientele besides the fact that if they are content the companies stay afloat. No company is going to give up a business model that fits them just to appease some whining fanboys on a website. Gamers have to recognize they are entitled to nothing when it comes to company decisions.

Microsoft picked DRM because most of their clientele are already always online, and the few who leave the console due to this are balanced by the lack of pirated games.

Sony picked no DRM because they're focus has never been online, and Sony has a much larger single player base. Also, it helps them to get the few microsoft customers that leave the console.

These are all rational business decisions. Everyone has to stop acting like the Emperor is running Microsoft and Sony is run by Mama Teresa.

Can't wait to be down-voted to hell for writing the truth :p.

fr0sty4041d ago

Why MS doesn't just do what Sony did when people were going nuts about that used game prevention patent for PS4, and say "Our console will support offline play/used games.", is beyond me. They're letting all this negative hype spin up, not only from internal sources but now from the developer community as well. This is only hurting them, and they're sitting around doing nothing as if it were true.

Highlife4041d ago

I say take it a step further and not allow people to play online games if there internet is freaking slow.

Ilovetheps54041d ago

Sam1mur, here is the issue with your statement. There are somewhere around 75 million 360s that have been sold so far. That number might be off a little, but it's close enough. Well, there are about 45 million gold subscribers. Again, that number might be off a little bit. Well, that means about 60% of 360 owners are actually using the online features of the 360. If they were to make the next xbox online only, they would basically be abandoning around 40% of their userbase. That just doesn't sound good to me. I highly doubt it would sound good to Microsoft.

Honestly, I would be shocked if Microsoft made the next Xbox online only. I just cannot see them doing it. I see all these rumors running around, but I just can't see it being feasible for a company to make that decision.

And also, there are a lot more people than you think that want a single player experience over a multiplayer experience. Majority of my friends don't even touch the online components of games. They just want a great single player game with a great storyline.

sam1mur4041d ago (Edited 4041d ago )

To Ilovetheps4:

If the case is in fact that 75 million xboxes were sold, and 45 million are online, then that pretty much supports my point.

Its been 8 years since the xbox 360 came out. Since then, millions of xboxes have been broken, thrown in the closet, or exchanged to gamestops.

Add up every single broken xbox, every single used xbox in a gamestop, and every single xbox that is merely not being operated, and subtract that from the 75 million. I would personally bet that that number comes to atleast 10 million.

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain that the 75 million number counts new consoles that have been yet to be sold from stores. And there's millions of new xboxes out there.

So, Microsoft has at least 2/3drds of its clientele online, 8 YEARS after the console launched. That's a big deal. 8 years is a long time, and alot of people stopped caring about even playing xbox. 75 million sold, does not equate to 75 million being played...

Finally, about you're single player comment, I can guarantee I am not wrong. Do you consider yourself and your friend group 'gamers'? If so, the single player drive makes sense. But if not, then your friend group is surely in the minority. I unfortunately am one of few 'gamers' in my friend group, and none of them care about single player. Also, besides personal experience, it is pretty much a general consensus that single player is dying, it is not just my opinion.

sikbeta4041d ago

@Snookies12?

I don't know why you get annoyed, but maybe we should respect the opinion of the guy who created one of the most successful Third Party Games from current gen, I mean, he's not a rookie and maybe knows what the future of gaming will be...

;)

Ilovetheps54041d ago

Sam, let's look at one of the highest rated games so far this year and one of the top selling games so far this year, Bioshock Infinite. That game has no multiplayer yet it had tons of hype and sold decently. Another game that got tons of sales is Tomb Raider. If you tell me that people bought the game for the multiplayer, you are wrong. The multiplayer was sub-par. They bought it for the campaign.

Now, I'm not sure where you live, but I live in an area where the internet is not great. We have few options. I chose the best internet around here yet the internet is constantly going out. Right now, I don't care because I play single player games. But, if internet was required to play a single player game, I can no longer play that game. Why should internet affect my solo gaming?

Again, I'd be shocked if Microsoft went down this road.

crxss4041d ago

sorry cliffyb but I completely disagree. "Always online" might come out once, twice, or heaven forbid more times, but each time it won't take off. I can't even imagine being unable to play a single player game, a movie, or listen to music without an Internet connection. I am baffled by anyone who thinks this is a good thing

Dee_914041d ago (Edited 4041d ago )

@ sam1mur Thanks for talking for millions of people you dont even know.I now have insight on reality /S.You should prob know that by jan 2010 360 had 39million units sold worldwide and of those units only 20million had Live.If you cant do math that 19 MILLION people without LIVE at the time.
http://www.joystiq.com/2010...
Even with free online on the PS3 theres a chance people dont even have PSNs yet.I personally know a handful.I know alot more people without Live.Microsoft wont be loosing a "few" costumers.They will loose alot more whilst loosing alot more money than they would off those pirated games.Theres absolutely nothing rational about having an always on console.Yea its rational when your eyeballs are made of green dollar signs.

OT
Wow... Il just quote a few things here.
" Sim City, with all of its’ troubles on launch, seems to be selling briskly. Diablo 3, the poster child of a messy launch, is estimated to be at 12 million units"

Okay so judging from sells this means always on DRM is okay?How many of those Sims city sells are from people who couldnt get a refund after they found out exactly what DRM is? How many of the people who bought these will buy another game with DRM now that they know what DRM is?
Point being,you cant judge rather a feature this new is a success or not.It will take time and a decrease or increase in sells over time will be a TRUE indication.

