The problem with Skyrim is progress

The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim is an ambitious and deeply flawed title. Unfortunately, the game fails on several levels at maintaining forward momentum.

[NagaSotuva]

People seem to love Skyrim (my friends, at least), but I just don't have 100+ hours to invest in just one title anymore. Unless that game is Mass Effect 3....

[Ramses3]

So far I'm about 35 hours in, and I don't even feel close to finishing.
Cant wait till after exams to put another 35 hours in! :D

[EVILDEAD360]

Once again I literally started Skyrim on a Sunday in the morning with some coffee and didn't finish playing until I pryed my hands off the the 360 with enough time to get about 6 hours of sleep.

I'm laughing at the all the 'bug'stories and all the 'why Skyrim suck' articles.

Clearly must be playing a different game or it must really play horribly on the other platforms.

Progression and the amazing freedom is why this game is one of the reasons this game is so phenominal.

Like Mass Effect 1 and 2,Fable 2, Fallout 3, Borderlands...Skyrim is one of those games you lose hours and hours playing and the whole time your saying to yourself I can't wait to play again with another character and see more of the possibilities.

Let em' hate..Simply an Epic RPG gem..GOTY by a loooong shot.

Evil

[RedDead]

It's unfortunate. Comments like these ^ will keep the franchise going in the direction it is. One of my favorite franchises down the drain, I can't believe people accept Skyrim simply because it's open world. The elder scrolls is a shadow of it's former self. It's a game with alot of crappy content and it's combat is a boring chore. Most importantly, it's NOT an Rpg gem, it's an action adventure through and through. It's barely an RPG at all now.

[PetitPiPi]

Skyrim is truly an amazing game. The game is absolutely huge. RedDead must be playing something completely different.

Why does it seem the only people complaining about Skyrim are PS fanboys?

ElliePage. Lazy? Really?! Smh.

[Tr10wn]

@RedDeadDestroyer
"One of my favorite franchises down the drain" you claim to be a fan of TES yet you complain about the combat system which was the same since the first and you dare to say Skyrim is not RPG... thats how fan of the serie you are, i been playing TES since Arena i can hardly tell something bad about TES because there isn't, stop pretending to be a fan of something you really don't like, just move on and don't bring your pathetic excuses and go play another game

[Drake117]

I honestly can't see how ppl can say that Skyrim is a shadow of previous ES games. Why because they removed worhless stats like acrobatics or athletics. Or they removed annoying things like having to repair half way through a dungeon or a hit and miss stat. And really lol your complaining about the combat after just saying that your an ES fan, dude skyrim only improved on previous es games style of combat. Everything that makes ES great is still in this game, they are just making good design choices and weaving out the ridiculous shit.

[hellvaguy]

@Naga

So you rather spend $60/game on 4 games that only last 15-20 hours each? Hmmm ya, no.

[ElliePage]

There is many more problems with Skyrim than just progress. The game is a mess and from developers who can't code worth a shit and are too lazy to fix their mistakes.

[admiralthrawn87]

shh. don't say that to all the people that had skyrim as their first "rpg."

this game for me was one of the most disappointing sequels of this generation. i love morrowind and oblivion. this just failed on so many levels.

look to demon's/dark souls, witcher 1 and 2, and kingdoms of amalur for superior RPG experiences.

[OhMyGandhi]

Mess or not, the game is massive. the task of fixing whats wrong in the code must be the equivalent of putting all stephen king books into an anthology, and sifting through, page by page to find problem area.
I would also...procrastinate...to say the least.

[AllroundGamer]

Dice says hello :D just look at the mess with BF3... the devs nowadays are really lazy and have no shame to release so buggy games...

[hiredhelp]

didnt you know we are "guinea pigs"
lab rats testers we pay for that right too crazy world.

[OhMyGandhi]

I also haven't had a ton of time to devote to Skyrim (only about 30 hours into it), but all I can say is wow.
Depth of games is something that's hard to define, let alone develop in a video game.

Depth can be character development, or a strong sense of origin. It can be the illusion of choice in a linear game, or the overwhelming aspect of it in a sandbox game.

What Skyrim does well is give the player an actual "world" to live in. It does not cater to fans of games where linearity guides the player from the start of his journey to an ending with a cutscene and then credits.

I really enjoyed this article, because it begs to question how progress can be translated into a title as vast as Skyrim. How best can a developer convey "reward" and "success" while not ending the game entirely? side quests. But what games need to make sure to include is a mission path to the ending point, something done so extremely well in "Mass Effect 2".

What I enjoy about Skyrim is the shear abundance of things to do. But will holding my breath through it and waiting for an end lesson my enjoyment of it? no. You get what you put in, and if completing activities for that person and traveling to speak to this person isn't your way to have fun or feel rewarded. You are playing the wrong game.