" My Ipad is always connected because I love browsing Reddit, Twitter, and Facebook"

Do your ipad require internet to work?No? So is there any rational reason your comparing your Ipad to a device that REQUIRES always on.
As a matter of fact I dont know ANY device that require an internet to work... besides Magic Jack & Vonage.

Once again I see no point in having a device that requires internet to work.

However theres a little glimmer of light with this latest rumor.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
Hopefully its not just a rumor.

@sam1mur
"Add up every single broken xbox, every single used xbox in a gamestop, and every single xbox that is merely not being operated, and subtract that from the 75 million. I would personally bet that that number comes to atleast 10 million. "

Okay so not only are we talking for millions of people we are just pulling numbers from out of thin air,LOL

"it is pretty much a general consensus that single player is dying, it is not just my opinion."

Its not general consensus.Its an opinion that a few people and have stated publicly.Doesnt make it a true statement.

sam1mur4041d ago (Edited 4041d ago )

Bioshock and Tomb Raider have big followings. Sure single player is dying, but its not like people are giving up allegiances to old franchises.

Who are you to say they aren't bought for multiplayer? I know a few people that bought GoW3 for multiplayer, and that was pretty raunchy.

Tomb Raider, God of War 3, Dead Space 3, etc, having multiplayer just proves even moreso that single player is dying. If it wasn't, there would be NO NEED to tack on a sub-par multiplayer. As more IPs come out, they become more online focused, because the single player is merely an afterthought these days. Look at God of War. People are still going to buy it because it is a franchise that has been around since Single Player was the predominant mover of games. But.... they had to tack on a terrible online portion. Why you ask? Because the focus is on MULTIPLAYER in this day and age.

Name me one new top selling IP in the past few years that is single player, and is not Dishonored.

Also, one must focus on Microsoft's market... The United States. Its an undisputed fact that Microsoft depends on America more than any other country...

Top game sales this year in the USA...

Black ops
Gears of War
God of War
Bioshock
Halo 4
Starcraft 3
Dead Space 3
....

Tomb Raider was number 11, and I skipped Luigi's Mansion because handhelds are irrelevant in my opinion.

No one is buying Black Ops for single player, everyone is buying it for multiplayer.

Same for Gears, whether its Co-op, Horde, or Competetive.

God of War was undoubtedly bolstered by the fact that it added online. Nevertheless it would score high, but thats like providing Mario as an example, God of war is going to sell whether single player is on the verge of extinction or not

Same thing goes for Bioshock Infinite.

Halo 4 = online

Starcraft = online

Dead Space resorted to focusing the entire game around online co-op. Why? Single player is dying.....

An interesting tidbit from my Vgchartz research that supports Microsoft's dominance of online gaming and their focus on it, is the sales of Call of Duty Black Ops 2

#1 Black Ops 2 (360)~ 680,000
#9 Black Ops 2 (Ps3)~ 391,000

Almost double the amount of games sold. Online games are driving microsoft, so its reasonable for them to install DRM.

I'm truly am sorry about the fact that you have poor internet. But want to know who isn't sorry? Microsoft. Because its a corporation. Every major release on the xbox has been the top download on Pirate bay weeks before launch. They'd rather risk having the minority of their clients who have spotty connections, then losing those game sales.

Look at it from Microsoft's point of view.

Why should I risk my PRODUCTS being illegally downloaded because people don't want to be always online?(in a day and age where mostly everyone is connected for a majority of the day).

Why should I risk new game sales to used games because people want to play single player and not be online?

Seriously. Even though it may not be 'fair' its a sound business decision. No pirated games(until they get around it, but even then it would be much more difficult), and no used games. That's big plus for Microsoft. Also, they'd most likely receive a bonus from third parties, due to them outlawing used games in their favor. So if they lose a majority of their client base(which wouldn't happen) if they only sell 30 million Xbox720's. They're making money off of all new games and no pirated games (fuels the sales of the games).

Boody-Bandit4041d ago (Edited 4041d ago )

@sikbeta
" the guy who created one of the most successful Third Party Games"

Cliffy B. "helped" with the "development" of Gears of War. He didn't create it. Even if he did that is no reason to act as if his opinion must be respected. I love the Gears series but IMHO Cliffy suffers from what I call LMS. Kind of like Napoleon did.

Personally I have been gaming when Cliffy B was still in diapers. I don't want an always on feature from MS with their next offering, and NO, I will not just "deal with it". Personally I went from an absolutely (camp out overnight if I have to) MUST OWN to a I will wait for E3 to see how this will be implemented.

If always-on is in fact a reality? That in itself probably wont deter me. BUT if the rumors of no rental or used games is true? Peace out MS. It's been a blast but we have grown apart.

sam1mur4041d ago (Edited 4041d ago )

@ DMARC

You just proved my point. Its not a rational decision unless you have "Eyes of green dollar signs"

Microsoft is a company. It has "eyes of dollar signs". It doesn't care if you're sad that there's online. Sales numbers justifies DRM.

And those aren't numbers out of the thin air. You have to be completely naive to think that the number isn't near there.... Actually, its higher...

The failure rate of xbox's is 27% as of 2009 (the middle of the xbox's life span). That number alone when taken out of 75 million....

Thats 20 million xboxs that are broken. So thanks for rebuting my argument to just make it stronger. 20 million broken xboxs. ~7,000 gamestops in operation, and add in the people who just don't play anymore.... Lets say that unrealistically, half of those people sent their xbox to get fixed(common sense).... the number alone in broken xboxs is 10 million...