I think it's incredibly important that Skyrim exists and games like it. I also think that linear titles that give you a wham bam introduction, then conflict and resolution in a nice tidy package are also important. Both cater to different players, who value different playstyles.

[violents]

I agree, its not the type of game everyone would want to play. Honestly the only gripe i have outside of some glitchy framerate here and there is going to go along with one thing the author said in which the game is broken in certain aspects like where he said the after the driking contest he was put in a town where in his game his character was not welcome. I have done this quest as well and finished it, however i did'nt have the problem in Markath that he had because i havn't done any of the markath quests yet. There should be some sort of a quest managment system that tells you when certain questlines will ruin others or if you make a certain decision in one quest it would automatically remove the possibility of other questlines. Like if you were to join the theives guild or the dark brotherhood your choices have obviously aligned you as somewhat of an evil-doer you should no longer be able to join the companions as they have what would be considered a more noble agenda. And so on and so forth.

[Drake117]

Well said. I have been a long time ES fan since daggerfall and i am very surprised that Skyrim has seen the success it has. Since my days with daggerfall i would always bring ES games up in my favorite game conversations only to have ppl say lol wtf is a morrowind or daggerfall. ES games are my favorite games of all time but they def cater to a certain type of gamer. Most of the hate this game is receiving is by ppl that honestly shouldn't be playing this game because its just not their type.

[MidnytRain]

Skyrim's devs aren't lazy. A game like TES probably wouldn't even be possible by lazy devs. If these things were easy all problems would have been fixed by now. Game development is probably more than most of us do on a day-to-day basis.

Edit: @admiralthrawn87
Something's up here. Either you're calling me wrong, or you're wrong.

[admiralthrawn87]

identical caves. boring quests that merely involve walking somewhere, talking to someone, and walking back. blurry textures that are repeated everywhere. extremely lame combat, tons of glitches, old engine, 2 hour main quest where 1 hour of it was spent talking. yes they are lazy.

[h311rais3r]

U just described every single open world rpg. Why just blame skyrim? Besides if u did missions in rl u go do it and come back so u can't use that as a complaint.

[vortis]

It depends on the game.

A lot of times sequels use recycled code, especially fetch quests and kill quests. It's simply a matter of changing targets on the map and in the script, but essentially it's a copy/paste job.

The real trouble comes in with streamlined point-to-point quests where there are different effects to be had based on prior decisions.

All while playing Mass Effect 2 I just kept thinking about how taxing it would have been managing all the dialogue possibilities in that game because they weren't all simple fetch/kill quests.

In other words, the complexity of the setup determines whether or not the development of the game was handled lazily or not. However, if there's a lot of repetition in what you do in the game (the same dungeons or reoccuring quests) then it's safe to say that it was a lazy design.

[Jazz4108]

The problem is the devs should not have released it on the ps3 as it obviously has major problems with Ram heavy games.

[banjadude]

Ha, I have this problem with most RPGs. I have this nagging need to finish all sidequests and/or explore every aspect of the world/game before I even touch the main quest. The problem is, by the time that is done, I am so exhausted and I lose interest in the game. I know... it's pretty bad.

I've stopped playing Skyrim for awhile now, but I'll get back to it some day...

[camel_toad]

Thats what happened to me. I concentrated on side quests so much and began seeing the same drugar over n over and tired cave areas that I just hit a point where I was worn out on it all, especially the shallow combat and so I just plowed through the main quest and was done for good with it. Sorry for the run on sentence ;)

[banjadude]

I should do that (just forsake everything and try to get the main quest done), but it's so easy to get distracted in that game (oh, I forgot to mention, this happened to me in Oblivion... which I still haven't finished!)

[nirwanda]

Are you playing the same game as me, the so called shallow combat took me about 30 hours to finally deside how play the game, if you want to make the combat shallow you and just grab a big sword and armour, but if you want it to be more interesting try some of the other perks.

[360 man]

@ camel_toad.

that is exactly what i did lool

[Tex117]

Skyrim is great on alot of levels. The first 40 hours are incredible. Open gameplay...new places to discover.

Around that time you start to realize that all these quests you are doing isn't impacting the world at all. You can kill some people, and then join them later. *Didnt want to spoil*

Though the dungeons are better than oblivion, rarely are they worth your time exploring after 40 hours. No good loot.

Really, the game shines in the first 20-40 hours where you are just out there wandering around.

After that...it fals apart.

[Baba1906]

i agree. and i kind of felt disaapionted ate the ending of the main quest. i was like..... wth, i wish i could feel a little bit more, that im changing something the world and that im getting stronger and more powerfull. i kinda didnt. i do think the game is amazing.

[Reborn]

@Rusted.