So the number can be realistically estimated above 10 million, far above, due to the failure rates of xboxs, used xboxs, and those that aren't in play...

so 55-65 million xboxes in use and 45 million are on live.

EDIT: Like seriously... how can you argue that a company's intent isn't dollar signs. There's a reason EA doesn't give a poo about being the "Worst company in American history".

And... its not just an opinion... the sales facts, the trends in game development, and analyst statements prove that single player is dying.

GadgetGooch4041d ago

I find it funny that you got so many disagree's just for expressing your point of view lol.

AlphaJunk4041d ago (Edited 4041d ago )

I agree , I think he's ok. Of course, people tend to dislike people that don't agree instead of realizing people have different ideas.
Honestly I can't understand the big scare with always on - I think we have a bunch of broke asses worried about paying for their internet bill; then again, they somehow managed to post on here with their conspiracy scares.

Bimkoblerutso4041d ago

@sam1mur

I fail to see your point. You can spout off numbers all you want. Diablo 3 and Simcity buyers were STILL pissed off at the DRM even given their ability to connect to the internet. It has nothing....NOTHING to do with whether or not a consumer is capable of connecting to the internet. What percentage of people complaining here on N4G do you think have internet access?

And what's really pissing consumers off is that these dickhole developers (like the newly anointed King of the Dickholes in the article) are trying to pass this off as just another case of gamer entitlement. That is goddamn INSULTING, I don't care how you spin it. This is a real issue, whether you be for it or against it. Idiots like Bleszinski telling us to "deal with it" should be insulting to people on both sides of this argument.

Dee_914041d ago (Edited 4041d ago )

@sam1mur
wow
i dont even know how to reply to that.

first you say
"Who are you to say they aren't bought for multiplayer?"

then in the same comment you say.
"No one is buying Black Ops for single player, everyone is buying it for multiplayer. "
Who are YOU to say they are?

plus a plethora of similar asinine statements I wont waste my time quoting.

I dont even ... how do you have so many bubbles lol
Also you missed my point about eyes of green dollar signs.If you watch spongebob you would know that when mr krab gets eyes of dollar ( or hearts lol ms puff episode) all rationality goes out the window.My point was there is no rational thought behind this.They are blinded by trying to make and or save money.That will actually cause them to lose money ( not related to spongebob)

edit
WOOOW

"The failure rate of xbox's is 27% as of 2009 (the middle of the xbox's life span). That number alone when taken out of 75 million "
So your saying that in 2009 there were 75million 360's sold?So they sold like 400k consoles from 2009-2013?
LMAO dude what are you smoking,it was 27% of how many they sold at the time they reported that, which was well under 75mill .. or even 40mill.Using your date, around that time it wouldve been no more than 5million bricked consoles.Hell il give you an extra million to compensate for a year.That would still make it 20 million consoles out 33million as of 2009 with live.Thats 13 million WORKING consoles without live.

MRMagoo1234041d ago

@sam1mur

Every comment you made is so far of base it isnt funny.

"Which is the truth. If anyone is shelling out $600 for a console on launch day, they are going to play it online"

I bought the ps3 in AUS for $1000 Australian and i didnt even have the net at home yet.

"You can really notice the derogation of this site with the fact that your completely reasonable comment has 16 disagrees"

The whole point in the disagree and agree button is to show whether you disagree or agree right?

"No one is buying Black Ops for single player, everyone is buying it for multiplayer"

I have all the CODS on ps3 right now starting from COD4 and i have only played 2 of them online the rest i only played the campaign.

All in all your ideas of reality and the real reality are 2 very different things.

Broll4041d ago

@Bimkoblerutso

"What percentage of people complaining here on N4G do you think have internet access?"

Like 100% Yo!

hay4040d ago (Edited 4040d ago )

It's fairly elementary, I worked with internet technologies for a looong time now, and this always online stuff will mean beta testing for all of us for the first few years.
There will be bottlenecks once the service starts, there will be downtimes, there will be maintenances, even further content cutting, and in several years, services will be closed down prohibiting usage of good old apps, forcing us in the end to crack and emulate this stuff at later times.

It's one of the stepping stones for internet licensing and censorship, leading to full control over what people could access in the net as people "dealing with it" will encourage more and more of similar tactics to be incorporated by various companies.
In about 10 years this will mean always on, always tracking, always licensed, always via official distributed channels(and we know they want to rape your wallet and jizz all over your family pics), always controlled, and when the infrastructure won't be bringing them enough money revenue, servers will be decommissioned putting even your favourite single-player titles dead in the water without resorting to mentioned "fourth party" solutions.

And here comes his "deal with it part". If we allow it, we will have to deal with it.

Vote with your wallets, it's all they dream about. Your wallet is ground below their feet, blood in their mechanical pumps, and all they have in their eyes.
Do not give it to them, they will shake and collapse like damned junkies.

+ Show (19) more repliesLast reply 4040d ago
koehler834041d ago

I've always found the dumbass things he says to be the rule rather than the exception.

Blaze9294041d ago

" Veteran games developer Cliff Bleszinski reacts to the recent firing of Microsoft employee Adam Orth over comments he made concerning the next Xbox being always connected. "

"Let’s pay attention to the wording here. Resigned. Not fired."

...this is why i really am starting to dislike this site -_-

Pintheshadows4041d ago (Edited 4041d ago )

I remember when the original UT maps he created were included on PC Gamer UK cd's before he even worked for Epic. Pretty crazy.

He even did guides for making maps. I tried. Key word there being tried.

X-Alchemist4041d ago

first of all this title was completely taken out of context, secondly dude did you even read the article?
this guy talks so much sense it's unreal

Jaqen_Hghar4041d ago

HA! A man gets it. Unreal. Like the game

IcyEyes4041d ago

Cliff Bleszinski is one the most overrated people in the VG biz.

Sure, Gears of war is awesome ... but seriously, he haven't designed that game alone ... He just love to put his face everywhere.

About his skill over games like UT ... well, everybody can go pro playing 6h at day the same game. Trust me.

Ps Anyway, Cliff was pretty skilled over the MP.

Aomizuchi4041d ago

What did you expect from an egomaniac?

FamilyGuy4041d ago

"Well behaved people rarely make history.

Deal with it."

I'm partially on his side but even he agreed that Adam was an idiot for blabbing. The guy could have easily said his opinion without being so offensive but he chose to be rude: "Why would I live there?" In that line alone he offended two cities.

Crazyglues4041d ago (Edited 4041d ago )

Well I will "Deal With it" by not buying the next Xbox...

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4041d ago
solar4041d ago (Edited 4041d ago )

My PC has been connected to the net 24/7 since the day cable has been available. The world wont end if the 720 has to be too mates. Jesh.

Steam uses it and i have no problems. It at all bad.

jessupj4041d ago

Have you stopped to think for just a moment that... your not the only fking person in this world?

Rhythmattic4041d ago

Just want to point out Steam Has an Offline Mode.

3-4-54041d ago (Edited 4041d ago )

Hey Cliff. What you say might effect people buying your games or games of people like you in the future.

You may lose sales, workers and even the company because we choose to spend our money elsewhere.

Deal With It.

stage884041d ago

What a pissy article. This guy sounds like a complete douche.

Also, yes, people make mistakes but when you have a top role in Microsoft then these mistakes will always cost you. It's the position you've accepted to be in.

#dealwithit

Tyre4041d ago (Edited 4041d ago )

Cliffy B is the man who recently said that Gamers have the tremendous power to vote with their money and if Gamers are against something they should let the companies know by not buying it. Cliffy B the things your saying now are useless u completely contradict urself....The cat is out of the bag, dude you are trying to do damage control on your own statements. Are you afraid of the consequences? Gamers will sure let Microsoft know what is acceptable....if the always on is necessary to play games than Xbox will be a failure...no more used games, no more offline play? F it i'm not buying the NextXbox, MS messed up if this is for real. IT IS UNACCEPTABLE! Change it or prepare for EPIC FAIL. #Dealwithit!

PSN-JeRzYzFyNeSt4041d ago

word man this guy is a tool.. he thinks hes a pretty boy that can talk and back shit up.. he's fucking pissing me off hes a nobody to me.. wow you made GEARs.. this guy needs to do his job be good at it and stay humble and not piss gamers off. then maybe we can consider him as a good developer.

zerocrossing4041d ago

I knew the guy couldn't be all bad but he just comes across really anti consumer lately, probably due to certain ties to the industry IMO, that's a shame though since people may stop listening to him altogether.

omi25p4041d ago (Edited 4041d ago )

Read the actual article would you ffs. Allformats has posted it completely out of context.

He says if someone posts something on twitter you dont like you should deal with it. Not that you should deal with always online.

The fact the Adam Orth was forced to leave MS is a joke in its self.

If people actually bothered to look into what he said on twitter and not just whine like usual they would see he was actually tweeting to one of his BEST FRIENDS.

Now put yourselves in his shoes. Your sat comfortably at home and your friend writes a messages to you on twitter or on facebook/Tiwtter complaining about his interent. You jokely right its because you live in a slum. The next day you are fired.

The people who got antsy over what he said should be ashamed of themselves for making him lose his job.

Also you arent even allowed to submit Blog posts.

starchild4041d ago (Edited 4041d ago )

Why is it everytime you talk I get annoyed? Oh, that's right, you're a raging fanboy.

There is nothing wrong with Cliff Bleszinski. The problem is with you.

I'm not saying you have to agree with him on any particular subject, but if you have a problem with him in general it's likely because you're a Sony fanboy who associates him with MS and thus dislike him for it.

Most of you are a joke. It's obvious most of you didn't even read the article and just made baseless assumptions. It's clear who the real tools are.

jessupj4041d ago (Edited 4041d ago )

Or maybe, just maybe a lot of what clif says he not only disagrees with but feels it's anti gamer. You ever thought about that?

No of course not. Anyone that disagrees with the god and savior, ciffy b, is obviously an automatic fanboy.

MS fanboys piss me off more than any other group, I swear.

rainslacker4041d ago (Edited 4041d ago )

I actually respect the guy for the most part. He seems to be passionate about the games he makes.

That being said, I take his arguments much the same as I do as those he makes for Digital Distribution. Basically saying that it's the future, and then completely ignoring the valid complaints that people actually have about the idea of it. In this case he didn't really ignore the complainers, or those that have scenarios that show it's not a good idea, he called them "the fringe".

I find that rather condescending. The fringe is not such a small group to be ignored, both in DD, and in always on. The complaining on the forums(here and elsewhere) was almost unilaterally against. Even when it devolved into fan boy bickering, it was more, "MS sucks cuz of this" and "Lets just wait and see, it's probably not what it seems".