Don't get too deluded there. Of course, it's a good game. No one expected a perfect experience. However, when the game reaches such a point that you lag unbearably, pushes the limits of playability. You have a problem.

Bugs/glitches were expected. But how such an issue dodged testing is beyond me, and many others. The process they used needs rethinking, or someone needs to be spoken to.

[OhMyGandhi]

I think that people did expect this game would be perfect, and who could blame them? It has received top honors from so many different publications. And after a plethora of perfect scores, the idea of "perfection" is implied. What bothers me the most is that perfect scores mean that there are no faults that can be found in both game design and execution. It also implies that Bethesda has "mastered" the conception and development of their title. Do I think Skyrim is a masterpiece? No. Do I think it's a damned good game filled to the brim with ambition and a firm understanding of what it wants to be? yes.

I agree that glitches can hinder a game, and like many of Bethesda's titles, can taint an otherwise exciting and refreshing title. I bought the 360 version because I've heard of the issues with it on ps3.

Every game has bugs, or annoyances, but when it effects the player in such a way that they've simply lost any motivation to move on, it certainly, as you said, becomes a problem.

I think it should automatically remove itself from the perfect score category when said bugs come into play at such a regular rate.

I also think that a review should stand behind the quality of a title as it is shipped, and not what it will eventually become through patches and fixes.

But progress in videogames doesn't have anything to do with bugs. Progress is designed through story and interaction, bugs are faults from an execution standpoint. Both effect players.

People say "I played about 200 hours into the game, and I just can't stand it anymore!" that cracks me right up. I ask those people, "what is it that made you continue to play, despite repetition and/or bugs?".

Regardless of what they thought of any particular quest or action, what brought them from one place to another is the innate need to see everything. It's curiosity that drives the player, and Bethesda is able to capture it so well, despite performance related issues.

I agree with you Reborn, that Bethesda needs to rethink how they wish to refine their system and squash bugs within a certain amount of time. It's amazing to acknowledge the fact that they knew they had glitches galore, but they also knew that (and were right to expect) that the majority of us can still manage to have a damned good time regardless of the game's imperfections.

[MasterD919]

This is why I dove head first into this game on my own terms...I didn't do any quests or do anything story-related. I got the hang of fighting, casting spells, leveling and just wandered around exploring locations and gaining loot. Then I started doing side quests and main missions.

I don't feel fatigued because I also play other games too in between...

[Pintheshadows]

As a fickle person, and therefore gamer i'm done with Skyrim now but I did clock up about 350 hours (unemployments silver lining) and enjoyed every moment.

[gypsygib]

I actually kind of agree with the article. While I enjoy Skyrim, the narratives are horrible or completely missing, I feel no attachment to any characters or any storyline. Often, I'm reluctant to play it because it feels like a chore.

I've tried to increase my enjoyment by pretending I'm just a regular mercenary trying to make it rich, taking any job I can get. And, who happens to be dragon born.

I don't know why but the quests in Oblivion were much more interesting, Skyrim is beautiful looking but is missing a certain magic.

[Pintheshadows]

I got the civil war over and done with early and hundreds of hours later NPC's were acting like it hadn't happened. They showed no reaction. I sided with The Stormcloaks so having the Imperial Emperor visiting Stormcloak controlled Skyrim was even more confusing. There isn't a lot of closure sometimes but it is still a very good game.

[ZBlacktt]

Plated the game in 199 hours 54 mins in 19 days. Had the frame rate issue. Did the patch update when it came out. Finished the game trophies. Invested another 100 hours in after that and still loved the game. So not everyone is finding the game to have that many challenges.

[MizTv]

got the plat at like 150 hours and in no way is this as good as 3 and 4

[Eske]

Hmm...I don't follow. It seems like one of the author's core complaint is that there aren't barriers preventing one from reaching new areas (towns, in particular).

But I think for a lot of players, barriers like that, which only let you get to a new area when you've say, reached a certain level, are completely arbitrary. The nice thing about Skyrim is that you can play it more free-form, w/o having to follow a linear progression, or even doing quests.

The game does have a bunch of problems, but I don't see how this is one of them. It's just a stylistic choice.

[youfailatlife]

The problem with Skyrim is that it's boring. You spend most of your gameplay time walking around, which I can't count as "doing something", and most of the rest of the time you're just watching NPCs talk some of the worst dialogue ever. Sure, the dungeons are kinda fun at first, but they're the same thing over and over, and fighting the dragons is also boring and the same thing over and over. Let's not even start about how it's a huge downgrade from any of the previous elder scrolls games.

The problem mentioned in this article is at the source of all the boredom though. And in the end, who cares if there's "endless content" as some morons stupidly state when it's also all the same thing over and over, and it never gets any more fun?