I also found it rather funny he talked about how technological advancement is not focused on the fringe. Almost every technological advancement to date starts with the fringe, and works it's way to the mainstream. One small one he, and we, may be aware of, VIDEO GAMES.

This advancement is not in the interest of technology. This advancement is about consumer control. Advancements for consumer control start with the mainstream, then work their ways toward the fringe.

Whymii4041d ago

Cliff Bleszinski is always online so "deal with it".

lizard812884041d ago

agree. I use to like him and his games, but now he is kind of annoying.

And when his game doesn't sell due to always on DRM, we can tell him, "deal with it".

sam1mur4041d ago

@DMARC

You are so so ignorant...

You call out my bubbles just because you disagree with me?

I used 2009 as an example because it was in the middle of the lifespan of the console. Thus the median. Are you five?

Prior to 2009 the failure rates were much higher, and after that it was in the low teens. 27% is an accurate median. I'm not gonna average every study just for the sake of a debate over n4g. You're bolstering my argument even more. With early launch being higher than 27%, and more xboxs being sold then, then the number of failed consoles is most likely higher than my initial prediction

You are such an ANGRY CONSUMER that your looking at this situation completely irrationally. If something is inline with the company's vision, and you don't like that, then you are not the consumer that they are targeting to.

Everyone gets so mad and complains, but in the end of the day nothing happens!

In the mid-late 2000s remember when everyone complained about DLC in various games? There's no way you don't. When companies started releasing dlc that was made during production of the game, people wrote in anger. What changed? Nothing. People are still buying the DLCs.

People complain about COD never having an updated engine. They still buy it, it breaks records every year. People complained about 15$ map packs. They sold millions, and continue to.

When people complained about EA origin, did you see any drops in sales?

EA screwed people over with Mass effect. Releasing essential content as DLC, the BS ending, etc. Yet people still loves Mass Effect, and when there's rumors for the new one everyones excited.

The Diablo DRM fiasco began at launch! People continue to buy it yet they know it has DRM. Its not like sales have been stagnant...

Steam's always online, yet it is the most popular form of digital game distribution.... They are doing fine.

People still bought heart of the swarm... Why would they be supporting Blizzard, if they are implementing DRM in their games?

People complained about Starcraft 2 LAN being taken out.... still sold millions.

I must emphasize this.... NO ONE HAS YET PROVEN THAT DRM IS NOTHING BUT A COMPLAINT.

The SimCity issues were mostly technical due to the DRM (Lag, internet, etc) But people still bought it REGARDLESS. It was announced months prior that it was only online.

Sorry I'm seeing it from a companies point of view... I'm not saying I support the implementing of DRM (I'm not I'm buying a PS4). But it doesn't matter what I think because if Microsoft is making this decision they are targeting people who DON'T CARE. If you care about DRM, 'Too bad, don't buy the product'. If you don't like the product then don't buy it.

Until there is an actual case of DRM completely destroying a company's integrity Microsoft is following a completely sound model.

And we can't assume that the DRM, if it is implemented, has entirely negative repercussions. If every game is a new game then Microsoft can implement a less expensive game policy, at least for first party games.

You can disagree with a company's direction, and you can refuse to buy their product, but that doesn't mean that it is not a sound decision. Until DRM destroys an entire fan base, or significantly effects a prominent company's sales there's no reason to assume that it would.

Shadowstar4041d ago (Edited 4041d ago )

Steam is NOT always online. Perhaps some features require online, but if my internet connection goes down, I am still able to play my Steam games. Anyways, to the main points.

I buy Blizzard products in spite of the always-on DRM. I don't like it, and it has stopped me from playing sometimes because I'm anti-social and don't want my status broadcast to my friends when I'm not in the mood to talk, but... oh well. I will deal with it, because I really, really want to be able to play StarCraft. (I wish I hadn't bought Diablo though. That wasn't worth dealing with the always online part. I never even finished my first play through.)

On the other hand, I really wanted to play Spore. I've heard it was a pretty good game, but the DRM was a deal breaker for me, and perhaps others, given that the sales numbers are really low on VG Chartz. Maybe everyone downloaded it? I dunno. I don't know anyone who bought it, though.

I think the games everyone wants aren't going to feel the hit of the DRM implementation. You're not going to see DRM destroy a fanbase, because the fans buy games regardless. That's why they're fans. I hate that Hayter's not going to be there, but I'm going to buy the next Metal Gear because... darn it, it's Metal Gear. The games that people are on the fence about, the ones that don't have an established fan base? Those are the ones that are hurt. I think the always-on DRM stifles potential new IPs far more than anything established.

Awesome-Xanto4041d ago (Edited 4041d ago )

@sam1mur:

You know for gamers not wanting single players games anymore, Skyrim sure sold pretty damn well... so well it downright proved that gamers don't give a dang about if a game has multiplayer or not when it's filled with content warranting $60.

Millions of MS's customers don't have access to an XBL account, and throwing out millions of potential sales is bad no matter how your try to spin it.

And I can't believe Cliffy tried to compare this to electric... the Internet (while an issue) isn't the big issue here. You can't depend on publishers to still give you access to online depended games you payed for 1, 3, or 5+ years down the road because they no longer get $$$. Why should consumer's give the control to companies to take away access to something we payed for with a drop of hate?

This is going to become very apparent this gen when the next gen comes and all those patches, DLC, and games will disappear when MS shuts down it's servers for the 360. Meaning you better hope your current 360 doesn't die or your SOL and people are going to get a rude awakening about buying digital products.

My electric company will be happy to still give me electric 1, 3, or 5+ years down the road because I will still be giving them $$$.

CalvinKlein4041d ago

I have all playstations and both xboxs. I will nto be buying this new xbox if half this crap is true. Especially if the ps4 has more power, not buying this crap. I hate kinnect and any motion controls, hate catering to hipsters(MS wants to emulate apple's hipster success IMO) and I hate that they have shifted their focus from the people that made teh xbox a succes to begin with. MS will fail really ahrd this next generation if tehy expect people to pay a fee and be required to have Internet 24/7 still.

4041d ago
humbleopinion4040d ago

@Snookes12
You probably hate him because he's not a corporate marketing tool thinking twice about every word he says and how it will please the fans, and instead he's a designers who already proved himself, owns nothing to no-one and speaks his mind in a clear way.

And sometimes when people do that, we hears things we don't want to. Things that challenge our perception. Things that we can't simply ignore. And this annoys us.
I, for example, thought that Adam was a complete Douche with how stupidly he cam off - but now Cliff reminds me that he wasn't even a spokeperson and maybe he now lost his job because of something that got people annoyed with no real harm.

Cliff also sets a reminder on how inevitable always online will be at one point for most major games - something that I don't want to accept but will probably be inevitable. Well isn't that a pain in the throat?

P.S:
There is also a slight chance that you get annoyed about Cliff because he designed a successful Xbox 360 exclusive game (in a similar fashion of how people get annoyed about David Jaffe or David Cage just because they designed PS3 exclusive games) . I hope this isn't the case here, but it's surely the one for the person who submitted this article and didn't even bother to understand what Cliff actually referred to when he wrote "deal with it".

edic4040d ago

The Gaming Industry is just like politics. If someone in the government will say something negative or misbehave especially if it concerns the general public, of course people will react. It doesn't matter if he is a good person or not. It is not the publics fault if he resigns or have been fired. People have the right to say something. We know that everyone makes mistakes in our lives CLIFFY, and we all have faced the consequences of our actions. In other words, we should all "DEAL WITH IT"

+ Show (24) more repliesLast reply 4040d ago
Moonman4041d ago

So it's confirmed kind of? lol

dennett3164041d ago

MS just need to confirm that Always Online is a capability, but not a necessity for games to work....that will save them a lot of head aches and negative press.
Console gamers just don't want to have to put up with issues like Sim City and Diablo 3 players had to endure...tell them they won't have to, and it'll be fine. Unless, of course, that isn't the case and that's WHY they're being silent....

Jek_Porkins4041d ago

Cliffy used to be cool, but now every other word out of his mouth is something ignorant or how digital only is the greatest thing ever. I guess once he stopped working for Epic he was free to speak his mind, kind of puts things in perspective. Wonder how many people are working for one of these companies and secretly hates it or has strong feelings about things like DRM or DLC.

Conzul4041d ago

I prefer Pachter now way more than Cliffy.

Then again, Sess and Pachter take turns being on my good side, then one of them goes and says some stupid shit every other month or so.

rainslacker4041d ago

He was saying digital is the future when he worked at Epic. I never found it to be really offensive when he delivered his opinion though. Someone would ask him, he'd offer his opinion, and he'd back it up with some random hyperbole, and not address any valid concerns or issues involved...much like any random forum user. Given his position, I would assume he would be privy to many facts and statistics which could help support his argument, but I've yet to see anything substantial in my own research on the matters.

People in the public spotlight are allowed to have opinions, it's really just a matter in how they deliver them. Don't be arrogant or condescending to those that your addressing. It serves no purpose but to heat up a discussion, and the facts get lost in the fray.

Kind of like the owner of Chik-Fil-A. He got a lot of flack over his traditional marriage stance, which was really more about God than marriage. People went crazy over it, even though he was able to back up his opinion with reason(not that I found his reasoning to be terribly firm, but it's fair considering who he is and what he believes). As such, internet users should be a little more level headed when talking about such matters...something which didn't happen in this scenario, and not for the topic at hand.

"Wonder how many people are working for one of these companies and secretly hates it or has strong feelings about things like DRM or DLC."

Hard to say. From my own experience, people don't really hate on things until it affects them. They say things like "Deal With It" to those that may voice concern, and then come out with so much righteous indignation when one voices a counter argument. Then one day it hits them, and they say how it's awful, and can't look back and say, "You know what...maybe I should have looked at it from other people's point of view". Unfortunately by then, it's usually too late.

At least with all this, I can say I put my opinion out there, and affirm myself to not support anything so blatantly anti-consumer if it comes to pass. If it becomes popular, it won't be because of anything I did.

Show all comments (178)
300°

Microsoft Survey Asks About Handheld

A new survey from Microsoft has further hinted at the possibility of an Xbox handheld being in development.

Read Full Story >>
twistedvoxel.com
EasilyTheBest5d ago

This is definitely happening, I just hope they have 2 versions one with a much bigger screen.

GamerRN5d ago

I'll be happy with this, and a PC console hybrid that rivals anything we have power wise

Number1TailzFan4d ago

The problem with bigger devices is playing them on your side in bed, Vita and before that was fine. Since the Switch you gotta have a gooseneck holder & controllers detached so you can lie down holding them, or your arm will quickly get tired.