[rizzo-rizzo]

I think a lot of negative comments here basically expressed what I've felt while playing Skyrim, beautiful game I must admit but the devil is in the details.

As someone said, Skyrim shouldn't be excessively praised, they feel they've succeeded with the masses, the money, GOTY and don't learn from any critism.

Next thing you know, the sequel is simply recycled. hype it, then it's 11-11-11 all over again.

[dreamoner]

skyrim is all about variety.. there is no RP in it. FO3 had some, New Vegas was awe-some in that aspect but skyrim's just play play and play with only RPing feeling of dragonbornness.. you've dragon `balls` you can fus ro dah! and this was enough for my at least 50hrs of gameplay. Then the bitchy `what am I doing?` question comes to mind and me deletes Skyrim..

So might call skyrim treasure, I call it junk.. ..after 50 hours.

[Bakkies]

Shit, and I thought the problem with Skyrim was that it didn't work on the PS3 and the dragons flew backwards.

[1nsaint]

Again a article like this?? Skyrim is all about making your own choises and focus on what you want to do. Obvious you need to play a linear game that all you do is walk in one direction and shoot some things along the way. Some people are apperently to stupid to choose what quests you want to do

[ZippyZapper]

It would suck to play the broken version. I might be a good idea to pass up some of the side quest because some kinda suck.

[Moragami]

I'm 50+ hours into the PC version and haven't hit a bug yet. Also, the quest that triggered the author to quit playing was one of the best quests I've ever played. It was basically the medieval version of "The Hangover", with a great ending and a cool reward. While some of the 1000's of quests in this game are kind of generic, the majority of them are well written, and fun to carry out.

I still enjoy the game, for me it's the perfect balance of RPG and action game. I've never gotten into a game that made smithing and enchanting so much fun. Normally if you told me I'd be killing animals, turning their pelts into leather (and their souls into magic), smelting steel from ore, combining that with leather strips to make a suit of armor, which I can then enchant with the animal soul, I'd ask you where you got the peyote from. In Skyrim, not only can I do that, but it's actually a lot of fun too.

[Bigpappy]

The way you approach this game is going to make you an ES fan for life. You appreciate the depth and are not pklaying just to get quest completed. I have never play any game that gives me that same feel of immersion, that I get when playing this series. Two worlds trys, but has a long, long way to go before even coming close. It makes most RPG's out there seem shallow.

[samrtk]

The only thing that I am downright disappointed with in Skyrim was that the main questline is far, far too short and easy.

[despair]

didn't read the entire thing, skimmed through it, but I agree somewhat. I beat the game and pretty much every major storyline(companions, mage, thieves, dark brotherhood, I found 15 daedra quest, civil war etc.) as well as countless side quests and errands, at its peak I had about 50-60 active quests and now I have 11 of which 6 are the randomly generated/repeating ones and the other 5 extremely minor.

Thing is that even though I spent 150 hours doing all these quests and finding 300+ locations, it all did not feel like I was progressing to something or doing anything other than looking for gold, equipment and leveling up. When there were interesting storylines (especially the daedra ones) they all ended quite anticlimatically. hell even with the dark broherhood

*major spoilers*

I killed the damn emperor and nothing came of it, won a civil war and only a few faces changed.

*end spoilers*

Even the main story was underwhelmingly anti-climatic and unsatisfying. Now I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the game, because no way would I spend all that time and almost 2 months playing the damn game, it was amazing to play at times and crappy at others, exciting and tedious. But in reflection it wasn't truly a great game, it was just a massive number of quests put together with some narration and the very occasional *wow* moment.

The game had no cohesive element in it and I usually don't demand consequences and/or flashiness from a game, but it was severely lacking in both departments given the scope of the tale. To me Bethesda did the same thing they did the last two Elder Scrolls games, just in a better package and made no attempt to emphasize the story or even any kind of cinematic or gripping experience to it. It wasn't so much a game as it was just stuff to do.

That to me was the biggest disappointment with skyrim, so even though I played and enjoyed the hell out of it, there is always the feeling of something lacking, and its not hard to see what.

[Dfooster]

Trouble is people are too picky these days and walk around with rose tinted glasses on.

I have had to restart a couple of quests again due to conversation bugs not activating the quest in over 150 hours of gameplay, and that is all I have seen wrong with this game.

I'm sure I can pull up the best album ever written or the best movie ever made for more faults than that, I don't know what all the fuss is about. I thought we had left whinging on the Internet back in 2011 and all decided to grow up this year??

[lsujester]

I can understand the progress complaint. I ended up with a list of around 20 or so quests, and eventually had to look them up to see which one was actually my main storyline.

I can see why you don't feel like your progressing when the story gets lost in endless fetch quests. Great game, though... I'm like 80 hours in and I still have tons of quests lined up.