1Victor4d ago

@thesofware: “A much bigger screen than what?”
A gaming laptop 🤷🏿🤣

Kosic4d ago

Than the screen originally planned...duh... :D

darthv724d ago

it kinda already did... https://www.xbox.com/en-US/...

They are just gauging interest in one of their own.

crazyCoconuts4d ago

A Xbox version of Logitech G-Cloud?
I mean, why bother? Not like the G cloud is flying off shelves and what would Xbox add to make it better?
They're surely not going to create bespoke architecture here and there are already a few Windows handhelds out there. I have little confidence in their ability to put together an attractive UI in the way Steam did. So I doubt anything will come from this.

KicksnSnares5d ago

Day One buy for me if they'll make a dedicated handheld device.

darthv725d ago

i have that logitech g-cloud. Its a sweet little piece of kit. I like that it can also install games from the play store unlike the other android based handheld.

mudakoshaka5d ago

It sure is! Don't understand why you get the down-votes. Whoever does not like the G Cloud must have been dropped down a well, head first, when they were of a younger age.

PassNextquestion5d ago

I wonder if Microsoft will perform better in Japan if they do actually make a handheld since everyone says handheld and mobile are king over there.

TiredGamer5d ago

This looks like the future of the game industry... all three platforms with a handheld option.

I wonder if the Playstation Portal is a technology test-bed/prototype for a future Playstation handheld?

rlow15d ago (Edited 5d ago )

It’s a possibility but I can’t help but think would that be the best way to go about it? Though it would give you data on how much it is used and game type. It’s still not a true portable device and so people approach it differently. I think that data on phones, tablets, and of course the competition would give a better indication.

But I really think if Sony is considering a new PSP that could play ps5 games, now would be the time to dive in. Honestly, if they do this, it would be huge.

Traecy4d ago (Edited 4d ago )

Doubt if Sony PS wants to support a new handheld with first party games. Something they lacked with the Vita. What they should do is have a handheld that is like the PS Portal which can play all games but play those games on the go as well as at home. Something like that is a better investment.

TiredGamer4d ago

Agreed that you will probably never see a separate line of games specifically for the handheld (a la PSP or PSVita). The modern economics and expectations of game development make that cost prohibitive. What makes more sense is if the full-fat game on PS5 or PS6 has a special "handheld" profile that is automatically optimized for the lower spec handheld. There would be some significant compromises compared to the bigger console variant, but it would be the same game overall and would only require a single purchase.... somewhat what the Switch does with a lower resolution when playing handheld versus docked.

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310°

Xbox Games Showcase Followed by [REDACTED] Direct Airs June 9

- Xbox Wire - Mark your calendars! The Xbox Games Showcase followed by [REDACTED] Direct airs June 9. More info inside.

Read Full Story >>
news.xbox.com
bionicstar5d ago

Will they show Fable 4, Stalker 2, GoW 6 & Perfect Dark?

PhillyDonJawn5d ago

Crossing fingers for Fable and perfect dark. And State of Decay 3

RaidenBlack5d ago (Edited 5d ago )

And maybe Clockwork Revolution, South of Midnight, Contraband, Project 007 & OD? lol
and whatever happened to Everwild ?
+ that rumored Wu Tang RPG

Sonic18815d ago (Edited 5d ago )

Will they have official release dates and gameplay?

anast5d ago

Another game pass event with their plans to go all streaming.

5d ago
Lightning775d ago

It's an Xbox showcase that they have every year.

Make smarter comments for once.

anast5d ago (Edited 5d ago )

Tell me what a smarter comment is.

If they don't sell game pass the entire time, then I will be wrong. All of this can be proven once the show gets underway. Let's wait and see.

InUrFoxHole4d ago

@Anast
Anything you didn't type. Good day sir!

5d ago
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5d ago Replies(1)
Lightning775d ago (Edited 5d ago )

Wow too easy.

You went from MS going all streaming to selling gamepass content in which we all know they are.

Which one is it?

Pretty clear you don't know what a smart comment is at least you admit you don't know.

5d ago
anast4d ago (Edited 4d ago )

"Another game pass event with their plans to go all streaming."

It's both. I would worry about your own intelligence at this point. It seems that there is not enough to go around for you to worry about how smart other people are.

Lightning774d ago

It's just a regular event announcing games. Nice one captain obvious they're gonna mention gp stuff like they do every year what else is new.

The all streaming part is just you, being you I guess. They have streaming options but going all streaming again is just you pulling stuff outta thin air.

anast4d ago

You don't know what a smart comment is or isn't. You're welcome for the help.

Lightning774d ago

No you said something dumb then you tried to back track and mention GP.

Again make smart comments for once.

anast4d ago

And we have broken record syndrome.

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 4d ago
darthv725d ago

Wonder if they will address the handheld rumors....?

jimb0j0nes5d ago

For a brief moment I thought we might get a whole Direct for Gears 6 - seems like it's COD though!

Show all comments (44)
290°

Microsoft’s Surface and Xbox hardware revenues take a big hit in Q3

Microsoft just posted the third quarter of its 2024 fiscal financial results. The software maker made $61.9 billion in revenue and a net income of $21.9 billion during Q3. Revenue is up 17 percent, and net income has increased by 20 percent.

Read Full Story >>
theverge.com
darthv7210d ago

Xbox content + services up 62% while hardware down 31%... seems about right with the way they tout you don't need the hardware to play. People can play on their phones or smart tv or other means. I don't hardly play on my consoles directly since getting devices like the logitech g-cloud and ps portal. Which is to also say I have been playing more digital than physical because of these devices.

solideagle9d ago

you should apply in MS PR team buddy, I think you will do a great job in my humble opinion :)

Sonic18819d ago

I thought darthv72 and Obscure_Observer already work for Microsoft 🤔

dveio9d ago

MS: "Xbox services and content without AB up 1%, with AB up 62%. Hardware down 31%. In total a loss of 350 mill."

darthv72: "Seems about right."

MS: "Excuse m ..."

darthv72: "I don't hardly play on my consoles directly."

MS:

Lightning779d ago

What he said was facts. How he plays games is no concern of you. Don't get too mad about it.

Cacabunga9d ago

I can tell people like you are an absolute minority..

If service is up means their fans and fanboys accepted this model and subscribed to it. The near future you will see a big decline because the service is saturated.

darthv729d ago

to you it may seem like the minority... but your bubble is shrinking because more and more are following suit. convenience is a hell of a drug and its also why physical sales only amount to 30% of overall game sales. times are changing, you either get with them or you get left behind.

neutralgamer19928d ago

Darth

30% physical sales: yet Phil and xbox division are in a rush go give up on that 30%. they don't have any right to give up any piece of the pie since the control such a little of the pie to begin with

also, the market is clearly speaking that the model Xbox is pushing isn't working right now the keyword being right now. you are right about freedom to play anywhere so i hope they put their games on steam

shinoff21839d ago

But that's been ms for years. When things aren't going their way they try to change the way things are said. For instance console sales are down, they stop telling how many sold instead telling us how many hours spent in halo or headshots. So it makes sense console sales down just say people are playing on more devices then previous. What they won't say is how many xbox players jumped ship to ps5.

Cacabunga9d ago

Hardware sales are so bad that Sony and Nintendo are blowing the sales off the water with their hardware.

If Xbox are losers, others aren’t..
Xbox already tried everything with Xbox live then subscriptions went down so much that they had to find something else. Their fans subscribed then reached saturation rather quickly.

Hardware and exclusive games is where it’s at! Keep gamers excited, announce decent software and people will support you

itsmebryan9d ago

@shin
Well keep it simple Sony 's operating income is down 26% and Microsoft's is up 32%. No MS spin there, just facts. 😉
Cheers

S2Killinit9d ago

MS is after diminishing consoles as a medium. They want to destroy this market because they couldnt win. MS’s vision is to dissolve console gaming.

romulus239d ago

Odd that a company that touts you dont need the hardware to play is already touting another console in the works.

darthv729d ago

They are not reliant on the HW but still want to maintain a presence (no matter how small) is a good thing. It shows commitment to the craft. It reminds me of SNK and how they made games for their own hardware (Neo Geo) while also making them for others because they knew there was a market to do so. They knew they would sell more to others but also sell to their own niche fan base.

TheEroica9d ago (Edited 9d ago )

Perfectly reasonable post down voted by insecure corporation friendly folk.... But not gamers. Real gamer want accessibility and ease of acquisition for all.... Company shills are the only ones still telling us that hardware locking people from games is good for us.

Chevalier8d ago

@Darth

You should stop parroting metrics like an idiot without context.

"Xbox content and services revenue grew 62% in Q3 from a year earlier, “driven by 61 points of net impact” from the purchase of the third-party video game giant, Microsoft said."

61 of the 62% was from their merger so net increase is ONLY 1%

https://www.mesaonline.org/...

itsmebryan8d ago

@chevalier

It looks like made a great purchase. Much better then Sony buying Bungie. 😉
Cheers

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 8d ago
purple1019d ago

Xbox hardware revenue tanks to lowest point of Xbox Series generation

Profchaos9d ago

I'm not surprised surface is struggling they aren't relevant anymore

DOMination-9d ago

In the last two years they've started exiting the consumer market altogether. All of the newest Surface products are business models only. They can't seem to work out what they want to do with it.

XBManiac9d ago

Too expensive hardware when others offer the same or more for less? Good work, Green Team.

SimpleDad9d ago (Edited 9d ago )

"Despite some early successes for Xbox games on rival platforms, Xbox hardware is down by a massive 31 percent this quarter."
"Without Activision Blizzard, Microsoft’s overall gaming revenue would have actually declined this quarter."
"Xbox content and services would have only been up a single percent without Activision Blizzard..."
"It looks like next quarter is going to be a similar story for gaming at Microsoft, too."

That is crazy... so A/B/K is carrying the whole Xbox gaming.
Oh and Microsoft will be fine. Windows, Office and Cloud are growing with each pc purchase.

purple1019d ago

Activision: "we gonna need a bigger rucksack/backpack please"

Microsoft: "why's that"

Activision: "to carry yo' weak ass'

Profchaos9d ago (Edited 9d ago )

Top brass have also wanted to start seeing returns on the 100 billion they have put into various Xbox related moves so seeing more multiplatform games is highly likely especially from abk

It's basically saying that PlayStation is the reason Xbox is afloat right now thinks to Ps5 versions of COD

Kornholic9d ago

So basically PS and PC gamers' money is keeping Xbox on life support.

MrDead9d ago

The only growth MS will get out of the console industry is if it supports it's rivals platforms. Xbox is a pointless machine now. I can see them on a big push for live next, and they won't give up on trying to buy Steam.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 9d ago
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